S19.E12: Finale Part 2

[eyelash]

4 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

Rachel is awful. Her hate-glare at Tino was so intense. The man she said she loved and wanted to marry.

He apologized, she didn't like the words he used, so she belittled him in a condescending tone.  

Sorry, I know everyone has moved on, I'm watching it on a delay.  I don't like the way the show treated Tino. He screwed up, he apologized,  he's treated like the worst guy in the world. And the audience was prepped to go apeshit when Aven came on. Cruel that he took off with Rachel while Tino was still there.

Dear Rachel, when you relentlessly punish a man him for telling you the truth, he'll never make that mistake again.  Your choices are to forgive or leave.  You don't just stay around and kick a dead horse.  

[geej]

How did that that whole room, host and all get itso wrong?! Look at this crazy woman. Take off your blinders. We are not a bunch of men-haters. Poor Tino(I hate saying that tho) Was it appeasing Racheal, or building up  an endlessly deep welled ego?

I can beat horse racheal as long as the room can keep betting horse tino.

[LakeGal]

Rachel's dad sure had a tight grip on her mom.  Every time the camera showed them her dad was squeezing her tighter.  Rachel's mom looked uncomfortable at times with how she had to sit.

[phlebas]

In a funnier universe, it would have been Clayton demanding to come talk to Rachel instead of Aven.

[DEL901]

So, I was thinking about Rachel and her final three. 

First she was into Zach, maybe not as much as the others, but she did like that he was in love with her and ready to propose, but in the Fantasy Suite he said something that offended her.  He tried nine ways to Sunday to apologize, but she was over him and refused to accept that his words didn’t insult her character, even after he came on the Finale part 1 and grovelled some more, he was dead to her.

Then Aven met her family, said something that offended her and he was no longer the one she wanted and she refused to accept his explanation or even try to understand his perspective   Then he came on the Finale Part 1 and grovelled some more but she refused to accept his POV or apology.

Then Tino proposed   They had some problems they wouldn’t talk about on camera, had a fight where she may have said or threatened to give back the ring   Tino went out to a bar, presumably had a few drinks, ran into a woman he knew, she provided a sympathetic ear and he kissed her   Then, eaten up by guilt, but knowing how Rachel reacted to anything that didn’t meet her definition of the perfect relationship, initially planned to just pretend it didn’t happen, but he confessed, she refused to listen to or accept any of his context or his grovelling.  Then they came on the Finale…lather, rinse, repeat.

But she wasn’t as distraught as I expected, but then we find out why, the show, either through bribery, coercion or threats, got Aven to come out and ask for another chance…. Then they disappeared forever, because you just know she started berating Aven again and the show wanted to maintain the illusion of a happy ending for Rachel   

Edited September 21, 2022 by DEL901

[Back Atcha]

3 hours ago, geej said:

How did that that whole room, host and all get itso wrong?!

I'd bet they're prepped by Production to show the reaction wanted for broadcast.  Even Rachel said that "everything" wasn't shown in their conversations.  It's manipulation, manipulation, manipulation.

3 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

First she was into Zach, maybe not as much as the others, but she did like that he was in love with her and ready to propose, but in the Fantasy Suite he said something that offended her.  

He also said that she was one person when the cameras were on but a completely different person in the Fantasy Suite.  I'm sure we'll hear more about St. Rachel.

4 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

 He tried nine ways to Sunday to apologize, but she was over him and refused to accept that his words didn’t insult her character, even after he came on the Finale part 1 and grovelled some more, he was dead to her  

That was part of his contract.  "Ya wanna be The Bachelor, Zach? We have a couple of things you need to do first."

[nlkm9]

11 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

Dumping all the guys ahead of time eliminates one of the most exciting elements of the finale, which is seeing the limo door open and the loser's shoe stick out.  They have really stripped all the excitement and suspense out of the finale just to have shocking moments in the episodes leading up to it.  

So many seasons up until that final moment when the foot sticks out of the car was so exciting!!!!!! This was for sure a let down……

[Katie111]

Tino had to watch the season while dating her.  He had to see her kiss everyone in sight as much as possible, barely have any conversations with the other men, and spin completely out of control every time a man rejected her.  Then when he wanted to see her, she was telling him that she was “too tired” from doing press and if he wanted to see her, she would be sleeping in a separate room.  This is all on top of whatever “secret issue” she was going through.   So he got annoyed and reconnected with someone he knew prior to the show.  And kissed her.  Just like he was watching Rachel kiss 10-20 guys a week.  Yes it was in the past, but he was watching it in real time while dating her.  And I’m sure he wasn’t allowed to say one word to her about it or he was not being “loyal”.  She is just completely exhausting and does NOTHING to see the other person’s POV. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Katie111

[nlkm9]

3 hours ago, geej said:

How did that that whole room, host and all get itso wrong?! Look at this crazy woman. Take off your blinders. We are not a bunch of men-haters. Poor Tino(I hate saying that tho) Was it appeasing Racheal, or building up  an endlessly deep welled ego?

I can beat horse racheal as long as the room can keep betting horse tino.

