S18.E03: Throwing Stones in Glass Houses

[Art Of Noiz]

4 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I get that but on the other hand, I get pissed whenever people have huge families and put the responsibility for the littles on the older kids. So it would piss me off if Robyn's older kids had lots of childcare duties for the tenders too.

Bottom line is there is no reason Robyn can't care for her own two small kids. The older ones are far enough along that they don't need the level of caretaking that the small ones require. 

My suspicion is that Robyn always had help with her "3 small children". I have this active  imagination, but I'd be willing to bet Biodad's family helped her. She had a stepsister (Mindy's mom) that lived in Pinesdale. As soon as she gets to Lehi, Mykelti gets the honor. Js.

[eskimo]

5 hours ago, margol29 said:

When Kootie and theDark Queen were over at Meri’s discussing Christmas Eve, did anyone else notice the brand new baby swing hanging off the patio? Why does Meri have a baby swing?

Well I'm sure Robyn thinks a regular swing is too dangerous for 5 year old Ari, so Meri got a baby/toddler swing in hopes it'll attract them over???  J/K  😉

[Yeah No]

6 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I don't think Robyn "needs" a nanny at all but, whatever. I wouldn't care that she has one if 1) the family had a ton of money and could really afford it and 2) if they hadn't had such strict protocols in place that it made no sense whatsoever to have someone coming and going from their home during that time. Plus Kody is constantly insisting that he is an active and involved father and then Robyn pops up and says she has to hire someone to help with the kids because Kody is too busy. I mean - lie if you have to but at least be consistent across your lies...

I think Robyn manipulated the nanny out of him in lieu of his being the "active and involved" dad he likes to think he is.  By giving him the option to provide the nanny in his place he can still feel like he's living up to his parenting obligation in both her and his mind.  Whether she needs the nanny or not is not even important and it doesn't even need to be consistent with the other "rules" for her to want one because it feeds his ego to be able to provide it for her and absolves any guilt he might feel because he's still meeting her needs.   She makes herself look to him like someone that needs taking care of, the veritable damsel in distress that he can "rescue" by hiring a nanny.   That takes precedence over all, so the other "rules" can be bent to give her that.

This is in stark contrast to Janelle, who is like the "anti-Robyn" in so many ways.  Janelle has not demanded very much of the Kodimwit thinking this would make him feel better knowing she was able to take the pressure off him by doing both her AND his share of the parenting and other responsibilities in the relationship, but it in effect had the opposite effect on his ego in making him feel not needed and unnecessary.  She gave him no outlet to help her so it only made him feel less powerful and more insignificant.  He is the kind of insecure asshole that constantly needs to have his ego stroked and she wasn't giving that to him.  She acted like the strong independent woman she is (and cheers to her for being so) but to a narcissist that's like telling him she doesn't need him and that he's not the big strong man that can prove his power by rescuing her.  Then when he does find a woman that feeds into all that for him, what does he need with any strong, independent women like Janelle?  And ironically, when Janelle turns around and actually needs him the most he has already bailed on her!  He's already pissed at her for making him feel so small so why would he feel any obligation to help her?  Janelle is the anti-manipulator.  She naively thought that he and Robyn would honor her selfless contributions while instead they have taken her for all she's worth and figuratively left her for dead.

Also, I think those Covid "proticulls" were another Robyn manipulation coming out of her "damsel in distress" act.   She managed to convince him of her (and possibly her kids') physical vulnerability to catching it so once again he sees her and her kids as the damsels he must protect at all costs against illness.  This became a convenient excuse to keep him home away from interacting with the rest of the family and making him put the focus on protecting her and her kids at the expense of his other kids.  We saw that in action in this episode.  As soon as he might consider seeing any of the other kids she reminded him about "how safe" it might be to do so, thus putting the kibosh on it.   He is so snowed by her and his ego so pumped up by being her "rescuer and protector" that he doesn't even care about anyone else.   He has allowed his ego to poison his relationships with just about everyone else in his family including his kids with the other wives.  He is a very sad excuse for a man!

[Elodia]

14 hours ago, 65mickey said:

What I don't understand about Janelle is that for years she was the famiy bookkeeper.

I can't recall what season that was (I assume they all were in Flagstaff at that point), but I remember Kody and Robyn trying to turn Janelle's "job" as the financial "head of the fambly" over to Robyn. Afaik the OG3 were against that idea so I don't know if they followed through. But I've been waiting for this move ever since Robyn became the legal HBIC. 

