Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

[SunnyBeBe]

14 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

My impression after watching the two docs is more in line with @merylinkid's assessment.  NVIXM is nothing but a pyramid scheme with Keith at the top.  Allison and the Bronfmans were his second layer, right at the top with him and big decision makers. 

India was definitely lower.  She drank all the kool-aid but she was not in the inner circle.  Because NVIXM and DOS were operated as a pyramid, she was a second tier slave, but she also had to recruit her own slaves.  So in that sense she had some culpability, but then again she had provided collateral and was kept in a constant state of sleep deprivation and her food was controlled.  So I don't think she had near the level of agency that Allison did.  Also, after Allison was arrested, she "found" a lot of incriminating tapes about just how high Allison was in the structure and I believe she had her own get out of jail free card by turning on Allison.  So just like NVIXM itself, the level of cooperating with the authorities seems to have played out like a pyramid: India gives up Allison and Allison in turn gives up Keith.

Even India’s own docu showed the freedom and autonomy she had once recruiting, time and distance from the group, offers of help, etc. that she refused. And it didn’t appear that they ever needed India and didn’t use the recordings she found. It’s a while since I watched, I’d have to rewatch for details.  I get the concept of being unduly influenced by the cult, but based on India’s own words, I have certain impressions about her culpability that I didn’t expect before seeing it.  Some other viewers  share it too as reflected over on a thread on  this site about her docu series I described above.  
 

So, she’s fortunate her mother really worked so actively to protect her from arrest.  I wish her well, as well as those victims she affected.  I hope she’s truly recovered. 

[catlover79]

33 minutes ago, RedElf said:

Janet Hubert called her out for her celebration.

She sure did! Of course, Phylicia is trying to backpedal what she said in that tweet. 🙄

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.revolt.tv/platform/amp/news/2021/6/30/22558441/janet-hubert-checks-phylicia-rashad-bill-cosby-tweets

[biakbiak]

4 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

She sure did! Of course, Phylicia is trying to backpedal what she said in that tweet. 🙄

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.revolt.tv/platform/amp/news/2021/6/30/22558441/janet-hubert-checks-phylicia-rashad-bill-cosby-tweets

She is also tearing it up in the comments! 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, RedElf said:

Janet Hubert called her out for her celebration.

Boy howdy:

 

[Anela]

9 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I haven’t heard a peep from the MeToo posse. Why is that? 

You mean the men and women everywhere, who were talking about how disgusting this is, all over the place - on social media, and off? #metoo was about sexual harassment, and rape. If there is a posse, I'm a part of it. Sorry if I'm a little late with a post. He admitted to raping something like sixty women - drugging them, and then raping them. He's out, and Britney Spears was denied her freedom, that she was fighting for. 

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, will India Oxenberg be prosecuted?  She was involved in recruiting and defending the others until after Keith’s arrest, right?

I wondered about Nicki Clyne, who has doubled down on everything being more like a sorority, and has now started an account on a site called "locals" that I guess you pay to join. She has said that people will get her full story there. So she's capitalizing on her involvement, and "relationship" with the louse that hopefully will not get out on a technicality. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Even India’s own docu showed the freedom and autonomy she had once recruiting, time and distance from the group, offers of help, etc. that she refused. And it didn’t appear that they ever needed India and didn’t use the recordings she found. It’s a while since I watched, I’d have to rewatch for details.  I get the concept of being unduly influenced by the cult, but based on India’s own words, I have certain impressions about her culpability that I didn’t expect before seeing it.  Some other viewers  share it too as reflected over on a thread on  this site about her docu series I described above.  

I would say that there is a difference between real freedom and autonomy and perceived freedom and autonomy. How free was she really when she was being abused and threatened? All of that makes it really difficult to assign legal culpability. 

You really need a mountain of evidence to override the sympathy that victims engender and even then that’s often not enough. As for if she should have been charged you really can’t go by her own story because it’s unlikely she would be telling that story without protections in place. 

[MargeGunderson]

Damn, Janet Hubert! I love how direct she is.

