Gymnastics

[Chaser]

I wonder how it would have looked if they had put Suni on Vault.

[choclatechip45]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

I wonder how it would have looked if they had put Suni on Vault.

This and without Jordan's fall on floor they might have won.

[Snow Apple]

At least this proves this is not a one woman team and they are not riding on Simone’s coattails. It’s time to give the other girls credit and attention!

[nickp1991]

Team USA just battled so hard after losing Simone and STILL came out 

[Dots And Stripes]

LOL at NBC talking about Simone withdrawing but not saying the team result. They really want people to still tune in tonight.

[pennben]

Will be very interesting to see how quickly folks turn on Simone.  

[irisheyes]

5 minutes ago, pennben said:

Will be very interesting to see how quickly folks turn on Simone.  

In the comments on our local paper, they already have. People are calling her a “whiner” and a “woke social justice athlete.”  🤬🤬

[Conotocarious]

I cannot believe how protective I feel about Simone. She has been shouldering a ridiculous load for years now and she has nothing to prove on top of it. I honestly don’t know how she’s come this far in one piece. I just know that watching her in Rio and here has been night and day in a really sad way. She just isn’t acting like she’s having any fun at all and she looks a bit drawn and worried most of the time. I truly wish her family were there. This whole thing just sucks. It really does.

[Jillibean]

16 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I wonder how it would have looked if they had put Suni on Vault.

Yeah, I think there will be a lot of woulda coulda shouldas here. What if Suni had done vault, what if Jade was the fourth team member and not Grace.

But it works the other way, too. Jordan could have fallen on floor even if they still had Simone. Suni probably wouldn't have gone for the full 6.8 bars routine. And Suni was the strongest on floor and wasn't scheduled to do floor at all. 

I really do think the resilience of those women was incredible. You have to imagine that Jordan was not prepared to do bars and beam and Suni wasn't prepared to do floor, but they rocked those events. Grace got out there right after she found out Simone was out and put together a decent bars run. Laurie pointed out on beam that her feet and ankles were shaking but she pulled through. I hope they can be proud of themselves. It's not like a medal at all was a guarantee.

I can't imagine what it was like for Simone to watch her teammates in what was basically an impossible to win situation. She must have felt so helpless. Laurie's take on what happened in vault is very interesting and also somewhat concerning. I really hope Simone can find what she needs in these games to leave feeling okay.

I feel like once again this somehow shows how much value Aly really gave to that team for two quads, because the mental aspect is SUCH a huge part of this and not only was she herself solid in the team event, but she really helped her teammates feel calm and positive.

7 minutes ago, pennben said:

Will be very interesting to see how quickly folks turn on Simone.  

Hopefully not as quickly as they turned on Gabby for standing at attention during the anthem.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Jillibean

[Sarahsmile416]

As a victim of sexual assault and as someone who suffers from anxiety disorder I cannot imagine what Simone must be feeling.   I can only hope she has good people she can talk to.  
 

So proud of the US women for stepping up and kicking butt! 

[Conotocarious]

2 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

Yeah, I think there will be a lot of woulda coulda shouldas here. What if Suni had done vault, what if Jade was the fourth team member and not Grace.

But it works the other way, too. Jordan could have fallen on floor even if they still had Simone. Suni probably wouldn't have gone for the full 6.8 bars routine. And Suni was the strongest on floor and wasn't scheduled to do floor at all. 

I really do think the resilience of those women was incredible. You have to imagine that Jordan was not prepared to do bars and beam and Suni wasn't prepared to do floor, but they rocked those events. Grace got out there right after she found out Simone was out and put together a decent bars run. Laurie pointed out on beam that her feet and ankles were shaking but she pulled through. I hope they can be proud of themselves. It's not like a medal at all was a guarantee.

I can't imagine what it was like for Simone to watch her teammates in what was basically an impossible to win situation. She must have felt so helpless. Laurie's take on what happened in vault is very interesting and also somewhat concerning. I really hope Simone can find what she needs in these games to leave feeling okay.

I feel like once again this somehow shows how much value Aly really gave to that team for two quads, because the mental aspect is SUCH a huge part of this and not only was she herself solid in the team event, but she really helped her teammates feel calm and positive.

Hopefully not as quickly as they turned on Gabby for standing at attention during the anthem.

What was Laurie’s take? I only watched the apparatus feed so I could avoid commentary.

[Dots And Stripes]

Points to Hoda for showing the whole Team USA love in the arena now.

[Conotocarious]

Just now, Dots And Stripes said:

Points to Hoda for showing the whole Team USA love in the arena now.

