S26.E10: Week 9

[nlkm9]

Another thing- go back to each woman being at a different location. Rooming everyone together is sick. I was surprised seeing it on peters season as he was so ridiculous , but i see now this is a “ thing” on both shows and i hate it !!

[nlkm9]

20 hours ago, meatball77 said:

Yup, this my friends is behavior that you don't put up with from a partner.  It's abusive.

He is saying that she's his person but he told the other girls that he loved them and had sex with them.

He's the type of guy who blames the girl for making him cheat.

Thats exactly what i said in my post last nite- he is such a people pleaser and fickle that his head will be turned constantly and he will blame it on the other wonan not himself !!! 

[DEL901]

7 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

I'm really surprised that Clay-en has gone dark and didn't issue the standard Bachelor-speak apology for his actions last night.  I suspect that during filming, the producers egged him on to take his walls down and express his love and explore the relationships in their private time. Maybe he even said but won't it look bad to say ILY and then reject them? They then fed him the standard line that it's all part of the process and part of the journey and each finalist knows that they are risking heartbreak at the end. So go for it! And Clay-en stupidly believed them, because that anger he was directing at the producers last night was meant for them, and it had the feel of someone who did something stupid when he knew it might be stupid but he disregarded his gut feelings and took their advice, which was purposely meant to create drama and not help him or any of the finalists have a happy ending. What a mess.  Anyway, my point is, it doesn't look good to be hiding out from social media when the Bachelor nation is on fire and you set the fire. 

My guess is that there is nothing he can say now that won’t make things worse.   He has to just let the next 2 episodes play out and then mount his defence Tuesday. 

[MoonMountain]

Holy moly.

This whole thing reminded me SO much of my narcissistic/sex addict/bipolar ex. He even vaguely resembles Clayton so it was surreal to watch. 
 

If she was just trying to be the next bachelorette, and that helped Susie get out of this situation, good for her. I’m happily married with a baby on the way, and still discussing the narcissistic abuse and gaslighting I went through in therapy, years and years later. 
 

Also, the word “relationship” has gone from the actual word, to “relayship,” and now I’m sure I hear just “layship” on this show. Lol. 

[TiredMe]

11 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

 

Well, congrats to Juan Pablo whose reputation just improved as well as to all of the women who were previously eliminated during this season.

I’m just going to say that just because Clayton sucks, does not mean that Juan Pablo still does not still suck too. LOL

[ECM1231]

3 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

i remember when everyone hated Nick Viall because he asked Andi what she was thinking doing “fiance stuff” with him when she knew she was picking the other guy.  He got blasted because no one had ever asked that and it looked like a double standard because she was a woman.  But it’s a reasonable question.

Not from me. I always thought it was awesome for Nick to point that out and couldn't understand why everyone thought he was just the biggest jerk for saying it.  I remain firmly Team Viall.  Andi was always just too full of herself. 

[b2H]

2 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Sadly Shanae is not in Iceland.

It wouldn't take that much.  Maybe at the ATFR, since it doesn't appear anyone will be there but him.

[econ07]

3 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

I’ve been thinking about your point (what does that say about my life 🥺) and i still think it is pretty different.  I don’t think that people would have responded the same way if Luke P hadn’t been telling Hannah how ro behave throughout the entire season.  Basically he was acting like a very old school husband throughout the whole season telling her what she should and shouldn’t do.

Susie can be criticized for ignoring what often happens on this show.  But basically Clayton was telling her that he knew she was number 1 but hey he felt like sleeping with the other two anyway.  It was just a bachelor party.  And she was saying if you knew i was number 1 why would you want to.

Also, as people commented above what does this say about his treatment of Rachel and Gabby who each slept with someone who was “falling in love with them” a few days before he was going to dump them (apparently that didn’t dawn on him till after he had “gotten intimate” with someone, err two someones.

i remember when everyone hated Nick Viall because he asked Andi what she was thinking doing “fiance stuff” with him when she knew she was picking the other guy.  He got blasted because no one had ever asked that and it looked like a double standard because she was a woman.  But it’s a reasonable question.

Lol, as much as it says about mine for posting here to begin with.

I don't remember Luke P that well, but do remember him being somewhat of a moralizing jerk, so I'll give you that.  My central point is that many people (men and women) when they think about being proposed to, don't want the person contemplating a proposal to be sleeping with other people at the same time ... and to express difficulty in getting over that (again man or woman) is not slut-shaming but just expressing one's feelings.

[econ07]

2 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

I don't think Susie was slut shaming Clayton at all.  She just stated her truth as to what she herself could and could not accept.

Luke, on the other hand, seemed to be trying to foist his truth on Hannah.  Yes, he was judging her.  

