S01.E08: The Lord of the Tides

[jcin617]

10 minutes ago, bluvelvet said:

Did anyone else think Alicent may have poisoned that girl??

No, that was a “preventative” tea.  There would be no need to question her, comfort her and then pay her off if Alicent wanted her out of the way.  Alicent is keenly aware her son is awful, she said as much to him.

Edited October 10, 2022 by jcin617

[nilyank]

3 minutes ago, jcin617 said:

No, that was a “preventative” tea.  There would be no need to question her, comfort her and then pay her off if Alicent wanted her out of the way.  Alicent is keenly aware her son is awful, she said as much to him.

Exactly. She is the Queen and Dyana was a lowly servant. She could have made the poor girl disappear without anyone saying a word to her.  Sbe didn't have to speak to her much less hug her,

[Lamima]

Just now, jcin617 said:

No, that was a “preventative” tea.  There would be no need to question her, comfort her and then pay her off if Alicent wanted her out of the way.

Well, the queen can keep the pay off if she croaks before leaving the castle. And she had to convince her to drink it. I suspected she was poisoned. But then the servant who brought the tea was the hooded person who we saw with Daemon's old lay (who asked her if it had been a wild night at the castle). So I wondered if she gave her placebo tea so as to allow a pregnancy. Doubtful because I am not sure how that would matter.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, The Kings Foot said:

Well one is a toddler so I doubt he'll be a major player 

The way this show goes, he’ll be middle aged by next episode. 

2 minutes ago, nilyank said:

Exactly. She is the Queen and Dyana was a lowly servant. She could have made the poor girl disappear without anyone saying a word to her.  Sbe didn't have to speak to her much less hug her,

Hugging someone while telling her no one would believe she was raped is not really a hug of comfort as much as manipulation.

[snickers]

I originally thought Aegon was "Joffrey light" Joff from GOT that is....and  I still stand by that, because Joff killed the people he brought into his room.....

At least Alicent didn't kill the maid, you know Cersei would have 😑

It was funny seeing Otta get mad how Alicent backtracked wanting Rhea's friendship again...well...that's all out the window now that Alicent thinks Viserys wants Aegon as the "prince who was promised"

As for what happened there....i thought that was a good plot point....it wouldn't be the first time in history someone has believed/misinterpreted something than what was originally intended (especially when it comes to religion)

That's my Matt Daemon for killing Vaemond defending Rhea! and did you see the impressed look from Aemond 🙃

I did like the exchanges those two gave each other, i sense some showdowns brewing

Man those scenes with Viserys were hard....the show should win emmy's for the special effects for those scenes alone

I'm predicting the three dragon eggs Daemon found are Drogon/Vicerion/Rhegal....(the one looks very much like Vicerion's egg just saying)

Edited October 10, 2022 by snickers

[Lady Whistleup]

I want to give Paddy Considine props. He really acted the hell out of that character.

[Domenicholas]

Aemond was looking at Daemon like "Oh, if only Targaryens could marry nephews, not just nieces."

[LanceM]

38 minutes ago, deaja said:

The way this show goes, he’ll be middle aged by next episode. 

According to the show runner this was the last time jump not only for this season but  for the series.

[PurpleTentacle]

2 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

WTH does Visyris have that turns him into a walking skeleton.  I don't remember seeing that in GOT.  He's beginning to look like a wight.  

I assume it's just bacteria living in his body, slowly eating him and the Maesters cutting off more and more infected parts. Times before antibiotics were no joke.

[snickers]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

I turned away for one second. Then, I hear doors open, they announced the King, and this regal music starts to play. I look back and see the scene of the open room with people bowing with the regal music still playing... and my first thought is "MUFASA?"

If Mufasa came back from the dead with the way Viserys was creeping to that throne

Edited October 10, 2022 by snickers

[Constantinople]

Come! Let us drain our cups to these three strong boys!