Hoda obviously feels protective of these athletes and i am here for that. I love her warmth.

[dovegrey]

4 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

What was Laurie’s take? I only watched the apparatus feed so I could avoid commentary.

That Simone thought she was still in the air and was going into the second twist but was actually landing. She "got lost in the air." No idea how she landed it the way she did.

[Conotocarious]

1 minute ago, dovegrey said:

That Simone thought she was still in the air and was going into the second twist but was actually landing. She "got lost in the air." No idea how she landed it the way she did.

That’s interesting because she has had “the twisties” before which is kind of like the yips. You get lost in the air. She has worked through them before. I agree that IS concerning. When golfers get the yips some have a super hard time ever getting over it.

[Enero]

13 minutes ago, Jillibean said:

Hopefully not as quickly as they turned on Gabby for standing at attention during the anthem.

Speaking of Gabby, I thought I read somewhere that she'd be doing gymnastics commentary at these Games, but have been unable to find anything else on this. I'm thinking someone must've made this up, since she's really not been associated with gymnastics since Rio.

Quote

In the comments on our local paper, they already have. People are calling her a “whiner” and a “woke social justice athlete.”  🤬🤬

Unfortunately, there will always be distractors no matter how reasonable or understandable what has happened may be. I just hope Simone will be okay and doesn't feel that she's let herself or anyone else down (which I'm pretty sure she will feel this way on some level). Hopefully, having these feelings won't cause her further mental anguish. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Enero

[Liamsmom617]

 I've been on Twitter going back and forth with a-holes whose stance is "If she can't handle pressure, she's not a true champion/she's not really the best" BS. 

  Simone did the right thing for her own health, and good for her. Kerri Strug should NEVER have been vaulting on that broken ankle (?foot?) and is held up as a heroine for doing so. (Not taking ANYTHING away from her...just saying she could have caused permanent damage to her body in doing so.) Whether physical OR mental health, if an athlete opts to pull out rather than risk permanent damage, no one should be shaming them. 

  Anyone else on here old enough to remember when Nadia fell off the bars at the 1978 World Championships in Strosberg? I will never forget that jerkoff Jim McKay being so overly dramatic and negative (I remember what he said WORD FOR WORD: "Well, there you have it...the changing of the guard. Nadia Comaneci COMPLETELY FALLING APART on the uneven bars, where she thrilled the world in Montreal!") I cried. OK, I was 10, but Nadia was my girl and I was heartbroken for her b/c of how the media was spinning it. 

   All to say, I hope no one shames Simone for the decision she made, nor the team for "only" winning silver. A silver medal at the freaking Olympic Games is nothing to be ashamed of.

[Dots And Stripes]

5 minutes ago, Liamsmom617 said:

 I've been on Twitter going back and forth with a-holes whose stance is "If she can't handle pressure, she's not a true champion/she's not really the best" BS. 

  Simone did the right thing for her own health, and good for her. Kerri Strug should NEVER have been vaulting on that broken ankle (?foot?) and is held up as a heroine for doing so. (Not taking ANYTHING away from her...just saying she could have caused permanent damage to her body in doing so.) Whether physical OR mental health, if an athlete opts to pull out rather than risk permanent damage, no one should be shaming them. 

Let's not forget the saga of the Russian men yesterday with an athlete competing without letting his Achilles to heal properly after surgery. I worry that when athletes like that are praised for toughness it can send the wrong message about what to expect, but I don't want to shame him either! Figuring out what is right when it comes to competing through injury  (physical or mental) is such a tricky thing.

[Dr.OO7]

6 minutes ago, Liamsmom617 said:

All to say, I hope no one shames Simone for the decision she made, nor the team for "only" winning silver. A silver medal at the freaking Olympic Games is nothing to be ashamed of.

No, it's not, but that Second Place Is For Losers mentality is hard to get rid of. Especially when the person getting the silver or bronze was expected to win the gold.

[Jeddah]

I have to say that If Simone competes in AA or EF I will be so mad.

[Liamsmom617]

7 minutes ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Let's not forget the saga of the Russian men yesterday with an athlete competing without letting his Achilles to heal properly after surgery. I worry that when athletes like that are praised for toughness it can send the wrong message about what to expect, but I don't want to shame him either! Figuring out what is right when it comes to competing through injury  (physical or mental) is such a tricky thing.

I'm SUPER old...there was a Japanese gymnast (male) in '76 who competed on a broken leg. There is a famous clip of him landing his horizontal bar dismount on that leg and then grimacing in agony. 

