S03.E11: Mom City

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

The look between Sam and Rebecca during the 'team watching the movie' scene .... was there a message from the movie I was supposed to read into that or are they still lightly teasing a possible Rebecca/Sam endgame?

You've Got Mail is about Meg Ryan's character and Tom Hank's character anonymously emailing each other back in the early Internet days when new Windows PCs automatically installed AOL when you booted them up.
IRL Ryan and Hank's characters are enemies because Hank's character owns a burgeoning book store chain while Ryan's character runs a small book store with a lot of character and history that is driven out of business by Hank's business.
But through both the anonymous emails and chance meetings IRL, they fall in love. [which makes as much sense as the Nate arc on Ted Lasso]
So: When the email pen-pals decide to meet IRL and discover they are each other's frenemies whom they have also come to "love" IRL [again, makes no sense] Meg Ryan says "I wanted it to be you."  🥲😭
And so: Sam and Rebecca just exchanged a sweet mutual glance that said: Just like us when we first discovered who we had been chatting with. 
I don't think it's going any where else, but what do I know? 
I thought this was the finale, LOL!

Interesting that the show's message has always been about how Forgiveness Serves The Forgiver, but so far the audience is still not budging WRT forgiving Nate. 
Maybe that's why there's another episode. 

Anyway, I did think this was a great episode, and would've been okay with it being the last (leave something to the viewers' imaginations) even with the one odd bit of Jamie's mom being weirdly MILFish at the same time she was a fount of therapy.

 

 

[Crs97]

9 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Interesting that the show's message has always been about how Forgiveness Serves The Forgiver, but so far the audience is still not budging WRT forgiving Nate. 
Maybe that's why there's another episode. 

To quote a character on a different show, “ I love my grudges. I tend to them like little pets.” 😉

I love forgiveness and second chances.  I also love boundaries and natural consequences, of which Nate has yet to experience IMO.  I’ve had to end too many toxic friendships to wink and smile at this one ending in rainbows and unicorns.  Next week better bring it because I have yet to see Nate acknowledge anyone else’s hurt but his own.

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Crs97

[Thalia]

The decision to have Ted use the F word repeatedly with his mom was meant to shock us since I don't think we've ever seen him use anything stronger than "doody."   But as someone who grew up in a state similar to Kansas, in a family probably similar to Ted's (although my sweet dad lived to 93), I just thought it was such a wrong choice.  It didn't shock me as much as make me wince. 

Particularly since, in this particular situation, Dottie wasn't the only one at fault.  It has been at least 30 years since Mr. Lasso committed suicide.  Ted has been an adult for a long time and he wasn't talking to her either.  

[bourbon]

So, this show is really going to go with a Keeley, "I choose me" ending? Fuuuuuuuuuck. 

[Trillium]

35 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Thinking about when Jamie interrupted Roy and Keeley…it certainly looked like Roy was going to declare his love.   I am not sure it looked like Keeley was going to reciprocate.  

I think it’s likely a misdirect to keep us guessing. She seemed quite upset when Roy came to her office with a “we need to talk” like worried he was going to go away again. I think she wants him to be fully committed if they get back together.

It would certainly be an original ending for the main couple for most of the series to seem like they get back together in the waning episodes and then say in the finale “nah, fuck that and fuck all the previous seasons and their lovely relationship, they are done forever” without making a good case why they are better off apart. I feel it would go the HIMYM route of terrible finales if they did that. You can’t spend that much time on a couple, tease a reconciliation and then yank the rug out. I mean they could but I would hope there’s some self awareness there that most people would hate that ending for them. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Trillium

[marceline]

11 hours ago, dmeets said:

Colin, Beard, and the entire team forgives Nate despite never getting any sort of apology so apparently that makes me the asshole for not wanting an instant second chance, but wanting to see some penance and an actual redemption arc rather than being told how I should feel. But I will give Nate credit for not being at all upset at Jade for getting him fired.

I'll be an asshole with you. They took Nate someplace dark. We watched him do despicable things. Maybe the characters can forgive him but I can't. I've seen nothing that makes me want Nate to be happy. This redemption is entirely unearned.