Thats the bachelor narrative. I really felt bad for tino! That was odd when he went outside abd called someone on his cell phone… and rachel chased him outside .

as far as Aven, wouldnt it be rich if they ended up “ dating” after rachel demanded an engagement? I dont care what jessa said. There is no way to force the audience to root for Rachel. What a mean person she is. 

[nlkm9]

8 hours ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

I hope she's just visiting. I absolutely would not watch the show if she were on it. I never thought I'd see a Bachelorette who made me think Andi (Dorfman?) wasn't so bad. Rachel is orders of magnitude worse.

Deanna or katie. Even jen, who was so clearly disinterested because she was dating someone during the filming.

[nlkm9]

10 hours ago, EllenB said:

She's Jake and he's Vienna.

Omg!! I thought the very same thing!!!!!!!! At least jake and vienna looked estatic on one of the happy couple weekends they showed us.

[nlkm9]

9 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

Who knew you had to be a monk for months before applying for the show. This is nonsense. 

Exactly. And how we know folks keep and screen ahot every last text message to save as future proof they were wronged. Its ridiculous.

[Back Atcha]

30 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

So many seasons up until that final moment when the foot sticks out of the car was so exciting!!!!!! This was for sure a let down……

Can you type JUMP THE SHARK ?

[Jillibean]

Oy, Rachel. That's all I have on that one.

Tino's hair looked ridiculous and he seemed a bit less than sober to me during the secret weekend visit disaster.

Those text messages seem like a whole not of nothing. When I saw them a few days ago, my immediate thought was that he had told Gabby, hence the last text after filming that clearly struck me as the sort of apology you make after a woman you're truly infatuated with informs you that you behaved badly and owe someone an apology. There was nothing about it that suggested he was trying to get back together or gauging her interest in doing so. So his explanation that he wanted to end things and saw this as a convenient way and that he had already told Gabby about it rang true to me. 

It struck me as very odd that no one mentioned the death of Erich's father, which was surely a more emotional and difficult thing to deal with as a long distance couple than the text message scandal. 

[Jax7917]

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

AVEN NO! RUN FOR IT! RUN! YOU CAN DO BETTER!

eh, they've done stuff like this before.. I think with Tyler Cameron coming back for Hannah after the Jed stuff. I think the producers want to show that there's some happy ending for the lead so they pay the runner up to come back to ask the lead to "catch up" but pretty sure after the episode is over, they never contact each other again.

[TVMovieBuff]

3 hours ago, LakeGal said:

Rachel's dad sure had a tight grip on her mom.  Every time the camera showed them her dad was squeezing her tighter.  Rachel's mom looked uncomfortable at times with how she had to sit.

Thank you! It it so icky the way Big Tony ALWAYS has his arm around his wife, stroking her arm. I am sure this will be an unpopular opinion, that most will think it is "sweet" that he still does this after decades together, but I find it smarmy and cloying and sort if controlling and proprietary. Rachel's mom seems to shrink into her seat. 

I do think Rachel did the right thing, giving Tino the heave-ho after the "kiss" with the other girl. She is smart enough to know it might have gone way beyond one kiss. But she really sweated him, over every word or nuance he had. It's just as well. 

[DEL901]

A psychologist once said that in some relationships, “one partner loves and the other is loved”.   Rachel needs a partner who will walk on egg shells and bend over backwards to ensure she is happy and apologize/grovel when she isn’t.   There are some men  (and women) whose love language is acts of service, who put their partner’s wants and needs before their own and that’s the kind of man she needs to be looking for, not one’s looking for a partnership of equals.  

Edited September 21, 2022 by DEL901

[Jax7917]

10 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Why is Gabby wearing a seatbelt (excuse me, I've only just now paid close attention to what she's wearing)?

Also it's clear that Gabby has completely drank what Erich's selling. Now I'm not saying he's lying or full of shit. Just saying it's clear she's not willing to give him up because of this ex-girlfriend situation. She was head nodding like crazy as he spoke.

It's hard to get mad at someone for coming on the show for the wrong reasons when virtually everyone else does too. He just happened to have it in writing. 

[JenE4]

Did someone die?! Jesse is so somber and the audience is completely silent. Jesse is wearing his funeral suit. Oh, nevermind. After a moment of Thoughts & Prayers for the gal pals, the audience goes wild.

Gabby says, “This decision [to get engaged] shouldn’t be easy. Because if it’s easy, it means you didn’t think about it enough.” It’s actually pretty easy once you know your partner well enough that you are certain you’re aligned in how your life will be together, but I guess that doesn’t apply when you’ve known each other for 1.5 to 2 months and has been dating up to 30 other people at the same time.

But, just like that, Gabby’s crisis is adverted in the first 5 minutes. This doesn’t bode well for Rachel. Jesse has prepared us for a funeral, and it looks like it’s going to be the death of Rachel’s journey.

Tino is shaking his head no as he’s telling Rachel they’re on the same page and he feels like she’s made for him. His face fell for a second when she said, “it’s you!” This man was here for second place and The Bachelor gig.

”Are you ready for more Kardashians?!” Jesse, you can take your Kardashians and Bros and go to hell.

