Gymnastics

[Lady Whistleup]

I wish people would stop comparing Simone to Artur. This is Artur's first Olys after being crushed that he was just an alternate in Rio. It was his dream and so he made a conscious choice to come back from an injury. His headspace was that if it didn't happen now in Tokyo it was never going to happen, and we should respect his choice even if I (like most other people) cringed at how much pain he must be in. AND he had the luxury of being on an extremely strong team.

Simone's very different -- it was obvious that this Olympic experience was not like Rio. She was feeling pressure, rumors are that she's been hiding some fractured toe injuries, and the team assembled around her frankly was not as strong as Rio.

We should respect Simone's choice just as we would Artur's. Both are adults who made decisions about what was best for them and their goals.

[choclatechip45]

3 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

To be fair though, putting the 7th place athlete on the team is a decision that needs more explanation than putting the 4th place athlete on the team. 

I think USA Gymnastics still needs to clean house (Ali said as much as it has not rooted out all of the abuse enablers) and does need better public communication. That said, I would say be careful what you wish for replacing Tom. My fear is that after today the voices saying it's a choice between gold and rooting out abuse will feel empowered. Tom has said, and I hope he means it, that he doesn't see it as a choice and he wants the program to pursue gold while respecting the health and well being of the athletes. I could definitely see a replacement feeling that a "tougher" style is needed. That would be a step in the wrong direction.

I guess it bothers me because there is a legit reason to bring Grace and Tom just never said it. The reason is because she can be a table setter on all the events while Skinner bars are basically unusable in a team final situation. 

Tom is part of the old guard so I think you can clean house like Aly has said and get rid of Tom he was one of the best bar coaches and was part of the developmental coaching staff under Martha.. I believe. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by choclatechip45

[Minneapple]

35 minutes ago, ctlady said:

Agreed - but this is what comes along with competing in a sport.  There is going to be pressure, anxiety, stress, being overwhelmed, etc.  I feel for her and hope she is okay.  To do this in the middle of the games - especially when it isn't just your own success on the line but that of your teammates who are counting on you is what I'm having trouble digesting.  

Someone earlier on the radio put it like this - if Tom Brady had decided to take himself out of the Superbowl in the 3rd quarter with the game tied or if LeBron James had decided to bench himself in the deciding game 7 due to mental stress - would everyone be as understanding to them as men or would they be told to 'suck it up and stick it out - this is what you signed up for?"

If Brady had the "yips" and couldn't throw a football on a basic out pattern, and took himself out of the game after throwing three consecutive interceptions, no one would really blame him (OK, that's probably a lie; also in basketball they say if you're having a bad shooting day, to "keep shooting"). HOWEVER, there is also the added factor of gymnastics being inherently dangerous. Football is dangerous in that Brady could get a linebacker to the head, but Brady having the yips in and of itself isn't dangerous. Gymnastics is dangerous in that if Simone gets up there on the beam and her head isn't in the right place, she could fall and break her neck. Michael Jordan's "flu game" is practically legendary, but Jordan didn't really put himself in any physical danger when he played through that.

I do agree that this is what the athletes sign up for. For 99 percent of her career, Simone has lived up to the pressure and expectations. She's won medal after medal and meet after meet. She's dealt with the media, with crazy hype, with social media, with racism. She has lived her whole life in the spotlight and she knows the story. So something must be really wrong for her to pull herself out of competition like that.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Minneapple

[kili]

Quote

 I really hope NBC looks at their "journey" approach to the Olympics and lays off the star athletes for 2024, but I know better.

Are we asking NBC to ignore the gold medal prospects and focus on the athletes unlikely to win? Reduce coverage of gymnastics to make room in prime time for other sports? Don't race to interview the gold medalist of the 100m, but instead interview the guy who finished middle of the pack in race walking?

It could work. I think a lot of people embrace the Olympics because they get to watch things they don't traditionally follow. If they cover the "journey" of a badminton player, teach us what makes a good badminton player and cover their performances in prime time, the viewers will care about them. I come from a country where the Olympics are popular and for many decades, we only won a couple (or one) medals.  We tuned in to watch the interview of that middle of the pack race walker and cheered for them reaching a personal best.

It means and adjustment for the viewers and its something we should start signalling by upping the ratings and clicks on those stories that are getting ignored in the race to cover likely winners (in advance) and winners (after).

NBC just wants to make money, not destroy the minds of competitors. We the viewers decide what makes them money and can use our influence to get the coverage we want.