[MissLucas]

I absolutely loved this episode despite its many flaws. It hit home hard on certain points in a way that well-written shows can without even trying, so I'm forgiving the not so well-written parts. Some random thoughts:

• I might be willing to forgive Nate but I'm still pissed at Dani who can go fuck himself with his cheery attitude, we've all seen the truth: you're a fucking psychopath. Yeah, I still have work to do myself.
• Had to google Mae's poem. It's 'There Be The Verse' by Philip Larkin.
• Glad Keeley ditched those pink fashion crimes for footwear better suited for gum-shoeing. Had to laugh at her trying to be sneaky and hiding behind cars while wearing a bright pink coat. Meanwhile Roy just walked on like Richard Ashcroft in 'Bitter Sweet Symphony'.
• Loved Roy's face during Jamie's breakdown and basically through all the scenes at Jamie's home.
• Keely dragging Roy away from Mama Tart's inviting embrace.
• Van Damme was a brick wall and deserved more praise.
• Rebecca turning Leslie's head so he could see Jamie score was priceless.
• Getting Guardiola to make a cameo? I'm almost as impressed as Beard was.

I'll miss this show.

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by MissLucas

[mledawn]

Loved Roy and Beard’s discussion on the pitch about Jamie:

“I’m fine with him playing hurt - I played hurt most of my career.”

”YOU CAN’T WALK UP STAIRS!”

Loved Barbara mowing down on an apple as Roy shows up, “Are you here to fix the pipes?” - she is underused.

I also loved how you see Ted has taken the good parts of his mum to make his own: the folksy jokes, and the storytelling, but with truth.

Nate’s redemption tour is too short and too rushed, but I love how it was a conduit to discovering Beard’s backstory. 
But Beard showing up at Nate’s front door and still no apology from Nate? Ugh. Also, of course Nate would be a wonder kid as a server [eyeroll]. 

[dmeets]

26 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I'm still pissed at Dani who can go fuck himself with his cheery attitude, we've all seen the truth: you're a fucking psychopath

Yeah I'm a bit bothered that Dani sees nothing wrong with what he did. But with the exception of Jamie, Sam, Colin, and maybe Isaac, the teammates are 2-dimensional caricatures, so it doesn't surprise me. We were supposed to laugh that Dani's golden retriever persona was briefly infected by rabies and then acted like nothing ever happened, and chuckle that Van Damme is still traumatized weeks later (though luckily it hasn't affected his gameplay). Maybe next week they'll surprise me, but aside from the four I mentioned everyone else is just comic relief so I doubt it.

The more I think about Colin and Isaac being the ones to join Will in asking Nate back to the team (without any approval from the coaches or owner so apparently Isaac gets a lot of power as the captain?) the more I get annoyed. It seems like it was intentionally those two to remind us that they were the ones bullying Nate in the beginning. That Nate doesn't owe them an apology, it's the other way around. Like the writers were hitting me upside the head saying "so what if Nate gave a confidence-crippling speech to Colin? What Colin did to him was sooo much worse! Nate doesn't owe him shit!"

Also is Nate ever going to find out what Ted did with the photo? That not only was he an asshole, but he was a paranoid delusional asshole who went scorched earth for no reason whatsoever?

[xhoipolloix]

Ted and Beard being the second string punter and kicker in college gives me life.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

You can tell Ted Lasso is purely fictional, because the entire club practically begging Nate to come back would never happen in real life.  Ever. 

Even being fiction, I don't care how strongly Ted's presence and morality has effected them, its just utterly unrealistic to expect everyone welcoming someone like Nate back with open arms.  That's a hard ask for an audience to accept and not have reservations over.

[LADreamr]

4 hours ago, AD55 said:

I loved the episode, so long as I don't try to make sense of it in the context of the series. In You've Got Mail, Meg Ryan's character tells her ex that there isn't someone else, but there's the dream of someone else (or words to that effect). That's my overall response to this season of TL. That's also how I feel about that movie, BTW. It could have been good were it not for that whole falling-in-love-with-a-corporate-asshole-who destroyed-your beautiful-independent [children's!]-bookstore travesty. Have a little self-respect, Meg!