LOL

[PurpleTentacle]

2 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

Come! Let us drain our cups to these three strong boys!

These strong boys need some more diplomacy lessons. The correct response would have been feigning ignorance and saying something like "Thank you uncle. I'm sure you will be strong one day too, if you keep training."

[AntFTW]

Alicent's sons are a-holes. They seem to have no other quality. She raised shitty sons. She knows they are not fit to rule. I believe that Alicent believes Rhaenyra will make the better monarch as opposed to her own sons. However, Alicent's lust for power has priority over her belief that Rhaenyra would be the better monarch.

[aghst]

1 hour ago, bluvelvet said:

Did anyone else think Alicent may have poisoned that girl??

She may not have poisoned her but she's covering up for her rapist son.

Surprised though that she cares about some servant being raped by her son.  Wasn't it one of the perks of nobility, that they have their way with the women who have no status at all?

Then again, maybe they're trying to show how religious Alicent has become?  So after slashing her stepdaughter, she's now more pious, not so overtly bloodthirsty -- Jace and Luke no longer have to worry about their eyes?

I know Driftmark is suppose to be a big asset and the Velaryons huge allies but did the king always decide succession for other houses?  Didn't seem to be the case in GoT at all.

Yeah even if Alicent didn't get what she's going to claim is Viserys' last dying wish, she would have sooner or later been pressing claims for Agon, her useless son.

BTW, Raynera and Damon got busy didn't they, didn't waste time, 2 more sons and one more in the oven in the intervening years.  It's not like if Jace and Luke are denied, her youngest sons would have claim to the Iron Throne?

18 minutes ago, LanceM said:

According to the show runner this was the last time jump not only for this season but  for the series.

Well Jace and Luke are handicapped then as Amond has a half a foot of height and maybe 50 pounds on poor little Luke then.

Edited October 10, 2022 by aghst

[Stardancer Supreme]

I'll be honest; I was expecting Corlys to come through.  I guess we will see next week what has come of him. 

Fare thee well, Vaemond. I guess he should have known he was going to die, but really fam?  It didn't appear that he had heirs of his own and Corlys never mentioned making him heir to Driftmark; he was that determined to keep Lucerys away from the Driftmark throne?  He wasn't even going to let Rhaenys keep the throne in the event of Corlys' death?  He couldn't even wait until they got Corlys back home before running to King's Landing? This whole charade didn't make any sense, and he rightfully died for it. 

Prince Aegon has ratcheted his creepiness level up to raping Helaena and servants? Yuck.  Aemond looks to be the odd one out yet again in the children group.  Baela stayed in Driftmark with Rhaenys while Rhaena went to Dragonstone; I wonder if Rhaena was able to get a dragon yet?

Rhaenyra decided to have even sets of boys. Three for Harwin, and 3 for Daemon. I hope she will get the dagger from Viserys before the war starts...

[Constantinople]

5 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

Alicent's sons are a-holes. They seem to have no other quality.

I was merely expressing how proud I am of my family Mother. Mm...though it seems my nephews aren't quite as proud of theirs.

LOL

[Chyromaniac]

They better get that chair tested before anyone else has to sit in it- from what it did to poor Vis, it’s gotta have serious lead contamination.

[LoveLeigh]

What were his last words? I couldn't hear it....

[paigow]

If the Maesters developed an effective morning after tea, why is there no fertility drink? That would have solved the Laenor problem

[Stardancer Supreme]

24 minutes ago, aghst said:

I know Driftmark is suppose to be a big asset and the Velaryons huge allies but did the king always decide succession for other houses?  Didn't seem to be the case in GoT at all.

No, the King usually does not decide succession for other Houses. This particular dustup happened because Corlys didn't officially announce Lucerys as his Heir to everyone assembled at Laena's funeral like he planned.  Remember that Rhaenys was pressing for him to make Baela his Heir and then they "lost" Laenor on the heels of the funeral.  Corlys had no intention of shutting Lucerys out, even knowing that he wasn't a true Velaryon. 

