S41.E11: Do or Die

[Whimsy]

Quote

Another big twist threatens to send someone home, and castaways must formulate a plan whether to vote out the big threat or keep playing the game with people they trust.

Original airdate 12/1/21

[jsm1125]

Really, other players? You're letting Xander go through yet another tribal without trying to flush his idol? 

[truthaboutluv]

Also can we take a moment to appreciate Xander not just outlasting but getting to oust Lianna with the use of his advantage after she tried so valiantly to get him out. That's just funny.

But yeah, they're going to need to get rid of Ricard because he's going to win if he makes it to the end. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by truthaboutluv

[mojoween]

Gonna be a real fun look if DeShawn and Danny follow Shan and Liana out the door.

Come on Danny!  Work some magic!

I get that Liana would have lost her vote if she lost the shot in the dark, but she knew there were going to be votes against her anyways.  Doesn’t make sense to me to not use it.

[susannot]

1 minute ago, mojoween said:

Gonna be a real fun look if DeShawn and Danny follow Shan and Liana out the door.

Come on Danny!  Work some magic!

I get that Liana would have lost her vote if she lost the shot in the dark, but she knew there were going to be votes against her anyways.  Doesn’t make sense to me to not use it.

Don't think the show will let that happen but..it's Survivor.  Game must play out the way it does even though racist.

[CraftyHazel]

And it must be said…as much as I despise all of the idols/extra votes/steal a votes/ etc. etc. etc. advantages, this Do or Die twist goes right up there with the Idol Nullifier and Turn Back Time (which was just another idol nullifier) as the absolute worst disadvantages ever.

I watched some old-school Survivor over the holiday weekend and it was so nice, not listening to Jeff babble through every challenge, and to not hear “If anyone has any idols, advantages, twists, blockers, disadvantages, sabotages, etc. they want to play, do so now.”  Geez, stick an idol on each beach at the beginning of the season (and for crying out loud, stop hiding them practically in plain sight in a tree!) if you must, and then STOP!

Edited December 2, 2021 by CraftyHazel
Sight and site are not the same

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

Why would Xander have used his extra vote? Maybe he was worried about Erica, but if she had voted Ricard it would have been a tie.

No, it wouldn't. It would have been a clear vote against Ricard because it would have been 4 votes for Ricard (Danny, DeShawn, Lianna and Erika) and 3 votes for Lianna (Xander, Heather and Ricard). There were 7 players left in the game. Xander's use of the extra vote made more sense than when Shan used it to oust Naseer. 

[Libby]

Oh my goodness, the twist on tonight's episode was awful. They have reduced this wonderful game to a game of chance. 

I will finish out this season. If they continue this nonsense next season, I am through with Survivor after 21 years. What they have done this season is very sad. They have ruined their show.

 

[KaveDweller]

16 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

No, it wouldn't. It would have been a clear vote against Ricard because it would have been 4 votes for Ricard (Danny, DeShawn, Lianna and Erika) and 3 votes for Lianna (Xander, Heather and Ricard). There were 7 players left in the game. Xander's use of the extra vote made more sense than when Shan used it to oust Naseer. 

If Erica had voted for Ricard and Xander used his extra vote on Lianna, it would have been 4-4. (Danny, Deshawn, Lianna, and Erica on Ricard and Heather, Ricard, Xander, and Xander's extra vote on Lianna). Then on revote it would have been 3 on Ricard (Danny, Deshawn, and Erica) vs 2 on Lianna (Xander and Heather). The extra vote would not have been enough to stop Ricard from leaving.

As it was it was 5-3 for Lianna and a waste of an extra vote. She would have been voted out without it.

Edited December 2, 2021 by KaveDweller

[CraftyHazel]

9 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

No, it wouldn't. It would have been a clear vote against Ricard because it would have been 4 votes for Ricard (Danny, DeShawn, Lianna and Erika) and 3 votes for Lianna (Xander, Heather and Ricard). There were 7 players left in the game. Xander's use of the extra vote made more sense than when Shan used it to oust Naseer. 