Seriously.  Also, I've seen the movie several times, but have never thought of it as a tear-jerker.  Or rather, it's never had that effect on me.  The most genuine part of the movie for me, was Meg Ryan saying to Tom Hanks, after hearing his "It's not personal, it's business," bs for the millionth time, "what's so wrong with something being personal?  Whatever else something is, it should start by being personal." Which I actually think is the better message to connect to this show.  Everything was about the personal aspect, much more than the stats for Ted, from the beginning.

[bosawks]

I think I've finally accepted Nate's redemption by just making it an example of "nice people do nice things".

 

[AD55]

32 minutes ago, LADreamr said:

Seriously.  Also, I've seen the movie several times, but have never thought of it as a tear-jerker.  Or rather, it's never had that effect on me.  The most genuine part of the movie for me, was Meg Ryan saying to Tom Hanks, after hearing his "It's not personal, it's business," bs for the millionth time, "what's so wrong with something being personal?  Whatever else something is, it should start by being personal." Which I actually think is the better message to connect to this show.  Everything was about the personal aspect, much more than the stats for Ted, from the beginning.

I love that part, too, and I agree it's more relevant to the show. I think Meg may even say something like "when people say that, what they mean is it's not personal to them." Hanks talks like a mob boss in that scene.

[EtheltoTillie]

I say this show is a fairy tale, and I'm sticking to it. I love it!  Warts and all. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by EtheltoTillie

[ichbin]

I think this was the best episode of the season so far (which I thought seemed to have lost its way somewhat at the beginning). 

 

36 minutes ago, LADreamr said:

I've seen the movie several times, but have never thought of it as a tear-jerker.  

Not a tear jerker in the typical sense but I will admit that any time I feel I need a good cathartic cry I put on the last 10 minutes of You've Got Mail and have at it.  It never fails to open the floodgates.  

I am going to miss this show!

[EtheltoTillie]

Someone mentioned above that Ted hadn't talked to his mother for years, but I'm not sure that was the case.  I just think they hadn't talked about important things--not that they were estranged.  Maybe that's what you meant also. 

[Night Cheese]

I remain at best, indifferent to the Nate storyline, and at worst unhappy with it, but I did like the very subtle bit where Nate quietly admitted that he said "wonder kid" after the Taste of Athens patron recognized him as "Wonder Kid". He's remained adamant before now that he said "wunderkind", whenever someone says "wonder kid". Thinking about it now, knowing that he was a genius/prodigy/whatever (eyeroll), that may have played into his insistence that he used the correct term. Certainly a genius wouldn't make that mistake. Or something like that.

[MissLucas]

There were some really subtle moments in this episode. When Ted brought mum along the realization on Rebecca's face who the crazy talking lady was was wonderful to behold. I almost expected her to blurt out: 'Oh, here's the manual!' Hannah Waddingham played that beautifully.

Also: I'm with Ted. 'Sleepless in Seattle' is better. Never understood the charm of 'You've got Mail' - it's freaking not-quite-Amazon destroying your favorite little bookshop.

Edited May 24, 2023 by MissLucas

[Quickbeam]

Still hate Nate. Don’t care that he’s a “genius”. 
 

Love Jamie and his mother. Their physicality could have been creepy but felt so real. When I was a social worker I saw a lot of teen moms and kids have that kind of intimate closeness. 
 

Roy really is a fixer. He can’t walk away from an open wound like Jamie. Sweet.

As the credits ran I’m reminding myself this was a comedy.

[Crs97]

50 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Never understood the charm of 'You've got Mail' - it's freaking Amazon destroying your favorite little bookshop.

Actually, I think of it as Barnes & Noble or Borders Bookstore destroying the little bookshops and find the movie shows its age considering Amazon killed one of those.

I love Meg’s “it wasn’t personal to you and shouldn’t business begin by being personal?”  The only part of the movie that makes me well up is her saying closing the bookstore feels like losing her mother all over again . .  . and now I’m blinking hard again.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Crs97

[Jeddah]

Sam and Rebecca’s handles (LDN152 and Bossgirl) on Bantr were both You’ve Got Mail references too. I don’t know if we’re meant to think Sam and Rebecca chose them for that reason

Edited May 24, 2023 by Jeddah

[DearEvette]

My experience with this season is consistent in that I continue to feel that  this is a wildly inconsistent season for me.  I'll like one episode and be meh or dislike the next and then really like the next one  -- it is a see-saw. 

