S14.E08: Striking a Balance

[Retired at last]

8 hours ago, Racj82 said:

I've never gotten any indication that anyone on this show except for Jamie O and maybe Myrla did this for fame.

Don't forget Taylor, from Taylor and Brandon. She was totally on this show for her followers and posted as much as she could.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Starlight925 said:

Here are two hard-working men who appear to have hearts of gold, yet they are being slammed for their "minimal" careers.  

Also real estate agents can make excellent money if they’re good at it and I think Chris said he’s used to multi-million-dollar deals, which means good money in commissions. Alyssa was just hating - if her “cowboy” were a real estate agent, she’d have praised his hard work and entrepreneurship.

I didn’t watch the episode this week but have read most comments and if I were Mark I’d walk. Why would you want to be with someone who thought that little of you?

[Racj82]

30 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

Don't forget Taylor, from Taylor and Brandon. She was totally on this show for her followers and posted as much as she could.

Ah yes. Taylor. To be fair, I often forget about those types of "celebrities" because I don't think of them as such. Influencers and the like. I also don't think of that stuff as a career even though it has become one. 

You could increase your followers by being on a lot of different tv shows where you don't have to marry someone.

I guess Taylor knew that. She was just hoping to be on A dating show and MAFS is the one that bit. 

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

These have to be the two worst women the show has ever had.

Chinless/double chin Alyssa and always-inserts-herself Lindsay should move in together. I predict they will be single for a looooong time.

I don't disagree with you for the most part, although if I thought hard enough I might be able to think of a woman worse than Lindsey (Molly?  Mia?  Virginal Iris?)  I put Alyssa in a different and arguably worse category than Lindsey.  Alyssa is just selfish and narcissistic through and through.  Lindsey deep down under all her pain has a well meaning heart of gold, but as oversensitive "damaged goods" she wrecks it by reacting out of misplaced anger to get people back for their overblown (in her mind) transgressions against her.  I see a person like Lindsey as somewhat redeemable and somewhat good in situations that don't trigger her.  But Alyssa is bad to the core while thinking she's good and there's no redeeming that.  Lindsey at least has some self awareness, which is a good thing.  Alyssa has zero.  So I don't quite see Lindsey in the same category of "worst" as Alyssa.  But I tend to see these things from the POV of how redeemable and how good a person is deep down, not necessarily how their actions offend others, although that's certainly part of it too.  The way Lindsey offends others definitely puts her on the short list of worst women on the show for me, just not quite that high up.

[Starlight925]

25 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I don't disagree with you for the most part, although if I thought hard enough I might be able to think of a woman worse than Lindsey (Molly?  Mia?  Virginal Iris?)  I put Alyssa in a different and arguably worse category than Lindsey.  Alyssa is just selfish and narcissistic through and through.  Lindsey deep down under all her pain has a well meaning heart of gold, but as oversensitive "damaged goods" she wrecks it by reacting out of misplaced anger to get people back for their overblown (in her mind) transgressions against her.  I see a person like Lindsey as somewhat redeemable and somewhat good in situations that don't trigger her.  But Alyssa is bad to the core while thinking she's good and there's no redeeming that.  Lindsey at least has some self awareness, which is a good thing.  Alyssa has zero.  So I don't quite see Lindsey in the same category of "worst" as Alyssa.  But I tend to see these things from the POV of how redeemable and how good a person is deep down, not necessarily how their actions offend others, although that's certainly part of it too.  The way Lindsey offends others definitely puts her on the short list of worst women on the show for me, just not quite that high up.

Agree!  Lindsay is so damaged.  I just want to hug her and say, "Who hurt you?" (I know, her mom).  Hurt people hurt people, which is what I feel we are witnessing here.  

It's when she went on her bathroom rant, outing Mark's salary, cutting him down behind his back, that made me realize she's more than just a hurt person.  That rant was just plain mean.

And yes, Alyssa is simply inherently a bad person.  Narcissistic to the core, and just not a good person at any time.  Ms. ACE necklace, even on her wedding day.  Ugh.  

Alyssa is #1 for worst women ever on MAFS.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Starlight925

[LuvMyShows]

57 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I see a person like Lindsey as somewhat redeemable and somewhat good in situations that don't trigger her.  But Alyssa is bad to the core while thinking she's good and there's no redeeming that.  Lindsey at least has some self awareness, which is a good thing.  Alyssa has zero.  So I don't quite see Lindsey in the same category of "worst" as Alyssa.  But I tend to see these things from the POV of how redeemable and how good a person is deep down, not necessarily how their actions offend others, although that's certainly part of it too.  The way Lindsey offends others definitely puts her on the short list of worst women on the show for me, just not quite that high up.

This puts me in mind of female Sam (with Neil).  She was terrible to him, and very un-self-aware.  But after he said no at decision day, and she saw herself on the show, she was basically mortified at how she had treated him.  But I do not see that sort of revelation happening with Ace.

[kristen111]

On 2/23/2022 at 8:45 PM, Mindthinkr said:

At least her friend was calling her out on her nonsense and being truthful. 

Jasmina is too tough and scary.  I don’t find her likeable at all.  She always looks mad at something and not a fun person.

