S05.E03: Four Walls And A Roof

[ghoulina]

I wonder if:

They will show the Beth scenes first...ending with Carol bringing her body, or...

 

Okay, this scenario actually makes sense to me. It would explain his forlorn face. 

 

 

 

Morales was the CDB guy with the family. Martinez was the Governor's henchman, last seen in a walker pit.

 

Oh my gosh, sorry guys! This is the second time I've mixed those names up. And, sorry, Morales! You don't deserve to confused with the Guv's scummy sidekick. 

 

 

 

Abraham agreeing to wait because Tara, Glenn, and Maggie agreed to go with him if they did made zero sense...because Glenn, Maggie, and Tara are not Rick, Daryl, Carol, or Michonne.

 

I can see wanting Glenn and Maggie. They may be no Richonne Dixon, but they're pretty formidable. Glenn is fast and very creative when it comes to strategy. Maggie is pretty tough and resilient. But Tara? Her big gesture just made me laugh. I'd promise to do anything Rick wanted if he would keep her. And I don't hate Tara. But she's always stumbling and twisting an ankle. 

 

 

 

 

The previews for next week already have me wanting to skip it.  I don't care about Beth and never will.  I'm now actively resentful that this will be taking time from characters I do care about and actors who can actually act.

 

I don't dislike Beth, but she's not the most compelling character. However, I am kind of curious to see what this place that has her is all about. It's one thing to have a hospital set up to help people, but if they're actively taking people??? It could be something really creepy. 

 

 

Gabriel's story about locking his congregation out might have been at least marginally compelling had we not seen the Termites pop the lock and open the door in about 5 seconds.  Apparently his parishioners were as weak and inept as he was.

 

I thought the same thing, but when my hunch that Rick and co. were only pretending to leave was proved right, I figured they didn't really lock the place up the way they could have. 

 

 

 

If anything I wonder how much he even wanted someone like Rick with a hard head.

 

I agree. I have to wonder if Abe wasn't glad to break from the main group. Yes, more help would be nice. But it's clear that he is an alpha male and doesn't take too well to having someone else be in charge. He and Rick already clashed once. Can you imagine how many times they would butt heads on the way to DC? 

 

 

 

When Gareth is naming off all the people he knows are in the church, the camera is showing each person as he says their name. And it even happens to Judith! Her expression is so funny because it looks like she's thinking, "Don't say my name, don't say my name. Oh crap, he said my name!"

 

When he said that, I screamed at the TV - "Don't you say her name!" Haha, I am fiercely protective of LAK. But damn, Gareth sure is a stickler for details. He remembered every single one of their names, and he must have gotten Judith's name from Martin. 

 

 

 

As soon as we saw Gareth pop the church door open I wondered how an entire congregation couldn't get in. I wish they had a more compelling story for Father Gabriel. If he was locked in all that time where did he get water? Where did he go to the bathroom? It just does't compute for me.

 

He said he eventually came out to forage for food and whatnot. The day that Rick and crew met him, he said he had not previously gone any further than the stream. He told Rick he had hit up a few nearby places for food, but the food bank he had shied away from, since it was overrun. 

 

 

 

Glenn, Maggie, Tara and Tyreese's WTF faces at the brutality of the deaths of the Terminites at the hands of Rick and the others did not go unnoticed by me. Interesting.

 

I have seen so many people touch on this and I feel like a heel, because I didn't notice. At all. I need to rewatch that scene tonight. Tyrese, it wouldn't surprise me - he'd bug out if you swatted a fly. But Glenn and Maggie? Really? After all the shit they've seen on this show??? These people were freaking cannibals. They were luring innocent people - old people, women, children - to their little "safe haven" and EATING THEM. They had Glenn at the trough. He watched them whack four dudes on the head and slit their throats open, like they were on an assembly line. Not a care in the world. Then they ate Bob. In front of him. They were the epitome of depraved. 

 

Yes, I guess dead is dead, and a bullet to the head would have sufficed. But Rick promised to kill Gareth with the red machete. Perhaps Rick is part Lannister. I loved that he kept his word. And, unfortunately (or fortunately....depends on your perspective) you can't really kill someone cleanly with a machete. I don't think Rick, Michonne, etc. are going to devolve into monsters now because they were a bit brutal in taking out the creeps who were two seconds away from killing other members of their group, including an infant. And, since I am blurry on the scene, someone remind me if Abraham took part in the carnage as well? Because I know he was the other one who came to the front with Rick, and had his gun on a dude. If Abraham was bashing their heads in as well, why would the "brutality" be a big factor in Glenn and Maggie deciding which group to go in? Did Glenn not see the gleeful way Abe was killing walkers at the end of season 4?

 

If Glenn and Maggie really are that offended, they can take a seat. We've seen them use brutality on walkers. Is there really that big of a difference here? The Termites were people-eaters too. Only they were people-eaters that CHOSE to do so. They actually deserved worse than they got, IMO.

Edited October 27, 2014 by ghoulina

[Joan van Snark]

You know I really do look forward to this show and care for several of the characters, but in a lot of ways, it really kind of sucks.  The writing and the character motivations just do not make sense so much of the time.  Why in the world would Glenn and Maggie suddenly decide out of nowhere to leave their 'family'--the people they have been to hell and back with to follow Abraham?  Didn't we just hear a big speech about how they'll never break apart again on the last episode or the one before?  And Rick and the others just say sure without even bringing up a single objection?  Not to even mention the fact that Maggie seems to have zero interest in the fact that her sister may still be alive out there somewhere.  

 

Why did the Termites dump Bob in front of the church?   To send a message to Rick's group?  Wouldn't it have been much easier to pick them off if Rick's group didn't even know they were out there?  How did Gareth know that the grey haired lady killed his mom?  None of the Termites even saw Carol other than Mary.  