This episode was meh for me.  The heavy handed heartfelt is smothering the comedy where before there used to be a good balance.

The stuff I did like:

• "You need to the be prickiest prick you have ever been in your little prick life."  I love Roy.
• Jamie crying and not using conditioner because ‘what's the point?’
• The poster of Roy.  If that were made available as merch I would totally buy it!
• I think I lost it when Beard started rapping Slick Rick’s ’s 'La-di-da-di'.  It is really one of the best story-telling songs to rap along to! And it is just about a guy getting dressed to go out for the night.
• Agree with Ted about Sleepless in Seattle being superior.  I am so indifferent to You’ve Got Mail. I would have totally been Keeley, falling asleep.
• So has Jamie said ‘Poop-eh’ in every episode since they had their field trip to the sewers?  I swear I think so.
• Rupert's disgruntled women having a summit.  Will I at least get my Rupert punishment wish?
• "I stole a loaf of meth." Bwah!

But those were little moments in what felt like an overall bit of a downer and they are still, imo, no better in resolving the two biggest problems of the whole season: Nate and Keeley.

I am so confused why they are back-tracking on Roy and Keeley.  I was such a devotee of their romance and thought it was so well done and maturely written and so very refreshing from how so many romances are written in tv shows.  And Then they did us like this!  And now we are not even sure they are back together or going to get back together.  Like Jamie said about hair conditioner, what is the point?  At this point I don't even care if they get back together any longer.  That is how much they harshed my glow on this couple.

And then there is Nate.  One of the reasons I am still in the camp that is not buying this is because when they decided to make Nate a villain, they showed their work.  They did it deliberately, piece by piece, gray hair by gray hair.  But now that they want to redeem him they are not doing the same thing in reverse.  It is like that character on Ally McBeal who wants everything forgiven with a simple 'Bygones!' and we are supposed to be fine.  I could have been on board with a Nate redemption if they had also 'shown their work' with him redressing what he did.  And, even worse, what little they are showing, Nate isn't even the one doing the heavy lifting.  Everyone else is putting in the work for his redemption.

The team went to him to ask him back.  Beard went to him to offer him the job.  Jade got him fired so he would be forced to move out of his comfort zone.  All Nate is doing is standing there being pitiful.  It was very telling that when the team came to say they wanted him back, it looked like he was entertaining the idea until he learned that Ted wasn't the one that sent them.  So in addition to everyone else blazing a forgiveness trail to his door, he wanted the one guy whom he most publicly betrayed to also come to him as a supplicant.  GTFOH.

Anyway...

How did Jamie's father pull Jamie's mother?  LOL.  She was a total MILF!

Ted's mother, I thought that was good casting and you can see where Ted gets his personality from.

The best Ted Lasso episodes still have me smiling when the ep is over.  This one just didn't.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

^ @Jeddah ....

I hope that's all it is, a "hey, what a coinky-dink that we both like the movie and used references from it to 'connect'!" look between them.

I don't care one bit about the age difference between Sam and Rebecca.  But the owner/player vibe is kinda too weird a vibe to ignore.

And in that vein, I'm glad they seem to be very likely not going with a Tedbecca endgame as well because the owner/gaffer vibe isn't all that much better. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[EtheltoTillie]

Sorry, I'm in the camp that likes You've Got Mail better than Sleepless in Seattle.  First, probably because I'm a big fan of The Shop Around the Corner--more so than An Affair to Remember. 

Also, You've Got Mail was filmed in my neighborhood.  I walk by that garden all the time. 

[LADreamr]

2 hours ago, AD55 said:

I love that part, too, and I agree it's more relevant to the show. I think Meg may even say something like "when people say that, what they mean is it's not personal to them." Hanks talks like a mob boss in that scene.

Right!  I forgot that line.  I loved that too.  

 

42 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Actually, I think of it as Barnes & Noble or Borders Bookstore destroying the little bookshops and find the movie shows it’s age considering Amazon killed one.

I love Meg’s “it wasn’t personal to you and shouldn’t business begin by being personal?”  The only part of the movie that makes me well up is her saying closing the bookstore feels like losing her mother all over again . .  . and now I’m blinking hard again.

