S41.E01: A New Era

[millennium]

22 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Probst and the "guys" thing?

*sigh*

I'm happy that CBS is making their reality series more diverse. It feels like we're getting a broader selection of players. But then Probst is all, "Does 'guys' turn any of you off?" In my head, "guys" would be gender-neutral. In a group situation, women can be "guys." Women can even be "dudes." But Probst dragging it out with no real debate afterward was painful. And now, he's going to just say "Come on in!" Felt like a waste of airtime.

 

 I was born in the 1960s, so I have personally watched the evolution of "guys" as a male designation to a widely-accepted, informal, gender-neutral term that refers to any group of people. 

IMO, Probst was shamelessly courting Twitter controversy by calling attention to "guys."  If he or the show were truly interested in promoting inclusivity and gender neutrality (rather than cheap exploitation like this) , they'd do something to put a stop to the constant and annoying team breakdowns/divisions/biases of the men vs. women variety, or the myth that men have more to offer a team than women and should therefore be kept around. 

The "guys" controversy was much ado about nothing.   It's overly-enforced PC like this that makes the mainstream resent genuine considerations and efforts to promote inclusivity.   If I read an article with the headline "Jeff Probst worries about triggering people by saying 'C'mon in, guys,'" I'd think I was reading The Onion.

FWIW, I'm transgender and thought it was ridiculous.

 

[Hera]

I really enjoyed that first episode and didn't hate anyone, including Ricard. I was concerned that I wouldn't be able to keep track of all the new elements based on what I read on here before watching, but it wasn't too bad and I didn't really object to any of them. One change that wasn't so highlighted, but which I really liked, was that immunity challenges are over when the first team wins and there's no reward for second place. Hopefully this means that we'll avoid having a tribe that completely implodes, which is what usually happens on a three tribe season. I don't completely know how I feel about losing tribes having to give up their rewards and then try to win them back at camp, but for now it's fine.

Speaking of trying to win rewards at camp, I was surprised that neither the blue tribe nor the yellow tribe went for the Savvy option. Four hours to count triangles together (you could systematically draw out all the options in the sand) seems like more than enough to me. It seemed like on both tribes, there was someone who was eager to be the hero and win the supplies for the group. I suppose that's nice, but I agree with Voce—it's probably not a good move to separate yourself from the group like that so early on. Plus, if you fail the counting challenge, you fail as a group, whereas failing the water challenge seems like something that would be held against the two people who did it—especially if they were caught searching for idols while they were supposed to be doing it.

21 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I kind of like the prisoner's "trilemma" with the vote risk (and am surprised that a lot of people were familiar with the prisoner's dilemma concept.) Any game theory people have a sense of what the optimal play is against two unknown opponents? I go back and forth. Since the game apparently involves gaining an extra vote that can be used for a bunch of tribals vs losing a vote at the next tribal, maybe the risk/reward calculus changes. After all, an individual vote is probably at its lowest value at a first tribal. Chances are high that either you are not going to have your name selected among your tribemates or if you are, your one vote is not particularly likely to save you.

It depends on how you weigh the extra vote against losing your vote and against the possibility of someone else getting the advantage (and how you think the other players weigh those outcomes). Speaking personally, I would always choose to risk my vote under the rules they showed. Protecting your vote effectively means giving an advantage to anyone who decides to risk theirs, which may well be used against you later in the game. If you risk your vote and lose it, then you know that the other two people made the same decision as you, and you're all equally screwed (and as you pointed out, your vote is probably least valuable at that first tribal council), but there's no room for resentment because it's not like anyone betrayed the group—you all chose to take the same risk, which didn't pay off. I think it might have been better if the reward table looked more like:

0 risked votes: Everyone is safe; no advantages to anyone.
1 risked vote: Player who risked their vote gets an extra vote.
2 or 3 risked votes: Players who risked their votes lose their votes.

At least then you win the advantage in only 25% of the possible outcomes (assuming a strategy of always risking your vote) rather than in 75% of them like on the show. In my scenario people might struggle a bit more with whether or not the expected payoff is worth it. I would probably still risk my vote (at least, I would always risk my vote for the first tribal council) because an extra vote I can play up to Final 6 would be worth more to me than my vote at the first tribal council, and I would also be willing to give up my first tribal council vote just to keep that advantage out of someone else's hands. In the show's set up, there's no way that your decision alone can prevent someone else from winning an extra vote (you have to hope that either you were the only one to risk your vote, or that both other people also risked their votes), which may be why they went with the reward system they did.

3 hours ago, LanceM said:

Is JD the only person in the world ever to say the phrase

"I want to be like Woo!

Just curious.

That stuck out to me as well. He wants to be like two very physical players who have never won? There was someone a couple of years ago who wanted to play like Russell and Woo, which I thought was a weird combination.

[ZeeEnnui]

I liked JD. His manic energy could definitely get old fast but he's like 20 years old (seriously who allowed people born in the 2000s to become adults. I call b.s.!). He's gotta learn to play it cool, stop being such a fan boy, and maybe learn how to tell a story because his recap to the tribe was a whole lot of YIKES.

I'm going to wait and see when it comes to Shan. If you have to tell us you're a villain with a Looney Tunes soundtrack, you're less villain and more lame than anything else. Okay, evil youth pastor way to be edgy (all of the eye rolls).

