S04.E12: A Hell of a Week: Part Two

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Geez, how many hours before they need to leave the house do these people get up??!

I was wondering that as well.  From last week, it looks like Randall came over to do his laundry, found out the dryer is not working, and tried to fix it all before he had class.  Rebecca is getting ready to go to work.  Kate is awake, dressed, and already on the phone with Mark.  I have no idea what time of day those scenes are supposed to be.  

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Geez, how many hours before they need to leave the house do these people get up??!

Right? I'm lucky if I have time to halfway dry my hair after my shower.

[Guiltypleasure25]

On 1/29/2020 at 9:28 AM, Wouldofshouldof said:

And don't get me started with what Shameless does with Chicago and its weather.

OT but yes time and weather don’t exist in Shameless’s Chicago.

13 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I was wondering that as well.  From last week, it looks like Randall came over to do his laundry, found out the dryer is not working, and tried to fix it all before he had class.  Rebecca is getting ready to go to work.  Kate is awake, dressed, and already on the phone with Mark.  I have no idea what time of day those scenes are supposed to be.  

Maybe Rebbecca works afternoons??

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I was wondering that as well.  From last week, it looks like Randall came over to do his laundry, found out the dryer is not working, and tried to fix it all before he had class.  Rebecca is getting ready to go to work.  Kate is awake, dressed, and already on the phone with Mark.  I have no idea what time of day those scenes are supposed to be.  

I mean...in Randall's case, he could have had a later class; it's college, so classes don't all start at 8am. But yeah, with Rebecca needing to rush off to work but it's not likely that her job starts in the afternoon, it throws off my theory. Unless he stayed the night before, and they were trying to start laundry at, like, 7am? But then, with Kevin and Sophie showing up early as well, I doubt that they drove in that early! So who knows?

In TIU's world, it's whatever time that you want it to be! The show runs on Pearson Time, anyway!

[Blakeston]

1 hour ago, kilda said:

in fairness to them, in the 1980s the conventional wisdom was that the right way to go in transracial adoption was to "not see race."  Remember when Jack said "I don't see color, I just see my son"?  If they did read a book about it, that's exactly the attitude it would have recommended.

I think that was more the attitude in the '60s and '70s. By the late eighties, placing black children in black homes was considered far preferable to putting them in white ones. Some agencies refused to place black children with white families altogether.

I'm sure there were plenty of people in the eighties who went around saying "I don't see race" (just like there are plenty of people who say that today).

But Jack and Rebecca had already dealt with the African-American judge who didn't want to place Randall with them, and he had laid out for them exactly why Randall needed black people in his life to help him navigate race in America. They had no excuse for their failure to let him interact with other black people.

[smartymarty]

6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

In TIU's world, it's whatever time that you want it to be!

(I watched Men in Trees, where it was the same time in Alaska as in NYC.)

[Ohiopirate02]

9 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I mean...in Randall's case, he could have had a later class; it's college, so classes don't all start at 8am. But yeah, with Rebecca needing to rush off to work but it's not likely that her job starts in the afternoon, it throws off my theory. Unless he stayed the night before, and they were trying to start laundry at, like, 7am? But then, with Kevin and Sophie showing up early as well, I doubt that they drove in that early! So who knows?

In TIU's world, it's whatever time that you want it to be! The show runs on Pearson Time, anyway!

Sophie and Kevin are 18, the right age to decide that driving all night is a good thing to do.  Stop at a gas station, pick up some sugary snack and some Surge, and they would be set for hours.  I think Sophie mentioned that her class was cancelled, but I took that to mean an early morning one that day instead of the night before.  I know when I was their age, staying up all night was preferable to waking up early.  

[Pallas]

Rebecca probably had a few sore spots regarding 18-year-old Kevin and Sophie -- or really, Kevin, over the past year.  When he'd been trying to hide from himself by escaping from his family, with Sophie. And it would be like Rebecca not to acknowledge her pain to herself.

The wound that's most irrational and raw is that "with Sophie" is where Kevin was in Jack's last hours. Worrying about Kevin is one of the last things Jack did, after Kevin told his parents that their lives were his worst possible fate, and walked out of the house. "With Sophie" is where Kevin still was when their home caught on fire and his father rescued everyone, but died.

