The Bachelor Season 25: Spoilers and Speculation

[chocolatine]

54 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Ok. I know who Serena is because she had a 1:1 date this week. Do any of these other women have any memorable moments that would help to pinpoint who they are?

Bri had the first 1:1 date last week (the one with the tipped-over ATV); she's the half-Persian, half-Black woman born to a 13-year-old mother. Rachael is the brunette who looks a little bit like a young Isabella Rossellini. She was the one who was moved to tears after Matt forced everyone to have a group prayer in the first episode. She got a group date rose at the "erotica" date. AFAIK, there's currently no Michelle, so she must be one of the five new women who show up next week.

The deaf woman's name is Abigail; she got the first impression rose but isn't among RS's top 4.

[JenE4]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Bri had the first 1:1 date last week (the one with the tipped-over ATV); she's the half-Persian, half-Black woman born to a 13-year-old mother. Rachael is the brunette who looks a little bit like a young Isabella Rossellini. She was the one who was moved to tears after Matt forced everyone to have a group prayer in the first episode. She got a group date rose at the "erotica" date. AFAIK, there's currently no Michelle, so she must be one of the five new women who show up next week.

The deaf woman's name is Abigail; she got the first impression rose but isn't among RS's top 4.

Thank you, @chocolatine! You are much better than my friend at giving context clues! Very helpful! 

[LakeGal]

I caught Ashley I in a clip where she was asked if they brought in the new girls because Matt was not connecting with any of the original girls.  Ashley said she didn't believe that.  She said when she did her visit to the show that she thought Matt had a close connection with Rachel.  She also said he seemed to like Bri.  She figured they just brought the new girls in for drama.  

[funnygirl]

Well this is pretty thorough… and damning. 

If she really is F1, it's a shame that the first Black bachelor is tied to someone like this. 

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

Well this is pretty thorough… and damning. 

If she really is F1, it's a shame that the first Black bachelor is tied to someone like this. 

Sounds like she's a female version of Becca's Garrett.

[TiredMe]

51 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

Well this is pretty thorough… and damning. 

If she really is F1, it's a shame that the first Black bachelor is tied to someone like this. 

Cliff notes version please. I can’t get it to play

[JenE4]

9 hours ago, TiredMe said:

Cliff notes version please. I can’t get it to play

Oh, boy, a WHOLE BUNCH of photos and “likes” showing racism.

[tinkerbell]

that video has been removed.

[Back Atcha]

Is there a description?  Inquiring minds want to know...not dying to know--just mildly curious.

[chocolatine]

On 1/27/2021 at 7:02 PM, Back Atcha said:

Is there a description?  Inquiring minds want to know...not dying to know--just mildly curious.

Things I caught from the video (it moved quickly and I only watched it once, so I must have missed a few things): Rachael liked a photo featuring the confederate flag, liked or subscribed to an ultra-conservative blog, posted a photo of herself wearing Native American headdress, and either posted or liked pro-police posts after Ahmaud Arbery's shooting. There was also an allegation that when she was in high school she bullied another white girl for dating a Black guy.

ETA: There's a reddit thread with more information for those who are interested.

Edited January 29, 2021 by chocolatine

[DEL901]

Maybe I’m just forgetting some dates because this season is so....forgettable, but so far, Matt has had a 1-1 with Bri, Serena P and Michelle.    The question is... did he go on dates with these women because he expressed interest and TPTB gave him what/who he wanted, perhaps in the hopes he’d be more lively and interesting or, did he make these women part of his top 4 because he got to know them the best since they had the 1-2 dates?

[Jeanne222]

On 1/27/2021 at 11:27 PM, chocolatine said:

Things I caught from the video (it moved quickly and I only watched it once, so I must have missed a few things): Rachael liked a photo featuring the confederate flag, liked or subscribed to an ultra-conservative blog, posted a photo of herself wearing Native American headdress, and either posted or liked pro-police posts after Ahmaud Arbery's shooting. There was also an allegation that when she was in high school she bullied another white girl for dating a Black guy.

ETA: There's a reddit thread with more information for those who are interested.

Humm if she's racist why would she be trying to marry Matt, a black man?  Color me confused.

[seacliffsal]

She may not be trying to marry Matt; she may be trying to become the Bachelorette, get on BIP, or become an "influencer."

[catrice2]

10 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Humm if she's racist why would she be trying to marry Matt, a black man?  Color me confused.

