S05.E10: I've Got This

[himela]

I skipped all the scenes with Milo. I can't physically watch any more of him. Other than that I liked this episode. We found out more stuff about everyone's current lives which I always appreciate. They have made Maddison be this sweet, amazing girl. They surely want her to stay. I hope not. I find her to be really blunt and boring as an actress and as a character. Tess was wonderful, so was Deja. I loved that Beth decided her mom is staying with them. Also no talk about covid which is always good. A good episode for me.

Edited March 18, 2021 by himela

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I also wish that Kate had said something when Toby started yelling at Madison, isn't she Kate's best friend? Shouldn't she try to stand up for her?

Kate has never been as nice to Madison as Madison has been to her - she's actually treated Madison like shit a number of times.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I also wish that Kate had said something when Toby started yelling at Madison, isn't she Kate's best friend? Shouldn't she try to stand up for her?

TIU fails at the basic "show, don't tell" aspect of any good work of fiction regarding Madison and Kate's "friendship." Besides one party that Madison planned for Kate and one lunch date that I remember, they barely show us how Kate and Madison are BFFs. It's mentioned that they are friends but we almost never even see them talking. There was a conversation between Toby and Kevin at the dinner but not one between Kate and Madison. There should have been multiple conversations between them based on the fact that they were expecting babies around the same time at the very least.

The more I think about it, the more Toby's behavior at the dinner annoys me. He's allowed to have feelings, express those feelings and set boundaries but he should not be rude and hurtful. If he's so emotionally fragile that he can't control himself, he shouldn't even be attending the dinner. Let Kate go alone and watch the babies so she can have a break. That way, he can relieve someone's stress rather than add to it. Sometimes you have to suck it up and sit through a dinner when you are feeling bad in order to be kind to the people around you. Especially if you are not willing to share with them what's making you feel bad. That's just being a decent human being. Yes, Toby has feelings but so do Kevin, Madison and Kate. His feelings aren't more important than theirs. That dinner was meant to be a treat that everyone was looking forward to during a pandemic with limited socializing and after all the hard work that comes with new babies and Toby shit all over it.

A lot of comments have been pointing out Kevin's largesse but Kevin isn't a mind reader. He didn't know Toby had lost his job. It's easy to put your foot in your mouth when you don't have all the information. Offering someone you want to spend time with a vacation spot, buying someone an expensive, but affordable to him, baby gift and offering to share child care are really thoughtful gestures in my opinion. If Toby is uncomfortable with it, all he had to say was "Thank you for the offer but Kate and I have that covered." Instead, he lit into Kevin's lifestyle and even said something along the lines that the "nanny was doing all the hard work" instead of Madison. Literally while Madison was nursing a baby. Poor Madison can't even sit down to eat without doing, yes Toby, the hard work of nursing and Toby's attacking her. Plus she's the one who laid out the whole sushi spread for them while Kevin and Toby were sitting on their asses smoking cigars.

And that's just how rude he was to Kevin and Madison. What about Kate? He accused her, in front of other people no less, of betraying him by telling them that he'd lost his job when he asked her not to. He just assumed the worst of her. He didn't take her aside and ask her or even ask her at the table. Just accused and made everyone uncomfortable. So rude. To sum up Toby is

[debraran]

Toby found out so close to dinner about his job he didn't even have time to tell Kate. She built him up (not a bad thing) that he would get it and rah rah and then "boom" it was over.  I can see him being depressed. Kevin going on about a bassinet, it might be hot some places but I don't know anyone who had babies the last few years that asked for one. (cost?)  Toby was snarky and went on too long but the money talk could have been said once and Toby and Kate would know Kevin was there and let it go. If it was just him and Kate, maybe he'd be less scared but they have 2 babies and that's scary.

They mention Covid on TV but never unemployment payments and the extra unemployment they gave, stimulus, food cards or other help. I don't expect them to be realistic overall but most people do get help of some kind early on.

[MBayGal]

23 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Yes! that was my first thought.  Especially after they got robbed and Randall freaked out about home security.  Has he forgotten already?

no, only the writers have forgotten.

[Alexander Pope]

On 3/17/2021 at 2:24 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I think that Kevin was just deliriously happy at his new situation and wanted to share his joy. He's not used to feeling this way, and was not reading the room.

Kevin should also have thought twice about rambling on to Toby of all people about how he was going to get a dad bod!

[Mrs Shibbles]

On 3/17/2021 at 1:09 PM, LexieLily said:

In a few episodes Tess or Deja can try to sneak out of the house and Phylicia Rashad can give her Claire Huxtable Big Fun With The Wretched speech. 

 

5 hours ago, Alexander Pope said:

I think that is Phylicia's super power! she learned it after all those years on the Cosby Show! also if you want to see kids who are really out of line and awful to their mom, watch BETTER THINGS.  I love the show but often hate the kids.

Did anyone catch the Malcolm-Jamal Warner cameo on the TV at Randall and Beth’s house?  