[65mickey]

Surely to God Meri, Christine and Janelle would not have been naive and trusting enough to do this. If they did this it was after the move to Flagstaff. When they were looking at the 2 properties under consideration Janelle was so excited by Cotton Wood that she said I am tempted to write a check right then for a down payment. She also said last season that she handles the family finances and the family savings account was meant to pay off Coyote Pass and start building and some of the money was going for other things.  She has said a couple of times last season and this season that the finances are in the same place as when they gave Robyn and Christine the money to buy their homes so where is her money?  

 

[Scarlett45]

37 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

Surely to God Meri, Christine and Janelle would not have been naive and trusting enough to do this. If they did this it was after the move to Flagstaff. When they were looking at the 2 properties under consideration Janelle was so excited by Cotton Wood that she said I am tempted to write a check right then for a down payment. She also said last season that she handles the family finances and the family savings account was meant to pay off Coyote Pass and start building and some of the money was going for other things.  She has said a couple of times last season and this season that the finances are in the same place as when they gave Robyn and Christine the money to buy their homes so where is her money?  

 

No to delve too deeply into past episodes- once the show came there was a family pot, and then each wife had her individual money to do with what she wanted. After they sold the Vegas houses, Janelle rented (holding onto her funds to build on Coyote Pass) and when Robyn’s rental was sold and Robyn demanded to buy a house (not on Coyote Pass), Janelle took a bulk of her personal money and put it in the pot for Robyn’s house, (naively) believing once Robyn sold that, it would go towards building up Coyote Pass which would benefit them all. 
 

So unlike Christine and Meri, Janelle has no primary residence building equity. Christine bought when they got to Flagstaff with the proceeds from her Vegas house which was the best thing for her. 

[Kellyee]

If Robyn put her foot down and said she needed a nanny because Kody is worthless when it comes to child care, I have respect for that. That's something that Christine should have done years ago when she was expected to watch 10 kids by herself. Christine waited far too long to take a stand. Robyn and Meri stood up for themselves all along and Christine and Janelle didn't. For example, Meri said her kid was going to eat well regardless of whether Christine and Janelle continued to give birth to more kids than they could feed. 

Christine and Janelle waited until now to stand up for themselves. Kody is having a fit because he is used to them rolling over and taking whatever is offered.

[General Days]

5 hours ago, Elodia said:

I can't recall what season that was (I assume they all were in Flagstaff at that point), but I remember Kody and Robyn trying to turn Janelle's "job" as the financial "head of the fambly" over to Robyn. Afaik the OG3 were against that idea so I don't know if they followed through. But I've been waiting for this move ever since Robyn became the legal HBIC. 

 

The only thing similar to the above that I remember, is that when they were starting up My Sister Wife's Closet (so, this happened early on in Las Vegas), Kody made a point of saying Robyn was the CFO of that business. 

I don't recall them ever mentioning on the show that Robyn took over managing the entire family's finances.

Also, as recently as season 16 or 17, when Janelle expressed her displeasure about Kody's refusal to build on Coyote Pass, she talked about the fact that they had enough money to pay off the property in a way that (at least to me) sounded like she was still keeping the family books.

[Granny58]

17 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

One thing though with Meri is that she was only able to have one child. Then she had to sit there and watch her sister wives have six children each. For a woman who wants children, the pain of infertility can be excruciating. To then also be in the Mormon culture which has such an intense focus on family and children, and also live in the same home with women who have child after child after child for years.... I can't imagine what that was like for her emotionally.

Imagine if Christine had been able to only have one child (knowing she wanted more) while Meri and Janelle each had six. What would Christine be like now?  Would she be happy and fulfilled with her life or might she have some emotional struggles from that? What would Meri be like now, if she had been the mother to six children?  Would she have been so busy being a mother and getting emotional fulfillment from that, that she would never attempt an affair?

What about Janelle? What would her path be like if she had one child. Would she be a career woman, bringing in a big salary while Meri and Christine stayed home?

These scenarios are hypothetical of course but I think its interesting to imagine how the dynamics could be quite different if the roles in this family were reversed. 

let's also remember that Meri's only child is not following a traditional path which in many ways impacts Meri's idea of her own future.  Quite sad.

16 hours ago, Orcinus orca said:

I have my doubts that Kootie was a true believer.  He embraced polygamy to make himself a Big Sexy Man and that religion put him into the role of King of All He Surveyed.  Narcissist love being told that all knowing and all powerful.  The idea of a harem of subservient, adoring women was a major turn on for him.

AMEN!

[HoneyBeach]

12 hours ago, Joan of Argh said:

I don’t see Robyn as obeying Kodys rules or being loyal to Kody out of deep respect or love…. I think she puts up with him and makes him feel special and respected, she’s also trained her kids to do the same because she knows where her bread is buttered.

