E01.07: Oceans Apart

[Door County Cherry]

Airs 12/25/20

Spoiler

Amid accusations of lies and betrayal, a rift forms between the newlyweds, while a deception of another kind could besmirch the Bridgerton family name. 

 

[TheOtherOne]

Okay, so I have to accept the gay/bi plot I was hoping for isn't happening, and the gays are just there so serve as an object lesson for another aristocrat-in-love-with-an-unacceptable-woman plot (did we really need a second one of those for the family?). Oh well. Can't be disappointed when I shouldn't have expected anything more.

A decent episode, but not as exciting as the last few, IMO.

 

[bijoux]

Colin, why do you insist on being this dull? He's not a bad egg, but he's basically an egg white omelette. Pale and shapeless. 

Eloise has been visited by the dreaded parted short bangs! Well, I guess Portia isn't the only one forcing unflattering styles on her daughters. Points to her for moxie going to the queen's brunch. 

It's good that Daphne tried to help Marina, but her equating their situations in her mind is astoundingly unaware. Just, shut up, Daphne. 

Oh, and I felt more heat from Simon and Anthony's fight than I did from all of the rutting across various hard, uncomfortable surfaces. 

Poor, poor Marina. 😞

 

[DearEvette]

Finally, Daphne and her dumb bangs come through!  I liked her conversation with Marina.  She was the only one who offered something like a real option.  It is also a nice nod to the power of a duchess.  This is the most I've liked her all series.

Man that fight between Anthony and Simon was kinda brutal.  I liked it.

On 12/27/2020 at 3:18 AM, bijoux said:

Eloise has been visited by the dreaded parted short bangs!

Ha!  I said the same thing.  She looked nice all dressed up, but she got the bangs.  Her bangs did look a lot nicer than Daphne's though.

 

On 12/25/2020 at 12:06 PM, TheOtherOne said:

Okay, so I have to accept the gay/bi plot I was hoping for isn't happening, and the gays are just there so serve as an object lesson for another aristocrat-in-love-with-an-unacceptable-woman plot (did we really need a second one of those for the family?). Oh well. Can't be disappointed when I shouldn't have expected anything more.

Yeah.  I was hoping.  Maybe we'll still get one for Eloise?  I am thinking that they are setting the stage for Benedict.

Spoiler

In the book his heroine is very ineligible.  She is a bastard.

Poor Marina indeed.  Damn.

[Kirsty]

I absolutely love that the workings of women's bodies play an integral role in this show -- and from the women's point of view. Like when Daphne getting her period is framed as a dramatic incident! If you desperately wanted children and you believed that this might be your only chance, you would be grief-stricken to get your period. I'm sure there are viewers struggling with fertility problems who could relate. But it's something I never see on TV. Props for showing actual red liquid instead of being coy about it, too.

I liked the punch-up at the gentleman's club. We must keep the punching quota high! 😉

Out of curiosity, does anyone know why both the Featherington family and the Bridgerton family are white on the show? Given the diverse cast, why not have one of the families played by black actors?

Eloise looked very like her mother when she was made up and dressed up at the end.

I'm very curious to know which main character is the focus of next season. (There better be a next season.) My guess is Anthony. It makes such a difference if you like the actor, doesn't it? And I like the dude playing Anthony. I'm not sure where the opera-singer story is going, though.

Polly Walker has fantastic screen presence. Mrs. Bridgerton is perfectly fine but Mrs. Featherington makes her seem dull by comparison.

Edited December 30, 2020 by Kirsty

[ursula]

4 minutes ago, Kirsty said:

I absolutely love that the workings of women's bodies play an integral role in this show -- and from the women's point of view. Daphne getting her period is framed as an incident! If you desperately wanted children and you believed that this might be your only chance, you would be grief-stricken to get your period. I'm sure there are viewers struggling with fertility problems who could relate. But it's something I never see on TV. Props for showing actual red liquid instead of being coy about it, too.

 

Yes, this hit hard. Despite my own misgivings about how Daphne went about things, I really felt for her in this scene. 

