Gymnastics

[choclatechip45]

It's so refreshing to see Jordan, Suni and Grace happy with the Silver medal. It really shone through during the Maria Taylor interview. I always hated how the Athens and Bejing teams seemed depressed after getting the silver. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by choclatechip45

[Conotocarious]

20 minutes ago, ferjy said:

So an athlete can quit because they feel they're not doing well? I didn't realize that was allowed.

 

 

There’s a lot more to it than that.

[Snow Apple]

I'm confused. I thought withdrawing (especially so early) means forfit. Can someone who know the rules better than me explain why Simone still get a team medal? I don't know much about sports.

[ferjy]

8 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

There’s a lot more to it than that.

I'll have to rewatch the video tomorrow when I'm not as tired. I just heard her say she was pulling out becaude of her poor performance.

 

6 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I'm confused. I thought withdrawing (especially so early) means forfit. Can someone who know the rules better than me explain why Simone still get a team medal? I don't know much about sports.

I'm not familiar with gymnastics either. It does seem too easy a back out.

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by ferjy

[kittykat]

She completed one event in the final and all of qualifying.  She was still part of the team effort hence the medal.

 

[Conotocarious]

35 minutes ago, ferjy said:

I'll have to rewatch the video tomorrow when I'm not as tired. I just heard her say she was pulling out becaude of her poor performance.

 

I'm not familiar with gymnastics either. It does seem too easy a back out.

 

She was losing her air awareness, meaning she had no idea where she was in the air. With the skills she does, she could end up with a devastating injury or even a fatal one . It has happened before, with gymnasts in the past. If your aren’t on your mental game in basketball, you play lousy. In gymnastics, you could end up paralyzed. If you are not familiar with gymnastics look up Julissa Gomez and Elena Mukhina. 

Watch the replay of her vault. There is absolutely a WTF on her face when she realizes she is landing and not still twisting. It’s really scary.

On another note, that press conference was really cute. How many times can they say “At the end of the day”. They need to do a whole Les Miserables song with gymnastics lyrics. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Conotocarious

[tanyak]

8 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

She was losing her air awareness, meaning she had no idea where she was in the air. With the skills she does, she could end up with a devastating injury or even a fatal one . It has happened before, with gymnasts in the past. If your aren’t on your mental game in basketball, you play lousy. In gymnastics, you could end up paralyzed. If you are not familiar with gymnastics look up Julissa Gomez and Elena Mukhina. 

Exactly. Doug Gottlieb, who is an idiot sports commentator, was all like “What if LeBron quit during the finals?” If LeBron was feeling off of his game during the finals, the worst he could do would be to clank a dunk or airball a few shots. Not break his neck. 

[Dots And Stripes]

34 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I'm confused. I thought withdrawing (especially so early) means forfit. Can someone who know the rules better than me explain why Simone still get a team medal? I don't know much about sports.

The qualifying round all 4 team members could do each apparatus with the top 3 scores counting.

For the finals, it’s 3 up and 3 count, meaning the team picks 3 athletes to compete for each apparatus and all scores count. That leaves one team member out of each rotation.

When Simone left today’s competition, that meant there were still 3 athletes available to compete on each apparatus. Jordan had been planning to sit out bars and beam. Suni was going to sit out floor. Apparently Suni hadn’t warmed up her full floor routine. It’s amazing what they were able to pull off.

[aradia22]

Quote

This is really tricky but ...

the US has a particularly awful history of viewing black athletes more like prized racehorses than actual people. 

YUP. I don't follow male sports as much (honestly, I don't really follow sports outside of the Olympics) but I'm sure the commentary is also ridiculous and dehumanizing in football, basketball, and other sports where black athletes are most of the top players. I think the misogynoir makes it harder on women for their perceived "weaknesses" or "emotions" which is evident with Naomi Osaka and Serena Williams, but even the praise can be dehumanizing. It's something like model minority. People talk about you like you're superhuman or invulnerable to pain or you have "natural" abilities and not like you are another human competitor who put in a lot of practice and hard work to compete to the best of your ability. Out of curiosity, are there any non-white Olympics commentators or sports writers?

[aradia22]

Quote

Can we ban wolf turns? I think that has to be one of the ugliest skills in gymnastics, and everyone is doing them now.

I thought it looked cool to see a quasi-ice skating move and was impressed at how they could control the spin. I'm sorry!

[satrunrose]

1 hour ago, ferjy said:

So an athlete can quit because they feel they're not doing well? I didn't realize that was allowed.