[Cosmocrush]

15 minutes ago, Mrs Shibbles said:

Did anyone catch the Malcolm-Jamal Warner cameo on the TV at Randall and Beth’s house?  

Oh good catch!   I've already deleted it from my DVR but that's funny.  

[PRgal]

On 3/17/2021 at 4:24 PM, Leeds said:

The interviewer specifically says, "You're our top candidate."

The interviewer may have said that to everyone (who asks).  And the comment Toby made about not wearing pants might have been taken badly.  It might not be the sort of humour that is welcome at the company, and thus Toby not being a good fit.  

[MBayGal]

I FF'd through all of Jack's scenes because I no longer give one f... about the guy who has been dead for most of the series. Nor do I care how his experiences are being lived again by his children.  

As for Malik's situation, why should he need his 15-y-o girlfriend's input on what he should do about the baby's mother?  They are teenagers in love, not a mature engaged couple. He and his parents need to do what is best for the child and fair to the mother, not what will make Deja happy.  Has the mom never had any contact with her child, even supervised visitation? Asking Randall, who never knew his birth parents as a child, for his thoughts, seemed reasonable, although Randall also had the challenge of being adopted by a white family living in a white neighborhood, so many differences. 

I think Kevin was being caring and generous to offer a snoo as a baby gift.  But as for a family compound and endless vacations together, I think Kevin had good intentions, but I would find that smothering. Having a vacation cabin that everyone could use as they want would be one thing, and taking some vacations together would be nice. Still I wouldn't want to be expected to spend all my time with the relatives and their kids any more than I would want my mother or MIL moving in with me (unless she needed care that I was able to provide.) Raising three children together in one family is different than two couples with perhaps different parenting styles and values raising three children in close contact. Plus Jack is an outlier in that scenario.

Kate and her job--how old are these babies now?  A few weeks or maybe a month?  Does she get free child care for both at this school?  Otherwise, I can't see how this is a good plan, if Toby is home caring for both of them while applying for jobs. And if he gets one, her job isn't likely to pay enough to pay for child care. In any case, I think it was wrong for her to take the job without discussing the logistics with him.  

[Crs97]

I like Kevin and Madison together.  I liked that Kate thanked Rebecca for specific things she knows Rebecca did.  It wasn’t a general thanks to both parents, but acknowledging Rebecca’s homemade costumes and parties.  Rebecca’s response being specific times when Kate has been strong was also lovely.

My favorite exchange was Rebecca asking if it was a good time to talk, Jack saying no, and Rebecca saying good and talking.  That made me laugh.  My mom took care of the day-to-day finances while Dad dealt with investments and long-term stuff.

I somewhat blame Kate for the blowup.  Kevin offered his help, Toby said they were fine, and the conversation could have ended.  Instead, Kate kept it going when she mentioned that she could go back to work.  That was not a conversation for the dinner party.  Toby was out of line in his dismissive response to her and then to Madison.  I was impressed that Kevin stayed calm.

It may not be in Malibu, but I think Kevin got a little bit of his compound dream with the house and cabin in Pa.

[bros402]

When the girls were fighting over the TV, were they watching The Resident? I am pretty sure I saw Dr. Austen's bushy beard.

[elang4]

To be fair though, Toby immediately apologised to Madison.

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, debraran said:

They mention Covid on TV but never unemployment payments and the extra unemployment they gave, stimulus, food cards or other help. I don't expect them to be realistic overall but most people do get help of some kind early on.

Not if Toby made "too much" money in the previous year because the first relief bill was based on the taxes paid the year before. You are right but I guess that would be too much for the writers to unpack

[debraran]

12 minutes ago, circumvent said:

Not if Toby made "too much" money in the previous year because the first relief bill was based on the taxes paid the year before. You are right but I guess that would be too much for the writers to unpack

For stimulus but not unemployment. I think along with myself, when furloughed or laid off, members of my family and coworkers all needed it. I benefited from the extra 600 which lasted until the summer, now 300 a week I think more.  I find that not mentioning help, he's unemployed one week and dipping in savings, a bit much. It will be tight but with 2 kids and no income, they will qualify for a lot right now. Kevin never needed it, Madison seems to come from money from cars etc. she had but I'm sure Toby has and Kate.  Kate's job wont be too much money and part time if I remember correctly but that wont matter for Toby.

Edited March 19, 2021 by debraran

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

For stimulus but not unemployment. I think along with myself, when furloughed or laid off, members of my family and coworkers all needed it. I benefited from the extra 600 which lasted until the summer, now 300 a week I think more.  I find that not mentioning help, he's unemployed one week and dipping in savings, a bit much. It will be tight but with 2 kids and no income, they will qualify for a lot right now. Kevin never needed it, Madison seems to come from money from cars etc. she had but I'm sure Toby has and Kate.  Kate's job wont be too much money and part time if I remember correctly but that wont matter for Toby.