Yes, definitely in 1999 (?), it was more about Barnes & Noble.  That part gets me too.  Her solitude when she's closing the shop for the last time, and the note on the door, get to me more than anything else in the movie.  

I love the way they do little things like using Celeste's "Strange" from the Liverpool episode during callback moments in this one.  

I'm sad it's over next week.  I just hope it's a good ending.

[debraran]

I just read a great review on the internet from a writer who said pretty much what many here said, he loved the Nate redempton but WHY the ommision of so much. Why with filler, dumb episodes like Amsterdam can they say they didn't have time?  I felt the same way, even half of Amsterdam could have went and forgive me most of Keeley at her new job sleeping with her boss. If she wants casual sex, fine, but do we need to fill all the episodes with her bad decisions and seemingly lack of a brain this year?  They did her wrong.

The writers were on strike way before now. They missed giving us the coming out talk, the end of Rupert talk and why Nate quit. They made Jade one dimensional which was unneeded, I'm sure she can act.  We miss the talk with the guys about Nate....30 seconds too much?

I love the show but so disappointed, like This is Us the last year. They wasted a lot of episodes too. I don't get it. The meaty stuff they cut out and the frilly stuff they leave.

I do love Les Miz and loved Beard's speech. I was always a forgiveness type, without it, we are doomed but it should be done wisely. I also agree with Ted on how it is a gift for yourself.

Lets hope the end is something that leaves us teary and with a smile.

Edited May 24, 2023 by debraran

[AD55]

5 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Sorry, I'm in the camp that likes You've Got Mail better than Sleepless in Seattle.  First, probably because I'm a big fan of The Shop Around the Corner--more so than An Affair to Remember. 

Also, You've Got Mail was filmed in my neighborhood.  I walk by that garden all the time. 

I adore The Shop around the Corner and think it's a much better movie than An Affair to Remember. The problems I have with YGM don't exist in The Shop around the Corner.

[EtheltoTillie]

Just now, AD55 said:

I adore The Shop around the Corner and think it's a much better movie than An Affair to Remember. The problems I have with YGM don't exist in The Shop around the Corner.

True enough.  YGM has some uncomfortable moments.  But it still manages to make me overlook the problems for that ending. 

[AD55]

3 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

True enough.  YGM has some uncomfortable moments.  But it still manages to make me overlook the problems for that ending. 

Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks have great chemistry. "Don't cry, Shop Girl" gets me every time. I want the dress and sweater Meg Ryan wears in that scene.

Edited May 24, 2023 by AD55

[braziliangirl]

I liked that Ted seemed annoyed with his mom. Almost like a teenager. He lost his sense of humour completely and was so embarassed. His scene saying "fuck you" sort of reminded me when Sam was annoyed with him because he thought Jamie was coming back to Richmond. It was strange but maybe he did adapt to England culture. lol. To me the main point was him realizing that he was scared of being close to Henry. When his mom said "your son misses you"...I was: YES. 

There's  a few things that I would've changed about this season but the main one was therapist one. It partly took away something that would've been much more interesting to me: Ted understanding that the space he gave Michelle was also because he wanted to run away from other things (including his anger towards her, Henry growing up, his feelings about his dad). 

This episode made me want to call my mom (and say sorry for all the teenagers sulking years).

Also, I did apreciate Beard first reaction to Nate coming back being so strong. And it was much more easy to understang him forgiving Nate because it was a way of thanking Ted. 

I don't think the team knows that Nate leaked to the press the information about Ted. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by braziliangirl

[AD55]

1 hour ago, Quickbeam said:

Love Jamie and his mother. Their physicality could have been creepy but felt so real. When I was a social worker I saw a lot of teen moms and kids have that kind of intimate closeness. 

That's so interesting and makes me view those scenes a little differently.

[ruby24]

Ted's right that Sleepless is better. YGM meanders too much and the online stuff and the bookstore stuff is too dated and too much all over the movie.

[Sakura12]

Nate just seems to be handed everything he ever wanted without any consequences. He got to manage his own team, was great at it, he got the girl, quit on his own terms, his father apologized to him, he's a great waiter and the entire Richmond team forgave him without any apology. All because why? Because he finally figured out that Rupert is a bigger dickhead then him. (On that part Rupert deserves whatever his ex wife, next ex wife and former side piece have planned).