[pennben]

I will support whatever decision Simone makes as to whether  or not to compete further. She’s earned that. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by pennben

[legaleagle53]

8 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I have to say that If Simone competes in AA or EF I will be so mad.

And why will you be mad?

[Conotocarious]

6 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

I have to say that If Simone competes in AA or EF I will be so mad.

Why? If she was having a mental breakdown she might have cost the team a shot at any medal at all today. Gymnastics is dangerous and she does some of the most dangerous stuff.  When they pull her, its because they fear catastrophic injury, especially as she appeared to get lost in the air on her vault. 

If she’s feeling better she has every right to compete. Maybe knowing she won’t cost her team if she has a bad performance will help her clear her clear her head. Maybe it won’t. NO ONE has any right to judge her for ANYTHING.

[Avaleigh]

17 minutes ago, Enero said:

I just hope Simone will be okay and doesn't feel that she's let herself or anyone else down (which I'm pretty sure she will feel this way on some level). Hopefully, having these feelings won't cause her further mental anguish. 

This is how I feel. This must be the hardest part and what will be most difficult to get over. Feeling like she's let people down. The feeling is kind of like having a parent say they're disappointed in you only it's magnified by millions. On top of that, not having her family be there physically during a time like this has to be tough. I feel like a person has to have a heart of stone to not feel a little sympathy for her. 

I'm very curious if she'll be able to compete in the rest of her events or if this is the end of the road. No way does she want to go out on a note like that but I can understand if she wants to call it a day.

9 minutes ago, Liamsmom617 said:

 I've been on Twitter going back and forth with a-holes whose stance is "If she can't handle pressure, she's not a true champion/she's not really the best" BS. 

As a casual viewer/fan of gymnastics (I only watch the big meets) this has been the most frustrating thing. Not just the comments about her not being a true champion but the people who are gleefully excited that she's not at her best and want to blame her for this situation because she had the colossal nerve to acknowledge her GOAT status. You'd think she'd drowned a puppy or something. Or the assclowns who can somehow stretch this into something political, it's so ridiculous. 

[ShellsandCheese]

Devastated for Simone. Glad the US women still performed strong - I am actually shocked they didn’t manage to still win Gold after the ROC issues on beam. But now that I think about it, those beam falls were about the only two major issues with the ROC team and team USA had other issues.  I hope Simone is okay. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by ShellsandCheese

[tanyak]

50 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

In the comments on our local paper, they already have. People are calling her a “whiner” and a “woke social justice athlete.”  🤬🤬

Is there a script going around? I just saw those terms almost word-for-word in a Washington Post comment. The thing is, Simone has not been particularly outspoken about racial injustice. But a black athlete (or the women's soccer team) fails to live up to some crazy expectation? Time to blame their wokeness! I hate people. 

[galaxygirl76]

3 minutes ago, pennben said:

I will support whatever decision Simone makes as to whether  or not to compete further. She’s earned that. 

She has to do what's best for her, if that's competing great, if that's pulling out of the rest of the events great. As long as it's her choice. I'm sure she feels like she let the team down and that's an awful feeling to have, whether it's a justified feeling or, in her case because she got hurt, not. 

 

I'm sure that Marta would have sent her back out. Like they said in Athlete A, it was not like Kerri Strug wasn't going to do that final vault. 

[Jeddah]

9 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

Why? If she was having a mental breakdown she might have cost the team a shot at any medal at all today. Gymnastics is dangerous and she does some of the most dangerous stuff.  When they pull her, its because they fear catastrophic injury, especially as she appeared to get lost in the air on her vault. 

If she’s feeling better she has every right to compete. Maybe knowing she won’t cost her team if she has a bad performance will help her clear her clear her head. Maybe it won’t. NO ONE has any right to judge her for ANYTHING.

See, I don’t understand how the first and second paragraphs can coexist. It would have been dangerous to do it today, but won’t be in two days? I don’t get that. If the pressure was too much today, it’s going to be a million times worse two days from now. Give Jade her chance.

And no one has any right to judge her for anything? Bad news. This sport is decided by judges.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Jeddah

[AuntieDiane6]

That Japanese gymnast was Shun Fujimoto.  I remember it too!

Simone's injury and/or motivations are all speculation.  As for pressure, there is always pressure at the Olympics.  And folks, it's not always about us.  Kohei Uchimura had a lot of pressure on him too as did the entire Japanese men's team--which also was expected to win gold.  Other countries have their heroes too.

