S04.E13: The Live Reunion

[sainte-chapelle]

 

Well, unlike Jackie at least Irina had the guts to show up.

Edited April 17, 2023 by sainte-chapelle

[Meedis]

Still not getting in but getting spoilers from Decider.

[topanga]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

He sounds so practiced.  Like he has PR training.  Also, Nick and Vanessa aren't asking good questions, imo.,  I wish they had pushed harder.  I needed them to ask Kwame why he cried so hard when Micah broke it off.  They let Kwame and Chelsea elide over a lot.

Agreed. Kwame implied that the editing didn't show how in love he was with Chelsea. I wish there would have been a montage off all the times Kwame acted indifferent or downright annoyed towards Chelsea. Or when he agreed with Micah when she said that Chelsea was "a lot" and didn't defend her. 

41 minutes ago, coastal515 said:

Me either.  The rest of Netflix just started working me so I can see other shows but still getting the error message for the reunion.  Doesn't sound like we're missing much?

It was a pretty good reunion. Vanessa asked a few good questions but could've been more Andy Cohen-like. 

I like that they addressed some of the internet rumors: Kwame's sister being a paid actor, for example. 

It also would've been more dramatic if Jackie (with or without Josh) had been there in person. Although she and Marshall are so volatile that it might have derailed the entire show. 

I find it very interesting that Jackie thought it was fine to call Marshall soft and imply that he was gay, but she got very offended when he said she had a "strong jawline" -- I assume he then said she could be a trans woman. Both of them were wrong, but Marshall was the only one who sort-of apologized. 

[sainte-chapelle]

I like that Zach called Micah out on her bullshit.  It seemed everyone was snowed by her and her tears. I fully believe she shit talked and never had any intention of getting married and LOL for Irina admitting she was the one who told Zach. 
Irina and Micah will never change. I think Irina used mental illness as an excuse, knowing it is a trigger for Zach. 
My hot take on Jackie is she is a moron who doesn’t know what PTSD means.  Those text messages..good Lord she speaks like a teenager. 
i also hate the baby questions. Some people don’t want children, or can’t have them. Stop it. You are no less of a family if you do not have children.

Edited April 17, 2023 by sainte-chapelle

[DearEvette]

8 minutes ago, topanga said:

I find it very interesting that Jackie thought it was fine to call Marshall soft and imply that he was gay, but she got very offended when he said she had a "strong jawline" -- I assume he then said she could be a trans woman. Both of them were wrong, but Marshall was the only one who sort-of apologized. 

Right.  Not only that, but Vanessa kinda pissed me off.  She was all softball with Jackie and hardball with Marshall.  She seemed to wave off what Jackie said and yet wanted to somehow get Marshall to admit he was being hurtful.  If she read the leaked messages, then Jackie's implications of Marshall being gay were outright offensive as well.  She wasn't just saying 'oh i don't think he's into women' the inflection of how she said things were incredibly homophobic, imo.

Kwame and Chelsea's apartment is lovely.  Man, those views are killer!  I had to crack up with Chelsea being so happy to address the idea that fans were surprised they'd said yes and her answer was all 'Girl Power! Rah!'  Honey, no one was surprised you were gonna say yes.  But Kwame didn't answer the question... so.

Vanessa pissed me off with the baby question.  How about don't ask that shit to people, ever. Especially on a live tv show.  It is infuriating because you never know someone's medical history or what triggers they have in that area and it feels like putting people on the spot.

This was a bit of a letdown, imo.  Vanessa seemed to just want to debunk internet theories.  Nick was a lump of coal.  Why was here even there? The only interesting thing was Zack having no filter.  Also, him outing Irina as the one who told him Micah wasn't interested in marrying Paul wa a very lawyer move.  He didn't say who, but let Vanessa figure it out by process of elimination.  Ha!

Anyway, I was rooting for Tiff and Brett and Bliss and Zach so I am happy they are all still married and happy a year later. 

[NeenerNeener]

I gave up last night and watched HBO instead. And it's Monday morning and although Netflix shows the reunion as the 13th episode in Season 4 with a screen cap of Kwame and Chelsea it still won't play. No bueno, Netflix!

ETA: Thinking that maybe it wasn't playing because of my Roku device I switched to my FireTV device. It won't play there either. Oh well, maybe by the time Season 5 airs they'll have fixed the Reunion episode for Season 4. Thank you to all the folks on here who've provided little recaps! Keep 'em coming!

So Zach told Paul that Micah was just playing with him and never intended to marry him? That explains his comments after he said "I don't" at the altar, about not seeing himself married to her in a year, or 2 years, or 10 years.

2nd ETA: I logged on from my laptop, and it says the Reunion episode won't be available until noon Pacific time today, which would be 3 pm East Coast time. Oy!

