The Annual Grammy Awards - General Discussion

[hendersonrocks]

Quote

The 10 producers behind her aren't going to not get a Grammy because of something Adele said in a speech.

They also wouldn't have gotten this Grammy without Adele, so...yeah. She can say what she wants.

[27bored]

Disagree. If Adele feels that Lemonade was the best album of the year, why shouldn't she say so? Adele has thanked those people and they're all still going to get Grammys in the mail. If Adele doesn't want hers that doesn't impact anyone else on the team and I'm not entirely convinced Adele won't keep the one getting mailed to her since she broke the plastic prop in half so the and Beyoncé could share. 

The problem is it's a little disrespectful to the team of people who worked on her album, who may not get another AOTY nomination, much less a Grammy. It's one thing to be humble and gracious in winning, but there's a thin line between that and being tacky. You don't have to turn your speech into a buck-up-lil-camper pep talk for Beyonce Motherfucking Knowles, because trust me, had she won, she would NOT have done the same for you. She would've thanked her team, her daughter, her adulterous husband, and her fans, and sat the fuck down.

When you look at some of the most influential artists in modern music, it's amazing how few of the Black artists are celebrated in AOTY, SOTY and ROTY. The last time a Black woman won AOTY was Lauryn Hill 18 years ago and since then artists like Beyoncé, Rihanna, Alicia Keys. Mary J Blige and Missy Elliott have been musical trailblazers. In the past 20 years AOTY has gone to Black artists all of four times despite Black artists being key innovators in music. (And I'm not looking to downplay the impact of Ray Charles or Herbie Hancock but neither is making contemporary music and they account for half of the total) Aside from the women I've mentioned Kayne, Kendrick Lamar, Usher, Gnarls Barkley, Ne-Yo, Black Eyed Peas (I hate them but I can't pretend Will.i.am hasn't had a huge influence on music) Lil Wayne, Frank Ocean, The Weeknd, Drake and Pharrell Williams have all been denied AOTY despite being some of the most important contemporary artists. What would modern music sound like without Pharrell? And I'm not joking about that; think honestly about his influence as a musician and producer and try to picture modern music without him. I can't do it. I can't imagine the current scene without Beyoncé or Rihanna, or Kanye or Jay Z and the influence they've had on other artists and yet somehow their albums (and I need to specify that because Pharrell has been rewarded for producing white artists) are never good enough to take the most prestigious award of the night. That's bullshit.

I take your point, but there's some more going on here. First of all, you (the general you, not you specifically) can't just look at one trend or issue and ignore all the others. Beyonce is the most nominated woman in Grammy history. She's won more Grammys than basically any of her contemporaries. Artists like Alicia Keys and Rihanna have several trophies as well. Because Beyonce hasn't won a specific award doesn't mean there's a A Trend that needs to be addressed. Homegirl just ain't won yet! Period. I think there's a certain artistic karma artists have -- even Beyonce -- that people don't always think about, and that is, you can eclipse yourself in terms of star power. If you have one too many hits just because You're You, eventually you're going to put out a good project that's going to be underappreciated simply because people are tired of you. I think that's happened to some degree with Rihanna. Anti was actually a good album, her best yet, and it worked as a cohesive body of work. But see, Rihanna's had one too many "Work", "Where Have You Been?", "We Found Love", "This Is What You Came For", and "Bitch Better Have My Money" records to where, when she does put out a good record, the Grammy committee is like, we're gonna leave you in the audience this time.

Same with Beyonce. One too many Sasha Fierce, B-girl, step-routine, hood-chick anthems and the Grammy committee was like, yeah okay. They still gave her two Grammys last night, but they left her out of the top honors. They like her, but I think the artistic merit of Lemonade was overshadowed by Beyonce's star power. At least with Adele it feels like they were awarding her for putting out a good album not simply because she's Adele. 

Adele speaking out just highlights this clear problem. She asked in the press room after "What does Beyoncé have to do to win one of these awards?" and it looks more and more like the answer is be white. I've been reading stuff this morning suggesting that 25 won because it was the bigger commercial success. And sure, that could have influenced voters. But two years ago when Beck won over Beyoncé's self-titled, then the excuse was the Grammys were about artistic merit and not commercial success. It's funny how whatever the reason is, Beyoncé loses.