During Hannah's season, I stated here that I felt religion should not be a part of this show and I got some disagreement, too.  Some pointed out that it was important for couples to discuss this topic.  I agree, I just think it should be done during their private time.  Viewers of all faiths most likely watch this show and the Lukes, Sean Lowes, etc., certainly feel to me like they might have gone on this show to proselytize. 

Clayton perfectly exemplified what I find offensive about this when he said he relied on his "faith" while abusing Susie.  He was using that to shame and manipulate her, and that seems to be the direction too many comments of this type take.  

I love the religious stuff, because it shows the background and culture of who they are, good or bad.

It also shows how often religion is abused by folks like Clayton.  "My faith tells me everything happens for a reason."  That was indeed scary and dark stuff by Clayton, and Susie should be thanking the heavens that she escaped that guy ... really the opposite of protecting someone's heart that you say you love.  I mean, where do they get these morally empty people for this show.

[Palomar]

Most of the Bachelors have always slept with the final 3 (it has always been cringe-worthy). The difference is, most never used the L word until the proposal, until recently. I've never understood how the final woman could be down with it but no one has complained much publicly at least. Doesn't make it right but this show is only on for ratings and drama. I wonder if Susie has ever watched the show before? She definitely should have told Clayton sometime before the Overnights how she felt. 

[DEL901]

8 minutes ago, Palomar said:

Most of the Bachelors have always slept with the final 3 (it has always been cringe-worthy). The difference is, most never used the L word until the proposal, until recently. I've never understood how the final woman could be down with it but no one has complained much publicly at least. Doesn't make it right but this show is only on for ratings and drama. I wonder if Susie has ever watched the show before? She definitely should have told Clayton sometime before the Overnights how she felt. 

Even Ben Higgins declarations of love seemed spontaneous…he was with JoJo at a waterfall???     Clayton’s were calculated to seal the deal at the Fantasy Suites.  

[nlkm9]

49 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

Not from me. I always thought it was awesome for Nick to point that out and couldn't understand why everyone thought he was just the biggest jerk for saying it.  I remain firmly Team Viall.  Andi was always just too full of herself. 

I felt in that moment nick was really in love and was blindsided . He honestly did not understand why Andi refused any contact with him ( prob because of Josh) and she screwed herself there. She did exactly what we all hate, she selfishly has sex with nick knowing that she was picking Josh. You know that had to be a fun conversation that nite lol

[deSchenke]

I liked this show better when they had the women (or men) separated during the Fantasy Suites. They showed a daytime activity and a reveal of the FS date card and a "tour" of the FS. Then they exited the door and what happened next was left to your imagination. 

It also didn't appear to reveal what order the women (or men) were summoned to the FS date. Nor did the remaining participants seem to have any knowledge of what happened or when.

Those were the days....

It also was during Ben H's season that he stated he loved someone - more than one, before the proposal. I remember JoJo at the falls saying, "What? Are you allowed to say that?" - not knowing he said that to whats-her-face (who he proposed to and they ended up breaking up - Lauren?)

Ever since then, it seems that the lead proclaims their love to more than one person. I am quite sure that it is due to producer prodding. "Oh, you have to tell her you love her, or you'll lose her!" - when they don't know themselves who they have the most connection with.

I applaud Suzie for leaving. Clayton's turning the situation around to the fault being on her for his sleeping with multiple women when he "loved her most" was a stupid a desperate argument. You don't need that for a lifelong partner.

I think Clayton really didn't know how he was being led on by the women (Cassidy, Shanae, Sarah) or production. But it was on him - HIM! - to figure out that stating an "ILY" or sleeping with more than one would come back to bite him.

I can't imagine how they will fill another 4 hours of this season with 2 episodes next week.

[DEL901]

Can I mention Clayton.’s justification from a magazine article I linked in the media thread…

Spoiler

He claimed he flashed back to the other times woman had used him on the show and reacted without thinking  

 

[Stats Queen]

37 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Can I mention Clayton.’s justification from a magazine article I linked in the media thread…

  Hide contents

He claimed he flashed back to the other times woman had used him on the show and reacted without thinking  

 

I read that too and it is a crock of bs.

He did not realize women had used him until he watched in on TV. He did not even consider it even when multiple contestants warned him he was being used and he blew them off.

He is trying to rewrite history to make himself look better.

 

[Kiss my mutt]

As if I needed another reason to like him less, he obliges and gives it to me. 

