S11.E03: Sutton's Gotta Give

[Slakkie]

9 minutes ago, dmeets said:

I'm not sure, only because the only two to have a beef with Sutton so far had been Crystal and Door-it (at least before she made a melodrama out of not being let in on the joke immediately. Now all bets may be off). And I don't think Door-it was ever pro Denise, rather she was anti Brandy (because of the "your tits are fucked up" comment).

I think Sutton and Garcelle could have been deemed targets simply because of their sophomore status, but I could see the other women being spooked into leaving Garcelle alone considering all that's transpired since last summer.

I feel like Sutton was over-reacting not because of the women but here fear of how she would be edited.  And I agree with her, some people think if you live in the south they take your shoes and hand you a bible and a white sheet!  I was in NYC for a meeting and we were talking about dinner and one of the ladies looked at me and started talking to me like I was a moron and was describing what sushi was like.

I remarked I had heard of that there thum sliced fish stuff and I have also seen a C-ment pond and an indoor outhouse.  It shut them up but I do get it she was probably terrified that the Bravo splice and slice was after her.  She is lucky there is a bigger Pretty Mess coming.

[MaggieG]

Is Kathy a real person?! Or is this a character? I can't decide.

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, Slakkie said:

I feel like Sutton was over-reacting not because of the women but here fear of how she would be edited.  And I agree with her, some people think if you live in the south they take your shoes and hand you a bible and a white sheet!  I was in NYC for a meeting and we were talking about dinner and one of the ladies looked at me and started talking to me like I was a moron and was describing what sushi was like.

 

That would be funny, because it's everything she's doing to pre-emptively defend herself that would give them stuff to edit. Like at dinner when she was explaining what happened she said "all of a sudden it's a discussion about RACE!" as if she was at a garden party and suddenly people started throwing their food and not just a conversation where race pretty organically came up. She seems less worried about being edited and more set on centering herself as the one who has to deal with racism. Probably because she genuinely feels that way, like she assumes the problems actual POC have to deal with has been addressed fully already.

[Slakkie]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

That would be funny, because it's everything she's doing to pre-emptively defend herself that would give them stuff to edit. Like at dinner when she was explaining what happened she said "all of a sudden it's a discussion about RACE!" as if she was at a garden party and suddenly people started throwing their food and not just a conversation where race pretty organically came up. She seems less worried about being edited and more set on centering herself as the one who has to deal with racism. Probably because she genuinely feels that way, like she assumes the problems actual POC have to deal with has been addressed fully already.

she seems to be acting like a scalded cat.  It's really weird.  She is lucky that Erika is such a mess or her coo coo for Cocoa Puffs would be front and center

[Hiyo]

Speaking of Southern stereotypes, I can’t imagine most viewers are going to mistake Sutton for a steel magnolia. 

[Maximona]

Huh.

Personally, I'm totally Team Sutton here.  She's absolutely correct that white people with heavy Southern accents are stereotyped as racists.

And the difference between her and Ericka is NOT that Erika has lived in "cosmopolitan" places like New York & LAn(permit me a gale or two of musical laughter at the thought that there's anybody on the planet who doesn't know New York & LA are crockpots in which simmering racism is one of the prime flavoring agents) but that Erika—her eye ever on the showbiz prize—ditched the accent at an early age.

And quite frankly, it IS rude to text to other people at a table.  I don't know what the deal with Bravo and "pranks" is.  Maybe next time, Kathy Hilton can borrow some of Reza (Shahs of Sunset) Farahan's Liquid Ass.

 

[SemiCharmedLife]

4 hours ago, Set Them Free said:

I thought it was tacky of Garcelle to try to put down Paris Hilton in front of her mother.  

Also, I admired the way Kathy handled it, and will be forever grateful that she spared us the "how dare you come after my child" drama that was being teased before that scene.  I think Kathy is just acting like a ditz for the cameras.  I bet she is a lot smarter and savvier than she is letting on.   

I kind of live for Garcelle's forthrightness in talking about her past assumptions of Paris (or whatever the subject might be).  It's far better to bring it up to the family and get clarification than to talk about someone behind their back, which is too often the case with other housewives (or in the confessional).  This way, we are hearing some tea and Kathy was able to defend her daughter in a dignified way.  I would love to see more of these women be as open as Garcelle.

[sistermagpie]

30 minutes ago, Maximona said:

And the difference between her and Ericka is NOT that Erika has lived in "cosmopolitan" places like New York & LAn(permit me a gale or two of musical laughter at the thought that there's anybody on the planet who doesn't know New York & LA are crockpots in which simmering racism is one of the prime flavoring agents) but that Erika—her eye ever on the showbiz prize—ditched the accent at an early age.

