The Bachelor Season 25: Spoilers and Speculation

[rebel2u]

2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Who is carried away? I am not suggesting that anyone was "set up" because they are a person of color, what I SAID was that the POC got the budget seasons. They had waited that long to have one, why give them the seasons where they could not travel?  Why not wait until  it was the "full" experience?   They could  have given both seasons a lot more consideration.   I SAID that they did it as a backlash to the climate and they got short changed.   Also, when Clare was chosen it was not COVID.    Matt got a nicer surrounding because they learned from Tayshia/Claire's season.  

Thank you. 

I think with all the things happening in the country (George Floyd, BLM, Rachel Lindsey's threat to quit the franchise if things didn't change), TPTB would have gotten a lot more flak had they not stepped up to the plate and made the choice of of a POC for bachelor/ette.  It was either the covid "budget season" or no POC.  Apparently it turned out to be a catch-22 for TPTB; they couldn't win either way.

[Mu Shu]

On 2/13/2021 at 3:51 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

Let’s, not be carried away, I don’t think Tayshia’s set up was because she was a poc. I think it was just a matter of trying to figure out how to manage in a COVID-19 world. Plus, Clare, was initially chosen and she is not seen as a poc and Matt has gotten nicer surroundings and he is a poc. I think they are trying to figure out the best way to stretch the parameters to make it like past seasons and feeling more comfortable on how to handle things since they’ve had a COVID-19 era season since then.  
And honestly, I thought Tayshia’s season was one of the best because it fostered more communication and quality time, not just the flash and bang of glamorous or adventurous dates. 

I thought Tayshia did great. She came in after Claire’s shit show and turned it around. Probably got a bonus. 

[DEL901]

Well, if there was any doubt Rachael was F1, the last part of the group date settled that.   The rest might as well pack their bags and forgo the humiliation of bringing their families into this lost cause. 

[DEL901]

I was thinking about who could host ATFR.   Some are suggesting Rachel L, but with Rachael as F1, how awkward would that be?

[Jax7917]

I know it’s too rational to ask for , but I really wish a bachelor/ette would be chosen based on who they are as a person rather than factoring race in at all . And I wish whoever did/ does get chosen , doesn’t get backlash because they are or aren’t a specific race . Frankly , I wouldn’t choose any of the girls this season to be the next bachelorette . They ALL have come off as bullies , petty and extremely immature . I can’t think of any that I like besides maybe Michelle and Katie but I can’t tell if it’s just because they look good compared to the rest or if I actually like them . I think the bottom line with this show is that race is in the center of all of this mess , but the problem for me with this show are the ages of the contestants . Having 21-23 year olds is just cringeworthy and if it were just a dating show or bachelor in paradise  , it would be fine .. but the entire premise is to get engaged and when you have contestants like Kit on who could still be in diapers , It’s just not realistic for the premise . 

[Boo Boo]

Is it wrong for me to hope he chooses Rachael?  I mean, imagine how embarrassing this would be for the franchise -- first Black Bachelor chooses woman who attended an Antebellum party and apparently liked racist SM posts, gets defended by the host who has to step aside, and then ultimately gets the engagement. 

[Kiss my mutt]

I think Michelle has the personality for the Bachelorette.  When she dropped and started doing push-ups in the outtakes at the rose ceremony so her arms would look good when they started filming was great. First time I cracked a smile the entire episode. 

[LBS]

19 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

think Michelle has the personality for the Bachelorette.  When she dropped and started doing push-ups in the outtakes at the rose ceremony so her arms would look good when they started filming was great. First time I cracked a smile the entire episode. 

OMG - I forgot about that part!  That was funny and I wish we’d see more of that!  Michelle for bachelorette!

[Crashcourse]

As pleasant as Michelle seems to be, I just don't think she's that attractive, and I'm not so sure the Bachelorette men would either.  JMHO 

[alexa]

3 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

As pleasant as Michelle seems to be, I just don't think she's that attractive, and I'm not so sure the Bachelorette men would either.  JMHO 

I agree.  She has a great personality, but she isn't all that pretty (not in a conventional way).  

[Kiss my mutt]

51 minutes ago, alexa said:

I agree.  She has a great personality, but she isn't all that pretty (not in a conventional way).  

True, but Katie isn’t either, though I think she’s not in the running from what I understand. Maybe they should take the season off anyway! 