[Sarahsmile416]

4 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

If Brady had the "yips" and couldn't throw a football on a basic out pattern, and took himself out of the game after throwing three consecutive interceptions, no one would really blame him. HOWEVER, there is also the added factor of gymnastics being inherently dangerous. Football is dangerous in that Brady could get a linebacker to the head, but Brady having the yips in and of itself isn't dangerous. Gymnastics is dangerous in that if Simone gets up there on the beam and her head isn't in the right place, she could fall and break her neck. Michael Jordan's "flu game" is practically legendary, but Jordan didn't really put himself in any physical danger when he played through that.

I do agree that this is what the athletes sign up for. For 99 percent of her career, Simone has lived up to the pressure and expectations. She's won medal after medal and meet after meet. She's dealt with the media, with crazy hype, with social media, with racism. She has lived her whole life in the spotlight and she knows the story. So something must be really wrong for her to pull herself out of competition like that.

I don’t think you can discount her own personal trauma.  That is something that is an ongoing thing - one you need to continue working on.  I think this has a great deal to do with everything.  She knew with the Olympics it was going to be a big story - who knows how much that has to do with her pulling herself.   Her reiterating her need for the Olympics being about HER and her journey seems to support this.   

Edited July 27, 2021 by Sarahsmile416

[huggybear]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

There's thousands of athletes competing without their families in attendance. They're still getting the job done. 

But none that are scrutinized to the degree that Simone has been dealing with. NBC won't let her breathe without a camera on her. 

[dovegrey]

1 minute ago, Minneapple said:

If Brady had the "yips" and couldn't throw a football on a basic out pattern, and took himself out of the game after throwing three consecutive interceptions, no one would really blame him. HOWEVER, there is also the added factor of gymnastics being inherently dangerous. Football is dangerous in that Brady could get a linebacker to the head, but Brady having the yips in and of itself isn't dangerous. Gymnastics is dangerous in that if Simone gets up there on the beam and her head isn't in the right place, she could fall and break her neck. Michael Jordan's "flu game" is practically legendary, but Jordan didn't really put himself in any physical danger when he played through that.

I do agree that this is what the athletes sign up for. For 99 percent of her career, Simone has lived up to the pressure and expectations. She's won medal after medal and meet after meet. She's dealt with the media, with crazy hype, with social media, with racism. She has lived her whole life in the spotlight and she knows the story. So something must be really wrong for her to pull herself out of competition like that.

Well said.

I saw an article where Simone said she started shaking about 5 hours before the meet this morning (https://www.npr.org/sections/tokyo-olympics-live-updates/2021/07/27/1021090180/u-s-womens-gymnastics-team-gold-final-simone-biles-sunisa-lee). It sounds to me like she tried to push through the anxiety/nerves/panic; had that disastrous vault, where she was completely out of her headspace; and realized she was going to tank the team. Her backing out gave the team the chance to medal, and they did. If she stayed in and kept getting 12's and 13's - at best - they wouldn't have medaled. And/or she would have been seriously hurt.

She did the right thing.

[Steph619]

I think it takes an incredible amount of courage to do what Simone did especially at such an important event like the Olympics. I feel like gymnasts are often pushed to their limits, both physically and mentally, but the expectation is always for them to carry on no matter what even if it’s at the expense of their own well-being.

I’m disappointed that the US team didn’t win gold because I’ve seen how hard they’ve worked over the years, but winning silver is nothing to scoff at. It’s a huge achievement. Grace, Jordan, and Suni stepped up and showed the rest of the world that they’re stars in their own right, not just understudies or a supporting cast to Simone. Yes, mistakes were made, but overall, they did a great job.

Besides the balance beam, the Russian team was superior and deserved the win.

I’m looking forward to the individual events. I’m excited to see more of Jade and Suni. I’m also curious to see if Simone will compete any further, but no matter what Simone decides to do, I just hope she’s ok and still feels proud of all that she has accomplished in gymnastics.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Steph619

[Lady Whistleup]

Here's an interesting interview with Artur:

Quote

Dalaloyan hopes the injury will teach him to listen to his body better:

“Of course, I feel some guilt now that I didn’t pay enough attention. Such injuries don’t happen suddenly. I guess I need to listen to my body more – what it needs, what it lacks. You can always see this but we just ignore some signals or pretend to ignore them. This also gives me experience – not everything can happen on its own, I need to keep things under control.”

And:

Quote

Most of the pandemic, the Russian team spent at the training center and they were not allowed to leave on weekends like they used to in the pre-pandemic times. Dalaloyan, who has three kids, found the separation from his family incredibly hard:

“It was hard to stay at the training center non-stop and not be with our families. Honestly, I’ve been building this for a long time – to be able to combine personal life and the sport. It’s hard but at some point I was able to do it – to work during the day, come home, give kids their baths, take on some chores, so that my wife wouldn’t have to do all of it alone. It was great for me. This can’t be compared to mindless lying down in your room [at the training center], when you came back from practice and stare at your phone or the ceiling. That was degrading for me. But [being with family] was life. That’s why I had the energy.”