I think the commercial success part has something to do with it. That might explain why Sturgill didn't win as well. He was up against four platinum-selling albums. I think it's possible that not everyone shared the same reaction to Lemonade that pop fans did. I'm assuming Grammy voters are experienced music fans, so they're probably a little bit harder to please than most of us. In addition, it's possible that they're not impressed with the fact that Beyonce devoted an album to her husband's infidelity, reclusive nature aside. It might have been a little too on-the-nose for some people -- a little too Explainypants -- and that can cause people to not enjoy it. The fact that Beyonce doesn't indulge the public in her personal life made it a stark contrast from her other efforts, but some people might not have cared much either way.

Thematically, I think it's possible that Beyonce using her suffering through an unfaithful marriage to dovetail into a sociopolitical commentary about the treatment of African-Americans would come off massively indulgent. I think she probably tried to pull off the same trick Lauryn Hill did with The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill, which was very personal but also worked as a commentary. But Lauryn's album was insightful and thought-provoking. I don't know that Beyonce answered any questions or provided any broader insights about herself, her relationship, or society. Intermittently, but not really.

[rcc]

Good post. Beyonce used her cheating husband to make a statement but it was watered down IMO.

[MerBearHou]

My new favorite phrase:  a little too Explainypants!

Love it, 27Bored!

[ProudMary]

Interesting article on how and why Adele won over Beyonce.

http://www.vox.com/2017/2/13/14595352/adele-beat-beyonce-grammys-why

[27bored]

Quote

 

NM

Edited February 14, 2017 by 27bored

[thejuicer]

If we are talking merit based on vocals then Taylor Swift should not have one single Grammy.

[NutMeg]

On 2/13/2017 at 9:19 AM, ebk57 said:

 

And, like @mojoween, I'm mostly here for the concert.  It amuses me that most of my music "knowledge" comes from SNL.  And, in the old days, David Letterman.

don't laugh, buy the Grammies made me discover Muse and Imagine Dragons, which I've followed since, as well as get to know those other people that people around me were talking about. Used to be that I discovered music on edgy radio stations, but the only ones I know now are either top 50 or way, way too edgy. So Spotify it is for me, with annual discoveries, as the case may be, from the Grammy awards.

[vibeology]

15 hours ago, 27bored said:

I take your point, but there's some more going on here. First of all, you (the general you, not you specifically) can't just look at one trend or issue and ignore all the others. Beyonce is the most nominated woman in Grammy history. She's won more Grammys than basically any of her contemporaries. Artists like Alicia Keys and Rihanna have several trophies as well. Because Beyonce hasn't won a specific award doesn't mean there's a A Trend that needs to be addressed. Homegirl just ain't won yet! Period. I think there's a certain artistic karma artists have -- even Beyonce -- that people don't always think about, and that is, you can eclipse yourself in terms of star power. If you have one too many hits just because You're You, eventually you're going to put out a good project that's going to be underappreciated simply because people are tired of you. I think that's happened to some degree with Rihanna. Anti was actually a good album, her best yet, and it worked as a cohesive body of work. But see, Rihanna's had one too many "Work", "Where Have You Been?", "We Found Love", "This Is What You Came For", and "Bitch Better Have My Money" records to where, when she does put out a good record, the Grammy committee is like, we're gonna leave you in the audience this time.

Same with Beyonce. One too many Sasha Fierce, B-girl, step-routine, hood-chick anthems and the Grammy committee was like, yeah okay. They still gave her two Grammys last night, but they left her out of the top honors. They like her, but I think the artistic merit of Lemonade was overshadowed by Beyonce's star power. At least with Adele it feels like they were awarding her for putting out a good album not simply because she's Adele. 