That's fair. I didn't think about UI

[Boo Boo]

16 hours ago, himela said:

I skipped all the scenes with Milo. I can't physically watch any more of him. Other than that I liked this episode. We found out more stuff about everyone's current lives which I always appreciate. They have made Maddison be this sweet, amazing girl. They surely want her to stay. I hope not. I find her to be really blunt and boring as an actress and as a character. Tess was wonderful, so was Deja. I loved that Beth decided her mom is staying with them. Also no talk about covid which is always good. A good episode for me.

i have a difficult time watching him as well.  I have never watched him in anything else, but his voice always sounds like he's purposefully trying to put it in a lower register and it annoys me.  

[Mrs Shibbles]

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

When the girls were fighting over the TV, were they watching The Resident? I am pretty sure I saw Dr. Austen's bushy beard.

Yes!  That’s what my cameo post was about above.  Dr. Austin is played Malcolm-Jamal Warner, who played Phylicia Rashad’s son on The Cosby Show :).

Inthought that was a nice touch!

[Ohiopirate02]

15 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

TIU fails at the basic "show, don't tell" aspect of any good work of fiction regarding Madison and Kate's "friendship." Besides one party that Madison planned for Kate and one lunch date that I remember, they barely show us how Kate and Madison are BFFs. It's mentioned that they are friends but we almost never even see them talking. There was a conversation between Toby and Kevin at the dinner but not one between Kate and Madison. There should have been multiple conversations between them based on the fact that they were expecting babies around the same time at the very least.

Kate continues to be the least developed main character of any TV show I have ever watched.  Ever since the showrunners realized that forcing Chrissy Metz to undergo weight loss surgery for a plot was not a good look, the writers have floundered with the character.  Couple that with them shoving Randall down our throats, and there is no time for any Kate story to develop.  You're right, there was ample room to show the audience her friendship with Madison while they were both expecting children, but we got nothing.  Laurel was more important than Kate.  So is Jack.  The writers don't care about her.  

[smartymarty]

Quote

I have never been married, but should both spouses be involved in that?

My father handed over his paycheck to my SAHM who handled all the finances, giving my dad cash at the beginning of each week. This in a marriage that started in 1958. Then again, a friend who married in the last 1990s felt that because he earned the money, he made the big financial decisions (she could only spend below $2,000 without consulting him first). They divorced. I married in 2002. I handle the bills, my husband handles the investments. Every couple is different, and it doesn't matter the time period. The wealthy Victorians had the wives handling large households of family and servants.

[smartymarty]

21 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I also wish that Kate had said something when Toby started yelling at Madison, isn't she Kate's best friend? Shouldn't she try to stand up for her?

And though Madison is handling twins, Toby had a point about the nanny. Kate and Toby also have two children, and though one is not a newborn anymore, he is blind. Kate, of course, is not breast-feeding. But considering the nanny, I wondered whether Kevin and Madison should have offered to bring dinner over to Kate and Toby's house so that they would not have to bring their kids along.

 

20 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

If he's so emotionally fragile that he can't control himself, he shouldn't even be attending the dinner.

Oh please. So he lost it. Remember he only found out about not getting the job just before dinner. And he apologized before they even left. He acted like a human being.

As for Kevin wanting "everyone" to live together at a family compound, note that he's defining family as the people related to him. Madison, Toby and Beth have families too. It's the world revolving around the Pearsons once again.

 

19 hours ago, debraran said:

They mention Covid on TV but never unemployment payments and the extra unemployment they gave, stimulus, food cards or other help. I don't expect them to be realistic overall but most people do get help of some kind early on.

Many states cap unemployment, so somebody making, say, six figures, would not be collecting that amount in unemployment. The thought, of course, is that those people have savings to rely on. But Toby may not have been eligible for everything.

Hated Randall's reply to Malik. The correct answer, IMHO, is that a child can never have too many people loving her. If Malik feels that Jennifer is really serious and will follow through, then it's something he should allow, starting slowly at first. What does not matter is that Randall wished he knew his bio-mother before she died. Randall was looking at things from the child's point of view rather than the parent's. The question before him was whether Malik should allow someone who previously rejected the child to now see the child.

Rebecca handling the finances won't help if she lets Jack keep carrying a credit card. (By the way, my husband participated in these roulettes except it was 20 guys drinking in a bar all day, with ultimately one having to pay the whole tab. What a stupid game.)

[debraran]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

And though Madison is handling twins, Toby had a point about the nanny. Kate and Toby also have two children, and though one is not a newborn anymore, he is blind. Kate, of course, is not breast-feeding. But considering the nanny, I wondered whether Kevin and Madison should have offered to bring dinner over to Kate and Toby's house so that they would not have to bring their kids along.

 

Oh please. So he lost it. Remember he only found out about not getting the job just before dinner. And he apologized before they even left. He acted like a human being.

As for Kevin wanting "everyone" to live together at a family compound, note that he's defining family as the people related to him. Madison, Toby and Beth have families too. It's the world revolving around the Pearsons once again.

 

Many states cap unemployment, so somebody making, say, six figures, would not be collecting that amount in unemployment. The thought, of course, is that those people have savings to rely on. But Toby may not have been eligible for everything.