I think Robyn is just doing whatever it takes to keep her “best customer” happy so she can have the things that are important to her, she’s mentioned more than once how important it is to her to live in a big fancy house so people don’t look down their noses at her like when she was with her ex living in a busted down old trailer, driving rusty old cars, no proper furniture for her kids, charged up bills and in debt up to her eyeballs…. She doesn’t want to work like the other three, she prefers to sleep until noon, have a nanny look after her kids and waltz around like a queen admiring her knick knacks and going to Victoria’s Secret to buy more underwear…. They have the show and Kody adds to that income by selling guns…. Robyn is a lady of leisure in her mansion and doesn’t need to lift a finger.

Kody is a dunce who thinks Robyn and her kids worship the ground he walks on because they love him soooooo much unlike his ex’s and their spawn.

I agree with what you've said here, except I don't think Robyn "obeys" Kody's rules, I mean, they're HER rules. Robyn leads Kody to do what she wants and makes it so he thinks it's what HE wants. So basically, she's just doing what she wanted to do all along but Kody thinks she's obeying his command.

[toomuchtv]

Maybe the nanny should write a tell all!

[oliviabenson]

23 hours ago, TipseyGirl said:

So, I see by the previews for next week that the youngest chicken tender is still using a pacifier. Think she takes it to kindergarten with her? Do Robin and Kootie continually wipe it down with Clorox wipes?

Because they are morons?

Now I’m craving chicken tenders. Lolz

[SemiCharmedLife]

2 hours ago, toomuchtv said:

Maybe the nanny should write a tell all!

I'd rather hear what the nanny says about this  cluster***k than Robyn or Kody.  She can replace those two on the show, as well!

[kassa]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:47 AM, Adeejay said:

I can't get over how furious Kody was with Janelle for not putting Garrison and Gabe in the streets.  If it were up to him, they would be "lost boys".  And yet, he doesn't understand why they don't want anything to do with him.  In the meantime, Dayton is safely ensconced in his own suite at his mother's house.  Make this make sense.  

I think Dayton got banished to a giant private RV in the back yard, which is the worst possible punishment for a teen guy. 

16 hours ago, 65mickey said:

The only reason that Meri did not opt to invite the entire family is that she was still holding onto hope that by catering to Robyn she would earn her way back into Kody's good graces. It's sad that she missed the opportunity to spend Christmas Eve with Janell, Christine and their children. But she did this to herself just like Janelle put her financial future at risk by giving her money to Robyn and Kody and participating in the dumb move to invest money into Coyote Pass.

Sadly, I wonder if she realized the risk of issuing the invitation and having nobody show up was real.  Had she been asked to visit the Christmas rental while the kids were in town, even if not on Christmas day? It would have been kind to invite HER to see THEM on Christmas eve, to still partake of that piece of tradition, even if she wasn't the hostess. It seems unlikely that they'd all travel to get to their destination then pick up and head over to her house once they were all together.

I don't want a book - I want them to start from Season 1 Episode 1 and have Christine and Janelle and whatever adult kids are interested on a big sectional commenting on what was REALLY going on.  Would cost the network close to nothing and I bet it would get higher ratings than most of the last 5 yrs. 

[Scarlett45]

@kassa I took some of my reply to the kids thread- but I think if Meri had texted Christine and Janelle and said “I’d like to continue the Christmas pj tradition with the kids that are in town.”, they would’ve invited her to the rental for the Christmas Eve meal/celebrations. 

[Teri313]

I'm just starting this episode and damn, I'm getting so sick of Kody whining about "grieving" a marriage he didn't give a shit about. Does he not realize that WE COULD SEE what happened, what really happened? I feel like he's living in an alternative reality. And the way he describes his COVID experience - he's clearly exaggerating, a lot. I just want to smack him across the face, Moonstruck style, and tell him to SNAP OUT OF IT.

[UsernameFatigue]

Listening to Robyn drone on about how hard divorce is for Kody was amusing. She has conveniently forgot that Kody did everything but jump and click his heels when he divorced his only legal wife to marry her.  He of course is only upset because Christine left him. And the notion that Kody can't leave a wife? Of course he can, he did it to Meri. And would have been thrilled beyond bits if she had actually left the family, once he had no use for her and she embarrassed him by the cat fishing scandal. 

The other reason Kody is upset it that it brings the gravy train of his dream show showcasing polygamy one step closer to derailing. Chug chug, Kody. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by UsernameFatigue

[Roslyn]

22 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

Forgot to mention, I wonder which of Nathan's wives left his ass - could it have been Meri's sister?  Maybe that made Meri shit AND get off the pot, at long last.

I would be interested in knowing this as well. I have a tidbit of a memory that it was mentioned that he "belongs" to their church but is only married to Meri's sister. I wonder how long the second was with him and whether the one that left is Meri's sister or the "other".