The problem with this is you can't take a systemic issue and go case by case. When you do that you can always come up with a reason why an individual Black Artist failed to win an award. Maybe you're right and the issue right now is voters have Beyoncé fatigue (though the Recording Academy wasn't fatigued enough not to invite Beyoncé, promote the shit out of her performance for weeks online and in commercials and have her perform at 9:00 to try to keep eyeballs away from The Walking Dead.) Maybe they just really love Adele. And you can go year by year and artist by artist and come up with a plausible reason for how the vote went down, but at some point you've got to step back and wonder why those reasons almost always favour white artists. A system doesn't have to be intentionally racist for that to be its impact. If the voting body is largely white and male (the way we all found out the Oscar body was and the way I imagine the Recording Academy is) they'll default to liking things more like themselves, things that they can relate to and genres they grew up connected with. Like I said in my last post, this isn't just Beyoncé. It's nearly every Black Artist who is shaping and changing music. Beyoncé is just highlighting the problem because Lemonade was so well received by critics and placed on so many Best of 2016 lists.

[proserpina65]

On ‎02‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 8:29 PM, DearEvette said:

So this Carrie Underwood/ Keith Urban song doesn't sound very country.  it sounds very 80s rom-com soundtrack pop.

It didn't, but I kind of liked it.  Would've liked it more without Carrie, though.

I thought Adele deserved to win AOY.  While I occasionally enjoy some of Beyoncé's songs, I thought Lemonade was a piece of crap.

Edited February 14, 2017 by proserpina65

[gator12]

Its not like Adele 25 wasn't well receive either, many people though/and proclaim she had won the (predicted that she would sweep) Grammy as soon as Hello and that album drop, that was months before Beyonce's Lemonade drop.

No one was going to beat Adele since she drop that single.

[Misslindsey]

Lemonade worked better for me visually than just listening to the album, but I am a very casual Beyonce fan. For me, I thought that it was a toss up between Beyonce and Adele for the top honors. I do not see either as more or less deserving than the other. 

[27bored]

Quote

The problem with this is you can't take a systemic issue and go case by case. When you do that you can always come up with a reason why an individual Black Artist failed to win an award. Maybe you're right and the issue right now is voters have Beyoncé fatigue (though the Recording Academy wasn't fatigued enough not to invite Beyoncé, promote the shit out of her performance for weeks online and in commercials and have her perform at 9:00 to try to keep eyeballs away from

The Walking Dead.) Maybe they just really love Adele. And you can go year by year and artist by artist and come up with a plausible reason for how the vote went down, but at some point you've got to step back and wonder why those reasons almost always favour white artists. A system doesn't have to be intentionally racist for that to be its impact. If the voting body is largely white and male (the way we all found out the Oscar body was and the way I imagine the Recording Academy is) they'll default to liking things more like themselves, things that they can relate to and genres they grew up connected with. Like I said in my last post, this isn't just Beyoncé. It's nearly every Black Artist who is shaping and changing music. Beyoncé is just highlighting the problem because Lemonade was so well received by critics and placed on so many Best of 2016 lists.

I understand. I guess I have with that way of thinking is, really, it could be applied to any group. How many Asian artists have won AOTY? Hispanic? Middle Eastern? Gay? I'd have an issue if I felt the Grammys were truly slighting Black artists, but I think there are other tangible reasons why they might come up short. But, I think there are two solutions to this (one of which a lot of people aren't going to like):

1. Beyonce is going to have to start singing again. Let's be clear: Beyonce is a singer, first and foremost. She comes from a time and a tradition where you kinda had to know how to sing, and a lot of people forget that because we're in the age of shrinking violets like Katy Perry, Rihanna, and Lady Gaga -- singers who have just enough of a voice to sell whatever bit of product they're selling at the time. But people like Beyonce, Usher, Christina, Justin Timberlake to an extent, they grew up singing. Beyonce is a singer's singer, not just a recording artist. But she's largely stopped doing that in order to pop her ass in a one-piece and coo into the mic. That's kept her relevant with people who aren't into big-voiced singers anymore (though, looking at Adele's success, it's a wonder why we don't see more of them) and enjoy a little hip-hop cadence and swagger in their R&B, buuuut it hasn't necessarily endeared her to older audiences.

2. People need to get off Beyonce's dick, and, encourage her to class it up a little bit. The harshest criticism I could make of Beyonce is that I think she's kinda overrated. I can't knock her hustle, but this larger-than-life Queen-Bey shit has gotten old. I was hoping it got in the car with Barack and Michelle when they left and now it's in Hawaii water-skiing. That's one thing I will say about Adele and Taylor Swift. They at least try to come off, you know, down-to-Earth and regular. Beyonce hasn't given an interview in years, and while I'm sure she works behind-the-scenes, appearing like you're too good to play the game might not be received that well. And since we now the Grammy voters tend to have more "traditional" tastes, and Beyonce is already a mom with two more crumb-snatchers on the way, it might be time to put on some pants and find a new way to be sexy.