Edited April 17, 2023 by NeenerNeener

[violet and green]

For some reason it finally played for me on one device, but not the comfortable one... Vanessa was so irritating, interrupting Zack just as he was saying something of interest - she was so keen to paint Micah in this noble victim light, glaring at Paul when he spoke earlier and doing an angry head-bobble at him, and yet the whole edit showed us numerous examples of Micah as a mean girl, with her sniggering mean girl friends. What's hard to understand about Paul mentioning he did not see Micah as a "nurturing" person? It's like Vanessa/the producers now want to gaslight us into thinking he had no reason to make that comment. He didn't do that edit.

People really blathered in their convoluted explanations for their wrongdoings; it needed a proper host with skills to get some straight answers. So I very much appreciated Zack getting to the point and also defending Paul. That really was horrible to watch. It felt like Cole revisited to a degree - at least the entire cast didn't dogpile on Paul.

Bliss and Zack look so happy, it was so lovely to see. Brett and Tiffany, cute together. I still don't buy Kwame...

 

[Cramps]

Chelsea barely smiled. Although Kwame had his arm around her, their vibe was different than the other couples. She didn’t seem to have the same positive loving energy around him that she always did during the season. Then again, if I were her, after seeing some of the conversations he had with Micha i would be seething.  Nice apartment though! 

The whole Zach and Bliss marriage seemed creepily forced during the season. But they seem genuine on the reunion. I really like Bliss. Zach looked a bit Ben Affleck-like last night. I’ve never thought that before.  
 
IMHO Brett is by far the most attractive man to ever be on this show. And I love his Dad. Brett and Tiffany seem so healthy together.

The mean girls ended up on their own…

The baby stuff from Vanessa was awful.  One question to the group would have been fine. But that was uncool. I actually like that none of their still married couples have had kids yet. It’s so often portrayed as abnormal- but MANY married couples purposefully choose not to or can’t have kids. 
 

The tech glitch was kind of funny. The show shut down Netflix!  Bad for Netflix, but probably good for the series- it brought it so much attention! (AOC was tweeting about getting Brett’s tailor to come and save the day!) 

Wishing all three married couples long and happy marriages. 

 

[AnnaBaptist]

2 hours ago, Cramps said:

Chelsea barely smiled. Although Kwame had his arm around her, their vibe was different than the other couples. She didn’t seem to have the same positive loving energy around him that she always did during the season. Then again, if I were her, after seeing some of the conversations he had with Micha i would be seething.  Nice apartment though! 

 

I think having to wait an hour and fifteen minutes before it finally aired live killed the vibe in the room. Tiffany and Bret looked completely bored, and you could tell Chelsea, Paul, and Zach were over it, too.

[sainte-chapelle]

5 hours ago, violet and green said:

For some reason it finally played for me on one device, but not the comfortable one... Vanessa was so irritating, interrupting Zack just as he was saying something of interest - she was so keen to paint Micah in this noble victim light, glaring at Paul when he spoke earlier and doing an angry head-bobble at him, and yet the whole edit showed us numerous examples of Micah as a mean girl, with her sniggering mean girl friends. What's hard to understand about Paul mentioning he did not see Micah as a "nurturing" person? It's like Vanessa/the producers now want to gaslight us into thinking he had no reason to make that comment. He didn't do that edit.

People really blathered in their convoluted explanations for their wrongdoings; it needed a proper host with skills to get some straight answers. So I very much appreciated Zack getting to the point and also defending Paul. That really was horrible to watch. It felt like Cole revisited to a degree - at least the entire cast didn't dogpile on Paul.

Bliss and Zack look so happy, it was so lovely to see. Brett and Tiffany, cute together. I still don't buy Kwame...

 

I agree 100%. I feel like Zack wanted to scream «  Did you not see the edit? Are we watching the same show? » everyone piled onto Irina but Micah got off easily. She uses tears and make up to cover up her ugly personality.  Good on Zack for bringing up the fact that Micah never defended Paul to Shelby. All she could say was «  were you there? »…well he didn’t need to be and I didn’t hear Paul say it wasn’t true. When Zach said Micah talked shit  to him about Paul she never denied it and Vanessa didn’t say shit about it.

i think Zack and Bliss are going to make it. She wasn’t shocked by anything because Zack already told her everything. They had each others backs and wouldn’t allow any nonsense. They are both kinda dorky but it’s cute. I’m rooting for them, they look so happy together. Zack looked embarrassed and appalled by Irina’s behaviour. I think Zack was the one who dodged the bullet.

i also noticed that Irina and Micah didn’t seem to acknowledge one another, especially considering that they claim to be friends.

Edited April 17, 2023 by sainte-chapelle

[NeenerNeener]

OK, while it's not playing on my FireTV it is working on my laptop and on my Roku.