“When the pandemic started and the training center went on lockdown, it made me mentally weaker. What I spent a long time building was taken from me. I ended up in a cage – keep working, here’s your soup, here’s your buckwheat, here’s your gym, here’s your bed. It’s beneficial for some, it allows them to recover, but it’s the opposite for others. It depresses me.”

He sounds like a lovely young man and I'm so happy he got to fulfill his dream.

But it does sound like the pandemic was incredibly hard for athletes, who thrive so much on structure and routine.

[Dots And Stripes]

I don't think NBC's mistake was focusing on Simone. I think the way they talked about her did a disservice. The inevitability stuff was always unreasonable. Of course the best athlete can lose! Streaks can be broken! There is a difference between watching to see what happens and promise a result. Networks never promised Tom Brady would win a Super Bowl (and when he lost, the new season was always a few months away).

 

[choclatechip45]

Just now, Dots And Stripes said:

I don't think NBC's mistake was focusing on Simone. I think the way they talked about her did a disservice. The inevitability stuff was always unreasonable. Of course the best athlete can lose! Streaks can be broken! There is a difference between watching to see what happens and promise a result. Networks never promised Tom Brady would win a Super Bowl (and when he lost, the new season was always a few months away).

 

Yes it reminds me of when NBC was acting in the lead up to the 2016 Olympics that Gabby had a legit shot beating Simone in the AA in Rio. 

Honestly, I am really glad that Suni, Grace and Jordan look thrilled winning at the Silver. I don't see the disappointment of prior teams that didn't win gold.  

[Lady Whistleup]

2 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I don't think NBC's mistake was focusing on Simone. I think the way they talked about her did a disservice. The inevitability stuff was always unreasonable. Of course the best athlete can lose! Streaks can be broken! There is a difference between watching to see what happens and promise a result. Networks never promised Tom Brady would win a Super Bowl (and when he lost, the new season was always a few months away).

 

Same thing with Katie Ledecky. They act like because she's never lost an Olympic race, she never will lose an Olympic race. That's not the way life works. Ledecky's silver shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone following the 400 M free field.

[Dr.OO7]

16 minutes ago, kili said:

I think a lot of people embrace the Olympics because they get to watch things they don't traditionally follow

That's why NBC uses its other networks as well as the afternoons and late nights to broadcast every second of the games.

It's funny how that Triplecast idea from 1992 was such a disaster, but that's essentially what they've been doing ever since.

[Sarahsmile416]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Same thing with Katie Ledecky. They act like because she's never lost an Olympic race, she never will lose an Olympic race. That's not the way life works. Ledecky's silver shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone following the 400 M free field.

The media focuses so much on the records that they forget the human beings that are creating them.  The world will continue spinning if they don’t get those records and they will be fine

[Dots And Stripes]

Just now, Lady Whistleup said:

Same thing with Katie Ledecky. They act like because she's never lost an Olympic race, she never will lose an Olympic race. That's not the way life works. Ledecky's silver shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone following the 400 M free field.

On that one Rowdy did call Titmus the favorite, although he waffled by the time of the final. They were hyping that one as a great two person race. I would be curious though to hear from Ledecky what she thought of the coverage. She seemed pretty prepared for the outcome and to have a great rapport with her "rival," so maybe she took it all in stride. In general NBC could probably dial it back on Ledecky too.

[Conotocarious]

Even when the athletes meet the crushing expectations, as Phelps did, they often still end up suffering the crushing effects of being mentally unwell after its all over. I just think most people can’t possibly understand the level of pressure. I know Simone was always saying she was competing for herself this time but looking at the circus around these Games I always wondered how that could possibly be how she really felt. 

 

[Jeddah]

39 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

People might be talking about Deng Linlin she was the one who was the recipient of Bela's racist rant about milk teeth. 

Yeah, she wasn’t missing teeth. They just were very crooked. Of course Bela had to be a jerk about it.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I don't think NBC's mistake was focusing on Simone. I think the way they talked about her did a disservice. The inevitability stuff was always unreasonable. Of course the best athlete can lose! Streaks can be broken! There is a difference between watching to see what happens and promise a result. Networks never promised Tom Brady would win a Super Bowl (and when he lost, the new season was always a few months away).

 

I think what bothers me most is the dishonesty of their coverage. They have a chosen narrative and will ignore anything that doesn’t fit that. Someone who watches their coverage will legitimately think that Simone is the only one of made mistakes. It’s one thing to spin your commentary and another entirely to just not show parts of the competition that don’t fit the spin.
 

 

46 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

Well said.