Did no one ever tell Nassir, snitches get stitches (or a coconut to the head)?

Shut up, Ricard!

As for the "Come on in, guys" debate. I'm a female millennial from Southern California. Hey guys has been in my verbal lexicon since I can remember from coaches to parents to friends. In fact today in a Zoom meeting, my boss greets the team (split of men and women) as guys. It's always been gender neutral in my experience, and it's still used pretty heavily in my daily life with friends, etc. It's like "dude." Now it could be a cultural and regional thing. If it is something that offended someone then I'd respect that and make that change immediately. Just because guys doesn't bother me, that doesn't mean that doesn't it bother other people - my experience isn't everyone else's. I'm all for making everyone feel comfortable. However, what bugs me about this, is that this is just a big corporation like CBS trying to virtue signal, and they weren't subtle about it. This is the barest minimum of what CBS or any corporation will do, and they'll use this as a way to say that they are "woke." The reality is that they won't actually do anything that makes meaningful change for oppressed people and groups fighting for change. They won't donate their time or money to raise awareness and funds for non-profits or communities really doing the work out there. Absolutely no one thinks about saying "Come on in, guys" is going to do anything other than have us all talking on the forum, and CBS wants that because they can pat themselves on the back in the boardroom and go back to being out of touch old white dudes. Also, Ricard totally had a producer in his ear about it. Oh, you slept on it and have changed your mind? Nah....someone on the show was like how can we start shiz on Twitter today.

Edited September 24, 2021 by ZeeEnnui
Repetition is the curse of the forum

[Fretful]

Brad looks like John Glover.

Not loving the give and take of supplies- they'll figure out how to make fire sooner or later.   I don't mind not getting rice, etc, at this early stage, but I don't want them skin and bones at day 18.  But if two people go every week, there are only two more episodes then merge anyway. So that'll be, what, day 10?   I don't see how they can "punish" the losers with everyone at the same beach.

I like Shan, Voce, and  (surprisingly) Danny.  I can see them going far.  I liked Sara.  If they have another second chance season, I wouldn't mind seeing her again.

Danny should have risked.  He handed Xander and JD advantages.

[rr2911]

I've only missed two seasons of Survivor and I was anxiously waiting for the premiere this past Wednesday.  I have never considered not watching the show since Survivor is my #1 reality show......or at least it was.  I rolled my eyes and shook my head when Jeff Probst questioned whether "guys" was offensive to the contestants.  For 40 seasons and 21 years, Jeff has been using "Come on in guys" without any complaints.  It wasn't offensive all those years.  What changed?  The Woke movement is what changed.  If there was a scale from 1 thru 10 and 10 being I would never stop watching this show, well it just went down to 8.  Depending how much "wokeness" is going to be forced down our throats that number might go down even further. 

Another disappointing aspect of the show was the Tribal Council.  I was hoping that all the talking and whispering would stop since a lot of fans seem to not like it.

The 26 days will probably go unnoticed to us.  The show will probably last the same amount of weeks but with many TC's having multiple eliminations.

All in all, I'm glad it's back but disappointed in the direction the show is going.    

[millennium]

I hoped the whispering Tribal Council would result in a blindside with oomph -- Ricard.  But no.   As the player I like least, he will probably go to the end.

[MsTree]

Jeff, all this stupid talk over "come on in guys" is absurd. Why don't you just hire the Price is Right announcer and put it on a loop "Come On Down...."

[Melina22]

17 hours ago, JayDub1987 said:

As far as the votes, ditching Abraham was stupid. You're gonna need some muscle more than you need someone who is "nice" to everyone

This is where women and older people are genuinely at a disadvantage in this game, especially early on.  Many men are good at puzzles but very few women can lift or push huge weights. So for example, no one picked a woman to lug water in the very first challenge, and only fit men jumped on the boat when it arrived, possibly because no one knew what kind of physical things might be expected of them. It made sense to send the physically strongest. 

Obviously women have won the game, so it isn't hopeless but at least in the beginning, they're at a disadvantage, as are older people and extremely bossy people. 😁

[bunnyface]

17 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Obviously women have won the game, so it isn't hopeless but at least in the beginning, they're at a disadvantage, as are older people and extremely bossy people. 😁

Dang...I hit the vote-out trifecta.  lol  Good thing I like my sofa so well, and can direct from there.  

[peachmangosteen]

That whole episode just felt very manufactured.

The stuff with 'guys' felt like something completely meaningless that TPTB (mostly Jeff) can use to pretend they're doing something when they really aren't doing anything.

[blackwing]

I feel like Jeff could have just changed to "come on in" without making a big deal out of it.  I have disliked him and his sanctimonious blathering for years, so I admit to fast forwarding the first bits of his "Hey I'm Jeff and I'm back" intro where he was talking directly to viewers.  Did he say anything about the vastly different racial/ethnic makeup of the contestants this year?  I don't think he said anything about this directly to the contestants, did he?  If so, I missed it.

If he didn't feel the need to say "wow, look at how many racial and ethnic minorities and gay people are amongst all of you"... then why did he feel the need to say about "come on in guys".  Also, I thought he said they were going to discuss and vote.  One woman initially said to not change it and he was fine.  Then the next day, Ricard pontificates and Jeff is all "I agree, it's changed" without even voting.  If he was just going to change on his own anyways, why the whole exercise?