I am laughing at the thought that there are people who think that most of these people go on the show really expecting to get married.  Maybe 2%.  She probably never thought she would make it that far and could pad her Instagram numbers and fame and get some brand deals out of it.  Or maybe in the middle of COVID she wanted an adventure staying at a resort for free for a few monts.  Fake a relationship for a while and get the prestige of being in "bachelor nation."   At some point people wan't the prestige of "winning" which would make sense the way her family and friends are bragging about her being the "winner" not that she is in love.   She would not be the first or the last..... Wasn't Lee on Rachel's season?   and he is not the only one with those views associated with the franchise.....I rest my case....

 

Better question, if Matt takes 3 WOC to the final four that DON'T win, then I want to see how the franchise gets around choosing someone else to be the Bachelorette.....because they will. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by catrice2

[funnygirl]

From Reality Steve: 

Spoiler

One final note that I found out regarding the ending.  I’ve been told that Matt actually lets Michelle go before the final rose ceremony. 

Michelle is far too good for Matt, this we know. But I'm not going to like seeing her heart get broken over this goober. I hope she stays far away from the franchise after this. 

Unless Matt has zero self respect for himself, he and Rachael will not last. 

@catrice2:

Quote

Better question, if Matt takes 3 WOC to the final four that DON'T win, then I want to see how the franchise gets around choosing someone else to be the Bachelorette.....because they will. 

Oh, you know ABC is like "Tayshia AND Matt in the same cycle? We've met our POC quota!" Bri, Serena P, or Michelle would be excellent Bachelorettes, but if it's anyone from this season I won't be surprised if it's Abigail or even Katie. Queen Victoria has a one-way ticket to BIP - if/when they're able to start filming that again. 

 

ETA because I just saw this on RS: 

Spoiler

• Abigail finishes 5th
• Final 4 hometowns are: Bri Springs, Serena Pitt, Michelle Young, and Rachael Kirkconnell. Their families came to Nemacolin just like on Tayshia’s season where their families traveled to the location of filming due to COVID.
• Serena gets eliminated after hometowns
• Bri gets eliminated after overnights
• Michelle and Rachael are the final 2 and he chooses Rachael.

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by funnygirl

[gingerandcloves]

I wonder if Michelle had been allowed to come in at the first, if Matt maybe would've ended up choosing her, because he would have had longer to get to know her. Coming in this late puts her at a disadvantage. Of course, she can probably do better than Matt anyhow.

[catrice2]

On 1/30/2021 at 6:36 PM, funnygirl said:

From Reality Steve: 

  Reveal spoiler

One final note that I found out regarding the ending.  I’ve been told that Matt actually lets Michelle go before the final rose ceremony. 

Michelle is far too good for Matt, this we know. But I'm not going to like seeing her heart get broken over this goober. I hope she stays far away from the franchise after this. 

Unless Matt has zero self respect for himself, he and Rachael will not last. 

@catrice2:

Oh, you know ABC is like "Tayshia AND Matt in the same cycle? We've met our POC quota!" Bri, Serena P, or Michelle would be excellent Bachelorettes, but if it's anyone from this season I won't be surprised if it's Abigail or even Katie. Queen Victoria has a one-way ticket to BIP - if/when they're able to start filming that again. 

 

ETA because I just saw this on RS: 

  Reveal spoiler

• Abigail finishes 5th
• Final 4 hometowns are: Bri Springs, Serena Pitt, Michelle Young, and Rachael Kirkconnell. Their families came to Nemacolin just like on Tayshia’s season where their families traveled to the location of filming due to COVID.
• Serena gets eliminated after hometowns
• Bri gets eliminated after overnights
• Michelle and Rachael are the final 2 and he chooses Rachael.

 