[Vermicious Knid]

I hope all 58 of Cosby's accusers get lawyers from the Time's Up Legal Defense Fund and sue him in civil court.

Fourth woman sues Marilyn Manson, claiming "sexual assault, sexual battery, intentional infliction of emotional distress, human trafficking, and unlawful imprisonment, among other allegations."

[stonehaven]

With reference to PR's joy over Cosby's release, I wonder what the showrunner's of This is Us will do. I was not that thrilled to have her on that show after all this and my inclination is to fast forward through any scene she might be in now. 

[merylinkid]

9 hours ago, Dani said:

t generally takes more than bringing in new people to be prosecuted. They only charged the people at the highest levels. With people below that the line between perpetrator and victim is blurry.

this is how Epstein controlled  his victims.   He definitely had the prosecutors snowed.   So when the victims tried to come forward, the prosecutors threatened the ones who had been forced to recruit others with sex trafficking charges.   So they backed off.   Virginia Giuffre finally said "fuck it" and went ahead.   But by getting the minors to commit crimes, Epstein controlled them to protect himself.  "I go down, you go down with me."  The world is a better place with him dead.

[Chaos Theory]

With cults you can’t really prosecute everyone for everything.   Think of it like gangs or the mob.   You use the small time members to take down the ruling class and for better and worse Allison Mack was part of the ruling class.  Reiner was ultimately king but Allison Mack was one of his generals.   
 

And yeah I am not sure why no one went after Nikki Clyne.    I actually think her power was through Allison Mack her fake wife and only rose to power herself after the shit hit the fan and is now the power behind the cult which often happens after a huge arrest.  “Someone” punches their way to power afterwards.  She was actually a nobody before.

The same with India Oxenberg.  India was a nobody that became a symbol during the trial and people on all sides are reading too much into how much influence she actually had.  Cults don’t give influence to too many people.   She had just enough to do what they needed her to do.   At worst she might have gotten a few friends to join and maybe had a few “slaves” of her own in the cult but even if she did it would be cruel to prosecute her.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, biakbiak said:

The show runner and some of the other people working on A Different World actually wanted to write it into the show because they thought it would be an interesting and realistic storyline of her trying to juggle both but they were overruled (it was in the recent oral history in Vanity Fair about ADW that also mentioned the Tempest/Darryl relationship*).
*eta there was nothing shady about Tempest/Darryl’s relationship I just forgot all the surprise that they have been married for 27 years was in the general celebrity thread).

 

Further evidence that Cosby's anger and obsession with her "non marital pregnancy" had nothing to do with industry standards, money, or general social attitudes but his own vendetta towards her. 

Lisa Bonet knows A LOT, but she has Zoe, who is making a name for herself and as a mother I am sure she doesn't want to make things more difficult for her. I bet in the privacy of her home she is has spilled all the tea to anyone who would listen.

[Spartan Girl]

Ugh they played bits from his interview this morning, going on about how his release was “a big step for all people of color that had been wrongfully accused.” 

I won’t even dignify that with a response.

[biakbiak]

27 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Lisa Bonet knows A LOT, but she has Zoe, who is making a name for herself and as a mother I am sure she doesn't want to make things more difficult for her. I bet in the privacy of her home she is has spilled all the tea to anyone who would listen.

To your point she shouldn’t have to jump into anything. My issue (and I think you agree) with Phylicia is she didn’t need to say shit but she did and we should call her out on it.

It reminds me of when Charisma Carpenter spoke out about Joss Whedon, her issues were basically all about things that happened on Angel but so many more people called for SMG to speak out than David Boreanaz! They both did but so many people parsed her language and than slobbered all over DB’s later and short statement. Demanding more for women to apologize for the men they worked with than their male counterparts is not only ridiculous it’s misogyny.

Edited July 1, 2021 by biakbiak

[peachmangosteen]

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Ugh they played bits from his interview this morning, going on about how his release was “a big step for all people of color that had been wrongfully accused.” 