ETA: Vanessa is really Team Micah. Yuck.

Edited April 17, 2023 by NeenerNeener

[nomodrama]

I couldn't stop myself from watching this today...

I think all of the guys were very attractive in their own ways this season, to each their own but, I actually think Paul was the best looking guy of the bunch. And YES, Zach looks a lot like Ben Affleck with the beard.

I think I say this every season, Nick and Vanessa Lachey are the worst thing about this show, it sucks that the shows popularity (which likely has nothing to do with them) is keeping them comfortably employed. They add nothing to the show and they are terrible interviewers. Vanessa lets her bias get in the way of getting answers from the contestants about their behavior every single season. Her aggression towards Paul, who was trying to be honest and articulate in answering her questions, was not a good look. 

Micah re: her friend Shelby...."she never wanted me to get hurt." Micah please re-watch the footage of your buddy smirking triumphantly as you run off crying. 

I think Kwame said all of the right things in his apology for his conversation with Micah. Could it possibly be rehearsed, sure, I hope it wasn't for Chelsea's sake. I was rooting for them in the beginning but it seems like they were not as sure a bet as they seemed to be at first. 

So happy for Tiffany & Brett and Zach & Bliss. Zach was not there for Irina's BS and I loved watching it, and the solidarity between him and Bliss. 

I hate to say it but I think Irina looked very nice at the reunion as did Tiffany and Bliss. Micah and Chelsea were terribly styled...their make up in particular did not do them any favors. 

I had Jackie's number from the moment that she started crying in the pods because she told Marshall about Josh, my feelings about her solidified when she was doing nothing but creating drama and shit talking in Mexico. Team Marshall all the way over here. I almost wonder if production thought it best that Jackie and Josh not attend the reunion....a meeting between Josh, Marshall and Jackie seemed like it would have the potential to get really ugly. 

 

[LakeGal]

Why was Vanessa trying to protect Micah?  It annoyed me.  Micah did not want to take responsibility for anything.  She is still a mean girl.  

[1011101010001]

2 hours ago, nomodrama said:

And YES, Zach looks a lot like Ben Affleck with the beard.

Which is funny because I bet Irina thinks Ben is hot.

Does Netflix think Bartise was at all popular with viewers?  Also, has he already broken up with baby mama or is she camera shy?

2 hours ago, nomodrama said:

I almost wonder if production thought it best that Jackie and Josh not attend the reunion....a meeting between Josh, Marshall and Jackie seemed like it would have the potential to get really ugly. 

On Dave Neal’s YouTube channel he said Netflix disinvited them for security reasons after death threats.  People take their reality dating shows way too seriously.

[sainte-chapelle]

25 minutes ago, MrBuhBye said:

Which is funny because I bet Irina thinks Ben is hot.

Does Netflix think Bartise was at all popular with viewers?  Also, has he already broken up with baby mama or is she camera shy?

On Dave Neal’s YouTube channel he said Netflix disinvited them for security reasons after death threats.  People take their reality dating shows way too seriously.

Sorry I am not shooting the messenger ( total respect for @MrBuhBye)but I don’t believe this…Jackie is simply a coward. Irina was far more hated than Jackie and she still showed up. If anyone received death threats it would be Irina.

Edited April 18, 2023 by sainte-chapelle

[DearEvette]

18 minutes ago, MrBuhBye said:

On Dave Neal’s YouTube channel he said Netflix disinvited them for security reasons after death threats.  People take their reality dating shows way too seriously.

I saw that Josh's explanation of why they didn't attend didn't mention death threats at all.  Just that they had a last minute obligation.  So was she receiving death threats but not him?   If this is true, I truly do feel bad and think people are fucked up, but I also don't feel that Jackie is a reliable narrator on anything.

Also, Even if they did, they could have still done it remote and zoomed in live instead of that pre-recorded warm bath of an interview they got.  It really is giving "I can dish it online, but I can't take it in person" energy from Jackie.

The more I think on it, the worse I think Vanessa was.  I think Vanessa did both Marshall and Paul a disservice.  At least Zack had Paul's back.  You could almost see him wanting to spill more tea about Micah, but had to restrain himself.  Too bad nobody stepped up for Marshall, but at least Kwame did a WTF face when Jackie was trying to claim Marshall wanted to give the ring to someone else. She is so full of it...LOL.

 

[After7Only]

Why bring up social media posts if you’re not going to discuss the contents of the post?   For this casual viewer, the mentioning of social media drama, but not addressing it was annoying.   

Vanessa also irked me with her questioning of Paul.    “Micah is not nurturing” is not a hard concept to grasp.   The viewers understood exactly what he meant because we watched the show….