On the Blue tribe, I really like Danny.  Don't know any of the women yet.  I really dislike Naseer and his "OMG they were looking for idols".  They had a four hour task and they got the task done.  It was a physically grueling task, and per Naseer, if they needed to take a break, they were required to sit on the beach and not do anything strategy or game related?  Whatever.  I was really hoping Blue would lose so they could vote him out.

I do feel that the yellow tribe made a mistake in voting out Abraham.  While as Evie stated, it sucks that women always get targeted first, particularly, the older and less physically fit, the fact is that this game is still partly a physical competition.  I don't think being a woman makes you automatically "not strong" and I don't think being older necessarily makes you "not strong".  There have been examples of women and older people who are not viewed as physical liabilities.  Janet the lifeguard from Tommy's season is a prime example.

What I don't understand is why if you know you are auditioning for Survivor, why you wouldn't want to try and get yourself into better physical shape.  I would think you want to be at your best before you go to the casting call or make your online submission.  If you don't want to be viewed as the physical liability, then there would definitely be things you can do to help yourself.

I would have voted out Tiffany easily, because as was pointed out, she didn't seem to contribute much.  It will be interesting to see how this team performs next time.  Until the game of Survivor changes, the older and out-of-shape people (both men and women) will always be viewed as liabilities at the start of the game.  If they really want to change that mindset, then they should have started this season with a non-physical task.  Like a memory challenge.  And not just the typical puzzle pieces because "women are good at puzzles".  I would have included a memory challenge or a puzzle like the triangles. 

I was disappointed that neither team chose the triangles.  There didn't seem to be a time limit on the triangles so I would have had each team member do it individually, then they all compare notes.  Instead, it was "take the two strongest guys and fetch water".  Would have been interesting if it had been dictated that the team had to consist of one man and one woman.  I think Voce (I am thinking this is a last name and not a first name?) should have voiced his opinion more, but I guess he didn't want the "this guy is too smart let's vote him out" concern.

My most disliked person this year is Rickard, so I was greatly disappointed that he was not even a target.  I'm not sure how Genie escaped any discussion, or how the team seemed to decide that it was Sarah or Shan because they lost the puzzle.

My favourites in the cast are Danny, Shan, JD (I like his earnestness and love of the game), and I think her name is Lianna (young black woman on the yellow team).  Rickard, Evie and Naseer can leave any time.

On 9/22/2021 at 10:05 PM, North of Eden said:

Sure I"m forgetting something but I do want say...poor Jeff..between seasons he looks like he's aged another twenty years...and that mullet? No...just no!

 

On 9/23/2021 at 12:07 AM, LadyChatts said:

What's weird is I thought he looked like a different person at TC.  Like, he looked like the old Jeff, and younger, if possible.  At first I thought they photoshopped him in from what he looked like 20 seasons ago.  But I can't get over how much he's aged in a year.  Either that or they cut his normal make up artist and hairstylist.

 

18 hours ago, Kyle said:

And the hair dye. Or at least get a better colorist. He’s almost 60 and jet black hair doesn’t look good on someone that age.

He looks terrible.  He's never looked more old.  I read an article before the premiere in which he states that he's going to have a bad mullet after two seasons.  Did they not bring a hair and makeup person for Jeff with the production team?  How is this season any different?  I assume the crew does COVID tests and passed quarantine, so you would think they could have done as in EVERY SINGLE PAST SEASON and brought a hair and makeup person.

If the point was "we are living in a COVID world" where people don't get their hair cut professionally as often as they used to so we purposely didn't bring a hair and makeup person... why?  TV broadcasters still get haircuts.  Or, do like most of us did during lockdown.  Is there nobody amongst the production crew that can cut everyone's hair?  Or how about ordering some $30 Conair or Wahl clippers from Amazon and doing it yourself?

And he looks even worse when you solve the rebus and enter that "game within the game" website.  It looks like he filmed these bits after the show ended, and he has never looked more old.

11 hours ago, Fretful said:

Danny should have risked.  He handed Xander and JD advantages.

Yes, but if he had, all three of them would have lost their vote.  I wonder if Danny is going to get a notification when he goes to Tribal that simply "you chose to protect your vote, so your vote is safe" or if he is going to be told that at least one of the others risked their vote and got an advantage.

I think it was Xander that was spinning it as how "the tribe" would get an extra vote.  How is that going to work?  Like the whole tribe gets an extra vote to cast against someone from another tribe?  It made zero sense and I was surprised nobody questioned as to exactly what that meant.  He made it clear he was playing for the entire tribe and people gushed in appreciation that he made a good decision for the team.

Edited September 24, 2021 by blackwing

[jsm1125]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

I feel like Jeff could have just changed to "come on in" without making a big deal out of it.  I have disliked him and his sanctimonious blathering for years, so I admit to fast forwarding the first bits of his "Hey I'm Jeff and I'm back" intro where he was talking directly to viewers.  Did he say anything about the vastly different racial/ethnic makeup of the contestants this year?  I don't think he said anything about this directly to the contestants, did he?  If so, I missed it.