She's also mourning the Duke's ultimatum, I think. He told her earlier that if she had the child, he'd stick around but if she didn't, they'd live separate lives because he didn't trust her to respect his wish not to have a child. So the period means she's lost her possible baby and her husband.

I also need to stop thinking too much about HTGAWM and Scandal and other Shonda shows, because there was a split second during those close-up focusing with dramatic music that Simon had slipped her something to cause her miscarriage.

 

Can anyone explain to me why Simon needed to stick to her like glue until her baby was confirmed or not? Like was he just being petty or is there a logical reason for it? 

 

 

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, ursula said:

 

Can anyone explain to me why Simon needed to stick to her like glue until her baby was confirmed or not? Like was he just being petty or is there a logical reason for it? 

 

To be perfectly blunt, he was watching her to make sure she did not find another man to knock her up.  Daphne had a small window where that could happen.  Simon was making sure she did not, since he did not trust her.  

[luckyroll3]

On 12/25/2020 at 12:06 PM, TheOtherOne said:

Okay, so I have to accept the gay/bi plot I was hoping for isn't happening, and the gays are just there so serve as an object lesson for another aristocrat-in-love-with-an-unacceptable-woman plot (did we really need a second one of those for the family?). Oh well. Can't be disappointed when I shouldn't have expected anything more.

A decent episode, but not as exciting as the last few, IMO.

 

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought there was a gay/bi reveal for the younger Bridgerton brother. I didn't realize he was actually in love with Marina. I thought it was a game recognized game type of situation. I just knew he was the mysterious partner canoodling with the artist when the 2nd brother had his menage a trois. I was so wrong.

[bijoux]

8 hours ago, Kirsty said:

 

I'm very curious to know which main character is the focus of next season. (There better be a next season.) My guess is Anthony. It makes such a difference if you like the actor, doesn't it? And I like the dude playing Anthony. I'm not sure where the opera-singer story is going, though.

Polly Walker has fantastic screen presence. Mrs. Bridgerton is perfectly fine but Mrs. Featherington makes her seem dull by comparison.

While I’m not crazy about big parts of Anthony’s story, I do like the actor as well and he’s giving me hope for the second season. Which following the books should be his, yes.

8 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

To be perfectly blunt, he was watching her to make sure she did not find another man to knock her up.  Daphne had a small window where that could happen.  Simon was making sure she did not, since he did not trust her.  

I think it was also an excuse for him not to let her leave him. He protested about separate bedrooms as well.

7 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought there was a gay/bi reveal for the younger Bridgerton brother. I didn't realize he was actually in love with Marina. I thought it was a game recognized game type of situation. I just knew he was the mysterious partner canoodling with the artist when the 2nd brother had his menage a trois. I was so wrong.

Most people pegged Benedict -the brother in the meage- as bi/gay, not Colin.

[Roseanna]

12 hours ago, ursula said:

Can anyone explain to me why Simon needed to stick to her like glue until her baby was confirmed or not? Like was he just being petty or is there a logical reason for it?

 

12 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

To be perfectly blunt, he was watching her to make sure she did not find another man to knock her up.  Daphne had a small window where that could happen.  Simon was making sure she did not, since he did not trust her.  

I don't think Simon suspected that Daphne would find another man to make her pregnant. Instead, he knew that if he had abandoned her after the wedding, the society would suspect that he had found out that she was expecting another man's baby.  

[Growsonwalls]

16 hours ago, bijoux said:

I think it was also an excuse for him not to let her leave him. He protested about separate bedrooms as well.

I felt this way as well. I also thought that he did it because that's just what spiteful quarreling couples do sometimes -- whatever she wants I don't want. Since Daphne wanted separate quarters to spite her he doesn't want that. 

I really enjoyed the opening scene of Daphne and Simon eating together. It was a nice mirror of how when they first got married they were so besotted they had to sit next to each other and run out mid-meal for a roll in the gazebo. Now they're so estranged a long table isn't distance enough. It was sort of like that scene between Charles Kane and his wife in Citizen Kane.

[Nidratime]

On 12/29/2020 at 4:31 PM, Kirsty said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone know why both the Featherington family and the Bridgerton family are white on the show? Given the diverse cast, why not have one of the families played by black actors?