Tears of joy for once. But will it be short-lived? (my brain says in Jesse’s voice)

This resort looks amazing!! Anyone know where/what it is? Someplace in Mexico, I think? 

Too many water features! Once again, they apparently don’t do a sound check at proposal pointe.

The picture-in-picture of Rachel and her parents are letting us know not to be swept up in the romance. Tino gives a deep sigh and starts off with “I know you’ve been blindsided in the past…” I think this is classic foreshadowing: “You’ve seen love given and taken away.” Now he’s telling us he’s fake as hell: “This is going to look too good to be true to some people.”

We’re “going to witness something we’ve never seen before and may need a glass of wine for this”?! Sir, I’m about to start work, so I need to get through this stone-cold sober. If they break up in the interim, then, yeah, we’ve seen that before. If Rachel decides to trade back to Aven, we’ve seen that, too. Now if Gabby and Rachel decide they found love with each other, I’ll hand it to you that that’s something new.

Erich’s the one with previous relationships coming to light! What’s Tino’s previous relationship drama? If a finalist cheated and the mistress didn’t run straight to Reality Steve, did it really happen? Deep thoughts to ponder.

Well, spoiler alert! Gabby shows up to give support to Rachel wearing a huge-ass diamond ring. Which ring does everyone prefer: Rachel’s rectangle or Gabby’s oval? Both are gorgeous.

Tino brought the receipts! 👏 I kind of love that he wrote down every terrible thing she said and is reading it back to her. I also like that Tino has a pen so he can write down all of the terrible things that Rachel is going to say in this fight, too, lol. Okay, Jesse. This has never happened before. The closest was some F2 leaving his journal on the Bachelorette’s doorstep hoping for a second chance; I think it may have been Ari and Emily.

okay, I do think Rachel is making a big deal saying “you are cheating on me” as if it’s ongoing when it was one kiss. I mean, how many guys did she kiss on this journey? She slept with Aven like 2-3 days before they’d engagement. Tino seems genuinely broken up about this, crying when he doesn’t know he’s on camera. This is something they could work through, but Rachel seems dead-set on punishing him. This is the age-old Ross vs Rachel “we were on a break” argument. I’m team Ross—and, surprisingly, also taking Tino’s “side” here. Wait. Who’s he calling with his shirt unbuttoned?! If he’s like sexting with that girl, lol, it’s all over. Oh, I think he took his shirt off to pull off his mic. 

Rachel is angry that he isn’t sorry and blamed her, but then she says with total disdain that he sent her a letter apologizing and taking responsibility. So he did give you what you wanted to hear? Listen, she has every right to say this is a deal breaker and move on, but I just don’t like how she’s painting him to be the villain and all of Bachelor Nation is cheering along. I mean, I went into this assuming he was the villain, and somehow that interaction at the house changed me to his side, just like how when we saw her interaction with Aven and realizing that’s exactly how she treated Zach, too. I think this woman is stubborn and so self-involved that ONLY her feelings matter, and she has already decided what YOUR feelings and motivations are, and nothing you can say will budge her. We saw this happen with all THREE guys now!!

Okay, I have to pause here. I’ll pick up later with Tino coming out on stage. Looking forward to reading everyone’s comments after I make it through the episode.

[phlebas]

We could use a thread about this entire season, not just specific episodes.  I think there are interesting things to talk about regarding the season as a whole.

[Jax7917]

Ironically, Rachel talking to Tino is the ONLY time she didn't cry. She cried over Logan who she didn't even know and cried over the rest of them, but not her fiance. 

I think Tino is an asshole and I get the verbal beat down that she gave him. He has a very insincere way about him and comes off very smarmy. But Tino aside, Rachel just needs to give dating a rest until she gets help. She is always the "scorned woman" and may say that she takes responsibility for her part and that she is not perfect, but deep down we know she thinks she's perfect. She wanted the engagement/ring/ cover of the magazine more than the right guy so that's what you get. Gabby had far from a perfect journey and cried too but she wasn't whiny and nagging about every little thing. Speaking of her, we never got Jason or Johnny in the hot seat and I assume the show just didn't have time for an extra shit show or conversation because there was so much other drama going on. Truly, their season was embarrassing for them. I did find it more entertaining as a viewer than other seasons and I actually looked forward to watching but the girls really did not have good love stories at all .

On another note, Tino looked like a homeless man with that hair. And Erich, just chop the mullet already, it looks terrible!

[Black Knight]

1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

It struck me as very odd that no one mentioned the death of Erich's father, which was surely a more emotional and difficult thing to deal with as a long distance couple than the text message scandal. 

I'd like to think the show felt it would be insensitive to make Erich talk about his father's death.

More likely, they figured it'd be the kind of buzzkill where it would be too hard to get back to promoting BiP/Bachelorette and Kardashians and whatever afterwards.

I do wonder what it was that Rachel and Tino were holding back from the audience at AFR. I'm not going to opine on that twosome because it seems like whatever they were holding back is key information to understanding what happened.

[JenE4]

Oh, today is my lucky day! I just had a  1.5 hour meeting canceled. Let’s do the damn thing!