Exactly.  Xander used his wisely, and he really had limited time left to use it anyway, right?  Just a couple of more episodes, and this one seemed critical, because if Erika flipped, Xander would be right back on the bottom again.

[princelina]

22 minutes ago, susannot said:

Don't think the show will let that happen but..it's Survivor.  Game must play out the way it does even though racist.

If 4 people form an alliance, and then the group of previous underdogs manage to flip some of them and end up voting the rest of the alliance out, is it racist?  That's the risk they took forming an alliance based on their skin color.  It's not racist for their opposition to want to vote them out.

I thought Lianna was a much more gracious loser than her BFF, who sat there on the jury with the sulkiest look ever for the entire time!  I'm off to watch her ponderosa video and see how she acted when she got voted off.  Maybe it's just resting bitch face 😄

Edited December 2, 2021 by princelina

[KaveDweller]

6 minutes ago, CraftyHazel said:

Exactly.  Xander used his wisely, and he really had limited time left to use it anyway, right?  Just a couple of more episodes, and this one seemed critical, because if Erika flipped, Xander would be right back on the bottom again.

He only had a couple more times to use it, but if Erica flipped Ricard was gone even with his extra vote. That's why it was a waste. 

Maybe he just wanted the satisfaction of voting for Lianna twice.

[LanceM]

11 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

If Erica had voted for Ricard and Xander used his extra vote on Lianna, it would have been 4-4. (Danny, Deshawn, Lianna, and Erica on Ricard and Heather, Ricard, Xander, and Xander's extra vote on Lianna). Then on revote it would have been 3 on Ricard (Danny, Deshawn, and Erica) vs 2 on Lianna (Xander and Heather). The extra vote would not have been enough to stop Ricard from leaving.

As it was it was 5-3 for Lianna and a waste of an extra vote. She would have been voted out without it.

This assumes that Heather still votes Liana which I doubt she does as she seems to vote the way that Erika does.  So if Erika voted for Ricard so would Heather.

[CraftyHazel]

17 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

He only had a couple more times to use it, but if Erica flipped Ricard was gone even with his extra vote. That's why it was a waste. 

Maybe he just wanted the satisfaction of voting for Lianna twice.

LOL…you make sense.  It’s already been a long, long week…don’t do that to me!!

I hope he did just want to have the satisfaction of voting her out twice.  She’s had such hate for him, I wouldn’t blame him at all.

[North of Eden]

One principle I want to object about the Do or Die thing. Not saying Deshawn played a good game but what IF it had been the person who played the best game all season. Should they be put out like this...all their hard work and scheming for nothing? I don't think it's fair.

With that said the tinfoil that any Hollywood prop house/FX master could have built a box that would allow Jeff to trigger whatever result the production wanted and it was all stagecraft to gin up some suspense.

Sorry Liana but I'm among the number  not thrilled by the "Very Special Episode" tribal council. You all couldn't know it but another reality show already stole your thunder and they did it masterfully while your dollar store version of The Cookout couldn't hold it together. So the whole segment felt redundant and fell flat...even with the soaring music accompanying Liana's speech.

Hate that everything keeps going Ricard's way and Xander is way too cocky now. Erica may have blown her game.

Shan cleans up nice and the sight of Evie continues to bug while Nassir and Tiffany's reactions seemed to be the polar opposite...one enthused...the other looks bothered at having to show up at tribal...must be a good brunch over at Ponderosa.

Edited December 2, 2021 by North of Eden

[susannot]

49 minutes ago, princelina said:

If 4 people form an alliance, and then the group of previous underdogs manage to flip some of them and end up voting the rest of the alliance out, is it racist?  That's the risk they took forming an alliance based on their skin color.  It's not racist for their opposition to want to vote them out.

I thought Lianna was a much more gracious loser than her BFF, who sat there on the jury with the sulkiest look ever for the entire time!  I'm off to watch her ponderosa video and see how she acted when she got voted off.  Maybe it's just resting bitch face 😄

Agree with all but....the 4 black players of the Alliance voted out in a row...Just does not look good.

Danny wiins immmunity!  Yay!