Kevin didn't leave Bethel Park the next fall in order to go to college; he followed Sophie to New York, where she was enrolled at NYU and he decided to try acting -- why not? Within months, he and Sophie got married: in New York,  alone. It's as if the only way that Kevin could make peace with his grief for what he lost was to become the boy who's already gone.  

[ChattyCathyLA]

I’m a bit late to the party here, because I just watched it on demand, but I thought Kevin ending up in bed with Madison was a douch-y thing to do, harkening back to the old Kevin getting instant gratification when he’s down, always finding a willing participant, with no concern for whomever he hurts when it’s over.  After all those deep, touching scenes with Sophie, he goes and screws the first girl he comes in contact with??  And, right after she tells him she just got dumped?  Talk about a new low ... what a narcissist!  Especially after that “hall pass” incident!  UGH!  He just proved here that he STILL doesn’t deserve Sophie and isn’t ready for her ... no matter what he said at her mother’s gravesite.  Maybe someday he will earn that emerald ring ... but not yet ...

Edited January 31, 2020 by ChattyCathyLA

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Pallas said:

Rebecca probably had a few sore spots regarding 18-year-old Kevin and Sophie -- or really, Kevin, over the past year.  When he'd been trying to hide from himself by escaping from his family, with Sophie. And it would be like Rebecca not to acknowledge her pain to herself.

The wound that's most irrational and raw is that "with Sophie" is where Kevin was in Jack's last hours. Worrying about Kevin is one of the last things Jack did, after Kevin told his parents that their lives were his worst possible fate, and walked out of the house. "With Sophie" is where Kevin still was when their home caught on fire and his father rescued everyone, but died.

Kevin didn't leave Bethel Park the next fall in order to go to college; he followed Sophie to New York, where she was enrolled at NYU and he decided to try acting -- why not? Within months, he and Sophie got married: in New York,  alone. It's as if the only way that Kevin could make peace with his grief for what he lost was to become the boy who's already gone.  

I get where you are going, but Kevin would have died in the fire if he was at home.  His bedroom was in the basement, and he would not have been able to get out of the house.  Being with Sophie that night saved his life.  

[sasha206]

Am I the only one that hated Sophie's eulogy for the mere fact that I've never seen anyone deliver a eulogy like that?  The speechifying stuff.

Same thing with the ring having a story.  Does every fucking thing on this show have to have some melodramatic story attached to it?

[smartymarty]

Yeah, I understand that people giving eulogies are sad, but her delivery of "and I'll never go to that coffee shop again!" just came across as melodramatic.

The ring story wasn't much of a story. Guy got proposal turned down, vowed to himself to live through war to ask again, was successful later. Typical TIU story of man not giving agency to a woman.

[nixgirl28]

15 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Am I the only one that hated Sophie's eulogy for the mere fact that I've never seen anyone deliver a eulogy like that?  The speechifying stuff.

Same thing with the ring having a story.  Does every fucking thing on this show have to have some melodramatic story attached to it?

I didn't care for her eulogy because it was about herself, not the deceased. Sophie leaving her fiance at the funeral reception to fend for himself all day was weird too. The ring thing was cringey. I too thought she'd pawned it at first.

[ljenkins782]

56 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Am I the only one that hated Sophie's eulogy for the mere fact that I've never seen anyone deliver a eulogy like that?  The speechifying stuff.

Same thing with the ring having a story.  Does every fucking thing on this show have to have some melodramatic story attached to it?

I thought the worst offender on that front was the freaking mobile from over Kevin's bed. Jack's earnest speechifying over a random object was way over the top, even for this show. 

That said, I actually did like this episode just because I'm interested in that period of their lives. I'm dying to get to the Kate story and I love the actress that plays Kate in this era. You can see glimpses of who she might have been if not for her dad's death and whatever goes on with this boyfriend.

At this point, I'm least interested in present-day Randall and utterly depressed by the current-day Rebecca storyline. I used to really enjoy Randall, but all the stuff with the city council and the ballet school stuff just wasn't that interesting to me. And the Rebecca stuff just hits too close to home and is hard to watch. All of the other sadness of the Pearson family, I can take from a removed viewer standpoint, but this is stuff I've been through and it's too depressing to watch on tv too.