 

 

I really appreciated other gymnastics commentators explaining how dangerous Simone's... whatever you want to call it... was. It's the same reason why you wouldn't want a race car driver to compete if they had insomnia the night before and that makes perfect sense to me. On the other hand, I don't think that came across in the press conference. If I hadn't been watching other commentators or following on this site, I would have gotten the same impression as above.

[DawnDavenport]

1 minute ago, aradia22 said:

I thought it looked cool to see a quasi-ice skating move and was impressed at how they could control the spin. I'm sorry!

My understanding they are going to be de-valued in the next code and there are going to be limits on the number of turns a gymnast can do in one routine so that should help with the issue. I'll be happy to never see a 3-2 wolf turn combination ever again!

[satrunrose]

13 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Out of curiosity, are there any non-white Olympics commentators or sports writers?

Perdita Felicien (Black Canadian Hurdler) is co-hosting some of the CBC coverage. I don't know if she'll be commenting more directly, though.

[selkie]

23 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

 Out of curiosity, are there any non-white Olympics commentators or sports writers?

Ato Bolton and Sanya Richards-Ross are pretty regular track and field commentators. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by selkie

[emmawoodhouse]

9 minutes ago, selkie said:

Ato Bolton and Sanya Richards-Ross are pretty regular track and field commentators. 

Vince Carter is the analyst in the US/Iran basketball game airing on Peacock.

[aradia22]

But not for gymnastics, right? I don't remember anyone for ice skating in the Winter games either but I don't pay that much attention to commentary.

[KAOS Agent]

Dominique Dawes did some commentating in Beijing, but she's mostly focused on other things now. 

[Lady Whistleup]

Ok going to bed but Tatiana Gutsu had her gym kids record messages for Simone.

 

[cmahorror]

Simone deserves praise for recognizing that she was in a situation that could not only cause physical injury to herself but also risk all the hard work her teammates had put in to getting to the Olympics. She could have tried to "push through" but at what cost to herself and her team? A true leader recognizes when their personal goals interfere with the goals of the team and puts their own goals aside. At the end of the day, they are still four of the best athletes in the world and that is something to be proud of.

Question: Since McKayla Skinner had the fourth best vault totals in the prelims, would she be able to compete in the vault finals if Simone withdraws? I don't know how the apparatus finals work.

[NUguy514]

Simone has officially withdrawn from the AA.

[Daisy]

38 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

Simone has officially withdrawn from the AA.

Good. She obviously doesn't feel well. She needs to rest and get better whatever is plaguing her. 

[GreyBunny]

Her health and safety is most important. Good for her for having the bravery to say no and walk away instead of risk serious injury or death just to please others. She’s doing the most GOAT thing of all.

[Ceindreadh]

59 minutes ago, cmahorror said:

Simone deserves praise for recognizing that she was in a situation that could not only cause physical injury to herself but also risk all the hard work her teammates had put in to getting to the Olympics. She could have tried to "push through" but at what cost to herself and her team? A true leader recognizes when their personal goals interfere with the goals of the team and puts their own goals aside. At the end of the day, they are still four of the best athletes in the world and that is something to be proud of.

Question: Since McKayla Skinner had the fourth best vault totals in the prelims, would she be able to compete in the vault finals if Simone withdraws? I don't know how the apparatus finals work.

I think that it’s the same as with the All Around. If a gymnast withdraws - or is withdrawn by their team - another gymnast from the same country can take their spot. If a gymnast without a team withdraws then it goes to the reserve spot. 
 

AFAIK, ever since Atlanta 1996, coaches have had the option to swap out gymnasts after qualifying and it doesn’t have to be because of injury. Usually it’s done strategically, to get in the gymnast most likely to medal. 

[Cherpumple]

Can we please go back in time to before Kohei fell off the high bar in the qualifications? I feel like that's what spun us into this depressing alternate timeline. Maybe the kabuki dancer from the opening ceremonies can come perform a blessing in the gymnastics arena too, for good measure.

[Lady Whistleup]

watching men's AA right now. I wouldn't mind a dedicated Artur cam. What a beautiful man.

[merylinkid]

Honestly I wonder if the Games being a year off and the whole Covid protocols is throwing people off.    Not just in gymnastics which seems to have a lot of really good athletes having really off days all at the same time, but in other sports too based on what I am hearing.  