@funnygirl  I am reading the boards sometimes, but not watching.  I have friends that watch and I work with people with disabilities that watch the show.  One of the things they said to me is that they are tired of people infantiling people with disabilities. They were pointing out that people automatically fawn over you and think you are cute, etc. as if you are not an adult with the same issues as everyone else.  I can't say, but they said that Abigail has not done much on the show to indicate that she would be a good Bachelorette, or that she is either a good, fun or an interesting person, but immediately when people found out she had a disability they started fawning all over her to be the Bachelorette and making certain statements. Can't speak to that, but I feel it was similar about their being a Black Bachelor. No one really asked who is Matt, WHY, other than ABC could get a built in fan base since he was Tyler's friend and hangs around Caucasian people, would people want to date him. There was a fetishism (maybe that is a strong word?) but a bad feeling I got whenever they talked about casting him and how some of the girls reacted to him in clips that I saw. Clearly it was done as a response to BLM, but do you feel like people are hyping Abigail because she is so awesome, or because they think it would be cool to have someone with an obvious disability?  I say obvious disability because there are hidden disabilities.  For all they know there has been someone on the spectrum, Dyslexia or a number of other disabilities that they have had to overcome that could have been just as impactful or more than her disability.   ADHD and depression/anxiety can also be very serious.  Just wondering what people think...what has she done to show she is so awesome?  I looked her up and she is cute, but nothing outstanding.....

[Irlandesa]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:55 AM, Jeanne222 said:

Humm if she's racist why would she be trying to marry Matt, a black man?  Color me confused.

It's because people are confusing and contradictory. 

I don't know if Rachel is an outright racist, just palled around with racists or considers this all in the past and she's "grown" now but Matt's not just any  black man.  He's the "lead" of a TV show.  He's model gorgeous.  He's tall.  He was raised by a white woman in white spaces near where she grew up so she probably feels very comfortable with him.

She can still like and appreciate him as an individual, as someone she knows, and hold overall negative views of other black people in general. It's a pretty common phenomenon, I think, when it comes to bias and prejudice.  People like the people of color that they know personally or famous people they like.  But then might look negatively on those they don't know. 

5 hours ago, gingerandcloves said:

I wonder if Michelle had been allowed to come in at the first, if Matt maybe would've ended up choosing her, because he would have had longer to get to know her. Coming in this late puts her at a disadvantage. Of course, she can probably do better than Matt anyhow.

I don't know. I think he had a pretty big reaction to her when she came in--bigger than with anyone until Rachel tonight. 

4 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I can't say, but they said that Abigail has not done much on the show to indicate that she would be a good Bachelorette, or that she is either a good, fun or an interesting person, but immediately when people found out she had a disability they started fawning all over her to be the Bachelorette and making certain statements.

Nah.  I think people liked Abigail on her one-on-one with Matt.  With all the drama in the house, it's easy to forget that early episode but she seemed likeable which is usually the type of edit the next chosen one tends to get.  I do think people would be open to her being the next bachelorette because she's likable and the disability and racial background would be a background story we haven't seen told 100 times on this show.

Of the women in the house, I think the three front runners for Bachelorette (so far) amongst viewers are Michelle, Abigail and Katie.  Of the three of them, Katie's probably doing the best at blending likeable person and stirring up the drama (by calling out bullying) so far but that's rarely the kind of person that gets selected as far as I know. 

If she gets chosen and she's boring?  Again, that's pretty typical.  I've seen two episodes of Matt outside the house and he showed more personality in those five minutes than I've seen so far on the show.  He still might be boring as heck but this show rarely does its leads any favors.  It's a miracle when they come off as interesting people. 

[Jeanne222]

8 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

It's because people are confusing and contradictory. 

I don't know if Rachel is an outright racist, just palled around with racists or considers this all in the past and she's "grown" now but Matt's not just any  black man.  He's the "lead" of a TV show.  He's model gorgeous.  He's tall.  He was raised by a white woman in white spaces near where she grew up so she probably feels very comfortable with him.

She can still like and appreciate him as an individual, as someone she knows, and hold overall negative views of other black people in general. It's a pretty common phenomenon, I think, when it comes to bias and prejudice.  People like the people of color that they know personally or famous people they like.  But then might look negatively on those they don't know. 

I don't know. I think he had a pretty big reaction to her when she came in--bigger than with anyone until Rachel tonight. 

 

 

Hummm. At first I disagreed with you but as I read on yes you're right people do pick and choose.

Thank you for explaining it quite understandable.

[tinkerbell]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:55 AM, Jeanne222 said:

Humm if she's racist why would she be trying to marry Matt, a black man?  Color me confused.

It isn't confusing to me that people who are exposed to bigotry when they are young might develop different opinions and attitudes as they mature.

[Jeanne222]

On 1/27/2021 at 11:27 PM, chocolatine said:

Things I caught from the video (it moved quickly and I only watched it once, so I must have missed a few things): Rachael liked a photo featuring the confederate flag, liked or subscribed to an ultra-conservative blog, posted a photo of herself wearing Native American headdress, and either posted or liked pro-police posts after Ahmaud Arbery's shooting. There was also an allegation that when she was in high school she bullied another white girl for dating a Black guy.