[MichaelaRae]

I didn't have the impression that Glenn and Maggie left with Abraham because they were disturbed by Rick and crew's level of violence in killing the Termites. They had told Abraham they'd go with him BEFORE that happened, before there was even a plan for dealing with the Termites. I think they were simply keeping their word, something that seems very much in keeping with Glenn and his view of "who we still are." Abraham agreed to stay 12 more hours if at the end of that time, Glenn, Maggie and Tara would leave with him - whether Daryl and Carol showed back up or not. Abraham and his crew stayed, and additionally helped with the Termite extermination plan. Glenn, Maggie and Tara kept up their end of the deal. (Do I think they were disturbed by the level of violence when Gareth and team were killed? Yes. Hell, so was I. It was understandable but very Lord of the Flies and freaked me out a bit.) They gave their word, they kept it.

 

Now, from a writing perspective, the issue for me - and others have noted this as well - is that if Abraham wanted to "extract" Eugene immediately because the Termites were a present threat, and that is specifically why he wanted to leave right now and why G, M & T negotiated for him to stay a little longer - then once the Termites were dead, why did he HAVE to then leave still? Did he think more were coming? Possibly, but there was no sense of urgency when they left in the morning on the bus. So why not stay a little longer?

[kj4ever]

I'm so glad the termites are dead.  I was terrifiied they were going to go the guv'nuh route and try and redeem them a bit before they died.  Kudos show!

 

That school bus headed to DC can just go over a cliff if you ask me.  I am just over Glen and done with Maggie.  Hate The Walking Comics.  Just a day ago Glen is saying we do what Rick says, we do not split apart, then it's all "This is not your decision to make Rick."  Screw you and your high horse Glen.  You are leaving with a bufoon, a girl who wears short shorts and hoop earing to the ZA, and a dude who was just as brutal as the others while you had your judge-ie faces going.  Oh who cares what the leader that got your ass out of Woodbury thinks and that dude that fought for you when his own flesh and blood was on the other side is missing.  Oh and your sister-in-law and a woman you have been with since the beginning are also missing.  Cold. Freaking. Blooded. are Glen and Maggie.  They can't die fast enough for me.

 

This episode was weird in I had a hard time making out things that were going on and people seemed more mush-mouthed than normal.  Thank you to the one above who said what Rick and Tyreese said at the grave.  I thought that's what they said but it still makes no sense to me.  Tyreese:  "It killed me".  Huh?  You are still the big ass baby whining about shit that you always were.

[SHOgirl]

Regarding the disbelief that Gabriel's flock could not get in the church reminds me of what my husband (who is in access control for homes) frequently says about home safety. The most expensive lock and sophisticated security system is ultimately only going to keep out the honest. A simple lock and no security system will do the same. Perhaps the flock were not the kind of people so early in the ZA to be breaking down doors or defacing windows. Which is probably why they didn't survive.

[Constantinople]

So the Termites know exactly how many people are in the church, and their names (except for Gabriel), and they know who left the church, presumably to attack the Termites back at the school, but it never occurs to the Termites that Rick & Co. doubled back to trap them?
 

"This is the Lord's house."
 
Poor Father Gabriel. Crushing what had to be done inside your church. But they deserved it, so I don't feel all that bad about it.

The ZA is an Old Testament kind of place.  Perhaps Father Gabriel should reflect on that. 
 

I agree. Glenn and Maggie have been strong as a team and as individuals. They have both performed selfless acts for others. And, please, lets not ignore that being in a marriage does alter your relationships with others. Your spouse is your foremost concern. If he/she isn't "first" in your life, the relationship doesn't stand much of a chance.

There's a big difference between putting your spouse first and never acknowledging your sister's existence, particularly when, if she's still alive, she's your only living blood relative.

[india wilkes]

I don't get some of the sanctimonious crap that goes on with some characters on this show.

 

I exclaimed "Give me a break!" when the pastor said "this is God's house"

 

This coming from the same man who left people outside the church to fend for themselves? He can't even defend himself. 

 

what did he want to happen? everyone to die? ugh

[ghoulina]

I didn't have the impression that Glenn and Maggie left with Abraham because they were disturbed by Rick and crew's level of violence in killing the Termites. They had told Abraham they'd go with him BEFORE that happened, before there was even a plan for dealing with the Termites. I think they were simply keeping their word, something that seems very much in keeping with Glenn and his view of "who we still are." Abraham agreed to stay 12 more hours if at the end of that time, Glenn, Maggie and Tara would leave with him - whether Daryl and Carol showed back up or not. Abraham and his crew stayed, and additionally helped with the Termite extermination plan. Glenn, Maggie and Tara kept up their end of the deal. (Do I think they were disturbed by the level of violence when Gareth and team were killed? Yes. Hell, so was I. It was understandable but very Lord of the Flies and freaked me out a bit.) They gave their word, they kept it.

 

Yea, that's how I saw it. I didn't see it as Glenn and Maggie leaving their family, because they felt it was no longer the right fit for them. I thought they left FOR their family. Abraham was ready to leave right then and there, in the midst of a crisis. His part in taking out the Termites was a big deal. When Tara offered to go with, if they would stay and help, that wasn't really a tempting offer. So he asked for Glenn and Maggie as well. I felt like they agreed because they really wanted to prevent things escalating between Rick and Abe....and also to try and help their friends survive this deal with the Cannibals. I took it as them kind of sacrificing themselves for the good of the group. 

[Oinky Boinky]

 

Michonne has her katana and all is right with the world. I think she's accepted that she can't become June Cleaver in this world and that she needs her katana because it's part of who she is.

Well if she can't be Michonne Katana - I would think June 'Cleaver' is a pretty good alternative- doncha think?

[fliptopbox]

Glenn and Maggie are boring now. I enjoyed Glenn a lot more before it became all about them as a couple. At this point they are only out for each other, and could give a shit about the group as a whole. Either group, I think. There was someone a few pages back that mentioned the whole "relationship versus friends, family, etc" and I really see that here, now that they are back together they really don't give a shit about anyone else. Maggie hasn't even asked where her sister is. Even for the ZA, that's kind of weird that she wouldn't even mention it. Even if the answer was "oh we think she never made out of the prison.." at first. I am also a bit surprised Daryl hasn't said anything to Maggie about it, figuring she might want to know. It's just strange, the entire scenario.