[Jess14]

4 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

I think that it’s the same as with the All Around. If a gymnast withdraws - or is withdrawn by their team - another gymnast from the same country can take their spot. If a gymnast without a team withdraws then it goes to the reserve spot. 
 

AFAIK, ever since Atlanta 1996, coaches have had the option to swap out gymnasts after qualifying and it doesn’t have to be because of injury. Usually it’s done strategically, to get in the gymnast most likely to medal. 

This is true, but only if a gymnast from the same country actually qualified and didn’t make the finals because of the 2-per country rule. So, Jade Carey and McKayla Skinner will/would compete AA and vault if Simone ends up withdrawing from everything. However, an American would not replace her in the bars, beam, or floor finals because none of the other US gymnasts (other than the ones who are already qualified) were Top 8 on those events during qualifying.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Jess14
Clarity

[Conotocarious]

5 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Simone has officially withdrawn from the AA.

As much as she tried to be calm and matter of fact in the press conference there is clearly a lot of inner turmoil for Simone. I hope she able to find the peace she needs because this must be just awful for her.

1 hour ago, Cherpumple said:

Can we please go back in time to before Kohei fell off the high bar in the qualifications? I feel like that's what spun us into this depressing alternate timeline. Maybe the kabuki dancer from the opening ceremonies can come perform a blessing in the gymnastics arena too, for good measure.

I’ve been thinking a lot about Kohei too. 

[Conotocarious]

17 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Honestly I wonder if the Games being a year off and the whole Covid protocols is throwing people off.    Not just in gymnastics which seems to have a lot of really good athletes having really off days all at the same time, but in other sports too based on what I am hearing.  

I keep coming back to the conclusion that this whole Games should really not even be happening. I thought so before and I still do now. Stupid pandemic. 

[blueray]

I somehow was not spoiled at all and watched some of the NBC coverage. I turned it on halfway through though. And was confused on to why she wasn't competing and they didn't say. But if she didn't feel up to it, its not worth it. She needs to put herself first.

I do however wonder, if she does drop out would an alternate get to compete? Or is she just taking up a space that someone else could have. 

Anyhow, Silver isn't a bad thing. Congrats to the team!

[Conotocarious]

12 minutes ago, blueray said:

I somehow was not spoiled at all and watched some of the NBC coverage. I turned it on halfway through though. And was confused on to why she wasn't competing and they didn't say. But if she didn't feel up to it, its not worth it. She needs to put herself first.

I do however wonder, if she does drop out would an alternate get to compete? Or is she just taking up a space that someone else could have. 

Anyhow, Silver isn't a bad thing. Congrats to the team!

Yes, Jade will compete AA in her place.

[Chit Chat]

8 hours ago, aradia22 said:

People need to CALM DOWN sometimes. Especially in the media. 

IMO, it's mostly the media, and they've always been that way.  It HAS to be a gold medal or it doesn't matter (their opinion.)   The media is annoying in that regard.  

5 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Simone has officially withdrawn from the AA.

To be fair, I think that once one bows out of the team competition, then you'd automatically be disqualified from the individual competition.  I feel bad for Simone and have sympathy for whatever issues she's having, but when you're done, you're done.   

 

[Enero]

54 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Honestly I wonder if the Games being a year off and the whole Covid protocols is throwing people off.    Not just in gymnastics which seems to have a lot of really good athletes having really off days all at the same time, but in other sports too based on what I am hearing.  

I definitely think this is playing a bigger part than most like to admit or understand. Though Olympic athletes train hard all the time my understanding is training leading up to an Olympic year can be a whole other beast, physically and mentally. These athletes were prepared to compete in 2020. Then COVID happened and the Games got postponed, which essentially added another year of training for the Olympics. It had to have taken its toll, more on some, I’m sure, than others. The IOC probably should’ve just scrapped these Games, but we know money is at the root of the decision to push on. 

Regarding Simone, though I was looking forward to seeing her compete in the AA I’m glad she withdrew. If her head wasn’t in the game so much so that she had to withdraw from the Team event, I doubt she’d been able to mentally get herself together in a couple of days. Hopefully she gets some rest and the mental support she needs. I wonder if they have someone in Tokyo who can provide professional mental support for athletes or will they have to wait until they return home to get professional help?

Edited July 28, 2021 by Enero

[Chit Chat]

31 minutes ago, Enero said:

If her head wasn’t in the game so much so that she had to withdraw from the Team event, I doubt she’d been able to mentally get herself together in a couple of days.