[Kira53]

2 hours ago, Starlight925 said:

Agree!  Lindsay is so damaged.  I just want to hug her and say, "Who hurt you?" (I know, her mom).  Hurt people hurt people, which is what I feel we are witnessing here.  

It's when she went on her bathroom rant, outing Mark's salary, cutting him down behind his back, that made me realize she's more than just a hurt person.  That rant was just plain mean.

And yes, Alyssa is simply inherently a bad person.  Narcissistic to the core, and just not a good person at any time.  Ms. ACE necklace, even on her wedding day.  Ugh.  

Alyssa is #1 for worst women ever on MAFS.

I have always thought that Lindsey’s mother was not having anything to do with her because of the way that Lindsey acts.  I’m sure Lindsay  has verbally  “assassinated” her at multiple times and played the victim.  Lindsey would not see her responsibility in the state of their relationship or lack of relationship.  I wouldn’t want to admit I birthed her.  People are always blaming the mother for the “child’s “ behaviors.  It is one thing when they are 10 years old.  What about blaming the father?  Now though Lindsey is an adult and she is responsible for her behavior.  If you were hurt just get help.  

[Starlight925]

17 minutes ago, Kira53 said:

I have always thought that Lindsey’s mother was not having anything to do with her because of the way that Lindsey acts.  I’m sure Lindsay  has verbally  “assassinated” her at multiple times and played the victim.  Lindsey would not see her responsibility in the state of their relationship or lack of relationship.  I wouldn’t want to admit I birthed her.  People are always blaming the mother for the “child’s “ behaviors.  It is one thing when they are 10 years old.  What about blaming the father?  Now though Lindsey is an adult and she is responsible for her behavior.  If you were hurt just get help.  

Well, that's a great point.  Is her mother uninvolved because Lindsay is so awful?  Or is it the other way around?  Where is Lindsay's father in all this?  

There are obviously some major issues that need to be worked out in a therapist's office, not in a hazmat suit throwing her new husband's belongings in trash bags.

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, kristen111 said:

Jasmina is too tough and scary.  I don’t find her likeable at all.  She always looks mad at something and not a fun person.

I swear, when she was holding that knife and chopping those vegetables, I was thinking it was a good thing there were cameras; otherwise, I would have been worried for Michael.  LOL 

[Lindz]

I wish Chris would've asked what Alyssa meant by what she said. How was it real? The marriage wasn't. How did she try really hard? To do what? Get matched? No one even cared enough to ask & she probably would've run off if Chris had cuz he's "trying to make her look bad." Earth to Alyssa: he doesn't have to try! You do a great job of it all on your own! Hopefully, that's the last we see of them! She better not weasel her way into a girl's night or hang out in any of their apartments! She should be banned! 😂 Somebody should ask her when she wanted a divorce.

[buttersister]

Quote

Where is Lindsay's father in all this?  

He’s the guy who recommended, uh, begged her to watch her mouth because she says things that you can’t come back from. 

Nice and helpful that Cal told J & M to leave behind/not dwell on the past. Maybe visit Lindsey with the same advice. Or get her to AA—not saying she’s an alcoholic, but she can’t control herself when she drinks, so needs to stop.

I want to hear from Alyssa’s pal after she sees the righteous editing of their chat. Show, submit that clip to the Emmy’s. Best reality show moment I can remember.

[Meowwww]

On 2/25/2022 at 1:11 PM, ByTor said:

Self-employed is not the same as unemployed, and if that's how he meant it then he's not that great at explaining himself. Plus, if he was self-employed, why the mentions of "I can always get a job?" Sounds like a jobless person to me. And like someone who doesn't want to look for a job.

Just rewatched.  He said he’s “ not trying to be employed right now “ because he’s trying to better himself and better their relationship. 

[Polliwollidoodle]

Finally I am remembering to ask (seriously, not being snarky)--- what is 

Sales Engineer?

 

[kristen111]

18 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I don't disagree with you for the most part, although if I thought hard enough I might be able to think of a woman worse than Lindsey (Molly?  Mia?  Virginal Iris?)  I put Alyssa in a different and arguably worse category than Lindsey.  Alyssa is just selfish and narcissistic through and through.  Lindsey deep down under all her pain has a well meaning heart of gold, but as oversensitive "damaged goods" she wrecks it by reacting out of misplaced anger to get people back for their overblown (in her mind) transgressions against her.  I see a person like Lindsey as somewhat redeemable and somewhat good in situations that don't trigger her.  But Alyssa is bad to the core while thinking she's good and there's no redeeming that.  Lindsey at least has some self awareness, which is a good thing.  Alyssa has zero.  So I don't quite see Lindsey in the same category of "worst" as Alyssa.  But I tend to see these things from the POV of how redeemable and how good a person is deep down, not necessarily how their actions offend others, although that's certainly part of it too.  The way Lindsey offends others definitely puts her on the short list of worst women on the show for me, just not quite that high up.

I feel they all are equally bad, but just in a different way.  That one with Michael, Jasmina? .. she’s not trouble, but she has a horrible demeanor.  Stone faced most of the time.  Good person, but I wouldn’t want her for a friend.