I saw an article where Simone said she started shaking about 5 hours before the meet this morning (https://www.npr.org/sections/tokyo-olympics-live-updates/2021/07/27/1021090180/u-s-womens-gymnastics-team-gold-final-simone-biles-sunisa-lee). It sounds to me like she tried to push through the anxiety/nerves/panic; had that disastrous vault, where she was completely out of her headspace; and realized she was going to tank the team. Her backing out gave the team the chance to medal, and they did. If she stayed in and kept getting 12's and 13's - at best - they wouldn't have medaled. And/or she would have been seriously hurt.

She did the right thing.

That really makes me wonder if she was suffering from some degree of PTSD. The last time she was at an Olympics it was with Karolyi and before she had come to terms with what happened. Being back in that environment for the first time could be very triggering even once someone thinks they have a handle on it. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Guest
Edited to correct wrong information.

[choclatechip45]

Just now, Dani said:

I think what bothers me most is the dishonesty of their coverage. They have a chosen narrative and will ignore anything that doesn’t fit that. Someone who watches their coverage will legitimately think that Simone is the only one of made mistakes. It’s one thing to spin your commentary and other entirely to just not show parts of the competition that don’t fit the spin.
 

 

That really makes me wonder if she was suffering from some degree of PTSD. The last time she was at an Olympics it was with Karolyi and Nassar. Being back in that environment for the first time could be very triggering even once someone things they have a handle on it. 

Nassar wasn't at the Olympics in 2016 he was fired in 2015. 

[backgroundnoise]

I saw an interview with Simone yesterday(?) where she said that she's not as confident to avoid injury now as she was when younger, or something to that effect.  I forget the exact words, but it definitely showed she doesn't think she can be as mindless about herself as in the past.  I'm phrasing this wrong I'm sure, but whatever she said made me not that surprised with today's news.  Did anyone else see that?  Sorry I can't be more precise on when and where I saw it--I've been jumping around channels alot.

I've admired Simone since she first appeared on the scene, and I think she's showing maturity, intelligence and guts.  

Edited July 27, 2021 by backgroundnoise

[Lady Whistleup]

Guys remember Queen Sveta Boguinskaya?

She made this IG post:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CR17HlPsH10/

Quoted part here:

Quote

What a day in Womens Team Olympic finals… Congratulations team ROC for capturing first ever Team Gold 🥇 since 1992 ( when last time we competed as Unified team in 1992 Barcelona games). Incredible achievements and historic moment! Team USA taking silver is an honor for team who fought hard to the very end! Great Britain taking bronze is absolutely incredible! Now let’s talk about mental health and mental blocks. I have been in the same situation many times when tremendous pressure is on top of you , when everyone relying on you and you are the one and only person who delivers time after time, after time… Person who is NOT a robot, person with incredible difficultly and on top of everything else doing gymnastics with smile on her face. In gymnastics mental blocks are common, i had several of them trough my carrier and i will tell you it’s no joke, no play, it’s reality when your brain shots down however physically you should be able to perform. Mental blocks are sudden and unexplainable and you are at lost because just second a go you didn’t have them. I can go on and on and on about it but at this point i want to let Simone know we all thinking of her, wishing we can watch greatest athlete of all times competing again but for now lets take a break , re charge and wait what next day brings 🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻 xoxo SB 

 

[merylinkid]

3 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Simone Biles doesn't have to prove anything to anyone, and I'm glad she and her coaches were able to recognize that a medal is not worth her life, her mental health or a serious injury. She gave FIVE Olympic golds to US. FIVE. She made people turn on the TV, sponsors cash in. She made tons of young girls think 'I want to do it, I can do it'. All power to her.

It's not just that.   She has her own gym where she has PROVEN you don't have to be a tyrant and berate the athletes to get a good result.   She supports others in her sport, especially gymnists of color (GOC???).   She has transformed the sport.   That why I said earlier that if this is her last Olympics, I hope she goes into coaching.   After the Karolyis and Nassar, she is what is needed.

[Sarahsmile416]

4 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Guys remember Queen Sveta Boguinskaya?

She made this IG post:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CR17HlPsH10/

Quoted part here:

 

Love this! So beautifully said.  For every asshole like Skinner’s husband, there is a post like this.  ❤️❤️

[Ceindreadh]

3 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Simone Biles doesn't have to prove anything to anyone, and I'm glad she and her coaches were able to recognize that a medal is not worth her life, her mental health or a serious injury. She gave FIVE Olympic golds to US. FIVE. She made people turn on the TV, sponsors cash in. She made tons of young girls think 'I want to do it, I can do it'. All power to her.

 

She got FOUR Olympic golds, FOUR (which is of course still an achievement in itself).  Team, All Around, Vault, Floor.  She didn't qualify for Uneven Bars in Rio and she got Bronze on the beam.