ETA: There's a reddit thread with more information for those who are interested.

 

2 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

It isn't confusing to me that people who are exposed to bigotry when they are young might develop different opinions and attitudes as they mature.

I was referring to the above post when I commented.  I don't think she was that young but in high school!  She's only 22 or 23 now.  I don't know just an observation.

[phlebas]

5 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

It isn't confusing to me that people who are exposed to bigotry when they are young might develop different opinions and attitudes as they mature.

I am living, breathing proof this is true.

[catrice2]

You know what amuses me?  The differences in how people react to situations. As I recall, there have now been two black men who have had their characters called into question.   One from BIP and one from the Bachelorette. Although no charges were filed, things from tweets, etc. were taken as gospel and people were calling for them to be arrested, etc.  and who knows how that affected their personal and professional relationships?  In both cases each side had people who agreed with their account of the situation,  and one occurred in high school, but guess who was believed? 

Now that there is a question about someone else, it is "where is the PROOF?"  Everyone can change!  that was when they were in HIGH SCHOOL.   Well of course the accuser's friends would agree with her.....they were too young to know better.... it's all hearsay ... the likes, retweeting  and supporting of problematic rhetoric was misunderstood or taken out of context....even though a lot of this behavior is from the past three years...when she was fully an adult.  You also form different friends if you've had a "revelation."  Sometimes it even means moving on from family members.   I know I have....and didn't look back. 

I love the fact that my parents held me accountable for being a decent human from DAY one.  I was also a Girl Scout, and I took the honor code seriously.  I didn't start rumors, victimize people, or support causes that were problematic towards groups of others.  If I had I can guarantee you my parents would not have brushed it off because of my age.  The number of students and adults I have counseled whose  mental health or identity issues stem from and started with "harmless, silly" behavior from someone in their childhood is pretty high.  In our history it is not too long ago that at 17 or 18 you may have been married with children of your own.  This idea that everything that we do from say 25 and below should be excused because we are "young" confounds me.  How old do you have to be to know that you don't name call, bully, or minimize people? 

No, I don't believe that someone should be demonized for the rest of their life for their actions when there is a sincere effort to change, admit where they went wrong, and acknowledge what they did.  There was a lovely story on Kelly Clarkson of a White Supremist that started a friendship with his parole officer.  He talked about his regret, his shame, and the changes he made in his life, on his own, with nothing to gain from it. 

I don't know what is true and what is not true, that is not my point. Nor am I equating an allegation of racism with an allegation of inappropriate sexual conduct or saying I believe one or the other.  I am just struck by how it is always different and pointing out that both can be harmful long term to the person who is victimized. 

Someone explains it perfectly upthread but to be clear.....how many people admire actors, sports figures, etc. and would love to have their autograph or date them, because they are associated with fame, money or opportunity ?  In other words they are "acceptable" ....but would not and have not EVER had someone who looks like that person over for dinner or engaged in a conversation with them?  Would recoil from any contact with them?     Think of Tiger Woods...who was the "acceptable one" because of not only his fame, but who he surrounded himself with....until he got in trouble and lost some of the fame....... he quickly went from mixed race, Cabalinasian to just BLACK. 

Coming on a show that has a black man as the "prize" does not mean that you have had some massive change.  Maybe she has, who knows? But the "evidence" that she is NOT what she has been accused of is just as flimsy as the evidence that she is.   Would that everyone in this franchise was given the same benefit of the doubt.  Wonder why they were not? 

Edited February 3, 2021 by catrice2

[Mabinogia]

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Of the three of them, Katie's probably doing the best at blending likeable person and stirring up the drama (by calling out bullying) so far but that's rarely the kind of person that gets selected as far as I know. 

I don't think they'll pick Katie only because she has been calling out all the behaviour this show tries to cultivate so the chances of her "playing by the rules" of Bach-World are slim. If they told her to keep a Victoria type who is really just there to stir up drama, she might say no because she's shown that she isn't into the drama. 

I like her so I also would like to think she is a one and done girl. She came, had the experience and will then get on with her real life. I have seen what they do to Leads. I don't want that for her. 