Booing, and only 2 people clapping emphatically for the poor oaf. I don’t know how this studio audience is here watching how each of them are talking/acting (the way she’s looking at him!) and they’re all still on Rachel’s “side.” She’s just here to air HIS dirty laundry—doesn’t want to touch on whatever else they both did, which, presumably, is HER dirty laundry. I just said I can’t wear the ring, I didn’t say the engagement was off!! Huh?

They’re bringing Aven out with Tino still sitting there?!? That’s cold! Aven borrowed Nate’s pearls. Aven, you watched all that backstage and are still going out there to shoot your shot?! Run, Aven, run! Go talk to Michelle in the studio audience!

Talk about “family TV”! Just saw a full inch of Gabby’s “bikini area” in that dress. Yikes! Okay, so these two are obviously still engaged despite the ominous headlines. 

Jesse has the receipts, too! He is saying this text exchange is from “before you met Gabby.” What about the text he sent AFTER he was engaged to Gabby?! If we’re going to put Tino through the wringer, what about Erich? Whelp, these two are showing how you don’t throw the relationship away over a minor blip. Good luck to these two (genuinely, not sarcastically as I would normally say).

How is there another hour left?!? Please don’t tell me we’re going to have to watch the Kardashians go on a Virgin Cruise or one Bro propose to the other Bro with a Neal Lane ring.

Zach seems endearing. I hope he finds someone Here for the Right Reasons. I’ve always been a Wrong Reasons watcher, but, damn, this level of drama was exhausting! We need a romance reset.

Brooklyn got her entire opening beeped?! Well, I missed voting, but she sure wouldn’t get my vote. I would have voted for Bailey. “The mornin’ Baelin” ooh! So close! Lol. She should have had a jingle like Co-stan-za!

Ooh! Zach throwing some shade at Rachel on his way out the door: I lived it last season with someone throwing out the words and not being genuine with the feelings behind it.

[Alexander Pope]

Speaking of creepy patriarchs, I found the whole--Sean, please advise Zach who looks up to you while keeping your arm around your wife and mother of your three children in the smuggest way possible really annoying.  I don't think Katherine would have said a word had Jesse not asked her to speak.  He is "Bachelor Royalty"--all bow down!!  Give me single metrosexual Nick any day. 

I once saw an episode of WIFESWAP which was Jason and Molly swapping with Sean and Katherine.  Poor Molly had to cook Sean his plain ground turkey every night and serve her man.  Katherine had a lovely vacation.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Alexander Pope

[TomGirl]

4 hours ago, Katie111 said:

4 hours ago, Katie111 said:

So he got annoyed and reconnected with someone he knew prior to the show.  And kissed her.  Just like he was watching Rachel kiss 10-20 guys a week.

Excellent point!

[TVMovieBuff]

55 minutes ago, Alexander Pope said:

Speaking of creepy patriarchs, I found the whole--Sean, please advise Zach who looks up to you while keeping your arm around your wife and mother of your three children in the smuggest way possible really annoying.  I don't think Katherine would have said a word had Jesse not asked her to speak.  He is "Bachelor Royalty"--all bow down!!  Give me single metrosexual Nick any day. 

I once saw an episode of WIFESWAP which was Jason and Molly swapping with Sean and Katherine.  Poor Molly had to cook Sean his plain ground turkey every night and serve her man.  Katherine had a lovely vacation.

Ha that's so funny. Catherine does look beautiful though. I knew Sean is sort of rigid but I think he is probably the most decent guy who has ever been the Bachelor lead. 

Talk about keeping your arm around your wife, I nominate Big Tony for the most sickening display of that. 

[SHD]

2 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I do wonder what it was that Rachel and Tino were holding back from the audience at AFR. I'm not going to opine on that twosome because it seems like whatever they were holding back is key information to understanding what happened.

Same! And whatever it was, Rachel was sure it was something more embarrassing for him the way she said "You REALLY want to go there?!"

[Starlight925]

Catherine (of Sean & Catherine) looked completely different to me.  I actually wondered at first, who that woman was with Sean.

If I have to look at Kaitlyn's distorted face once more, I'm going to scream.

Did anyone else notice the "Where's Alex?" sign that someone was holding up?  The first Bachelor, Alex, who famously rejected Trista, has apparently been missing from the franchise this whole time.  Chris Harrison made mention of it a couple of years ago, that they were assembling past bachelors, and not only could they not locate him, but they asked the audience to send in any info about him.  

Sorry to go against the grain here on this thread, as I never liked Rachel.  But Tino?  Sorry, he's an a-hole.  I'd have never spoken to him again.  He just "happened" to go to a bar, just "happened" to run into this girl, they just "happened" to kiss.....and oh, he felt bad about telling Rachel.  

Rachel and her breathy/kissy thing she did with Clayton annoyed the heck out of me, and I didn't like Tino from night one.  

But no one deserves that.  

With Tino's little diary, he was trying to throw things in her face to show his reasons for kissing the other girl.  Dude, you were still in a relationship.  Throw your journal away.  And Rachel countered each point by saying these things were taken out of context.  I, too, would have been pissed.  