 

That was the exact point she was making. Using the word in "multicultural" was what set Sutton off, but Dorit explicitly asked if maybe the reason Erika didn't have the same experience being sterotyped as a southerner as Sutton did was that Erika did not have as strong a Southern accent. She wasn't saying that Erika was less racist because she'd lived in NY or LA or that either of those places were free of racism. (Confederate flags fly in parts of both NY State and California as well.)

But not only did nobody at that table say Sutton was racist because she had a Southern accent, nobody disputed Sutton's personal experience either. Sutton was the person who got the most sympathy throughout the episode and yet she still considered herself the victim. Her shutting down a conversation about racist stereotypes as experienced by non-white people led to two scenes where she presented her pain of going through life as a white woman with a Southern accent. They could show this ep in a class on racial discourse!

Edited June 3, 2021 by sistermagpie

[Avaleigh]

4 hours ago, Set Them Free said:

I thought it was tacky of Garcelle to try to put down Paris Hilton in front of her mother.  

Also, I admired the way Kathy handled it, and will be forever grateful that she spared us the "how dare you come after my child" drama that was being teased before that scene.  I think Kathy is just acting like a ditz for the cameras.  I bet she is a lot smarter and savvier than she is letting on.   

I agree. I didn't think it was nice for Garcelle to bring it up. And if Garcelle absolutely had to bring it up, at least she didn't have to be so rude about it. 'Why are you here?' I don't think the average parent wants to hear that's what somebody thinks about their kid. At the very least, she could have phrased her observations in a nicer way.

Otoh I thought Kathy handled it well. Other RH women might have used that as an opportunity to show their fangs and bring some onscreen conflict, but Kathy just stayed calm, didn't get offended and explained that her daughter would basically use the phone as a security blanket. It was actually refreshing to see a housewife pass on the opportunity to get into an on camera argument. 

2 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I'm normally not a big fan of pranks or practical jokes, but this was both well-executed and about as victimless a prank as one can find. Plus, the fact is that it became a double prank (with Kathy and Dorit seemingly pranking all of the women, then Erika and Rinna figuring it out and pulling the prank back on Kathy and Dorit). There was nothing malicious and no intent to keep it from Sutton, she's just so fragile and insecure that she turned it into an issue about being kept out of it.  As someone else noted, Kyle was also unaware of what was going on but didn't feel the need to turn it into drama. 

I am truly mystified at Sutton's OTT reaction. This incident was so minor. When I think of the various conflicts over the years that have hit the RH shows I watch, this one wouldn't even be worth mentioning. If Sutton is brought to tears over finding out about this minor prank, I really think that she should reconsider being on a reality show. For her own benefit, she might be too sensitive and insecure. She seemed like she had a borderline anxiety attack and over what? What happened to her that was so terrible that everyone's night needed to be ruined?

[Door County Cherry]

25 minutes ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

I kind of live for Garcelle's forthrightness in talking about her past assumptions of Paris

I think it was a good discussion because, as they said "you never know" someone's full story.  However, when Garcelle said "she used to bug me....." I thought for sure she was going to say something about reevaluating her earlier opinions of Paris.  It felt like there was more to come there but that didn't happen.  Otherwise,  I think it's a fair statement.  Paris deliberately portrayed a specific side of her, that may have been false, and capitalized on it.  It wasn't until she got older that I started to see that there was more to her than initially met the eye. 

[Maximona]

14 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

That was the exact point she was making.

You could be right, sistermagpie.  😊.  I'm so unused to Dorit making subtle points.  It's possible I tuned her out.

 

14 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

If Sutton is brought to tears over finding out about this minor prank, I really think that she should reconsider being on a reality show.

Interestingly, it's this Mean Girl shit that gets under my skin more than all the obviously manufactured BS like Puppygate and did-Denise-didn't-Denise-do-Brandi.  Because it's the type of group dynamic that happens from time to time in what we laughingly refer to as "real" life.

It wasn't the prank that got to Sutton.

It was the fact that she felt excluded from some sort of in-group.

 

[Hiyo]

“It wasn't the prank that got to Sutton.

It was the fact that she felt excluded from some sort of in-group.”

But both Kyle and Crystle experienced the same, and had different reactions to it. They weren’t included so it wasn’t like this was some mean girl act to make Sutton feel bad.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I want this ring

[teapot]

44 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

“It wasn't the prank that got to Sutton.

It was the fact that she felt excluded from some sort of in-group.”

But both Kyle and Crystle experienced the same, and had different reactions to it. They weren’t included so it wasn’t like this was some mean girl act to make Sutton feel bad.

See, I think that Kyle is obviously already “in”, and Crystal fits in seamlessly.