So this episode was a nice little break from that. A lot of the details were a little off, like Sophie having a fiancé that she apparently ditched at her own mother's funeral reception to go ride around with Kevin. I don't see a stunt like that flying in real life, but I liked the flashbacks to the just post-Jack's death era.

ETA: this episode made me realize that I have no recollection of how Good Will Hunting ended, despite having seen it several times. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by ljenkins782

[smartymarty]

49 minutes ago, nixgirl28 said:

I didn't care for her eulogy because it was about herself, not the deceased. Sophie leaving her fiance at the funeral reception to fend for himself all day was weird too.

This made me really dislike her and root for her story to be done now. (The fiance thing made me wonder if the break-up of her marriage with Kevin wasn't all Kevin's fault: Sophie seems narcissistic.) No Sophie-Kevin endgame, please. 

[Bringonthedrama]

23 hours ago, Janie430 said:

So my best take on Rebecca's long-term dismissal of Kevin and his work is that it's a bit of jealousy.

She could have gone to LA, or New York, but chose not to do the work.

 He's doing the work she didn't.

Totally agree.

22 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

 She was told she was Pittsburgh Good and that she needed to work to become LA Good.  Rebecca quit LA as soon as she was told she wasn't special enough to immediately land a record deal.  

Yup.

22 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I can't fathom any mother caring so little about her son's career as a major Hollywood star, unless there was some extreme dysfunction involved - like she'd flat-out disowned him.

Have you seen the movie Rocketman, about Elton John's life? His father never bonded with him because he thought he was "weird" and chose to never see him perform. His mother had a line "do you know how disappointing it is to be your mother" and was only interested in his talent/career for how she benefited. His grandmother volunteered to drive him for lessons when he was a child because his mother didn't want to spend her time driving.

It seems like Rebecca just never got invested in Kevin's life and dreams. It's more than just her getting rid of his mobile when he got his bed as a 3-year-old. She didn't notice when he almost drowned at the pool. There was the time when she took Kevin to get his baseball card signed at the local mall because Kevin was upset that Jack couldn't do it, but then she got hungry and tried to demand that Kevin get out of line with her and go to the food court. He refused because he was so close, so she left him there. After Kevin spoke to the VIP and Rebecca asked what Kevin said, she looked pleasantly surprised to hear that her son was such a nice kid. Fast forward to the teenage years, Rebecca resented that Kevin "abandoned" her to go live his life while Randall stayed around to take care of her/be close to her. She didn't ask about his experience being on set, doesn't seem to care that he was on a show. I think she has jealousy that he's had professional showbiz success where she never did, but it seems like she also needed to have unconditional adoration and devotion from her kids, or maybe just her sons, in order to be fully invested in their lives and successes.  The only time I can recall her genuinely appreciating Kevin was in a conversation with Nicky when Kevin wanted to help him. Kevin was not present for that conversation.

19 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Meanwhile, am I the only one that thought Sophie's mother was going to try to bed teen Kevin?  She seemed waaaaaaay too touchy feeley.   

You are not the only one. I was cringing, waiting for her to make a pass at Kevin. 

19 hours ago, kili said:

I wonder if there is a bit of resentment mixed in with that jealousy? During the counselling session in rehab, when Kevin was pressing her about Randall being her favourite, she snapped:

"and he didn't abandon me and move away after his father died."

Kevin not only became a success as a performer, he "abandoned" her to pursue that performing career. So, she may resent his acting. It's not reasonable and he was the child in the situation.

Rebecca can kind of live vicariously through Kate's singing and Kate's not really been as successful as her Mom anyway. Plus, Kate didn't leave her mother after Jack died. Rebecca had no qualms about leaving her own parents to go to LA or her own kids to do a tour, but she believes that Kevin abandoned her and carried that inside her until it popped out in the counselling session.

  Most people would have asked how it was like being on a real set even if his line had been cut from the show. Most people would have asked how any first job went. Most people would have had more questions to ask their teen son they hadn't seen for several weeks. Her not taping the show because she thought his bit had been cut is one thing - her complete disinterest in the entire first job is another.