I love redemption arcs, but they have to be earned. Nate's was too easy. We probably won't even see his apology to Ted since Ted already forgave him and has his foot out the door ready to go home to his son.  So the Wonder Kid will probably be handed the Richmond coaching job. 

Jamie and his mom were great. Roy and Keeley seeing posters of themselves in Jamie's childhood room was amazing. I'm glad they are all friends and have grown so much when we first met them. 

That said despite Nate, I will miss this show if this is the last season. It had some really great storylines that will stick with me. I proudly tell people to watch it. 

 

[Capricasix]

It’s perplexing that so many shows can’t seem to find the sweet spot between too many eps per season (Daredevil for example, much as I loved it, was a bit bloated) and too few (many Disney Marvel series IMO). And it’s not even that this season had too many eps, it’s just that they seemed poorly planned, and several of them ended without the plot being advanced in any meaningful way.

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

And then there is Nate.  One of the reasons I am still in the camp that is not buying this is because when they decided to make Nate a villain, they showed their work.  They did it deliberately, piece by piece, gray hair by gray hair.  But now that they want to redeem him they are not doing the same thing in reverse.  It is like that character on Ally McBeal who wants everything forgiven with a simple 'Bygones!' and we are supposed to be fine.  I could have been on board with a Nate redemption if they had also 'shown their work' with him redressing what he did.  And, even worse, what little they are showing, Nate isn't even the one doing the heavy lifting.  Everyone else is putting in the work for his redemption.

This. Fuck Nate. No really, fuck Nate. I was furious when I saw that WILL was with Isaac and Colin asking him back. I'm sorry, why? Why do they need him? They are coming from 15 wins. Nate bullied Will with a viciousness no other character had displayed before. Nate left the team without warning because he was mean, and petty, and absolute the worst. HE TOLD THE PRESS ABOUT TEDDY'S MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS.

Fuck him and fuck the writers for just sweeping it all under the rug, giving us hours of that stupid Jade/ Nate romance no one cares about and treating him with the whole 'boys will be boys' mentality.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Raachel2008

[Zaffy]

So  Marry Poppins Ted after having influenced positively almost everyone around him, is going back to America and Nate (or Roy) will take his place as team's head coach. 
I guess these were the headlines at the writers room when they started their season meetings.
I am afraid filling the dots has been a failure, and whatever happens in the last episode won't change the  mess  this season has been so far.
Was it too much ambition? They thought they had the skills to write for longer episodes?
Quantity does not mean quality. Like spending all this time with Keeley, who let's be honest here, she is not that interesting of a  character and what was making her tolerable was her relationship with Roy (who I still believe he deserves much better).
And then Nate. I do not mind the redemption and Coach B said it well about second chances, but most of his arc was badly written  as well. 
Why the players  go and ask him to return? if he had somehow apologized to them I could get it, but their plea made no sense at all. Everyone seems to go to Nate when it should have been the opposite, he should had gone on an apology tour.

And Ted...omg, his arc is the messiest of all.
I'll pass the "every american lead TV character must have a big personal drama haunting him/her" plot device, I hate it anyway.
It would be the most logical thing to miss his boy. It would be really normal for him to decide to go back home to be with his son.
But no, we needed the unnecessary  plot with his ex wife and the creepy psychologist or his mom reminding him.    

And what was with Jamie kept putting his head close to mom's boobs? That was creepy as hell. Was this supposed to be satirical about momies and sons always been their babies?

I think the biggest problem this series has was failing to narrate a fairytale without turning its characters into caricatures. 
 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, braziliangirl said:

I don't think the team knows that Nate leaked to the press the information about Ted

Oooohhh. 

[Enigma X]

For the most part, I hated this episode!

[scenicbyway]

It is hard to understand while so much time was spent on KJPR and Keeley outside of Richmond. In previous seasons she was portrayed as an “Independent Woman” and ready to take on the world and instead the season we got her hiring her vulgar friend and sleeping with her financier. How Jack was surprised by the video, I’ll never understand because Ted was covering up topless pictures of Keeley in the locker room at the beginning of the series. 
Now, when it looks like she and Roy have reconciled she seems to be putting the breaks on that. Why not just have her be friends with Rebecca and Ted? Why the drama of maybe not getting together? Put Roy out of his misery.