Regarding the all white Bridgertons and Featheringtons, I am guessing they are trying to keep within the bounds of making the families believable in terms of genetics/biology -- for instance, consider the all black Bassett family -- but that doesn't mean there aren't mixed race members, like Marina and, if Daphne should get pregnant, Daphne and Simon's children. At least, that's what I'm thinking.

Regarding Simon hanging around to see if Daphne is pregnant, he wouldn't want to abandon her if she indeed were pregnant. He doesn't want to be a father -- allegedly -- but he doesn't want to leave her and his child without his support and protection if she were. Otherwise, he proposes that they part so that it doesn't happen again.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Nidratime

[Growsonwalls]

I really disliked how snotty Lady Bridgerton became in this episode. Thank god Daphne as the Duchess overrode her mother's opinions.

ETA: I'm shocked how much Daphne drank in this episode even while knowing she could be pregnant.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Growsonwalls

[Ailianna]

Why would Daphne, a Recency woman, have any issues drinking any amount of alcohol while pregnant? It's like all the people complaining that the pull out method isn't that effective--in that time, people thought it was. 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Ailianna

[nodorothyparker]

I quite liked the almost split screen dichotomy of this episode in how a pregnancy is a disaster for one character while the lack of one is a disaster for another. That was extremely well done.

Tons have been written about the issues of how Daphne's maybe baby would have been conceived, but I did think this episode did a nice job of reminding that hers isn't exactly a marriage of equals either, which also colors things. It's nice that Simon was so enlightened he didn't need or want Daphne's dowry and could set it up in trust for her, but everything in that scene is legally his and he can just refuse to let her move into a separate room without any further discussion about it. He gets to decide whether they live together or separately. Their society will regard him as terrible if he doesn't properly provide for her and any child they might have, but he gets to call all the shots on what that even looks like.  He can tell her that if sperm and egg didn't meet up that there will never be another chance at it and she has no recourse. She can't legally divorce or leave him. Stairway sex looks as uncomfortable as hell, but their argument afterward really reflected that even as she called out how faulty Simon's decision making is.

You know the servants in the dining room of ye giant table really appreciated being dragged into that argument.

The color palette of the queen's luncheon from the trees to the costumes was breathtaking. Daphne's purple-blue dress was gorgeous and everything felt like it was literally popping off the screen. 

Eloise doesn't clean up half bad and she didn't even seem to hate it as much as she clearly wanted to, but apparently cleaning up means you also inherit the tragic bangs.

[Growsonwalls]

47 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I quite liked the almost split screen dichotomy of this episode in how a pregnancy is a disaster for one character while the lack of one is a disaster for another. That was extremely well done.

Tons have been written about the issues of how Daphne's maybe baby would have been conceived, but I did think this episode did a nice job of reminding that hers isn't exactly a marriage of equals either, which also colors things. It's nice that Simon was so enlightened he didn't need or want Daphne's dowry and could set it up in trust for her, but everything in that scene is legally his and he can just refuse to let her move into a separate room without any further discussion about it. He gets to decide whether they live together or separately. Their society will regard him as terrible if he doesn't properly provide for her and any child they might have, but he gets to call all the shots on what that even looks like.  He can tell her that if sperm and egg didn't meet up that there will never be another chance at it and she has no recourse. She can't legally divorce or leave him. Stairway sex looks as uncomfortable as hell, but their argument afterward really reflected that even as she called out how faulty Simon's decision making is.

You know the servants in the dining room of ye giant table really appreciated being dragged into that argument.

The color palette of the queen's luncheon from the trees to the costumes was breathtaking. Daphne's purple-blue dress was gorgeous and everything felt like it was literally popping off the screen. 

Eloise doesn't clean up half bad and she didn't even seem to hate it as much as she clearly wanted to, but apparently cleaning up means you also inherit the tragic bangs.