[EllenB]

3 hours ago, catrice2 said:

You know what amuses me?  The differences in how people react to situations. As I recall, there have now been two black men who have had their characters called into question.   One from BIP and one from the Bachelorette. Although no charges were filed, things from tweets, etc. were taken as gospel and people were calling for them to be arrested, etc.  and who knows how that affect their personal and professional relationships?  Even though in both cases each side had people who agreed with their account of the situation, but guess who was believed? 

Now that there is a question about someone else, it is "where is the PROOF?"  Everyone can change!  that was when they were in HIGH SCHOOL.   Well of course the accuser's friends would agree with her.....they were too young to know better.... it's all hearsay ... the likes and supporting of problematic rhetoric was misunderstood or taken out of context....even though a lot of this behavior is from the past three years...when she was fully an adult.  You also form different friends if you've had a "revelation."  Sometimes it even means moving on from family members.   I know I have....and didn't look back. 

I love the fact that my parents held me accountable for being a decent human from DAY one.  I was also a Girl Scout, and I took the honor code seriously.  I didn't start rumors, victimize people, or support causes the were problematic towards groups of others.  If I had I can guarantee you my parents would not have brushed it off because of my age.  The number of students and adults I have counseled whose  mental health or identify issues stem from and started with "harmless, silly" behavior from someone in their childhood is pretty high.  It our history it is not too long ago that at 17 or 18 you may have been married with children of your own.  This idea that everything that we do from say 25 and below should be excused because we are "young" confounds me.  How old do you have to be to know that you don't name call, bully, or minimize people? 

No, I don't believe that someone should be demonized for the rest of their life for their actions..when there is a sincere effort to change, admit where they went wrong, and acknowledge what they did.  There was a lovely story on Kelly Clarkson of a White Supremist that started a friendship with his parole officer.  He talked about his regret, his shame, and the changes he made in his life, on his own, with nothing to gain from it. 

I don't know what is true and what is not true, that is not my point. Nor am I equating an allegation of racism with an allegation of inappropriate sexual conduct or saying I believe one or the other.  I am just struck by how it is always different and pointing out that both can be harmful long term to the person who is victimized. 

Someone explains it perfectly upthread but to be clear.....how many people admire actors, sports figures, etc. and would love to have their autograph or date them, because they are associated with fame, money or opportunity  in other words they are "acceptable" ....but would not and have not EVER had someone who looks like that person over for dinner or engaged in a conversation with them?  Would recoil from any contact with them?     Think of Tiger Woods...who was the "acceptable one" because of not only his fame, but who he surrounded himself with....until he got in trouble and lost some of the fame....... he quickly went from mixed race, Cabalinasian to just BLACK. 

Coming on a show that has a black man as the "prize" does not mean that you have had some massive change.  Maybe she has, who knows? But the "evidence" that she is NOT what she has been accused of is just as flimsy as the evidence that she is.   Would that everyone in this franchise was given the same benefit of the doubt. Insert other media

 

If Rachel's been liking and reposting racist crap, she's a racist, unless someone finds a strong repudiation of those posts - and the people in them - well before she became a contestant. "When people show you who they are, believe them."

Just think of the different outcome if Chris Soules had been a person of color who killed a neighbor while under the influence. He barely got a gentle tap on the wrist! But he's got the double privilege of being white and wealthy, so nobody wanted to ruin his oh-so-special life by making him learn that actions have consequences. 😠😠😠

Edited February 3, 2021 by EllenB

[Thumper]

1 hour ago, EllenB said:

If Rachel's been liking and reposting racist crap, she's a racist, unless someone finds a strong repudiation of those posts - and the people in them - well before she became a contestant. "When people show you who they are, believe them."

Just think of the different outcome if Chris Soules had been a person of color who killed a neighbor while under the influence. He barely got a gentle tap on the wrist! But he's got the double privilege of being white and wealthy, so nobody wanted to ruin his oh-so-special life by making him learn that actions have consequences. 😠😠😠

Agree about a person of color being treated differently.  This is an article I found, as from your comments I thought Chris had shot someone.  It is very sad, but I do wonder.  Would welcome further input.  Maybe this has been covered in other threads; I don’t know.  

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2019/08/23/chris-soules-former-bachelor-star-receives-two-year-suspended-term-role-fatal-crash/2098633001/

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Thumper said:

This is an article I found, as from your comments I thought Chris had shot someone.  It is very sad, but I do wonder.  Would welcome further input.  Maybe this has been covered in other threads; I don’t know.  