I wonder how Rhaenys really felt about Vaemond, though he was destined to become a thorn in her side.  I wonder why she had to watch as the sisters did their work on the body...

Edited October 10, 2022 by Stardancer Supreme

[bunnyblue]

For all their disagreements & fighting & estrangements over the years, it was good to see the love between Viserys, Daemon, and Rhaenyra one final time. I actually shed a few tears watching Viserys drag his decrepit body across the throne room in order to fight for his daughter one last time and when Daemon helped him up the steps and placed the crown on his head. I don't think anyone genuinely loved Viserys as much as Rhaenyra & Daemon did. I'm assuming the whispered "my love" as he took his last breath means that Viserys saw his beloved Aemma again. After suffering cruelly for the last decade, I'm going with that little bit of happiness for old Viserys.

As everyone looked away in shock & horror after Daemon relieved Vaemond of his head, I'm not surprised it was Aemond who looked on with admiration. I get the feeling he is just seething with barely contained rage, especially towards his nephews. I'm disappointed Daemon & Aemond didn't exchange any words after the disastrous dinner. Daemon must have thought he was looking in the mirror. 

Hey, Alicent, do you still think Aegon the rapist is a better person to rule over Rhaenyra and her bastards? Once he's king, I don't think anyone will be able to control Aegon, and his depravities will probably get worse with age. Poor Helaena having to be married to that. 

I'm unclear as to why Rhaenys did a 180 and sided with Rhaenyra at the last moment? I also don't get why she stayed with Vaemond's body as the Silent Sisters prepared his body. I didn't get the feeling that Rhaenys was particularly fond of Vaemond, so was it out of loyalty to Corlys?

[magdalene]

This episode gave me a crying head ache. I choked up every time I looked at Viserys. By the time Daemon helped him to the throne and "crowned" him I was bawling.  Paddy was so fantastic til the end.

[RobertDeSneero]

Aegon and Aemond act like they should be Daemon's sons.  Aegon would have laughed at "heir for a day".

Helaena is the Luna Lovegood of the Martinverse.

Rhaenys accept the marriages for the sake of avoiding war.

Baelq and Rhaena are a bit older than their betrothed, but I suppose not too old.

Alicent treated the serving girl exactly how I expected she would, but also like she's paid off so many girls to quietly leave that she always keeps a pouch of money ready for the inevitable next one.  Someone in Westeros needs to invent the male chastity belt.

[go4luca]

This moment was everything.

[DigitalCount]

59 minutes ago, LoveLeigh said:

What were his last words? I couldn't hear it....

I believe it's "No more, no more. My love..."

Presumably near the end there he was seeing Aemma.

[Roccos Brother]

- That was a really horrible way for Vaemond to go. I'm sure there will be op-eds written about this in the proceeding days.

Although it was clear his fate had been sealed and his screen-time has been practically non-existent, I still think he deserved a more dignified death than what he got. It would have been more interesting IMO if the writers had kept him around in order to form an alliance with the Hightowers.

- I was wondering when we would see the return of Mysaria, I knew she was going to play a much bigger role in coming episodes. Props to the costume department, everyone's outfits looked gorgeous tonight. And props to the makeup department; which has clearly allocated half their budget to working overtime on King Viserys alone. 

- Aemond's speech seemed relatively tame and harmless, but I suppose the biting sarcasm was too much for Jace and Luke to accept; even though the placing of the cooked pig in front of Aemond was a much sicker and cleverer burn.

- All this childbearing and subsequent naming of kids after other people is making things wildly confusing for both the audience and now some of the characters in the story. Stop having so many offspring!

Edited October 10, 2022 by Roccos Brother

[DigitalCount]

3 minutes ago, Roccos Brother said:

I was wondering when we would see the return of Mysaria, I knew she was going to play a much bigger role in coming episodes. Props to the costume department, everyone's outfits looked gorgeous tonight.