True, but in defense of Simon ... even if he were to have done all the things he threatened to do in this episode he would have been considered an A+ husband for his time:

1) He was not physically abusive 

2) He did not make unreasonable financial demands on his wife's family

3) He didn't gamble away his wife's fortune (unlike Lord Featherington)

4) He didn't bring home a bunch of STD's to his wife (which was actually a huge issue for the time and led to a lot of miscarriages)

I mean it's sad but Daphne was very lucky for a woman of that era. 

[Avabelle]

So I’m confused - are we to think Madame de la coix is Gossip Girl?

[tennisgurl]

I was suspecting the dress maker as well, until Eloise started suspecting her as well. My suspect? Penelope. She is all sweet and cute, but maybe she is getting all of that resentment at society for ignoring her by being lady Whistledown. Is it a coincidence that right after her last attempt to stop Mariana and Colin from getting married failed, Lady Whistledown outted the whole scandal? Like Penelope said, not many people knew about her pregnancy outside of their household and they already ruled out the servants, and her sisters dont strike me as super bright, so that pretty much leaves Penelope. Eloise said that she is probably at all the society events but is often ignored...the way Penelope is? 

The fight between Anthony and Simon was way more brutal than the feud between Daphne and Simon, even before the fists started flying. Anthony really held his own, especially considering Simon boxes for fun, the guy has a seriously hard punch. At least they didn't try to duel this time. 

This was a great episode for Daphne, she really showed what she can get done now as a Duchess. Poor Marina though. 

"So you wont have a happy family with the woman you love because of some petty promise you made out of revenge to a guy who's dead now?" 

"...When you say it out loud I guess it sounds kind of stupid."  

[magdalene]

Simon and Daphne are a beautiful couple but I was kind of bored by their constant bunny sex.  It got very repetitive to me very quickly.

I guess for me less is more when it comes to movie sex.

My mind and attention always wander during sex scenes.  I remember thinking when we were introduced to Anthony's pretty butt bonking Sienna in the first episode, hmm make up artists have such interesting jobs, a make up person had to put movie make up on that butt before the scene was filmed.

[TV Diva Queen]

On 1/1/2021 at 2:39 PM, nodorothyparker said:

I quite liked the almost split screen dichotomy of this episode in how a pregnancy is a disaster for one character while the lack of one is a disaster for another. That was extremely well done.

Tons have been written about the issues of how Daphne's maybe baby would have been conceived, but I did think this episode did a nice job of reminding that hers isn't exactly a marriage of equals either, which also colors things. It's nice that Simon was so enlightened he didn't need or want Daphne's dowry and could set it up in trust for her, but everything in that scene is legally his and he can just refuse to let her move into a separate room without any further discussion about it. He gets to decide whether they live together or separately. Their society will regard him as terrible if he doesn't properly provide for her and any child they might have, but he gets to call all the shots on what that even looks like.  He can tell her that if sperm and egg didn't meet up that there will never be another chance at it and she has no recourse. She can't legally divorce or leave him. Stairway sex looks as uncomfortable as hell, but their argument afterward really reflected that even as she called out how faulty Simon's decision making is.

You know the servants in the dining room of ye giant table really appreciated being dragged into that argument.

The color palette of the queen's luncheon from the trees to the costumes was breathtaking. Daphne's purple-blue dress was gorgeous and everything felt like it was literally popping off the screen. 

Eloise doesn't clean up half bad and she didn't even seem to hate it as much as she clearly wanted to, but apparently cleaning up means you also inherit the tragic bangs.

I love the color palette of the Bridgerton home - the blues/aqua, white and golds are something I've never seen in a period piece.  

[WatchrTina]

On 12/27/2020 at 2:18 AM, bijoux said:

Oh, and I felt more heat from Simon and Anthony's fight than I did from all of the rutting across various hard, uncomfortable surfaces. 

If I never see another sex-on-the-stairs scene that will suit me just fine.  I mean SERIOUSLY . . . WHY?  When you have all manner of comfy beds, chaise lounges, and sofas at your disposal, not to mention rugs in front of fireplaces (or the ever-popular bent-over-a-large-antique-desk-and-taken-from-behind scenario) -- WHY?  Sex-on-the stairs is just a cinematographer's wet dream.  NO ONE wants it in real life.