Random thought, with all the commentary about how this was the first Russian team gold since the Unified Soviet team took gold 29 years ago in Barcelona.  How cool is it that a member of that gold medal winning team was still competing in this Olympics as well.  (the wonderful Oksana Chusovitina)

 

[Harry24]

2 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

Somewhat Russia had improved a lot since 2019 Worlds. This wasn't Rio were the US came in with start value advantage and they were acting like it was. 

I was wondering about that during the prelims.  I just assumed from the announcers proclaiming the US dominance that we would be seeing the same superiority in difficulty scores.  So then it was a shock when the ROC was superior in difficulty on both floor and, stunner of stunner, on vault!  Didn’t anyone notice that three of the team members did Y2s and only Simone was doing an Amanar or Chung?  This team was far more dependent on Simone’s dominance than the previous two Olympic teams.  IIRC, for instance, in London three of the four US athletes were doing Amanars, and the US just shut down the competition from that point on.  Similar storyline in Rio.

23 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Love this! So beautifully said.  For every asshole like Skinner’s husband, there is a post like this.  ❤️❤️

This is AMAZING.  Way to go, Lovely Svetlana.  (Fantastic English too!)

[irisheyes]

2 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

This is an amazing article ESPN did on Suni https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31849287/us-gymnastics-star-sunisa-lee-long-winding-journey-olympics-2021. 

I love Suni so glad people are noticing her more! I hope she wins an AA medal. 

I had no idea she and her dad were not biologically related. They were the family I  loved watching the most on “Golden”. They just seemed so loving. Definitely going to watch some NCAA gymnastics next year with Suni at Auburn. (And she can make some money off of her name and image now too!)

[Jess14]

1 hour ago, ctlady said:

Agreed - but this is what comes along with competing in a sport.  There is going to be pressure, anxiety, stress, being overwhelmed, etc.  I feel for her and hope she is okay.  To do this in the middle of the games - especially when it isn't just your own success on the line but that of your teammates who are counting on you is what I'm having trouble digesting.  

Someone earlier on the radio put it like this - if Tom Brady had decided to take himself out of the Superbowl in the 3rd quarter with the game tied or if LeBron James had decided to bench himself in the deciding game 7 due to mental stress - would everyone be as understanding to them as men or would they be told to 'suck it up and stick it out - this is what you signed up for?"

I think that there absolutely would be a different reaction if Lebron or Brady pulled themselves out of a championship game citing mental health, but that’s a bad thing, IMO, not a reason to treat Simone like crap. Dangerous aspects of gymnastics aside, mental health is a real thing, and people need to stop acting like it’s only ok for someone to take themselves out when they’re physically injured. That goes for male athletes too.

And I doubt we’re about to see a rash of top athletes pulling out of major events. While pressure is something every athlete has to conquer, this was obviously beyond that. Simone has pulled it together and excelled under pressure for years. Clearly, something was seriously, seriously wrong, or she would’ve continued. We have to respect that.

2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I also hope it doesn't get lost in the narrative that the US even with Simone was 2nd after quals. So the signs were there that they were beatable, Simone or no Simone. 

Yes! Frankly, I thought this was obvious before they got to Tokyo. I used to consume elite gymnastics, but the Nassar scandal turned me off, and I’ve grown to enjoy collegiate gymnastics more. So, I’m not as familiar with this group, and I thought I was just missing something with the COP, etc, when I watched trials and thought that the team seemed strong, but not out of this world spectacular, like the media made it seem. The 2012 and 2016 teams were both stronger (I mean, the 2012 team had an amanar that they did not even need to use in team finals!), IMO. This team seemed almost entirely reliant on Simone and Suni’s bars. This isn’t a criticism of them. They were still great and a silver is nothing to be ashamed of, but the media never should’ve pretended like they were untouchable.

1 hour ago, Dani said:

I think the Korean gymnast who regrew a missing tooth is being confused with Deng Linlin. In 2008 there was a lot of talk about her being underage because of a missing tooth. I’m pretty sure she just had an impacted tooth that was later fixed. Unless she was missing a baby tooth for 4 years since she had the same smile in 2012.

Some of the attacks on the Chinese team were absolutely racist. However, the age accusations did not arise bc of their appearances. I remember following gym boards back then, and there was talk (way before the Olympics rolled around and the media got wind of the story) about paperwork showing that their birth years were recorded differently than the birth year that they used when they became useful to the team, and people very familiar Chinese system and team who basically said that they would “age” them if needed. This was particularly obvious with He Kexin, who came on to the scene very late. 

Personally, I think He Kexin’s bar set belonged at the Olympics. Her 2008 bar set is one of the greatest gymnastics routines in history, but it’s still cheating. Plenty of gymnasts have missed out and haven’t been the same once the Olympics that they were eligible for rolled around (Rebecca Bross is a good example of someone who just missed the cut in 2008, but was too injured by the time 2012 rolled around). Hell, He Kexin, while still great, did not swing bars the same in 2012 as in 2008. 