Was one of the servants reporting to her? It didn't look like Dyana.

[Roccos Brother]

4 minutes ago, DigitalCount said:

Was one of the servants reporting to her? It didn't look like Dyana.

I believe that was Talya, Alicent's maid who handed her the tea to give to Dyana.

[MJ Frog]

I would hate to be a member of this family. The reunions are the absolute worst.

[bunnyblue]

I love that Baela warned her father about Vaemond's machinations. Without her warning, Vaemond's plans with the Hightowers would have gone off without a hitch. I thought maybe Baela was estranged from Daemon since she was living with her grandmother but I guess not. It was also nice to see Baela's relief when Rhaenys chose Rhaenyra's side and agreed to the betrothals between the cousins. I hope now that the time jumps are over and these actors are here to stay, Baela & Rhaena will get more to do. 

Is HotD reusing GOT sets? Because the hall in Dragonstone looked very much like Winterfell's of later seasons. The right side sloped wall with the big windows and the fireplace looked straight out of Jon's "King in the North!" scene.

Edited October 10, 2022 by bunnyblue

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, Lamima said:

Well, the queen can keep the pay off if she croaks before leaving the castle. And she had to convince her to drink it. I suspected she was poisoned. But then the servant who brought the tea was the hooded person who we saw with Daemon's old lay (who asked her if it had been a wild night at the castle). So I wondered if she gave her placebo tea so as to allow a pregnancy. Doubtful because I am not sure how that would matter.

Gold, at least in the amount that the servant girl presumably got, is basically nothing for the Queen. I don't think it was much in the way of convincing. I think we can take it face value that it was Plan B tea and not a convoluted murder plot by Alicent. Otherwise, she would not have been as upset with Aegon as she was. Admittedly, Ali was as upset or more that raping Dyana was disrespect to Hel, but grading on a curve for her time/setting, she seemed genuinely upset, and not in a "Look who you made me murder! Good help is so hard to find" sort of way.

1 hour ago, aghst said:

She may not have poisoned her but she's covering up for her rapist son.

Surprised though that she cares about some servant being raped by her son.  Wasn't it one of the perks of nobility, that they have their way with the women who have no status at all?

Then again, maybe they're trying to show how religious Alicent has become?  So after slashing her stepdaughter, she's now more pious, not so overtly bloodthirsty -- Jace and Luke no longer have to worry about their eyes?

I know Driftmark is suppose to be a big asset and the Velaryons huge allies but did the king always decide succession for other houses?  Didn't seem to be the case in GoT at all.

Yeah even if Alicent didn't get what she's going to claim is Viserys' last dying wish, she would have sooner or later been pressing claims for Agon, her useless son.

BTW, Raynera and Damon got busy didn't they, didn't waste time, 2 more sons and one more in the oven in the intervening years.  It's not like if Jace and Luke are denied, her youngest sons would have claim to the Iron Throne?

Well Jace and Luke are handicapped then as Amond has a half a foot of height and maybe 50 pounds on poor little Luke then.

I dunno. Ali was the first to take a step to forgive Rhae, and seemed genuinely to want to make amends. We'll never tell really what she would have done if she wasn't misled into thinking that Viserys was telling her that Aegon HAD to be king on his deathbed.

Note that Ali has taken to wearing the seven-pointed star necklace, which I at least don't remember seeing her sport in previous episodes. That is the symbol of the Faith of the Seven. 

In GOT, there were not really open or nearly open disputes about legitimacy in the same way. But if there had been, probably it would fall to the Crown to settle them. The default presumably is that the first son inherits everything, second sons and other relatives are required to live off the heir's largesse. Here, Vaemond knew that the boys were illegitimate, and thought he had allies he could count on to rule in his favor, so he gave it a shot. 