If he didn't feel the need to say "wow, look at how many racial and ethnic minorities and gay people are amongst all of you"... then why did he feel the need to say about "come on in guys".  Also, I thought he said they were going to discuss and vote.  One woman initially said to not change it and he was fine.  Then the next day, Ricard pontificates and Jeff is all "I agree, it's changed" without even voting.  If he was just going to change on his own anyways, why the whole exercise?

On the Blue tribe, I really like Danny.  Don't know any of the women yet.  I really dislike Naseer and his "OMG they were looking for idols".  They had a four hour task and they got the task done.  It was a physically grueling task, and per Naseer, if they needed to take a break, they were required to sit on the beach and not do anything strategy or game related?  Whatever.  I was really hoping Blue would lose so they could vote him out.

I do feel that the yellow tribe made a mistake in voting out Abraham.  While as Evie stated, it sucks that women always get targeted first, particularly, the older and less physically fit, the fact is that this game is still partly a physical competition.  I don't think being a woman makes you automatically "not strong" and I don't think being older necessarily makes you "not strong".  There have been examples of women and older people who are not viewed as physical liabilities.  Janet the lifeguard from Tommy's season is a prime example.

What I don't understand is why if you know you are auditioning for Survivor, why you wouldn't want to try and get yourself into better physical shape.  I would think you want to be at your best before you go to the casting call or make your online submission.  If you don't want to be viewed as the physical liability, then there would definitely be things you can do to help yourself.

I would have voted out Tiffany easily, because as was pointed out, she didn't seem to contribute much.  It will be interesting to see how this team performs next time.  Until the game of Survivor changes, the older and out-of-shape people (both men and women) will always be viewed as liabilities at the start of the game.  If they really want to change that mindset, then they should have started this season with a non-physical task.  Like a memory challenge.  And not just the typical puzzle pieces because "women are good at puzzles".  I would have included a memory challenge or a puzzle like the triangles. 

I was disappointed that neither team chose the triangles.  There didn't seem to be a time limit on the triangles so I would have had each team member do it individually, then they all compare notes.  Instead, it was "take the two strongest guys and fetch water".  Would have been interesting if it had been dictated that the team had to consist of one man and one woman.  I think Voce (I am thinking this is a last name and not a first name?) should have voiced his opinion more, but I guess he didn't want the "this guy is too smart let's vote him out" concern.

My most disliked person this year is Rickard, so I was greatly disappointed that he was not even a target.  I'm not sure how Genie escaped any discussion, or how the team seemed to decide that it was Sarah or Shan because they lost the puzzle.

My favourites in the cast are Danny, Shan, JD (I like his earnestness and love of the game), and I think her name is Lianna (young black woman on the yellow team).  Rickard, Evie and Naseer can leave any time.

 

 

He looks terrible.  He's never looked more old.  I read an article before the premiere in which he states that he's going to have a bad mullet after two seasons.  Did they not bring a hair and makeup person for Jeff with the production team?  How is this season any different?  I assume the crew does COVID tests and passed quarantine, so you would think they could have done as in EVERY SINGLE PAST SEASON and brought a hair and makeup person.

If the point was "we are living in a COVID world" where people don't get their hair cut professionally as often as they used to so we purposely didn't bring a hair and makeup person... why?  TV broadcasters still get haircuts.  Or, do like most of us did during lockdown.  Is there nobody amongst the production crew that can cut everyone's hair?  Or how about ordering some $30 Conair or Wahl clippers from Amazon and doing it yourself?

And he looks even worse when you solve the rebus and enter that "game within the game" website.  It looks like he filmed these bits after the show ended, and he has never looked more old.

Yes, but if he had, all three of them would have lost their vote.  I wonder if Danny is going to get a notification when he goes to Tribal that simply "you chose to protect your vote, so your vote is safe" or if he is going to be told that at least one of the others risked their vote and got an advantage.

I think it was Xander that was spinning it as how "the tribe" would get an extra vote.  How is that going to work?  Like the whole tribe gets an extra vote to cast against someone from another tribe?  It made zero sense and I was surprised nobody questioned as to exactly what that meant.  He made it clear he was playing for the entire tribe and people gushed in appreciation that he made a good decision for the team.

If it makes you feel any better, unless the dynamic changes majorly with the green tribe, I don’t see Ricard lasting too much longer. I think it’s clear he’s on the bottom of that now five-person tribe. With Shan seemingly in a great position, JD not having received a single vote, Genie’s name never even coming up in conversation, and Brad only really being taken seriously in terms of a threat by Sara, I don’t see a reason for them to want to keep Ricard.  

[ProfCrash]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Yes, but if he had, all three of them would have lost their vote.  I wonder if Danny is going to get a notification when he goes to Tribal that simply "you chose to protect your vote, so your vote is safe" or if he is going to be told that at least one of the others risked their vote and got an advantage.

I think it was Xander that was spinning it as how "the tribe" would get an extra vote.  How is that going to work?  Like the whole tribe gets an extra vote to cast against someone from another tribe?  It made zero sense and I was surprised nobody questioned as to exactly what that meant.  He made it clear he was playing for the entire tribe and people gushed in appreciation that he made a good decision for the team.