And certainly, MSM was justified in expecting Simone to win multiple medals.  She won the qualifying round EVEN WITH MISTAKES. She was showing off a new vault at home. She sewed a GOAT on her leotard.  If she lacked motivation (not saying she did), she could have announced she would be a specialist and just do vault and floor. Or retire.  If the media DIDN'T promote her with that golden resume, posters would say, "They're not promoting her because she's a Brown girl blah blah blah."  The media can't win with those attitudes.  OVERHYPING = Unfair   UNDERHYPING = Racist.  It is what it is.  

In any case, hope she can return for AA and EF.  We have a silver without her for team.  Let's celebrate. 

 

 

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

And cue the CBS Sports alert - “U.S. gymnastics falls short”

Like I said, fair warning. It will happen. There's actually nothing inaccurate about that headline, though it's super lazy. These gymnasts aren't just at their little gym's participation meet where everyone will clap and get a trophy. They're the best in the world on the biggest stage in the world. They HAVE to deal with incredible pressure, and a huge media presence, and nowadays, crazed idiots on social media. Maybe really what these athletes need is some kind of adviser or someone to talk to, a mental health counselor who can talk them through all of these things.

As an aside, it annoys me greatly that such pressure is put on the US women...and nobody even cares that the US men NEVER medal. Maybe the key is to have low expectations.

[merylinkid]

1 hour ago, irisheyes said:

I think all those questions about whether they were “tough enough” without the Karolyis were answered today. 

There's tough and then there's being a team.   Being a team is being supportive of each other not just when you are winning but when you hit rough spots.   The women are a team regardless of Karolyis version of "tough."

 

As for Kerri Strug.   All she had to do was one vault.   Should she have done it?   No.   But it was one vault.   Not continuing with several more routines.    There is so much difference between when Simone was injured and when Kerri was injured.   A lot of athletes would tough it out for the last routine.   Its in their nature (and face it, they can be as supportive and kind as they want to be, but they ARE competitors at heart).

[Minneapple]

6 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I'm sure that Marta would have sent her back out. Like they said in Athlete A, it was not like Kerri Strug wasn't going to do that final vault. 

I'm not even going to blame a bad culture or Marta or anything like that for Kerri going out there again. I seem to remember her teammates clapping and yelling from the sideline for her to get up, because it's something they had probably done themselves many times -- shake off an injury and just get up there and do it. Nobody really knew the extent of Kerri's injury when she fell, in fact several of them had just slipped on that very floor and come out OK. You see this over and over with athletes. It's not a bad thing, it's just the mindset of a highly competitive athlete.

[scarynikki12]

I love Aly

 

[PepSinger]

25 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

See, I don’t understand how the first and second paragraphs can coexist. It would have been dangerous to do it today, but won’t be in two days? I don’t get that. If the pressure was too much today, it’s going to be a million times worse two days from now. Give Jade her chance.

And no one has any right to judge her for anything? Bad news. This sport is decided by judges.

They can co exist because it’s one thing to let yourself down (AA, EF). It’s another thing to let your entire team down. I think it also speaks volumes that Simone felt comfortable enough to pull out because she trusted her teammates to succeed without her. That’s what being a part of a team means. If you can’t depend on your team, then what’s the point of being on a team?

On a separate and general note, mental issues are medical issues and do not need to be quantified. No one would say that a person with cancer is “flaking out” on anything, and the same applies here.

Edited July 27, 2021 by PepSinger
To clarify audience

[BitterApple]

I wish Simone the best, but the reality is she choked. It happens. As far as family not being there, she's 24 not 12. That shouldn't affect her one way or the other. I think success can often be a double-edged sword. You get the attention, accolades and endorsement cash, but you've also got the pressure of carrying the team. Some can handle it, some crack.

I wish her well I'm whatever she decided to do with the individual events.

[PepSinger]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

As far as family not being there, she's 24 not 12.

No one is too old to not need their family’s support.

[Jeddah]

3 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

On another note, mental issues are medical issues and do not need to be quantified. No one would say that a person with cancer is “flaking out” on anything, and the same applies here.

I’m not sure if this was intended as a reply to me, or if just your first paragraph was, but I never said anything like that.

[merylinkid]

3 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

t’s another thing to let your entire team down.

She didn't let the team down.   She did what was best for her safety/mental health.   If she had continued and been not in the right headspace, she might have been seriously injured or less importantly, screwed up so bad that the whole team was out of the medal race.   Better to step aside for your own safety and the good of the team if you aren't in the right headspace.