I also wished Nick added something to the reunion.   If he could just cape half as hard for the guys as Vanessa does for the ladies it could bring some balance.

[1011101010001]

Here is what she said 

 

 

[Starlight925]

If Jackie & Josh truly had a "last minute obligation" (which I call B.S., but whatever), why didn't they have them stream in Live?

What a disservice to Marshall.  He had to sit there alone, and not be able to say a word to her.

[sainte-chapelle]

28 minutes ago, MrBuhBye said:

Here is what she said 

 

 

Jackie is lying trash…btw I owned a sweater with a thumb hole in 2004. Couldn’t go to to live reunion no more…Jesus take the wheel

Edited April 18, 2023 by sainte-chapelle

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, nomodrama said:

Micah re: her friend Shelby...."she never wanted me to get hurt." Micah please re-watch the footage of your buddy smirking triumphantly as you run off crying. 

See, I believe her. But that defense of Shelby is one of the few slip-ups that gives away Paul rejecting her is what Micah wanted to happen so she could have a reality "moment."  Shelby knew about it and was approving when the plan worked.  That's what I think that moment caught on tape was about.  It wasn't Shelby being happy her friend was upset; she was happy her friend got the scenario she wanted.

Say what you want about Micah, and I've said a lot, but she didn't want to go as far as throw her friend under the bus.

Both Micah and Paul were going to say "no" at the altar but instead of just letting it go down like it was a mutual decision, she wanted to make it seem like she was Paul's victim. I think that's why Paul was irritated.  They all knew it but Vanessa totally bought Micah's act.

1 hour ago, After7Only said:

Vanessa also irked me with her questioning of Paul.    “Micah is not nurturing” is not a hard concept to grasp.   The viewers understood exactly what he meant because we watched the show….

I have yet to watch the whole thing but I think a call out that women are supposed to be "nurturing" is fair game.  Ignoring Micah's behavior isn't great.  This is a situation where both people made mistakes but only one got the third degree from Vanessa.

Yeah, I don't believe Jackie missed it because of death threats.  Death threats on the internet are terrible things but they're also, sadly, commonplace.  I doubt Netflix would be afraid of something happening with their security.

[CSunshine76]

Vanessa is AWFUL with her questioning of Marshall. Marshall was not the villain here Vanessa. Overall the reunion was boring…I think maybe it lost its luster after the giant live failure of last night. They need new hosts if there is another season, Nick and Vanessa are terrible.

[braziliangirl]

There is so much hate and weird comments on social media about almost every single cast member that it's making really hard to enjoy watching reality shows. No wonder the reunions kind of feel flat. It's almost impossible to have a nuanced conversation without worrying about becoming the villain or villainizing someone else. 

Vanessa interview with Jackie and Josh was so friendly. Maybe she felt sorry for Jackie or worried about all the hate she got?

[After7Only]

58 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I have yet to watch the whole thing but I think a call out that women are supposed to be "nurturing" is fair game. 

You may be giving Vanessa more credit than I.  I didn’t take it as Vanessa calling out the sexism in the word nurturing.  I took it as Vanessa ignoring everything we saw of Micah being a not that into Paul.   She said she loved him a lot.   But we didn’t see the love, or caring, or even much interest in him.   She wanted to change how he dressed, where he lived, etc.   But wasn’t that interested in the guy he actually was.   

[sainte-chapelle]

11 minutes ago, After7Only said:

You may be giving Vanessa more credit than I.  I didn’t take it as Vanessa calling out the sexism in the word nurturing.  I took it as Vanessa ignoring everything we saw of Micah being a not that into Paul.   She said she loved him a lot.   But we didn’t see the love, or caring, or even much interest in him.   She wanted to change how he dressed, where he lived, etc.   But wasn’t that interested in the guy he actually was.   

Yup, she wanted to change Paul. Even before the wedding she waxed on about how she would elevate Paul’s style. All this coming from a woman who cannot wear proper undergarments for her wedding dress and has so many fillers she looks like a muppet. Meanwhile Paul is making wedding rings in a forge. They were poorly matched. Micha would do well as a trophy wife to an older well to do gentleman. She wasn’t into him and Zack was the only one to call her on her bullshit.

I think the nurturing comment is fair, she came across as unkind and selfish. I suspect Paul meant it as an overall comment regarding her nature but he was too kind to say it so he started backpedaling. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by sainte-chapelle

[Kiss my mutt]

I didn’t like Vanessa trying to get Paul to backpedal on his nurturing comment. He said what he said. He wants to gave children and didn’t see Micah as mother material as a which I totally agree. Vanessa was way too dorked up and hyper. Maybe it was the nerves being on live tv, but she should have pushed when she didn’t, and backed up when she did.