We've all made individual statements, especially in the heat of arguments, that could be picked apart and taken out of context.  And then the other person throws those statements back in our face.  Maybe it's just me that that's happened to.

While Erich's texting situation was different, he told Gabby about it, he acknowledged that he was in the wrong, she said that she had told him he treated that girl like an a-hole, and he sat there, agreed, was apologetic, and took ownership.  Like a mullet-wearing man.  (dude, get a haircut, please).

Edited September 21, 2022 by Starlight925

[Melonie77]

14 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

Zach's showing the most interest in Bailey, asking her questions, and she interrupts him to say her memorized lines.

Is Cat the villainness for next season?

Yes, he asked her what she did for a living. She seemed the most natural and down to earth. I didn't care for Cat at all and agree with those who said she looks a lot older.
I hope they get Zach a decent bunch of girls who are age-appropriate and not a passel of surgery enhanced phonies out to enhance their brands. 

I felt bad for Zach last night. He seemed nervous and uncomfortable yet he never appeared self-conscious during the Bachelorette season.
But he's bright and funny so I'm sure he will get into the swing of things very quickly! It looks like the show may bring Sean Lowe around to advise him during the season. I think they should bring on Uncle Patrick as Zach's wingman!🤣

[dizzyd]

5 hours ago, DEL901 said:

A psychologist once said that in some relationships, “one partner loves and the other is loved”.   Rachel needs a partner who will walk on egg shells and bend over backwards to ensure she is happy and apologize/grovel when she isn’t.   There are some men  (and women) whose love language is acts of service, who put their partner’s wants and needs before their own and that’s the kind of man she needs to be looking for, not one’s looking for a partnership of equals.  

I don’t think it’s fair for anyone to be the sole giver in a relationship and I can’t imagine anyone with any self respect wanting to be part of such a relationship with Rachel. I don’t know the woman at all but everything I’ve seen from her tells me she believes she’s always right and anyone who disagrees with her is wrong. Any discussion to resolve conflicts is no one-sided it’s a waste of time and breath. I’m by no means taking Tino’s side, the guy was a disgusting MCP way before this episode. Also no one should have to settle but there’s a difference between not settling and being an autocrat. She treated everyone like they were trash and beneath her and not worth her time. One of the biggest red flags of the season was when she threw a tantrum because all her guys didn’t pay attention to her when they were watching Gabby’s group date. Unless she does some serious introspection and acknowledges her faults, she doesn’t look like she’s changing her stripes. Given that she’s surrounded by people who enable this behavior and keep saying she’s been through a lot (a lot of what? Meltdowns everytime things didn’t go her way), I don’t see that happening unless someone gives her some tough love. I will even go so far as to say after watching this season, that Rachel is an embarrassment to the female sex, harsh, but that’s my feminine opinion. 

In regards to Tony’s arm around his wife, I have to disagree with the general opinion that it’s smarmy possessiveness but rather him getting strength and support from holding his partner, especially since he was there to watch his baby in the hot seat for a 3h live show. 

Eta: did anyone watch GMA this morning for their appearances and did Rachel show up with Aven? I didn’t see anything on the media thread and was wondering what happened with them after they left. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by dizzyd

[eyelash]

8 hours ago, LakeGal said:

Rachel's dad sure had a tight grip on her mom.  Every time the camera showed them her dad was squeezing her tighter.  Rachel's mom looked uncomfortable at times with how she had to sit.

I watch a series on YouTube where a panel of body language experts show clips and give their comments.  One thing they have repeatedly covered is examples of men with their arms around women, and they point out how to tell when the grip is more about "comtainment" (to prevent her speaking or leaving) than protection or affection.  Rachel's dad's grip on his wife looked like textbook containment to me.

[tinkerbell]

At the beginning of the show, Rachel was telling Gabby about Tino's "cheating".   Gabby said "he didn't even apologize?"  And Rachel answered with something like "well, he did, but he didn't say - I was wrong, I"m so sorry,  I realized that this was awful, I hope you can forgive me, I'll spend the rest of my life making it up to you.........."  

Rachel's point was that yes, he DID apologize, took responsibility, but he didn't do it in the words I would have preferred.  That is what Rachel is all about.  She has expectations of exactly how people need to act and talk, and if they don't live up to her standards, she wants nothing to do with them.  Just like any of her final 3 men -  they could say they love her and want a future with her, and she can say the same. but if they dare to say that they are not ready to propose, then she i ready to cut them loose.  

If TIno watched parts of the season, what did he see?   Rachel falling in love with  a couple of guys who were not himself.  he saw her push for an engagement, and be ready to be engaged to Aven if he would propose.  He saw her making out with numerous guys, and telling them she "saw a future"  with them. He saw what we all saw -  a woman who was so desperate to be engaged that she would agree to marry any of the guys who asked.   So - he was at a bar, a woman approached him, he made out with her.  Then he told Rachel about it.  Because he felt guilty?  Maybe, or maybe he worried that someone at the bar use their phone to record him and he knew that would come back to burn him later.   

He apologized, tried to make it right, but Rachel would not settle for anything less than the fairytale she had written for herself.  