Sutton is uncomfortable in her own skin, so she’s hypersensitive.  It’s hard to break into a new group,

I hate when people have secrets in front of me.  I fake-laugh it off because what can you do?  But I hate it!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[princelina]

9 hours ago, FancyNancy said:

Rinna looked cute in the confessionals.

I don’t know if this has already been mentioned, but Kathy gives me Caitlyn. Every time I look at her, I see Caitlyn with softer features.

Haha I say it every week!  😄. I can't stand her.  I knew the minute we heard that she likes "pranks" we would be subjected to one - I hope it's a one and done.  I also think she's acting like she does on purpose and I guess it's working since most people here seem to like her. 

7 hours ago, Hiyo said:

This show has had some great vacation trips. Rome, London, Hong Kong, Berlin, Amsterdam, Puerto Rico...even the side or smaller trips to places like Tokyo, Greece, NYC, the Hamptons, etc offer great vacation porn.

I even enjoyed seeing Tahoe!

4 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

I'm normally not a big fan of pranks or practical jokes, but this was both well-executed and about as victimless a prank as one can find. Plus, the fact is that it became a double prank (with Kathy and Dorit seemingly pranking all of the women, then Erika and Rinna figuring it out and pulling the prank back on Kathy and Dorit). There was nothing malicious and no intent to keep it from Sutton, she's just so fragile and insecure that she turned it into an issue about being kept out of it.  As someone else noted, Kyle was also unaware of what was going on but didn't feel the need to turn it into drama. 

Technically Erika and Rinna didn't figure it out - Dorit texted them and then coyly told them to check their phones, which they did and then snickered and laughed, while Sutton sat there in the middle watching them.  I'm the sort of person that thing happens to so my sympathy was with Sutton in that scene; overall she needs to chill out.  Whoever said "Lamest cliffhanger ever" was totally right!!!

[MissFeatherbottom]

Just now, princelina said:

Technically Erika and Rinna didn't figure it out - Dorit texted them and then coyly told them to check their phones, which they did and then snickered and laughed, while Sutton sat there in the middle watching them.  I'm the sort of person that thing happens to so my sympathy was with Sutton in that scene; overall she needs to chill out.  Whoever said "Lamest cliffhanger ever" was totally right!!!

I had sympathy for Sutton too in that moment when she thought they were texting about her. I have that happen at work where they are in a group chat on messenger and all laughing and i'm the only one not in the chat. Very annoying but I just try to ignore it and not let it bother me. Once Sutton realized what they were texting about and the prank, she should have let it go though!

[Almost 3000]

14 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I think Kathy might work better in smaller doses as a Friend of. She doesn't need a full diamond.

Yes! If she's smart she'll just let us see the fun and quirky in small doses as a "friend of". Hopefully she can rehab her frosty, bitchy and questionable image. There's stuff floating around from the "Hilton" book, her previous reality show and things her kids have said that has always made me give her the side eye. But if she can entertain me as an almost wife, I'll be grateful. I was ready to drop BH, still might but I'll take some chuckles if she provides them.

[heatherchandler]

6 hours ago, Set Them Free said:

I thought it was tacky of Garcelle to try to put down Paris Hilton in front of her mother.  

 

I loved that she said that!  Kathy's daughter "played dumb" to be "cute" for years.  It was so gross, I remember waiting for the day she became irrelevant.  I was thrilled when she went away.  I don't care that she is trying to get back into public by being "real," I don't want her back at all.

 

4 hours ago, Shannah Banana said:

 

I already despise Chrystal, just another big mouth know it all.

 

 

She really is.

 

2 hours ago, Maximona said:

 

 

Interestingly, it's this Mean Girl shit that gets under my skin more than all the obviously manufactured BS like Puppygate and did-Denise-didn't-Denise-do-Brandi.  Because it's the type of group dynamic that happens from time to time in what we laughingly refer to as "real" life.

It wasn't the prank that got to Sutton.

It was the fact that she felt excluded from some sort of in-group.

 

Agree!  And I really felt for her.

[Thumper]

I only half watch, so I was unclear about the double prank until someone here explained it.  My fault!  But I did feel bad for Sutton, too.  She probably already felt “out” of the group due to the unfortunate Crystal convo (of which I agree Sutton overreacted and should have just listened) — and then felt left out of the “cool group.”

I’m feeling a group attack ahead on Sutton, and that makes me sad.  She is too sensitive to be on this show.

I want Erika to be taken down.  She has been so cold, rude, and unkind to many other housewives.  In particular, I am thinking of Eileen.