Loved Zach’s face during all the BS. He was not having it but I wish he would have said more. Zach has always seemed pretty true to himself on the show and seems like pretty good folk. I hope he and Bliss live a long and loving life. Maybe he’ll do a AMA some day. I’d pay good money for that. 
 

 

[nomodrama]

1 hour ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I think the nurturing comment is fair, she came across as unkind and selfish. I suspect Paul meant it as an overall comment regarding her nature but he was too kind to say it so he started backpedaling. 

BINGO! I was coming in here to say just this, I think Paul forced out the word "nurturing" because it was the safest way to describe her without having him made out to be even worse than he was. Vanessa was doing her very best to paint Paul into a corner where he would say something that would put him in a bad light and he was doing his best to verbally dodge her. 

[Lindz]

Yup. Paul's an effin idiot!!! Criticism? Organicly? NO!!! He didn't want to give her the opportunity to show that side of her. It's not requesting someone change to someone they're not. It's a matter of if it's there, please show it. GROW UP!!!

 

Zack's beard is so bad. His singing is so bad. We had to suffer through another song. Please. Have him recite it as a poem.

 

Oh dear God!!! They gave Bartise another minute because he has a kid?!?!! EW!!! Please no more of him & that struggle baby! They're both ugly. Enough.

 

Men are such horrible listeners. Good on Vanessa for keeping the points straight from the JJ video. Didn't like her just letting Jackie talk without any follow-up. WHO does she claim Marshall wanted to propose to & why? Just making shit up. WHY did she want to keep the ring??? It's ILLEGAL!!! WHAT'S JOSH THINK ABOUT THAT??? I'm glad Marshall said what he said about her, them dancing around it was annoying. "Jabs" can go too far. She brought out the worst in him at times. He really got away with calling her a project, huh? That would've been the perfect time to bring that up.

 

They've only been married a year after being complete strangers, DON'T ASK ABOUT BABIES!!! IT'S ABSURD!!!

 

Oh frick & frack. Together again. Chelsea totally called them out indirectly, talking about needing to hurt others to feel good. HA! Now why did Irina stay on stage after they were done grilling her??? The producers made her go to Mexico??? REALLY GIRL?!?! BYE! It's not adding up. This is the guy you're supposed to be in love with, yet you're scared to tell him it "doesn't feel right"??? Nahhhh. Try again.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Lindz

[jade.black]

13 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I have yet to watch the whole thing but I think a call out that women are supposed to be "nurturing" is fair game.

If anything, I think Vanessa was reinforcing the sexist idea that women must be "nurturing" because she sees motherhood as the end all be all of life (evidenced by her insane fixation on babies). That's why she acted like it was the most offensive thing anyone had done on the show and jumped to Micah's defense. Vanessa was just gross through the whole reunion. It's like she's recruiting for a cult of parenthood. 

[DearEvette]

23 minutes ago, jade.black said:

If anything, I think Vanessa was reinforcing the sexist idea that women must be "nurturing" because she sees motherhood as the end all be all of life (evidenced by her insane fixation on babies). That's why she acted like it was the most offensive thing anyone had done on the show and jumped to Micah's defense. Vanessa was just gross through the whole reunion. It's like she's recruiting for a cult of parenthood. 

 

Is that why she looked like she was wearing a bedazzled baby spit up cloth on her shoulder?

[LuvMyShows]

On 4/16/2023 at 11:29 PM, DearEvette said:

Kwame and Chelsea's apartment is lovely.  Man, those views are killer!  

Would love to hear from someone who knows the Puget Sound real estate scene, but a corner waterfront luxury modern 2-BR apt rental must be at least $5K/month, right?  What do either of them do that they can afford that?

On 4/17/2023 at 10:31 AM, Cramps said:

Zach looked a bit Ben Affleck-like last night. 

Yep, and that beard was such a huge improvement!  He also had his hair shorter and under control, and he looked presentable or maybe even better than that. Honestly, during their ceremony, I was unable to look at him, because he just looked so creepy.

On 4/17/2023 at 10:31 AM, Cramps said:

The mean girls ended up on their own…

That's exactly what I thought!

17 hours ago, nomodrama said:

I hate to say it but I think Irina looked very nice at the reunion as did Tiffany and Bliss. Micah and Chelsea were terribly styled...their make up in particular did not do them any favors. 

Gotta disagree.  I thought that Micah's hair color was much better than the platinum she had during the season, and her makeup didn't look any different to me than how she did her own makeup during the season.  And I thought that Tiffany was waaay too made up and it spoiled her natural beauty...she looked harsh.

15 hours ago, MrBuhBye said:

Does Netflix think Bartise was at all popular with viewers?  

I think they showed him not because of whether he was popular or not, but as a way to address the rumors head-on. 

[ichbin]

On 4/16/2023 at 11:29 PM, DearEvette said:

Nick was a lump of coal.