Hated Randall's reply to Malik. The correct answer, IMHO, is that a child can never have too many people loving her. If Malik feels that Jennifer is really serious and will follow through, then it's something he should allow, starting slowly at first. What does not matter is that Randall wished he knew his bio-mother before she died. Randall was looking at things from the child's point of view rather than the parent's. The question before him was whether Malik should allow someone who previously rejected the child to now see the child.

Rebecca handling the finances won't help if she lets Jack keep carrying a credit card. (By the way, my husband participated in these roulettes except it was 20 guys drinking in a bar all day, with ultimately one having to pay the whole tab. What a stupid game.)

I agree, re the credit card. Just take turns if you want to treat.  Women would never do this. lol

Re unemployment, they do cap it but they weren't living high of the hog. I got paid more on unemployment with extra cash added (sad being lower paid that was the case) but the therapists I worked with who were furloughed were capped at 80.000 or 50,000 but still livable. I'm just saying it wasn't mentioned. Everyone in my family who lost a job or were furloughed from min wage to managers etc, got something. No money coming in is no money coming in. I just meant they could pay the rent and grocery shop or whatever.

I agree, it would be nice to not have new babies out so soon especially since we really can't see them but I think they felt 2 young babies outdid one. ; )  I really don't get the nanny but to each his/her own. I didn't find the need, not working at a job outside the home, she should get into a rhythm.

[Leeds]

On 3/18/2021 at 2:07 PM, himela said:

I skipped all the scenes with Milo. I can't physically watch any more of him. 

Yeah, it's really time they killed the character off.

[Dreamboat Annie]

Beth's mother was being a total bitch.  I am a fan of Phylicia Rashad, but Beth's mother was being a total bitch.  When you are a guest in someone's home, whether you stayed with the kids while their parents were away, doesn't matter, you do not get to judge.  Anything.  You conform to their way of doing things while you are there.  You do not criticize a single thing, and heaven forbid you do not judge.  For a mother or a mother-in-law, you do not say a word.  You do not offer your advice unless asked.  You display your very short memory meaning there are no past grievances to air.  You do this because having contact and a relationship with your child and your grandchildren is very important to you.  You're so nice that they actually want you to stick around.  You are there to help and if you can't do that then off you go.  She was picking on the kids, she was picking on Beth.  She was staring down her nose at Randall (I know!  I would, too, lol, but it's not her house!).  With that rant over, I can say that I felt very sorry for her when she was describing her loneliness and how quiet her own house had become.  I'm glad she's staying but I really hope she can be of help and not a judgmental bitch.  Beth telling Randall that his relatives have treated their house like "a Ramada Inn" and it's her turn now did make me laugh because it's true, but the difference is that I didn't see Randall's relatives being nasty at any time to anyone who lives there.

I'm still liking Madison a lot.  She obviously has her own money, her house is very nice for a single woman on her own, and she made it very clear to Kevin she wasn't asking for his involvement, financial or otherwise, it was his choice to be involved in any way he wanted.  She wanted to stay in her house where she was comfortable, and Kevin completely accepted that.  I think Madison and Kate's friendship was addressed, albeit a little swiftly and haphazardly.  But, they hugged and remarked how wild it was that they both had embarked on motherhood and had new born babies.  With this show, I have to assume many things happened off camera, like these two friends have been in constant contact (there are way many more examples of why I feel this way, not with Kate and Madison but others, but those are other episodes).  At first I thought it was very unfair of Kevin to offer up his (HER) home and their nanny and, consequently, Madison, to Kate and Toby for childcare, without even consulting Madison about it first.  Madison just had twins herself, and if it were me I would not have been on board for another two children to come into the fold to be taken care of on a full time basis.  But then I remembered what good friends Kate and Madison are, and that made all the difference.  Either that, or Madison really is very, very nice!

I think Kate is alive in the future.  At least, I hope she is.  But Kate and Toby are a couple who seem to have not found a way to work out their differences.  I could see Toby with Ellie.  Her wry one liners are just like his, and she seems just as stubborn or more so than Toby.  I hope not, though.  But Kate seemed to appreciate the nice attention she got from her next door neighbour - didn't he help her out by babysitting Jack at one point?  Hmmm... 

Okay here goes.  I should probably have put this in the unpopular opinions thread, lol, but it pertains to this episode.  I think Randall was right to talk to Malik about Jennifer.  I didn't see that he was not putting his daughter first by doing that.  He knows she's 15.  SHE'S 15.  That is not old enough to be serious about anyone or anything.  Deja has a boyfriend and she is as committed as any 15 year old would be, possibly more, but SHE'S 15.  Yes, there are many, many stories of high school sweethearts getting married and staying together 4ever (!), please spare me those accounts.  But if we've been shown anything, it's how upstanding and honourable Malik is.  That is why Deja will never be able to compete with the mother of his child.  No contest there.  Whether it's Malik professing his love for Deja as he goes back to Jennifer because he needs to "do the right thing for Janelle", or whether it's Deja telling him it's over because he should be with the mother of his child, this has break up written all over it.  Deja deserves so much better than someone who can only ever be half in, and Randall knows it.  It won't look bad on him that he was supportive.  