However there is a stark difference between the Nathan we saw officiate Aspyn's wedding, the Nathan we saw on the couch while Kody mansplained hating wimens and that last tidbit of a preview to next week scene of Nathan having a talking head.

51 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Listening to Robyn drone on about how hard divorce is for Kody was amusing. She has conveniently forgot that Kody did everything but jump and click his heals when he divorced his only legal wife to marry her.  He of course is only upset because Christine left him. And the notion that Kody can't leave a wife? Of course he can, he did it to Meri.

Maybe a meme about "quiet quitting" hasn't popped up on Robyn's Pintrest yet.

[KateHearts]

On 9/4/2023 at 10:12 AM, Cherry Styles said:

I don't see how Robin needs a nanny at all. 

 

Her argument that Kody is "gone 75% of the time and that's why I hired help with childcare" doesn't' hold water. First, he was not equally spending time at other wives' houses, as we have been told by both Christine (who only rarely saw him, even pre-COVID) and Meri (who he admitted he had no relationship with for several years prior). And before COVID, why wasn't she relying on the fantastic SW way of living to help her out (when all the sister wives pitch in to help with kids)? Nevermind that she DID NOT WORK.

 

So Kody demanded an apology from the lying sons for going to work and socializing during the pandemic, thus disallowing him from seeing them.  The apology demand was to be relayed to the boys by Janelle (how nice. Imagine telling your kids "DAD says he won't see you because you broke HIS rules!") But then he "CORRECTED THAT" (his words) so it was Janelle's responsibility (again) to tell them that he changed his mind. And she was supposed to facilitate them "having a conversation" so they could spend Christmas together?

Kody, newsflash: your kids are young adults but you are STILL the father and you are the one who basically alienated them from you. If you want to mend things so badly, don't put Janelle in the middle, don't just "sit there" (they love that phrase) waiting for them to call you. How about picking up the phone and saying "hey, I miss you guys. Let's talk." The fact that he can't do that speaks to his pride and stubbornness.  He could open the door if he wanted to; he doesn't want to.

Meri is pathetic. She basically mopes in her talking heads that she is fully aware that she is considered a nobody in Kody's eyes; then she goes over to his house (relegated to the yard) and panders to his narcissistic demands and bends over backwards to (please!) earn a seat at their table. She allows herself to be in this humiliating position. She doesn't have to.

[Elizzikra]

6 hours ago, Kellyee said:

For example, Meri said her kid was going to eat well regardless of whether Christine and Janelle continued to give birth to more kids than they could feed. 

That really goes against the idea of them being one family though. If they really acted as one family, everyone’s nutrition would have been the same regardless of who birthed them. 

[Adeejay]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

The other reason Kody is upset it that it brings the gravy train of his dream show showcasing polygamy one step closer to derailing. Chug chug, Kody. 

Poor Kody!  He is finally coming to the startling realization that the world doesn’t revolve around him.  Imagine that.

[xwordfanatik]

Well, IMO it's way overdue for the toxic duo to finally get their comeuppance.  They rilly do deserve each other.  Misery loves company.

Sobbyn's kids will never be free of her dominance and live their own lives.

[Auntie Freeze]

There's no way Meri would have been invited or wanted by Christine and/or Janelle at that point in time. She (according to what we're seeing) was only just beginnning to acknowledge the actual Big Pitcher but they'd not seen that in her yet. All they'd seen was her backing up Sobbyn at every opportunity.

Now, if she began to see the truth after watching last season and IF she DM'd Christine to say "I see now and I'm sorry and I'd very much like to keep in touch going forward if you ever want that" then maybe she'd get a Xmas eve invite for 2022 after a year of slow building. And maybe Meri needed that last Xmas with the Dynamic Duo to really build the resolve to make a change and GTFO.

[Joan of Argh]

As others have said I think it’s very telling when Meri, Kody and Robyn were standing around in Meri’s backyard and the subject of inviting the family came up Robyn immediately spoke up about how that was a scary idea or whatever…. Robyn doesn’t want them included, she’s got exactly what she wants, her family having Christmas with Kody… it’s what she’s always wanted and she’s finally made it happen after years of effort…. The last thing she wants is for Meri to invite the family to her house and god forbid everyone has a nice time and there’s no “blow up” between Kody and his boys.

[LilyD]

On 9/4/2023 at 6:37 PM, Shelbie said:

I wonder how often Janelle kicks herself for leaving Las Vegas for Arizona.

I believe her when she talks about her religious beliefs and the family as a whole. She is now 50 with a fractured family and little financial assets.

If she had stayed she and her children would have seen Kody as much as they have in Arizona but she would have a ton of equity in her house.

From a financial point of view and how it wrecked the entire family? A lot! Probably at least 10 times a day.