[ifionlyknew]

16 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Ugh they played bits from his interview this morning, going on about how his release was “a big step for all people of color that had been wrongfully accused.” 

Already trying to change the narrative. He was not exonerated.  This needs to be said every time anyone says differently.  He was found guilty based on the evidence.  The prosecutor's fuck up has nothing to do with that.

[Blergh]

I waited so I could cool off before posting:

 

If nothing else, Mr. Cosby proved himself to be an admitted rapist who DID serve two years in prison  and not even this grotesque reversal of justice can erase that (and I'm still not watching any more Cosby shows until his, Mrs. Cosby's or Miss Rashad's demises so there's no chance of them gaining any monies from me). 

Regardless, I feel VERY badly for all the victims and their loved ones who had to witness this happening (and I'm furious that such a messed up deal had ever occurred ) . I only hope they can somehow take comfort that they were listened to and believed after so many decades of willful denial by so many. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Ugh they played bits from his interview this morning, going on about how his release was “a big step for all people of color that had been wrongfully accused.” 

I won’t even dignify that with a response.

That's atrocious. How is he wrongfully accused when he admitted it? He admitting to giving women drugs without their consent or knowledge and then having sex with them without their prior consent or knowledge. That is a crime in the 21st century. 

This reminds me so much of the sentence "Black men are not disgusted by the white patriarchy, just their place in it." This is a prime example of that idea- and as a black woman I have seen this attitude too many times (thankfully in my own personal life not to the extent of violence and assault). Janet Hubert spoke the truth.

[catlover79]

That was a wonderful post, @Blergh. I agree with everything you said. While I am furious about the events of yesterday, he is ruined forever in the court of public opinion. We the public see what he is. That will never change.

[biakbiak]

Just now, catlover79 said:

he is ruined forever in the court of public opinion. We the public see what he is. That will never change.

You have more faith than I do. I literally think he could easily sell out several venues if he chose to  and I imagine he will be invited to some interviews. 

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, Blergh said:

I waited so I could cool off before posting:

 

If nothing else, Mr. Cosby proved himself to be an admitted rapist who DID serve two years in prison  and not even this grotesque reversal of justice can erase that (and I'm still not watching any more Cosby shows until his, Mrs. Cosby's or Miss Rashad's demises so there's no chance of them gaining any monies from me). 

Regardless, I feel VERY badly for all the victims and their loved ones who had to witness this happening (and I'm furious that such a messed up deal had ever occurred ) . I only hope they can somehow take comfort that they were listened to and believed after so many decades of willful denial by so many. 

What a lovely post. I too feel awfully for the victims. He did serve two years, which isnt enough but it was something.

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

You have more faith than I do. I literally think he could easily sell out several venues if he chose to  and I imagine he will be invited to some interviews. 

Yeah I could see that happening as well.

[Chaos Theory]

Unfortunately in Bill Cosby’s case there are far too many people (women included) that are of the opinion that anyone who went to his apartment and took drugs knew what they were getting into.    If they took drugs alone in a man’s apartment they were essentially consenting to sex.    

 

I have seen this time and time again in many forms.    Then the whole statute of limitations thing which a lot of people don’t get.   A lot of people (again even women) don’t get how rape effects a woman’s psyche and maybe the first thing they think of doing isn’t going to the police.   Maybe they actually want to forget about it and do until the great guy who becomes master of the universe enters their life again a decade later and throws them for a loop.  

Edited July 1, 2021 by Chaos Theory

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Unfortunately in Bill Cosby’s case there are far too many people (women included) that are of the opinion that anyone who went to his apartment and took drugs knew what they were getting into.    If they took drugs alone in a man’s apartment they were essentially consenting to sex.    

Yes. There are people that believe that. There are people that believe an adult woman, being alone in a hotel room/apartment with an unrelated man was consenting to sex with that man. But in the 21st century, LEGALLY that doesn't hold. A weapon or utmost force isn't needed any more to "prove" a lack of consent.