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2019/08/23/chris-soules-former-bachelor-star-receives-two-year-suspended-term-role-fatal-crash/2098633001/

From what I remember, Chris had fled the scene of the accident, hid out at someone's house, and refused police officers' requests to come out for several hours (presumably to clear some of the alcohol out of his system). He would most definitely not have gotten off as easily if his family hadn't been able to afford good lawyers.

ETA: Regarding Rachael, I guess it's not impossible that if she grew up in an alt-right, racist environment (Cummigs, GA, is apparently a "sundown" town) those views would have been instilled in her from early childhood, but if she broadened her horizons in young adulthood (by moving away for college, for example), she may know better now and regret her actions. But in that case, there would probably be some social media evidence of her changing views, and I haven't seen any.

Edited February 3, 2021 by chocolatine

[catrice2]

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I don't think they'll pick Katie only because she has been calling out all the behaviour this show tries to cultivate so the chances of her "playing by the rules" of Bach-World are slim. If they told her to keep a Victoria type who is really just there to stir up drama, she might say no because she's shown that she isn't into the drama. 

I like her so I also would like to think she is a one and done girl. She came, had the experience and will then get on with her real life. I have seen what they do to Leads. I don't want that for her. 

I don't even know who that is, but I do appreciate people who come and then get on with their life. 

[phlebas]

11 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I don't think they'll pick Katie only because she has been calling out all the behaviour this show tries to cultivate so the chances of her "playing by the rules" of Bach-World are slim.

I agree, but I also think wielding that vibrator with such confidence scared ABC off immediately.

They were fine with Sir Fuxalot Weber, but a woman who admits to taking care of her own business will (they think) give a large segment of their viewership the vapors.

 It's a ridiculous double-standard, and I hope i'm being overly cynical -- I think Katie would be hilarious -- but I don't know that ABC has realized we're not the same society who was sooooooo scandalized by Kaitlyn's sex-positivity.

 I'd love to be wrong. I hope they ask her. Or at least invite her to BiP.

[Lemons]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:55 AM, Jeanne222 said:

Humm if she's racist why would she be trying to marry Matt, a black man?  Color me confused.

She's not trying to marry Matt, she's trying to become famous without the hard work and talent it usually takes. 

[Kiss my mutt]

Hannah B wasn’t exactly coy about who she slept with, how many times and where, so I can’t imagine ABC suddenly deciding it’s too much. I think it was more of a joke than a statement on masturbation. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Kiss my mutt

[Stats Queen]

On 2/2/2021 at 9:05 PM, chocolatine said:

From what I remember, Chris had fled the scene of the accident, hid out at someone's house, and refused police officers' requests to come out for several hours (presumably to clear some of the alcohol out of his system). He would most definitely not have gotten off as easily if his family hadn't been able to afford good lawyers.

ETA: Regarding Rachael, I guess it's not impossible that if she grew up in an alt-right, racist environment (Cummigs, GA, is apparently a "sundown" town) those views would have been instilled in her from early childhood, but if she broadened her horizons in young adulthood (by moving away for college, for example), she may know better now and regret her actions. But in that case, there would probably be some social media evidence of her changing views, and I haven't seen any.

 

Never mind 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Stats Queen

[CindyBee]

I wonder with the the Kappa Alpha order ball photos now out there if Matt will be encouraged to pull a Mesnick (and Ari) and dump Rachael and either become single or ask for another shot with Michelle?    Whatever is coming its going to be a big ole mess.

[Kiss my mutt]

2 hours ago, CindyBee said:

I wonder with the the Kappa Alpha order ball photos now out there if Matt will be encouraged to pull a Mesnick (and Ari) and dump Rachael and either become single or ask for another shot with Michelle?    Whatever is coming its going to be a big ole mess.

I sure hope so. 

[catrice2]

No. Matt will stick by Rachel.  They will go on Bachelor friendly shows that ABC owns or are affiliated with and tell their story and talk about the toxic culture of social media.  Mind you, it was ok for social media to decide who others are from the edited versions on the show, but social media will be criticized for making assumptions on other things that they have seen about her  and it will be said it was out of context, which is hypocrisy at its finest.  They would never dare expose themselves to an interviewer that is going to ask the hard questions. 

Matt will talk about Christian forgiveness (if she even admits to anything) and that will be that.   I am sure he has forgiven or overlooked a TON of things.  My understanding is that some of her problematic likes, etc have been within the last year or so.  