[Irlandesa]

9 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

Is it wrong for me to hope he chooses Rachael?  I mean, imagine how embarrassing this would be for the franchise -- first Black Bachelor chooses woman who attended an Antebellum party and apparently liked racist SM posts, gets defended by the host who has to step aside, and then ultimately gets the engagement. 

If rumors are correct, you get your wish.  I think this is the only reason they had Chris out there trying to run interference. They made such a big deal about Matt being their first bachelor that I don't think they want the narrative to be that he ends up with a racist.  They didn't do that for Lee.

6 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I think Michelle has the personality for the Bachelorette.  When she dropped and started doing push-ups in the outtakes at the rose ceremony so her arms would look good when they started filming was great. First time I cracked a smile the entire episode. 

The problem is that they probably wouldn't showcase that side of her.  It's telling that they held that back for the outtakes even though showing everyone laughing at the pushups was the most likable any of them have been all season. 

[TheFinalRose]

Let's say they have Bri, Abigail, and Katie share the lead and make the men vote on night one, like they did with Kaityln and oh, gosh, what's her name? They might need to do that to get out of this jam they are in. 

[Boo Boo]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

If rumors are correct, you get your wish.  I think this is the only reason they had Chris out there trying to run interference. They made such a big deal about Matt being their first bachelor that I don't think they want the narrative to be that he ends up with a racist.  They didn't do that for Lee.

 

Ah, interesting.

You would think Chris would've been given a good PR run down of what not to say, what to say.  

[Lamb18]

I don't think Michelle would be Bachelorette unless she took a full year sabbatical (she already took the fall off) or quit teaching. I'd like to see Chelsea as Bachelorette. Heather would be one of the prettiest bachelorettes but I don't know if she could handle the guys. Tayshia had a lot of poise. I think Chelsea could handle it, too. But it depends on if she can take more time off from her modeling career.

[phlebas]

I don't know if Abigail would be a great Bachelorette, but I would be into it just to have her on my screen for another season.  But I'm fine with Bri/Michelle/Katie too.  Let's just not get the men from the same cast-off store where they got Hannah's crew.

[Back Atcha]

On 2/16/2021 at 7:17 AM, Jax7917 said:

I know it’s too rational to ask for , but I really wish a bachelor/ette would be chosen based on who they are as a person rather than factoring race in at all .

That's what should have been considered when "The Bachelor" first started.  Problem is, it was "too white for too long," and in trying to remedy that (after years of complaints), they've messed it up.  I assume this franchise will last and get worse because TV is getting trashier every day.  Chris Harrison should be moved to something else--or the pasture.  It's been all about him for too long now.

[catrice2]

Certainly everyone has their own idea of beauty, but a quick Google search and the only person I would call gorgeous is Tayshia, and she has a  long pointed face ( like mine).  I certainly don't think that Michelle is any worse than many of the others that have been on the show, and just as attractive as an Abigail or a Katie for sure, unless they look much better than their Bio pictures.  I guess it would depend on what men were cast to determine  if they find her attractive.  I'll bet many of the men on every season hasn't really found the Bachelorette attractive...it is the thrill of being in Bachelor Nation, being on TV or getting endorsements and new friends. 

So Becca, Kaitlyn  JIllian, Meredith etc. are what we are calling beautiful?  I mean, is that a requirement for being a Bachelorette or the Bachelor ?  because most of them are not what I would call attractive.   I think giving them the title ( and for the women long scraggly extensions) makes them attractive to people.  Certainly the right clothes, contour and hair can do a lot..... 
Michelle has gorgeous eyes. 

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by catrice2

[Jeanne222]

When Michelle speaks she glows!  She does have a unique look that just sparkles during conversations.

I think there is so much depth to her.  She would make an amazing bachelorette!

[funnygirl]

14 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

When Michelle speaks she glows!  She does have a unique look that just sparkles during conversations.

I think there is so much depth to her.  She would make an amazing bachelorette!

At the same time, I don't want her to get so wrapped up in this franchise that she gets tainted. So as much as I'd root for her if she were the Bachelorette, I'm also totally okay with her never associating herself with BN again after Matt - who at this point she's too good for - breaks her heart. 

[catrice2]

If the spoilers are true next week is going to be a mess. 

[TiredMe]

Reported that they already broke up. So ultimately he ends up with no one.

[Kiss my mutt]

Maybe Claire can trade Dale in for Matt! 

[catrice2]

Looking at the Bio's matt likes them young, Clare is not an option. 

[Kiss my mutt]

1 minute ago, catrice2 said:

Looking at the Bio's matt likes them young, Clare is not an option. 