Totally agree.

3 hours ago, Pallas said:

Rebecca probably had a few sore spots regarding 18-year-old Kevin and Sophie -- or really, Kevin, over the past year.  When he'd been trying to hide from himself by escaping from his family, with Sophie. And it would be like Rebecca not to acknowledge her pain to herself.

It's as if the only way that Kevin could make peace with his grief for what he lost was to become the boy who's already gone.  

Totally agree.  Rebecca wanted her kids to be there for her but probably never acknowledged that to herself or to them. She didn't put the work in to become a famous singer. She married the great love of her life and then mostly devoted her life to him and raising their family. Then her great love, their provider, died suddenly. She's hurt and angry that her son Kevin commits to Sophie and leaves home some months after the heartbreak of Jack's death.  She holds tight to her devoted son Randall, worries about Kate's possibly bad relationship, and goes to work as a clerk.  That is not the life she had in mind as a 20something. I get the impression she wanted the singing equivalent of Kevin's life as an actor. 

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

I thought the worst offender on that front was the freaking mobile from over Kevin's bed. Jack's earnest speechifying over a random object was way over the top, even for this show. 

I no longer pay any attention to Jack's speeches.  I totally tuned out but now I am going to have to rewatch because it must've been ridiculous!

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, nixgirl28 said:

I didn't care for her eulogy because it was about herself, not the deceased. Sophie leaving her fiance at the funeral reception to fend for himself all day was weird too. The ring thing was cringey. I too thought she'd pawned it at first.

I give anybody who has just lost a parent/child/partner/friend a pass for just about whatever they say or do (within reason), and she was speaking about the immense impact of her mother's absence. I probably did some uncharacteristic things in the fog of grief that I hope I wasn't judged too harshly for. That said, her leaving with Kevin while her fiance was probably high and dry with mostly strangers speaks to perhaps a less than strong connection to him.

53 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Totally agree.  Rebecca wanted her kids to be there for her but probably never acknowledged that to herself or to them. She didn't put the work in to become a famous singer. She married the great love of her life and then mostly devoted her life to him and raising their family. Then her great love, their provider, died suddenly. She's hurt and angry that her son Kevin commits to Sophie and leaves home some months after the heartbreak of Jack's death.  She holds tight to her devoted son Randall, worries about Kate's possibly bad relationship, and goes to work as a clerk.  That is not the life she had in mind as a 20something. I get the impression she wanted the singing equivalent of Kevin's life as an actor. 

I give pretty much the same pass for her missing his Days appearance as I do Sophie's eulogy. I'm not sure on the timeline but I think this is only months after Jack dies after their house fire. That's really not long enough to just buck up and get on with 'normal' life. On the day of his death they were talking about starting his construction business and her possible part in that. I don't know if she had a simmering desire to go for a singing career or if she had gotten real about it and looked forward to being involved in Jack's business. Either way, as others have mentioned, I think she was used to being adored and taken care of by her father and Jack, and then eventually Miguel. She didn't have a super strong ambition to go all in to singing, and that's ok. I didn't interpret any resentment in the Days thing, but disinterest in his Manny stardom is another matter. But look at her now, she has moved to LA for Kate but also taken out a subscription to a Hollywood periodical to keep up with what he's doing. He stayed with her before the move but after his stint in rehab. She's taken responsibility since being called out in the therapy session, and I credit her for that -- we can't jump in time machines and change the past, and not everybody owns up to their mistakes and takes corrective action. She has.

 

[Bringonthedrama]

7 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

 

I think she was used to being adored and taken care of by her father and Jack, and then eventually Miguel. She didn't have a super strong ambition to go all in to singing, and that's ok. I didn't interpret any resentment in the Days thing, but disinterest in his Manny stardom is another matter. 

She's taken responsibility since being called out in the therapy session, and I credit her for that -- we can't jump in time machines and change the past, and not everybody owns up to their mistakes and takes corrective action. She has.