However, Janelle wasn’t overly fond of Vegas and struggled immensely with the heat. She seemed genuinely in love with Flagstaff and its surroundings so from that point of view, I don’t think she minded the move. 

[TaxNerd]

On 9/4/2023 at 2:55 PM, xwordfanatik said:

Forgot to mention, I wonder which of Nathan's wives left his ass - could it have been Meri's sister?  Maybe that made Meri shit AND get off the pot, at long last.

Interesting timing, especially since their mother always took the husband's side but had recently passed at this point

[OlderThanDirt]

I still think they all had Adjustable Rate Mortgages on the Vegas houses that had balloon payments coming due that they didn't want to meet even if they could have.  So they cashed out the equity they had built up because of the timing of the housing market. Christine had getting out in mind when she bought a house in Flagstaff. Giving back the CP property was a no brainer because she knew she'd never see any of that money. Janelle should buy a house with her two youngest sons by getting back the money she gave K&R to buy their house. Assuming that they all want to stay in the Flagstaff area and Savannah can go to NAU.

I don't believe Meri lives in that house,  it's probably a short term rental she occasionally uses for filming to access her share of the TLC money. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

So they cashed out the equity they had built up because of the timing of the housing market.

I don't think there was much except what they got from the increased value of the homes from the time they bought to the time they sold. With any mortgage, ARM or conventional, the first ... ten years worth of payments at least go to interest.

[Bmglmr]

4 hours ago, KateHearts said:

So Kody demanded an apology from the lying sons for going to work and socializing during the pandemic, thus disallowing him from seeing them.  The apology demand was to be relayed to the boys by Janelle (how nice. Imagine telling your kids "DAD says he won't see you because you broke HIS rules!") But then he "CORRECTED THAT" (his words) so it was Janelle's responsibility (again) to tell them that he changed his mind. And she was supposed to facilitate them "having a conversation" so they could spend Christmas together?

💯% this ^^^^ It absolutely boggles the mind that Kodisha continues to blame Janelle for driving a wedge between he and his sons yet he has done exactly zero to try and mend fences. It is not her job to fix your relationships with your adult children. And honestly, if Janelle isn’t “supporting him” as he claims, all the more reason to speak to them directly. 

[ginger90]

2 hours ago, OlderThanDirt said:

I still think they all had Adjustable Rate Mortgages on the Vegas houses that had balloon payments coming due that they didn't want to meet even if they could have.  So they cashed out the equity they had built up because of the timing of the housing market. Christine had getting out in mind when she bought a house in Flagstaff. Giving back the CP property was a no brainer because she knew she'd never see any of that money. Janelle should buy a house with her two youngest sons by getting back the money she gave K&R to buy their house. Assuming that they all want to stay in the Flagstaff area and Savannah can go to NAU.

I don't believe Meri lives in that house,  it's probably a short term rental she occasionally uses for filming to access her share of the TLC money. 

The balloon payment theory has been debunked.

Janelle’s son Garrison owns his own home.

Meri lived there up until recently. It has since been rented to someone else.

 

 

[Absolom]

23 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

Also at this time (Nov/Dec 2021) Solomon was 10 years old. 

I know that "the tenders" is now treated as a joke, but truly Kody had no tenders any more.

[Orcinus orca]

38 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I know that "the tenders" is now treated as a joke, but truly Kody had no tenders any more.

Does using a pacifier make on a "tender"?  If so, Areola will be a tender until she's married.

[mythoughtis]

Janelle referenced Kody’s Teflon Queen comment during the fight. The fight occurred December 2021. The Teflon Queen episode aired in Jan 2022. That episode was when Gabe, Garrison and Kody were in the woods and Kody treated his sons so badly.  I wonder how far in advance the TH are done for a particular episode?  I wonder if it was just before  this fight and that’s why Janelle’s temper finally kicked in? Then there’s the fact that he had forgotten Gabe’s birthday, who was badly hurt by it.  We didn’t know that yet, but she did.    Don’t rile Mama Bear. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by mythoughtis

[LilyD]

10 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I don't think there was much except what they got from the increased value of the homes from the time they bought to the time they sold. With any mortgage, ARM or conventional, the first ... ten years worth of payments at least go to interest.

About 80-120k per house. Only Robyn’s house went for almost 150k more. But… that’s based on the price they bought them for.  You usually have to invest a lot more to make it move in ready and liveable. Not to mention the costs of landscaping the front and back yard. Also, it took them more than a year to sell them all. All that time they had double costs due to the ongoing mortgages and expensive rentals. A perfect way to quickly burn through their equity if you ask me.

[General Days]

19 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

And the notion that Kody can't leave a wife? Of course he can, he did it to Meri. And would have been thrilled beyond bits if she had actually left the family, once he had no use for her and she embarrassed him by the cat fishing scandal. 