[Yeah No]

15 hours ago, Kira53 said:

I have always thought that Lindsey’s mother was not having anything to do with her because of the way that Lindsey acts.  I’m sure Lindsay  has verbally  “assassinated” her at multiple times and played the victim.  Lindsey would not see her responsibility in the state of their relationship or lack of relationship.  I wouldn’t want to admit I birthed her.  People are always blaming the mother for the “child’s “ behaviors.  It is one thing when they are 10 years old.  What about blaming the father?  Now though Lindsey is an adult and she is responsible for her behavior.  If you were hurt just get help.  

I've always thought Lindsey's mother is likely almost as bad if not the same as Lindsey.  Children often turn out that bad because the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  I think Lindsey is reacting like someone that was verbally abused in childhood and is lashing out from that hurt.  We don't know how much her father had to do with it but her mother didn't go to the wedding which says something about her.  Her mother may be getting a taste of her own medicine if Lindsey abuses her back.  I don't give any parent a pass, no matter what Lindsey said to her, her mother shouldn't have dissed her the way she did about the wedding.  Didn't we hear that her mother actually went to Boston but then didn't go to the wedding?  If she were so much nicer than Lindsey she would never have done something that hurtful.

[kristen111]

21 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Also real estate agents can make excellent money if they’re good at it and I think Chris said he’s used to multi-million-dollar deals, which means good money in commissions. Alyssa was just hating - if her “cowboy” were a real estate agent, she’d have praised his hard work and entrepreneurship.

I didn’t watch the episode this week but have read most comments and if I were Mark I’d walk. Why would you want to be with someone who thought that little of you?

Alyssa is on the same track.  Talking the same babyish vocabulary and only wanting a Cowboy.  Not all there in the head.  I love when she’s in the mirror.  Admiring herself.  No depth to her.  Her parents know she’s not there in the head, and hoped to pawn her off to Chris.

[kristen111]

11 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I've always thought Lindsey's mother is likely almost as bad if not the same as Lindsey.  Children often turn out that bad because the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  I think Lindsey is reacting like someone that was verbally abused in childhood and is lashing out from that hurt.  We don't know how much her father had to do with it but her mother didn't go to the wedding which says something about her.  Her mother may be getting a taste of her own medicine if Lindsey abuses her back.  I don't give any parent a pass, no matter what Lindsey said to her, her mother shouldn't have dissed her the way she did about the wedding.  Didn't we hear that her mother actually went to Boston but then didn't go to the wedding?  If she were so much nicer than Lindsey she would never have done something that hurtful.

Lindsey always goes for the jugular.  That’s the worst thing a person can do.  To me, a person like that is dead to me.  Married only a short time and already embarrassed him about very personal things that can’t be taken back.  She’s bad news.  I don’t care how good she is.  You don’t talk to people like she does.

[kristen111]

18 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

This puts me in mind of female Sam (with Neil).  She was terrible to him, and very un-self-aware.  But after he said no at decision day, and she saw herself on the show, she was basically mortified at how she had treated him.  But I do not see that sort of revelation happening with Ace.

Have we ever seen Alyssa speak one reasonable sentence?  It was either whining or saying what she wanted or didn’t want.  All I heard was “im not comfortable” or “im a good person”.  That’s it.

[Racj82]

17 hours ago, Lindz said:

I wish Chris would've asked what Alyssa meant by what she said. How was it real? The marriage wasn't. How did she try really hard? To do what? Get matched? No one even cared enough to ask & she probably would've run off if Chris had cuz he's "trying to make her look bad." Earth to Alyssa: he doesn't have to try! You do a great job of it all on your own! Hopefully, that's the last we see of them! She better not weasel her way into a girl's night or hang out in any of their apartments! She should be banned! 😂 Somebody should ask her when she wanted a divorce.

She has no real answer to that question so what would be point?

Also, technically she has said it. Her staying on the show was her "trying". I'm here. I'm still here is all she ever gave as an example of her trying.

[Rightside]

8 hours ago, Polliwollidoodle said:

Finally I am remembering to ask (seriously, not being snarky)--- what is 

Sales Engineer?

 

It is a very good job.

Basically a sales engineer supports sales people to explain the technical aspects of products to customers, giving demos and providing answers for proposals. They know how the products work!

Edited February 27, 2022 by Rightside

[Boo Boo]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:03 PM, TeapotWakeen said:

We know he has been a caregiver for his mother and his grandmother. That can really cut into one's ability to work regular, steady hours at a strictly 9-5 job (she says, from experience). It could be that the job he has now allows him the flexibility to take care of his grandmother's needs (I think his mother lives in an institution?) for health care, personal care, home-based needs, etc. Lindsay doesn't listen well enough to hear what MTS may or may not have done to help take care of loved ones.

If he's in management, their hours, he's more than likely overworked and doesn't have flexibility.  Of course, he was able to have enough flexibility to be on the shows, but managers typically have the least amount of flexibility and the salary they get for it is shit.

[LuvMyShows]

On 2/24/2022 at 4:34 PM, Crashcourse said:

I agree.  That chicken looked delicious but I'm not buying that either Katina or O prepared it. 

