S06.E05: Shiny Objects

[Aethera]

Yeesh I dunno about this episode. I wonder if it was gauging interest for an Elsbeth spinoff - I know there was some talk about it in the Spring. I have to say, this Elsbeth, no way. The old Elsbeth, maybe, although she probably is better in small doses. I really do feel like this was not a solid progression. She's supposed to be awesome and quirky, not bad and quirky. 

 

Jill Hennessy did look really rough. Not good. 

 

And Diane is not that stupid.

 

Does JM have some kind of blackmail material on the Kings, causing them to assassinate all the other female characters? What the hell, character nonsense all over the place.

 

Edited to add: I totally forgot about Kalinda. It's bothered me for several seasons now that Lana and Rawlins show up and just expect sex, and that she can't just say "I'm in a relationship" or "I don't want to". It seems like she's always being guilted into it. She didn't try to use sex to get Lana to give her information. Lana brought it up.

Edited October 20, 2014 by aethera

[riverheightsnancy]

RHNancy (hi!) I get where you're coming from with the schizophrenia, but Elspeth--my favorite character--has been portrayed many times as a brilliant legal mind with a side dish of somewhat charming eccentricity.  It seems very wrong to say now that she can be completely derailed by a kitten pic.  I thought there was going to be a (minor) story line about Elspeth's transition, but apparently we're supposed to believe she's the same as always.  No.

 

Hey Candall! -had to take a mental break from that hit TV show, Utopia!  If we were talking about someone with schizophrenia, and she/he is decompensating and having more hallucinations and psychotic behavior, then it is very possible that some certain things could be triggers for them. I had a few patients that would think that the TV was talking to only them, and they (uh) would answer it too! All kinds of things might be distracting for them and it is highly individualized and unique, I suppose. I have to say that my schiz patients were my favorites. Their delusions are often very interesting to hear about. The way they think is very unique. 

[candall]

Hey Candall! -had to take a mental break from that hit TV show, Utopia!  If we were talking about someone with schizophrenia, and she/he is decompensating and having more hallucinations and psychotic behavior, then it is very possible that some certain things could be triggers for them. I had a few patients that would think that the TV was talking to only them, and they (uh) would answer it too! All kinds of things might be distracting for them and it is highly individualized and unique, I suppose. I have to say that my schiz patients were my favorites. Their delusions are often very interesting to hear about. The way they think is very unique. 

"Decompensating."  There's the word I needed.

 

Having a teeny tiny storyline centered around Elspeth and the (back and forth?) continuum between "adorably quirky" and "hallucinatory dysfunction" would be a nice PSA for this show, since the character's so popular and everything.  But, ha, who am I kidding?

 

I really hope they go ahead and address Alicia's increasing conflict with the wine, however--starting with those 7-11 Big Gulp glasses she favors.  Glug glug glug glug.  I'm fond of a nice libation myself, but no drinking alone. I'd soon be scouring Pottery Barn for the convenient 32 oz. single serve, too. 

 

Portion control--it's not just for dinner anymore.

[swimmyfish]

Regarding Kalinda and Lana...did Kalinda not want to use the word gay and that is why she got upset, or did she just not want to share anything at all?

I wasn't sure how to read her reaction. 

 

I took that as Kalinda not wanting to share anything at all. It seemed to me that Lana was trying to ask about Kalinda's relationship with her parents and/or family, and I think that Kalinda is not a person who likes to acknowledge her history. (Which, based on what we saw of her husband, I can't blame her.)

[romantic idiot]

I was screaming, "MOVE THE FREAKING CHAIR!!!!" at that scene. Diane was not FA&A's MVP this episode - first of all who clicks links on sketchy emails? Secondly, the email address screw-up. Thirdly, moving them all back to LG's offices (so much for the start-up idea, huh?).

 

My brother actually had the ransomware happen to him without needing to click on an email. They held all his files hostage for him forwarding the malware to others. Needless to say he didn't and lost like a TB or so of files. And he switched to Linux the next day. So, I don't they needed to show Diane clicking on the email. And she could have used her old LG account since the F&A network was down. So yeah, incompetent (unusually) for no reason. 

 

This episode was a mixed bad for me. The bad has already been covered. But here's what I found interesting or perhaps food for thought is better. 

 

Canning and Lee in a way sow their own seeds for destruction. They held the email hostage to Diane signing over the lease, thus making her aware of the lease, and doing so in a way that guaranteed she wouldn't want to do them any favours. What is annoying is that this strategy has already not worked for LG in the past, when they tried to get Alicia to sign her "inheritance" away. 

 

The other interesting part of this episode was it making me think about how I watch television and view characters. They tried to show the Elspeth has some sort of a mental affliction / is easily distracted. And Alicia is uniquely aware of this for some reason or is the only one deducing this. And chooses to use this against her in court. This is exactly the same situation as what happened with Stern a few years back. And I was firmly on Alicia's side. I understood that she felt bad, but I supporter (and even approved of) her decision. Cut to this episode, and I did not like Alicia pulling that stunt here. Alicia obviously did not need to wrestle with anything here - maybe her only wrestling then was about how to use her knowledge without violating privilege. But I was very unhappy with Alicia this time around. I don't know if it's just that Elpeth became my surrogate because the episode opened with her. I don't know if it is just that I like Elspeth more. Anyway, this is a big plus for me, because it is making me think about the way I watch television. 

[mrsdalgliesh]

 

Loved Tara's recap, but I thought that Peter's action at the end was, even though not what Eli wanted, his way of tacitly supporting Alicia publicly? Not that he was stealing her thunder by forcing her to share the stage, but since he didn't go into the wings after introducing her and instead stayed on the stage, he was offering that key shot of the "subordinate" position that Eli was so leery of.