Also, I think it will be cool to see what happened to Beth, because it might be interesting to see what others are doing during the ZA. Especially from a medical or science-y standpoint....besides that guy from the CDC in season 1. Like, are these 'doctors' trying to repopulate? Are they doing creepy zombie/human experiments? I want to know.

[ghoulina]

Maggie hasn't even asked where her sister is. Even for the ZA, that's kind of weird that she wouldn't even mention it. Even if the answer was "oh we think she never made out of the prison.." at first. I am also a bit surprised Daryl hasn't said anything to Maggie about it, figuring she might want to know. It's just strange, the entire scenario.

 

In the opener Maggie and Daryl did discuss Beth - while they were in the train car making their weapons. Daryl told her that Beth was for sure alive the last time he saw her.

[fliptopbox]

In the opener Maggie and Daryl did discuss Beth - while they were in the train car making their weapons. Daryl told her that Beth was for sure alive the last time he saw her.

Then that just makes it more strange to me. Knowing your sister is out there somewhere....and was kidnapped by people driving a hearse? Yet she hasn't said a word since. And she's perfectly willing to drive off with Abe and Eugene having no clue what happened. Just, weird. But I guess....GLENN!!!!!!!

Edited October 27, 2014 by fliptopbox

[nodorothyparker]

Sasha means a great deal to me as a character on this show. I think she adds to the group in ways I can't quite fully explain. I know she's never going to be a main character, I know she will be lucky to get through each episode, but I'm glad she, and Sonequa Martin-Green, got that chance to shine.

 

I've always liked her too and now have her on my short list of characters I really love and would be profoundly disappointed if or when she dies.  I can't fully articulate what it is about her either but it's something.  Maybe because she came onto the show as tough without being over the top badass and she's great at seeing through crap and cutting to the chase.  Whatever it is, she impressed the hell out of me this episode. 

 

Abraham is remarkably underwritten as a character. (All I see is orange hair and a tank top.) His alpha male persona didn't add anything to the group dynamic. His devotion to Eugene boggles the mind. Not sure that I would follow him so easily. For all of his bravado, he, too, walked into the Terminus trap. I don't see any leadership skills in Abraham; just blind devotion to Eugene.

 

Abraham as a character just perplexes the hell out of me.  I know he's supposed to be this epic badass out of the comics, but I don't read the comics and all I can see is how he's not translating well at all onto the show and thus sinks the entire trio of comic stupidity.  At this point I can't tell if he's really such a moron that he truly believes Dr. Mullet's half-baked story, if it's something he's desperately latched onto as a reason to keep going despite it being more full of holes than Swiss cheese, or if he's part of a long con to lure people to D.C. for some unknown reasons.  I also can't tell if the alpha male thing is real or it's a complete put on of catch phrases and bravado to keep people from asking questions.  He's also reading more like somebody who liked to shop at military surplus and read a lot of G.I. Joe than actual military.  He's that poorly written that I honestly have no idea about any of it.  And because he's so poorly written in a story that's so ridiculously cartoony, I can't bring myself to care and just want the lot of them to drive that bus off my TV and over a cliff.

[Ellaria]

I didn't have the impression that Glenn and Maggie left with Abraham because they were disturbed by Rick and crew's level of violence in killing the Termites. They had told Abraham they'd go with him BEFORE that happened, before there was even a plan for dealing with the Termites. I think they were simply keeping their word, something that seems very much in keeping with Glenn and his view of "who we still are." Abraham agreed to stay 12 more hours if at the end of that time, Glenn, Maggie and Tara would leave with him - whether Daryl and Carol showed back up or not. Abraham and his crew stayed, and additionally helped with the Termite extermination plan. Glenn, Maggie and Tara kept up their end of the deal. (Do I think they were disturbed by the level of violence when Gareth and team were killed? Yes. Hell, so was I. It was understandable but very Lord of the Flies and freaked me out a bit.) They gave their word, they kept it.

 

Now, from a writing perspective, the issue for me - and others have noted this as well - is that if Abraham wanted to "extract" Eugene immediately because the Termites were a present threat, and that is specifically why he wanted to leave right now and why G, M & T negotiated for him to stay a little longer - then once the Termites were dead, why did he HAVE to then leave still? Did he think more were coming? Possibly, but there was no sense of urgency when they left in the morning on the bus. So why not stay a little longer?

 

Agree - glad that someone else noted this. Glenn and Maggie agreed to go before the massacre in the the church. I'm not sure why they believe that tailing around after Abraham is such a great idea. There are no guarantees in that world.

 

With that in mind, I wish we had seen more hesitation from Glenn to follow Abraham. This is, in part, the fault of the writers because they have not established that Eugene (and Abraham's devotion to him) is in any way credible. Maybe they had an off-screen discussion when they were hanging out in the box car. Maybe in a ZA you have to believe in something and Eugene's supposed cure is what resonates with Abraham, Maggie and Glenn. I wish the viewers could see what they see. Maybe if Abraham was written with a little more of John Locke in him...

[tv echo]

When Abraham was being an asshole (we have to go to Washington, D.C., now! in the middle of the night!), I just wanted Rick to take him down.  But the new ruthless Rick even gave in and let Abraham take the bus.

 

I still can't believe everyone in our gang is still just blindly accepting that Eugene can solve everything just as long as he gets to D.C.  The trio of Abraham, Eugene and Rosita still annoy.  But we're probably stuck with at least two of them until the gang reaches D.C.

[Portia]

And Judith, bless her little head. Now there is a liability. I wonder if they will ever show her crying at an inopportune moment and calamity befalls the group.

I assume she's a naturally quiet baby, possibly a thumb-sucker. She wouldn't have surivived this long if that weren't the case. Natural selection.