Yeah, I wasn’t serious 🙄

[Diana Berry]

Michelle seems so sweet.  It’s going to hurt that Matt breaks her heart.  Unless he tries to get a second chance afternoon the Rachael debaucle.

[tinkerbell]

2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

If the spoilers are true next week is going to be a mess. 

This IS the spoiler thread, so -  SPILL!

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

Michelle seems so sweet.  It’s going to hurt that Matt breaks her heart.

Eh, I doubt that she was really that invested in him. Even if they had ended up together, she's way out of his league and would have gotten bored of him after a few weeks.

Edited February 23, 2021 by chocolatine

[alexa]

I just wanted to mention that the beard shown in the preview for next week scares me.  Lol!

[JenE4]

This isn’t a spoiler, but speculation. If there is any truth above to Matt and Rachel having broken up, the preview had Serena possibly regretting leaving, so maybe the two of them would give it a shot in the real world without any pressure of imminent engagement.

[tinkerbell]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

This isn’t a spoiler, but speculation. If there is any truth above to Matt and Rachel having broken up, the preview had Serena possibly regretting leaving, so maybe the two of them would give it a shot in the real world without any pressure of imminent engagement.

I don' know -  once Serena sees him bald with a shaggy beard, she might wonder why she even considered dating him at all. 

[JenE4]

Matt James and His ‘Bachelor’ Winner Have Reportedly Broken Up
Reality Steve confirmed the news.

Read in Cosmopolitan: 

https://apple.news/AeJCpr5XFT6-ldwcNyEdTnw

[Lilac2000]

Most awkward ATFR ever. Will they even do one? Yikes.

[Bluesky]

On 2/16/2021 at 8:18 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

True, but Katie isn’t either, though I think she’s not in the running from what I understand. Maybe they should take the season off anyway! 

Or find someone interesting and the type that men are attracted to.  It was so obvious last time that the bachelors were not into Clare.  
 

The type of guys they pick can be on the douchey side.  They would not be interested in michelle or Katie, not “hot” enough.  

[Kiss my mutt]

9 minutes ago, Bluesky said:

Or find someone interesting and the type that men are attracted to.  It was so obvious last time that the bachelors were not into Clare.  
 

The type of guys they pick can be on the douchey side.  They would not be interested in michelle or Katie, not “hot” enough.  

Or pick less douchier guys! Lol

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Matt James and His ‘Bachelor’ Winner Have Reportedly Broken Up
Reality Steve confirmed the news.

Read in Cosmopolitan: 

https://apple.news/AeJCpr5XFT6-ldwcNyEdTnw

This show is so tone deaf I'd almost put money on them making her bachelorette for a redemption arc.  Almost.

Reality Steve tried to sell that Tayshia and her pick probably weren't engaged and then he reported they had broken up prior to the finale too and that clearly didn't happen. 

He does seem more sure about this, though.  But I actually suspected they weren't really together together for a while--just ready to go through the motions.  I think some of the stuff that came out of her past put an end to his willingness to go through the charade.

[MaryAnneSpier]

I also saw just yesterday that Reality Steve says they had initially cast Katie as next Bachelorette, but now with how all of Matt's post-show stuff is going, ABC have switched gears and cast someone else. What would Lindsay's stuff have to do with the next season of Bachelorette that would make them recast? The only thing I can think of is that Katie is white, and ABC want to reinforce they aren't racist so they're casting another POC for the lead..? 

[weightyghost]

1 hour ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

I also saw just yesterday that Reality Steve says they had initially cast Katie as next Bachelorette, but now with how all of Matt's post-show stuff is going, ABC have switched gears and cast someone else. What would Lindsay's stuff have to do with the next season of Bachelorette that would make them recast? The only thing I can think of is that Katie is white, and ABC want to reinforce they aren't racist so they're casting another POC for the lead..? 

When it was first announced she was the pick, people were already confused as to why they chose someone who didn't even crack the top 10.

When you consider 7/10 final women are women of colour and they are skipped over entirely to chose a white top 11 finisher...  I like Katie and all but she is not any more interesting than Bri, Michelle, Serena, etc. They chose her because her and Rachel have the highest social media following and Rachel isn't exactly a good pick right now. 

[catrice2]

5 hours ago, weightyghost said:

When it was first announced she was the pick, people were already confused as to why they chose someone who didn't even crack the top 10.

When you consider 7/10 final women are women of colour and they are skipped over entirely to chose a white top 11 finisher...  I like Katie and all but she is not any more interesting than Bri, Michelle, Serena, etc. They chose her because her and Rachel have the highest social media following and Rachel isn't exactly a good pick right now. 