 

This is how I read it, too.   Peter initially asks Alicia if she's okay with him endorsing and then standing off to the side (as Eli wanted), so it's a big deal when he stays on stage with her later.

 

(favorite part of the recap:  "WELL, THAT'LL DO.")

 

I appreciate the comments that caution against seeing any mental illness of Elsbeth's as a character flaw or a dis against her.  Plenty of us are coping/excelling while having a mental illness, so that in and of itself shouldn't be a negative.  I think what bothered many of us (at least me) was that she seemed to be tanking in court -- something that had not happened before. 

Edited October 20, 2014 by mrsdalgliesh

[Kromm]

That clown in the recap graphic is almost as creepy as the American Horror Story clown.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Another thing that is stupid about this episode, (add it to the pile),

The show goes from

 

- Everyone's at LG

- Everyone except Cary at LG

- Everyone back at LG

 

- Cary and Alicia go to FA

- Will Dead

 

- Lockhart go to FA

- Cary / Alicia/ Lockhart all move back to LG.  So back to the beginning except nothing's changed except Will still dead.

 

I find this nonsensical musical chairs ridiculous, like one of the writers hates a move made by another episode writer so simply writes in a ridiculous change to bring it back to where it was beforehand.  Next Will is going to be resurrected.  Here's hoping.

 

I'm fond of a nice libation myself, but no drinking alone.

 

Seriously?  I live alone -- so what, I'm hardly ever allowed to drink?  ; )  Sorry.... I feel differently on that one.  It's a legal activity and a lot of people do a lot of legal activities in solitary.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Ms Blue Jay

[AudienceofOne]

Seriously?  I live alone -- so what, I'm hardly ever allowed to drink?

 

 

Yeah, me too. I live alone so I'm never allowed to open a bottle of wine? I make myself a martini every Friday afternoon. OMG!!! Get me to rehab!!!

[milkyaqua]

I don't think anyone has anything against Alicia having the occasional glass of wine when she gets home at the end of the day.  I think what most people notice is how big those glasses are and that sometimes she doesn't just have one.  It's probably harmless but the way the show sets it up, one could see how some might make more of it than need be.

 

 

 

The show goes from



- Everyone's at LG

- Everyone except Cary at LG

- Everyone back at LG



- Cary and Alicia go to FA

- Will Dead



- Lockhart go to FA

- Cary / Alicia/ Lockhart all move back to LG.  So back to the beginning except nothing's changed except Will still dead.



I find this nonsensical musical chairs ridiculous, like one of the writers hates a move made by another episode writer so simply writes in a ridiculous change to bring it back to where it was beforehand.  Next Will is going to be resurrected.  Here's hoping.

 

I agree with this.  Before they killed off Will, I pretty much expected that Alicia and Co. would do their thing for one season maybe and then wind-up at L/G.  Then they killed Will but I've never thought that F/A was the end game.

 

 

 

I appreciate the comments that caution against seeing any mental illness of Elsbeth's as a character flaw or a dis against her.  Plenty of us are coping/excelling while having a mental illness, so that in and of itself shouldn't be a negative.  I think what bothered many of us (at least me) was that she seemed to be tanking in court -- something that had not happened before.

 

I don't find any fault with Elsbeth due to her mental state.  I do wonder what TPTB are doing here though.  If she's schizo, has ADHD or Aspberger's or whatever, the only thing I would be leery of, is this show trying to write honestly about it.  I've always assumed Elsbeth was just quirky but a competent attorney.  This epi was just bizarro but I blame that, as usual, with the writers/producers.

 

As for Jill Hennessy, I haven't cared about a character she played since the mothership L&O.  I don't know what possesed her to do whatever it is she seems to have done to herself.

 

I also don't really care for Kalinda's sex life.  I always found the idea of she and Cary a bad, stupid, lazy probably convenient idea but really, just stupid and lazy.  As for she and the fed, I find their interactions painful in that Kalinda obviously doesn't want to talk about anything too personal and Lana seems to be butt hurt when Kalinda comes to her for something but then she goes along with it anyway so I don't care if her feelings are hurt.  Same with Cary.  If these folks are silly enough to tangle with Kalinda sexually, they should expect to get burned.

 

I'm hoping they give Archie a decent exit though I don't hold out much hope here.  Most stories have said she's there through the end of the season but there's nothing to say they don't have her exit earlier (not November since those shows should have been shot already) like around Feb sweeps.

 

I don't know what to make of Peter and Alicia except I think they deserve each other and I don't mean that in a good way either.

 

Diane and the hijacked files, where I work we have mandatory training every year on how to deal with suspicious emails and whatnot.  The main point is not to open anything you deem suspicious, delete it and report it to IT.  For sure if you open said email you absoluely, positively do not, open the attachments.

Edited October 20, 2014 by milkyaqua

[CoderLady]

The other interesting part of this episode was it making me think about how I watch television and view characters. They tried to show the Elspeth has some sort of a mental affliction / is easily distracted. And Alicia is uniquely aware of this for some reason or is the only one deducing this. And chooses to use this against her in court. This is exactly the same situation as what happened with Stern a few years back. And I was firmly on Alicia's side. I understood that she felt bad, but I supporter (and even approved of) her decision. Cut to this episode, and I did not like Alicia pulling that stunt here. Alicia obviously did not need to wrestle with anything here - maybe her only wrestling then was about how to use her knowledge without violating privilege. But I was very unhappy with Alicia this time around. I don't know if it's just that Elpeth became my surrogate because the episode opened with her. I don't know if it is just that I like Elspeth more. Anyway, this is a big plus for me, because it is making me think about the way I watch television. 