[SemiCharmedLife]

1 hour ago, MissFeatherbottom said:

I had sympathy for Sutton too in that moment when she thought they were texting about her. I have that happen at work where they are in a group chat on messenger and all laughing and i'm the only one not in the chat. Very annoying but I just try to ignore it and not let it bother me. Once Sutton realized what they were texting about and the prank, she should have let it go though!

I agree.  She's got a couple of things that are making her even more paranoid and stressed out.  

1. She's convinced that Crystal thinks she is a racist and doesn't want to be painted that way on tv.  She keeps putting her foot in her mouth and makes it worse with each utterance.  She just needs a little education about why being color-blind is no longer the goal.  She needs to stop trying to equate her experiences as a Southern white woman with those of WOC.  She could learn a lot by just listening and taking it all in and keeping quiet for a bit.  (Though I don't know how she has not already absorbed some of these things by now!)

2.  She knows how cutthroat these women are, so she assumes the worst when she's made an ass of herself and now they are texting back and forth.  She's probably assuming they are texting about her comments.

3.  After the prank was revealed, she felt left out, but she didn't handle that well either.  Can she see the handwriting on the wall?  Is she the one they target this year?

 

[Hiyo]

So far Sutton seems to be doing all of the handwriting herself.

[Feech]

It’s obvious that Sutton was the intended target of the hyena pack when this season started. She is scrambling to put it on someone else the way Dorit did to LVP when Dorit was supposed to be the target of Puppygate and turned it around.

We will have to see which way Rinna jumps. She is productions surrogate and if she goes in on Erika than the target will have changed.

[hoodooznoodooz]

10 hours ago, Hangin Out said:

How did you just watch N.Y. and already you are on here?  After the N.Y. disaster, I had to take to the bed .. not kidding.  I love the way these housewives eat .. their lips do not touch the food.  Such a hardship.  I guess Connecticut Dorit became British.  What a crock.

Also, I prioritize this board over actual conversations with my acquaintances/not-so-close friends. I find you guys wittier and more interesting most of the time.

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

I loved that she said that!  Kathy's daughter "played dumb" to be "cute" for years.  It was so gross, I remember waiting for the day she became irrelevant.  I was thrilled when she went away.  I don't care that she is trying to get back into public by being "real," I don't want her back at all.

I agree with you 100% about Paris. I just thought it was a bit much for Garcelle to say what she was thinking and put it so bluntly since she's ostensibly trying to be friends with Kathy. It wasn't nice but again, I agree that Paris was/is annoying and have no interest in her comeback mission.

[chlban]

8 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

I'll have to rewatch the scene again then!  Admittedly, I was multi-tasking while it was on. Thanks for that.

Doing the rewatch now of this episode and I see that Crystal explained it well and apologized for the way she came at it so right -- seemingly Sutton should've been over that "you're one of those girls" (which is what I reacted to). 

I still can't believe Crystal ended up apologizing to Sutton. Should have been the other way around. 

[chlban]

1 hour ago, Thumper said:

I only half watch, so I was unclear about the double prank until someone here explained it.  My fault!  But I did feel bad for Sutton, too.  She probably already felt “out” of the group due to the unfortunate Crystal convo (of which I agree Sutton overreacted and should have just listened) — and then felt left out of the “cool group.”

I’m feeling a group attack ahead on Sutton, and that makes me sad.  She is too sensitive to be on this show.

I want Erika to be taken down.  She has been so cold, rude, and unkind to many other housewives.  In particular, I am thinking of Eileen.

We better see the Erika take down. That's whatI am her 

 

1 hour ago, Thumper said:

I only half watch, so I was unclear about the double prank until someone here explained it.  My fault!  But I did feel bad for Sutton, too.  She probably already felt “out” of the group due to the unfortunate Crystal convo (of which I agree Sutton overreacted and should have just listened) — and then felt left out of the “cool group.”

I’m feeling a group attack ahead on Sutton, and that makes me sad.  She is too sensitive to be on this show.

I want Erika to be taken down.  She has been so cold, rude, and unkind to many other housewives.  In particular, I am thinking of Eileen.

She better be taken down. That's why I am watching. Stealing from orphans and widows pretty much Trumps having sex with Brandi-if that even happened and I so dob't care. I can't stand Paris Hilton, and all of the Richard's sisters,  but insulting someone's child is pretty much the epitome of rude. Garcelle lost some points with me on that.   

Edited June 4, 2021 by chlban

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Feech said:

It’s obvious that Sutton was the intended target of the hyena pack when this season started. She is scrambling to put it on someone else the way Dorit did to LVP when Dorit was supposed to be the target of Puppygate and turned it around.

Who's she trying to put it on, General Sherman?

With Puppygate, iirc, Dorit got outed for doing something wrong, and it then LVP got outed for possibly orchestrating a big reveal that Dorit had done the thing after pretending she didn't think it was a big deal.