To the "class" point: compare the two main singles from 25 and Lemonade: "Hello" and "Send My Love" vs. "Formation" and "Sorry" (or did "Hold Up" come out second?). If I being honest, I liked Lemonade better than 25, but Adele's singles were better than Beyonce's. Adele's not the most exciting artist around -- while I enjoy her music and like her as a person, she can at times come off matronly and dour -- but she's not as exhausting as Beyonce. Now, to be fair, I do think Adele is going to have to come with something a little different next time or her shtick is going to get exhausting too.

Edited February 15, 2017 by 27bored

[vibeology]

12 hours ago, 27bored said:

I understand. I guess I have with that way of thinking is, really, it could be applied to any group. How many Asian artists have won AOTY? Hispanic? Middle Eastern? Gay? I'd have an issue if I felt the Grammys were truly slighting Black artists, but I think there are other tangible reasons why they might come up short.

I would be all for more diversity in general with the winners of the big three awards at the Grammys. The problem is intersectional after all. I've said before and I'll say it again that I would love to see the demographics of the voting body. Music is a very personal experience and I'm not going to say people are wrong for voting for one artist over another because I can't speak to what touches someone emotionally, but I will say if you have a largely older and white voting body and one album is about a breakup and other album is examining the Black experience in America, I can take a pretty good guess as to what the largely older and white voting body is more likely to relate to. That's why I say the issue is a systemic one. The scenario I described applies not only to this year's AOTY results but also fits last year's results too. No one is thinking "I don't like Black artists" when they're casting their vote. They're thinking "This is what appealed to me." And that's white privilege at work. No one is anti-Black or anti any other minority but they vote for things they can relate to and things that appeal to them based on who they are.

In the past five years, five albums by Black artists were talked about as very strong nominees for AOTY. No one suggested they were a lock; the fact that there was strong competition was always a part of the conversation too. But in five years, despite the fact that an album by a Black artist was considered one of top two or three contenders for AOTY, not one of those albums has won. And like I said previously, when you look at a systemic problem individually you can always come up with reasons to justify a specific condition, but isn't it strange that in five years it hasn't broken in favour of a Black artist once?

[UYI]

14 hours ago, 27bored said:

we're in the age of shrinking violets like Katy Perry, Rihanna, and Lady Gaga

I wouldn't lump Lady Gaga in there. She may love to use spectacle a lot of the time, but at the end of the day, she is a DAMN good singer, and she's had several opportunities now where she's let the main focus of her performance be her voice. 

14 hours ago, 27bored said:

 That's one thing I will say about Adele and Taylor Swift. 

I think it's safe to say that Taylor has more or less thrown that image out the window (or rather, found it being thrown out the window against her will last July). 

Edited February 15, 2017 by UYI

[truthaboutluv]

3 minutes ago, UYI said:

I think it's safe to say that Taylor has more or less thrown that image out the window (or rather, found it being thrown out the window against her will last July). 

And there are those like me who've always thought she was shrewd and incredibly calculating and never bought that down to earth, regular girl crap. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[chitowngirl]

If anyone missed seeing the show or wants to rewatch it, POP channel is airing it this evening.

[27bored]

I wouldn't lump Lady Gaga in there. She may love to use spectacle a lot of the time, but at the end of the day, she is a DAMN good singer, and she's had several opportunities now where she's let the main focus of her performance be her voice.

Eh. She's a good singer, but I don't know that her music usually works as a showcase of that. The times where I've sat back and thought, "oh, well, okay...maybe there's something there" have usually been when she's singing standards or the national anthem.