The other reason Kody is upset it that it brings the gravy train of his dream show showcasing polygamy one step closer to derailing. Chug chug, Kody. 

 

I think, in their religion (which I realize they don't all practice these days), it's really sort of forbidden for the man to leave. So I think Janelle was spot on in her accusation that he was trying to push them all out, so that they'd do the leaving.

Legally divorcing Meri didn't end their spiritual marriage. These people (maybe other than the legal wife at the time) don't put the kind of stock in the legal marriage that they do in spiritual marriage, although I do think Kody ended it his heart (maybe even before the catfish -- like when he stopped sleeping with her a couple of years prior to the catfish).

I just remember him saying, "I don't want that judgment on me," about ending marriages. I think it's mostly his enormous but paper-thin ego he's protecting, plus he wants to leave the door open, in case he wants to return to the faith.

 

18 hours ago, Roslyn said:

I would be interested in knowing this as well. I have a tidbit of a memory that it was mentioned that he "belongs" to their church but is only married to Meri's sister. I wonder how long the second was with him and whether the one that left is Meri's sister or the "other".

However there is a stark difference between the Nathan we saw officiate Aspyn's wedding, the Nathan we saw on the couch while Kody mansplained hating wimens and that last tidbit of a preview to next week scene of Nathan having a talking head.

Maybe a meme about "quiet quitting" hasn't popped up on Robyn's Pintrest yet.

 

I think Nathan is still married to Meri's sister, and he divorced the other wife. It seems to me Mykelti indicated that in her S18E03 watch party, last night.

 

16 hours ago, Auntie Freeze said:

There's no way Meri would have been invited or wanted by Christine and/or Janelle at that point in time. She (according to what we're seeing) was only just beginnning to acknowledge the actual Big Pitcher but they'd not seen that in her yet. All they'd seen was her backing up Sobbyn at every opportunity.

Now, if she began to see the truth after watching last season and IF she DM'd Christine to say "I see now and I'm sorry and I'd very much like to keep in touch going forward if you ever want that" then maybe she'd get a Xmas eve invite for 2022 after a year of slow building. And maybe Meri needed that last Xmas with the Dynamic Duo to really build the resolve to make a change and GTFO.

 

Christine isn't even going to be in town until after Christmas Day. Meri would have to approach Janelle.

I do kind of wish Janelle and Meri had kept working on their relationship, during the Covid era. They had one scene in Flagstaff (where they discussed access to Plague Pond), in which they did seem to try to employ the skills they'd developed, but since then, it's been nothing.

Christine and Janelle are the "fun" combination and so easy to root for, but I would enjoy watching Meri and Janelle continue their efforts to work through all their shit.

 

13 hours ago, ginger90 said:

The balloon payment theory has been debunked.

 

How was the balloon payment theory (for the Vegas houses) been debunked, Ginger?

After the last time I recall it being mentioned here, I do remember someone here saying they had 30-year fixed mortgages, but they just said it (like they didn't cite an episode or an article or something). All I can remember, when they were buying the Vegas properties, is the talk that they needed to pursue non-traditional financing.

[65mickey]

 I remember that also but wasn't something said to them either by the mortgage broker or the real estate  agent that after a few years they would need to obtain traditional mortgages? 

[ginger90]

20 minutes ago, General Days said:

 

 

 

How was the balloon payment theory (for the Vegas houses) been debunked, Ginger?

After the last time I recall it being mentioned here, I do remember someone here saying they had 30-year fixed mortgages, but they just said it (like they didn't cite an episode or an article or something). All I can remember, when they were buying the Vegas properties, is the talk that they needed to pursue non-traditional financing.

I can’t include much of the info here, but these are Robyn and Christine’s. They used a mortgage company.

Ill send you the link to it if you’d like.

[Granny58]

1 hour ago, General Days said:

Kody ended it his heart (maybe even before the catfish -- like when he stopped sleeping with her a couple of years prior to the catfish).

AND THEN IS PISSED WHEN SHE FELL FOR SOMEBODY OFFERING AFFECTION!!!  I will NEVER EVER not blame him for this.  😡  There certainly are rules about relationships, but when hurting a lot of people don't have that strength.  

[Teri313]

2 hours ago, General Days said:

I just remember him saying, "I don't want that judgment on me," about ending marriages. I think it's mostly his enormous but paper-thin ego he's protecting, plus he wants to leave the door open, in case he wants to return to the faith.

Which is so damn easy when you have other marriages to flee to for what you need. The women don't have that luxury. Why can't he see that???

[islandgal140]

I really do hope that Meri is  still there because of the money. She has got 3 sources of income and really the show feeds the other two. Her being a D list reality celeb is a boost, no matter how low tier. Otherwise, she would be like every other middle American trying to sell ugly patterned remnants passing as new clothes on the interwebs. 