 

I forgot she punked Stern but I seem to recall it was done for his own good and the good of the firm. He was making faulty decisions because he thought he was a lot healthier than he was.

 

Aside from Elspeth magically becoming so cripplingly dysfunctional for the plot, I think it was rotten of Alicia to do that to her. Elspeth has brilliantly saved her, Peter and L/G from multiple disasters and has always been happy to do so. This just seemed nasty and personal. They couldn't out-think her in court so they fuck her up? Stuff like this is making me look forward to something ruinous happening to Alicia in the future -- hoping for it, actually.

[izabella]

They couldn't out-think her in court so they fuck her up? Stuff like this is making me look forward to something ruinous happening to Alicia in the future -- hoping for it, actually.

 

The only thing Alicia has left to ruin is her career.  Marriage?  Done.  Kids?  Zach is persona non grata and she has no clue how to connect with Grace OR Zach - those kids might as well be someone else's for all that she has any connection with them.  Family?  She just insulted her brother and, while her mother is made of sterner stuff she isn't someone that Alicia likes or enjoys in any way.  Friends?  She pulled the rug out from Cary by inviting Diane and a bunch of other people to the firm without his agreement.  Kalinda is over.  Will is actually dead.  Finn?  Mmm, more like a (mild) love/sex interest than friend.  Eli?  Only as far as politics are concerned.  Elsbeth?  Not so much considering she was willing to sabotage her in court.

 

Alicia only has a great condo, and a career going for her at this point.  Oh, and nice big glasses of wine when she gets home to make herself feel better about her life.

 

Her involvement with Bishop could torpedo her legal career in a nanosecond, just like Cary.  Then the condo goes bye-bye if she can't afford to keep paying the mortgage.  Hell, if she gets elected, she'll need to leave FA and won't be making enough to keep that.

Edited October 20, 2014 by izabella

[photo fox]

I don't think Alicia is an alcoholic, but I think her relationship with wine approaches something I would call... concerning. Not because she drinks alone, or even because of the size of her wine glasses, but because sometimes she appears to need a drink. That's the thing that makes me take notice.

Drinking socially, or because she loves wine, or to help relax at the end of a long day I don't see as problematic. But when someone needs to drink to cope/have fun/deal with social situations, it starts to be a different thing, IMHO.

[morgankobi]

Yeah, I'm not scared of clowns, but I feel for any Good Wife fan who is.

There was something Pennywise about him.

Edited October 20, 2014 by morgankobi

[ChocButterfly]

I don't think her strategy against Elsbeth was so out of line. Desperate? Yeah, but not rotten. I mean, if Elsbeth is so incompetent as to not even be able to interrogate the witness just cuz she sees a pic of a penguin, then she shouldn't be in a court at all.

Which is what bothered me the most about the way they portrayed Elsbeth this episode. I don't care if she has ADHD, if she's a genius or just schizophrenic; the one thing she has never been is INCOMPETENT. So the fact that she was so easily distracted at court (c'mon a pic on a magazine!?) was just stupid. And you know what else was stupid? Her partner not being able to close the case by herself. I mean, the minute Elsbeth started failing at court, the partner should have stepped in. But the partner didn't seem to be able to win the case by herself. So much for the "Rainmaker"...

 

I hate Peter! He's such an ass. The nerve he had talking to Alicia like that. The balls to get offended when she mentioned how she stood by him when the hooker thing happened! And every time he ran for something, she would help him, even when she didn't want to. He OWES her!! But he has the guts to refuse cuz he's jealous of Finn??? Asshole! The fact that he came through at the end doesn't absolve him. He just did it cuz he knows what Alicia told him about his approval ratings it's truth. Asshole.

 

Why can't they use a common cockroach on TV? If I ever see one of those big exotic ones around the house, I'd grab it and sell it to a pet store.

[wagthedog]

I don't know who still clicks on executables, but the IT department where I work just made us go to a mandatory re-training on data security and the main issue that was addressed was this ransom software. So, as ridiculous as it seemed having Diane click the link, apparently highly educated people who should know better do it enough that it gives IT departments a headache.

 

I don't know why, but I enjoy seeing Peter and Alicia have ugly fights.

 

The whole "moving back to Lockhart Gardner office space" thing seems like re-tread, but considering it took more than a season and yielded some solid stories, I'm ok with it. The animosity/hostility between Canning/Lee and Florick/Agos/Lockhart is going to be elevated which should be fun.

 

As far as Kalinda goes, it's never clear what they're going for, but I get the impression that in spite of Kalinda often manipulating Lana, Kalinda has some genuine feelings for Lana. The look on Kalinda's face at the end when Lana walked out seemed pretty sad to me.

[Irlandesa]

I hate Peter! He's such an ass. The nerve he had talking to Alicia like that. The balls to get offended when she mentioned how she stood by him when the hooker thing happened! And every time he ran for something, she would help him, even when she didn't want to. He OWES her!!

No one forced her to stand beside Peter.  She made that choice because she got something out of it.  She's the one who chose to put their marriage into a business model so she needs to negotiate favors. 

 

.

As far as Kalinda goes, it's never clear what they're going for, but I get the impression that in spite of Kalinda often manipulating Lana, Kalinda has some genuine feelings for Lana. The look on Kalinda's face at the end when Lana walked out seemed pretty sad to me.