[Msample]

1 hour ago, jsm1125 said:

Really, other players? You're letting Xander go through yet another tribal without trying to flush his idol? 

So much this. And now that his alliance has a majority he can coast into the final; he’s only got a few more Trivals he can even use it or his extra vote. He’ll win a jury vote vs Richard IMO as he hasn’t pissed anyone off.

[princelina]

2 minutes ago, susannot said:

Agree with all but....the 4 black players of the Alliance voted out in a row...Just does not look good.

Danny wiins immmunity!  Yay!

Respectfully - only if you're looking for something 😊

I agree with you that I was happy to see Danny win immunity.  Also that Deshawn "lived".  They are the only two left who I liked from the beginning - although the others have grown on me and other than Heather, who is kind of a waste of space and will probably be the third finalist (the one who gets no votes), I'd be happy enough with any of them winning, although I'm now rooting for Xander, in spite of what he does with his hair, or Erika, because they both came from behind.  

[After7Only]

22 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

 

Sorry Liana but I'm among the number  not thrilled by the "Ver Special Episode" tribal council. You all couldn't know it but another reality show already stole your thunder and they did it masterfully while your dollar store version of The Cookout couldn't hold it together. So the whole segment felt redundant and fell flat...even with the soaring music accompanying Liana's speech.

 

Didn’t feel redundant to me.   If the cookout was the first time viewers heard these sentiments then it definitely needs to be expressed a whole lot more.   It was definitely something I, and a large number of other Americans could relate to.

 

 

[ByaNose]

Danny has had a quiet edit compared to DeShawn. I’m guessing they’re in the Finals with Heather for a possible easy win for either of them. I thought Xander would be the defacto winner early on but people don’t even mention him less his idol and (now used advantage). It doesn’t even seem like they think he’s a contender. Erika has had more air time since the merge and might take the Heather spot but I’m not super sure about that. The edit has been so tight and on lockdown that I have no true frontrunner. Which is odd since we only have 2 episodes left. Until next week. 

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, CraftyHazel said:

And it must be said…as much as I despise all of the idols/extra votes/steal a votes/ etc. etc. etc. advantages, this Do or Die twist goes right up there with the Idol Nullifier and Turn Back Time (which was just another idol nullifier) as the absolute worst disadvantages ever.

I watched some old-school Survivor over the holiday weekend and it was so nice, not listening to Jeff babble through every challenge, and to not hear “If anyone has any idols, advantages, twists, blockers, disadvantages, sabotages, etc. they want to play, do so now.”  Geez, stick an idol on each beach at the beginning of the season (and for crying out loud, stop hiding them practically in plain sight in a tree!) if you must, and then STOP!

Do you know how thrown off I get watching pre-idol Survivor and Jeff just reading the votes?  I keep waiting for him to say the line about the idols and advantages.  

I don't mind idols, but having idols played, then re-hidden, played, re-hidden, on top of advantages and stupid twists that are a disadvantage to some who actually worked for where they got or whatever idol they have is stupid.  And I'll never forgive this show for letting Cirie go.  She didn't even get voted out, she just had to go.  

I could have sworn Xander had already used his previous vote.  We need a spreadsheet inserted in the show somewhere to keep track.  I don't pay attention to the writing in the TH when a contestant is talking.  Also, if Xander doesn't play his idol, is that the first time in modern Survivor history that has happened?  I mean I know the early days of the idol, but in like the last ten seasons?

Edited December 2, 2021 by LadyChatts

[Tango64]

Where are they getting all these clothes? From one shot to the next they’re in different outfits that look fresh and clean. A pretty pink fleece jacket, a nice green sweater, a clean tan hoodie, all sorts of wardrobe changes.

They used to wear one ratty outfit the whole season. Now they must have racks of wardrobe just off camera  Pfffffft….

 

[LanceM]

3 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

Where are they getting all these clothes? From one shot to the next they’re in different outfits that look fresh and clean. A pretty pink fleece jacket, a nice green sweater, a clean tan hoodie, all sorts of wardrobe changes.

They used to wear one ratty outfit the whole season. Now they must have racks of wardrobe just off camera  Pfffffft….