And Bill Cosby isnt an idiot- an awful rapist, yes, but an idiot no. If the women were "so game" for whatever sexual activities (with or without drugs) why not tell them "hey I am giving you x" and they would say "SURE! such fun times", THAT would've been consent. I think he got off on the power trip of having these unconscious women at his disposal. And because of poor character and a good healthy dose of sexism, because the women agreed to go to his hotel room alone knowing he was married they "deserved it"- disgusting.

[catlover79]

37 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

You have more faith than I do. I literally think he could easily sell out several venues if he chose to  and I imagine he will be invited to some interviews. 

OK, the majority of the public. I agree that he probably could sell out venues if he chose to tour again. I don't think he will because of his age and health, but that remains to be seen. He's as bad as OJ with his smugness and gloating. Disgusting.

[biakbiak]

1 minute ago, catlover79 said:

He's as bad as OJ with his smugness and gloating. Disgusting.

Let’s hope he tries to rob some people in Vegas! 

[ifionlyknew]

7 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

He's as bad as OJ with his smugness and gloating. Disgusting.

This exactly.  Cosby has not shown one ounce of contrition.  If he could get away with it again I have no doubt he would try.

[possibilities]

Since it was his work that blew this story up in the press years ago, I thought maybe Hannibal Buress might have a comment, but so far his twitter does not say anything about this.

Elie Mystal's does, though:

 

[Lugal]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I remember when he fired Lisa Bonet for being pregnant- I was a little girl at the time and that seemed WEIRD to me. Why not just hide her behind a box or something?

I always thought it was because he was sanctimonious moralizer.

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Allison Mack is an interesting case for me.  I think all of Keith's cult members were groomed in some way to think Keith was the bestest thing ever before they ever met with him.

All of this is to say that I think he tapped into something she wanted to do.  She did this because she wanted to please him. Unlike his other victims, however, I don't think she was made to feel like she needed to please him.  She was on a long running TV show.  She had status.

With Allison Mack, it's one of those questions of where does the brainwashing end and something else begin.  Kind of like the Stanford Prison Experiment writ large.  She was clearly an insecure person (which was why she got involved with NXIVM in the first place) which made her easy to manipulate.  Then we see what happens when someone screws with someone else's psyche and then unleashes them upon the world.

[janie jones]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Further evidence that Cosby's anger and obsession with her "non marital pregnancy" had nothing to do with industry standards, money, or general social attitudes but his own vendetta towards her. 

Lisa Bonet knows A LOT, but she has Zoe, who is making a name for herself and as a mother I am sure she doesn't want to make things more difficult for her. I bet in the privacy of her home she is has spilled all the tea to anyone who would listen.

I'm confused. The top paragraph is about Lisa Bonet, right? I looked it up and Wikipedia says that Zoe Kravitz was born over a year after Lisa Bonet and Lenny Kravitz got married. Did she have another kid before Zoe that Wikipedia doesn't mention? Are the dates on Wikipedia wrong (it's the same info on the Lisa Bonet and the Lenny Kravitz pages)? Did people not know they were married, so Cosby thought she was pregnant out of wedlock? Is it that it would have been a non-marital pregnancy on the show?

[biakbiak]

20 minutes ago, janie jones said:

I'm confused. The top paragraph is about Lisa Bonet, right? I looked it up and Wikipedia says that Zoe Kravitz was born over a year after Lisa Bonet and Lenny Kravitz got married. Did she have another kid before Zoe that Wikipedia doesn't mention? Are the dates on Wikipedia wrong (it's the same info on the Lisa Bonet and the Lenny Kravitz pages)? Did people not know they were married, so Cosby thought she was pregnant out of wedlock? Is it that it would have been a non-marital pregnancy on the show?

One at the time Lenny was going by Romeo Blue so lots of people thought it was a fly by night marriage. He didn’t want her character, a non wedded, Denise to even be speculated by the audience as being pregnant during the second year of A Different World, so he fired her from that show which she was the star of at the time. She fulfilled her contract by having her character dropping out of college and returning to The Cosby Show a married pregnant woman who’s husband was in the military so was gone a lot leaving the Huxtables with her flighty self and a delightful three year old step daughter played by Raven Simone! 

eta: I did that all from my memories from the time period so she might not have shown up pregnant on her return to the Cosby show but Martin and three year old Olivia were definitely present and Lenny was definitely going by Romeo Blue!