On all of the relationship shows I've seen him host!  I have no idea why he and his wife were chosen for the job. They may have other talents but this isn't among them. At least Vanessa seems to have followed along or done some homework regarding the season while he comes off as though he just walks in and tries to wing it.

 

13 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

Yup, she wanted to change Paul. Even before the wedding she waxed on about how she would elevate Paul’s style. All this coming from a woman who cannot wear proper undergarments for her wedding dress and has so many fillers she looks like a muppet. Meanwhile Paul is making wedding rings in a forge. They were poorly matched. Micha would do well as a trophy wife to an older well to do gentleman. She wasn’t into him and Zack was the only one to call her on her bullshit.

I always got the feeling she felt she was doing him a favor by being with him.  I wasn't swayed by the tears and attempts at victimhood.  As petty as this may sound it gave me joy to see that sloppy bra strap when she was wearing the wedding gown during the ceremony.  

 

23 hours ago, sainte-chapelle said:

I think Zack was the one who dodged the bullet.

100%. He and Bliss appear to be happy so good for them.  

It looks like the three married couples on the show have gotten together over the last year. No doubt they have compared notes on what they actually lived vs. what made the final edit. I have a feeling Zach had a whole lot more he could have unloaded during the reunion regarding the mean girl team.  

Edited April 18, 2023 by ichbin
spelling

[BradC]

6 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Would love to hear from someone who knows the Puget Sound real estate scene, but a corner waterfront luxury modern 2-BR apt rental must be at least $5K/month, right?  What do either of them do that they can afford that?

I live in Seattle.   $5K/month is a pretty reasonable estimate of the rent for a modern, 2-BR apartment with that killer view.  As to what they do, it's not hard to imagine that the two of them combined are grossing at least $250K/year.  There is a lot of money sloshing around in this city.

Edited April 18, 2023 by BradC

[HerkyJerky]

50 minutes ago, ichbin said:

while he comes off as though he just walks in and tries to wing it.

Nick did the same when he was host of "Perfect Match".  Nice gig if you can get it!😎

[angelamh66]

Superficial moment... Micah looked really different in the face to me. Fillers? Did she lose some weight? Something was definitely different. 

I am no fan of Micah but the nurturing comment did bug me a bit. Maybe she isn't nurturing to Paul because he is a grown man who can take care of himself. That doesn't mean she wouldn't be very caring with an actual child. That said, Paul did the right thing in saying no because Micah is actually just kinda awful and her friends are too. 

 

 

 

[snarts]

Vanessa Lachey apologized & sent flowers to Paul

I also thought she was a bit biased with her questioning of him, especially since it was apparent to most viewers that they weren't going to make it to the altar.  

If the show learns anything from this season, it should be to institute a minimum age requirement of at least 30 AND stop including rejects from other dating shows.  Lots of rumors that Irina/Micah were both castoffs from Too Hot to Handle auditions.

[Cornhusker12]

I used to think I wanted MORE of Vanessa and Nick, simply because they are barely in the show at all and I figured they would have something to offer if they were involved more, but nope! Vanessa seemed like a mean girl weirdo, and Nick came across like Brick Tamland.

[ichbin]

1 hour ago, snarts said:

If the show learns anything from this season, it should be to institute a minimum age requirement of at least 30 AND stop including rejects from other dating shows.  Lots of rumors that Irina/Micah were both castoffs from Too Hot to Handle auditions.

I think most reality shows are always going to draw heavily from a particular demographic.  In addition to a handful of actual employed individuals with real professions there always seems to be an abundance of "entrepreneurs", "actors", "models", and self-employed people with vague resumes who don't have to worry about taking time the time off from paid jobs which is needed for filming/traveling, etc. with hopes of parlaying their 15 minutes into a reality show career of sorts bouncing from franchise to franchise.

[ZaldamoWilder]