In this situation nobody did anything. Sutton just randomly announced three times that nobody should talk about racism because it was hard for white Southern women. 

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, chlban said:

I still can't believe Crystal ended up apologizing to Sutton. Should have been the other way around. 

Sutton's a manipulator.  Great at playing the victim.  She turned on the waterworks and turned the situation around so that Crystal had to stand there awkwardly until finally there was nothing to do to placate Sutton except apologize.  Totally ridiculous.

People are only going to roll their eyes when Sutton cries out that her worst fear is being labelled as a racist.  There are so many worse problems out there.  Like racism.  I can't believe how narrow her world is at 50 or 60 or whatever she is.  She's obviously faced no real challenge on this topic.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

5 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I agree. I didn't think it was nice for Garcelle to bring it up. And if Garcelle absolutely had to bring it up, at least she didn't have to be so rude about it. 'Why are you here?' I don't think the average parent wants to hear that's what somebody thinks about their kid. At the very least, she could have phrased her observations in a nicer way.

Otoh I thought Kathy handled it well. Other RH women might have used that as an opportunity to show their fangs and bring some onscreen conflict, but Kathy just stayed calm, didn't get offended and explained that her daughter would basically use the phone as a security blanket. It was actually refreshing to see a housewife pass on the opportunity to get into an on camera argument. 

I am truly mystified at Sutton's OTT reaction. This incident was so minor. When I think of the various conflicts over the years that have hit the RH shows I watch, this one wouldn't even be worth mentioning. If Sutton is brought to tears over finding out about this minor prank, I really think that she should reconsider being on a reality show. For her own benefit, she might be too sensitive and insecure. She seemed like she had a borderline anxiety attack and over what? What happened to her that was so terrible that everyone's night needed to be ruined?

Garcelle is my favorite, but I agree. I loved how Kathy handled it. Erika would have exploded and demanded multiple apologies. 

Agree with you about Sutton too. Kyle always talks about having the worst anxiety, but somehow she manages to do the show just fine. She's no fragile little butterfly with how confrontational she is. Sutton on the under hand, even when her behavior is ridiculous, I want to save her. She's not built for RH. 

[Stats Queen]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

People are only going to roll their eyes when people cry out that their worst fear is being labelled as a racist. 

Being a victim of racism is beyond awful and so far from my frame of reference. Nothing can be worse or ever compare.

That being said, the  fear of being labeled as a racist is incredibly frightening, especially when you have lived your life striving to to be the exact opposite in words and actions.

Just because you don’t understand how the phrase “I am color blind” is now unacceptable, that does not inherently make you a racist. I am 56 and years ago we were taught that not seeing color was important because we were judging people based on who they were on the inside, not the outside. That WAS what was the original meaning behind “being color blind”. It meant that I care more about you as an individual and how you treat others, which matters more important than any other factor.
Many of us old white people now realize that while this was a great concept in general, in practice it didn’t attend to the divides/disadvantages/unique challenges between ethnicities.

That being said, I am increasingly concerned that just because I am white, I will be automatically be labeled as inherently racist. I should be judged by my actions and treatment of my fellow human beings (regardless or religion, color, gender, ethnicity, etc.) 
I have only lived my experiences from my personal frame of reference; I did not have the ability to live another person’s experiences, but I have learned so much from other’s experiences because we developed mutual trust from which to share with each other.

What I have learned from others who have lived different experiences than myself is the most valuable education I have each received or hope to ever receive (and I have had a LOT of formal education). 

These types of conversations only happen when you are open to learning from each other and accepting that the other party has a way to go - providing a path for growth is much much more rewarding and useful than a path for instant judgment.

Everyone has to be willing to have difficult conservations for all of us to move forward. 

Many people actually want to become more enlightened but they are afraid to say or ask any question whatsoever because they fear they will automatically be labeled racist. 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Stats Queen

[Ms Blue Jay]

I was talking about Sutton.  Not anyone here.  I've changed some pronouns in my post.

[Cosmocrush]

18 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Garcelle is my favorite, but I agree. I loved how Kathy handled it. Erika would have exploded and demanded multiple apologies. 

I feel the same about Kathy.  Conveniently, she had her sunglasses on so I'm sure that helped but she just smiled, gave an explanation and let it go.   Erika ripped Eileen to shreds over some innocent comment about her son.   

18 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Kyle always talks about having the worst anxiety, but somehow she manages to do the show just fine. She's no fragile little butterfly with how confrontational she is. Sutton on the under hand, even when her behavior is ridiculous, I want to save her. She's not built for RH. 