What is so surprising to most is that she seemed to be in good spirits during practice and in  the qualifying rounds (at least the few that I saw.  I've only seen a snippet here and there on YouTube).  She had a few stumbles/bobbles, but I figured it was just her working through the nerves and the new surroundings.  I wonder if this shook her confidence.  Wasn't she overheard saying to her teammate that she didn't trust herself, or something to that effect?  Maybe each small misstep leading up to yesterday took it's toll on her.  I hate to see that happen to anybody.  

I wish the other ladies good luck in the AA's.  

Edited July 28, 2021 by ChitChat

[Lady Whistleup]

This men's AA is a nailbiter. 0.4 between the top 3, 4 rotations in.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[BrindaWalsh]

AA selection is only based on performance in the qualifying round.  I remember this being a big point of discussion when Aly beat Jordan, everybody kept hammering home that unless Aly or Gabby dropped out or were pulled for "injury", there was no way to get Jordan in there even though she placed easily in the top 8 because of the 2 gymnast rule.  The team final doesn't impact who goes to AA at all. 

[Evie]

9 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

What is so surprising to most is that she seemed to be in good spirits in the qualifying rounds (at least the few that I saw.  I've only seen a snippet here and there on YouTube).  She had a few stumbles/bobbles, but I figured it was just her working through the nerves and the new surroundings.  I wonder if this shook her confidence.  Wasn't she overheard saying to her teammate that she didn't trust herself, or something to that effect?  Maybe each small misstep leading up to yesterday took it's toll on her.  I hate to see that happen to anybody.  

I wish the other ladies good luck in the AA's.  

I think it probably did shake her confidence and then the media reacted like she cost the team ... something. I'm not sure what since it was qualifying and the scores started over on Tuesday. The pressure had to be enormous.

[skipnjump]

9 hours ago, tanyak said:

We still have cable mainly because we watch so many sports year around, and cable is just easiest. Just turn on the TV and there it is. this weekend, NBC have a Lotta stuff this afternoon. Now it was recorded, but there is still a lot of stuff to watch: swimming heats, triathlon, cycling, etc. It was a lot of random stuff. I just turned the TV on and had it on as background noise, occasionally popping my head in to see what was happening. Again, it was just easy. But I do know that a lot of people who have cut the cord are having a really hard time finding coverage to watch. I have both Peacock and the NBC sports app, and they are both horrible. 

I'm with you.  I like having one program to access my channels and I've been having the Olympics on every night.  I love watching all of the different sports.  Not as much of a fan of boxing though.  I was a former track runner, so I know I will be tuning in for the track and field.

[Chit Chat]

7 minutes ago, Evie said:

I think it probably did shake her confidence and then the media reacted like she cost the team ... something. I'm not sure what since it was qualifying and the scores started over on Tuesday.

Didn't she quit on the first day of team competition?  She did the vault and then was done.  I thought the qualifying round was over.  

[Enero]

Sun Wei was great on the parallel bars. But looks like his wrist may be bothering him. The parallel bars always look like it hurts like hell, especially when they flip and catch themselves on the bars with their underarms.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Enero

[Lady Whistleup]

1 minute ago, ChitChat said:

Didn't she quit on the first day of team competition?  She did the vault and then was done.  I thought the qualifying round was over.  

That was the second day. Quals was first day.

[Jess14]

20 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

What is so surprising to most is that she seemed to be in good spirits in the qualifying rounds (at least the few that I saw.  I've only seen a snippet here and there on YouTube).  She had a few stumbles/bobbles, but I figured it was just her working through the nerves and the new surroundings.  I wonder if this shook her confidence.  Wasn't she overheard saying to her teammate that she didn't trust herself, or something to that effect?  Maybe each small misstep leading up to yesterday took it's toll on her.  I hate to see that happen to anybody.  

I wish the other ladies good luck in the AA's.  

That’s certainly possible, but if I had to guess, I would think that the issues have been going on for a while. Although I thought that Simone would be her usual amazing self on the competition floor at the Olympics, I actually think that she looked a bit off at trials too. Also, her teammates seemed to imply that she had been having issues in the training gym. I think that’s why they didn’t seem as shocked as they  otherwise might have when she pulled out of her final events. I think the pressure just built and built and built, and then the covid year and families not being allowed in Tokyo probably exacerbated it.

I also think the lack of a real training gym may impede her ability to compete again at the games. If she’s unsure of herself, she really needs to be able to throw some vaults and floor passes into a pit, not just a soft mat. I assume they don’t have access to that in the regular Olympic training gym(s).