[dovegrey]

2 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I wish Simone the best, but the reality is she choked. It happens. As far as family not being there, she's 24 not 12. That shouldn't affect her one way or the other. I think success can often be a double-edged sword. You get the attention, accolades and endorsement cash, but you've also got the pressure of carrying the team. Some can handle it, some crack.

I wish her well I'm whatever she decided to do with the individual events.

It's well-recognized in psychological literature that, whatever your age, social support, or lack thereof, does affect people one way or another...and particularly those who have experienced trauma, such as sexual abuse. Here's a sample, for anyone interested: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2921311/#:~:text=Overall%2C it appears that positive,reduce medical morbidity and mortality. 

[BitterApple]

1 minute ago, PepSinger said:

No one is too old to not need their family’s support.

There's thousands of athletes competing without their families in attendance. They're still getting the job done. 

[Snow Apple]

Maybe Simone felt if she continued, she would have injured herself further and wouldn’t be able to compete in the next few days. Or worse, if she continued, maybe she felt she’d blow any chance of a medal for the team if she keep getting low scores. Only she knows if her body can compete at this point in time.

[AuntieDiane6]

17 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Maybe really what these athletes need is some kind of adviser or someone to talk to, a mental health counselor who can talk them through all of these things.

As an aside, it annoys me greatly that such pressure is put on the US women...and nobody even cares that the US men NEVER medal. Maybe the key is to have low expectations.

We don't expect the men to win.  Which is why they're not on the cover of People or in drug ads with their dad. That's why they're not going to be on tour with Simone this fall. They made their choice to be good, not great.  I say that because their foibles seem to be lack of concentration and silly errors.  

Yes, there are plenty of sports psychologists out there.  Skaters use them all the time.  

[dovegrey]

Why does NBC pay Bridget Sloan to provide commentary for the live events, but then pays Nastia Liukin to re-do commentary for the primetime event? IMO, Bridget is much stronger, technical, and fluid in her commentary, and, sorry to say, while I liked Nastia's gymnastics back in the day, her commentary is quite poor (and I can't with her ridiculous prom dresses). Does NBC think their average primetime viewer cares or knows it's Nastia? Why not just re-cut the live footage for the primetime show?

[Conotocarious]

Simone uses a sports psychologist and has been for years.

[Sarahsmile416]

Just now, dovegrey said:

Why does NBC pay Bridget Sloan to provide commentary for the live events, but then pays Nastia Liukin to re-do commentary for the primetime event? IMO, Bridget is much stronger, technical, and fluid in her commentary, and, sorry to say, while I liked Nastia's gymnastics back in the day, her commentary is quite poor (and I can't with her ridiculous prom dresses). Does NBC think their average primetime viewer cares or knows it's Nastia? Why not just re-cut the live footage for the primetime show?

I am loving Bridget Sloan on commentary.  She is great.  I loved Nastia Liukin but I agree with you here 

[dovegrey]

1 minute ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

I am loving Bridget Sloan on commentary.  She is great.  I loved Nastia Liukin but I agree with you here 

I loved Nastia when she was active, but I'm having a hard time liking her as she's moved on to NBC (and I glimpse her Instagram every now and then). I know Beijing didn't go the way everyone expected, but that was one of my favorite teams and favorite Games overall; and, my heart broke for Nastia when she fell at the 2012 Trials. Her over-the-top outfits this year coupled with her lackluster, reluctant commentary gives me the impression that she's more interested in looking good than being good. 

Today, Laurie Hernandez had some good analysis and a strong, clear voice; a little casual, a little reliant on her facial expressions to finish her thoughts, but I could see her going the commentator route, too. That's not the Laurie I remember from Rio! :) It's fun to see some of the gymnasts literally grow up and be successful.

[Jeddah]

10 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

I am loving Bridget Sloan on commentary.  She is great.  I loved Nastia Liukin but I agree with you here 

She genuinely seemed insulted when John Roethlisberger said she was like a judge. She knows how hard it is to be out there. I didn’t think she was being overly-critical at all.

[dovegrey]

2 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

She genuinely seemed insulted when John Roethlisberger said she was like a judge. She knows how hard it is to be out there. I didn’t think she was being overly-critical at all.

I thought she said made a similar comment to him first, earlier in the competition, and then he said it back to her in a jest-like way later on? Both times seemed a bit awkward.

[Jeddah]

1 minute ago, dovegrey said:

I thought she said made a similar comment to him first, earlier in the competition, and then he said it back to her in a jest-like way later on? Both times seemed a bit awkward.

I must have missed it the first time!