And worse from what I read there were other women in the house not involved in the drama but they chose to edit her as the "good" one in the house and portray her a certain way at the expense of showing other women. 

From what I understand of Reality Steve he is not always right.  Maybe she was never offered the role of the Bachelorette but if the tradition is (and I don't know) to choose someone in the top 6 or so (I'm told usually the top 4) why was she considered anyway?  What makes her more worthy than anyone who finished above her, whether they were black, white or whatever? 

I am also told the past they had offered it and filmed an intro for a Calia? and then took it away from her and gave it to someone else . Was there outrage?  

I see so many people worried about having 3 or 4 POC in a row.  I will just assume those same people were wondering in the past why they were having 4 or 5 non minorities in a row?   

I actually don't really care because the audience is largely non minority and I think minorities should not want to be on a show that considers them not worthy of air time, storytelling or leading a season. 

 

[chocolatine]

11 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

I am also told the past they had offered it and filmed an intro for a Calia? and then took it away from her and gave it to someone else . Was there outrage?

The show sometimes doesn't make a firm decision up until the last minute and has two people film intro packages. In the case that you mentioned, they had both JoJo and Caila film packages and ultimately chose JoJo, and there was no outrage that I remember. I believe they also had Luke Pell film an into package before deciding to go with Arie.

[Irlandesa]

11 hours ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

I also saw just yesterday that Reality Steve says they had initially cast Katie as next Bachelorette, but now with how all of Matt's post-show stuff is going, ABC have switched gears and cast someone else.

Reality Steve is hedging his bets, I think.  First he said they announced it at Women Tell All that it was Katie.  After Katie (and some others) have said that it's news to them, he walked back the comment and said that during WTA is when it was discovered but it was not announced at the event.  Now he's saying they're switching course so if they announce someone else, he was never "wrong" about the Katie pick.

I liked Katie.  I don't think she was the only one not involved in the drama but I think her profile was raised because she chose to take on some of the bullying.  That's why she's liked...not just because she chose to stay out of it. But it would be pretty unusual for someone who was released rather early to be the next lead.  It might be worth it for the show, though, since she probably had more airtime than most of the women in the Top 4.

I think she's probably still in the running but i doubt she's the only one.   Last season, it was supposedly neck and neck between Clare and Tayshia for lead but then they went with Clare.  As soon as Clare did her Dale thing, they were ready to pull in Tayshia because they had already vetted her as a potential lead. 

[Lamb18]

I'd like to see Serena P as the next lead. I go by who would I be the most interested in seeing again. I like Michelle, too, but I'm afraid the TPTB would not think she is pretty enough. It would also conflict with teaching.

[JudyObscure]

Just guessing, but I think the show might have had an entirely different theme in mind for this season.  Just as the 'theme" for Hannah Brown's season was female empowerment with the "You Don't Own Me," song giving us a clue.   I think maybe this year they were expecting to have an anti-bullying theme.  That would explain Victoria as a producer plant  and the decision to bring in some of the women weeks later.  Create a situation where anger and bullying might happen, then have someone like Katie (who always sounded scripted to me) as the break out star and a possible pick for the next B'ette.  I'm not saying  Katie wasn't sincere, as an Instagram star she may already have been making anti-bullying speeches online and that was why she was cast.

Instead, social media turned this season into an entirely different theme and Katie is now very old news. Imagine how the show runner's heads must have been spinning. It doesn't take Reality Steve to guess that next season will probably be steered toward educational lessons from someone like Rachel Lindsey and the lead will be Michelle or Serena.

I also wonder if it's,  "the lead is usually  chosen from the final four," or "one of the final four is chosen by the producers to forward their next choice for lead."  

[catrice2]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Just guessing, but I think the show might have had an entirely different theme in mind for this season.  Just as the 'theme" for Hannah Brown's season was female empowerment with the "You Don't Own Me," song giving us a clue.   I think maybe this year they were expecting to have an anti-bullying theme.  That would explain Victoria as a producer plant  and the decision to bring in some of the women weeks later.  Create a situation where anger and bullying might happen, then have someone like Katie (who always sounded scripted to me) as the break out star and a possible pick for the next B'ette.  I'm not saying  Katie wasn't sincere, as an Instagram star she may already have been making anti-bullying speeches online and that was why she was cast.