[DEL901]

I think Apple asking for 2 extra episodes played into the odd pacing.   They also asked for 2 extra last season, but there wasn’t enough notice to integrate them, hence the stand alone Beard After Dark and the Christmas episodes.   This time they had enough notice to try to integrate them, but I still think it contributed to the odd pacing for the season.  

[PurpleTentacle]

Sorry writers, the whole Nate thing is the definition of "too little, too late". There needed to be a lot more work done throughout the season to get to the point where he could come back to Richmond.

[LADreamr]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

Nate just seems to be handed everything he ever wanted without any consequences. He got to manage his own team, was great at it, he got the girl, quit on his own terms, his father apologized to him, he's a great waiter and the entire Richmond team forgave him without any apology.

Yeah, I can only think their outreach was the result of his gesture of apology toward Will - kind of going back to where this seemed to begin with Nate - having Will walk into the prepared locker room, like Nate saw it taken care of by Will in Season 1, when Nate got promoted (and was nasty to Rebecca, which he never had to apologize for, either).  Beard's apology is probably the one that's most needed, since Ted won't be there, anymore, and Beard is the one he'll most likely be working closely with, since he'll probably want to stay in Richmond, to be with Jane.  (If I remember correctly, Roy couldn't care less, either way, what they do with Nate).  

ETA: I agree with @braziliangirl that the team doesn't know about the story leaked to Trent, but they were angry enough at Nate about tearing up the Believe sign to light a fire under in them in the game they were playing at the time. And side note: kudos to Trent being so good with discretion, being around the team all the time and trying to write a book about them, but manage not to not reveal Colin's secret, nor Nate's role in his story about Ted's panic attacks.  I hope the series ends with some voiceover from the book, so we can hear some of what he wrote.  I wish they were really writing it.

Edited May 24, 2023 by LADreamr
wanted to add a comment without adding a new comment box

[lasu]

I thought this show had fully written itself into a corner with Nate.  I wasn't buying his redemption, at least not on the timeline we're being shown.  But then they pulled an ace out of their sleeve and had the chance at redemption come as a gift from Beard.  You don't earn gifts - just like Beard hadn't when Ted gave him another chance.  But sometimes you live up to them - just like Beard did when Ted gave him another chance.  No, Nate hasn't earned his redemption, at least not yet. But I appreciate the way they made the story work.  Nate can live up to his gift over time - I think we what we have been shown so far is hope and potential. It was incredibly well played to have it be about Beard passing forward a gift he himself had received, rather than about what Nate has actually earned.

I also have loved, loved, loved seeing Jim Valvano's poster on the office wall through the series, since Ted put it up in the first episode.  I'm a lifelong NCSU basketball fan (I'm literally a result of my parents celebrating the '74 NCAA championship, lol) and Raleigh native, and I cannot overstate how loved he is here.  Never give up!

Jaime Tartt is a blessing.

[LADreamr]

11 minutes ago, lasu said:

I thought this show had fully written itself into a corner with Nate.  I wasn't buying his redemption, at least not on the timeline we're being shown.  But then they pulled an ace out of their sleeve and had the chance at redemption come as a gift from Beard.  You don't earn gifts - just like Beard hadn't when Ted gave him another chance.  But sometimes you live up to them - just like Beard did when Ted gave him another chance.  No, Nate hasn't earned his redemption, at least not yet. But I appreciate the way they made the story work.  Nate can live up to his gift over time - I think we what we have been shown so far is hope and potential. It was incredibly well played to have it be about Beard passing forward a gift he himself had received, rather than about what Nate has actually earned.

I hope your take is exactly right.

[Kabota]

1 hour ago, lasu said:

I thought this show had fully written itself into a corner with Nate.  I wasn't buying his redemption, at least not on the timeline we're being shown.  But then they pulled an ace out of their sleeve and had the chance at redemption come as a gift from Beard.  You don't earn gifts - just like Beard hadn't when Ted gave him another chance.  But sometimes you live up to them - just like Beard did when Ted gave him another chance.  No, Nate hasn't earned his redemption, at least not yet. But I appreciate the way they made the story work.  Nate can live up to his gift over time - I think we what we have been shown so far is hope and potential. It was incredibly well played to have it be about Beard passing forward a gift he himself had received, rather than about what Nate has actually earned.