 

Not really. They have always had multiple articles of clothing going all the way back to season one. Hell. in season 2 they gave them matching raincoats.

[cherrypj]

If everyone opts out of the Do or Die stupid twist, that’ll be the end of it. Can’t wait for the players to wise up, and break it, like they did the Auction. 

[CraftyHazel]

I’m still rooting for Xander and (strangely) Ricard.  Ricard is such a slippery snake…he reminds me so much of Brian Heidik.  Brian was everybody’s number one best friend and yet knifed each of his allies neatly and sweetly in the back.  Ricard dispatched Shan with a big, flashy smile, and although it got his name written down I don’t know that he was actually in much danger.  I’m fascinated by that kind of gameplay…I see them oozing smarmy charm through my TV screen and think, “Come on, how can you not see through that?!”, but I bet I’d fall for it, too.

[Tango64]

5 minutes ago, LanceM said:

Not really. They have always had multiple articles of clothing going all the way back to season one. Hell. in season 2 they gave them matching raincoats.

Alright, guess I misremembered. But I don’t recall them sporting fleece jackets that looked like they just came off the rack at Land’s End. Just more softening of the “surviving” aspect of Survivor. 

[Lantern7]

*siiiiiiigh*

Watching Tribal Council, I didn't feel like rolling my eyes. CBS's push for diversity is a great thing, and we will end up seeing more representation in the years to come on the network's reality shows. I don't think there's a "black vs. white" thing going on. I don't think Xander's butthole puckered up listening to the other castaways. It was a lovely sequence. Sadly, it was mostly overshadowed by Jeff Probst, who has taken the approach shared by this meme:

"Do or Die." Really, Jeff. Deshawn had a 66 percent chance of being sent to the jury. It wasn't put in the hands of the remaining players or the jury. Yes, he elected to participate in the Immunity Challenge after Probst carefully laid out the consequences, but it would have been one of the worst moments if he went out like that. Like I keep saying, I'm emotionally detached from this season, but I know "Death by Probst" is a bullshit way to go out.

The only other time I can remember Probst pulling out "first out of this challenge gets to suffer" was way back in Palau. when Janu got sent to Exile Island's ancestor. That was crap then too, especially since Janu weighed, like, fifty pounds, and she would've been out had she not been with the dominant Koror tribe.

Bottom line: if you actually see Jeff Probst on the streets, yell at him. Loudly. And tell him to ease up on the endurance challenges. But berate him harder about what he thinks makes Survivor "must-watch" television.

[zscore]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

If Erica had voted for Ricard and Xander used his extra vote on Lianna, it would have been 4-4. (Danny, Deshawn, Lianna, and Erica on Ricard and Heather, Ricard, Xander, and Xander's extra vote on Lianna). Then on revote it would have been 3 on Ricard (Danny, Deshawn, and Erica) vs 2 on Lianna (Xander and Heather). The extra vote would not have been enough to stop Ricard from leaving.

Shan confirmed in her interview that you can use the extra vote on the revote, so it would have been 3-3. In that case only Xander, Heather and Erica would draw rock, so Erica would probably switch to Lianna. Xander could have told Erica he plans to use the extra vote to get Erica to vote with him. I don't think his extra vote is wasted

  

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, CraftyHazel said:

I watched some old-school Survivor over the holiday weekend and it was so nice, not listening to Jeff babble through every challenge, and to not hear “If anyone has any idols, advantages, twists, blockers, disadvantages, sabotages, etc. they want to play, do so now.”  

LOL - Agreed. It is beginning to sound like a pharmaceutical commercial. "Please consult with the Producers if you have any of the following: Shot in the Dark; Fake Immunity Idol. Do not play your idol if you are suffering from irritable bowel syndrome. Do not attempt to play any of the props in the Tribal Council: they are not game pieces."

[KaveDweller]

8 minutes ago, zscore said:

Shan confirmed in her interview that you can use the extra vote on the revote, so it would have been 3-3. In that case only Xander, Heather and Erica would draw rock, so Erica would probably switch to Lianna. Xander could have told Erica he plans to use the extra vote to get Erica to vote with him. I don't think his extra vote is wasted

  

But can you use the extra vote twice, once on the original vote and once on the revote? That seems odd because they get an actual extra parchment to vote on when they have an extra vote, and I would think once they use it, they aren't given a second one. Shan didn't use an extra vote on her revote for Nasser. 