Interesting that people like Bridget Sloan’s commentary. She commentates collegiate gymnastics, and I’ve always thought the consensus was that she’s awful lol.

[choclatechip45]

39 minutes ago, Harry24 said:

I was wondering about that during the prelims.  I just assumed from the announcers proclaiming the US dominance that we would be seeing the same superiority in difficulty scores.  So then it was a shock when the ROC was superior in difficulty on both floor and, stunner of stunner, on vault!  Didn’t anyone notice that three of the team members did Y2s and only Simone was doing an Amanar or Chung?  This team was far more dependent on Simone’s dominance than the previous two Olympic teams.  IIRC, for instance, in London three of the four US athletes were doing Amanars, and the US just shut down the competition from that point on.  Similar storyline in Rio.

This is AMAZING.  Way to go, Lovely Svetlana.  (Fantastic English too!)

Yes in London 4 out of 5 of the team members had amanars. In Rio, only Aly and Simone had Amanars. I think personally us fans and USA Gymnastics got super spoiled with all of the Amanars in London. 

15 minutes ago, Jess14 said:

I think that there absolutely would be a different reaction if Lebron or Brady pulled themselves out of a championship game citing mental health, but that’s a bad thing, IMO, not a reason to treat Simone like crap. Dangerous aspects of gymnastics aside, mental health is a real thing, and people need to stop acting like it’s only ok for someone to take themselves out when they’re physically injured. That goes for male athletes too.

And I doubt we’re about to see a rash of top athletes pulling out of major events. While pressure is something every athlete has to conquer, this was obviously beyond that. Simone has pulled it together and excelled under pressure for years. Clearly, something was seriously, seriously wrong, or she would’ve continued. We have to respect that.

Yes! Frankly, I thought this was obvious before they got to Tokyo. I used to consume elite gymnastics, but the Nassar scandal turned me off, and I’ve grown to enjoy collegiate gymnastics more. So, I’m not as familiar with this group, and I thought I was just missing something with the COP, etc, when I watched trials and thought that the team seemed strong, but not out of this world spectacular, like the media made it seem. The 2012 and 2016 teams were both stronger (I mean, the 2012 team had an amanar that they did not even need to use in team finals!), IMO. This team seemed almost entirely reliant on Simone and Suni’s bars. This isn’t a criticism of them. They were still great and a silver is nothing to be ashamed of, but the media never should’ve pretended like they were untouchable.

Some of the attacks on the Chinese team were absolutely racist. However, the age accusations did not arise bc of their appearances. I remember following gym boards back then, and there was talk (way before the Olympics rolled around and the media got wind of the story) about paperwork showing that their birth years were recorded differently than the birth year that they used when they became useful to the team, and people very familiar Chinese system and team who basically said that they would “age” them if needed. This was particularly obvious with He Kexin, who came on to the scene very late. 

Personally, I think He Kexin’s bar set belonged at the Olympics. Her 2008 bar set is one of the greatest gymnastics routines in history, but it’s still cheating. Plenty of gymnasts have missed out and haven’t been the same once the Olympics that they were eligible for rolled around (Rebecca Bross is a good example of someone who just missed the cut in 2008, but was too injured by the time 2012 rolled around). Hell, He Kexin, while still great, did not swing bars the same in 2012 as in 2008. 

Interesting that people like Bridget Sloan’s commentary. She commentates collegiate gymnastics, and I’ve always thought the consensus was that she’s awful lol.

I remember that to about the gymnasts ages. That was how I first found out about it months before the Olympics on some gym board posting the inaccuracies of paper work submitted. 

Bridget has improved a lot. I thought she was unlistenable during the NCAA season.

Edited July 27, 2021 by choclatechip45

[Lady Whistleup]

The US actually could have had THREE Amanar/Cheng vaulters if they had picked Simone/Mykayla/Jade. Having those points to rack up would have been clutch. All of them are fairly consistent. Myk's Cheng may not be pretty but it's consistent and thats a 6.0 SV.

It was team construction that Jade and Mykayla were left off the main team. 

[ShellsandCheese]

1 hour ago, Steph619 said:

Besides the balance beam, the Russian team was superior and deserved the win.

And this is getting lost in all the talk about team USA losing gold. Nothing is ever a guarantee. Nothing. Just ask the Russians. They were favored to win Gold in 1996, 2000, and 2004 and it didn’t happen. By 2012 they were elated to get a Bronze. Fortunes change all of the time in gymnastics and Americans seem to have forgotten that because the US had been very good and pretty dominant from 2010-2020. It’s nice to see competition, and I for one welcome it. Now I do need the Russians to get it together on beam; they used to be so good on it. Can’t believe they had two falls. Nuts. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[isalicat]

5 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

But prejudice against Chinese people seems to be super-acceptable since the pandemic and as an AAPI it infuriates me. I see it all over Twitter too.