[Jeddah]

32 minutes ago, Enero said:

I wonder if they have someone in Tokyo who can provide professional mental support for athletes or will they have to wait until they return home to get professional help?

I thought one of the most profound parts of “Weight of Gold” was when Gracie Gold said if she had hurt her knee US Figure Skating would have made sure she had the best knee surgeon in the country, but when she was depressed they just told her maybe she should go find her own therapist. I hope things are changing.

[Enero]

This men's event is a nail bitter. 

Tong was awesome on the bar! Wow!

20 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I thought one of the most profound parts of “Weight of Gold” was when Gracie Gold said if she had hurt her knee US Figure Skating would have made sure she had the best knee surgeon in the country, but when she was depressed they just told her maybe she should go find her own therapist. I hope things are changing.

Yep. I remember this. I hope things are changing, but honestly I doubt it. It there is change it's likely at a snails pace. Weight of Gold was an insightful documentary. Just how much these athletes go through was eye opening. What I thought was most interesting about that documentary was the mental struggle these athletes go through when they are no longer experiencing the high of competition and their lives are no longer consumed by the sport. Making the transition to "regular" life sounded like a very difficult experience for them. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Enero

[alexa]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Honestly I wonder if the Games being a year off and the whole Covid protocols is throwing people off.    Not just in gymnastics which seems to have a lot of really good athletes having really off days all at the same time, but in other sports too based on what I am hearing.  

It benefited many athletes to have the extra year.  So I think as with many times for athletes it is just a timing thing on when they can perform their best.  For some it was last year, and some this year was their year.  There have been some amazing competitions so I don’t think as a whole the athletes aren’t doing well.  Grace said the extra year improved her gymnastics and others have stated the same in their disciplines.  

[Lady Whistleup]

Wow another nailbiter of an AA! Congrats to Daiki Hashimoto, Xiao Ruoteng, and Nikita. And Artur's Achilles deserves a medal of his own.

Japanese dominance continues!

[Enero]

Congrats to Hashimoto. That was an awesome bar routine! 

I thought Xiao from China had a great routine as well.  Don't understand how Nikita got a bronze with that sub-par bar routine. I thought Sun Wei should been awarded bronze. Oh well. 

Too bad about the U.S. men. They weren't even in contention. 

Overall great competition. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Enero

[Jeddah]

That was a great competition! Everyone rose to the occasion!

[Conotocarious]

39 minutes ago, Jess14 said:

That’s certainly possible, but if I had to guess, I would think that the issues have been going on for a while. Although I thought that Simone would be her usual amazing self on the competition floor at the Olympics, I actually think that she looked a bit off at trials too. Also, her teammates seemed to imply that she had been having issues in the training gym. I think that’s why they didn’t seem as shocked as they  otherwise might have when she pulled out of her final events. I think the pressure just built and built and built, and then the covid year and families not being allowed in Tokyo probably exacerbated it.

I also think the lack of a real training gym may impede her ability to compete again at the games. If she’s unsure of herself, she really needs to be able to throw some vaults and floor passes into a pit, not just a soft mat. I assume they don’t have access to that in the regular Olympic training gym(s).

I also read that Simone has experienced the Twisties before, including in 2016 before Rio and also in 2019.  Difference being, of course, it was in training and she had time to sort it out, probably because she could use a foam pit in her gym. But without that pit, I agree its going to be difficult to work through it fast. 

Whatever she does, she’ll always have my admiration as one of the most legendary athletes I’ve ever seen.

[Dots And Stripes]

14 minutes ago, alexa said:

It benefited many athletes to have the extra year.  So I think as with many times for athletes it is just a timing thing on when they can perform their best.  For some it was last year, and some this year was their year.  There have been some amazing competitions so I don’t think as a whole the athletes aren’t doing well.  Grace said the extra year improved her gymnastics and others have stated the same in their disciplines.  

The COVID years seems to have hurt more athletes than it helped. Yes, there are some 16 year olds competing who are only eligible because of the delay and Grace and a couple swimmers have said they improved, but I think there are more athletes who were thrown not just by the wait but by the disruption.

Golden covered how gyms were closed which prevented a lot of gymnasts from training for extended periods. International competitions were cancelled, so someone like Jordan couldn't get the feel for competing before international judges before the Olympics. Golden also covered how rough some of the early domestic competitions were with gymnasts saying there were way more falls than they would expect. Tom said a few times that the gymnasts were not where they needed to be for an Olympic year.