[Amy Beth]

3 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Can I mention Clayton.’s justification from a magazine article I linked in the media thread…

  Reveal spoiler

He claimed he flashed back to the other times woman had used him on the show and reacted without thinking  

 

Blah, blah, blah. How does someone who appears to be a functional adult make it to age 28 without understanding that telling 3 women over 3 days that you love them, having  sex with 2, expecting to have sex with the 3rd and planning to propose to one of them within a few days of all that, might provoke a negative response from the intended fiancée? 
 

Broken record, but he comes off like a child with his “she should have told me that was a bad thing” excuse.

[DEL901]

5 hours ago, Amy Beth said:

Blah, blah, blah. How does someone who appears to be a functional adult make it to age 28 without understanding that telling 3 women over 3 days that you love them, having  sex with 2, expecting to have sex with the 3rd and planning to propose to one of them within a few days of all that, might provoke a negative response from the intended fiancée? 
 

Broken record, but he comes off like a child with his “she should have told me that was a bad thing” excuse.

And don’t forget he already had a favourite and two of the three weren’t even really in the running for the big prize… wearing a gaudy ring for a few months while you do the media rounds. 

[nlkm9]

14 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

I’ve been thinking about your point (what does that say about my life 🥺) and i still think it is pretty different.  I don’t think that people would have responded the same way if Luke P hadn’t been telling Hannah how ro behave throughout the entire season.  Basically he was acting like a very old school husband throughout the whole season telling her what she should and shouldn’t do.

Susie can be criticized for ignoring what often happens on this show.  But basically Clayton was telling her that he knew she was number 1 but hey he felt like sleeping with the other two anyway.  It was just a bachelor party.  And she was saying if you knew i was number 1 why would you want to.

Also, as people commented above what does this say about his treatment of Rachel and Gabby who each slept with someone who was “falling in love with them” a few days before he was going to dump them (apparently that didn’t dawn on him till after he had “gotten intimate” with someone, err two someones.

i remember when everyone hated Nick Viall because he asked Andi what she was thinking doing “fiance stuff” with him when she knew she was picking the other guy.  He got blasted because no one had ever asked that and it looked like a double standard because she was a woman.  But it’s a reasonable question.

I had no issue with what nick vial did, you could see the hurt and confusion. He fell hard for andi, and they has sex in the fantasy suite and apparently he tried to contact her and she conpletely cut hin off, i beleive because she was afriad josh would be furious.

if she had just spoken to him and acknowledged him, that guy needed answers and she was doong what we all hate when bachelors do- sleepong with someone and them acting like its no big deal. Jessa palmer was no angel either .

the question is whether these women would have slept with him had he not told them he loved them. The other question is should susie have told clayton the sex would be the last straw? ( personally the idea of my guy having deep foreplay and everytjing but with a woman is pretty much the same) but i think clayton would have still gone for it . In peters season i recall someone telling him that and he did it anyway lol. I mean these women are all rooming together seeing each one leave to have a very special date. Sorry thats cruel to everyone.

[TheFinalRose]

Luke from Hannah's season was all kinds of problematic. But he and Hannah did have the conversation during hometowns about the fantasy suites exclusivity angle, and how Luke felt about it. So when he brought up the topic at the dinner table, he thought they were on the same page. 

Clay-en saying I thought Susie was Sarah-ing me is probably the worst excuse. How come he was nicer to Sarah than he was to Susie then? I think his rage erupted when he lost his decision-making power and Susie was suddenly the one deciding whether or not the relationship continued. Jessie must have forgotten to instill in Clay-en the Bachelor canon that anyone who doesn't want to accept a rose or doesn't want to forgo their individual room to stay as a couple in the fantasy suite, is free to do so. 

 

 

[Artsda]

Shenae was perfect for him, good for Susie. The other 2 should also go.  The speed at which he turned on and blamed her was crazy. 

[alexa]

9 hours ago, Stats Queen said:

I read that too and it is a crock of bs.

He did not realize women had used him until he watched in on TV. He did not even consider it even when multiple contestants warned him he was being used and he blew them off.

He is trying to rewrite history to make himself look better.

 

So true!  He conveniently used the excuse he didn't know what was happening until he saw it back on TV when it works for him.  Now he is conveniently omniscient in the moment when it comes to Susie even though she really did nothing wrong other than try to talk to him about her feelings.  

[phlebas]

12 hours ago, econ07 said:

...Susie should be thanking the heavens that she escaped that guy ... really the opposite of protecting someone's heart that you say you love.  I mean, where do they get these morally empty people for this show.

I expect the rest of this season to be a dumpster fire, but the thing I'm looking forward to the most is hearing from Susie after she's had a couple of months away from it, long enough to let her real opinions come through.

I hope she handles it better than Katie did, but Susie with her claws out a little might be nice.  And it would help if she does become the next lead.