[truthaboutluv]

The 60th Grammy Awards are taking place this Sunday, for the first time in 15 years, in New York City and not LA. These are the nominees in the main categories:

Album of the Year 

DAMN. - Kendrick Lamar

4:44 - Jay z

Awaken My Love - Childish Gambino 

Melodrama - Lorde 

24K Magic - Bruno Mars 

 

Record of the Year 

Redbone - Childish Gambino

Despacito - Luis Fonsi & Daddy Yankee feat. Justin Bieber

The Story of OJ - Jay Z

Humble - Kendrick Lamar 

24K Magic - Bruno Mars 

 

Song of the Year 

Despacito - Luis Fonsi & Daddy Yankee feat. Justin Bieber 

4:44 - Jay Z

Issues - Julia Michaels 

1-800-273-8255 - Logic feat. Alessia Cara & Khalid 

That's What I Like - Bruno Mars

 

Best New Artist 

SZA

Alessia Cara 

Khalid

Julia Michaels 

Lil Uzi Vert 

Much of the talk since the nominees were announced is that for the first time ever, the Grammy voters deigned to truly show Hip Hop/Rap it's well deserved due and the genre dominated most of the major categories, whereas that honor mostly always went to pop music. Poor rock and country are all all but invisible in the major categories. As to who will win, conventional wisdom would say this is finally Kendrick's year. It just has to be right? There's no blond, safe pop star who sells millions of records in the category this year and for the first time, he was actually the artist with the highest album sales. He had the sales, critical acclaim, hit song - it just has to happen, right.

Yeah, except Grammy voters often do anything but what makes sense. Something tells me Jay Z is going to win AOTY - the voters will see it as finally rewarding a rap album, Jay Z's a legend at this point and as ridiculous as it seems, I can also see it as a "makeup" for what many still perceive was the snub of Adele winning over Beyonce last year. Never mind that I still don't think that was the travesty some made it out to be and in my opinion, the real travesty in recent years is Taylor Swift's basic 1989 winning over Kendrick's masterpiece To Pimp A Butterfly. But once again, I have a feeling the voters will screw Kendrick. f

As to the other categories, I think Despacito will win ROTY, not to sure about SOTY and New Artist is always a toss up but my personal favorite is Khalid. 

[chitowngirl]

I love the Grammys. It’s a concert with an award here and there.

[kili]

Quote

Much of the talk since the nominees were announced is that for the first time ever, the Grammy voters deigned to truly show Hip Hop/Rap it's well deserved due and the genre dominated most of the major categories, whereas that honor mostly always went to pop music. Poor rock and country are all all but invisible in the major categories.

Just to clarify,  the nominees for the major categories are not picked by Grammy voters, but by "Blue Ribbon Committees". Given that Lorde got an AOTY nomination when the album did not get nominated in the Pop category indicates that she was probably at best 6th in Grammy voting (Pop does not yet have a "Blue Ribbon Committee").  When the "Blue Ribbon Committees" first started, they often made sure that there was somebody from each of the major formats (Pop, Rock, Urban and Country) in the major categories to avoid skewing to one genre.  "Blue Ribbon Committees" are set up when voters aren't voting "correctly" (for instance, "Blue Ribbon Committees " were created for Rap categories  to address the fact that Macklemore "incorrectly" won a few Rap Grammys). The "Blue Ribbon Committees" make sure that the "correct" people are nominated and now they appear to have upped their influence to make sure the "correct" people win (if you aren't nominated, you cannot "incorrectly" win).  For now, voters still vote for the nominees in many of the non-major categories and for the final winner once nominees are announced. Not all Grammy voters can vote in all categories (for some, you expected to have some expertise).

[shipmate]

 If If there was a drinking game to take a shot every time one of the hosts of the E grammy pre show said "you guys",  I would have alcohol poisoning. You would have alcohol poisoning.  We would ALL have alcohol poisoning!

[Neurochick]

Has Ryan Seacrest gotten shorter?

Yay, glad the Grammys are in NYC, it's about time.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Neurochick

[chitowngirl]

Ha! Golf is running over on CBS! They should be showing Red Carpet.

[Luvzmutt]

4 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Ha! Golf is running over on CBS! They should be showing Red Carpet.

And because of this, I am stuck still watching E!

[AimingforYoko]

We've got drama!

[truthaboutluv]

Kendrick Lamar just always mother f...ing killing it. Every time I watch a Kendrick performance, my heart is racing at the end. Dude is just so damn powerful and talented. And of course they'll probably still screw him over again for AOTY. 