On 2/24/2022 at 7:16 PM, Elizzikra said:

We saw O bring it home; Katina asked him how much he bought and he said 50 pieces. They didn't pretend to have cooked it. I think it was in a big yellow box.

Yes, it was store-bought, but also, yes, they did pretend to have cooked it,  When Olu's friend Jeff got there, he said it looked good and asked if they made the chicken.  Katina responded Mm-hmm.  Then he asked if she made it or Olu, and she responded that of course she did.

On 2/23/2022 at 8:41 PM, JenE4 said:

Maybe pairing a purposefully unemployed person with a recruiter isn’t the best plan. She’s going to be constantly trying to get him into job openings.

What puzzled me was when they showed Noi working at that desk in their apartment, and Steve asked her something about her work, she then explained what she was doing in a way that sounded as though they had never discussed her job before, like what you would have said to a stranger asking about your job.

7 hours ago, Kip1 said:

I agree. What Lindsey said was beyond the pale. I can't imagine coming back from that. Definitely verbal abuse. And little of what she said was related to their argument.  She just threw everything out there.

What's frustrating about her is that she only takes into consideration the part that she is 'correct' on, and leaves out the part where she is at fault, and then piles on with her grievances.  She is definitely correct that she was a team player with the hazmat stuff.  But that is beside the point of how she is not being a team player in terms of refusing to consider Mark's point of view about her outbursts (which also is the view of not just Mark, but pretty much everyone, and would greatly help in her interpersonal relations, which is part of what Mark is doing for their team!!).  Then because she is a wounded person coming from a wounded place, she launches into full attack mode, scorched-earth destruction.

[For Cereals]

On 2/24/2022 at 5:12 AM, Mindthinkr said:

For fun, let’s look at it another way. What if Steve is very rich? As in he may never need to work another day in his life if he chooses not to. I’ve heard lots of men with money say they want a woman to love them for who he is, not for what he has. He may have very deep pockets, but chooses to live in a non-monetary way to avoid gold diggers and ladies who are free spenders and in it just for the security. Once he is assured that she is there for the right reasons, then he may disclose the truth about his financial situation. 

This!  I think this is producer driven.  Steve was the only one who had an apartment without roommates and an actual bedroom.  He may not make money in the traditional way, but probably has plenty and other streams of income, which I would be all in and be asking him to share his secrets on making Shep-level mailbox money.

Im finding Noi very rigid and a bit immature.

[kristen111]

On 2/24/2022 at 11:01 PM, kikicat said:

Agreed. I don't think Mark is a wimp. He does seem kind of sensitive, I guess? Not a bad thing, IMO. He's a caring guy with tender feelings who doesn't like to be the center of attention. No match for loud, brash Lindsey. It's too bad because at times they did seem to be good for each other.

Her bathroom rant was so ugly and cruel. As a sensitive soul myself, I wouldn't be giving someone like that a second or third chance even though apparently Mark does in the next episode. I wonder if he heard everything she said?

Lindsey's the shark in this relationship. I really don't understand how Mark got that nickname!

Mark does not like confrontation.  There are many people like that.  Lindsey can go on and on proving her point whether she’s right or wrong.  It’s hard to live with someone like that as it’s very exhausting.  She’ll never give in.  He will never be relaxed married to her, especially in company.  She will ruin all his friendships, as people will tire of her.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

Steve was the only one who had an apartment without roommates and an actual bedroom. 

Chris and Steve both live in houses (that I think they own) and I don't think either of them has a roommate.

Quote

Mark does not like confrontation.  There are many people like that.  Lindsey can go on and on proving her point whether she’s right or wrong.  It’s hard to live with someone like that as it’s very exhausting.  She’ll never give in.  He will never be relaxed married to her, especially in company.  She will ruin all his friendships, as people will tire of her.

I don't think anybody really likes confrontation. I don't, but I'll have a difficult conversation with someone if I think that the issue justifies it and there's a chance of the other person actually listening and having a conversation with me. Mark has learned quickly that Lindsey doesn't listen and she doesn't have reasonable conversations when she is upset. I don't blame him for not wanting to pull her hair-trigger temper. It consistently leads to nasty verbal sparring with her and thus far, it doesn't end in any sort of compromise or shared understanding. I don't blame Mark for not wanting to upset her; it doesn't resolve anything and it's really ugly. 

Quote

Alyssa is on the same track.  Talking the same babyish vocabulary and only wanting a Cowboy.  Not all there in the head.  I love when she’s in the mirror.  Admiring herself.  No depth to her.  Her parents know she’s not there in the head, and hoped to pawn her off to Chris.

You know, it just occurred to me that as Alyssa goes on and on about how Chris is "like a used car salesman, but with houses" ... she is a "social media manager" and I believe she completed some community college. Nothing wrong with that -but it's not like she is a Rhodes scholar and really wanted a partner who could discuss Russian literature or something.

[ByTor]

18 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

If he's in management, their hours, he's more than likely overworked and doesn't have flexibility.  Of course, he was able to have enough flexibility to be on the shows, but managers typically have the least amount of flexibility and the salary they get for it is shit.