 

I think Xander was pitching it that he would use it to benefit the tribe. So if there is a swap and they are down in the numbers and need to vote to tie up a vote at tribal or help them overcome numbers. His pitch was he took the individual risk to benefit the tribe.

His promise is that he will use the vote to the benefit of the Tribe is about as enforceable as the promise to share an hidden immunity idol. But it makes him look good in front of the tribe, until he doesn't use it when someone wants it used.

Danny's play made some sense to me. He didn't want to risk losing his vote and he was pretty sure that the others were going to risk it, or at least one of them would risk it. I think Danny knows he is in a good place with his Tribe and wasn't overly worried so why risk it? The Xander and JD are young guns who really want to PLAY THE GAME and see that as being more risk acceptant.

[dizzydame]

So one person gets to dictate the change in Jeff's greeting.  The one he's been using over 40 seasons. Well now, isn't he just so special? And Jeff almost wets his pants with joy. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by dizzydame
to add a sentence

[Egg McMuffin]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

He looks terrible.  He's never looked more old.  I read an article before the premiere in which he states that he's going to have a bad mullet after two seasons.  Did they not bring a hair and makeup person for Jeff with the production team?  How is this season any different?  I assume the crew does COVID tests and passed quarantine, so you would think they could have done as in EVERY SINGLE PAST SEASON and brought a hair and makeup person.

If the point was "we are living in a COVID world" where people don't get their hair cut professionally as often as they used to so we purposely didn't bring a hair and makeup person... why?  TV broadcasters still get haircuts.  Or, do like most of us did during lockdown.  Is there nobody amongst the production crew that can cut everyone's hair?  Or how about ordering some $30 Conair or Wahl clippers from Amazon and doing it yourself?

That hairdo is all about Jeff redirecting attention onto Jeff. Same with the “guys” non-issue. Look at me! And see how woke I am!

[dizzydame]

27 minutes ago, Kyle said:

That hairdo is all about Jeff redirecting attention onto Jeff. Same with the “guys” non-issue. Look at me! And see how woke I am!

BINGO!

[Netfoot]

Simple solution:

"Come on in, guyx!"

Because the women forced to wander around on camera in their underwear for a full month or more, while required to engage in physical activity that frequently causes "wardrobe  malfunctions", must obviously feel insulted and belittled every time they are collectively called "guys" (Merriam-Webster: "used in plural to refer to the members of a group regardless of sex"; Oxford: "a group of people of either sex"; Cambridge: "used to address a group of people of either sex"; Collins: "Americans sometimes address a group of people, whether they are male or female, as guys or you guys."; Dictionary.com: "Informal. people, regardless of their sex").

So a perfect solution to a non-existent problem, and not a single sign of virtue-signalling anywhere! Nope! None at all. And it doesn't even sound stupid!

And I'll bet that nobody went and said to the contestants, "Look, this is a thing, and JP is determined to do it, so play along!" and Dicard just jumped at the chance to boost his Social Credit score.

This season is going to be real fun.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Netfoot

[eel21788]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:05 PM, Badlands said:

All 3 choose "Protect": Nothing happens. They keep their votes.

All 3 choose "Risk": They all lose their votes

Split vote: the one(s) who chose "Risk" get an extra vote. The one(s) who chose "Protect" keep their vote.

I'm still confused about the part where they would all lose their votes if they all chose risk. Would they lose a vote at the first tribal council only, or would they lose the vote at the first tribal council they went to?

For example, if they had all lost their votes would it have not effected the blue team anyway because they were exempt from the first TC, or would he have lost his vote whenever he did end up at TC for the first time even if it was weeks down the road?

Edited September 24, 2021 by eel21788

[ProfCrash]

2 hours ago, dizzydame said:

So one person gets to dictate the change in Jeff's greeting.  The one he's been using over 40 seasons. Well now, isn't he just so special? And Jeff almost wets his pants with joy. 

In fairness, Jeff asked. I doubt that Ricard would have brought it up if Jeff had not asked about it in the first five minutes of the game. 

[blackwing]

I am still wondering how Jeffy is going to console himself because this season doesn't seem to contain the requisite good-looking 20-something muscled bohunk that he always salivates over.

Who is he going to lavish all his attention on and give "last name" treatment.  Is that why Voce (that cannot be his first name, can it) is called Voce?  To try and give himself a leg up on everyone for Jeffy's lurve?

36 minutes ago, eel21788 said:

I'm still confused about the part where they would all lose their votes if they all chose risk. Would they lose a vote at the first tribal council only, or would they lose they vote at the first tribal council they went to?

For example, if they had all lost their votes would it have not effected the blue team anyway because they were exempt from the first TC, or would he have lost his vote whenever he did end up at TC for the first time even if it was weeks down the road?

I think it makes the most sense that they would lose a vote at the first tribal council they went to.

I think both Xavier and JD told their tribes that they protected their votes, right?  Xavier saying he did it for the team to protect the team and JD saying he wanted to protect his vote for himself?

1 hour ago, Kyle said:

That hairdo is all about Jeff redirecting attention onto Jeff. Same with the “guys” non-issue. Look at me! And see how woke I am!

Yes, agreed.  Jeffy always makes everything about himself.  So I do agree that him refusing to cut his hair is all about him pretending to be "just like all of you at home that haven't cut your hair" because he's such an everyday man of the people.