Yep.   Kyle is a pro.   Even when her anxiety was (rightly) skyrocketing after her mammogram indicated she had to go back for more imaging - she invited the camera and soldiered on.  40 years in front of the camera will do that.  

On the other hand, my instinct towards Sutton behaving like some delicate flower wasn't to save her as much as it was to slap her, tell her to snap out of it and toughen up, lol.  

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Cosmocrush
grammar

[Cosmocrush]

7 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I was talking about Sutton.  Not anyone here.  I've changed some pronouns in my post.

I got that. And I agree with your post.   

It's kind of breathtaking how unwilling/uninterested Sutton is on this issue, especially after the summer of 2020.  

Edited June 4, 2021 by Cosmocrush

[Ms Blue Jay]

31 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

It's kind of breathtaking how unwilling/uninterested Sutton is on this issue, especially after the summer of 2020.  

It is!  Especially considering how this all started:  Crystal trying to speak to Kyle about things that she's dealt with in her life!  Not some kind of insane fantasy of a mob screaming at Sutton You are a racist.  A woman standing nearby and speaking about racism is not an attack on Sutton personally and she's definitely got some things to work on and unpack there.  If she wants to continue to work with two non-white women who, god forbid, might want to vent and share experiences from their own lives.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

34 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

Being a victim of racism is beyond awful and so far from my frame of reference. Nothing can be worse.

However, the fear of being labeled as a racist is frightening, especially when you have lived your life to be anything but racist. Just because you don’t understand how the phrase “I am color blind” is now unacceptable, that does not inherently make you a racist. I am 56 and years ago we were taught that not seeing color was important because we were judging people based on who they were on the inside, not the outside. That WAS what was the original meaning behind “being color blind”. It meant that I care more about who you are and how your treat others, shade of skin doesn’t matter. 
Many of us old white people now realize that while this was a great concept in general, in practice it didn’t attend to the divides/advantages between ethnicities. 

That being said, I am increasingly concerned just because I am white, I will be automatically be labeled as an inherently racist. I should be judged by my actions and treatment of my fellow human beings (regardless or religion, color, gender, ethnicity, etc.)

I agree being the victim of racism is of course far worse (can literally be deadly) but that being labeled racist is frightening in 2021.  

I don't do social media, but I've had family and friends who aren't racists labeled racists just for social media posts. I can't share all of them because some of it is political. But one person in particular is very woke, has experienced racism as a POC herself, is antiracist, and has donated money and time toward black causes. She didn't agree a specific police shooting was due to racism and was called a racist idiot.

I'm not personally offended by "I don't see color." I get that's how people were taught just a generation above me. I get the point to a degree. It can be hurtful when all someone sees you as is your color. I know an Asian man who had a friend who'd say "Hey Asian," and it annoyed the hell out of him, rightly so. We obviously notice one another's physical appearances, and most of us are curious about different backgrounds. So yes, we literally see color, but "I don't see color" was supposed to mean you didn't care/fixate on color. 

Sutton's views that are problematic to me are the fact she seems to think she has it just as bad as people of color due to southern stereotypes and how dare minorities discuss racism because it's 2021 and there's no racism! I can see why Crystal figured she'd be the type to say I don't see color, end of story. 

I live in the south. I've never been called racist. I've never heard anyone say all white people are racist IRL. My issue is people who think it's okay to be racist around me. I always think, what would lead anyone to believe that is acceptable to say around me? Do they see my light skin and think it's okay to say anything about black people? It can get really tiring being the woke police. 

[princelina]

41 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Agree with you about Sutton too. Kyle always talks about having the worst anxiety, but somehow she manages to do the show just fine. She's no fragile little butterfly with how confrontational she is. Sutton on the under hand, even when her behavior is ridiculous, I want to save her. She's not built for RH. 

It's interesting to me how the women portray themselves on these shows, and even how their self-portrayal changes from season to season.  Sutton started out her debut season last year first bragging about her wealth (but of course 😄 )and then showing up at Kyle's dinner party where she made a huge stink about not having place cards and then telling too much truth at the "truth game" they played.  I thought at the time that both of those things were "mean".  This year she's all about pointing out how "mean" everyone else is. 

On another note - at that dinner Dorit looked very pretty in a Gwyneth Paltrow kind of way - then they segue to that TH where she's got the flower child hair, odd self-tanner and highlighting, INSANE breasts, and possibly the Lisa Rinna Lip Look Kit?  If that were me I think I'd faint after seeing myself so pretty at the dinner, and so space alien in the TH!

[Starlight925]

Sutton and her hair-trigger sensitivity has my armchair psyche diagnosing brain going.  I'm not a therapist, so I won't say what I think, but I know what I think.  What I will say is, something just ain't right there.