Doesn't he sell gym memberships? I'm not really sure what that means. Is he based at the gym & meets with people who are considering joining the gym in person? Is he phone based? I guess flexibility depends on things like that. Like maybe he can check on his mother and grandmother between appointments. In any event, it sounds exhausting.

On 2/26/2022 at 4:57 PM, Lindz said:

I wish Chris would've asked what Alyssa meant by what she said. How was it real? The marriage wasn't. How did she try really hard? To do what? Get matched? No one even cared enough to ask & she probably would've run off if Chris had cuz he's "trying to make her look bad."

I think you answered your own question 😜 "I don't like that...see how he disrespects me...I'm going to step away now..."

[Yeah No]

19 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

What's frustrating about her is that she only takes into consideration the part that she is 'correct' on, and leaves out the part where she is at fault, and then piles on with her grievances.  She is definitely correct that she was a team player with the hazmat stuff.  But that is beside the point of how she is not being a team player in terms of refusing to consider Mark's point of view about her outbursts (which also is the view of not just Mark, but pretty much everyone, and would greatly help in her interpersonal relations, which is part of what Mark is doing for their team!!).  Then because she is a wounded person coming from a wounded place, she launches into full attack mode, scorched-earth destruction.

Bingo!  This exactly!  And destruction it is.  While most people would just have a typical argument about this and in the process come to realize where they are also at fault, she takes it as a monumental betrayal and overreacts like someone just stabbed her in the heart and goes for the jugular, burning all her bridges down with it.  It's very self destructive behavior and very unfair to Mark.  He's not perfect but he doesn't deserve THAT.  And she never learns anything either.  She becomes even more entrenched in her one-way view of her being right and him wrong.

8 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I don't think anybody really likes confrontation. I don't, but I'll have a difficult conversation with someone if I think that the issue justifies it and there's a chance of the other person actually listening and having a conversation with me. Mark has learned quickly that Lindsey doesn't listen and she doesn't have reasonable conversations when she is upset. I don't blame him for not wanting to pull her hair-trigger temper. It consistently leads to nasty verbal sparring with her and thus far, it doesn't end in any sort of compromise or shared understanding. I don't blame Mark for not wanting to upset her; it doesn't resolve anything and it's really ugly. 

I think like you say, he's tried to reason with her without success when she's upset.  But I think he was still trying to do that when he took her aside in the bowling alley, so he hadn't really given up on that.  That's one reason I suggested upthread that maybe he should have waited until later when they got back home to discuss it with her.  It's not even a good idea for reasonable people to have an argument when they're still upset with each other let alone someone like Lindsey that you have to walk on eggshells with all the time.  That's just asking for a blowup.  That was his only mistake, but who can blame him?  This is way more than he or anyone should have to handle.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, ByTor said:

Doesn't he sell gym memberships? I'm not really sure what that means. Is he based at the gym & meets with people who are considering joining the gym in person? Is he phone based? I guess flexibility depends on things like that. Like maybe he can check on his mother and grandmother between appointments. In any event, it sounds exhausting.

I heard that too.  I'm not sure what Mark's job would be like but I also read somewhere that he manages a gym.  How you can be a "sales engineer" at a gym sounds a little overblown.  What he does is a little unclear.  If he's just a gym membership salesperson that doesn't make a lot of income.  According to Ziprecruiter it only averages about $40,000 a year in the Boston area.  A gym manager averages about $40,000 per year in Boston, also according to Ziprecruiter.  Both I guess would be part time positions adding up to a full time one.  So maybe he does both to add up to $60,000, presuming he makes under the average for each.

[Kira53]

 Steve, Chris, and Olajuwon all are living without roommates. Somebody else left out Olajuwon as a person that doesn’t have a roommate. Some of the wives have been living at home so there is some disparity there. Managing your own place and being able to support yourself in Boston without a roommate is a differential in maturity and seem to be in play here.  I believe that Alyssa and Noi are living at home. Their parents home I mean.  Where does Katina live?   I didn’t pay much attention to the home visits and now I regret not looking for keys to how they might live with other people. Now I want to see the furnishings in the apartment and the size. At Steve’s house they distracted me with the LEDs.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Kira53

[Mr. Miner]

On 2/26/2022 at 8:35 AM, Starlight925 said:

You know how many women will be clawing their way to get at Mark

Really? Here's what I know about Mark so far. He lived in a pest infested apartment with roommates. After he doesn't satisfy Lindsey in the bedroom, he goes in the bathroom and clogs the toilets.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

How you can be a "sales engineer" at a gym

Steve is the sales engineer (in IT). Mark is a gym manager and I think that he sells memberships as part of that role.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, Mr. Miner said:

Really? Here's what I know about Mark so far. He lived in a pest infested apartment with roommates. After he doesn't satisfy Lindsey in the bedroom, he goes in the bathroom and clogs the toilets.

Don't forget he also doesn't make that much money and seems to have other hinted-at personal issues, probably stemming from getting involved with people that are not the best.  On the other hand, he seems to be an honest, loyal and true friend, probably to a fault.  I think if we added it all up he'd still come out in the plus column compared to Lindsey.  She cancels out all of her best qualities with her mean streak and is toxic as far as a relationship is concerned.