Hearing Gabby and Rachel will be interesting too (well... potentially), but Susie will be the star.

[Jax7917]

Am I the only one who hopes Suzie doesn't get the bachelorette gig? Her entire exit seemed scripted on her part. She wasn't even willing to give him a couple of hours to talk it out with her. She just kept saying, "no matter what you say, I can't get past it." People were throwing daggers at Greg for looking for an out but are praising Susie. Even when he said he was in love with her (before he told her he was in love with the others), she didn't look happy at all.

[phlebas]

4 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

Am I the only one who hopes Suzie doesn't get the bachelorette gig? Her entire exit seemed scripted on her part. She wasn't even willing to give him a couple of hours to talk it out with her. She just kept saying, "no matter what you say, I can't get past it." People were throwing daggers at Greg for looking for an out but are praising Susie. Even when he said he was in love with her (before he told her he was in love with the others), she didn't look happy at all.

you're not alone. I think I'm more kindly disposed towards Susie, but I feel like her season would look similar to many we've seen before.

My choice would be Gabby.  She's a mess, but it would at least be memorable. And she's not evil, and her grandfather is funny.

[alexa]

30 minutes ago, Jax7917 said:

Am I the only one who hopes Suzie doesn't get the bachelorette gig? Her entire exit seemed scripted on her part. She wasn't even willing to give him a couple of hours to talk it out with her. She just kept saying, "no matter what you say, I can't get past it." People were throwing daggers at Greg for looking for an out but are praising Susie. Even when he said he was in love with her (before he told her he was in love with the others), she didn't look happy at all.

I don't really care who gets the gig, but when it comes to the Susie conversation it went downhill so fast with him, I can totally see why she didn't want to give it a chance.  I think she had a weird vibe about it, could sense he wasn't completely sincere about the I love you, and felt something was off.  And then he went off on a crazy person tangent, and what on earth is there to talk about?  How can you give it a chance when the person makes you feel that uncomfortable?  It clearly wasn't love he was feeling.  

My impression was that she was completely surprised by the I love you, had some things she wanted to talk to him about, that were legitimate and important.  And given we saw how easily he threw around the I love you's--it was a good call on her part, and she didn't even know about the others yet when she was hesitating.  I could see her brain ticking, thinking, what is going on, why is he so mad?  For people that say she should have given him a chance to talk it out--she tried to, but he went off the handle about it all.  That isn't talking, and you can't talk to a person that treats you like that, quite honestly.

[TheFinalRose]

The deed was already done with someone, er, both of them. Susie didn't want a fiance that slept with two different women in the past 48 hours and she certainly didn't want any intimate moments with him knowing she'd be the third in three days. And it seemed to be that Clay-en didn't want to talk, he wanted to talk her into it being okay and she wasn't interested in giving him a couple of hours to rationalize it. 

I'm okay with Susie getting the Bachelorette gig.  They gave the gig to Katie, setting a very low bar. Also, I think Susie is the kind of lead that will get the guys totally falling all over themselves for her. 

[JenE4]

1 hour ago, Jax7917 said:

Am I the only one who hopes Suzie doesn't get the bachelorette gig? Her entire exit seemed scripted on her part. She wasn't even willing to give him a couple of hours to talk it out with her. She just kept saying, "no matter what you say, I can't get past it." People were throwing daggers at Greg for looking for an out but are praising Susie. Even when he said he was in love with her (before he told her he was in love with the others), she didn't look happy at all.

I’ve always taken the “side” of the contestant, not the lead, in these similar situations. I’ve been firmly Teams Susie, Greg, and Luke. Each of them have free will and have every right to question whether this person has the integrity/values that they’re looking for in a spouse. The fact that each one of their leads (Clayton, Katie, and Hannah) acted out in such extremes that how dare you have the audacity to question me on my show and “ruin” my experience! That reaction alone is what makes me double-down on supporting the contestant—whether or not they “could have” said something sooner or different leading up to the situation. Once the lead just reinforces that power dynamic that my feelings matter more than yours because this is my show? Fuck you! And, no, I don’t think Susie was faking any of it just to get the lead. We saw her emotionally spiraling the entire show! For at least two days she sat there thinking about Clayton potentially fucking the other two girls and expressing feelings to them. Every conversation she had with the other 2, she was expressing her fears and looked sick to her stomach. We had SEVERAL talking heads of her panicking about the whole thing, and lots of B roll footage of her dramatically wandering around the hotel and breaking down in stairwells and corridors. She got herself worked up in such a state—and then her exact fears came true! Frankly, I think she just had a strong intuition about who Clayton really was—and that’s why she was worried he was treating the others the same as her…which he did exactly, despite trying to say she’s the “most” special. Greg and Luke were in the exact same scenarios where we saw them worrying and questioning the integrity of the person they loved once the facade started slipping a bit—and they were also right! Out of all of them, I’d say Luke was a bit of a jerk. But he never faked that; he was a religious zealot and had specific expectations for Hannah from the start. At least he was upfront about it. For Susie, I think the one slip was that the overnights just came up too fast. She was on a high from meeting the families and then maybe didn’t even realize she wouldn’t have a chance to talk to Clayton before he had his overnights with the other two. But her feelings are valid—and obviously very real. Not only that, but her intuition was dead-on. This was the best thing that ever happened to her before she rushed into an engagement with this guy. Susie, Greg, and Luke are all better off to find someone who values their feelings and shares their values.