 

I agree that she was used to be adored and taken care of by her father and Jack, and eventually Miguel. But as a parent it was up to her to have the maturity to understand that it wasn't her sons responsibility to take care of her - a not disabled 40 something adult. They were teenagers, becoming adults. At that age they were supposed to be moving away from childhood and starting independent lives. 

I saw Rebecca wanting to sing, but giving up because she would have to work hard to succeed as a professional outside of Pittsburgh. Basically, her attitude was people hear that I have a pretty voice, I should get a label immediately, why do I have to be ambitious? It makes me think of Kate being offended that she would have to have a college degree to teach music, that having some singing experience through a few gigs wasn't enough.  Rebecca's total disinterest in Kevin's career just makes her look like a bad mom.

It's good that Rebecca took responsibility in therapy, but her son was in his 30s at the time. The damage was already done.  Her owning up to her mistakes is good for her son's life when she becomes a grandmother again when he becomes a father in the not too distant future, but it's too late for young, developing Kevin to feel valued by his mother. 

[kili]

Quote

The ring story wasn't much of a story. Guy got proposal turned down, vowed to himself to live through war to ask again, was successful later. Typical TIU story of man not giving agency to a woman.

No quite. The woman specifically told him to ask her when he got back ("She said, wait till you get back."). The woman in this story had agency. She controlled when she would say yes and when the guy should ask her. The only real lack of agency was the guy being drafted into the war.

Quote

I give pretty much the same pass for her missing his Days appearance as I do Sophie's eulogy. I'm not sure on the timeline but I think this is only months after Jack dies after their house fire. That's really not long enough to just buck up and get on with 'normal' life.

 It was almost a year after Jack's death. Jack died the Superbowl weekend (first Sunday in February) and the events in Teen Era this episode were set on Rebecca's birthday (January). I know it takes longer for some people to get over grief, but I think after almost a year she can pull it together enough to remember that her son got his first professional acting gig.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, kili said:

No quite. The woman specifically told him to ask her when he got back ("She said, wait till you get back."). The woman in this story had agency. She controlled when she would say yes and when the guy should ask her. The only real lack of agency was the guy being drafted into the war.

 It was almost a year after Jack's death. Jack died the Superbowl weekend (first Sunday in February) and the events in Teen Era this episode were set on Rebecca's birthday (January). I know it takes longer for some people to get over grief, but I think after almost a year she can pull it together enough to remember that her son got his first professional acting gig.

I didn't realize that the majority of this episode was set in January throughout the years.  Honestly, because the show sets everything in perpetual 70 degrees I cannot differentiate the passage of time especially since they are using the same actors.  

[Quiet1]

3 hours ago, nixgirl28 said:

I didn't care for her eulogy because it was about herself, not the deceased. Sophie leaving her fiance at the funeral reception to fend for himself all day was weird too. The ring thing was cringey. I too thought she'd pawned it at first.

I got a different impression. It looked to me that when Kevin saw Sophie's fiance at the funeral, the fiance was whispering to Sophie that he had to leave. Didn't seem like he was at the house. Maybe another reason they break up, if they do.

[Quiet1]

I don't really have a strong opinion of Rebecca as a mother. She has her ups and downs, like most people. They all seem close to her and love her at this stage. In the episode she wasn't expecting Kevin until the next day and was rushing around, she did say that she wanted to hear all about his experience later that night and she was sorry she misunderstood about his appearance. The next day Kevin said he was sorry they ended up staying the night with Sophie's mom,(so they didn't get a chance to talk about it). 

[Pallas]

On 1/31/2020 at 10:16 AM, smartymarty said:

The ring story wasn't much of a story. Guy got proposal turned down, vowed to himself to live through war to ask again, was successful later. Typical TIU story of man not giving agency to a woman.

I think the story was that Claire's mother-to-be refused the ring, not the proposal; her father-to-be kept the ring with him throughout his combat in Korea. It inspired him to hold fast to the first thing he'd do when he returned. And the ring itself is officially war-worn. 

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Am I the only one that hated Sophie's eulogy for the mere fact that I've never seen anyone deliver a eulogy like that?  The speechifying stuff.

It reminded me of the funny, half affectionate, half teasing  bridesmaid speeches at weddings.  I wouldn't say I hated it exactly, but it would have made me uncomfortable if I had been there. 