Either way, he didn't need to use it to get Lianna out, as Erica didn't flip. She probably should have though, I think she could beat Lianna in the end, but not Ricard.

[30 Helens]

I’m wondering if I missed something, because… Danny spent his entire life, including most of his adult life, being angry at his father for dying in a car accident? I understand being angry at fate, or the other driver, or being angry at his father if he had died of a drug overdose or something else within his control, but a car accident?? That is not only sad, it seems unfair to his father, and I don’t get it.

So now we’ve played Let’s Make A Deal. What’s next, Press Your Luck? Will we get to see Erika shouting “No Whammies! No Whammies!” as Jeff carries her off the stage?

50 minutes ago, After7Only said:

Didn’t feel redundant to me.   If the cookout was the first time viewers heard these sentiments then it definitely needs to be expressed a whole lot more.   It was definitely something I, and a large number of other Americans could relate to.

I agree that most of America needs to hear a whole lot more of this. And it should not be assumed that all Survivor viewers also watch Big Brother. 

40 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

We need a spreadsheet inserted in the show somewhere to keep track.  

This. I have no idea at this point who has what. I didn’t know Xander had an extra vote until he played it. Maybe that’s why the other players aren’t trying to flush his idol— maybe they’re as confused as we are?

[Kaiju Ballet]

16 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Watching Tribal Council, I didn't feel like rolling my eyes. CBS's push for diversity is a great thing, and we will end up seeing more representation in the years to come on the network's reality shows. I don't think there's a "black vs. white" thing going on. I don't think Xander's butthole puckered up listening to the other castaways. It was a lovely sequence. Sadly, it was mostly overshadowed by Jeff Probst, who has taken the approach shared by this meme:

I was with you on the non-eye rolling until I realized while they finally featured Heather(!), they cut away from the other two POC still sitting at tribal council.

[TVFan1]

If Deshawn went out of the game by a game of "chance", then that would have been so unfair. That's just as bad as Cirie going out without a single vote against her. This game is all about being VOTED out, not "oops, you chose the wrong stone and now you're out". I'm glad he stayed. They should never do this twist again. 

Ricard is a very tough competitor. He needs to go soon, or he could win it all. Relieved that Erika is still in the game. She has game.

[CraftyHazel]

12 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

 

I’m wondering if I missed something, because… Danny spent his entire life, including most of his adult life, being angry at his father for dying in a car accident? I understand being angry at fate, or the other driver, or being angry at his father if he had died of a drug overdose or something else within his control, but a car accident?? That is not only sad, it seems unfair to his father, and I don’t get it.

 

Yeah, that made no sense at all.  My mother died when I was barely 15.  She ignored so many signs of the cancer that would eventually kill her, refusing to go to the doctor until my father nearly forced her.  By the time the doctors operated on her, she was so completely riddled with cancer that they couldn’t begin to get it out, and had to close her up and let chemo prolong her life for a few extra months.  She was only 41 when she died.  She never saw any of her children go to a dance, have a first date, graduate high school, get married, nothing.  She had a measure of control over her fate, by ignoring her body’s signs that something was wrong, and I can’t even be angry with her because I know she had to have been terrified to know the truth.  Danny’s dad died in a car accident…even if he (Danny’s dad, that is) caused the accident himself, it still seems pretty crazy to be angry about it for over 20 years.

And just so it’s clear…my brothers and I had a completely shitty existence after our mother died.  Our father basically abandoned us emotionally, married a truly hateful woman 14 months later, and let her abuse and mistreat us.  That’s a dad that deserves some anger.

[Leeds]

 

1 hour ago, princelina said:

I'm now rooting for Xander, in spite of what he does with his hair, or Erika, because they both came from behind.  

I'm more bothered by Jeff's hair.  Surely there's someone who can trim it.