[ljenkins782]

4 hours ago, Jax7917 said:

Am I the only one who hopes Suzie doesn't get the bachelorette gig? Her entire exit seemed scripted on her part. She wasn't even willing to give him a couple of hours to talk it out with her. She just kept saying, "no matter what you say, I can't get past it." People were throwing daggers at Greg for looking for an out but are praising Susie. Even when he said he was in love with her (before he told her he was in love with the others), she didn't look happy at all.

I didn't see that at all. If anything, I thought she gave him too much time to try to back pedal, HE was the one who said he was done. 

Quote

And, no, I don’t think Susie was faking any of it just to get the lead. We saw her emotionally spiraling the entire show! For at least two days she sat there thinking about Clayton potentially fucking the other two girls and expressing feelings to them. Every conversation she had with the other 2, she was expressing her fears and looked sick to her stomach. We had SEVERAL talking heads of her panicking about the whole thing, and lots of B roll footage of her dramatically wandering around the hotel and breaking down in stairwells and corridors. She got herself worked up in such a state—and then her exact fears came true! Frankly, I think she just had a strong intuition about who Clayton really was—and that’s why she was worried he was treating the others the same as her…which he did exactly, despite trying to say she’s the “most” special.

I'm still floored that he tried to say he obviously liked her the most, I think his eloquent phrasing was "in love with you most" which isn't quite the superlative he thinks it is. It wasn't obvious to the viewer since every single date seemed to go the exact same way. His demeanor was basically the same with everyone, which we got to see and she didn't, but she (and the others) must see it now.

And "you should have told me you'd be upset if I slept with 2 other people the day before proposing" is the lamest thing I've ever heard. Yes, the FS is a baked-in premise of the show but it's not required to participate in ALL activities. And if he had a sincere and genuine interest in being with one of them after the show, he should have thought ahead. He's trying to hide behind the "I'm allowed" excuse and not acknowledging that he didn't HAVE to. If she said to him at the proposal, hang on, I'm just going to sleep with these 2 other people just to be sure...", that wouldn't be welcome news. 

I hope the other 2 dump his ass next week and he leaves by himself. I don't really see any path to this ending well for either of them.

What a train wreck of a season, it explains why the intro to his season was the weird "mean tweets" segment at Michelle's ATFR. I felt bad for him then, but he deserves all the shit he's getting. 

[LindaT]

The difference between the Luke and the Susie situation...  Luke was basically saying to Hannah that he wouldn't be able to be with her because he would think of her as a slut and that is not how he wants his future wife to behave.  Also, I think he may have been bluffing to try to control her and didn't expect the reaction from Hannah that he got. Also, saying I love you wasn't an issue.  Susie, on the other hand, was saying that if you are able to tell the other women you love them and sleep with them, then even if you love me the most, you don't love me enough.   

[TomGirl]

4 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

I'm okay with Susie getting the Bachelorette gig.  They gave the gig to Katie, setting a very low bar. Also, I think Susie is the kind of lead that will get the guys totally falling all over themselves for her. 

I’d be ok with any of the F3 as the next bachelorette, but my top choice would be Serene.

[Blintzie]

I'm completely on Team Susie and would welcome her as the Bachelorette. She's gorgeous, seems sweet and kind, and frankly, I welcome a Bachelorette who doesn't feel the need to constantly wave the flag for "sex positivity." I get the impression that Susie is not a prude but is someone who considers sex something that is special and to be shared with someone you care for deeply. I find that refreshing. And I think she's someone the guys would be genuinely interested in (like it or not, she fits the bill in many ways for many men typically cast on this show). 

That being said, if she is selected, I do pray someone pulls Susie aside before her season and helps her break her "like" habit when speaking. Dear God, please!

[phlebas]

23 minutes ago, Blintzie said:

That being said, if she is selected, I do pray someone pulls Susie aside before her season and helps her break her "like" habit when speaking. Dear God, please!