[bros402]

On 3/17/2021 at 7:18 PM, Empress1 said:

My friend works for a Fortune 100 company and she said everybody gave up on any kind of business anything dress code the second remote work started. Hoodies, t-shirts, unshaved faces, a lot of hats (men couldn’t get haircuts and women who covered the gray were self-conscious about their roots), probably some pants-less-ness. My friend wore her usual work clothes on the first day and for her first Zoom she was like “oh word? This is what we’re doing?” 

My dad is working for a Fortune 100 company for the duration of the pandemic (It's an... odd situation) he started there in November. People dressed comfortably.

Last week, they said that everyone must dress "professionally" during Zoom meetings - so now he has to wear a dress shirt whenever they have zoom meetings.

[Kindred Spirit]

In Kevin and Kate's defense: They're twins, and very used to being enmeshed in each other's business. When this show started, Kate was Kevin's very capable assistant. The writers don't make a big deal of it, but while Kevin was the Manny, Kate pretty much ran his life, and was well-compensated for it. They're accustomed to his taking care of both of them, financially. Which, I think, is partly where his instinct to throw money at the situation arose from. Heck, he and Madison may have tried the snoo because Kate and Toby had such success with it, with baby Jack. Or, it's entirely possible the manufacturer of the snoo gifted two to the Pearson twins. Lots of companies give their products to celebrities, hoping for an endorsement. Also, Kevin's very much caught up in the Hollywood arms' race, where his celebrity status is tied up in having what every other star has. Prime example is the nanny–he was very concerned about securing the woman whose loss caused Timberlake to cry, more because of what it said about Kevin's place in the pecking order than about her compatibility with Madison, or the twins, or their philosophy for raising a family. Which was part of why Madison wanted him to use the time he was away on the movie to think about what he really wanted. So, I don't know if this amazing nanny is the celebrity score or someone who's truly a good fit for Nicky, Franny and their parents, but she seemed to be doing a phenomenal job. And I could see where poor, beleaguered, entitled Toby saw what looked like seamless, effortless bliss in his brother-in-law's household and lost it. He didn't see what we saw in the early montage, where it appeared that Kevin and Madison are handling most days on their own, and the nanny may have been there specifically to allow a "date night"–where the babies weren't the entire focus for everyone, and the grown ups could have sushi and wine and Madison could wear a pretty dress, rather than cow pajamas, and both moms had an excuse to shower! The moms here will know better than I do, since I've never been pregnant, but I suspect this might have been Madison's first sushi since the twins were born, which might explain the lavishness of the spread, as well as being a treat for company. As I remember it from friends' pregnancies, sushi is prohibited while you're expecting.

As far as Haley staying home with Toby during the interview, rather than going to baby Jack's music class, I was thinking she might have been asleep when it was time to leave for class and both Toby and Kate know better than to risk waking a sleeping baby! She was certainly being an angel during Daddy's interview! Partly due to being rocked by Toby, probably, but also, maybe, because she got an uninterrupted nap. Or maybe Haley always stays home with Daddy during baby Jack's music time, so that Mommy can assist her brother, and allow him to get the most he can out of his class. 

I think I have more sympathy for Randall than many here do, but I saw his advice to Malik being very much exactly and precisely what the young man was asking for. Malik said that his parents wouldn't be open to allowing Jennifer back in Janelle's life, because of the custody battle, and Randall had more-or-less declared Deja off-limits as a subject of conversation, so Malik wanted to know Randall's opinion as someone who had grown up without knowing part of his heritage. All other factors aside, and knowing that he was very much loved and wanted, Randall was weighing in with the perspective of an adult who always had questions as a child. We've seen that he tried to find other people who could ruffle their tongues, that he tried to find Black male role models and that he's realizing that his need for a deep bond with the only parent he had left has caused echoes and implications to this day, and certainly drove him to therapy, initially. 

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, bros402 said:

My dad is working for a Fortune 100 company for the duration of the pandemic (It's an... odd situation) he started there in November. People dressed comfortably.

Last week, they said that everyone must dress "professionally" during Zoom meetings - so now he has to wear a dress shirt whenever they have zoom meetings.

That means someone took being "comfortable" way too far, and someone else complained to HR. It's always one or a few people who ruin a good thing for the entire company.

2 hours ago, Kindred Spirit said:

I suspect this might have been Madison's first sushi since the twins were born, which might explain the lavishness of the spread, as well as being a treat for company.

The sushi looked delicious, but I didn't think it was *that* lavish and was annoyed that Toby made such a big deal out of it. I don't have anything close to Kevin's money, but I've ordered similar spreads when entertaining out-of-town friends or family whom I don't see often. Nobody's ever gotten their panties in a bunch about it like Toby did. Everyone understands that it's a special occasion and not something any of us do on a regular basis.

[BetyBee]

I think Kevin's about to open his own Ramada Inn. First guest - Uncle Nicky. 