1 hour ago, Tango64 said:

Where are they getting all these clothes? From one shot to the next they’re in different outfits that look fresh and clean. A pretty pink fleece jacket, a nice green sweater, a clean tan hoodie, all sorts of wardrobe changes.

They used to wear one ratty outfit the whole season. Now they must have racks of wardrobe just off camera  Pfffffft….

 

I guess the fresh clothes come out of the same trailer as the food they're obviously  getting.  Remember when they used to end up looking like Tom Hanks in Castaway?

[Steph Sometimes]

That was dumb. I assumed Deshawn would have to do some kind of challenge at tribal. A memory thing or some kind of something other than just random stupid chance. I hate stuff like that. Gave me bad memories to when Dean, through stupid chance, was able to end Janet's game and now I'm annoyed again.

I also assumed that Erika would've been the first out just because a lot of the twists seem to single her out (hourglass, etc.).

Does anyone else really hate when Jeff talks to the viewer before a challenge or tribal? Like he's so excited about what's going to come next, he just can't contain himself even though we're already watching? Shut up.

I'm rooting for Erika or Ricard at this point. I'd be ok with Danny or Deshawn. Xander kind of bugs me for some reason I can't figure out (I'm not Liana -- promise). Heather is Heather.

Speaking of Heather, loved when she said that the only people she could possibly beat were on the jury. Cut to the jury looking thrilled with that answer. In case anyone wondered if Heather would get any votes if she made it to Final 3...

Edited December 2, 2021 by Steph Sometimes

[choclatechip45]

With the edit I thought Danny was going to be voted out. I hate the do or die twist hopefully they never do that again. 

[willco]

Wow, I would have bet money that Deshawn was going just because it was so late when Jeff finally reveled his Do or Die punishment.I didn't think there was enough time left for a vote ! And then I was really, really, sure he was doomed because they gave him a 1 out of 3 chance to win ! Like others have said, that was a shitty thing to do to someone just because they were unlucky enough to go out 1st in a challenge. But the gods must have smiling on him because he not only picked right, but then survived the vote. So , for once, the ending wasn't obvious, to me anyway. 

I still enjoy the show and all, but it is getting a bit ridiculous with all the twists. And this one could have really made the show look bad, had Deshawn lost and got sent away in that manner. Did they even think think this one thru ?

[millennium]

3 hours ago, susannot said:

  Game must play out the way it does even though racist.

Until this season and the culture alliance, I never got any sense that votes were placed on the basis of black or white.   It always seemed to me the only color Survivors truly cared about was green.

[millennium]

24 minutes ago, Steph Sometimes said:

Does anyone else really hate when Jeff talks to the viewer before a challenge or tribal? Like he's so excited about what's going to come next, he just can't contain himself even though we're already watching? Shut up.

I'm so over Jeff's incessant babbling: before challenges, during challenges, after challenges, and especially during Tribal where he keeps at them and at them until he finally gets someone to say whatever thing he believes will create buzz on social media, and only then will he proceed to the vote.   I have often wondered whether Survivors are contractually obligated to answer his questions at Tribal, because if not, just once, I would love for someone to shrug and say, "I got nothing, Jeff."   Tonight, when he was trying to convince the world that Survivor is a microcosm of modern society, I was wishing someone would say, "Hey Jeff, who writes this shit?"

[HappyDancex2]

Maybe I’ve seen too many magic and hypnosis shows lately but the 3 box choice seemed extremely suspect.  The box closest to him seemed like it was bigger and was pushed towards him…like I knew he was going to pick that box and I picked that box yet I felt like I was being forced to pick the box, if that makes sense.  I see you Peachy LOL 

worst plot twist ever, please remove 

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

If Erica had voted for Ricard and Xander used his extra vote on Lianna, it would have been 4-4. (Danny, Deshawn, Lianna, and Erica on Ricard and Heather, Ricard, Xander, and Xander's extra vote on Lianna). Then on revote it would have been 3 on Ricard (Danny, Deshawn, and Erica) vs 2 on Lianna (Xander and Heather). The extra vote would not have been enough to stop Ricard from leaving.