[DigitalCount]

Quick note: the symbolism of Viserys's face being withered by disease on the Queen's side where Alicent and Otto were was simply perfect for at least two reasons: he didn't allow himself to see their machinations, and the rot came from them.

[Oscirus]

I'll be in the minority but I'll say it, Rhae's kids and damon's kids are boring as shit. Only kid of note from the four is Jace and thats only cuz hes about to be king. While we're at it, shouldn't Luke be a rhaenys ward since he's going to be ruling Drift mark. Why do you have the one person trained in running Drift mark by her grandmother as the queen on the iron throne. Should've swapped the girls.

Aemond's that dude you want having your back. Everybody else preparing to rule or whatever else and this dude is prepared to go to war.  I get the feeling if he catches luke or jace alone in an alley, it'll be curtains for them. Aegon on the other hand is gonna be the epitome of a bad king, drunk lustful, no filter.  This civil war, green will go as far as aemond can carry them.

Beware the beast beneath the boards wonder what that means.

So it sounds like rhaenys and corlys have gone through the westeros version of a divorce. Six years seems a long time to be gone without returning home. I reckon laenors death really did break him.  If he does survive I dont imagine that he can let the death of his son and his brother stand. Especially since its from the same people.

Removing all the shades of grey from Daemons character is ruining the character. I know the beheading of Vaemond was supposed to show that hes still an anti-hero, but it seemed more try hard than anything.

Rhaenyras a good mother, but Im gonna need more from her.  I love that Alicent already seems in over her head.

Nice final supper for Viserys, you will be missed.

[Avabelle]

The show attempting to legitimise Alicents motivations as anything other than selfishness, hate and power hungry continue to fall flat. Really? She’s gone back to wanting to take the throne because of thr in-cohesive words of a dying man? Sure show. I wish she’d just own her actions. By not owning them she just comes off as even more frustrating.

[Cristofle]

6 hours ago, ShannaB said:

He walks like Matt Smith as well.

That's what I noticed when he was walking away. Matt has a very distinctive walk, lol, as Doctor Who fans well remember too. Aemond was doing that walk. 

[magdalene]

4 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I hope she will get the dagger from Viserys before the war starts...

How can she get it though? It looks like AegonII aka the rapist will get it.  Talk about being unworthy of it.

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, deaja said:

Hugging someone while telling her no one would believe she was raped is not really a hug of comfort as much as manipulation.

No, it was the simple truth at that kind of society and age.

A woman accusing a man for raping her must have people who testify that they hear her to cry and/or saw her clothes were torn. A servant had no chance against her master, still less a prince. Alicent showed kindness towards the girl that was really rare.    

It was another matter if the offer was a lady who had a powerful family as the rape was considered a crime not against the woman herself but against her father or husband.     

[magdalene]

3 hours ago, Roccos Brother said:

- Aemond's speech seemed relatively tame and harmless, but I suppose the biting sarcasm was too much for Jace and Luke to accept; even though the placing of the cooked pig in front of Aemond was a much sicker and cleverer burn.

Daemon and Rhaenyra should have prepped the boys about not giving in to goading.  

However, Aemond is twice the size and a very skilled fighter and clearly hasn't forgotten who sliced out his eye. And with Viserys' death he is off the leash.

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, Lamima said:

Well, the queen can keep the pay off if she croaks before leaving the castle. And she had to convince her to drink it. I suspected she was poisoned.

There was absolutely no reason to poison the girl. If she had told about the rape, nobody had cared - it was just what masters did. Alicent could have sent her away in shame and without a coin - that was the normal way of a mother and wife to behave in such cases.

[Roseanna]

The good thing in this episode was the discussion between Viserys and Rhaenyra. She had finally realized that by naming her as his heir he divided the realm but then didn't give her the support she needed. Of course that has been seen to the audience all the time. 

This society seems really barbaric - is there no laws or courts? How can people kill ech other without any consequeces even in the presence of king?   