Edited July 1, 2021 by biakbiak

[catlover79]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

Since it was his work that blew this story up in the press years ago, I thought maybe Hannibal Buress might have a comment, but so far his twitter does not say anything about this.

Elie Mystal's does, though:

 

I love Elie Mystal. His editorial on the E. Jean Carroll case is well worth reading.

[GaT]

21 hours ago, kittykat said:

And people wonder why there's a whole movement to overhaul the entire criminal justice system.  In facepalming irony this was announced the same hour as Allison Macks conviction.

In this case, it's just two idiot prosecutors, one who made the deal, & one who didn't honor it. Both of them cared more about being the guy who got Cosby convicted of something. 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, janie jones said:

I'm confused. The top paragraph is about Lisa Bonet, right? I looked it up and Wikipedia says that Zoe Kravitz was born over a year after Lisa Bonet and Lenny Kravitz got married. Did she have another kid before Zoe that Wikipedia doesn't mention? Are the dates on Wikipedia wrong (it's the same info on the Lisa Bonet and the Lenny Kravitz pages)? Did people not know they were married, so Cosby thought she was pregnant out of wedlock? Is it that it would have been a non-marital pregnancy on the show?

Hi- that was Zoe, but Lisa and Lenny weren't married until after she was born, the date is wrong on Zoe's birth (I believe- do not quote me!). Phylicia Rashad had her baby while filming The Cosby Show and to hide her stomach they put her under a comforter and said she had the flu (or a back problem or something).

Yeah Cosby had it out for Lisa Bonet.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Hi- that was Zoe, but Lisa and Lenny weren't married until after she was born, the date is wrong on Zoe's birth (I believe- do not quote me!). Phylicia Rashad had her baby while filming The Cosby Show and to hide her stomach they put her under a comforter and said she had the flu (or a back problem or something).

Yeah Cosby had it out for Lisa Bonet.

No, Lisa and Lenny were married in 1987 and Zoe was born December 1988. Wikipedia has a link to a birth announcement. Interestingly, the article says that Lisa was expected to return to A Different World so her firing was announced after she had the baby. 

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, Dani said:

No, Lisa and Lenny were married in 1987 and Zoe was born December 1988. Wikipedia has a link to a birth announcement. Interestingly, the article says that Lisa was expected to return to A Different World so her firing was announced after she had the baby. 

Thank you so much- I was wrong! I thought Zoe was born in 1987!

My apologizes to @janie jones  everyone else my timeline was way off. 

 

[Hiyo]

 

[Nicmar]

On 6/30/2021 at 6:42 AM, merylinkid said:

Alison Mack was the mastermind behind the branding.   No way she gets off easy no matter how much she cooperated.   She did the branding, she recruited slaves, she was very involved.   Think Ghislaine Maxwell level of involvement.

She is only got 3 years, from the article I read..

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

No, Lisa and Lenny were married in 1987 and Zoe was born December 1988. Wikipedia has a link to a birth announcement. Interestingly, the article says that Lisa was expected to return to A Different World so her firing was announced after she had the baby. 

I am upset that the birth announcement uses his given name!!! To those that weren’t around I promise I am not lying he did go by Romeo Blue!!! I refuse to allow this revisionist history😆

Also for those who weren’t born at the time, yes they were as breathtakingly beautiful a couple as you could imagine! 

[SunnyBeBe]

I was confused about Cosby’s statement yesterday. It seemed that he could barely walk, needed 2 person assist to get out of car and walking, appeared disoriented, and didn’t seem to have teeth in.   He looked to another person to answer questions.  Later I heard a statement....when was that recorded?  