[Yeah No]

Forget Jasmina and Michael, someone needs to tell Lindsey that Mark is not her enemy.

[LuvMyShows]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think like you say, he's tried to reason with her without success when she's upset.  But I think he was still trying to do that when he took her aside in the bowling alley, so he hadn't really given up on that.  That's one reason I suggested upthread that maybe he should have waited until later when they got back home to discuss it with her.  It's not even a good idea for reasonable people to have an argument when they're still upset with each other let alone someone like Lindsey that you have to walk on eggshells with all the time.  That's just asking for a blowup.  That was his only mistake, but who can blame him?  This is way more than he or anyone should have to handle.

Just have to put in a reminder that, as I found when I transcribed the whole Katina-Lyndsey-Mark thing at the bowling alley, he did not ever take her aside!  The initial Katina-Lyndsey portion happened when they were all together bowling, and was handled by Olu and Mark separately whispering to their wives, and that was the end of it. 

Then the Lyndsey-Mark portion happened later when Lyndsey and Mark were already by themselves at the other end of the bowling alley, and Lyndsey asked Mark why his demeanor had changed.  If he had tried to deflect at that point, and say something about waiting until they get home to discuss it, we all know darn well that Lyndsey would have gotten her dander up about that as well.

[Yeah No]

22 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

Just have to put in a reminder that, as I found when I transcribed the whole Katina-Lyndsey-Mark thing at the bowling alley, he did not ever take her aside!  The initial Katina-Lyndsey portion happened when they were all together bowling, and was handled by Olu and Mark separately whispering to their wives, and that was the end of it. 

Then the Lyndsey-Mark portion happened later when Lyndsey and Mark were already by themselves at the other end of the bowling alley, and Lyndsey asked Mark why his demeanor had changed.  If he had tried to deflect at that point, and say something about waiting until they get home to discuss it, we all know darn well that Lyndsey would have gotten her dander up about that as well.

Yes, I know that.  I wasn't referring to the first part, just the discussion they had when he took her aside, which he did, as can be seen on the video where they are alone and the others are still bowling at a distance.  He didn't have to take her aside unless the show made him do it.  The first part would have been enough for then.  He could have waited until they got home before launching back into that subject with Lindsey.  It didn't look to me like Lindsey was initiating that discussion.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Yeah No

[JenE4]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I heard that too.  I'm not sure what Mark's job would be like but I also read somewhere that he manages a gym.  How you can be a "sales engineer" at a gym sounds a little overblown.  What he does is a little unclear.  If he's just a gym membership salesperson that doesn't make a lot of income.  According to Ziprecruiter it only averages about $40,000 a year in the Boston area.  A gym manager averages about $40,000 per year in Boston, also according to Ziprecruiter.  Both I guess would be part time positions adding up to a full time one.  So maybe he does both to add up to $60,000, presuming he makes under the average for each.

 

3 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Steve is the sales engineer (in IT). Mark is a gym manager and I think that he sells memberships as part of that role.

Mark’s chyron has his job title as “regional sales manager,” which if he were in medical or technology sales or something, he could potentially be making major bank—especially as a regional manager over other salespeople! But then Lindsey said he sells gym memberships—which sounded like you go down to your local Planet Fitness and he’s the guy who asks you to fill out the membership paperwork. I guess this job is somewhere in the middle?? Does he have the salespeople at several gym branches reporting in to him, I’m guessing? Until I hear otherwise, with all of those inspirational quotes on his wall, I’m going to assume he’s like one of those boss babes selling health supplements in a multi-level marketing pyramid scheme.

Edited February 28, 2022 by JenE4

[kristen111]

5 hours ago, Mr. Miner said:

Really? Here's what I know about Mark so far. He lived in a pest infested apartment with roommates. After he doesn't satisfy Lindsey in the bedroom, he goes in the bathroom and clogs the toilets.

Did Lindsey say Mark doesn’t satisfy her in the bedroom?  I missed that.  That comment alone would piss me off if I were him.  One week married and she already revealed all his personal secrets.  Why is he still with her?

 

 

[LuvMyShows]

19 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I might be able to look at it that way if I knew he had tons of money, but if that's the case he still hasn't reassured her enough.  He doesn't have to tell her he has a lot of money, just make comments like, "Don't worry I will be able to keep this lifestyle and we will still be able to afford everything we want anyway".  That's all it would take for now.  

On 2/23/2022 at 9:07 PM, Straycat80 said:

It sounds like Steve has a plan for income and has some money in savings. I can understand Noi’s concerns too. Maybe if he assured her she doesn’t have to worry about money, that would put her at ease. 

On 2/23/2022 at 11:31 PM, Yeah No said:

It's not about what he earns, but about his attitude toward finances.  Just based on what he has said I'm not finding his attitude very consistent with working as a team with Noi about financial planning.  He consistently sounds like someone that doesn't want to have to work with someone else on finances and just wants to be left alone to do his own thing.

I don't think that just knowing how much money he has, even if it was a lot, and reassurances from Steve that he has enough so that she doesn't need to worry, would be enough for Noi....nor should it be!  He does not sound like he has any actual plan at all for finances, beyond knowing that he can earn it at any time with freelancing.  It is very clear that he has no interest in working full-time for a company, and that's OK if what they want to achieve TOGETHER can be achieved without him working full-time for a company. 