[Boofish]

How poetic they rode away in a short bus (disclaimer - not intended to offend actual people with special needs; only fictional characters who don't have special needs but behave in such a manner)

I love how women get to be heroes on this show. Sasha taking care of the business her brother left while he backed up like he was Beyonce on an elevator. Michonne heading off into the dark while Father Urkel ran back in the church to more than likely to lock the door

That had to be the most justifiable homicide ever on this show. The only thing that would have made it sweeter is that if Rick knew that slacked jawed yokel had threatened Cutie Judy! Can't believe the looks of silent judgment from "those who shall not be named." Can't believe they would leave without knowing Daryl, Carol and Beth were alive/dead/safe. "HE" knocked out Abraham before so what makes him think Rick couldn't and that everyone in that church except the truly useless would have his back

The Short Bus Crew can handle walkers but there is no strategic thinking among them and they cannot handle themselves against other groups. Until the Grixons got to Terminus their plan was to stand in that train car with stupid looks on their face. They had no plan and "HE" never does. "HE" just does what Rick says

Edited October 27, 2014 by Boofish

[diebartdie]

I'm surprised so many people saw Glen, Maggie, Eugene and Rosita's reactions to the massacre so negatively. While it is true everyone in that church (with a couple exceptions) has done terrible things to survive, that doesnt mean they wouldnt still have human reactions and be disgusted, shocked, mortified by a brutal massacre happening right in front of their faces. Look, we all agree the Termites had to die and if I was in Rick's group and he said to me "diebartdie, pick up the AK-47, we're gonna go kill them thar Termites to death now." I would totally pick up the AK-47 and go with him and help kill the Termites to death. If he said that and then we snuck back around, trapped the Termites in the Church, allowed them to threaten and get WAY TOO CLOSE to our most fragile, precious team members, and then Rick, Michonne and Abraham just slaughtered the fuck out of the Termites, I would be pretty freaked out too, EVEN THOUGH KILLING THE TERMITES WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. That shit was so far over the top, I was more grossed out by that scene that either Bob's leg or the trough scene. The reactions Glenn, Maggie and the others had made sense and did not in any way read as "judgemental" to me. Killing bad guys is one thing. Doing what Rick did was really just uncalled for. As another poster upthread said, (paraphrasing) the only reason to do it like that was to send a message but there was no one left to hear that message.

[wmdekooning]

...Which brings me to another great moment - Rick and the red-handled machete! BAMF. Rick is just getting more and more awesome. He has truly learned how to seal the deal.

Someone a few weeks back said that when Rick spearheaded the escape from Terminus, slaughtering as many of them as managable that the ghost of Shane needed to appear in the top corner of the screen nodding his approval.  Let's have that every time Rick does some sort of cold badassery.

Michonne getting her Katana was great, I watched the scene 3 times, esp. to listen to how composer Bear McCreary scored the scene.  I had to message him to ask how he managed to not score a fanfare, like this one http://youtu.be/SYGu8ap1FvI?t=1m21s.

Lawrence Gilliard, Jr. knocked it all over and out of the park and brought the emotion through the entire episode. Ganna miss him.

[GaiusB]

I do not like that split. It would make sense for Glenn and Maggie to choose a hope over a morbid nihilism, which is all Rick can offer. But It would make sense only  if Maggie did not have a missing sister. What is even worse, all underdeveloped characters are on the group, which will probably not get nearly as much screentime as the Rick group. Rick group on another hand have all unsufferable "badass" characters i find boring and want them dead. Carl first, than Michonne - a character without any characteristic expect of her katana. Those characters might be cool in the comics if you are teenager boy, but for adult drama they plainly suck even amongs many other weak characters.

 

Under these circumstances i am looking forward to the Beth story. There is atleast hope it will be something different then mindless hacking and slashing zombies and cartoon villians again and again. An actual story, that would be a novelty. I am also curious to see Keisha Castle-Hughes before her GoT role, although no doubt she will be wasted here. As would be Lennie James, so i hope it is not Morgan who is with Daryl. Better to give a chance to struggling actors then to waste established talented actors on this show.

[marceline]

I don't get some of the sanctimonious crap that goes on with some characters on this show.

 

I exclaimed "Give me a break!" when the pastor said "this is God's house"

 

Same here. When he said that my response was, "Well then God better call Merry Maids because his house is a hot mess."

 

For all the talk of characters trying to hold on to their humanity, I get tired of the idea that the only way to be human is to be weak and not fight back. To me the essence of holding on to humanity was the way everyone treated Bob as he died. He was made comfortable and treated like family. He got to make peace and say goodbye to the people he loved and who loved him. Then after he was gone, they treated his body with as much kindness and humanity as one could. In spite of everything, Bob had what is probably the best kind of death anyone could hope for in the ZA. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by marceline

[Primetimer]

Terminus detritus is dealt with, Bob gets a big laugh, and a church sees some pretty major carnage.

Read the story

[SimoneS]

I cannot get this ridiculous "Eugene has the cure so we are going to D.C." road trip out of my mind. I don't remember Abraham mentioning what he plans to do when he gets there. Did I miss it? I mean, how is Eugene going to miraculously produce this cure? Are they planing to go to the Naval Research Lab or NIH in Bethesda? Who does Abraham think is still alive and functioning in a densely populated D.C. metro region? Also, Rick, Glenn, and Daryl are not thinking straight. If the CDC could not come up with a vaccine or cure, what are the odds that Eugene can without the best minds, research materials, equipment at his disposal?

 

The only answer that I can come up with is that subconsciously everyone (other than Abraham) all know that Eugene is full of shit, but they are desperately grasping for any motivation to keep going. Abraham is going to lose it and beat Eugene to death when he finds out that he played him for a fool.

[Boofish]

 

Abraham agreeing to wait because Tara, Glenn, and Maggie agreed to go with him if they did made zero sense...because Glenn, Maggie, and Tara are not Rick, Daryl, Carol, or Michonne.