 

On 12/29/2020 at 3:31 PM, Kirsty said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone know why both the Featherington family and the Bridgerton family are white on the show? Given the diverse cast, why not have one of the families played by black actors?

This is just a guess but I'll bet that the first decision made was to have to lead couple (The Duke and his new Duchess) be interracial.  Once the lead actors were cast that lead to white Bridgertons.  The Featheringtons COULD have been black but given the trials and tribulations they are sunk into it might have felt like an "off" message for this racially mixed production.  Alternatively it may be that having chosen a black actress to play Marina (the second female lead) they wanted to ensconce her in a white family (the Featheringtons) to have her -- and her situation -- stand in more stark contrast to the situation of the Featherington daughters

 

On 12/29/2020 at 3:40 PM, ursula said:

Can anyone explain to me why Simon needed to stick to her like glue until her baby was confirmed or not? Like was he just being petty or is there a logical reason for it? 

My interpretation was that he did not trust her not to sleep around behind his back as a means of getting pregnant and then pass the baby off as his.  I've no doubt she could find a willing groom or a footman if she were so inclined.

Edited January 16, 2021 by WatchrTina

[iwantcookies]

Spoiler

You were right about Penelope!!!

On 1/7/2021 at 4:22 PM, tennisgurl said:

I was suspecting the dress maker as well, until Eloise started suspecting her as well. My suspect? Penelope. She is all sweet and cute, but maybe she is getting all of that resentment at society for ignoring her by being lady Whistledown. Is it a coincidence that right after her last attempt to stop Mariana and Colin from getting married failed, Lady Whistledown outted the whole scandal? Like Penelope said, not many people knew about her pregnancy outside of their household and they already ruled out the servants, and her sisters dont strike me as super bright, so that pretty much leaves Penelope. Eloise said that she is probably at all the society events but is often ignored...the way Penelope is? 

The fight between Anthony and Simon was way more brutal than the feud between Daphne and Simon, even before the fists started flying. Anthony really held his own, especially considering Simon boxes for fun, the guy has a seriously hard punch. At least they didn't try to duel this time. 

This was a great episode for Daphne, she really showed what she can get done now as a Duchess. Poor Marina though. 

"So you wont have a happy family with the woman you love because of some petty promise you made out of revenge to a guy who's dead now?" 

"...When you say it out loud I guess it sounds kind of stupid."  

 

 

On 1/7/2021 at 4:22 PM, tennisgurl said:

I was suspecting the dress maker as well, until Eloise started suspecting her as well. My suspect? Penelope. She is all sweet and cute, but maybe she is getting all of that resentment at society for ignoring her by being lady Whistledown. Is it a coincidence that right after her last attempt to stop Mariana and Colin from getting married failed, Lady Whistledown outted the whole scandal? Like Penelope said, not many people knew about her pregnancy outside of their household and they already ruled out the servants, and her sisters dont strike me as super bright, so that pretty much leaves Penelope. Eloise said that she is probably at all the society events but is often ignored...the way Penelope is? 

The fight between Anthony and Simon was way more brutal than the feud between Daphne and Simon, even before the fists started flying. Anthony really held his own, especially considering Simon boxes for fun, the guy has a seriously hard punch. At least they didn't try to duel this time. 

This was a great episode for Daphne, she really showed what she can get done now as a Duchess. Poor Marina though. 

"So you wont have a happy family with the woman you love because of some petty promise you made out of revenge to a guy who's dead now?" 

"...When you say it out loud I guess it sounds kind of stupid."  

 

[Katsullivan]

On 1/7/2021 at 2:22 PM, tennisgurl said:

The fight between Anthony and Simon was way more brutal than the feud between Daphne and Simon, even before the fists started flying. Anthony really held his own, especially considering Simon boxes for fun, the guy has a seriously hard punch. At least they didn't try to duel this time. 

I think this fight was worse than their duel. The kind of fight you can only have with someone who knows you too well and knows all your insecurities. Coincidentally, the two actors have great chemistry as old friends. I was surprised rewatching how few scenes they shared together. I feel like if they had more focus than they actually did.