When she said her dad was "mentally ill", I'm not sure what his actual diagnosis was, but there's definitely something deeper going on.  And then she said her psychotherapist mom is a "piece of work".  

When she & Crystal were sort of bonding early in the episode over shared pain of losing their fathers, Sutton was absolutely blank when Crystal was sharing, dealing with her dad having Alzheimers, which is such a slow & painful process.  Sutton just kept saying "umm hmmm, ummm hmmm", and waiting for her turn to interject.  While I think Sutton thought they were bonding, what she was really doing was talking about her own situation, and barely giving Crystal a moment of compassion.

Sutton over-reacted to almost everything in this episode:  

-When Dorit said that Erica had had multi-cultural exposure, Sutton about blew a gasket.  So easily offended at something that had nothing to do with her.  Dorit was talking about Erika, not dissing Sutton.

-The whole Crystal/you're "that girl" conversation = Sutton cried

-Not being in on the table joke.  While it was super immature, it wasn't worth getting that upset over.  Gurl, join in, laugh, move on, and next time, they'll want to include you.

Sutton's go-to is overly sensitive + crying.  There's a psychological term for it, but I'm not gonna diagnose.  I did grow up with a mother who defines it, so it's very familiar to me.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Starlight925

[Pattycake2]

These women are ridiculous. I think that Sutton realized  that she was this season’s target and that’s why she was beginning to get so upset.  I also wonder if Garcelle’s discussion on Paris was a set up. Paris has been going through some kind of rehabilitation effort and this was a wonderful opportunity to try to explain her behavior as just being shy.  Puhleeze, she was the IT girl who could get away with anything and enjoyed every minute of it.

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 minutes ago, Starlight925 said:

When she & Crystal were sort of bonding early in the episode over shared pain of losing their fathers, Sutton was absolutely blank when Crystal was sharing, dealing with her dad having Alzheimers, which is such a slow & painful process.  Sutton just kept saying "umm hmmm, ummm hmmm", and waiting for her turn to interject.  While I think Sutton thought they were bonding, what she was really doing was talking about her own situation, and barely giving Crystal a moment of compassion.

I noticed the exact same thing.

She also berated Crystal about the "Are you that girl?" until Crystal apologized.  Then she also said her own "apology" which seemed incredibly fake.  Crystal didn't even do anything.  She asked a question.  She didn't even ask if Sutton was a racist, just if she considered herself color-blind.  

And then the father issue.  Crystal spoke about hers and Sutton showed absolutely zero empathy and then just started speaking about her own.

How did Sutton become a HW anyway?  Did people really like her from her first season?  I certainly didn't.

7 minutes ago, princelina said:

On another note - at that dinner Dorit looked very pretty in a Gwyneth Paltrow kind of way 

I agree, sometimes she can look very pretty.  I even like her odd "Worldly Woman" accent.  LOL.  It's really calming.  I feel like she was barely in this episode though.  I kept wondering where she was.  I guess the producers had to make room for all of Sutton's histrionics.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Starlight925]

8 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I noticed the exact same thing.

She also berated Crystal about the "Are you that girl?" until Crystal apologized.  Then she also said her own "apology" which seemed incredibly fake.  Crystal didn't even do anything.  She asked a question.  She didn't even ask if Sutton was a racist, just if she considered herself color-blind.  

And then the father issue.  Crystal spoke about hers and Sutton showed absolutely zero empathy and then just started speaking about her own.

How did Sutton become a HW anyway?  Did people really like her from her first season?  I certainly didn't.

+100 !

Crystal asked Sutton where she grew up, where her parents were from.  You know, the way one person gets to know another.  Sutton didn't ask Crystal one question about herself.  She kept turning it back to herself.

And yes, zero empathy.

I'm not sure I'm on the total Crystal train, but she was trying.  Sutton was blank, until it was her turn to talk.

[Brooke0707]

I love Kathy. She is so weird and self assured about it. And she has this calming energy about her.

I think Dorit’s old face was better.

Not a fan of Crystal. She seems mean and not in an entertaining way.

 

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, Brooke0707 said:

I love Kathy. She is so weird and self assured about it. And she has this calming energy about her.

She really does. It is very frustrating not being able to see. She just does her best and pokes fun at herself. I wish she'd get over her fear of contact lenses, because it would be life changing.

I'd never drink soda, much less a red bull before bed. She's like oh well, I'll enjoy it. The others wouldn't even dare much on carbs just before bed. I love how chill she is. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

Garcelle looks amazing in the puffy white coat/vest over the white turtleneck with cool gloves.

Crystal’s top would look better if the feather (fringe?) trim were continuous across the chest. 

Rinna should always pull/slick back her hair. She looks great in the pink jacket TH. She looks much nicer when she covers her chest.