I don't know if it was because of genuine feelings or if it was because Lana ruined the party Kalinda had planned. 

[Former Nun]

Which is what bothered me the most about the way they portrayed Elsbeth this episode. I don't care if she has ADHD, if she's a genius or just schizophrenic; the one thing she has never been is INCOMPETENT.

 

 

Yeah, ChocButterfly!  Last season I was really wanting Elsbeth to have a spin-off show of her own.   The writers really did her a disservice going (I assume) for cheap laughs.    As for huge cockroaches...come to the Arizona desert.

[Youngy]

Yeah, I don't know. It just all seemed so frazzled, for want of a better word. It does annoy me when major events in character's lives ("what did you say about an election, Alicia?") are being ignored by other characters, even those (the other attorneys at F/A) who would obviously have great interest in the matter. And there are inconsistencies in what the show is focusing on, storyline, week-to-week, so far in this new season. Perhaps it's because nothing can compare with the narrative thrust of last season, one of the best of any network drama in recent memory. Hard to keep up that pace.

 

As for Alicia's drinking? I think the show's having a little fun with that; it's always been a character trait mostly played for amusement. The look Eli gave her when she glugged-glugged-glugged her wine pour early in last week's episode was priceless.

[cheyz]

I don't think they were trying to make Diane seem old, the reason she made the payment was because she was the one with a Bitcoin account. She was just high enough not to have repercussions from infecting everyone, as opposed to one of the nameless partners. I did expect Alicia to call Zach though, isn't he their tech guru?

 

On the drinking, Finn had a line about her not driving this time when they met at the bar, but then they never followed it up. Did she take a cab or walk to meet him?

[possibilities]

Making Elsbeth dysfunctional as a lawyer is disappointing enough, but they also had Alicia say she knew how to distract her-- which implies that this has always been a problem, which makes no sense.

 

If it was always true, then other lawyers would also have noticed, and it would have happened before whenever anyone approached her during a break, or she spotted something or other in the audience. And we have seen her in court numerous times, very successfully. There's just no way this is how she's always been.

 

And they just can't have it both ways: either Tascioni was always incompetent, which we know is not true. Or she has been so for at least a while, long enough for Alicia to notice but no one else, not even her law partner and co-counsel? Or she is suddenly having problems, but then-- why would Alicia know?

 

If the show was going to do a story about decompensation, fine. But they can't do that and have Alicia be the only person who notices. And, if they were playing it that way and not only had Alicia be the only one to notice, but also be the only one to exploit it? Alicia pisses me off sometimes, but she's not even remotely the sleaziest lawyer on the show. Someone else would have tried it before, and her law partner would know about it.

 

I fully understand that people with "mental illnesses" or other psychiatric diagnoses can be brilliant, interesting, functional, etc. I have an ex who's schizophrenic and one of my closest friends is multiple. Half the people I know have some label attached to them courtesy of the DSM, and I keep them in my life because they're awesome and not because it's my job (I don't work in a mental health profession, I just like quality people).

 

What I object to in this episode has nothing to do with whether Elsbeth does or does not merit a diagnosis, but rather that they suddenly came up with a plot that doesn't make sense and minimizes her power relative to Alicia-- and this is not the first time they've done something like this to a fan favorite female.

 

When Cary worked for the SA's office, and went up against Alicia in court, he was allowed to stay competent and at times even somewhat heroic.

 

Right now, even though he's behaving in a very shady way in court, Finn gets to be Alicia's favoritist person.

 

They don't always retcon or diminish the competence of characters who become Alicia's professional rivals-- they only do it to the women.

 

I really think there's a sexist motive here, and it's taking away from one of the things I used to love most about the show: it passed the Bechdel Test with flying colors on a regular basis, had many powerful women all at the same time (not just a token), and they worked together without pettiness. But more and more it's been about Alicia and the men surrounding her, and the other women have also been made more about the men than each other-- the women have been divided and weakened in a way they never were before.

 

The "all women's firm" of Tascioni and the Rainmaker have just been shown to be Incompetent/helpless (Tascioni) and passive/helpless (Rainmaker).

 

Kalinda bounces back and forth between bedrooms with an occasional side trip to be terrified of Bishop. Yes, she still saves the day, but they have switched to treating her like a useful resource, not a colleague, and she never seems to take any joy in her work the way she used to.

 

This week Diane was used as the butt of the ransomware plot, when it could have been anyone else in the firm-- anyone-- but they made it Diane.

 

And Robin wasn't even there this week!

[wagthedog]

I don't know if it was because of genuine feelings or if it was because Lana ruined the party Kalinda had planned.

Good point. But if all she wanted from that situation was a party, she could have just called Carey. He would have come runnin.

 

and she never seems to take any joy in her work the way she used to.

True story. They really lost their way with Kalinda in a lot of respects. The Alicia/Kalinda friendship never really rebounded either.

[backformore]

Having worked with psychiatric patients, I saw Elsbeth as schizophrenic- all day and night.

 

Absolutely.   It's certainly the story they were telling, with the hallucinations and such.  And Elsbeth has always been scattered, quirky, had the tendency to see things a little bit differently.  Her mind goes a million miles per hour, but not in an ADHD way.  She's making connections between things that are not connected, trying to make sense of the jumbled "stuff"  running through her brain.  Interestingly, I've seen teenagers who have been diagnosed with ADHD, but are actually in the early stages of psychosis. 

 

I once worked with a brilliant biochemist who was a lot like her.  We were working on a project to identify the biological markers of schizophrenia, in hopes to find a cure.  He had schizophrenia  himself, and worked tirelessly on the project.   and then there were times he didn't show up, or came in looking disheveled, acting confused, not making sense.  I always thought of him as on that line between genius and psychosis.