As it was it was 5-3 for Lianna and a waste of an extra vote. She would have been voted out without it.

A few things:

First, the extra vote could carry through for the revote. 

Second, it's not 100 percent that everyone would stick to their original position. Any player could very well flip.

Third, it's easy to judge how good a move is with the benefit of hindsight. I would submit that's the wrong basis for judging a move. Rather, it should be judged with the information that's available to the player. Xander could not know for sure where Erika's vote was going to come down. He thought it was better to hedge the bet try to protect Ricard than risk a 4-3 vote against Ricard. 

But fourth, there's more at work than whether it was necessary to use the extra vote or whether it would have saved Ricard. Xander gets to build some level of trust and currency with Ricard by saying "Hey, I used my advantage to help keep you in the game." That may cement the two of them tighter, and if there's a situation where Ricard's on the jury and Xander is in FTC, Xander can well use that as a selling point for Ricard's vote. It also would potentially be something to put on his Survivor resume. Being able to say "I used one of my advantages to help an ally and not for myself" might be a winning point.

2 hours ago, Msample said:

So much this. And now that his alliance has a majority he can coast into the final; he’s only got a few more Trivals he can even use it or his extra vote. He’ll win a jury vote vs Richard IMO as he hasn’t pissed anyone off.

Liana would like to have a word. :)

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 minutes ago, millennium said:

Until this season and the culture alliance, I never got any sense that votes were placed on the basis of black or white.   It always seemed to me the only color Survivors truly cared about was green.

It seems to me a lot of the early boots have been disproportionately old people and people of color. Now that could be my misperception. Or if it's reality, it could just be coincidence. Or it could be that implicit bias plays a role. Or other possibilities. 

I don't think that contestants on Survivor are any more colorblind than the rest of us. 

[millennium]

1 minute ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It seems to me a lot of the early boots have been disproportionately old people and people of color. Now that could be my misperception. Or if it's reality, it could just be coincidence. Or it could be that implicit bias plays a role. Or other possibilities.

At the same time, there have been people of different ages and racial backgrounds who have made it at least halfway in the game, while others have gone even further.

[Fake Jan Brady]

1 minute ago, willco said:

But the gods must have smiling on him because he not only picked right, but then survived the vote.

By picking correctly he couldn't be voted out.

[princelina]

24 minutes ago, millennium said:

 I have often wondered whether Survivors are contractually obligated to answer his questions at Tribal, because if not, just once, I would love for someone to shrug and say, "I got nothing, Jeff."   

There was that old guy one season who would tell him "the game's afoot" or something like that and refuse to answer 😄

15 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It seems to me a lot of the early boots have been disproportionately old people and people of color. Now that could be my misperception. Or if it's reality, it could just be coincidence. Or it could be that implicit bias plays a role. Or other possibilities. 

I don't think that contestants on Survivor are any more colorblind than the rest of us. 

I think old people being early boots made perfect sense when they were voting for team strength.  If I went on Survivor I'd expect to be in danger early on as a 50ish woman.  Sometimes it is a person of color, but usually you can tell why they're voted off, and it's not their skin color 😄

[Andyourlittledog2]

I didn't so much mind the diversity diversion but IMO it went on way too long. It's Survivor, not American studies or whatever. But it fits in with Jeff's sudden need to be extra chatty this season and to apparently expound on the new Survivor religion he seems to be promoting. I think he takes himself and this show way too seriously. It's a TV game. Get over yourself.

Having the Do or Die be a simple game of chance with a two to one chance of losing was awful. I thought they'd have to do something real like make fire or do a puzzle or something. But no, just pick a box, any box. It was like some carnival game of chance. I am so glad DeShawn didn't lose such a stupid way to go out.

Loved Shan tonight. She looked like she smelled something gross all TC. She apparently doesn't lose gracefully. I do so want to see what she did when she went to Ponderosa. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Andyourlittledog2

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, 30 Helens said:

I’m wondering if I missed something, because… Danny spent his entire life, including most of his adult life, being angry at his father for dying in a car accident? I understand being angry at fate, or the other driver, or being angry at his father if he had died of a drug overdose or something else within his control, but a car accident?? That is not only sad, it seems unfair to his father, and I don’t get it.