 I believe that people can change. It would be a sad world if we couldn't and I do think people should be given some grace.....BUT...  although BLM and other issues have made some people look at things in a different way, you don't get rid of racists beliefs in a matter of months.  It takes years to do the work and unlearn behaviors that are second nature.   Just because you start posting certain thing and liking things, that means nothing, and for it to be recently ( i.e, since she knew she was cast on the show and/or entered into a relationship with Matt) that is even more suspect.  Most people I know who wanted to "have the conversation" admitted that they were looking at things a different way, but that they were going to do the work to learn.  IMO, you need to do that before you enter into a serious relationship. You don't just wake up one day and all of those feelings are gone. 

You can have friends of another race or even marry someone of another race and still have racist views and prejudices...that is a fact.  There are also black people who despise other Black people ( which is a whole other issue)  and those could be the type of friends those people have. I have had to xxx people who told me, " I don't see you as Black, or "you are not like other black people."  People have had fetishes about Black men and Black women for years, going back to slavery days.  Plenty of slave owners were willing to mate with their slaves while also dehumanizing them.  So in addition to the "fame" and association of being of the show I wish people would stop posting, " well why would she go on the show? Why would she date him?  That is tiring.  To be honest, since he is Bi Racial that is something a lot of racist people hold on to as why they are ok...because they are not "full" black and the children probably won't be dark. 

The fact of the matter is .......it is not good enough to be not racist, you have to also be ANTI racist, which means that if your friends and family are still posting and doing racist things, you should be far, far away or standing up to them, not liking anything they do or say that is even remotely questionable. 

All that being said, Rachael could be perfectly innocent of everything, but I think if nothing else her situation has opened a good conversation and shows the hypocrisy in Bachelor nation.   After the Lee situation if it turns out to be true, shame on ABC for not doing a better job if these things were evident on her social media, which allegedly was scrubbed of even more questionable things.  I think ABC does certain things so that they can say, "hey, we tried the minority thing, the ratings were not high, we are a business, we have to do what works."  I've been told that even though the show had a number of minority women, the editing has been mostly around the drama of the white women and bullying which is turning off the audience...why am I not surprised? I am sure there were other things they could have edited it to show.  Supposedly they left a whole feud with Rachel L and someone out of the seasons she was on, because they knew they were grooming her for Bachelorette.  I saw some graph that showed the amount of screen time each person gets....and guess who is getting the most? They also cast mostly bi racial black women and without watching I bet that is mostly who is left. 

Everything I have seen and heard Matt say indicates he wants to identify as a Biracial  Man, not a black man, which is his choice and was the choice of ABC. He gives me ugh vibes either way just from seeming to lack maturity, while also seeming to be a nice guy in media. It also fits their track record of casting "black" people who are bi -racial, because I think they feel it is more accepting by their audience. 

 I am basing that on the stupid Tik Toks I've been shown which are enough for me to think he is not ready to b a husband to anyone except someone who thinks frat boy behavior is cute.  Matt has no identify beyond Tyler and Hannah's friend.  The day of the insurrection my friend said he was posting golfing pictures until people started complaining, then posted a story of him at Zoom Bible study, with all non minority men.   Matt gives conservative Christian "right" leaning vibes (as did Tayshia) , which is perfectly fine, but ABC knows that is not what the minority audience wanted in their first minority bachelor.  They also know however,  that IS what would please its wider audience.   Throw in having an absentee black father and mostly (that he shows anyway) white friends, and he was perfect.  Just more reasons why Rachael would be more comfortable with him.  

I don't have an issue with Matt or necessarily Rachael or the viewers.  When it comes to this show, I have always had an issue with ABC.  I had no issue with them not having minority leads...believe me, and when they did, I knew without a doubt they would edit the shows a certain way or focus on certain things.   So no surprises here. 

[hyacinth]

Well, Katie chosen for the Bachelorette!    I liked Katie and her sparkly dildo from the start, and mentioned it in a post at the time when most of the other posts were dildo negative.   