[Roseanna]

On 1/15/2021 at 12:52 AM, WatchrTina said:

If I never see another sex-on-the-stairs scene that will suit me just fine.  I mean SERIOUSLY . . . WHY?  When you have all manner of comfy beds, chaise lounges, and sofas at your disposal, not to mention rugs in front of fireplaces (or the ever-popular bent-over-a-large-antique-desk-and-taken-from-behind scenario) -- WHY?  Sex-on-the stairs is just a cinematographer's wet dream.  NO ONE wants it in real life.

Even those other places would have meant at that time that Simon wouldn't have treated Daphne as his wife but just as a woman of lower class with whom he had quick and casual sex. Their bedroom was the only place where privacy was guaranteed.  

[Katsullivan]

Newly weds “christening” every room in their new home is as tropey as it gets. It’s not Simon disrespecting her or rather either of them disrespecting each other, it feels a little puritanical to view what is clearly mutual enjoyable sex as something the man “takes” from the woman. They also seem to share an exhibitionist kink as evidenced by the “what will they think?”/“does it matter?” exchange.

 

I’m more concerned about Jeffries or some other servant needing to pick up crusty handkerchiefs after them!

Edited January 16, 2021 by Katsullivan

[shoetingstar]

Are we supposed to believe Simon heard Daphne crying? They really need to repair this soon. It's not fun to watch like the film War of Roses from back in the day, or something.

I was hoping that Marina had deeper feelings for Colin and would have expressed them. I actually like both of them. Could "George" is probably the General himself?! - Idk I wanna know why she gave up hope. so suddenly. Daphne could have talked The Duke into writing the General or she could have just wrote again slapped the Duke's insignia on it. It's not that hard, folks.

I'm so glad Daphne gave her some understanding. I actually liked Daphne when she was not in scenes with Simon. I hate that they made her Mother so ungracious, however.

The moment Marina's news became public I thought it was Penelope. But it's almost obvious enough to be Red Herring. I was waiting for Eloise to find some secret she shared with only Penelope in Lady's Whistledown's paper. Perhaps the Whistledown name will be the clue. The Modiste would be a good candidate as well.

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by shoetingstar

[Roseanna]

16 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Newly weds “christening” every room in their new home is as tropey as it gets. It’s not Simon disrespecting her or rather either of them disrespecting each other, it feels a little puritanical to view what is clearly mutual enjoyable sex as something the man “takes” from the woman. They also seem to share an exhibitionist kink as evidenced by the “what will they think?”/“does it matter?” exchange.

Because people act differently in a different age.     

[Growsonwalls]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Because people act differently in a different age.     

Yeah but married couples have a right to have sex in their own home. Idg why that is an issue ...

[SoWindsor]

The drama between Simon and Daphne seems very manufactured and over the top.

I’m losing interest in this show.

[LeGrandElephant]

Why would the queen ask a teenager who isn’t even out in society, basically a sheltered child with no life experience or access to the adult world, to investigate this secret author? The only way it makes sense is if the queen herself is Lady Whistledown and is just messing with Eloise for fun, but that doesn’t seem to be where they’re going with it. Also why is everyone assuming lady whistledown must witnesse everything herself, rather than having a network of servants etc who spread gossip to her?

[Miss Slay]

On 12/29/2020 at 1:40 PM, ursula said:

Can anyone explain to me why Simon needed to stick to her like glue until her baby was confirmed or not? Like was he just being petty or is there a logical reason for it? 

 

 

I read it as he wanted to be close to her, despite his words. The dynamic between Simone and Daphne was interesting this episode. When she pushed him away (wanting separate bedrooms, houses, ect), he wouldn't let her push him away. Then later with the emotional stuff with his dad, when he tried to push her away - she wouldn't let him.

This episode showed the Duke saying things that were the opposite of how he felt. He wanted them to live separate lives but then he couldn't help but hold her hand at the (opera?). He was upset about their night before and didn't want to have sex again - but still wanted her close. That's how I read it.