 

The only other explanation for Elsebeth is that she is  having psychotic symptoms associated with a medication she is taking, or withdrawal from a medication. 

 

I don't know if Alicia is an alcoholic.  I think she is headed that way, she has a large glass of wine EVERY day when she comes home, and often more than one.  I think when you are running for office, it is wise to stop drinking, or at least drink only rarely and only at home.

[lucindabelle]

There used to be such a thing as the cocktail hour in which a man would have a drink after work. Most of he hose people were not alcoholics. As for drinking alone, she lives with teenagers, so this would be sentencing her to never having a glass of I wine with dinner. Unless you think most of the french and Italian are alcoholics too, where wine is considered the natural accompaniment to dinner, I think this is is reading in. In France and Italy, most adults have a large glass of wine with dinner every day. Children drink table wine.

Some people enjoy wine and cocktails and not everyone who does has a problem with it, anymore than people who enjoy espresso are caffeine addicts. Are some? Yes. But there is zero evidence that this character is a functioning alcoholic. Sure, she decided not to drink on a few occasions. I've held myself back from eating too much ice cream to de stress. You can know something is bad for you and that you might be tempted to overdo it without it being a symbol of latent addiction.

Besides which I am so tired of television using shorthand to rough in character traits it's such a damn cliche. I've talked about this on tv tropes you hate too. Nobody ever goes gambling with friends to Atlantic city but next thing you know they're addicts. Nobody ever gets tipsy at a party without being an alcoholic. Nobody over 70 has a cold without dying. Etc. . Alcoholism is a serious illness and it is not really a way to explore it but cheapening if any drinking at all is conflated with it, anymore than it would be to suggest that characters who have sex are sex addicts. Even kalinda and her magic hooha isn't presented as a sex addict, just as a highly sexed individual.

I'm bored by the election stuff.

Is the sexual harassment case ongoing?

Edited October 21, 2014 by lucindabelle

[eurekagirl mOo]

Way back when I used to love Cagney & Lacey. At one point I noticed Cagney drank all the dang time. Shades of Alicia? They gave her the rehab and AA story after that. But I agree with those who say having a drink is legal and enjoying a drink is fine. I was also brought up with the "don't drink alone" theory but since I live alone does that mean I have to go to a bar and pay 10x as much for a single drink? Or does that make me a "loose" woman because I go to a bar? See you can't win for losing!

[marceline]

I opted out of this episode just a few minutes in. It's the first time I've ever done that with this show. I simply have no interest in seeing Alicia run for SA.

[alexvillage]

This show is very boring. The episode was a drag. 

Jill Hennessy needs to adjust her tanning bed because, even though it is October and Halloween is near, she does not need to look like a pumpkin

[Cattitude]

I really didn't like this episode and first time ever did other things while it was on in the background.

 

I like Elsabeth and I didn't mind her kookie mind as it is no worse than the Gloria Steinem in Alicia's mind which was also OTT. I took what she was doing as classic Elsabeth free association. That is how she works best. She gets her bursts of brilliance by free association and hence why she was listening to xylophone music.

 

The rest was pure drivel, except I did LOL at David Lee's comment about when unicorns fly out his ass. LOL got to love David Lee.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Cattitude

[Inquisitionist]

My god, that was awful.

[CleoCaesar]

They don't always retcon or diminish the competence of characters who become Alicia's professional rivals-- they only do it to the women.

 

I really think there's a sexist motive here, and it's taking away from one of the things I used to love most about the show: it passed the Bechdel Test with flying colors on a regular basis, had many powerful women all at the same time (not just a token), and they worked together without pettiness. But more and more it's been about Alicia and the men surrounding her, and the other women have also been made more about the men than each other-- the women have been divided and weakened in a way they never were before.

 

The "all women's firm" of Tascioni and the Rainmaker have just been shown to be Incompetent/helpless (Tascioni) and passive/helpless (Rainmaker).

 

Kalinda bounces back and forth between bedrooms with an occasional side trip to be terrified of Bishop. Yes, she still saves the day, but they have switched to treating her like a useful resource, not a colleague, and she never seems to take any joy in her work the way she used to.

 

This week Diane was used as the butt of the ransomware plot, when it could have been anyone else in the firm-- anyone-- but they made it Diane.

 

I think it's a little too late to be calling this a sexist show, after years of well-rounded female characters, and there's not much basis for it anyway. Like in the case this week, where the CEO said she was fired for being a woman and the other side tried to demonstrate that there were other factors at play, same thing here. There are many ways to explain what you see as sexism on the part of the writers. Like, they made Diane the butt of the ransomware plot not because she's a woman, but because she's not as tech savvy as the younger generation. Kalinda's resourcefulness and using sex as a weapon doesn't come from her being female, it comes from her smarts and willingness to exploit other people's weaknesses. The "all-woman's" firm of two people we barely see can't be a reasonable barometer of how women are treated on this show. Men typically surround Alicia because big law is a very male field, as is politics. To be a "feminist" show do the female characters have to be badass superheroes, or do they have to be complex, 3-dimensional, layered characters with flaws? 'Cause I think we're getting the latter, and I am glad for it.