Edited February 7, 2021 by hyacinth

[catrice2]

Where's my post about them choosing someone outside of the top 4? Or even at this point the top 5?   Just because Katie was edited to be outspoken about the issues in the house that somehow makes her a great choice, or outspoken about self love?   Based on comments, any other time people are dragging the person who is talking about other's behaviors, like Ed on Tayshia's season that I did watch.   If that is what she is spending her time doing, what other than that, makes her the best choice out of all the other girls? Seriously asking....has there been anything else revealed about her that is interesting?  She has a vibrator, and she must have been edited not to be a part of bullying, but she was part of the drama if she was the one reporting on it.   I am sure there were probably other girls that were edited to appear they were a part of it and were not, and yet others who stayed out of it too...but didn't tell Matt. AT this point is anyone even sure that no one else spoke to Matt about it?  It is crazy how people just believe editing on any of these people. 

If anything her tattling and convos probably took time away from other people in the house they could have been focusing on, especially as it doesn't sound like she and Matt had any romantic time? 

[Crashcourse]

Katie as the Bachelorette?  Nah, I won't be watching. 

[funnygirl]

I sure hope Michelle, Bri, Serena and Abigail turned it down. If not, how suspect that 4 of the top 5 are WOC and ABC/tptb reach back beyond them for the next available white woman for Bachelorette. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by funnygirl

[phlebas]

I'm excited about Katie.  She should be fun. 30 is a great age for this.  Now how about some guys from the same cloth as last Bachelorette?

I'm assuming the best from Rachel too, until there's reason to believe otherwise.

When's the premiere?

[DEL901]

8 hours ago, phlebas said:

I'm excited about Katie.  She should be fun. 30 is a great age for this.  Now how about some guys from the same cloth as last Bachelorette?

I'm assuming the best from Rachel too, until there's reason to believe otherwise.

When's the premiere?

I don’t think they have started filming yet.  Probably not airing until late spring through early summer, is my guess, finishing up in time for BIP in August.  

Edited February 8, 2021 by DEL901

[Thumper]

I am confused.  Isn’t Katie still on the current show?  So by announcing she is the B’ette, that tells us she is not a finalist?  Maybe I am missing something.  Not a veteran viewer.  lol

[dizzyd]

They should have at least waited till he sends her home tonight.

[SallyAlbright]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:44 AM, hyacinth said:

Well, Katie chosen for the Bachelorette!    I liked Katie and her sparkly dildo from the start, and mentioned it in a post at the time when most of the other posts were dildo negative.   

I suppose I was one of the "dildo negative" ones but I didn't care about her bringing her vibrator in itself. I minded her literally hitting other people and touching other people with it. I have OCD and that would have given me a panic attack. 

I've liked Katie better in every other episode, though. And I'm hoping that her being 29/30 means we can have some more 30-something guys, more like Tayshia/Clare's crop that had actual jobs and personalities! 

[rlc]

It’s the very least they can do for Katie after bringing her to a spa for a date, and then forcing her to watch someone else get a massage without getting one herself.

[Thumper]

2 minutes ago, rlc said:

It’s the very least they can do for Katie after bringing her to a spa for a date, and then forcing her to watch someone else get a massage without getting one herself.

Good point.  I want the massage!!!! 😁

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, Thumper said:

I am confused.  Isn’t Katie still on the current show?  So by announcing she is the B’ette, that tells us she is not a finalist?  Maybe I am missing something.  Not a veteran viewer.  lol

My guess is that they are trying to distract from the current scandal by giving people someone they have obviously propped up in social media....as well as signaling to their base that they are going back to "normal," so they don't have to be worried about watching whatever the next season is....

[goofygirl]

New viewer here. WHO THE HELL IS HEATHER????

And do they ALWAYS let somebody else just stroll in on a date??

Edited February 9, 2021 by goofygirl

[Thumper]

18 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

My guess is that they are trying to distract from the current scandal by giving people someone they have obviously propped up in social media....as well as signaling to their base that they are going back to "normal," so they don't have to be worried about watching whatever the next season is....

Wait ... what is the “current scandal?”

[adore]

1 hour ago, SallyAlbright said:

I suppose I was one of the "dildo negative" ones but I didn't care about her bringing her vibrator in itself. I minded her literally hitting other people and touching other people with it. I have OCD and that would have given me a panic attack. 

I've liked Katie better in every other episode, though. And I'm hoping that her being 29/30 means we can have some more 30-something guys, more like Tayshia/Clare's crop that had actual jobs and personalities! 

I agree completely. Her sex positivity shouldn't interfere with someone's personal space. I can't imagine what I would do if a random guy were hitting me with a butt plug or something.

 

That said, Katie seems ok and I will probably tune in for the first few episodes. I just hope she isn't Edgelord Kaitlyn Bristowe 2.0.