It eventually played for me because like an idiot, I never picked another thumbnail, changed the channel, nothing.  I just finished my taxes and giggled loudly as Bravo, Hulu, Blockbuster and Cheesecake Factory, collectively tweet-dragged Netflix for the filthy hooer she is.  Annnnyhooo.  Snoozer.   Jackie's a frizzy headed slick mouth bish with an unjustifiably inflated sense of self.  I wanted Marshall to say or do or mime just one satisfyingly rude thing when he was speaking directly to the camera, but alas, class act n' all.  I wish somebody had given Zack and Bliss a stack of napkins cause baby they gobbled Irina up for lunch aint they? Hee!!!  Kwame and Chelsea....yawn.  This girl so happy to have any ole piece of dude to call her husband, I just...   He lost me with the Alex/Kwame thing.  Was his point:  I'm intro'ing myself as Alex, because if I say my name is Kwame, whomever is on the other side of that wall will automatically know I'm black and I don't wanna taint the process?  Bruh ok.  I just want the answer to this - if you and Micah had come to the realization that your connection was ending, why did you sob when (yes Vanessa, Micah told Kwame) she said ya'll should see other people?  Ness, why ain't you ask him that?  This dude had to be James Brown-draped in a full duvet because he was bent at the waist, wracked in sobs. Tuh!    Micah.  Now this is where it gets a little tricky for me.  Even upon playback.  Micah doesn't seem like a full on Plastics to me.  Irina yes.  But wherever I saw/heard bitchiness break out, somebody (usually Irina) was talking or sniggling or some immature shit and while not shutting it down, Micah seemed like a participant due to proximity rather than full and willing participation.  Going so far in one instance as to pretend to have to pee.   Now that sounds a little bit like the apathy defense.  Either way, is it shitty?  Absolutely, yes, but, you and I know, it's levels to it.   Hell if I know, but what was the advantage to choosing anybody?  She didn't want Paul but she didn't want Amber to have him?  

One of these Lacheys is an EP or Creator or something, that explains the continuation of this debacle.  Bring us Cam and Lauren, dammit!  I need folks who know to ask the shit we wanna know.

Brett and Tiffany are Disney cute.  I feel like a heretic for saying this but there's something, an undercurrent of something that won't allow me to all the way trust that girl.   

Nancy, if you're listening, Zack and Marshall are waiting for you at the bullet dodging kiosk. 

As long as none of these people ever sing again......like, ever.  I'm good.

 

[Kiss my mutt]

I think Paul described Micah as “not nurturing” because he didn’t want to flat out call her a bitch, but we all know what he meant. Vanessa was a dog with a bone with that one.

Chelsea is a speech pathologist and I believed she had that apartment before Kwame so she must make an above average salary to afford it on her own though, I think her family appears to be pretty well off and maybe she has family money. I’m always curious in castmate’s digs and what they do for a living, cost of living, etc. Kwame’s Linkedin says he’s head of Community Development at Common Room. 
 

Common Room is the intelligent community-led growth platform that provides real-time intelligence and cross-organizational insights to help you transform customer relationships and turn your community into a powerful growth engine. Whatever that means. 

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

He lost me with the Alex/Kwame thing.  Was his point:  I'm intro'ing myself as Alex, because if I say my name is Kwame, whomever is on the other side of that wall will automatically know I'm black and I don't wanna taint the process?

I assumed so. And I was like, one, if I did this, I’d tell people I’m Black; I’ve had enough faces fall when my Black self with a white-sounding name shows up for job interviews, I could not risk it if my would-be fiancé did it, and two … why is he telling people that he considered doing that? Like for what?

[ExMathMajor]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:00 PM, Empress1 said:

I assumed so. And I was like, one, if I did this, I’d tell people I’m Black; I’ve had enough faces fall when my Black self with a white-sounding name shows up for job interviews, I could not risk it if my would-be fiancé did it, and two … why is he telling people that he considered doing that? Like for what?

In episode 1 Kwame said that he couldn't take his date to prom because he was black and ever since then he's felt like he had to go out of his way to prove himself to (presumably white) people. That statement immediately drew a side-eye from me.

I'm black, with a name that wasn't actually considered "black" when I was born (I was named after a white woman) but is considered "black" now (in that typically women and girls who have my name are black). It never would have occurred to me to present myself as anything other than me (my name). I realize that that has a lot to do with both when and where I grew up, though.

As for the reunion in general? Yawn. I didn't ever need to see Jackie, Josh, or Irina again. And Micah can miss me with her BS.

[Adgirl]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:23 AM, angelamh66 said:

I am no fan of Micah but the nurturing comment did bug me a bit. Maybe she isn't nurturing to Paul because he is a grown man who can take care of himself.

He was trying not to say mean or bully so he said he didn't see nurturing in her.  However, would you want a woman who behaved like she and Irina did to be the mother of your children? What kind of people would they become?

Vanessa is the worst host in the history of hosting. The host isn't supposed to be combative with the guests. Also did she watch the same show the rest of us did? wtf

Edited April 19, 2023 by Adgirl

[SummerDreams]

I finally finished this reunion (and I regret it because it sucked - honestly I never want to see or hear about these people again 🥴)

Paul didn't only say he didn't think Micah is nurturing; he said "I don't envision her as a mother". These two things are two completely different statements in my opinion. It's okay to say a woman does not treat YOU in the nurturing way you would like. But saying you don't envision her as a mother is something harsh and unfair especially after knowing her for a month. What Paul said was unnecessary and hurtful in my opinion, even if Micah doesn't ever want to have kids. I think this is the reason she seemed hurt during the reunion and not for the nurturing comment. As a poster said above, a woman can be not nurturing to her boyfriend or husband but still be the most nurturing mother to her kids.