[bobalina]

4 hours ago, biakbiak said:

One at the time Lenny was going by Romeo Blue so lots of people thought it was a fly by night marriage. He didn’t want her character, a non wedded, Denise to even be speculated by the audience as being pregnant during the second year of A Different World, so he fired her from that show which she was the star of at the time. She fulfilled her contract by having her character dropping out of college and returning to The Cosby Show a married pregnant woman who’s husband was in the military so was gone a lot leaving the Huxtables with her flighty self and a delightful three year old step daughter played by Raven Simone! 

eta: I did that all from my memories from the time period so she might not have shown up pregnant on her return to the Cosby show but Martin and three year old Olivia were definitely present and Lenny was definitely going by Romeo Blue!

Denise returned for a couple shows,goes off to Africa and comes back later with Olivia and Martin. She's not pregnant until the last show and then only in a phone call.

The truly creepy thing is Martin makes a point of letting Cliff know that Denise was a virgin on their wedding night.

[catlover79]

Howard University responded to Ms. Rashad's tweet:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/howard-says-dean-phylicia-rashad-143134352.html

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, catlover79 said:

Howard University responded to Ms. Rashad's tweet:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/howard-says-dean-phylicia-rashad-143134352.html

Completely unsurprising. 

[catlover79]

31 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Completely unsurprising. 

Yeah, nothing to see here!

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Also for those who weren’t born at the time, yes they were as breathtakingly beautiful a couple as you could imagine! 

They really were. It's nice that they've stayed friends all these years.

[Vermicious Knid]

TMZ says he can earn income from speaking appearances, just like OJ.

Quote

TMZ spoke with a major player in the booking biz who tells us ... even though the market will be very limited for Cosby, he believes the disgraced comedian will eventually be able to bank $10-15k per public appearance -- and possibly up to $20k for speaking engagements.

Our booking source points to O.J. Simpson as a precedent, saying that despite what he was accused of and found liable for -- killing 2 people -- he still made cash for events afterward. Same will be true for Cosby, according to our source.

Sabrina Le Beouf gave a talk at my high school, at the height of Cosby Show fame. This is not something she did often, or ever really, but she was dating the son of one of the teachers, who got her to come. She talked about being Cajun and not perceived as quite white or black. Because we didn't have the concept of 'mutliracial' yet.

[BetterButter]

‘I Hope He… Breaks His F*cking Neck’: Mickey Rourke Recalled A Harrowing Story An Ex Told Him About Her Meeting With Bill Cosby At His Home

[Hiyo]

Ghislaine Maxwell’s lawyers cite Cosby case in bid to have charges dropped.

Lawyers claim Florida plea deal should protect socialite but tactic is unlikely to work.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Hiyo

[JustHereForFood]

Oh, how lovely. Let's not view this shit as a gross miscarriage of justice, but as an instruction manual how to keep all scum out of prison. And hey, why don't Polanski and Spacey get them all some movie roles while we're at it?

[Wiendish Fitch]

Okay, remember how a few days ago I snarked about giving shitty people second chances?

THAT WAS A JOKE!

Is this my fault?! Have I opened a can of worms or something?!?

 

Edited July 3, 2021 by Wiendish Fitch

[DearEvette]

On 7/1/2021 at 9:27 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Ugh they played bits from his interview this morning, going on about how his release was “a big step for all people of color that had been wrongfully accused.” 

I swear this site needs a 'steam coming out of your ears angry' emoji.

I hate this shit.  No. This is not a big step for all the people of color who had been wrongfully accused.  For other POC  whose constitutional rights have been shat upon, this will make no difference. They don't have the money to hire high priced competent lawyers to pursue it.  Also he was not wrongfully accused.  He may have been wrongfully prosecuted, but he was not wrongfully accused.

And finally, I hate when black celebs who distance themselves from the black community when they were chasing white clout, suddenly go running back into the bosom of the community when they need support.  Bill with his respectability politics bullshit which did in fact turn many young black comedians against him so much so it was a black comedian who continually banged the drum against him until someone finally heard.

[biakbiak]

According to Cosby he is participating in an almost finished documentary produced by Lionsgate.