Grief, especially when it strikes during childhood, isn't necessarily going to be rational or fair. It can certainly be a messy mix of anger, sadness, love, etc etc. 

Also, I don't think they said in the episode the details of the accident. It could be that his father was the one at fault in the accident.

Also also, it could be that he is embellishing or outright lying about his sentiments about his father for the show and/or the jury. Googling led to an article from his college paper that makes his relationship with his father sound far more positive overall. I've condensed and highlighted some of it.

https://www.lsureveille.com/sports/football-lsu-senior-safety-danny-mccray-s-role-extends-beyond/article_19eda25f-47aa-51b9-befd-6daa69f3eedf.html

Most 8-year-old boys spend their time away from school playing with friends and enjoying life in their own free-spirited ways. But not LSU senior safety Danny McCray. When the Houston native was 8, he was forced to assume the role of man of the house when his father, Roger Wayne Harris, died in a car accident May 4, 1996.

McCray has two sisters — Kemberly, 25, and Dannyell, 16, and his mother, LaQuita McCray-Harris, said they look up to him for everything he has done for their family. "He took on the role of their father and pretty much my dad, too," McCray-Harris said.  ...

Kemberly McCray said her brother writes a message on each of his wristbands before each game in remembrance of his father. "On one wrist he writes [the Bible verses] Proverbs 3:5-6 and my dad's name, and he writes my mom's name on the other one," she said.

...

Danny McCray said he started playing football when he was about 6 years old, and he said his family sticking together helped him heal after his father's death."[My father] got to watch me play for about two years," he said. "It was nice. It was hard [to heal], but my mother had prepared me to be the younger older brother for my big sister and the big brother for my little one." McCray-Harris said the loss of Danny's father likely didn't hit Danny until he left home for college. ...

LSU sophomore cornerback Brandon Taylor said Danny McCray is "a solid tackler" and "the smartest defender we got," and the playing without his father inspires his performance on the field. "I'm watching and trying to learn from him," Taylor said. "Before every game, I see him write on his wristband. That shows me who he's playing for."

Danny McCray said he thinks about his father fondly when he gets the opportunity to make plays for LSU."I know he's watching," McCray said. "I want to put on a good show for him."

In case you were wondering, the Bible verse he put on the wristband is: 

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
    and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
    and he will make your paths straight.

It seems like it could be rough to basically have to be a grownup at 8, if the article is accurate. And I would imagine the pressure of being "the man of the house" would spur some resentment in the mix of most kids having normal childhoods.

Now the above article could be putting an overly positive spin on things, and the truth could be that overall he harbored a lot of anger toward him. Given his dad's last name was Harris, I am curious why he is "Danny McCray" rather than "Danny Harris" or "Danny McCray-Harris." Was there some level of estrangement between his parents, or was it just that he chooses to go just by McCray to honor his mom. 

It should be mentioned that there's a particular dynamic in the black community about fatherlessness that might have complicated things more in Danny's case. 

I did say to myself, "there is no way that Danny doesn't win this immunity on the anniversary of his father's death. There just isn't." And I won't be surprised if he gets to the FTC Danny devotes a big portion of his pitch talking about how his father inspired him in this post-merge stretch. 

[princelina]

8 minutes ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Loved Shan tonight. She looked like she smelled something gross all TC. She apparently doesn't lose gracefully. I do so want to see what she did when she went to Ponderosa. 

Basically tooted her own horn about getting voted out because they were scared of her, etc.  Her ponderosa is worth watching for the song they made up, at her instigation according to her, and she smugly informed us it was a "Shan-ty" - but they all participated and it was a hoot!

[Chicago Redshirt]

22 minutes ago, millennium said:

At the same time, there have been people of different ages and racial backgrounds who have made it at least halfway in the game, while others have gone even further.

True. But the fact that some players of color or of age have done well in Survivor does not mean that racism/ageism isn't a factor in some boots, just as the fact that President Obama, Oprah and Denzel Washington have done well does not mean that racism/ageism isn't a factor in broader society.