That is the OTHER reason Susie reminds me of Madi Prewett!

Teddi was even worse. Bullet dodged.

[Palomar]

Nothing against Susie but she doesn't really have the personality or sense of humor to be the Bachelorette.  She would take it all too seriously and it would be boring.  Very pretty girl though. I'm sure she will do well and find the right guy and recover from this very soon!

 

[mirandroid]

He is SO!  BROKEN!

And so are my eye muscles from rolling them so hard. I hope if it's Susie's door he's knocking on she pretends not to be home or has someone else field the moron, "Susie? Well, she died 40 years ago!"

He really did turn out to be a mega douche.

[tinkerbell]

I am kind of liking the idea of the "fantasy suite' becoming the "Fantasy YURT" 

Edited March 10, 2022 by tinkerbell

[DA6988]

I just watched this today and I feel so conflicted. I think Clayton was quite rude to Susie at the end but I don’t know that I believe he was super abusive. I think what is throwing me is that I do believe Susie should have shared in advance what was / wasn’t a deal breaker. It seemed like he had a conversation with her about exploring other relationships and thought they were on the same page and they clearly weren’t - he should have asked more questions, been smarter about his actions and how they would come across AND Susie should have clearly communicated how she get about sex.  I don’t like how Clayton spoke to her but I think from his perspective he was hearing something was a deal breaker, that she couldn’t get past it, and then a bit of back pedaling…and that struck me as someone who wanted to turn it into he wants me to go home and he’s done with versus the initial situation which was that SHE couldn’t get past it and couldn’t be with him. I think because it made a better edit for her. 

At the same time, Clayton is both a people pleaser and not too smart clearly. He let the producers get in his head and he seems to have used the love card to have sex. He flipped a switch with Susie for sure but I can sort of understand how he was confused by her saying she couldn’t move past it then wanting to continue to talk about it. I think he spoke really defensively and should have just said “I didn’t realize you felt that way but since you do, I understand why we can’t continue” and just end it there. I wonder if in that moment he was wondering if it was all an act and that made him react worse. At a certain point I was kind of with him in that there’s nothing else to talk about if you say you can’t get past it (but think that was a short sighted reaction). 

In any case, I think at the end of the day if you’re on the show I think you have to be prepared to lay all your cards on the table and the reality of dating multiple people. In theory, you wouldn’t be dating and potentially having sex with multiple people before proposing. In practice that is the Bachelor though and so you have to be as upfront as possible about your own expectations (on both sides, I thought the same thing when Katie and Greg were going through their whole thing - I think kayie should have told them up front she wasn’t going to say I love you to anyone). 

I think Susie would make a fine bachelorette if she gets it (despite my thought that’s what she was angling for which is fine). As I would have done with Greg, I’ll be side eying it and paying attention to whether she’s hypocritical during the process given how they couldn’t handle being a contestant but it is what it is. I also hope to not see Clayton ever again - again I don’t think he’s a villain I just think he’s not too bright and doesn’t have enough sense of self to engage in this process without getting distracted, letting the producers mess with him etc. 

 

[geej]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:26 PM, FlyingEgret said:

That would be TWO pooches...

i can barely handle my laughter. you funny.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

Did anyone catch how Clayton begged Suzie to talk it over and that they still had "seven hours" to talk things out? I'd rather wait in the DMV line without a number or try to wedge my ass into my high school low rise jeans.  I don't want to talk to anyone for seven hours! 

[Katie111]

Why does Gabby look so upset next week?  She said to Susie that she wanted Clayton to “get to know them inside and out”.  Sounds like she didn’t care at all if Clayton slept with all of them, in fact she sounded like she wanted him to so he would be certain about his final decision.

[DEL901]

26 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

Why does Gabby look so upset next week?  She said to Susie that she wanted Clayton to “get to know them inside and out”.  Sounds like she didn’t care at all if Clayton slept with all of them, in fact she sounded like she wanted him to so he would be certain about his final decision.

I think his declaration of love made a difference to her.  Rachel too, I’ll bet.   It is one thing to have sex when you are unsure of which to pick, or even recreationally, but how can you make a declaration like that and have sex with someone else AND declare your love for them too.   (Wonder how they are feeling now that they know that even when he said those words to them he already know Susie was his number 1?   And the revelation that Susie went last because producers were worried that if she went first then Clayton wouldn’t “explore” with the other two? )

Edited March 11, 2022 by DEL901

[EllenB]

1 hour ago, DA6988 said:

I just watched this today and I feel so conflicted. I think Clayton was quite rude to Susie at the end but I don’t know that I believe he was super abusive. I think what is throwing me is that I do believe Susie should have shared in advance what was / wasn’t a deal breaker. It seemed like he had a conversation with her about exploring other relationships and thought they were on the same page and they clearly weren’t - he should have asked more questions, been smarter about his actions and how they would come across AND Susie should have clearly communicated how she get about sex.  I don’t like how Clayton spoke to her but I think from his perspective he was hearing something was a deal breaker, that she couldn’t get past it, and then a bit of back pedaling…and that struck me as someone who wanted to turn it into he wants me to go home and he’s done with versus the initial situation which was that SHE couldn’t get past it and couldn’t be with him. I think because it made a better edit for her. 