Seriously, I don't think this is prejudice against Chinese people at all, but understandable prejudice against China, the country (and unfortunately by default, the athletes that are representing that country). I'm sure you know its about a lot more than "just" the pandemic, although there is that too.

[selkie]

4 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

In 2008, wasn't there a lot of controversy re: the ages of the Chinese female gymnasts? 

And the memory of sports fans are long when it comes to federation misbehavior. China's figure skaters are generally well-liked, their divers are well-respected (the complaint is that they're often so perfect no one else has a chance) but in other areas like gymnastics and swimming ,there have been issues and there's not a ton of confidence that said issues were ever fully resolved. 

 

1 hour ago, Dots And Stripes said:

On that one Rowdy did call Titmus the favorite, although he waffled by the time of the final. They were hyping that one as a great two person race. I would be curious though to hear from Ledecky what she thought of the coverage. She seemed pretty prepared for the outcome and to have a great rapport with her "rival," so maybe she took it all in stride. In general NBC could probably dial it back on Ledecky too.

There are no slackers in the distance land and every man or woman who makes an Olympic final in that kind event knows what kind of work every other athlete in the final put in to get there. So the default setting is typically 'extreme respect' and it takes a Sun Yang type (ie-anger management and doping issues) to drop below that default setting. 

[AuntieDiane6]

5 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

I think that there absolutely would be a different reaction if Lebron or Brady pulled themselves out of a championship game citing mental health, but that’s a bad thing, IMO, not a reason to treat Simone like crap.

Hey, there was a Buffalo Bills player who retired RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME.  He was mocked mercilessly by the other players and the media and was never heard from again. 

[Jess14]

9 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

The US actually could have had THREE Amanar/Cheng vaulters if they had picked Simone/Mykayla/Jade. Having those points to rack up would have been clutch. All of them are fairly consistent. Myk's Cheng may not be pretty but it's consistent and thats a 6.0 SV.

It was team construction that Jade and Mykayla were left off the main team. 

Yeah, that’s exactly of what I mean. While Jade and McKayla had strong vaults, the actual 4-person team had the weakest vaulting difficulty of a US team since 2004; yet, they were talked about like they couldn’t lose. Now, part of it is that the COP has brought the vault SVs back down to earth, so there’s not as big of a difference between the amanar and DTY, as there was back when the US was the basically the “United States of Amanar” with Gabby, Maroney, Wieber, Raisman, Ross (a few times), Price, etc. all throwing them. But vault is just one example. In general, outside of Simone and Suni on bars, the team didn’t seem as strong as the past 2 teams (which were optimized for 3 up, 3 count) and a lot of that was due to team construction.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Jess14 said:

Some of the attacks on the Chinese team were absolutely racist. However, the age accusations did not arise bc of their appearances. I remember following gym boards back then, and there was talk (way before the Olympics rolled around and the media got wind of the story) about paperwork showing that their birth years were recorded differently than the birth year that they used when they became useful to the team, and people very familiar Chinese system and team who basically said that they would “age” them if needed. This was particularly obvious with He Kexin, who came on to the scene very late. 

Yes but that wasn’t what I was talking about. One Chinese gymnast apparently missing a tooth was brought up as evidence they were underage. Some of them were absolutely underage but they tooth had nothing to do with it. 

14 minutes ago, isalicat said:

Seriously, I don't think this is prejudice against Chinese people at all, but understandable prejudice against China, the country (and unfortunately by default, the athletes that are representing that country). I'm sure you know its about a lot more than "just" the pandemic, although there is that too.

There is plenty of prejudice against the Chinese people involved. Racists love to latch on to legitimate issues to make their prejudice seem more reasonable. 

[Lady Whistleup]

I just found this video of Simone at Trials:

Seriously, all the warning signs were there: the sudden, uncharacteristic mistakes, the comment that "I'm in so much pain," the tears and miserable face. And Tim and Nastia prattling away about how "don't worry, she'll still be in Tokyo." Jesus. 

[AuntieDiane6]

1 hour ago, huggybear said:

But none that are scrutinized to the degree that Simone has been dealing with. NBC won't let her breathe without a camera on her. 

The comparisons with Harry and Meghan are becoming obvious.  On the one hand, media can be intrusive.  On the other hand, if you and your parents are underwriting a national gymnastics tour you WANT the publicity that will bring in the people to fill the seats.  