Regarding Vanessa insisting to know whether the couples were planning to have kids, I didn't find it weird because they were just on a show that follows them everywhere, they share personal stuff on camera, they kiss as and hug their partners on camera, they talk about their sexual life on camera, about feelings, we see their relationships with one another and with their parents etc, so I don't find it that out of line to be asked about planning for kids. The general answers they gave were more than enough and didn't reveal anything extraordinary.

I'm so happy for Zack and Bliss 💗 Tiffany and Brett are still boring for my taste. Chelsea I'm glad you got yourself a trophy husband with all the fixings 😁

Irina, Micah and Jackie hopefully will get the help they need sooner rather than later and become better people. Peace 🕊️

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

Paul didn't only say he didn't think Micah is nurturing; he said "I don't envision her as a mother". These two things are two completely different statements in my opinion

I think there is a nuance in how he said both things tho...

He said "I struggled with envisioning Micah as a mother" and then he added "There is a nurturing aspect some people have and... I don't know... whenever I tried, I just know I was never able to see it clearly."

My takeaway is that people plucked that nurturing comment (myself included, tbh) and ran with it.  But he said a lot during that after wedding talking head to explain why he said no, not the least of which he said did not feel loved by her.  And even then he tried to both-sides it when he said maybe it was a defense mechanism because maybe she held back because she was aftraid he wouldn't reciprocate.  This is why I think her throwing the 'You answer first' bit is what crystallized his decision to say no.  Her refusal to answer probably validated his feeling that she didn't quite love him.  I know as a viewer, that moment read to me as very calculated and manipulative on her part.

I don't feel he was cruel, in fact, I thought the reason Zack jumped in to defend him was because Paul was being too circumspect and really trying to police his words so he wouldn't come off as mean or anything.  And I think it is a shame because I don't think he felt he could tell his own truth in that moment, between being hyper conscious of not appearing to be mean given that he was the one who said no at the altar, and Micah could fall back on tears any moment and finally because Vanessa was haranguing him with an agenda.  You could see the tack she was taking a mile away and it was all about defending Micah's feelings at the expense of Paul's.

She pulled that shit with Marshall too. 'But what about Jackie's feelings."  Uh, girl what?  Did you ask Jackie about Marshall's feelings?

[dabbrusc]

 

On 4/18/2023 at 4:07 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

I think Paul described Micah as “not nurturing” because he didn’t want to flat out call her a bitch, but we all know what he meant. Vanessa was a dog with a bone with that one.

I agree with this, I read it as Paul being faced with the person he broke up with and trying not to straight up insult the person to their face so trying to take some of the heat on himself with "it's not you, it's me" reasoning. But Vanessa and Micah wouldn't let it go. Vanessa wanted to make a point for TV, and Micah was happy the attention was on Paul instead of her behavior and was hoping that if they spent enough time on Paul they'd move on to someone else afterwards. It was completely obvious that Micah did not want to be at the reunion.

[Jeanne222]

2 hours ago, dabbrusc said:

 

I agree with this, I read it as Paul being faced with the person he broke up with and trying not to straight up insult the person to their face so trying to take some of the heat on himself with "it's not you, it's me" reasoning. But Vanessa and Micah wouldn't let it go. Vanessa wanted to make a point for TV, and Micah was happy the attention was on Paul instead of her behavior and was hoping that if they spent enough time on Paul they'd move on to someone else afterwards. It was completely obvious that Micah did not want to be at the reunion.

She surely didn’t want to be there!  Showing her conversations with the other mean girls made her look ugly. 

She’s a very old looking 26 year old. Looks like she’s been rode hard and partied a plenty!

 I think Paul missed a bullet. 

[1011101010001]

Just because Paul can’t envision her as a mother doesn’t mean that she can’t or won’t be a good mother. He doesn’t control her destiny.  He barely knows her, how much weight does she want to put on that uninformed opinion?  She just used that comment to play the victim.  She was on Nick Viall’s podcast yesterday and was acting like the “mean girl edit” was something cooked up by producers.  Did she not openly mock the Mardi Gras theme party?  Did she and Irina not cluck that any client of Zack’s would be found guilty when neither of them are attorneys or have anything on which to base criticizing his professional competence?

[Miss chi chi]

I felt the worst for Marshall. Vanessa was ridiculous with how nice she was to Jackie and how confrontational she was to Marshall. The format was also not fair to him. Jackie got to sling all kinds of accusations in a video, and then he was supposed to respond on the spot.  And then Vanessa gets annoyed with him that he can’t remember all the bullshit they said. 

[William2021]

Wow, I didn't know Ben Affleck would be in the reunion.