I'm sure he will be scouring the internetz looking for media mention of his awful looking hair and hoping that writers are talking about how "brave" he is for not dyeing his hair and letting people see him in all his natural state.

20 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

In fairness, Jeff asked. I doubt that Ricard would have brought it up if Jeff had not asked about it in the first five minutes of the game. 

Well, the issue was over and done.  Jeffy asked about it, he didn't say anything.  The woman spoke up and said she was fine with it.  No one disagreed.  Then the next day, Ricard decided he needed to seize the spotlight and decided that he needed to have his "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, for I am Ricard the champion of the weak and oppressed and all that is holy" speech.  This guy cannot leave fast enough.

Granted, I think it's entirely likely that once no one objected to "come on in guys" on the previous day, that everyone was asked about it in an intervening Talking Head confessional interview.  And then perhaps strongly encouraged to "speak up" the next time you see Jeffy.  It just seems too calculated.  I'm sure Jeffy was way disappointed that he was not allowed to show that he is the leader of social change on Survivor and strongly encouraged someone to say something.

Edited September 24, 2021 by blackwing

[MsTree]

9 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

That whole episode just felt very manufactured.

The stuff with 'guys' felt like something completely meaningless that TPTB (mostly Jeff) can use to pretend they're doing something when they really aren't doing anything.

Exactly...and was only done because everyone these days MUST be "woke" 🙄

[JayDub1987]

18 hours ago, millennium said:

I hoped the whispering Tribal Council would result in a blindside with oomph -- Ricard.  But no.   As the player I like least, he will probably go to the end.

I've already resigned myself to the fact that he's gonna win. It always happens to me on this show.

[millennium]

14 minutes ago, JayDub1987 said:

I've already resigned myself to the fact that he's gonna win. It always happens to me on this show.

Same here.   I really don't know why I watch.

[JayDub1987]

8 minutes ago, millennium said:

Same here.   I really don't know why I watch.

Because we're gluttons for punishment! I really don't know the last time I was happy with a Survivor winner, but here I am...every season. 

[millennium]

Just now, JayDub1987 said:

Because we're gluttons for punishment! I really don't know the last time I was happy with a Survivor winner, but here I am...every season. 

The good news is, Tony can't win this season. 

At least I don't think he can.

[LadyChatts]

5 hours ago, JayDub1987 said:

I've already resigned myself to the fact that he's gonna win. It always happens to me on this show.

I don't know about that, but I've resigned myself to the fact that he's probably going to get far.  And have a lot to say every episode.  I already get the vibe he thinks he's running things and in control.  But hey, I never would have guessed that Nick would win S37 so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised and they're letting Ricard run his mouth now because he'll be out soon.  I can hope.  

[SVNBob]

10 hours ago, blackwing said:

I think both Xavier and JD told their tribes that they protected their votes, right? 

Xander said he risked, and specifically told the rest of Yellow that if he got the extra vote that he would use it for the good of the tribe (as in a swap or merge with Yellow down in numbers).  I anticipate a scene at the start of the next episode where he reveals that he did indeed get the extra vote and everyone celebrating.

JD said he protected.  And that lie was the one clear and non-rambly part of his story.  That does not bode well for him if he gets to play again.

[rr2911]

19 hours ago, Kyle said:

That hairdo is all about Jeff redirecting attention onto Jeff. Same with the “guys” non-issue. Look at me! And see how woke I am!

I agree!  I can imagine in production meetings before this season, Jeff probably wilted and told everyone the show has to be more diverse and flow with the woke crowd to get more viewers.  Like someone said, this decision about "guys" was probably already decided.

[Wandering Snark]

5 hours ago, rr2911 said:

Like someone said, this decision about "guys" was probably already decided.

I'd guess someone got in his ear to 'step up' before the next challenge and say he didn't like the 'guys' thing so they could continue to go ahead with it. I still don't like the 'well one person said it bothered him' overthrow of the phrasing.  Taking that feedback in favor of some who specifically said that it didn't and everyone else declined to say anything agreeing it wasn't a big deal. But hey, you get ONE vote against and boom it's done. So yeah I feel it was already a change they were going to make either way, for appearances. 

[watch2much]

there have been seasons in the past where no food was given.....Marquesas, for instance, and it was 39 days not 26.  I seem to remember more but can't think of them right now.  

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Wandering Snark said:

I'd guess someone got in his ear to 'step up' before the next challenge and say he didn't like the 'guys' thing so they could continue to go ahead with it. I still don't like the 'well one person said it bothered him' overthrow of the phrasing.  Taking that feedback in favor of some who specifically said that it didn't and everyone else declined to say anything agreeing it wasn't a big deal. But hey, you get ONE vote against and boom it's done. So yeah I feel it was already a change they were going to make either way, for appearances. 

I do agree that this was all performative and it didn't matter WHO the one person was, it just mattered that there WAS one person.

That being said, I'm looking at this from a slightly different angle. If there were more who did care or who would have wanted to speak up, there could be the worry that speaking up in this capacity during your very first meeting and first impressions of the other players could put a target on your back. There's a reason why women and minorities don't tend to speak up right away in games. It's because they could say the wrong thing and be made as a target right off the bat, so perhaps some people would have liked the change but feared speaking up may make them look "difficult" and, thus, an easy first target.