He should have said "I will give you Tara and Rosita for Carl"

 

Rick and company took a page from the Kim Possible play book and set a "trap trap" A "trap trap" is a trap so obvious you don't think it's a trap but it's a trap. The Edible Arrangements fell into a perfect trap trap

[Nashville]

I don't think Rick buys Eugene's line of BS at all.

I do think, however, Rick sees the necessity for the group to have a clear motivational goal to prevent despair and maintain cohesion - at least, until they can find a place which offers some semblance of permanent security.

So - until they do find such a place, Rick will use whatever is handy to keep everybody moving in the same direction.

[mightysparrow]

Overall I thought this was a good episode. I didn't have a strong emotional connection to it, as I would have wanted to have, possibly because they crammed so much story into one episode (this could have been a half-season or story), and perhaps a directing issue, but I liked it.

 

What I appreciated the most was Sasha's characterization. I thought they treated her perfectly. Her emotions (grief, disbelief, rage, acceptance) were all understated yet still easy to see. Her scene with Tyreese was important for both characters, and treated both respectfully. I'd go as far as to say other than "The Grove," it was Tyreese's best material so far. I think Sasha has likely always been pragmatic and Tyreese has been ruled more by his big heart, and they're both adjusting - Sasha let herself fall for a guy, let herself trust, while Tyreese is trying to control his emotions and do what has to be done. I was happy that the show let Sasha kill that bastard without making her into some type of bad person or acting like she was betraying Bob or her brother. Sasha has her own voice, she isn't just someone's girlfriend or sister. I'm glad we got to see that here. I'm also glad we got that goodbye with Bob, and the final scene where she let Tyreese kill him for her. I'm glad the show didn't pander to the fandom mindset that only 2-3 characters are important. 

 

Sasha means a great deal to me as a character on this show. I think she adds to the group in ways I can't quite fully explain. I know she's never going to be a main character, I know she will be lucky to get through each episode, but I'm glad she, and Sonequa Martin-Green, got that chance to shine.

 

I also like how simple the Tyreese/Sasha relationship is. There's no forced conflict, no forced merriment - they're two very different, yet similar people, siblings who love each other but aren't defined by that. 

 

I was underwhelmed by the Terminus group in this episode, as minus some well-acted monologues they were mostly smug idiots, and the brutality scene didn't quite work because of the lighting and because it's difficult for us to be shocked even as the show wanted us to be shocked. With that said, the key scenes ("tainted meat" and Rick's slaughterhouse) still worked, and I'm glad they didn't drag this out.

 

Some part of me was like, "Bob takes a long time to die," but I'm glad they gave him a decent showcase for his final episode, and let him go with dignity. I'm not a big fan of the whole "happy death" TV scene, it just seems cliche, but Lawrence Gilliard Jr. did a great job. Kudos to the show for treating his relationship with Sasha as something good and positive while still allowing both characters to keep their dignity and not just be about each other. Sasha wants to believe in good things, but she's never going to be happy-sappy, the way he was in his last few episodes. She's balanced, and he kept her balanced, which is one of the reasons she (and I) will miss him. We never really got to see that much of Bob with the group in a positive way, so the group goodbye scene and the scene with Rick didn't mean as much to me, but it was fine. Bob was an interesting character. Even if the writing was sometimes uneven and clumsy, Gilliard always did his best. Bob brought a unique voice to the group. He reminded me more of the Darabant period, which isn't a bad thing. I'll miss him.

 

I like the idea of what the show is exploring with Tyreese, and that they aren't just repeating Rick's struggle with "how far is too far," but the details are what make the story sloppy. 

 

I didn't have a problem with Glenn and Maggie being disturbed by the brutality. I keep seeing people say Maggie and Glenn wouldn't leave their "family," but honestly they were never really "family" to Glenn and Maggie. Maggie was in a bubble with her father and sister, and Glenn was an errand boy for the group. He didn't really find a family until he met the Greenes. I wish we got more POV on this, but I prefer them quietly leaving to endless debates over morality and losing yourself and so on. I just want more POV, especially for Maggie. I feel like I understand Maggie, but that's just me. I don't think other fans are as willing to keep cutting her slack for the odd writing choice of not mentioning Beth. 

 

I wanted more Michonne, as always, but at least they gave her that powerful scene with the katana, which was both amazing and heartbreaking, as she is, in a way, as chained to it as those "pets" were chained to her, and she can't move on without it. The scene with Gabriel was also good. I was worried they might try to hint at a romance between them; thankfully they didn't.

 

I'm wary of Gabriel because he seems somewhat superfluous and the show already has so many characters, but Seth Gilliam is doing a good job, and I'm glad they're bringing in more guys who aren't generic action heroes. 

 

Speaking of that...

 

Abraham continues to sour episodes for me. He just feels grafted onto the group and the show. Splitting him up helps resolve this for now, and helps stave off pissing contests with Rick (thank you!), but it doesn't help make him any less one-note or unpleasant. The note to Rick was a good start. Can we build on that?

 

Great comment, really good!  One of the things that struck me is the magic a really great actor can make with even the shittiest material.  Lawrence tore that shit up!  It was one of the longest death scenes in history, yet when Bob took his last breath, I felt like it was too soon.  Sonequa came into her own tonight and I was so proud of her.  And Seth Gilliam was amazing.  He doesn't try to sugarcoat Father Gabriel and hint at hidden depths.  Father Gabriel isn't a bad man, he's just a very very weak man and in the ZA that can be more dangerous than being bad.

 

On the other hand, my heart would go out to the actor who played Abraham if I didn't hate every moment he opened his mouth. And I was so happy to see the end of Gareth.  The actor's no David Morrissey so I'm glad he didn't stick around as long as the Governor.

 

I really liked the little scene between Michonne and Father Gabriel.  Father G seems to sense that he can talk to Michonne, that she won't judge him one way or the other and he's right.  She doesn't judge him, she just tells him that he'll find a way to live with his demons, just like she has.