[drafan]

Some random thoughts.....

Justin H is an OK -looking guy, but all the younger versions of Kevin are much better looking and also don't look like him AT ALL. It seems like they were casting for "good looking kid" with no thought that JH's face is very long and narrow. Every time they went back to the present, I felt like he is the one at the class reunion where everyone says, "Damn. What happened to him?" Also, someone commented on his teen hair....that's Jordan Catalano 90's hair in the blond version.

Yup. I also thought he was going to sleep with Sophie's mother.

Sophie is so bland that I forgot she existed.

Griffin Dunne is the best actor in this entire show...by miles and miles.

Which leads me to......Chrissy Metz ..... just terrible. Teenage Kate is a much better actress.

The depiction of Alzheimers ? The writers need an intervention and a workshop. Disturbing for people who have witnessed the real thing.

How long before Ken Olin inserts himself into this?

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by drafan

[Bulldog]

17 minutes ago, drafan said:

Justin H is an OK -looking guy

No offense, but I'd love to see your definition of a good looking guy.  But, I agree with your point about the younger versions not particularly looking like him.  I think the same thing about the younger versions of Randall.  By far, the best casting of the younger versions is Beth.  

 

12 hours ago, ChattyCathyLA said:

I’m a bit late to the party here, because I just watched it on demand, but I thought Kevin ending up in bed with Madison was a douch-y thing to do, harkening back to the old Kevin getting instant gratification when he’s down, always finding a willing participant, with no concern for whomever he hurts when it’s over. 

I kind of have to disagree here.  I think the key phrase is "willing participant."  Yes, Kevin was hurting, but Madison was hurting from her own situation too.  I think its fair to say that they perhaps used each other.  We haven't seen anything from Madison indicating she's looking for any long term relationship with Kevin.   I definitely don't think Madison is some blushing school girl who had no choice but to succumb to Kevin's charms and will be devastated if it doesn't turn into something more than a one night stand.  

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, drafan said:

Justin H is an OK -looking guy, but all the younger versions of Kevin are much better looking...Every time they went back to the present, I felt like he is the one at the class reunion where everyone says, "Damn. What happened to him?"

[memememe76]

Kevin was a 19 year old married and starting an acting career. Rebecca is a friggin stage mom in comparison to how my folks would have reacted. 

[chabelisaywow]

So I watched while multi tasking.   LOL, I thought Kevin was putting an autographed picture of Jamie Walters on Clare's grave. #teamSophie

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 hours ago, chabelisaywow said:

I thought Kevin was putting an autographed picture of Jamie Walters on Clare's grave.

How do you talk to an angel?

[Norma Desmond]

Are Kevin and Sophie TPTB's endgame? Judging by this episode, it sure seems like it (not that I'm complaining; I like them).

[Diana Berry]

On 1/28/2020 at 10:26 PM, memememe76 said:

This episode featured Young Adult Kevin at his least douchey. The episode also made me more of a Sophie and Kevin shipper than I remember. I like Madison. I wonder if Sophie and Kevin meet up and reunite much later in life, a la Rebecca and Miguel.

Yep I’m giving you credit for calling it.  Two more seasons...yep he’ll be back with Sophie.

4 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

Are Kevin and Sophie TPTB's endgame? Judging by this episode, it sure seems like it (not that I'm complaining; I like them).

After this last episode, I think it’s clear as day.  Kevin will finally complete his parent’s story.

[Dminches]

I may be stating the obvious but Kevin is by far the most interesting character on this show.  I really don't have any need to see one more second of adult Kate (post HS Kate is ok) and a touch of Randall and family is more than enough.  No more Jack at any age.  The Rebecca decline isn't going to be enjoyable to watch.

 

[BC4ME]

It's been a while since I had a young child but those triplets seem a bit old to me to just be getting out of their crib. I mean, Kevin's just now moving past an overhead mobile but he's old enough to discuss it being gone?? Kids that age seem old enough to being climbing out of cribs way before the age they appear to be. I understand they need actors old enough to talk and take acting instructions but it's stretching it for me to have that first, big kid bed storyline be with kids that old.