At the same time, Clayton is both a people pleaser and not too smart clearly. He let the producers get in his head and he seems to have used the love card to have sex. He flipped a switch with Susie for sure but I can sort of understand how he was confused by her saying she couldn’t move past it then wanting to continue to talk about it. I think he spoke really defensively and should have just said “I didn’t realize you felt that way but since you do, I understand why we can’t continue” and just end it there. I wonder if in that moment he was wondering if it was all an act and that made him react worse. At a certain point I was kind of with him in that there’s nothing else to talk about if you say you can’t get past it (but think that was a short sighted reaction). 

In any case, I think at the end of the day if you’re on the show I think you have to be prepared to lay all your cards on the table and the reality of dating multiple people. In theory, you wouldn’t be dating and potentially having sex with multiple people before proposing. In practice that is the Bachelor though and so you have to be as upfront as possible about your own expectations (on both sides, I thought the same thing when Katie and Greg were going through their whole thing - I think kayie should have told them up front she wasn’t going to say I love you to anyone). 

I think Susie would make a fine bachelorette if she gets it (despite my thought that’s what she was angling for which is fine). As I would have done with Greg, I’ll be side eying it and paying attention to whether she’s hypocritical during the process given how they couldn’t handle being a contestant but it is what it is. I also hope to not see Clayton ever again - again I don’t think he’s a villain I just think he’s not too bright and doesn’t have enough sense of self to engage in this process without getting distracted, letting the producers mess with him etc. 

 

Most Bachelors are at least somewhat skeevy when it comes to the fantasy suites (except Sean, who I'm starting to appreciate more and more each season). It's the way Clay!-un turned on her with so much anger when he found out she didn't want to be #3 in the sack. Why should she believe his "I love you the best" when she has no idea if he said the same thing to the others - especially when he said it was just one, then admitted he'd had sex with AND said the big ol' L word to both of them. I'd have slugged him when he got snippy about it.

 

[nlkm9]

22 hours ago, deSchenke said:

I liked this show better when they had the women (or men) separated during the Fantasy Suites. They showed a daytime activity and a reveal of the FS date card and a "tour" of the FS. Then they exited the door and what happened next was left to your imagination. 

It also didn't appear to reveal what order the women (or men) were summoned to the FS date. Nor did the remaining participants seem to have any knowledge of what happened or when.

Those were the days....

It also was during Ben H's season that he stated he loved someone - more than one, before the proposal. I remember JoJo at the falls saying, "What? Are you allowed to say that?" - not knowing he said that to whats-her-face (who he proposed to and they ended up breaking up - Lauren?)

Ever since then, it seems that the lead proclaims their love to more than one person. I am quite sure that it is due to producer prodding. "Oh, you have to tell her you love her, or you'll lose her!" - when they don't know themselves who they have the most connection with.

I applaud Suzie for leaving. Clayton's turning the situation around to the fault being on her for his sleeping with multiple women when he "loved her most" was a stupid a desperate argument. You don't need that for a lifelong partner.

I think Clayton really didn't know how he was being led on by the women (Cassidy, Shanae, Sarah) or production. But it was on him - HIM! - to figure out that stating an "ILY" or sleeping with more than one would come back to bite him.

I can't imagine how they will fill another 4 hours of this season with 2 episodes next week.

actually ANDY (I freakin love you bevin) was the first to tell 2 women he loved them, not sure why that is always overlooked. now its a has to be done which is sick.

10 minutes ago, EllenB said:

Most Bachelors are at least somewhat skeevy when it comes to the fantasy suites (except Sean, who I'm starting to appreciate more and more each season). It's the way Clay!-un turned on her with so much anger when he found out she didn't want to be #3 in the sack. Why should she believe his "I love you the best" when she has no idea if he said the same thing to the others - especially when he said it was just one, then admitted he'd had sex with AND said the big ol' L word to both of them. I'd have slugged him when he got snippy about it.

 

I love you the best is such an immature statement!!!

3 hours ago, phlebas said:

That is the OTHER reason Susie reminds me of Madi Prewett!