[dannymoon]

 

I cannot get this ridiculous "Eugene has the cure so we are going to D.C." road trip out of my mind. I don't remember Abraham mentioning what he plans to do when he gets there. Did I miss it? I mean, how is Eugene going to miraculously produce this cure? Are they planing to go to the Naval Research Lab or NIH in Bethesda? Who does Abraham think is still alive and functioning in a densely populated D.C. metro region? Also, Rick, Glenn, and Daryl are not thinking straight. If the CDC could not come up with a vaccine or cure, what are the odds that Eugene can without the best minds, research materials, equipment at his disposal?

Agreed. I'm not so much irked that everyone is desperately hanging onto anything that brings hope, and to them, this D.C. trip may feel like the motivation to keep going. But they are all going into it so blindly without asking nearly enough questions, and it's my biggest annoyance right now. I was bothered enough in Season 4 when Glenn didn't question Abraham or Eugene, but now even Rick? As a cop who also naturally plays detective for the group, I can't believe the CDC was never mentioned, D.C.'s enormous population questioned, or telling Eugene that "classified" doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. Abraham mentioned something last season about a radio signal or communication they had had for a while, but was that ever mentioned to the current group? Rick has both children now and of course he's relieved, but I know that hasn't turned him into a sap, because see: church massacre. Badass smart Rick! I don't get it.

 

Rest of the episode I thought was terrific. Never imagined Gareth was leaving us so soon (S5 trailer editors, you are GOOD), and I have no idea who is with Daryl. He didn't look too worried but not relaxed or calm enough for it to be just Carol. Which wouldn't make sense as a "cliffhanger" anyway, so I guess Beth.

[Morrigan2575]

I had this huge post that failed to update because the board was being wonky.  

 

A few thoughts, I don't have a problem with Maggie taking off (she made a deal) for DC with Abe & Co while Beth is still out there.  The gang has no idea if Beth is still alive or even in the same county/state.  All they know is that she was taken about a week ago and no one knows anything else.  How would they even go about finding her?  It seems that the gang has come to a certain acceptance with missing group members, they now seem to leave it up to fate.  They'll leave messages and hope that people will find them or find their way back to them but the days of spending weeks looking for Sophia are long past.   

 

With Maggie/Rosita/Glenn/Tyresse looking in horror at the massacre, again, I don't have a problem with it.  No one sat there arguing for peace or mercy or saying we shouldn't do this.  I think it was more the manor of killing that shocked them not the death/killing itself.  There's a world of difference between a bullet to the head, and a repeated/brutal stabbing/head bashing which is what happened.

 

Who did Daryl bring back with him?  It better be Carol, I don't care if it's Carol and Beth but I'll be pretty pissed off if Beth/Daryl return and Carol is left as a prisoner or something lame like that.

 

This was an OK episode and i was surprised they wrapped up the Termites so quickly guess the DC Road Trip is going to be the main storyline for S5...

Edited October 27, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[SHOgirl]

 

Doing what Rick did was really just uncalled for.

I guess it depends on what a person wants out of a situation.  If one just wants the Termites dispatched so that they could not eat others, a quick bullet to the head would suffice.  But if one wants justice of the biblical kind, which can so often look like revenge, I think terrorizing Gareth for a very brief time then chopping him to pieces was an appropriate response and I really enjoyed the scene. Having a very strict sense of justice and vengeance myself, I can see how brutally attacking the Termites was even cathartic.  At least, it was for me.  

[kj4ever]

Is anyone else excited about the Daryl/Carol/Beth storyline because none of it could possibly have come from the comics?  I can't wait!  We may get a few episode without The Walking Comics!

[Milaxx]

I lost the quote, but someone upthread mentioned that Morgan siting was a flash forward. I'm pretty sure the Terminus sign had been blacked out by Rick when they showed Morgan looking at it, so it would have to be a flashback since Rick only did that after they escaped Terminus. If we want to line it up with current events at best I'd say it's happening concurrently with the events at the Church. The take away I got from that was that Morgan was a few days, perhaps weeks behind Rick & co.

 

And I was under the impression that since everyone already has the virus that unless Bob's bite was fatal then he would be ok. T-Dawg they took out most of his neck, clearly he wouldn't survive, Hershel they chopped off the leg and he was ok. Bob wasn't gonna survive the leg chopping etc but the bite didn't seem fatal to me.

 

If I'm understanding how the virus works in this universe, it depends on the location. I think of it this way; a walker has the active zombie virus but a live human has the dormant zombie virus. In order to change a person the live virus has to hit the brain stem, killing the human host and allowing the live zombie virus to take hold. Amputating a limb before the live virus takes hold can save a person's life, but a bite like Bob's that can't be amputated is pretty much fatal. You can't amputate the area and the site is too close to the brain stem. It was the same thing with Lizzie's dad last season.

 

As for Glenn & Maggie leaving, I don't think it was a negative. I think they were honoring their promise to accompany Abraham. I also think they ere probably being hopeful that as soon as they located Carol, Beth & Darryl they would head down to meet them. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Milaxx

[mandolin]

When I initially watched, I could not believe that Glenn ("we won't split up again!") and Maggie so quickly went with the DC crowd. Their faces in the church stunned me. They've seen this world. Sure, Rick didn't have to do it the way he did, but they know (especially Glenn, Rick's first post-ZA "friend") what all Rick's been through. Maybe not the Carl stuff that ended up in throat ripping, but Shane, Lori, Dale, the farm, the Governor. What a journey. Then I felt like they just threw it away in two seconds.

I came here and read some comments which made me be able to see Glenn and Maggie's side a bit. Maybe why they made that choice, but I still feel such a huge disappointment in that choice. Huge.

Also, Maggie, please stop with the closed mouth semi-smile face.