Instead, social media turned this season into an entirely different theme and Katie is now very old news. Imagine how the show runner's heads must have been spinning. It doesn't take Reality Steve to guess that next season will probably be steered toward educational lessons from someone like Rachel Lindsey and the lead will be Michelle or Serena.

I also wonder if it's,  "the lead is usually  chosen from the final four," or "one of the final four is chosen by the producers to forward their next choice for lead."  

Because I am cynical....I believe your last line is probably true....which is why Ben was allowed to hang around and come back for Tayshia when they already had a defacto final 2 due to the turtleneck guy leaving...if everyone who was upset about how their exit went down or who was eliminated was allowed to  get sent home and just come back and talk then why wouldn't everyone do it? There had to be an agenda.... 

I don't know the ins and outs  about the whole Katie situation but you are probably right about that too....

[phlebas]

I'm guessing too, but I think initially ABC/production was thinking "okay, we're no longer racists! Two black leads in a row!" and also "we even fixed the thing about the olds, even though that didn't work out."  So then they were "WHOA She brought a vibrator -- we haven't had anyone so openly sex-positive since Kaitlyn, and everyone loves Kaitlyn now!" plus Katie's stance against bullying.

Then things hit the fan and they had to think about race again (though I personally think they will go with Abigail -- half-Korean and a disability and a fan favorite).

I adore Serena P, but I don't want any more leads under 25 years old or so.

[catrice2]

Have they always had young leads in the past?  I saw Part of Rachel, and she was older, and episode of Nick and he was older  (I think?)  Some of Tayshia after Clare had left and I think she as at least 28 or so.  I think  remember that Rachel's men other then her choice were generally younger than her and thinking because of that she would not choose anyone. 

That is probably one of the reasons the couples don't last if that is true.  You'd have to be really mature to go through that process and the attention that goes along with it in your early 20's.  I know it is shallow but if I was in my early twenties and came out insta famous with all these career opportunities I don't know if I would be ready to settle down...

[tinkerbell]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Just guessing, but I think the show might have had an entirely different theme in mind for this season.  Just as the 'theme" for Hannah Brown's season was female empowerment with the "You Don't Own Me," song giving us a clue.   I think maybe this year they were expecting to have an anti-bullying theme.  That would explain Victoria as a producer plant  and the decision to bring in some of the women weeks later.  Create a situation where anger and bullying might happen, then have someone like Katie (who always sounded scripted to me) as the break out star and a possible pick for the next B'ette.  I'm not saying  Katie wasn't sincere, as an Instagram star she may already have been making anti-bullying speeches online and that was why she was cast.

Instead, social media turned this season into an entirely different theme and Katie is now very old news. Imagine how the show runner's heads must have been spinning. It doesn't take Reality Steve to guess that next season will probably be steered toward educational lessons from someone like Rachel Lindsey and the lead will be Michelle or Serena.

I also wonder if it's,  "the lead is usually  chosen from the final four," or "one of the final four is chosen by the producers to forward their next choice for lead."  

Yes -  I thought some of what Katie was doing was scripted and fake.   primarily, because in at least one instance, one woman said something catty or mean, and the camera goes to Katie, who is looking pained.  then, she is the one to follow women out if they leave upset.  It seemed she was very aware of her "role"  which was to be the "bullying police".  this sets her up as the lead for the next season.  

I also think that some of the mean comments were likely encouraged by producers.  It doesn't take much -  " do you think it's fair that these new girls get to join now, when you're still waiting for your time with Matt? aren't you mad?"  Then the women talk with each other and spread that sentiment. 

[Recyclorette]

Can someone tell me how all the information and photos of Rachael Kirkconnell came to light in the first place?  Forgive me if that's obvious at this point but, for all the discussion and comments I've seen, I've never read how this racist issue began.

[CindyBee]

1 hour ago, Recyclorette said:

Can someone tell me how all the information and photos of Rachael Kirkconnell came to light in the first place?  Forgive me if that's obvious at this point but, for all the discussion and comments I've seen, I've never read how this racist issue began.

It started over on Reddit.   She never really hid her social media presence and as people delved back into her likes and posts, they came across some that were questionable.  Then one poster had access to the "Old South" party photos and posted them (with all the other girls' faces crossed out) and it took off from there.  

[Recyclorette]

10 minutes ago, CindyBee said:

It started over on Reddit.   She never really hid her social media presence and as people delved back into her likes and posts, they came across some that were questionable.  Then one poster had access to the "Old South" party photos and posted them (with all the other girls' faces crossed out) and it took off from there.  

Thank you, CindyBee!