[ams1001]

Maybe I missed something, but I don't understand why Malik would have had to "fight" so hard for custody of his daughter. Her mother wanted to give her up for adoption, her father wanted to raise her himself, and had his parents' support in doing that, and there doesn't seem to be anything in his or his parents' history that would suggest he/they are unfit as parents or that their house would be a bad environment for her. What is the fight? If it was the other way around I doubt there'd be any question of whether Jennifer would keep her own child even if the father didn't want to be involved.

I'm getting ads for the Snoo everywhere, now. Thanks, TIU.

 

[smartymarty]

8 hours ago, Kindred Spirit said:

I think I have more sympathy for Randall than many here do, but I saw his advice to Malik being very much exactly and precisely what the young man was asking for.

Respectfully disagree. Does anyone need to be told that children want a relationship with their bio-parents? As Malik framed it, Jennifer now wanted to be a part when she earlier had wanted to let the baby be adopted and fought Malik keeping their daughter. All of that points to issues with Jennifer, not whether it would be nice for Janelle to have a relationship with her boi-mother. (I never got the sense that, in the future, Malik would not tell Janelle who her bio-mother was.)

[PRgal]

12 hours ago, Kindred Spirit said:

 

As far as Haley staying home with Toby during the interview, rather than going to baby Jack's music class, I was thinking she might have been asleep when it was time to leave for class and both Toby and Kate know better than to risk waking a sleeping baby! She was certainly being an angel during Daddy's interview! Partly due to being rocked by Toby, probably, but also, maybe, because she got an uninterrupted nap. Or maybe Haley always stays home with Daddy during baby Jack's music time, so that Mommy can assist her brother, and allow him to get the most he can out of his class. 

 

Or there's a capacity limit.  Note how Kate said she couldn't be a volunteer anymore because of COVID.  She's probably only allowed in for drop-off and pick-up, which is likely why she got a job there.

[Aloeonatable]

On 3/18/2021 at 8:59 PM, MBayGal said:

 

I FF'd through all of Jack's scenes because I no longer give one f... about the guy who has been dead for most of the series. Nor do I care how his experiences are being lived again by his childre

 

Isn't this the premise of the show? How Jack's life, and early death, effected his family. 

[madmax]

20 hours ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Beth's mother was being a total bitch.  I am a fan of Phylicia Rashad, but Beth's mother was being a total bitch.  When you are a guest in someone's home, whether you stayed with the kids while their parents were away, doesn't matter, you do not get to judge.  Anything.  You conform to their way of doing things while you are there.  You do not criticize a single thing, and heaven forbid you do not judge.  For a mother or a mother-in-law, you do not say a word.  You do not offer your advice unless asked.  You display your very short memory meaning there are no past grievances to air.  

 

I'd like to live in that dream world....

Edited March 21, 2021 by madmax

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, madmax said:

I'd like to live in that dream world....

Same.  I can relate to a lot of the generational (and possibly cultural) clash like Beth has with her mom.  

[bros402]

On 3/19/2021 at 9:45 AM, Mrs Shibbles said:

Yes!  That’s what my cameo post was about above.  Dr. Austin is played Malcolm-Jamal Warner, who played Phylicia Rashad’s son on The Cosby Show :).

Inthought that was a nice touch!

I hadb't gotten to page 4 of the topic when I posted that, I wonder if that is why they did it?

On 3/19/2021 at 3:10 PM, smartymarty said:

And though Madison is handling twins, Toby had a point about the nanny. Kate and Toby also have two children, and though one is not a newborn anymore, he is blind. Kate, of course, is not breast-feeding. But considering the nanny, I wondered whether Kevin and Madison should have offered to bring dinner over to Kate and Toby's house so that they would not have to bring their kids along.

 

Oh please. So he lost it. Remember he only found out about not getting the job just before dinner. And he apologized before they even left. He acted like a human being.

As for Kevin wanting "everyone" to live together at a family compound, note that he's defining family as the people related to him. Madison, Toby and Beth have families too. It's the world revolving around the Pearsons once again.

 

Many states cap unemployment, so somebody making, say, six figures, would not be collecting that amount in unemployment. The thought, of course, is that those people have savings to rely on. But Toby may not have been eligible for everything.

Hated Randall's reply to Malik. The correct answer, IMHO, is that a child can never have too many people loving her. If Malik feels that Jennifer is really serious and will follow through, then it's something he should allow, starting slowly at first. What does not matter is that Randall wished he knew his bio-mother before she died. Randall was looking at things from the child's point of view rather than the parent's. The question before him was whether Malik should allow someone who previously rejected the child to now see the child.

Rebecca handling the finances won't help if she lets Jack keep carrying a credit card. (By the way, my husband participated in these roulettes except it was 20 guys drinking in a bar all day, with ultimately one having to pay the whole tab. What a stupid game.)

Looks like the cap in CA is $450 a week. I cannot imagine Hailey is *that* old yet - maybe a month at most? Since Beth's mom has been with the girls since Randall & Beth went to New Orleans, which probably wasn't that long ago - let's assume Randall & Beth quarantined after their trip out of state, so it's been at least two weeks - I could see Beth's mom staying 1-2 weeks after Randall & Beth come back, just to spend some time with family, but more than that would seem a bit... awkward for a last minute trip.