Edited October 27, 2014 by mandolin

[Statman]

I lost the quote, but someone upthread mentioned that Morgan siting was a flash forward. I'm pretty sure the Terminus sign had been blacked out by Rick when they showed Morgan looking at it, so it would have to be a flashback since Rick only did that after they escaped Terminus. If we want to line it up with current events at best I'd say it's happening concurrently with the events at the Church. The take away I got from that was that Morgan was a few days, perhaps weeks behind Rick & co.

 

The official AMC episode description says that: "Months after Rick's escape from Terminus, a masked stranger marches down the railroad tracks......"

 

http://www.amctv.com/shows/the-walking-dead/episodes/season-5/no-sanctuary

 

Morgan finding that sign a few months after Rick and Co. passed makes sense to me because the Terminus sign had plants growing all over it when Morgan passed it whereas the sign was clean when Rick marked it up. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Statman

[Caelicola]

Ok, this is probably just me overthinking things, but it's the only way I could rationalize what is otherwise a completely plot driven and somewhat incoherent decision, so bear with me:

Abraham's priority is protecting Eugene and getting him to Washington; Rick's priority is his people (except for poor Beth, I should say. Nobody gives a shit about Beth, apparently).

Now, I think Abraham knew that, on some level, but he got slapped with it on the Night of the Termites. Since it would be foolish and naive for any of them to think that the ride to DC is gonna be smooth sailing, if they stick with the whole group and run into a situation again, Abraham now knows without a shadow of a doubt that Rick and his people aren't going to prioritize Eugene's safety, but their own (and honestly, who could blame them?).

So I think once the immediate threat was over, Abraham decided to split anyway, three people stronger than he would have been the night before, and three people whose loyalty and bravery he has seen with his own eyes, rather than stick with a very large group full of very assertive people and a very strongheaded leader with no real interest in his mission.

I think he recognizes them as valuable allies, and sincerely hopes they can meet again in DC, but also recognizes them as people who will not blindly follow his directions, nor jeopardize any of their own to protect Eugene, so not the best travelling mates for him.

Now, why Rick let him take the bus, I can't fanwank away, other than maybe he just didn't want to have to say "we're taking the shortbus to DC".

 

Also, probably overthinking again, but I kinda understand why Maggie was shocked; the last time she saw a living human being hack into another living human being with a sharp blade it was the Governor beheading her daddy. And I think Glenn has decided when he learned of Hershel's death that he would become the moral compass of the group (foolish, foolish man, signing his own death sentence!!), what with the whole "we're still the guys who save people!" and "we don't need to go back and kill them".

But in any case, I think had they not promised Abraham they would go with him, they wouldn't have left their group, no matter how shocked and horrified they might have been.

 

I thought I would care more for Gabriel, but the only feeling I have toward him is still just "man, I love Seth Gilliam".

So, Rick, Carl and Daryl (plus who knows who was in the woods with him) are the only white people in their group? It would be awesome, if not for the fact that those three characters are pretty much the only ones with any kind of plot armor, so I'm afraid the as of right now decently sized minority contingent is gonna get thinner whenever they need to amp up the drama for that group.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Caelicola

[Iguessnot]

I love how women get to be heroes on this show. Sasha taking care of the business her brother left while he backed up like he was Beyonce on an elevator. Michonne heading off into the dark while Father Urkel ran back in the church to more than likely to lock the door

 

You have made my day!

[GodsBeloved]

For all the talk of characters trying to hold on to their humanity, I get tired of the idea that the only way to be human is to be weak and not fight back.

I don't see the show sending this message and I at least don't think this is the only way to hold onto your humanity. I was all for Rick going back go get the Termites. I was all for Carol putting Mary down. I was all for them ending the Termites. I think you are open to losing (some of)your humanity when you are brutal when it isn't necessary to attain your goal. Morrigan2575 said it eloquently:

 

With Maggie/Rosita/Glenn/Tyresse looking in horror at the massacre, again, I don't have a problem with it.  No one sat there arguing for peace or mercy or saying we shouldn't do this.  I think it was more the manor of killing that shocked them not the death/killing itself.  There's a world of difference between a bullet to the head, and a repeated/brutal stabbing/head bashing which is what happened.

[Portia]

I'm certainly not saying it's a good thing, but far, far worse things are done to prisoners all the time in real-life war situations . . . and sometimes these acts are committed by our "decent" western soldiers, not just the evil, mysterious Others. Rick & Co. were engaging in some definite overkill, but I didn't see the bodies being desecrated once they were dead (or should I say "once they were GOOD and dead"?). And it looked to me like they were going to be given a decent burial; weren't those the Termites piled under that bloody sheet when Rick and Tyreese were digging graves?  Again, I'm not trying to justify what they did; I'm just trying to put it in perspective. 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Portia

[Timetoread]

Bob went out as well as he reasonably could under the circumstances, even if I was doing a bit of eye rolling there at the end when he was proclaiming Rick A Good Person.  Has he seen some of the stuff Rick's been up to lately?  Rick's not a villain but he's definitely getting darker and more feral.  Still, Lawrence gave the character a phenomenal exit so kudos for that.

 

The episode did have some nice moments, like Glenn remembering Jim and reminding us that he's a season one character.  But much of the rest of it read like a sorting of characters who can leave my screen now never to return.  Everyone on the bus can go because nothing about the decision to head out when they did or even who should go made any sense whatsoever.  The comic trio still come across like people who wandered in from a different show and won't be missed.  It's amusing Tara thinks she's a huge asset at this point, and Glenn and Maggie just confirmed that they won't even be a part of the promised to be tedious "Where's Beth?" story, so what's the point?

 

The previews for next week already have me wanting to skip it.  I don't care about Beth and never will.  I'm now actively resentful that this will be taking time from characters I do care about and actors who can actually act.

 

Gabriel's story about locking his congregation out might have been at least marginally compelling had we not seen the Termites pop the lock and open the door in about 5 seconds.  Apparently his parishioners were as weak and inept as he was.