Edited June 4, 2021 by hoodooznoodooz

[hoodooznoodooz]

That prank was dumb.

[MrsWitter]

9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Her shutting down a conversation about racist stereotypes as experienced by non-white people led to two scenes where she presented her pain of going through life as a white woman with a Southern accent. They could show this ep in a class on racial discourse!

Can confirm. Mr. Witter teaches a class each semester on race, class and gender in media and, the minute he saw that scene, he said: “it’s like they’re purposefully serving up content for next semester.” I love being able to tell him that my excessive consumption of Bravo is very helpful for his job. 😂

[MsTree]

13 hours ago, MaggieG said:

Is Kathy a real person?! Or is this a character? I can't decide.

Like mother, like daughter....🤷‍♀️

[Chatty Cake]

Sutton ramped up her southern accent this season didn’t she?  I don’t find her entertaining at all. She’s trying too hard and it keeps backfiring. 
Crystal has the potential to be annoying but so far I don’t mind her. 
Kathy is different than I imagined. I thought the original prank was kind of funny but then Dimwit had to add another layer to it which made it lose steam. By the time Sutton overreacted to it, Kathy looked like WTF happened to my slightly funny prank? 
 

[Hiyo]

I’m not even sure how Sutton could possibly arrive at any sort of conclusion that the other women are targeting or going to target her to “take her down” this season. Garcelle, Kyle, and Kathy all seem to like her. Dorit, Lisa, and Erika don’t seem to have any issue with her. And any beef between Sutton and Crystal is usually started by Sutton herself.

Sutton could end up a with self-fulfilling prophecy wherein her own actions cause the other women to just want to stop being around her and avoid filming with her due to her non-stop insecurity and need to paint herself as some type of victim. Which of course would give her even more of an excuse to play the victim.

If anything, Kathy is proving herself to be who Sutton is supposed to be on this show, i.e. the eccentric and quirky one with money to spare (“You stole my goddam role on this show Kathy!”).

[eleanorofaquitaine]

28 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

I’m not even sure how Sutton could possibly arrive at any sort of conclusion that the other women are targeting or going to target her to “take her down” this season. Garcelle, Kyle, and Kathy all seem to like her. Dorit, Lisa, and Erika don’t seem to have any issue with her. And any beef between Sutton and Crystal is usually started by Sutton herself.

Sutton could end up a with self-fulfilling prophecy wherein her own actions cause the other women to just want to stop being around her and avoid filming with her due to her non-stop insecurity and need to paint herself as some type of victim. Which of course would give her even more of an excuse to play the victim.

If anything, Kathy is proving herself to be who Sutton is supposed to be on this show, i.e. the eccentric and quirky one with money to spare (“You stole my goddam role on this show Kathy!”).

Right? It seems to me that this narrative that is forming that "clearly Sutton was aware she is going to be targeted and that explains her words" is really just itself a way to avoid holding Sutton responsible for her comments. Nothing shown on screen indicates that the women had any intention of "targeting" Sutton or piling on her. Furthermore, her comments are what prompted the discussion about race.  Crystal was just minding her own business trying to talk about her own experience when Sutton - unprompted - busted out with "I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT RACIAL STEREOTYPES!!!!"  

Sutton's clearly not comfortable talking about race and that's not a surprise. A lot of white people are in the same boat. But her way of dealing with it is to try to weaponize the conversation so that everyone will see her as the victim rather than maybe sitting with the discomfort of understanding the depth of racism and how she may have benefitted from her white privilege.  So far, in fact, the other women haven't treated her badly because of her outburst - even Crystal was willing to sit down and listen to her.

But IMO, claiming that because Sutton's feels uncomfortable clearly shows that the women are targeting her is just another way to absolve her of her comments.  (And to be fair to Sutton herself, her recent apology demonstrates that she at least is learning and isn't trying to excuse how she acted at this moment, anyway).

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Re Kathy, Kyle, and Garcelle. First of all, I think what Kyle said in her talking head about Garcelle's comments re Paris were quite mild. All she said was (paraphrasing) "I'm glad Garcelle and I patched things up, otherwise I would be annoyed with her talking about another member of my family," which in the history of this show is hardly flying off the handle.

Secondly, I wasn't quite sure where Garcelle was going with it. I am no fan of Paris Hilton's at all but I did think it was kind of tacky for Garcelle to bring her up to just criticize her but then it also seemed like Garcelle was going in a direction of saying that Paris has "matured" since then. (I am not sure that is actually the case but it seemed like that was where Garcelle was going). 

But I think all three handled it fine. I am guessing Kathy is a pro at dealing with criticism of Paris at this time, as is Kyle.  So it ended up being a decent conversation among the three.