Oh wait, Randall and Beth probably wouldn't quarantine because they are Pearsons and Pearsons can't get sick, only fire can harm True Pearsons.

21 hours ago, chocolatine said:

That means someone took being "comfortable" way too far, and someone else complained to HR. It's always one or a few people who ruin a good thing for the entire company.

Yeah, probably. From what my dad was saying, it was nobody in the calls he was in (Except maybe the guy whose parrot would sometimes fly onto his shoulder) - but must've been someone.

[Jeddah]

On 3/19/2021 at 3:10 PM, smartymarty said:

And though Madison is handling twins, Toby had a point about the nanny.

He said the nanny does “all the hard work.” I don’t think Toby has any idea what breastfeeding twins entails if he thinks Madison doesn’t do anything hard. And this is right after she gave birth to premature twins, wearing a mask during a pandemic, thinking she’d be all alone. Having a nanny makes things easier, but it doesn’t mean the parents don’t do anything hard. I don’t care how stressed he is. Only a jerk says something like that to a new mom who is literally breastfeeding a baby at the time.

[Empress1]

13 hours ago, bros402 said:

(Except maybe the guy whose parrot would sometimes fly onto his shoulder)

There's a funny clip video on YouTube of pets interrupting at-home workers. There's one where a guy's bird flies onto his head and the guy is clearly used to it because he just calmly takes the bird off his head and keeps it pushing, but the woman on the call with him is like "... I'm sorry," and then bursts out laughing. "It flew onto his head!" The bird-owner is like "All good!" and laughs along with her. It's great.

[Dreamboat Annie]

19 hours ago, madmax said:

I'd like to live in that dream world....

It's not a dream world for some of us.  It's just common sense and good manners mixed with a genuine desire to have good relationships with your children and grandchildren.  I guess my husband and I lucked out.  My mother and my mother-in-law are the kindest, most helpful, least judgmental and least interfering people I have ever known.  

[bros402]

10 hours ago, Empress1 said:

There's a funny clip video on YouTube of pets interrupting at-home workers. There's one where a guy's bird flies onto his head and the guy is clearly used to it because he just calmly takes the bird off his head and keeps it pushing, but the woman on the call with him is like "... I'm sorry," and then bursts out laughing. "It flew onto his head!" The bird-owner is like "All good!" and laughs along with her. It's great.

That was a good one. 

Birds are hilarious

[KaveDweller]

On 3/20/2021 at 2:20 PM, PRgal said:

Or there's a capacity limit.  Note how Kate said she couldn't be a volunteer anymore because of COVID.  She's probably only allowed in for drop-off and pick-up, which is likely why she got a job there.

Kate said she stopped volunteering because she had a new baby at home.  I got the impression that Jack's music class is a thing where parents stay with the kids, I don't think she was just dropping Jack off and leaving him for an hour or whatever.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 3/16/2021 at 10:49 PM, stonehaven said:

This episode had a few issues and watching attacks of male pride on screen isn't usually my thing, I still enjoyed it for the most part. I had just finished a dull, stupid new episode of NCIS so this was like Shakespeare in comparison. Speaking of NCIS, that little shout out conversation about it had me rolling. Mark Harmon IS a dreamboat..:-)

I did love that Kate/Becca talk at the end. It sounds like something my mom would say....All in all, I can live with this episode. It won't be in my top 5 but it held my attention.

I hate the tv contrived thing where a friend or family member offers to help financially, but the pride filled jerk gets angry and insulted.  To me, that doesn’t happen. IRL, people  in need are grateful and say thank you!  I’ll let you know if we’ll need that help. It means a lot to have that support.     

[debraran]

9 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I hate the tv contrived thing where a friend or family member offers to help financially, but the pride filled jerk gets angry and insulted.  To me, that doesn’t happen. IRL, people  in need are grateful and say thank you!  I’ll let you know if we’ll need that help. It means a lot to have that support.     

I think it was that it happened so soon after Kate got him to accept job would happen, rah rah, and then it didn't. Then they were at his house. You can't process it, he hadn't even told Kate yet. I think if Kevin hadn't babbled on so much about Snoo's and the like, just said once, "I'm here if you need me" it would have been different. The writers wanted a confrontation. Don't brag about your money and act like they are throwing it at you and you don't deserve it. It wouldn't be good TV drama to have Kevin say he'd help and let it go or bring up unemployment and extra money most are getting during Covid or maybe think of contacts he had that might be able to help. Offering to buy them an expensive bassinet was odd but Kevin was caught off guard too.

I wish it wasn't so obvious from the clandestine conversation with Kate, there will be money issues later and she'll pay for something and Toby will find out it came from Kevin and she hid it. I hope not but I also see Nicky saying he understands Toby and being a bridge hopefully. Sometimes you need someone who isn't too close to give another perspective.