Is it wrong to kiss someone else when you're engaged?  yes, of course.   But being ENGAGED usually means both parties have stopped dating others for some time.  Rachel and Tino were "Bachelor Engaged"  which is not exactly the same thing.  

[Melonie77]

21 minutes ago, Starlight925 said:

If I have to look at Kaitlyn's distorted face once more, I'm going to scream.

Did anyone else notice the "Where's Alex?" sign that someone was holding up?  The first Bachelor, Alex, who famously rejected Trista, has apparently been missing from the franchise this whole time.  Chris Harrison made mention of it a couple of years ago, that they were assembling past bachelors, and not only could they not locate him, but they asked the audience to send in any info about him.  

While Erich's texting situation was different, he told Gabby about it, he acknowledged that he was in the wrong, she said that she had told him he treated that girl like an a-hole, and he sat there, agreed, was apologetic, and took ownership.  Like a mullet-wearing man.  (dude, get a haircut, please).

I can't get over Kaitlyn's face either! She's had surgery multiple times and IMO with each "enhancement" she has looked different but never better. She looks like she's morphing into an alien-like creature. Sadly she's gone from someone who was attractive to unattractive and obviously nipped and tucked. 
It's a shame that some of the other Bachelor Nation past bachettes have also gone under the knife when they did not need any work. This franchise has a dangerous underside played out in this contagious desire to plasticize appearances.

What an odd story about the first bachelor Alex. I read an account from someone who had attended the taping of one of the live bachelor shows as a member of the audience, and she said the producers decide on the content of the signs the audience holds up. They have their assistants make them. I wonder why they wanted Alex brought up last night.

Erich's hair never bothered me all season until last night! I don't know if I just didn't notice it or he had a different cut but I don't like how he has larger sections of the sides short. And his hair is curly so it sticks out too much in the back. That's a weird type of mullet.

[SassyCat]

Speaking of Tino’s journal, I think I know why he had one, started using one in the first place, and brought it with him to his discussion time with Rachel. 

She seems to be gaslighter extraordinaire, a very common trait of Narcissists. He certainly looked beaten down and flustered during this face to face time he had with her starting from the time he knocked on her door. He kept notes of what was actually said as the proof he needed to keep her from twisting his words of past, or outright lying about what was said, and to try and keep his ever dwindling sanity, while trying to communicate with this angry person. 

Everything she said was “taken out of context” she claimed, so that again, there is no fault on her part, it all again falls on him and his inability to read her mind as to what she actually said, versus what she “meant”. 

I was never in any way a fan of Tino, but seeing him wrung out like that and used up and spit out is exactly what narcissists do to people. They are the ones who never accept responsibility in anyway with their dealings with other people. 

No one will ever be loved by Rachael. Narcs don’t know what love is. They have none in their hearts, except for themselves. They only know they want everyone to  agree with them and worship them unconditionally.

Tino instinctively knew at some point during his relationship with her behind closed doors that he had to start protecting himself from the lying twister of his words or even her own suddenly denied, or “taken out of context” words. 

He was a pretty calm cool collected guy when he first stepped out of the limo, and ended up a nervous wreck, flustered, crying, exasperated fool (exactly what narcissists do to a person) who had to walk around with his book of notes, a transcript of conversations with her, in order to try and have proof of her words and have accessibility to his side of what happened without having to wrack his very confused mind as to what he said/she said, and what her CLAIMS were of what was said. He did the right thing for himself, without knowing why he so very badly needed to do so. She was literally driving him crazy! He wanted to make sure he knew what was really going on and was not going crazy. Good for him!

I am sure he started his notebook before he went out a kissed a girl. Thank God he kissed that girl which princess Rachael found too unforgivable to move on from. It made HER look bad and not enough of a woman to keep her man, in her mind. It also is obvious that the bachelorette is not allowed to be spoken badly of in the contract, which Rachael deserved, but all he could do to express his side of the insane way she treated him was to keep detailed notes of what was actually said, and bring those words up.

You can be damn sure too, that she is seething with jealousy at Gabbys good fortune of having a real, successful engagement and the bonus of Dancing with the Stars to advance her time in the spotlight. Just where Rachael always wanted to be, shining above all other humanity. Perfect in every way. Happiness for anothers great fortune is ALWAYS feigned, especially when there is an air of competition with another person, which this whole season shared with Gabby was, in Rachaels mind, I am sure. 

Watch out Gabby! Friendship with Rachael is a dangerous threat to your happiness and wellbeing since you outshined her in every step of this season. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Zach told the truth about Rachel also.  She dumped him for his age and he said she's only a few months older than him. She obviously didn't know how to be assertive and let him down easy so she started blaming him for why she was ending things "I think you're too young and not ready for marriage".  I would be livid! He's always been the same age since the show started so it obviously wasn't that!

From that moment on I saw the Real Rachel. 

I won't excuse what Tino did but there's a looooooooooooooooooooooot not being said.

Did anyone watch Rachel's face right before Aven was brought out?  I don't think I've ever seen somebody so angry on this show.  Why was she so angry (presumably at Jesse) at that part?  She glared at Jesse, or just off camera to where Aven was for a full 3-5 minutes.  It was weird.