Edited October 21, 2014 by CleoCaesar

[lunastartron]

I think it's a little too late to be calling this a sexist show, after years of well-rounded female characters, and there's not much basis for it anyway. Like in the case this week, where the CEO said she was fired for being a woman and the other side tried to demonstrate that there were other factors at play, same thing here. There are many ways to explain what you see as sexism on the part of the writers. Like, they made Diane the butt of the ransomware plot not because she's a woman, but because she's not as tech savvy as the younger generation. Kalinda's resourcefulness and using sex as a weapon doesn't come from her being female, it comes from her smarts and willingness to exploit other people's weaknesses. The "all-woman's" firm of two people we barely see can't be a reasonable barometer of how women are treated on this show. Men typically surround Alicia because big law is a very male field, as is politics. To be a "feminist" show do the female characters have to be badass superheroes, or do they have to be complex, 3-dimensional, layered characters with flaws? 'Cause I think we're getting the latter, and I am glad for it.

 

All programs have trajectories even with consistent writing teams, so I don't think this show's past success with promoting feminist themes automatically means that any narrative trends aren't troubling. For instance, in the pilot, Diane was presented as a potentially insecure older rival threatened by Alicia's arrival; mercifully, the Kings jettisoned that implicit arc for a much richer portrayal of a vibrant, successful woman who (thank God) didn't adhere to the archetype of a middle-aged careerist who suddenly rues her lack of a man and family.

 

I initially found Alicia engaging, but as the series has progressed I think she has become increasingly hypocritical and prone to self-righteousness, which is a major intellectual failing to me. And from my perspective, a heroine who is too sanctimoniously dumb to grasp ostensibly obvious moral contradictions (getting outraged over Caitlin's hiring a mere two years after she benefited from Will's largesse; upbraiding Zach for lying while telephoning him with a directive to lie) and so self-involved viewers got an entire episode devoted to the fantasia that her ex-boyfriend's last hours were all about her (despite no evidence supporting that conclusion) isn't just flawed or complex. She's approaching deluded and/or well and truly stupid. 

 

I actually prefer dramas with morally challenged leads that feature ambitious women. However, the recent scripting decisions (Alicia's evolution, Diane's marginalization) on The Good Wife are definitely nearing the Shondaland  *shudder* ballpark for me in terms of anti-feminism.

 

Mileage varies, of course.

[Jellybeans]

I hated this episode. Clowns, wine, schizophrenia, politics and Kalinda sex.

In one episode.

[Kromm]

I hated this episode. Clowns, wine, schizophrenia, politics and Kalinda sex.

In one episode.

Kalinda sex is fine when it's not an indiscriminate brickbat used to run down her character's morals (which it clear was this time).

[CleoCaesar]

All programs have trajectories even with consistent writing teams, so I don't think this show's past success with promoting feminist themes automatically means that any narrative trends aren't troubling. For instance, in the pilot, Diane was presented as a potentially insecure older rival threatened by Alicia's arrival; mercifully, the Kings jettisoned that implicit arc for a much richer portrayal of a vibrant, successful woman who (thank God) didn't adhere to the archetype of a middle-aged careerist who suddenly rues her lack of a man and family.

 

I initially found Alicia engaging, but as the series has progressed I think she has become increasingly hypocritical and prone to self-righteousness, which is a major intellectual failing to me. And from my perspective, a heroine who is too sanctimoniously dumb to grasp ostensibly obvious moral contradictions (getting outraged over Caitlin's hiring a mere two years after she benefited from Will's largesse; upbraiding Zach for lying while telephoning him with a directive to lie) and so self-involved viewers got an entire episode devoted to the fantasia that her ex-boyfriend's last hours were all about her (despite no evidence supporting that conclusion) isn't just flawed or complex. She's approaching deluded and/or well and truly stupid.

 

This is probably a larger conversation about what feminism is/means, but I don't see any of the above as being incompatible with the movement's goals. I don't need female characters to be bright, vibrant, ambitious, kickass, aspirational, etc. - it's fine if they are, but I'm equally interested in female characters that are deluded, cowardly, conflicted, greedy, calculating, insecure, even stupid. I just need them to be complex and believable, not 2D cutouts of what predominantly male writers imagine women to be. 

[pennben]

 

What I object to in this episode has nothing to do with whether Elsbeth does or does not merit a diagnosis, but rather that they suddenly came up with a plot that doesn't make sense and minimizes her power relative to Alicia-- and this is not the first time they've done something like this to a fan favorite female.

 

I agree with so much of what you said possibilities.  I quote this only because when I saw the description of the episode in my cable guide, which included that Elsbeth was going up against Alicia, I sighed because I knew exactly how this episode was going to turn out as far as their battle went. 

[Pjxf99]

I can't believe I'm debating an imaginary diagnosis of a TV character, but I felt like the writers were trying to say she has Aspergers. Temple Grandin (famous person with the diagnosis) has put out books saying she "thinks in pictures" in a kind of visual free association.  I thought that's what they were going for. Whatever it was supposed to be, it wasn't done well enough to realistically fit any kind of diagnosis (but TV rarely is). I guess it could be schizophrenia, but the penguin wasn't talking to her and telling her to do things, he was just distracting.  She could be whatever-she-is and be off her meds...

 

and not everyone really fits a diagnosis. Some people are just weird!

 

 I totally agree with everyone else that she's always been quirky but competent. This made her seem like a kindergartner playing lawyer. 

[izabella]

I actually prefer dramas with morally challenged leads that feature ambitious women. However, the recent scripting decisions (Alicia's evolution, Diane's marginalization) on The Good Wife are definitely nearing the Shondaland  *shudder* ballpark for me in terms of anti-feminism.