[gingerella]

On 1/31/2021 at 7:32 PM, Miss Slay said:

I read it as he wanted to be close to her, despite his words. The dynamic between Simone and Daphne was interesting this episode. When she pushed him away (wanting separate bedrooms, houses, ect), he wouldn't let her push him away. Then later with the emotional stuff with his dad, when he tried to push her away - she wouldn't let him.

This episode showed the Duke saying things that were the opposite of how he felt. He wanted them to live separate lives but then he couldn't help but hold her hand at the (opera?). He was upset about their night before and didn't want to have sex again - but still wanted her close. That's how I read it.

What annoys the fuck out of me is how poor the story telling is here. The costumes are lovely, the sets divine, but the dialogue is utter crap. All Daphne needs to do is have another heart to heart with Simon and tell him, "Am I to understand that you won't have children to gain revenge on your horrible father? Don't you see that the best revenge is to fill this house with love and laughter and live your life with a loving wife and children whom you can dote on and give them everything your father did not give you? Can you not see how THAT is the best revenge? Change the House from one of sadness to one of joy and service to others!" I mean, it's true, living well would be a much better revenge than living a lonely AF like, just schtupping whores because you can't be with your wife whom you love because why? Oh, yeah, because you want to get revenge on your daddy, who is dead and long gone. Dumb plot line.

[Tyro49]

I'm not too clear on this topic, but isn't marrying under false pretenses (no intention of fathering children, no matter what the vows say) grounds for annulment?

I couldn't see the names on the jars Marina was choosing to make her "potion"; does anyone know what she took? Was she trying to kill herself or induce a miscarriage?

[dubbel zout]

8 minutes ago, Tyro49 said:

I'm not too clear on this topic, but isn't marrying under false pretenses (no intention of fathering children, no matter what the vows say) grounds for annulment?

In modern times it would be considered fraud, but I doubt back then a woman had that option. Or any option, really.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

In modern times it would be considered fraud, but I doubt back then a woman had that option. Or any option, really.

They did have that option in Regency England,  but it would have been impossible to prove and impossible to keep private.   

[Umbelina]

11 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

I'm not too clear on this topic, but isn't marrying under false pretenses (no intention of fathering children, no matter what the vows say) grounds for annulment?

I couldn't see the names on the jars Marina was choosing to make her "potion"; does anyone know what she took? Was she trying to kill herself or induce a miscarriage?

The latter.

[dubbel zout]

20 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

22 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

In modern times it would be considered fraud, but I doubt back then a woman had that option. Or any option, really.

They did have that option in Regency England,  but it would have been impossible to prove and impossible to keep private.

So basically no option. 😉 

[Camera One]

Despite the somewhat frustrating plot, the beauty and the polish of the production and the setting really makes this show quite engaging.  I've restricted myself to only watching one episode per day, but that leaves me with only one episode left.

I'm glad they got Daphne and the Duke back in London again.  I liked the scenes between Daphne and her mother, and the Duke has good chemistry with Anthony.   Daphne trying to help Marina was interesting, but so was Marina pointing out that as duchess, she actually didn't have much sway.   

Daphne and Simon were still difficult to root for.  I'm glad she pointed out how pointless the vow was when said aloud, though I wish she expressed a bit of regret for trying to get pregnant against his will.  

That cut on his eyebrow healed really well and quickly.   Such flawless skin he has, that Duke.

The Queen was amusing, though I agree with the above poster that it was stretching it that she wouldn't have used her own resources to identify Lady Whistledown sooner instead of thinking Eloise had a chance of identifying the mysterious writer.  The dressmaker is well placed to be gossip writer, though they had her mentioning Lady Whistledown a few times to the Opera Singer I think?, which made it seem like it wasn't going to be her.

[showme]

Just exactly how innocent can Daphne be when it comes to basic sex ed? Given that she has four brothers, some much younger than her, she never saw what a penis looks like, even on a baby? She never had any sexual urges, even during her puberty? and she was never curious? Even if she was as pure as a white lotus, what about her brothers, they never had any sex talk at home, and she never overheard anything or saw anything? What about her female friends, they never talk? What about her mother, she must have been quite active if she had eight children!  It is quite unbelievable that Daphne wouldn't know what semen is, even considering the time she lives in!  