Meri gave Kody the biggest ding to his ego he has probably ever had - she was gonna leave him for what she thought was a better man. Doesn't matter that it turned out to be fake, the intention was clearly there.  They circled the wagons and let her push the lie that 'he' was just a friend, but no one with sense believed that shit, except that maybe Meri started to believe her own lie. Womp womp. No way he was taking her back. 

I don't believe that Robyn is some great manipulator or plays 4D chess, but you don't have to be with these rubes. I believe Robyn is good at planting seeds and making Kody (and maybe even Meri) think that her nudging them in the direction she wants was their original idea. I never believed that the divorce was Meri's idea. I think even Kody believes that the protoculls are his idea.  I am waiting with bated breath for one of them to say that not inviting the kids to Meri's annual xmas eve pajama jammy jam was Meri's idea. 

Garrison and Gabe are 100% correct that the protoculls are all Robyn!

On 9/5/2023 at 3:03 AM, Yeah No said:

Also, I think those Covid "proticulls" were another Robyn manipulation coming out of her "damsel in distress" act.   She managed to convince him of her (and possibly her kids') physical vulnerability to catching it so once again he sees her and her kids as the damsels he must protect at all costs against illness.  This became a convenient excuse to keep him home away from interacting with the rest of the family and making him put the focus on protecting her and her kids at the expense of his other kids.  We saw that in action in this episode.  As soon as he might consider seeing any of the other kids she reminded him about "how safe" it might be to do so, thus putting the kibosh on it.   He is so snowed by her and his ego so pumped up by being her "rescuer and protector" that he doesn't even care about anyone else.   He has allowed his ego to poison his relationships with just about everyone else in his family including his kids with the other wives.  He is a very sad excuse for a man!

I didn't need any proof that the protoculls were Robyn's but I got it when we all learned that Meri had been keeping to them but still not allowed to come over and visit the tenders. When Meri expressed this on screen, Kody later went to Robyn and asked her permission, yes permission, if it would be alright to let Meri come over. Robyn prevaricated and tried another excuse saying something to the effect that it would offend the other wives and family if only Meri were allowed to the mcmansion. I think in the end Robyn only allowed it because it was brought up on camera and would make her look bad look even worse if she didn't. 

 

20 hours ago, Adeejay said:

Poor Kody!  He is finally coming to the startling realization that the world doesn’t revolve around him.  Imagine that.

And all at the tender age of 54.

Edited September 6, 2023 by islandgal140

[Teri313]

4 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

I don't believe that Robyn is some great manipulator or plays 4D chess, but you don't have to be with these rubes.

Yup, and that's why we can see her doing it right in front of us. If she was a genius, we'd never know.

[Shelbie]

27 minutes ago, Teri313 said:

Which is so damn easy when you have other marriages to flee to for what you need. The women don't have that luxury. Why can't he see that???

He can see it. He doesn’t care.
Polygamy is set up for men not women. 

[ezzy4]

On 9/3/2023 at 10:14 PM, sparrowthebrave said:

Wait…. Kody and Robyn were never vaccinated?? Okay I’m shocked. Unless they have a medical reason I cannot believe they would afford themselves that bit of protection when they were so determined not to get it! I say this as an immunocompromised person, btw, who got like 6 vaxxes…. 

I CAN NOT even PRETEND to be surprised they aren't vaxed.  Dear LORD they are horrible people.

[dariafan]

How does kootie head think the family would fit in Robyn’s house ???

[ezzy4]

On 9/4/2023 at 11:34 AM, Dobian said:

All Kodvid cares about is loyalty and submission.  Bow to his rules and authority.  There is no love from him, no empathy, no compassion.  He has no problem abandoning his own kids if they don't worship the ground he walks on.  Forget the wives, they chose to be with him.  But the kids didn't, and his behavior toward them has been monstrous.  And he is such a narcissist, incapable of seeing that he is the common denominator in every single bad relationship in that family.

I think you hit the nail on the head. There is no way this family could have survived longterm.  Kody only wanted disciples/ followers.  Everything was fine when the children were young and willing to sit and listen to his "family meetings" and Sunday preachings.

He has no need or interest in relationships with grown fully formed adults who have their own views and opinions 

[ezzy4]

1) i agree with many of the other posts about Meri.  To summarize my thoughts: i don't hate Meri.  She's been in a "no win" situation since she married Kody.  Polygamy does not favor women; especially women who cannot bare children.  I imagine she always struggle to try to find her worth in that dysfunction.  I don't condone her actions but i think they were the actions of someone desperate.  When she brought Robyn in the family she did it to try to gain some power by teaming up with Robyn.  It backfired badly.  And then her attempts to leave the family backfired badly too by being devastatingly catfished.  That woman has been through hell.  She looks and acts out like it too.