And why is there always this thought that people who go to church are so weak.  Don't they know that half the members of most mafias were altar boys?  Did they even SEE the Godfather?

[CletusMusashi]

This is going to be a dangerous post, because it's going to look like I'm endorsing things that I actually don't.

But here we go anyway: With all the creative abuse and exploitation that Gareth and Company have mastered, shouldn't they know by now what happens if you eat tainted meat?

I mean, if you have huge amounts of human flesh cooked up, and you have boxcars full of "enemies" that you want to do horrible things to, it just seems that someone like Gareth would naturally end up using somebody as a guinea pig. I'm not saying they should be capturing people and experimenting on them, any more than I think they should be eating them one leg at a time. I'm just saying that if somebody is doing one, then not doing the other seems more like a strange mental oversight than like an actual moral decision.

Edited October 28, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[peach]

Agree - glad that someone else noted this. Glenn and Maggie agreed to go before the massacre in the the church. I'm not sure why they believe that tailing around after Abraham is such a great idea. There are no guarantees in that world.

 

With that in mind, I wish we had seen more hesitation from Glenn to follow Abraham. This is, in part, the fault of the writers because they have not established that Eugene (and Abraham's devotion to him) is in any way credible. Maybe they had an off-screen discussion when they were hanging out in the box car. Maybe in a ZA you have to believe in something and Eugene's supposed cure is what resonates with Abraham, Maggie and Glenn. I wish the viewers could see what they see. Maybe if Abraham was written with a little more of John Locke in him...

 

But did they pinky swear?  I mean, that's just kind of flimsy to me that in the cold light of day, after the Termites were dead, that they still decided they had to go right then.  They all know Daryl wouldn't have left without some reason.  Maybe there's a huge threat around the next bend, but off they go anyway.

 

Agree that the writers have already made the Eugene thing an obvious ruse by him.  It would be a lot more suspenseful if they had played that less broadly, and no one including us, were sure if he really had some chance to end the ZA.  And I feel like they could have cut back on some of Gareth's monologuing, or Tyrese's whatever, and included something that showed Glenn's state of mind or doubts or something.  Instead it just feels like a plot contrivance to split the group. 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

So I think once the immediate threat was over, Abraham decided to split anyway, three people stronger than he would have been the night before, and three people whose loyalty and bravery he has seen with his own eyes, rather than stick with a very large group full of very assertive people and a very strongheaded leader with no real interest in his mission.

Exactly. He has chosen to devote himself to a single-minded and very dangerous quest to DC because he has also chosen to believe Eugene has the cure to turn everything around. Rick just wants to find someplace safe for himself and his group to live out their lives until (presumably) the walkers' internal energy reserves exhaust themselves and/or their rotting bodies simply fall apart, which is what would have to happen sooner or later, but could take years.

Abraham wants one thing, and Rick wants something else. Probably best that they go their separate ways.

[Timetoread]

I just can't with Tyrese.  I. Just. Can't.

 

That is all.

[CletusMusashi]

Perhaps Rick is part Lannister. 

No, Rick is Ned Stark. (Joffrey was The Governor.)

The biggest difference is that Rick has much better plot armor than Ned.

And probably more medieval parasites.

[peach]

Someone a few weeks back said that when Rick spearheaded the escape from Terminus, slaughtering as many of them as managable that the ghost of Shane needed to appear in the top corner of the screen nodding his approval.  Let's have that every time Rick does some sort of cold badassery.

I think that was me.  I want Shane to be Rick's Obi Wan now.  lol

 

I also love Sasha.  When Tyrese was telling her to stay with Bob instead of going after his psycho tormenters, my husband and I made a ZA promise to avenge each other if necessary.  lol  And Sasha even made it back in time to hold his hand at the end anyway.

[Anela]

I lost my comment. Damn it.

 

Short version:

 

Baby looked like she had an "Oh, sh*t" look on her face.

 

Bob was sweet, and I wish he didn't have to die.

 

If Glenn had been kidnapped, there is no way that Maggie would have gone to Washington. Unfortunately, this sort of thing happens in real life, too (person forgets that everyone else exists when they're in love), but most people I know would care just as much about a sibling.

 

Gareth talked too much. Couldn't believe that he begged for his life, when he'd just been planning their menu for the weeks ahead, and it included a *baby*, as well as the rest of the group.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Anela

[Boofish]

I love how when Abraham told Rick "try and stop me" Michonne raised her weapon and was walking behind him. Even Eugene had enough sense to know that they are "pretty much dead already" once they formed the Short Bus Crew

 

Oh Tara, I love your supremely useless self, you are more mature and likeable Beth, but please do not ask me to choose between you and what's behind door #2. If it's a year supply of turtle wax at least I'm getting something I can use. Offering herself up to the Comic Book Trio? Little do they know she is always the first one "to step up and follow" and last one to be of any use

[Valny]

Bob's end got to me more than I thought it would. RIP, Bob. I guess we'll never find out what's in the box.

 

 

What box is this ghoulina?  Please jog my memory.

[Raziela212]

I didn't think they would wrap this up so quickly, I honestly thought they would drag the Termites out for the rest of the season...

[Artsda]

Glenn and Maggie just annoyed me, they ATE Bob. They cut off his leg and ATE him, yet they're going to act judgemental that the group is going to kill them all? Would Glenn be ok if they ate Maggie's leg? Would he still be standing there with a look of disapproval? Also Maggie seems to not care at all about where her sister is or to look for her at all, you'd think after losing her father she'd be more about family and looking for her sister but nope. No cares at all. 

 

Hate to see Bob go, but love the way he went out. Laughing at tainted meat and saying good bye to the others.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Artsda

[Caelicola]

Also, I'd like to thank the writer/director/whoever it was who decided to have Michonne be the one to deal with the only female Termite. As awful and horrible as the cannibals were, I wouldn't have enjoyed seeing Rick or Abraham mash a woman's head into a pulp. So thanks for sparing me that visual.