Also, Aven is hot - REALLY HOT - but he dumped Rachel because he doesn't want to marry her.  Did anyone forget this?  Everyone on Twitter is oohing and Aaahing over him like he's so wonderful.  Uh, he rejected Rachel.  And when Rachel tried to have a discussion with him about it he was an evasive asshole.

Also, this is one of the worst seasons of The Bachelorette I've ever seen.  I think it was humiliating and downright abusive to Gabby and Rachel.  I don't love them or anything but the way they treated them both was disgusting.  There is no recipe for a long term relationship that comes out of this format, let alone a marriage.  How many men quit?  How many men rejected The Bachelorettes?  It was disgusting.  It was one of the worst ideas ever.  How many times were the men or the leads having a mental breakdown because of the format of the show and Jesse had to coax them back from the ledge? The season was awful.  I don't blame the leads, I blame the show.

Also, Tino's family was disgusting to him.  He needs therapy also.  I wouldn't count on them to give him any kind of help or support or 'reality check'.   He should stay as far away from them as possible.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Melonie77]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Did anyone watch Rachel's face right before Aven was brought out?  I don't think I've ever seen somebody so angry on this show.  Why was she so angry (presumably at Jesse) at that part?  It was weird.

Also, Aven is hot - REALLY HOT - but he dumped Rachel because he doesn't want to marry her.  Did anyone forget this?  Everyone on Twitter is oohing and Aaahing over him like he's so wonderful.  Uh, he rejected Rachel.  And when Rachel tried to have a discussion with him about he was an evasive asshole.

I agree there is a lot not being said. They are hiding some things that happened w/ Tino and something about Rachel herself.

I may be mis-remembering but I thought Rachel was the one that dumped Aven. She told him it was over because he said he wasn't sure if he could propose in a week.

When Jesse said he had someone there that had insisted they wanted to speak to Rachel I thought it might have been the girl Tino kissed! I was thinking maybe they were bringing her out to tell Rachel it meant nothing.
I also thought it might have been Tino's dad!
Rachel looked surprised and I think concerned. Then when she saw it was Aven she launched a big self-satisfied smug smile and I thought I could read her mind saying "I knew he still wanted me". Yuck!

Edited September 21, 2022 by Melonie77

[Melonie77]

15 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Kind of a cute idea, but maybe not great to waste first impression rose on someone who Zach didn’t even choose. It’s not a great…first impression?

Yeah, I hope Zach still gets to give out his OWN first impression rose on the first episode.

[Sweet-tea]

17 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I thought that was Janice Dickinson!

OMG! She looks horrible! I yelped like my beagle when I saw her. 

I don’t really like Tino, but Rachel is nuts! What does she want him to say? And what was the part about her being in therapy and their “difficulties”? Maybe he realized how high maintenance she is and took the easy way out. 

It looks like Rachel’s nose has been tweaked, but it’s subtle. It’s slightly thinner and straighter. Maybe that’s why her face looks fuller. The proportions have changed.

I was so distracted by Gabby’s dress. Is she a stripper now?

Edited September 21, 2022 by Sweet-tea

[EllenB]

It bothers me that Jesse and the show was trying to frame Rachel Retch🤮ia's behavior as some kind of positive woman power thing. Just no. The way Gabby spoke to Clay!-un at the end of last season would be positive woman power: calm, rational, and addressing specific, real problems. Rachel Retch🤮ia was a toddler throwing a tantrum over getting offered the wrong brand of graham crackers, and going on and on and on because it kept the attention  centered on her.

[Back Atcha]

11 minutes ago, EllenB said:

It bothers me that Jesse and the show was trying to frame Rachel Retch🤮ia's behavior as some kind of positive woman power thing. Just no.

Is Jesse Palmer THAT DESPERATE for a job "starring" on a ridiculous reality show that he stoops to PROSTITUTING himself...and dragging that devoted "Bachelor Nation" audience with him?  I rarely watch the show and saw only a few episodes of this one--interested because it seemed so different (and impossible).  I won't be back...but I'll love reading all the comments I can find.

[limecoke]

Ok.  I do not like Tino, however, I totally believe him. Rachel is a trainwreck and if Aven doesn’t see this, poor him.  Tino, consider yourself lucky and go pull yourself together. You didn’t deserve the crap heaped upon you by this stupid show. Rachel, get help. Gabby, you need a stylist. Stripper/hooker is not a good look.

Edited September 21, 2022 by limecoke

[Back Atcha]

1 hour ago, Melonie77 said:

Rachel looked surprised and I think concerned. Then when she saw it was Aven she launched a big self-satisfied smug smile and I thought I could read her mind saying "I knew he still wanted me". Yuck!

And wasn't it wonderful how "professional" Jesse handled the matter?  Everyone is standing there on NATIONAL TELEVISION with a huge budget--with their fingers up their noses.  Where are the producers?  Where is the director? Tino tries to figure out where he should go; what he should do--NO ONE HELPS HIM.  And that audience just sits there gleefully, happy to be members of...You Know What.