2) robyn has overplayed her hand.  I think she wanted to be the QUEEN BEE, not the ONLY BEE in the hive.  Damn, that is a tough life she has set up for herself.  

[islandgal140]

29 minutes ago, ezzy4 said:

2) robyn has overplayed her hand.  I think she wanted to be the QUEEN BEE, not the ONLY BEE in the hive.  Damn, that is a tough life she has set up for herself.  

I used to believe but after that fireside chat this episode in Meri's backyard when Robyn actively and obviously put the kibosh on the whole family being invited for Meri's xmas eve pajama jammy jam, I am not so sure. 

[Roslyn]

4 hours ago, 65mickey said:

 I remember that also but wasn't something said to them either by the mortgage broker or the real estate  agent that after a few years they would need to obtain traditional mortgages? 

There were two separate mortgage discussions during the process. The original houses/lots that they looked at, when discussing wanting houses right next to each other (Robyn at some point mentioned a cul de sac). It was the same little gated community but the opposite end.  Two houses were already up on two lots and the other two lots in the cul de sac were empty. For them to secure all four they had to move very fast and the woman who was the mortgage broker told them that they did not have time for the pre qualify process for conventional mortgages. She then told them that yes, they could get the financing but it would be 40% up front for each parcel/house. That shut them down right quick.

Not long after they switched sides of the community and looked at the opposite side, also a cul de sac with 4 empty parcels ready to build. That is when Mona told them they could take the time to qualify for conventional mortgages (which they did) and the whole "puttin' down earnest money" discussions began. Then the Robyn credit story leading to all of them managing to qualify.

In the process to get the builder going they needed the pre-qualify letters and cash money down to start everything, but a short window to actually then get the mortgages approved to close on the houses. If that didn't happen the builder could take the house and sell it to someone else and they would lose their money that they put down.

[ezzy4]

22 minutes ago, islandgal140 said:

I used to believe but after that fireside chat this episode in Meri's backyard when Robyn actively and obviously put the kibosh on the whole family being invited for Meri's xmas eve pajama jammy jam, I am not so sure. 

Oh I think it was her intent to be the QUEEN BEE but as things are falling apart, she is bitter and just wants to WIN. ("Win" what?  I'm not sure she even knows.  Having Kody all to yourself with no income streams from the other wives isn't a WIN in anyones mind.)

[laurakaye]

On 9/4/2023 at 2:19 AM, surfgirl said:

Yeah, Atlas, carrying his family on his back, with a knife sticking out of his kidneys. 🙄

I think this is exactly how Kody sees himself, as delusional as he is - the long-suffering patriarch of a family that doesn't even respect him, shouldering the load of his family's perceived wrongs, and all the while, knives are sticking out of every orifice the man has.  No wonder he's always on the verge of a rage-induced breakdown.

On 9/4/2023 at 5:27 PM, bichonblitz said:

So according to Kody you only deserve his love if you show him respect, obey his wishes and treat him like King of the Hill. He thinks Robyn is that person that fulfills all his  demands. Boy, does she know how to play him. 

Yes, you have to obey the Headship if you want to earn an ounce of his love, using his rules - BUT, if you come too close, he simply changes the rules and forgets to tell you - see also: Janelle and Kody's Covid argument.  He insisted she wasn't following his rules but she threw back that he hadn't bothered to give her his rules until November of 2020.  Kody treats his family like a child losing at checkers - he just picks up the gameboard and tosses it in the air so no one can play.

On 9/5/2023 at 10:22 AM, HoneyBeach said:

I agree with what you've said here, except I don't think Robyn "obeys" Kody's rules, I mean, they're HER rules. Robyn leads Kody to do what she wants and makes it so he thinks it's what HE wants. So basically, she's just doing what she wanted to do all along but Kody thinks she's obeying his command.

1,000,000%.  

21 hours ago, Joan of Argh said:

Robyn doesn’t want them included, she’s got exactly what she wants, her family having Christmas with Kody… it’s what she’s always wanted and she’s finally made it happen after years of effort.

I think what she rilly wants is for her, Kody and the Tenders™ to enjoy a warm and cozy Christmas, while the rest of the family stands outside in the cold, faces pressed to the windows, waiting for Robyn to potentially call them in to partake in the festivities.  I know it grinds her eyebrows that Christine and Janelle joined forces to have a blast at an AirBNB with their kids.  How can they envy what she has if they're not even around?  

And hold up - Nathan is married to Meri's sister?  Nathan gives me the straight-up creeps, sorry.  I can see why he and Kody are besties.