Teddi was even worse. Bullet dodged.

the likes have to be coached out of her. please like please

[deSchenke]

10 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

actually ANDY (I freakin love you bevin) was the first to tell 2 women he loved them, not sure why that is always overlooked. now its a has to be done which is sick.

 

I only started watching this show from Brad 1.0. So didn't know that about Andy. I skipped Jake's season, only watched the blowup special.

[DA6988]

Totally agree he was immature and the whole I loved you the most was awful! I guess I’ve always seen the bachelors and bachelorettes as skeevy re: fantasy suites in that the likelihood is people are sleeping with more than one person (and in some seasons the sex has happened even before fantasy suites) and don’t think Clayton was any worse than others (before he got all snippy with Susie). His reaction wasn’t great but I can’t buy that anyone would go on this show with this as a deal breaker given the nature of the show. If it is then you have to communicate it because the show is designed to essentially be non Monogamous until the engagement which is weird as hell.
 

I suspect the I love you’s to everyone are more of a dealbreaker for everyone else than the sex itself. But again that’s something that’s happened a lot recently - so the inability to maneuver all this in a better way to me falls on Clayton’s own awfulness then all the specific actions if that makes sense. 

[ljenkins782]

1 hour ago, Katie111 said:

Why does Gabby look so upset next week?  She said to Susie that she wanted Clayton to “get to know them inside and out”.  Sounds like she didn’t care at all if Clayton slept with all of them, in fact she sounded like she wanted him to so he would be certain about his final decision.

I think it was a bit of Cool Girl syndrome, she might have believed that she had the best connection with him and that he wasn't actually going to do anything with the others, so she could look confident and self assured by not putting any restrictions on him.

Same goes for Rachel, whose every move seems calculated for storytelling purposes. She's still mad about getting her rose last at the ceremony (and had to find a way to work it into conversation) because it doesn't fit the narrative she's telling. Every single thing she does looks like something she saw in a movie, down to the way she holds his face when she's kissing him or the little poses she strikes when they're making out. 

The one thing Rachel can't seem to script is a decent outfit, it's starting to become comical. I wait for her scenes just to see what kind of sartorial crimes will be committed. In this past episode, it was the bare midriff in freezing cold Iceland and then the inexplicable Dynasty shoulder pads and puffed sleeves on her dress. Add her atrocious roots and the missing fingernail that's coming up next week and the girl is just a mess.

[Sweet-tea]

On 3/8/2022 at 8:55 PM, Ladybugnine said:

This a clear example of gaslighting right here.

Oh my gosh I was yelling at the TV! I cannot believe what a jerk he was to her and how he was manipulating and shaming her! It ticked me off so much I almost turned if off! I don't even care who "wins" because she will really be a loser. This guy is a narcissistic, abusive, manipulative snowflake a--hole~! And I don't usually swear! This is how angry I am! 

This is Clayton: "I boinked the other two women but I love you the most, so why are you angry? Why aren't you willing to fight for us?" Are you freaking kidding me?????

And "I guess this means we aren't having sex tonight?" 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Sweet-tea

[DEL901]

5 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

Oh my gosh I was yelling at the TV! I cannot believe what a jerk he was to her and how he was manipulating and shaming her! It ticked me off so much I almost turned if off! I don't even care who "wins" because she will really be a loser. This guy is a narcissistic, abusive, manipulative snowflake a--hole~! And I don't usually swear! This is how angry I am! 

This is Clayton: "I boinked the other two women but I loved you the most, so why are you angry?" Are you freaking kidding me?????

Not just “boinking two other women”, but two other women that he loves.   The man is an idiot.   Other Bachelors have told more than women they loves them, but not in such a calculated manner to seal the deal to get them into bed.  

[Sweet-tea]

11 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Not just “boinking two other women”, but two other women that he loves.   The man is an idiot.   Other Bachelors have told more than women they loves them, but not in such a calculated manner to seal the deal to get them into bed.  

Agree! Is Clayton stupid, a pig or both? Did his mother pay too much attention to him a a child or what? Because something is wrong with this guy (not to blame it on his mother. I'm just being snarky). 

I think his "I'm in love with three women" is code for "I want to have sex with all three of them, without any flack." 

Instead of crying I wish Susie had said, "You know what Clayton? You and your underbite and Charlie Brown hair can hit the road!" 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Sweet-tea

[TheMediumBopper]

As I see it, Clayton would have eliminated Susie if she'd told him upfront that she didn't want him to sleep with the other women. She didn't want to take that risk, so she waited it out and foolishly hoped he'd do the right thing. Now he's pissy because she's leaving on her own terms rather than on his. He sucks.