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, AntFTW said:

No one mentioned politics 😂

It is all politics. 

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, Oscirus said:

So it sounds like rhaenys and corlys have gone through the westeros version of a divorce. Six years seems a long time to be gone without returning home.

That was common irl: the shame of divorce was prevented when teh husband left for America but the wife stayed back. 

[cambridgeguy]

5 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

This society seems really barbaric - is there no laws or courts? How can people kill ech other without any consequeces even in the presence of king?

Vaemond had just declared himself a traitor and the King said he was going to remove his tongue.  He wasn't an innocent, and while Daemon went a little overboard with the punishment being the King's brother has it perks when it comes to getting away with things. 

I know it helps show what type of guy he is, but Aemond and Criston are insane for sparring with a real flail and no armor.  Flails are unpredictable and Aemond doesn't have an eye to spare.  Even with armor getting hit by a flail would really hurt, without it he'd be laid up for weeks.

[paigow]

44 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

I know it helps show what type of guy he is, but Aemond and Criston are insane for sparring with a real flail and no armor.

And shows that Criston is the Sensei Who Was Promised

[Scarlett45]

56 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Vaemond had just declared himself a traitor and the King said he was going to remove his tongue.  He wasn't an innocent, and while Daemon went a little overboard with the punishment being the King's brother has it perks when it comes to getting away with things. 

Yeah. Viserys said he would have his tongue- Daemon just got there first.

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

There was absolutely no reason to poison the girl. If she had told about the rape, nobody had cared - it was just what masters did. Alicent could have sent her away in shame and without a coin - that was the normal way of a mother and wife to behave in such cases.

Yeah no, Alicent didn’t poison her. She gave her some money and moon tea. Alicent has adopted religion and she’s not a sadist. She probably treats her servants really well and is personally fed up that her first born son is such a douche bag.  

[Nicmar]

9 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

Did Rhaenyra and Daemon really name their first son Aegon?  It's bad enough having so many similar names, now we have 2 living characters with the exact same name.

Was Joffrey supposed to youngest boy at the table?  because when one- eyed Targaryen  did the Toast he mentioned Joffrey. I am getting confused with the same names as well.😆

[paigow]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yeah. Viserys said he would have his tongue- Daemon just got there first.

Daemon: FFS Brother, this episode is already too long. Nobody needs to see more staggering

[Scarlett45]

40 minutes ago, Nicmar said:

Was Joffrey supposed to youngest boy at the table?  because when one- eyed Targaryen  did the Toast he mentioned Joffrey. I am getting confused with the same names as well.😆

No Joffrey wasn’t there. He would be a small child (approx 6).  Aemond was just throwing shade mentioning all of the boys fathered by Strong. Joffrey and Rhaenyra’s sons with Daemond weren’t at the dinner (likely too young and having to have the little kids in an unnecessary scene). 

[Pestilentia]

6 hours ago, Roccos Brother said:

subsequent naming of kids after other people is making things wildly confusing for both the audience and now some of the characters in the story.

It seems a particular failing of this genre- names way too similar that could easily have been made more distinguishable. We get Aemon/Aemond/Aegon and Rhaenys/Rhaenyra nonsense just like the Arwyn/Eowyn and Sauron/Saruman ridiculosity.

Why must they make it so difficult?

Because it is difficult and seems intentionally so.

[Affogato]

7 minutes ago, Pestilentia said:

It seems a particular failing of this genre- names way too similar that could easily have been made more distinguishable. We get Aemon/Aemond/Aegon and Rhaenys/Rhaenyra nonsense just like the Arwyn/Eowyn and Sauron/Saruman ridiculosity.

Why must they make it so difficult?

Because it is difficult and seems intentionally so.

I think all the Aegons are befuddling but I never found Tolkien confusing. Usually in Tolkien the context is different, for in thing and they don’t all have the same job. Except for Durins.