But everything we have heard him say, and even what he said to Keshia on the After Party, are all about how he has enough for now, and can cover what he needs to be comfortable now.  So I agree with the part in bold, and there has been no indication that he is amenable to discussing future financial needs, and I think that is what concerns Noi.

[DrewPaul2010]

6 hours ago, kristen111 said:

Did Lindsey say Mark doesn’t satisfy her in the bedroom?  I missed that.  That comment alone would piss me off if I were him.  One week married and she already revealed all his personal secrets.  Why is he still with her?

 

 

She doesn't know what being uncouth is, having etiquette, being lady like or propriety is. Its a shame because she has a lovely face and beautiful eyes. She has no idea how powerful she could be with manners and grace.

 

 

[Gator Stud]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:58 PM, Racj82 said:

The thing with Steve and his work is that people, including Noi, need to realize it's 2022.

A lot of people are not down for 9 to 5 grind anymore. The working 50 to 60 hours a week. Especially when covid hit. A lot of people started to take a look at what was important to them. How they want to live their lives. 

Thank you for saying this.  Why does Noi believe that Corporate America is "safe"? Corporate America just laid off Steve. That's not safe.  I know so many people who reevaluated their priorities during COVID. The "work yourself to death and then retire" model is dead. Since, as COVID has shown us, nobody know when they will die. Steve didn't want his last hour of his life to be filling out a TPS Report at 11PM, while his boss is scheming how to lay him off.  No thanks, I'll pass. 

COVID has taught people that they dont have to do that anymore, and I am sure Steve has gone through the same epiphany. Noi want Steve to be a slave for Corporate America and Steve aint having that.  I had a friend who quit his job tell me that he would rather be broke than work for his asshole boss. That's where Americans are at. That is where Steve is at. If Steve can work for himself why would he work for Corporate America? I hear he has savings and doesn't need to rush back to work. Why is Noi sweating him?

Americans dont even want to go back to the office and prefer to work from home.  Steve is taking it one step further. Not all of Corporate America is clueless.  Some companies, like Oracle, get it and were doing it even before COVID.  Steve can work anywhere he wants.  He just needs good reception.  Steve should probably communicate more effectively about his work situation. Noi is going to have to give up her dream of Steve being chained to his cubicle 8-7. That's just not going to happen. 

[gingerandcloves]

I thought I read somewhere that Mark was a Beachbody sales rep, which if true, would fit it with his "inspirational" quotes. Now I believe he is employed at an actual gym as their sales manager.

[Lindz]

It seems like Mark is just going along to complete the experiment. He's "trapped" in his marriage with a wife no one likes. If only he would figure out how to make it work & Lindsey would calm down. Lindsey is too much for anyone to handle.

[ECM1231]

16 hours ago, Kira53 said:

.  I believe that Alyssa and Noi are living at home. 

Not sure about Alyssa, but I am pretty sure that Noi's parents live in the Midwest. I remember her saying she moved East to Boston, and if I recall correctly, it had not been that long ago. 

[gingerandcloves]

45 minutes ago, ECM1231 said:

Not sure about Alyssa, but I am pretty sure that Noi's parents live in the Midwest. I remember her saying she moved East to Boston, and if I recall correctly, it had not been that long ago. 

I'd be surprised if Noi is living at home, given that she said she had up and followed at least one guy that she was in a relationship with.

[Kira53]

On 2/27/2022 at 11:46 AM, LuvMyShows said:

Yes, it was store-bought, but also, yes, they did pretend to have cooked it,  When Olu's friend Jeff got there, he said it looked good and asked if they made the chicken.  Katina responded Mm-hmm.  Then he asked if she made it or Olu, and she responded that of course she did.

What puzzled me was when they showed Noi working at that desk in their apartment, and Steve asked her something about her work, she then explained what she was doing in a way that sounded as though they had never discussed her job before, like what you would have said to a stranger asking about your job.

What's frustrating about her is that she only takes into consideration the part that she is 'correct' on, and leaves out the part where she is at fault, and then piles on with her grievances.  She is definitely correct that she was a team player with the hazmat stuff.  But that is beside the point of how she is not being a team player in terms of refusing to consider Mark's point of view about her outbursts (which also is the view of not just Mark, but pretty much everyone, and would greatly help in her interpersonal relations, which is part of what Mark is doing for their team!!).  Then because she is a wounded person coming from a wounded place, she launches into full attack mode, scorched-earth destruction.

Not a team player.  She bulldozed Mark.  Thought she was elected a team leader.  She should have left Mark decide what was important to him.  She controlled and helped.  And she did it to “prove” she was a good person so that Mark would stay with her and she would abuse him again.  And she did just that.

Olajuwon and Katina were clearly joking when they said they made the chicken since the box was there. Olajuwon is a joker.  A lot of times he’s just “messin” with somebody.  He is a bit snide.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Kira53

[StatisticalOutlier]

14 hours ago, gingerandcloves said:

I thought I read somewhere that Mark was a Beachbody sales rep, which if true, would fit it with his "inspirational" quotes.