On another note about NBC coverage, I once was part of a national survey conducted by the network about Olympic coverage.  They asked what I wanted to see and WHO I wanted to see.  Later, the executives did an interview with a publication devoted to the media as a "business" and they said that Americans didn't care about "Little Leonid from Vladivostok" Up Close and Personal features any more, they wanted to see AMERICANS winning medals.  So that started the whole Let's-Just-Focus-On-Five-Sure-Winneres approach. 

 

[choclatechip45]

2 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

The comparisons with Harry and Meghan are becoming obvious.  On the one hand, media can be intrusive.  On the other hand, if you and your parents are underwriting a national gymnastics tour you WANT the publicity that will bring in the people to fill the seats.  

On another note about NBC coverage, I once was part of a national survey conducted by the network about Olympic coverage.  They asked what I wanted to see and WHO I wanted to see.  Later, the executives did an interview with a publication devoted to the media as a "business" and they said that Americans didn't care about "Little Leonid from Vladivostok" Up Close and Personal features any more, they wanted to see AMERICANS winning medals.  So that started the whole Let's-Just-Focus-On-Five-Sure-Winneres approach. 

 

Athleta is underwriting the costs of the tour not her parents.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

The comparisons with Harry and Meghan are becoming obvious.

It’s really not. 

 

2 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

On the one hand, media can be intrusive.  On the other hand, if you and your parents are underwriting a national gymnastics tour you WANT the publicity that will bring in the people to fill the seats.  

Are Simone and her parents paying for the tour? Otherwise they are underwriting nothing. 

[kittykat]

The only kind thing I'll say about Marta was that the 2016 team was perfectly constructed.  You had four AA gymnasts who each had a different strength (Simone-vault, Gabby-bars, Laurie-beam, Aly-floor) and knowing that the Russians, who are beasts on bars, would be the main threat, enter bars specialist Madison.  

While this team did a commendable job, I feel like the distribution of skill sets was off and there was an over reliance on Simone to bump scores but that's not on the other girls.  I'm so proud of them for stepping up and wishing Simone better health.

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

 

But it does sound like the pandemic was incredibly hard for athletes, who thrive so much on structure and routine.

In my corner of the worl we have, like everybody else, former Olympians commenting, and one of of them, who was still competing last year said something like that: "We never had more than 10 days off year, but during the pandemic we had three months off, and when we came back it is was not that bad, it was ok. We got back in shape in a couple of weeks. So why so much terror? So much pressure?"

[DawnDavenport]

8 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I just found this video of Simone at Trials:

Seriously, all the warning signs were there: the sudden, uncharacteristic mistakes, the comment that "I'm in so much pain," the tears and miserable face. And Tim and Nastia prattling away about how "don't worry, she'll still be in Tokyo." Jesus. 

Yep. Lots of warning signs on the second night of trials. She also kind of melted down after her bars fall. I've had an uneasy feeling since then.

I have a hunch she might completely withdraw from the competition. I think even if she continues and wins, people are going to criticize her decision in the team competition and it's going to get ugly for her.  

It's as if she's really over the whole thing and just wants to quit. I think the last year has really taken a toll on her.

[kittykat]

I'm conflicted.  I'd love to see her bounce back at AA and win but will understand if she withdraws.  The only silver lining would be that Jade would be given a chance.

[galaxygirl76]

If Simone withdraws from the AA is her spot going to the third American or, as the Dutch news seems to be thinking, the #25 from qualifying(Lieke Wevers)

[AuntieDiane6]

I think Lieke. The officials want to discourage switch hitters, aka Tatiana/Rosa.  

9 minutes ago, Dani said:

Are Simone and her parents paying for the tour? Otherwise they are underwriting nothing. 

I bet Athleta has riders in its contract about Simone's appearance.  Her parents own a GYM. I would absolutely think they would have a financial interest in the event.  But you all are correct: Athleta is the prime sponsor.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

If Simone withdraws from the AA is her spot going to the third American or, as the Dutch news seems to be thinking, the #25 from qualifying(Lieke Wevers)

Lieke is listed as the first reserve so it should be her. 

[Raachel2008]

1 hour ago, Ceindreadh said:

She got FOUR Olympic golds, FOUR (which is of course still an achievement in itself).  Team, All Around, Vault, Floor.  She didn't qualify for Uneven Bars in Rio and she got Bronze on the beam.

 

 

Ok, four Olympic golds, one bronze - five Olympic medals. She owes nothing to anyone. 

 

[Lady Whistleup]

Her spot would go to Jade Carey.

[Jeddah]

6 minutes ago, Raachel2008 said:

Ok, four Olympic golds, one bronze - five Olympic medals. She owes nothing to anyone. 

 

And a silver from today. She’s got six medals. Tied with Aly Raisman, and one behind Shannon Miller.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Jeddah

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Her spot would go to Jade Carey.

Are you sure? Why do they even list reserve spots if it doesn’t apply in most instances.