[CrystalBlue]

11 hours ago, debraran said:

I think it was that it happened so soon after Kate got him to accept job would happen, rah rah, and then it didn't. Then they were at his house. You can't process it, he hadn't even told Kate yet. I think if Kevin hadn't babbled on so much about Snoo's and the like, just said once, "I'm here if you need me" it would have been different. The writers wanted a confrontation. Don't brag about your money and act like they are throwing it at you and you don't deserve it. It wouldn't be good TV drama to have Kevin say he'd help and let it go or bring up unemployment and extra money most are getting during Covid or maybe think of contacts he had that might be able to help. Offering to buy them an expensive bassinet was odd but Kevin was caught off guard too.

I wish it wasn't so obvious from the clandestine conversation with Kate, there will be money issues later and she'll pay for something and Toby will find out it came from Kevin and she hid it. I hope not but I also see Nicky saying he understands Toby and being a bridge hopefully. Sometimes you need someone who isn't too close to give another perspective.

Exactly.  It's said that timing is everything.  That's why I don't fault Toby or Kevin for how things went down, and I see both sides.

[Leeds]

On 3/20/2021 at 1:37 AM, chocolatine said:

The sushi looked delicious, but I didn't think it was *that* lavish and was annoyed that Toby made such a big deal out of it. I don't have anything close to Kevin's money, but I've ordered similar spreads when entertaining out-of-town friends or family whom I don't see often. Nobody's ever gotten their panties in a bunch about it like Toby did. Everyone understands that it's a special occasion and not something any of us do on a regular basis.

And probably in reality no more expensive than picking up the bill at a local restaurant, which Toby would likely have been fine with.  I used to like Toby; now he's a jerk.

On 3/21/2021 at 2:09 PM, Dreamboat Annie said:

It's not a dream world for some of us.  It's just common sense and good manners mixed with a genuine desire to have good relationships with your children and grandchildren.  I guess my husband and I lucked out.  My mother and my mother-in-law are the kindest, most helpful, least judgmental and least interfering people I have ever known.  

In my experience, you did luck out!  My mother-in-law was the antithesis to this - unkind, unhelpful, judgemental, and interfering.  Plus she had the worst table manners imaginable.

[Crs97]

8 minutes ago, Leeds said:

And probably in reality no more expensive than picking up the bill at a local restaurant, which Toby would likely have been fine with.

Actually, he got annoyed with Kevin for that, too, back when Kate and he were engaged.  I like Toby, but sometimes he makes it difficult.

[mostlylurking]

On 3/16/2021 at 9:21 PM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

And I gotta say, if my brother or brother-in-law wanted to buy a house in Malibu that I could vacation at, I would have no problem with that! Turning that down is just over the top.

100%!!  I don’t know why Kevin apologized. I guess it’s just what you do when someone else apologizes but he really didn’t have any reason to do so. “Here, take some of my money, we’re all family!”  Umm, yes please!

Normally I really don’t mind Toby and I do feel for him with losing his job (I do know people IRL that went on 20+ interviews after being fired because of the pandemic and it must be absolutely awful), but guess what most people who lose their jobs don’t have rich brothers just more than happy to help out. Show some gratitude and humility, Toby. 

Edited March 30, 2021 by mostlylurking

[Scarlett45]

On 3/20/2021 at 8:15 AM, ams1001 said:

Maybe I missed something, but I don't understand why Malik would have had to "fight" so hard for custody of his daughter. Her mother wanted to give her up for adoption, her father wanted to raise her himself, and had his parents' support in doing that, and there doesn't seem to be anything in his or his parents' history that would suggest he/they are unfit as parents or that their house would be a bad environment for her. What is the fight? If it was the other way around I doubt there'd be any question of whether Jennifer would keep her own child even if the father didn't want to be involved.

I'm getting ads for the Snoo everywhere, now. Thanks, TIU.

 

In most states- unwed mothers are presumed to have legal and physical custody of their children (for purely practical reasons, they are the person with the uterus who is always present when the child is born).
 

Likely Jennifer’s parents wanted to push the adoption because they wanted Jennifer to be free of all legal ties to the baby.
 

With Malik and his parents taking custody, Jennifer is still legally the child’s mother with all of the financial and legal responsibilities of a non-custodial parent. Including child support whenever she earns an income in the future. Additionally, Malik is still a teen with no income, what if he “bounced” leaving the baby with his parents and his parents became sick/disabled before Janelle was an adult? Jennifer (and her parents) would still be on the hook for raising her. 
 

So Jennifer and her parents would not have been “okay” with handing the baby over to Malik and his parents and just signing a custody agreement. To even get Janelle into their care was a legal battle, as Jennifer wanted to be able to place the baby in an adoption and terminate her (as well as Malik’s) parental rights. 
 

In a reverse situation (which is more common) a woman is allowed to take her baby home from the hospital from day one- she doesn’t need permission from the father (or presumed father) to do so. Malik didn’t have the option of just taking the baby home with him when she was discharged without Jennifer’s permission. 

[millennium]

I'm thinking Toby might have better luck finding a job if his name wasn't Toby.