I think it was pretty mild the way they portrayed Rebecca's "bad" parenting of Kevin. They could only make her so bad because it is Rebecca after all.

I disliked both the actress playing Sophie's mother and the mother portrayed in the show. It was too tidy for this week's plot. 

I have no use for Kate. I barely watch her parts anymore.

I'm not done watching, but I wish the show wasn't so cheesy. I know they spend a lot of time telling us how much Rebecca and Jack loved each other -- a love for the ages and all but there's not enough (for me) to actually see why. I feel like there's some lack of substance there.

[OpalNightstream]

Team Sophie!

 

[Cementhead]

On 1/31/2020 at 9:56 AM, sasha206 said:

Does every fucking thing on this show have to have some melodramatic story attached to it?

Yes.

[bybrandy]

I personally prefer Madison to Sophie because I'd like for Kevin who is waiting for this big epic once in a lifetime love story that he can bore the kids and gradkids with forever to realize that there is something other than Jack Pearson speeches there is quiet love that grows and builds and becomes something bigger and stronger than the big moment love.

[NUguy514]

7 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I personally prefer Madison to Sophie because I'd like for Kevin who is waiting for this big epic once in a lifetime love story that he can bore the kids and gradkids with forever to realize that there is something other than Jack Pearson speeches there is quiet love that grows and builds and becomes something bigger and stronger than the big moment love.

That's exactly what I saw that he already has with Sophie.

[bybrandy]

4 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

That's exactly what I saw that he already has with Sophie.

Different strokes but epic first love finding its way back to each other after decades and 1000s of miles apart? That to me very much feels like the kind of story a Pearson would tell.   Yawn.

[ShadowFacts]

6 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Different strokes but epic first love finding its way back to each other after decades and 1000s of miles apart? That to me very much feels like the kind of story a Pearson would tell.   Yawn.

It's funny, I read in the media fairly frequently about people who were high school sweethearts, parted ways, married others, then got back in touch years later and get married.  I thought in this episode it was pretty well demonstrated that Kevin and Sophie were pretty compatible, really got each other, in the past and current timelines, humor was in sync, mutually supportive, all of that. From what we know so far, his infidelity in the past, and recently his drug/alcohol abuse, were the stumbling blocks. Getting back with Sophie feels more organic to me than a sudden love match with Madison, but I wouldn't mind it being none of the above. Devoting so much of an episode to Sophie's story makes me think we're supposed to think she's the one, but there's a good chance she's not. I just can't shake that Kevin wakes up next to Madison and can't get out of there fast enough, making a U-turn back to Pennsylvania.

[bybrandy]

I suspect that she is the one.  I suspect that this is the story this show is telling.  I just wish that it weren't because it feels so Pearson epic love story and Kevin is so hungry for Pearson epic love story, I wanted him to get something else.

[Ohiopirate02]

6 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

It's funny, I read in the media fairly frequently about people who were high school sweethearts, parted ways, married others, then got back in touch years later and get married.  I thought in this episode it was pretty well demonstrated that Kevin and Sophie were pretty compatible, really got each other, in the past and current timelines, humor was in sync, mutually supportive, all of that. From what we know so far, his infidelity in the past, and recently his drug/alcohol abuse, were the stumbling blocks. Getting back with Sophie feels more organic to me than a sudden love match with Madison, but I wouldn't mind it being none of the above. Devoting so much of an episode to Sophie's story makes me think we're supposed to think she's the one, but there's a good chance she's not. I just can't shake that Kevin wakes up next to Madison and can't get out of there fast enough, making a U-turn back to Pennsylvania.

Second-chance romance, another trope from romance novels.  The plot works, but this show already went there.  Kevin and Sophie had their second chance, I don't want to see their third or fourth.  Especially since the fault has been on Kevin's side both times.  For me it throws off their dynamic.  No matter how compatible Kevin and Sophie are, Kevin will always have his indiscretions hanging over his head with Sophie.  Better for him to find someone else where he starts off the relationship with a clean slate.  Also, I hate the idea of Kevin having to "earn" Sophie or prove he is "worthy" of her.  Sophie is a person, not a prize for the best version of Kevin to win.  