[Ohwell]

James Corden is wearing an ill-fitting suit.

Gaga thinks she is so important.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Ohwell

[truthaboutluv]

They're really not even trying to pretend this isn't just a big concert instead of an award show. Straight into another performance, instead of presenting an award? Gaga is also a little off-key here. 

[chitowngirl]

No opening number from the host?

[Bees52]

That's pretty much the way of every award show now. A performance show  with a few awards sprinkled in.

[mojoween]

So is that all the U2 that is going to be on the show?  That was a lot of buildup.

Kendrick slayed but it seemed like he didn’t know his lyrics and was reading the TelePrompTer.

The Dave Chappelle interruptions were awesome.

[Luvzmutt]

5 minutes ago, mojoween said:

So is that all the U2 that is going to be on the show?  That was a lot of buildup.

Kendrick slayed but it seemed like he didn’t know his lyrics and was reading the TelePrompTer.

The Dave Chappelle interruptions were awesome.

I was just going to post the same thing about U2. What a waste!

[Jaded]

I didn't realize the show was starting 30 min early tonight. Oops. Not sure who I missed except who's been named in the last couple posts.

[mojoween]

That’s it plus Kendrick won for best rap...something.  I don’t remember if it was album or song.

I’m super confused about Sam Smith's outfit.  The long white coat, and grey vest/pants combo, and army green shirt? Plus sneakers?

Edited January 29, 2018 by mojoween

[Annber03]

I think U2 might show up again later? I thought I heard they were performing a couple songs on the show. 

[Quof]

Did we need to know Little Big Town was singing a song written by Taylor Swift???  Of course, her songs always sound better when performed by a real singer(s). 

[Jaded]

3 minutes ago, Quof said:

Did we need to know Little Big Town was singing a song written by Taylor Swift???  Of course, her songs always sound better when performed by a real singer(s). 

Of course it seemed to be song about how a guy needs to be a "better man".  They kept repeating that line so much that I quit listening midway through.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Jaded

[truthaboutluv]

8 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I think U2 might show up again later? I thought I heard they were performing a couple songs on the show. 

Yeah that was my understanding as well. They're featured on that Kendrick song so I think since they were performing anyway, they agreed to do their part. 

 

12 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I’m super confused about Sam Smith's outfit.  The long white coat, and grey vest/pants combo, and army green shirt? Plus sneakers?

It looked like he was wearing pajamas with a random white coat over it. 

[Annber03]

Just now, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah that was my understanding as well. They're featured on that Kendrick song so I think since they were performing anyway, they agreed to do their part. 

Exactly :).

I did not know that "Better Man" song was written by Taylor Swift, but after hearing it, yeah, it definitely fits her style and type of sound. 

[mtlchick]

Somewhat shallow moment: I am liking Jon Baptiste's hair. 

[Bees52]

Ahh... finally... music i know the words to... RIP to two legends.

[Annber03]

Really nice little tribute to Fats and Chuck. Well done. 

I haven't really heard much of Sheeran's music to comment on it one way or another, but I wish Kesha's "Praying" had won. I like that song. 

[mtlchick]

Alessia Cara's comment about "popularity contests and ratings" in her speech sort of rang true in that last category.  I don't mind Ed Sheeran but my GOD, I am so over that song.  

[Ohwell]

Never got all the hype about Despacito.

[mojoween]

One of the dancers during “Despacito” looks like Koine from last season’s “So You Think You Can Dance”. I really hope it is her.  I loved her and hope good things come her way.

[mtlchick]

(blinks) well DAMN real life Toofer on 30 Rock.  I can see why you're the young version of Lando Calrissan.  WOW!

[lavenderblue]

14 minutes ago, mojoween said:

One of the dancers during “Despacito” looks like Koine from last season’s “So You Think You Can Dance”. I really hope it is her.  I loved her and hope good things come her way.

It was her! She posted about it in her Instagram Stories. Happy with the high-profile opportunities she's getting since SYTYCD.

[truthaboutluv]

Given the current social climate, I knew P!nk would sing Wild Hearts Can't Be Broken. 

[mtlchick]

Her CHEST was turning red during that performance.  

 

Meanwhile Lorde looks PISSED at the end.