[Conotocarious]

I also find it unrelatable that Daphne must have borne witness to her mother screaming her head off during childbirth and without her husband no less and she still only wants children more than anything? Really? I’d be scared shitless.  

Edited March 27, 2022 by Conotocarious

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, showme said:

Just exactly how innocent can Daphne be when it comes to basic sex ed? Given that she has four brothers, some much younger than her, she never saw what a penis looks like, even on a baby? She never had any sexual urges, even during her puberty? and she was never curious? Even if she was as pure as a white lotus, what about her brothers, they never had any sex talk at home, and she never overheard anything or saw anything? What about her female friends, they never talk? What about her mother, she must have been quite active if she had eight children!  It is quite unbelievable that Daphne wouldn't know what semen is, even considering the time she lives in!  

I don’t think it’s unusual. Daphne is an aristocratic girl- she is not the one that would’ve been changing diapers or cleaning linen or assisting with younger children in that way where she would’ve seen a penis (even on a baby). Her mom having 8 children- again she wasn’t living in a tiny farm house where she would’ve heard or been in close quarters to hear her parents having sex, nor would she have attended her mom’s births or assisted her post partum the way even a middle class girl with one or two servants would’ve. The servants would’ve done all that. When she got her period they probably told her it was a mark of womanhood and meant she could have babies now and left it at that. 
 

Her older brothers certainly wouldn’t have discussed sex with her- would’ve been seen as corrupting her. Now she and her female friends may have chatted about how handsome they found xyz man, and she might have understood “urges” but that doesn’t mean she understands how conception works. 

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

I also find it unrelatable that Daphne must have borne witness to her mother screaming her head off during childbirth and without her husband no less and she still only wants children more than anything? Really? I’d be scared shitless.  

I don’t think Daphne bore witness to that. Likely when her mother went into labor, she took to her wing and the children were on the other side of that huge house (again this is an aristocratic family, not even a middle class family in a townhouse or a set of apartments). The servants entertained the children until the mother was ready to receive them (had rested, brushed her hair etc) and the baby was clean/swaddled and THEN the older children met their sibling. 
 

Daphne (and girls similarly situated to her) would not have had anything to do with, or be anywhere near a woman giving birth (even their mom). The servants and women who had already had children would’ve been involved. 

[ouinason]

I didn't see a penis in real life until I was... well, older than Daphne.  And I'm a million percent sure that she wasn't exposed to the reading material and general media that we are today.  Babies don't count, neither does art.  It's so distanced from what the realities of a sexual relationship are that when you think of "seeing a penis" they don't even register.

[Scarlett45]

21 hours ago, ouinason said:

I didn't see a penis in real life until I was... well, older than Daphne.  And I'm a million percent sure that she wasn't exposed to the reading material and general media that we are today.  Babies don't count, neither does art.  It's so distanced from what the realities of a sexual relationship are that when you think of "seeing a penis" they don't even register.

I can understand your experience- thanks for sharing. 

[Roseanna]

On 3/27/2022 at 10:46 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think Daphne bore witness to that. Likely when her mother went into labor, she took to her wing and the children were on the other side of that huge house (again this is an aristocratic family, not even a middle class family in a townhouse or a set of apartments).

That would have probably, but in the show Eloise and Daphne discussed before Daphne's marriage that they both had heard their mother screeming when Hyacinth was born. The experience had made Eloise terrified of marriage and childbirth, but Daphne concentratad on happiness of their mother and the whole family about a new arrival. 

In fact, childbirth was the most dangerous matter of a woman's life. And of course it was rare that Lady Bridgerton had eight children and none of them had died in infancy.

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

That would have probably, but in the show Eloise and Daphne discussed before Daphne's marriage that they both had heard their mother screeming when Hyacinth was born. The experience had made Eloise terrified of marriage and childbirth, but Daphne concentratad on happiness of their mother and the whole family about a new arrival. 

In fact, childbirth was the most dangerous matter of a woman's life. And of course it was rare that Lady Bridgerton had eight children and none of them had died in infancy.

Even Queen Charlotte lost one in infancy.