I also have loved, loved, loved seeing Jim Valvano's poster on the office wall through the series, since Ted put it up in the first episode.  I'm a lifelong NCSU basketball fan (I'm literally a result of my parents celebrating the '74 NCAA championship, lol) and Raleigh native, and I cannot overstate how loved he is here.  Never give up!

Jaime Tartt is a blessing.

Thank you for this! 

Gosh, there were widely varying opinions among our watch party group. And even some of the most opposed viewpoints were equally valid interpretations. It’s probably the most we’ve discussed any episode this season. I’m going to bring your brief and elegant explanation back to them to help with the Nate. 

I’d have to say that my favorite part was honestly the game. It was great to finally capture their White Whale in Manchester! I laughed at the Mask of Zorreaux/VanDamme, and how he was suddenly unstoppable. Loved seeing Jamie progress throughout the game and was glad to finally see a quiet moment between him and Ted. (Though my heart broke a bit when he texted his father. I get it, but the physically abusive aspect of their relationship that we’ve been led to understand, just made that a tougher sell imho. Hopefully, his support system will help him maintain boundaries.)

Edited to add: I feel like I've been waiting for that showdown with Ted and Dottie for ever. Framing it in the complement sandwich of Jamie's f***  you/thank you was jarring but effective. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Kabota

[Biggie B]

• 9 hours ago, bourbon said:

  • So, this show is really going to go with a Keeley, "I choose me" ending? Fuuuuuuuuuck.

Major props for the Kelly/90210 reference.

I totally thought Keeley was going to tell Roy she didn't want to be more than just friends just as Jamie interrupted them. I thought she was going to tell Roy that she didn't want to bounce right back into a relationship after the Jack debacle, that she needed some time to be on her own and to get KJPR back into shape. Which all makes sense and is admirable, but I really, really want Roy and Keeley together! Oh well - I guess not every story line is getting wrapped up with a pretty pink bow.

I don't have any original thoughts on Nate that haven't already been expressed. I didn't want him to be redeemed. Or at the very least, I would have rather he suffer a bit and openly face the people he hurt. I get the whole forgiveness message, that it's not for the wrongdoer, it's for you yourself, but still...I found Nate's character unsympathetic and I just can't root for him.

Flaws and all, I will very much miss this show. 

 

[shapeshifter]

21 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

I get the whole forgiveness message, that it's not for the wrongdoer, it's for you yourself, but still...I found Nate's character unsympathetic and I just can't root for him.

Sometimes when someone who does not deserve to be forgiven is forgiven by the person they have harmed, that forgiveness hurts the evil doer more than anything else could. 
Unfortunately, Nate would not fit that scenario. 
Rupert is that sort of villain, but it looks like he will not be forgiven.
Michelle's therapist is another who seems constitutionally immune from the effects of undeserved forgiveness.
Jamie's father might just be redeemable, but I don't like the unrealism of that fiction.

Edited May 25, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Phebemarie]

4 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Sorry, I'm in the camp that likes You've Got Mail better than Sleepless in Seattle.  First, probably because I'm a big fan of The Shop Around the Corner--more so than An Affair to Remember. 

Also, You've Got Mail was filmed in my neighborhood.  I walk by that garden all the time. 

Have you watched She Loves Me?  It’s based on The Shop Around the Corner.  It’s one of my favorite musicals.  
 

I’m not bothered by Nate’s forgiveness tour. I figure Ted forgave him months ago…probably right after the Believe sign was ripped in two.  
 

I’m really disappointed the writers let us see Dani’s dark side.  Maybe the writers wanted to showcase his range for potential projects.  Now I’m worried about his future appearance in Acapulco later this year.  

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Phebemarie

[Grumpbump]

Here's the thing about Nate.  He's the type that has punished himself so much more than any of "us" ever could.  I truly believe that although the writers aren't hitting us over the head with that....Nate has suffered internally so much more than any outward punishment could be portrayed.  

Even though this is fiction, I am surprised there are a large number of us who can't find any good in Nate.  I feel like you might be missing a really big part of the message of this show.....