They apparently don't inspire him to have a beachbody. 

14 hours ago, gingerandcloves said:

Now I believe he is employed at an actual gym as their sales manager.

That's what I think. 

16 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

Noi is going to have to give up her dream of Steve being chained to his cubicle 8-7.

I seriously doubt that's Noi's dream.  I think she wants him to have a steady source of income that is enough to support the two of them and their three children, possibly with her staying home with the kids.

Imagine Steve had quit his corporate job five years ago and now said, "I've been doing freelance work from home since then and am making $200,000 a year."  I don't think Noi would have a problem with it, because he's shown he can do it.  All he's doing now is telling her he can do it, and she has no basis to believe that.

Even Steve's friend, when discussing Steve's job situation with Noi, said his company is always hiring sales engineers, and Steve could get a job there any time.  He didn't say, "Steve is killing it freelancing and never needs to even consider having to work for the man ever again."

16 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

If Steve can work for himself why would he work for Corporate America? I hear he has savings and doesn't need to rush back to work. Why is Noi sweating him?

Because she's planning for the future, which living on savings is the opposite of.

16 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

I had a friend who quit his job tell me that he would rather be broke than work for his asshole boss.

It doesn't sound like Noi wants to be broke, so she would be an unsuitable partner for your friend.  I don't think that makes her an bad person, or even an unreasonable one.

16 hours ago, Gator Stud said:

Steve should probably communicate more effectively about his work situation.

What's to say he isn't?  It's possible he's communicating very effectively if the facts are that he doesn't have a job, and doesn't want one right now, or even think he needs one, because he has enough savings.  And if/when it becomes necessary, he'll get one, just trust him.

I don't think Noi would be comfortable with that, and it wouldn't be because of a failure of him to communicate effectively.

[Ilovepie]

On 2/27/2022 at 5:41 AM, Yeah No said:

I've always thought Lindsey's mother is likely almost as bad if not the same as Lindsey.  Children often turn out that bad because the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  I think Lindsey is reacting like someone that was verbally abused in childhood and is lashing out from that hurt.  We don't know how much her father had to do with it but her mother didn't go to the wedding which says something about her.  Her mother may be getting a taste of her own medicine if Lindsey abuses her back.  I don't give any parent a pass, no matter what Lindsey said to her, her mother shouldn't have dissed her the way she did about the wedding.  Didn't we hear that her mother actually went to Boston but then didn't go to the wedding?  If she were so much nicer than Lindsey she would never have done something that hurtful.

I don't think it's fair to judge a person we've never seen and the only thing we know about is from Lindsey, which, consider the source. I would have been prone to think like you and judge parents for kids behavior until I had a special needs kid that has social and behavior issues. You cannot see her issues outwardly - she looks like your average teenager. If you met her, you might think my husband and I are terrible people having raised a rude, uncouth, anti-social kid, but I have spent blood, sweat and tears trying to help this kid with meds and therapy, both for myself and her. Conversely, if you met my son, you would think differently - he's the sweetest, kindest person I know. Yet we are the same people raising completely opposite kids. Many times the apple's behavior has nothing to do with the tree it fell from. Lindsey is a grown woman. Her mother is not responsible for her at this point. The only one responsible for Lindsey's behavior is Lindsey.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Ilovepie

[watchingtvaddict]

3 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

What's to say he isn't?  It's possible he's communicating very effectively if the facts are that he doesn't have a job, and doesn't want one right now, or even think he needs one, because he has enough savings.  And if/when it becomes necessary, he'll get one, just trust him.

I don't think Noi would be comfortable with that, and it wouldn't be because of a failure of him to communicate effectively.

But it doesn't mean Steve is a bad person. He has mentioned maybe compromising how many kids they have because "children are expensive" or "we might have a special needs kid who requires more attention". Noi isn't hearing any of it. So, I'm thinking there is a certain dollar amount Steve is supposed to be making and he isn't. Noi is coming off extremely immature in this situation IMO. She doesn't want to compromise. It's three kids and he needs to pay for them. 

 

[StatisticalOutlier]

19 hours ago, watchingtvaddict said:

But it doesn't mean Steve is a bad person.

I didn't mean to imply he was.  Far be it from me--I posted upthread that I've done the work-a-while then don't-work-a-while thing myself (although I wasn't trying to find myself--I just liked it that way, so if Steve is bad, I'm worse). 

But living that kind of life is incompatible with, to be honest, even having a partner unless the partner is 100% on board with it, and pretty sketchy for taking on big financial burdens like having kids. 

I don't think Noi would be on board even if they weren't planning to have kids.  When I was "between jobs," I actually asked a new boyfriend if he minded that I didn't have a job, and he said he didn't.  But the fact that I asked the question shows that I knew it could be an issue some some people. 

It's not how Noi rolls, and given her background I can see why.  I do think she's being ridiculous with her insistence on exactly three kids, and that does point to a weird inflexibility, but I'm not sure she's just being "inflexible" when she's dealing with what she's likely to view as an existential threat, like Steve's lack of income.

Edited March 2, 2022 by StatisticalOutlier
hyphen