[Melonie77]

15 minutes ago, EllenB said:

It bothers me that Jesse and the show was trying to frame Rachel Retch🤮ia's behavior as some kind of positive woman power thing. Just no. The way Gabby spoke to Clay!-un at the end of last season would be positive woman power: calm, rational, and addressing specific, real problems. Rachel Retch🤮ia was a toddler throwing a tantrum over getting offered the wrong brand of graham crackers, and going on and on and on because it kept the attention  centered on her.

I thought Jesse sacrificed Tino last night in order to prop Rachel. Like everyone else has said, Tino was smarmy but didn't deserve the treatment he got. I have a feeling Rachel pitched a huge fit behind the scenes over the outcome of her journey on the show. I bet she really did not like the feedback she got from the public too.
I think the show/Jesse were trying to placate her and find some way to end the season without any more rage filled tantrums. I wouldn't be surprised if she threatened a lawsuit. And I have the feeling that it was productions proposal to bring Aven back and not Aven's idea.

[StatisticalOutlier]

No amount of French speaking is going to redeem Jesse from saying, solemnly, before the footage of Tino and Rachel in that bungalow apparently next to a freeway:  "Bachelor Nation?  I have to warn you that what you're about to see is very rough to watch."  ::roll eyes::

[Melonie77]

11 minutes ago, Back Atcha said:

And wasn't it wonderful how "professional" Jesse handled the matter?  Everyone is standing there on NATIONAL TELEVISION with a huge budget--with their fingers up their noses.  Where are the producers?  Where is the director? Tino tries to figure out where he should go; what he should do--NO ONE HELPS HIM.  And that audience just sits there gleefully, happy to be members of...You Know What.

I felt bad for him too! He looked beaten down. The fact he brought a journal to the Unhappy House was a sign of what he was dealing with.

And yeah, I don't know why Jesse didn't help him and tell him where to go. It's not like Jesse to be an incompetent host - which is one of the reasons why I thought maybe Rachel has been threatening legal action of some sort. Jesse's attitude was off. He also said something about how it was really hard to come to the live show and face all of the discussions and I thought he was finally giving some credit to Tino, but no, he was talking to Rachel again!

No wonder Tino's dad has been making comments on FaceBook. I hope he speaks out again.

[Jaundiced Eye]

I thought I read something once that the Bachelor/Bachelorette franchise conducts psych screenings on cast members before they're hired. Did I just imagine that? There is no way someone with Rachel's apparent psychopathologies could have slipped through. That's the only conceivable grounds for a lawsuit that I can imagine: if the show knowingly allowed a disturbed individual to participate, and as a lead no less!

[Kiss my mutt]

With Zach as the next Bachelor, I guess we won’t get any tea about the fantasy suite, although he’s probably too much of a gentlemen to say anyway but I’m dying to know.

[Artsda]

So Rachel just left like that and Gabby had to deal with the rest of the finale by herself?

I'm happy for Gabby and Erich.

Rachel is psychotic, the way she kept getting angry and going at Tino on tv and even at the fake meet up. I felt bad for him when he was crying to just have her break up with him, it was like he was being held hostage. I don't get how anyone in that audience and the host can not see her as just as bad as Tino.

[DEL901]

8 minutes ago, Artsda said:

So Rachel just left like that and Gabby had to deal with the rest of the finale by herself?

I'm happy for Gabby and Erich.

Rachel is psychotic, the way she kept getting angry and going at Tino on tv and even at the fake meet up. I felt bad for him when he was crying to just have her break up with him, it was like he was being held hostage. I don't get how anyone in that audience and the host can not see her as just as bad as Tino.

I think once she got off stage, there was no way in hell they were letting her back on.  At least the got a kind of happy ending with Gabby and Erich… and he gave her the heads up about his ex before the show.  I don’t see them lasting, but congratulations to them for both being grown up about their issues and trying to see the other side.  Rachel’s problem, or one of them, is that every conflict has only one side….hers.  

[Melonie77]

22 hours ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

I cannot believe the audience is so pro-Rachel. And Blockhead Jesse feeding the frenzy. What a bunch of goofs. I never really liked Tino, but I am 100% Team Tino now. Send Psycho Princess Rachel back to Big Tony. 
I hope Aven is just doing this for screen time or future opportunities.

I think the audience is coached and cued ahead of time. The live shows are basically all staged. I've read different accounts from people who have attended the live shows and they tell how producers guide and direct the audience to react the way THEY want them to. So I think they arranged for this audience to be all pro Rachel.

They even had some audience members prepped with Zach for bachelor posters. How would they know to have these? The crew makes the signs and posters. 

I don't know why Tino put up with being bullied for so long - both at the couple's-visit-house and at the live show. The way he kept going outside the house....it was like he couldn't stand her anymore yet he did not leave the property, he begged the producers to help him end it. What kind of contracts do they sign that he could not just bolt?

The frustrating part was Ratchet kept interrupting him and we couldn't get a clear story.

And the weird part is that Ratchet was so upset over getting dumped by bachelors in the first half of the season but then she dumps all three of her final men in the second half!