 

I'm sad that Diane and Cary have been so marginalized.  Will is gone, so now it's all Alicia, almost all the time.  I know the show is all about the Good Wife, but I'm not loving all this focus on Alicia at work, Alicia's campaign, Alicia and Peter, Alicia and Finn, Alicia and Taye Diggs.  Alicia and Zach.  Alicia and Eli.  The cases aren't a breather because it's always Alicia in court or closely involved in the case.  Apparently, Alicia is "the sun."

 

At the same time, I don't want to see Kalinda having sex with somebody or other, Diane being stupid, shenanigans with Lockhart Gardner, or Cary back in prison. 

 

I see where they've taken the show with those book-ended pictures at the podium.  Peter is becoming the Good Husband to her St. Alicia. 

Edited October 22, 2014 by izabella

[beeble]

As someone who has ADHD, I can sort of see what they were trying to do with Elspeth. I do my best solving of things either just waking up or on the treadmill, and other things in front of me can either help me or I can tune them out.  As for Alicia's method of creating courtroom distractions (the first being with Will), Penguins I can sorta buy. But kittens? Those are for amateurs. They're all over the internet, and if you can't deal with kitten distractions then you may as well just quit your job now.

 

I would like a show with nothing but Eli's reaction shots.

[CleoCaesar]

I might agree if all, or at least some, of the male characters were made to look as incompetent as Elspeth was made to look this episode. But Bishop?  Eli?  Peter?  No.  Something similar didn't really happen with the men.

 

I'm not really sure that Elspeth's incompetence in this episode is indicative of women being made to look incompetent in general on the show. Alicia is, was, and will always be super capable. Kalinda's super capability was brought to almost absurd levels (she can always somehow find the one piece of evidence need to win a case! she manipulates people into sharing secrets! even her vagina is a magic magnet!). Diane is a steely badass 99% of the time. Jackie is ruthless and a master manipulator. Grace isn't the brightest crayon in the box, but can't have everything.

 

Elspeth's cartoonish incompetence in "Shiny Objects" seemed more like the exception to the rule.

[Driad]

 

What bothered me most about Elspeth's hallucinations is that we had not been shown this before.  We knew she was flaky, but the sudden appearance of the penguins, clowns, etc. gave the impression that something had changed.  That is why I wondered if she had been poisoned.

[Kromm]

What bothered me most about Elspeth's hallucinations is that we had not been shown this before.  We knew she was flaky, but the sudden appearance of the penguins, clowns, etc. gave the impression that something had changed.  That is why I wondered if she had been poisoned.

Poison isn't necessary. We can theorize a psychotic break just as easily. Despite the name, that doesn't necessarily mean someone is some dangerous murderer--it just means their grasp on reality has gone bye-bye.  Delusions are common for something like that.  

 

If it can happen to Amanda Bynes, I suppose it can happen to a fictional character.

[Cattitude]

I feel I must point out that Elspeth was in no way letting her appearance go or not eating or sleeping properly. A break usually includes neglect in self care and personal habits like eating and sleeping. I very much think the goal was a peek inside how her mind usually works.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Cattitude

[Jlina]

 

I very much think the goal was a peek inside how her mind usually works.

 

I have to respectfully completely disagree.  And if indeed that is how her mind has worked all these years, why'd no one ever show her pictures of penquins before?

 

She got an Emmy award for a Guest Star role on this show; and yet in this episode she's weirder than any time she was ever on Trueblood, and that's saying a lot.

 

And she's never, ever been any other personality or shades of it before either so I veto the schizophrenic diagnosis.  I agree if she were having a psychotic break she'd have been in more physical dissaray but I really think it was pure and evil character assassination. 

 

I think even brilliant people who made amazing life changing deductive leaps do not have that kind of junk going on inside their head.  It was poorly played and for no reason unless or until we find out differently.  I often think in a mindflow kind of way and make intuitive leaps;  but I never have crappy, creepy childhoodish cartoon visuals accompanying that.

 

Alicia seems to HAVE to be the specialist special snowflake in any given room.  Whether that's JM's terms or the King's who knows, but it cheapens and weakens their story line.  If she realized something was wrong as it seems she did from her manipulative behavior, she should have been concerned, not a bitch about it - gah.

 

Orson, on the other hand, was looking damn fine!  :)

[riverheightsnancy]

Diane and the hijacked files, where I work we have mandatory training every year on how to deal with suspicious emails and whatnot.  The main point is not to open anything you deem suspicious, delete it and report it to IT.  For sure if you open said email you absoluely, positively do not, open the attachments.

 

Yes. I know time was of the essence, but WHY aren't they involving the police, FBI, CIA, Homeland Security? Some governmental agency? By doing so, I think-not a lawyer here- that the judge would be forced to allow extra time (maybe? Perhaps?) due to the seriousness of what was happening? How do they know that it wasn't their opponent (not the lawyers, but the company)? Alicia's husband is the bloody governor! Didn't they think that he can get someone to come in immediately?  What good are her connections, if she doesn't use them for a real issue? I think politicians will be gravitating to trying to prosecute (or make this part of their platform) regarding these types of crimes. They have no IT security specialist in ALL of Chicago that they can call in? As much as I love Kalinda, a person cannot be expert in everything. If hacking was so damn easy, way more people would be trying to scam way more people. 