Of course, for white men, it's a lot easier to speak up right off the bat because there isn't as big of a fear of being a target for speaking their mind. 

That's not to say everyone else wasn't fine with the "come on in, guys" speech, but there could have been people agreeing with getting rid of the "guys" but didn't want to say it on the very first hour of the game starting. 

That being said, the show did what it wanted: to get people TALKING about it. Either way, this is the biggest topic of discussion for the very first episode, so the show wins.

[Blissfool]

On 9/23/2021 at 9:50 AM, Melina22 said:

Agreed. I think what most of us are finding annoying is that until this episode, this "guys" thing has been a complete non-issue. Not once in my life have I ever seen anyone, male or female, upset by it either on or off the show. 

I'm a teacher that uses "guys" (geez, now I'm afraid to admit it). My social media algorithm leads me to teacher social media. Very, very frequently there are posts from woke teachers surprised by the audacity of teachers using "guys" to refer to their students.

One term they suggest we use is "scholars." 🙄

On 9/23/2021 at 10:25 AM, kikimom said:

Did anyone else think that Evvie looked like Harry Potter with the bowtie & jacket or just me?

I guess I could see Harry Potter, but really, I was thinking Clay Aiken.

On 9/23/2021 at 6:58 PM, JudyObscure said:

Yes, and it's so forced. I just watched it again and Ricard says: "The reality is Survivor has changed over the last 21 years and these changes have allowed all of us Black people, Asian people, queer people to be here simultaneously."

And JD talking about how Survivor helped him triumph over bullies.

I watch just for fun. It ain't that deep (for me).

On 9/23/2021 at 7:36 PM, Msample said:

As a lifelong Dallas Cowboys fan, I’m on Team Danny.

I'm not a football fan at all, but I'm Team Danny too. He's just so personable. He's my fave so far. 

On 9/24/2021 at 10:26 AM, blackwing said:

My most disliked person this year is Rickard, so I was greatly disappointed that he was not even a target.

My guess is it would not have looked very woke to evict the most woke person on the island on the first day.

Hopefully, he doesn't last too long.

That being said, it was ironic that after the challenge in which Ricard voiced his woke opinion, we saw the members of the losing teams saying things like "Sorry, I messed up, guys." or "That was tough, guys."

 

[Blissfool]

When Jeff was reading the votes, I automatically knew it was Rickard who voted for Sara with the fancy script swirly "S."

The vote reveal at the end confirmed it.

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, Blissfool said:

One term they suggest we use is "scholars." 🙄

Excellent suggestion. I'm sure Dickens would approve. Alternatively, may I suggest "peeps". 

[Cozytea]

I finally got around to watching this. I was enjoying it but admit I wasn't paying close attention at some parts at the beginning. So I missed the "come on in, guys" question.  And when Ricard brought it up later I miss heard him and thought he said Jeff had asked their opinion about Kamala Harris....lol. I rewound several times saying to myself what the hell?? I finally understood what they were talking about when Jeff started talking . Let me just tell you i laughed so hard at myself. In my defense Kamala Harris  and "come on in, guys" sound similar if said fast, yeah that's the story I'm sticking to. 😄

[himela]

On 9/23/2021 at 8:27 PM, jsm1125 said:

I can’t tell if Genie was trying to throw her vote on Ricard in case Sara or JD went for the dice advantage and were kept safe, or if Genie was just that out of the loop.

She did this in case Sara used her advantage and she was safe. Then the 4 of them would re-vote for Brad or Ricard and Ricard would leave.

[Jobiska]

However one feels about Ricard and/or him being the one to speak up about his discomfort with "guys" and/or whether that was producer prompted, I want to say this:

Policies about inclusivity are not "majority rules."

So yes, if one person speaks up, even though others had previously said they were okay, their okay-ness and their numbers do not trump his discomfort.  (They even showed Evvie nodding sympathetically as he spoke, as if she was fine and understanding re his argument, even though she'd previously said she was okay).

It would be like standing in front of a volunteer group, say, of 10 men and 2 women, saying "hey, women should always be the note-takers," and all the men agreeing and the women disagreeing, and then them saying "well, majority rules, you're the note-takers." 

Not that that doesn't happen all over the place, it's just that I'm glad that one person's expressed discomfort is heeded.

(And one more note:  It's not possible to say "it never bothered anyone till now" unless you poll every single cast member, watcher, crew person, etc.  It didn't bother you, sure, you never heard anyone complain, quite likely, but it doesn't mean it didn't bother anyone).

And now on to other things:  Shan's theme song: It's like the first six notes of the cat's theme in Peter and the Wolf (the cat is basically a bad guy, er, bad person, er, bad animal in Peter and the Wolf because it threatens Peter's oh-so-precious bird).  (Cats and ducks were my favorite animals when I was a kid, and since the cat is scorned by Peter and the duck gets eaten, oh, spoiler alert, I didn't care much for Peter and the Wolf).

That one person repeatedly chasing crabs into the sea and then running away from the waves was funny.

The person with leggings with latticed openings is sure going to have an interesting tan if she lasts a long time.

I like JD.  