[hookedontv]

On 1/31/2020 at 7:37 PM, Bulldog said:

I kind of have to disagree here.  I think the key phrase is "willing participant."  Yes, Kevin was hurting, but Madison was hurting from her own situation too.  I think its fair to say that they perhaps used each other.  We haven't seen anything from Madison indicating she's looking for any long term relationship with Kevin.   I definitely don't think Madison is some blushing school girl who had no choice but to succumb to Kevin's charms and will be devastated if it doesn't turn into something more than a one night stand.  

^^This. So Much. Not every woman who has sex wants a relationship with that person. It can be recreational. It can be heat of the moment. It can be just needing to feel close to someone else - for that moment. 

I guess we'll see how this plays out between Kevin & Madison. We know that if Kate finds out, she's going to be all up in their business-ugh. 

[ShadowFacts]

I don't advocate for Sophie, I just think they've given her a big spotlight for a reason -- either she's in play, or they want us to think so. I really don't see Kevin as a terribly good bet with anyone right now. He was in a good spot with Zoe until it became evident she did not want kids. Other than that, he hasn't done that well in relationships.  Most recently he was ready to go all in with coffee shop woman because he thought the universe wanted him to be with her. Okay. I see him as thrashing about, approaching 40, trying to replicate something his parents had that he maybe isn't equipped for.

[smartymarty]

3 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I suspect that she is the one.  I suspect that this is the story this show is telling.  I just wish that it weren't because it feels so Pearson epic love story and Kevin is so hungry for Pearson epic love story, I wanted him to get something else.

I agree. Also, it bothers me that part of the "epic story" will be Sophie leaving her fiance. That means someone else getting hurt, while also suggesting that Sophie got engaged to someone that she really didn't want to spend her life with, or he was second choice. That makes me dislike Sophie a bit. I realize that IRL, this happens too. But this is fiction so I get to hate on someone who makes a mistake that hurts somebody else needlessly. Sophie, know yourself better.

[doodlebug]

On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 8:54 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

 

Yes plenty of people have graveside services who were cremated and then interred.  What I think the other poster meant to ask was why Jack had a graveside services if Kate has his ashes.  Or at least she did back in season one.  Jack has no physical grave, why have the unnecessary ceremony?  

There are probably lots of variants on the theme.  One of my nephews died at age 5.  He was cremated and his ashes divided into two urns.  One is buried in the cemetery with a headstone just like every other grave.  The other urn was kept by his mother and sits on a shelf in her bedroom.  I presume others have done the same and perhaps some of Jack's ashes were buried.

[Ohiopirate02]

46 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

There are probably lots of variants on the theme.  One of my nephews died at age 5.  He was cremated and his ashes divided into two urns.  One is buried in the cemetery with a headstone just like every other grave.  The other urn was kept by his mother and sits on a shelf in her bedroom.  I presume others have done the same and perhaps some of Jack's ashes were buried.

I honestly find the outdoor ceremony unnecessary because it supposedly happened in Pittsburgh in February 1998.  There is no snow on the ground, none of the actors are in winter coats, etc.  The show has a budget, and we have seen where they have done historical research, but they continue to fail on the weather front.  If Google won't tell you what the weather was in Pittsburgh on a specific date in the 1970s or 80s, then they could pick up a phone and call the reference desk at their local library.  Someone there could get this information for them.  It's not that difficult.  Why do an outdoor scene, when you could do an indoor one and pretend it's Pittsburgh?  The writer's tendency to write what they want, weather be damned is starting to annoy.  

On a side note, I have done graveside services in January in Ohio near Pittsburgh before.  We all were bundled up with winter coats, hats, gloves, scarves, and even changed our shoes in the car.  They do happen, it just looks a lot different than what the show decides to portray.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Kevin comforts Sophie:

Kevin wishes he had one more chance with Sophie:

 

[BlancheDevoreaux]

On 2/5/2020 at 11:20 PM, NUguy514 said:

That's exactly what I saw that he already has with Sophie.

I agree. It started as just two kids in elementary school and developed into something more over decades. I also love that he always felt at home and encouraged when he was with her and her family, especially considering his father clearly favored his sister and his mother favored his brother.