[ethankoo]

I think I'm in the minority but I don't see a problem with what Alicia did to Elsbeth.  To Alicia, Elsbeth's "quirkiness" is not an illness or a mental condition.  She isn't exploiting her.  Alicia just know from working with her that Elsbeth gets distracted easily, her mind wanders sometimes and often does not finish a thought (just look back at the earlier seasons, some of her scenes just cut off in the middle of her thought).  Alicia just used that to her advantage.  I remember she actually did a similar thing last season with Will.  Will keeps objecting her in court and it made Alicia fumbled a bit in her questioning.  Then Alicia knows she got played and changed to a different dress to distract Will back.  All these are not cruel or mean.  They just know how the others' minds work.   These are just tactics, yes, cheap tactics but it isn't some moral line that Alicia crossed.  The surprising thing is how MUCH easier Elsbeth gets distracted in this episode. 

[needschocolate]

About a month ago, I opened an attachment from a client. - I get attachments from him every month and this one was no different, until I opened it - ransomware.  I didn't get the "we are holding your files for ransom" pop-up.  Instead, it immediately started adding an extension onto my files.  There were a few new files added that gave directions on making a payment to get the encryption key.  I didn't pay them anything - who would give money to a cyberterrorist?  By the time the malware was removed most documents and about half the photos on my hard drive could not be opened.  But I had backed up my hard drive recently, so not really that big of a deal for me.  (By the way, the client has a Mac, I have a PC - Macs are rarely affected by viruses and malware, but they can act as carriers and pass these nasty things onto PCs).  

 

So I could fill up an entire page of this forum with how stupid the ransomware plot was.  But I will limit my rant to this - how are there still viruses and malware in the world when Kalinda - who has shown no computer expertise in the past - is able to hunt down the cyberterrorist in under 2 days?  We know her vagina has incredible superpowers -perhaps it is on wi-fi.

 

There have been signs lately that they are trying to turn this show into a comedy - the guy taking off his shirt in the elevator, the office without walls, Grace's quirky friend dressed as a fairy, etc...  I don't think it is working.  

 

I hope that the next episode starts off like this - 

 

Alicia wakes up and says, "I just had the weirdest dream - Cary and I started out own firm in an office without walls, and there was some guy that kept undressing in the elevator, then Cary got arrested and Diane joined our firm.  Then someone held our files hostage.  Elsbeth was there and there were clowns and kittens.  It was so bizarre - I really need to cut back on the wine."  

 

Then Will walks out of the bathroom and says "Did you say something? I couldn't hear you, I was in the shower."

 

Alicia replies, "Oh my, in my dream you were dead and I was still married to Peter.  And I was running for SA.  What a nightmare!"

 

Then we could go back to real cases and stop the madness.  Of course, if the Kings did go this direction, Kalinda would probably peek out from under the covers and ask "was I in your dream too?"

[Inquisitionist]

We know her vagina has incredible superpowers -perhaps it is on Wi-Fi.

 

 

Spew alert!  I'm now wiping tea off my monitor.

[betsyboo]

Thanks for Elsbeth*, Josh, David Lee, and the 2 second reaction shot between Eli and Elfman after the first Alicia/Peter confrontation.  I rewound that at least 3 times.  But speaking of Shiny Objects, those treats did not distract me from (a) the lack of any mention of Bishop's $$ which, considering that he's unambiguously evil, should merit at least a pause; and (b) the fact that not a single person in Alicia's office commented on her decision to run.  "Good luck at the announcement" would be the least they could do; I mean, some of them have got to have questions about this and yet it's never been discussed!

This x 100000

 

I'm still watching but it is becoming difficult to stay focused.  I keep seeing clowns and ice cream cones and pumpkins while I'm watching because it is so stupid and over the top.  Elsbeth goes from legal savant to idiot because she sees a magazine cover and the AUSA.  Kalinda's magical vagina which gets everything it wishes for but can't seem to come to terms with its sexual orientation.  Eli has morphed from a reasonably believable character into a caricature of a Nervous Nellie.  Cary Agos has become a footnote at his own firm.  And what happened to Robyn?  Remember her?  Did I miss the episode where she left? Possibly I slept through it.

Yup.  ^^

 

Alicia hasn't told her partners that she is running for office?   They have left partnerships at L/G to go with her to a startup, based in large part on her name carrying a big draw for clients.  And now she is hoping to leave them in the lurch without any warning?

 

Where's Robin?  Did they fire her when Kalinda came to work for F/A?

 

Again, yup. ^^

 

Overall, I'd say this episode was a bit of a placeholder - there was not a lot of forward momentum on anything. What's going on with Cary's trial? How did Alicia respond to the drunk-driving allegations? What is she doing about the Bishop-funded PAC? I liked both of the case-of-the-week set-ups (I had no idea that ransom-ware was a thing! Now I have something else to worry about besides ebola), but I think this episode had too many plot threads and didn't serve any of them as well as they deserved.

Yes. I don't need to post since everyone else said what I was thinking.

Maybe they went a little overboard with the Elsbeth hallucinations but NGL, "Here I am, a clown in your head" made me bark with laughter. Bad person am I?

TEE.

[betsyboo]

I would like a show with nothing but Eli's reaction shots.

I wish for this also. It appears all of us posted all of my thoughts before me, saving me the time! Thank you!

[Noreaster]

Guess there's not much love here.  While I also thought this was a weak episode (Elsbeth is really only good in small doses, Diane and the silly ransomware plot, Kalinda's sex life is same old, same old), I love how the show has been writing the Alicia and Peter characters. We're seeing Alicia grow from this naive housewife to a more-than-competent professional and politician in her own right.  Peter could have been this one-dimensional bad character, but he is far more complex.  Bad husband, not-so-ethical politician (but is there really any other type?), but very smart and competent and good in other ways.  Chris Noth really does this character justice.  

 

I hope the show continues to have the courage to write Alicia as unlikable.  She is becoming a very strong character and I enjoy seeing this transformation.