And yes, to the person who queried Xander's floppy lock of hair:  From his bio: "Which past Survivor will you play the game most like? Any of the pretty-boy-challenge-beast-charmers, just take your pick: Jay, Joe, Devon."  

His bio cracks me up, by the way.  Very overblown and flowery. I kept trying to mimic its tone whenever he had a moment (gazing out from the mountaintop, etc.).  

[Genius]

On 9/22/2021 at 11:58 PM, Michichick said:

Probst asking the players to vote about “come on in, guys” felt forced and too “try hard” to me. Since he realized saying guys was incorrect, he can just stop saying it without needing to turn it into a lecture-y very special episode of Survivor. 

Seriously, just do it.  No need to call attention to it, especially by making it a vote.  You don't do the right thing by vote.  You just do it.  Ugh, Jeff is such a tool.  Forever a tool.

On 9/23/2021 at 12:06 AM, EllenB said:

Come on in, folks!

Come on in, people!

Come on in, players!

How about "Come on in, tribes!" and after they merge, "Come on in, tribe!"?  Easy peasy.  So of course Jeff belabors it and gets it wrong.

And by the way, Jeff looked like SHIT.  What happened to him??

[Wandering Snark]

I guess they immediately took 'C'mon in, bitches!" off the table?

[Blissfool]

25 minutes ago, Genius said:

 

How about "Come on in, tribes!" and after they merge, "Come on in, tribe!"?  Easy peasy.  So of course Jeff belabors it and gets it wrong.

 

Careful, tribe is also a non-pc word.

I won't be surprised if they opt for a different term soon.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 9/24/2021 at 8:19 PM, millennium said:

The good news is, Tony can't win this season. 

At least I don't think he can.

You just jinxed it! Watch him get airlifted in around Day 25, or it getting revealed that he has been hanging out in a new Spy Shack All Along.

[SweetSable]

3 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Careful, tribe is also a non-pc word.

I won't be surprised if they opt for a different term soon.

It could be changed to "Come on in teams" or "come on in players."  

[Genius]

Voce is his last name?  Ugh.  The only people who choose to go by their last name on Survivor are d-bags.  Is that a kiss-ass attempt to Jeff, who loves calling alpha males by their last name?  Yuck.

[Nashville]

On 9/23/2021 at 12:58 AM, Primetimer said:

What's the heterosexual equivalent of taking a hit of poppers and then charging onto a dance floor?

Um… taking a hit of poppers and then charging onto a dance floor, maybe?  Or was that just an 80s thing?

If you’re tired but want to accelerate 

Just take a hit of amyl nitrate!

 

On 9/23/2021 at 6:41 AM, Melina22 said:

Brilliant catch! I love it. 

As for the "guys" thing, I'm old, and I've been saying guys as a gender-neutral expression literally my entire life. It's "Hey, come over here, you guys!"  What am I going to say? "Hey, come over here, people!" "Folks" is out of the question. It's the only thing that works for me and no one is offended. 

 

 

6 hours ago, SweetSable said:

It could be changed to "Come on in teams" or "come on in players."  

Or “Come on in, survivors!” - radical thought, I know….

[Chicago Redshirt]

All this "guys" discussion made me flash back to my childhood and the obviously sexist intro from this show/sarcasm:

 

[ProfCrash]

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

All this "guys" discussion made me flash back to my childhood and the obviously sexist intro from this show/sarcasm:

 

I loved the Electric Company. 

[Fretful]

18 hours ago, Genius said:

Voce is his last name?  Ugh.  The only people who choose to go by their last name on Survivor are d-bags.  Is that a kiss-ass attempt to Jeff, who loves calling alpha males by their last name?  Yuck.

Abraham used his last name, too (and look what happened to him).  Some people are just more comfortable with it.  

[Taeolas]

With respect to the "Count Triangles" vs "Carry Water" first challenge; while I love mind games like the triangle count, the "One guess only" clause would have knocked it off the table right off the bat. If it was "1 guess every 10 minutes" or something like that, then it would be worth trying. 

But 1 guess only, then you risk wasting hours to get it wrong, so now you're out of camp building time AND you don't get the flint and machete.

 

The water carry task is more physically taxing, and it takes your 2 strongest teammates out of camp-building right off the bat (when you'd probably want them most to help do the initial campsite clear). But at least as you are doing it, you can feel your progress towards completing the tax, and others could see your progress too if they wanted to check (as we saw with the blue team).

Counting triangles on those types of puzzles, you always have the doubt; you're always second guessing yourself, wondering if you double counted something, or you sketched something wrong, if you're off by one. And the longer you stare at it to try and solve it, the more the lines will start to blur together. 

 

So yeah, the water carry task was the right one to pick in this situation, without a doubt. 

[seacliffsal]

I think just "come on in" would work.

[GenerationX]

Random thoughts on episode 1 "Jeff Wakes Up":

• The show has become so self-aware it has achieved sentience
• Advantages used to need only a rhyming couplet with erratic meter to be understood
• You know, no one would have to whisper at tribal if they allocated enough time to finish their plotting back at camp [/turning into my dad]

The best part of the show was listening to Shan talk about her scheming - specifically the little melody that runs through her head while she's doing it.  The show came in with backing music for her, and it was a fun minute.  The show needs to remember its prime directive is to be fun.