S03.E04: Hands!

[Pallas]

Joel visits Vegas. Rose and Abe struggle as they adjust to their new life. Susie scores a big win

[CinAZ]

Uhggggg!! They got married again??  I guess they had to hit every Vegas activity....

So Joel thinks he is seeing Mai? They danced once and ate lunch together. 
I am not that interested in the whole Sophie Broadway thing. 

It looks like they will eventually get Mrs Maisel and Shy together. Probably not end game, but I’m sure it will make it to the tabloids.

[Jessica Yes]

"Moishe elbowed me with his elbow! His big bony elbow!" The phone call with Abe and Rose talking to Miriam is the first real laugh out loud moment I've had this season.

[shapeshifter]

I keep thinking Susie is going to get over her insecurities and become a comic herself —possibly outshining Midge. But since all the characters speak with Gilmore Girl patter, likely nothing like that will transpire. Or will it? Were there a few references to Susie being funny by other characters? Or was that all in my head?

--

5 hours ago, CinAZ said:

So Joel thinks he is seeing Mai? They danced once and ate lunch together. 

I thought they had chemistry. 

—

5 hours ago, CinAZ said:

It looks like they will eventually get Mrs Maisel and Shy together. Probably not end game, but I’m sure it will make it to the tabloids.

I thought the way he skirted the reporters questions about his non-existent love life and his exaggerated hand gestures while singing were supposed to indicate that Shy is gay. Maybe his flirtatious queries about Midge’s status were to see if she might serve as his beard. Or he could be bi. Or my TV gaydar could be off. 
—

Dammit, there were some cute lines I wanted to quote. I guess I’ll have to pause the episodes to write them down, although I’m finally accepting not being able to dissect each episode so thoroughly with the binge-release format. 
 

Edited December 8, 2019 by shapeshifter

[txhorns79]

Is there anyone on this show that isn't a wacky eccentric?  I mean, Shirley listens to the radio and television at full blast playing different things while she cooks in the morning?  I love the show, but sometimes it is just so overwhelming.    

[SeanC]

Minor anachronism:  there’s no way that Susie would know who Peter O’Toole was in 1959.  He was at that point a West End stage actor who wouldn’t make his film debut for another year.

[Razzberry]

Midge going on tour with Shy was a good idea.  I've enjoyed the last two episodes of them in Vegas, for the most part, but keeping her parents in every episode , not so much.

Gotta love a hatchback.

[Seelouis]

On 12/7/2019 at 9:44 PM, SeanC said:

Minor anachronism:  there’s no way that Susie would know who Peter O’Toole was in 1959.  He was at that point a West End stage actor who wouldn’t make his film debut for another year.

I’m pretty sure it’s at least 1960 now given the title of the 2nd episode and the “vote for Kennedy” episode last season. 

[TV Diva Queen]

anyone think Shy and his manager are on the DL?  That love duet they sang was a bit much.  

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, TV Diva Queen said:

anyone think Shy and his manager are on the DL?  That love duet they sang was a bit much.  

Yeah

[ShadowFacts]

On 12/7/2019 at 7:06 PM, shapeshifter said:

Dammit, there were some cute lines I wanted to quote. I guess I’ll have to pause the episodes to write them down, although I’m finally accepting not being able to dissect each episode so thoroughly with the binge-release format. 

The format of dropping all the shows at once annoys me.  For one thing, it's a killer of discussion in forums.  There's anticipation, the shows drop, then, crickets.  Half the fun of shows I like is seeing what other people think. 

[tennisgurl]

I definitely saw some spark between Joel and Mai, and even if they arent an official thing, it seems like Joel wants them to be. Give or take a Vegas marriage or two to his ex wife. 

I love how in this universe, everyone is just super extra about everything! No Mr. and Mrs. M, you need to be MORE quirky! Turn those radios on! Sleeping in the nude! Your already at a 10, I need you at like a 15. 

I kind of wonder if Shy and Reggie arent secretly a thing, I am picking up a bit of a vibe from Shy at least. Or maybe its just the kind of crooner style from that time period, not totally sure yet. 

Abe and Rose being stuck with their ex in laws is actually pretty hilarious. "He survives storming the beach at Normandy only to be killed by Abe Weissman delivering milk."

[ShadowFacts]

56 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I definitely saw some spark between Joel and Mai, and even if they arent an official thing, it seems like Joel wants them to be. Give or take a Vegas marriage or two to his ex wife. 

I love how in this universe, everyone is just super extra about everything! No Mr. and Mrs. M, you need to be MORE quirky! Turn those radios on! Sleeping in the nude! Your already at a 10, I need you at like a 15. 

I kind of wonder if Shy and Reggie arent secretly a thing, I am picking up a bit of a vibe from Shy at least. Or maybe its just the kind of crooner style from that time period, not totally sure yet. 

Abe and Rose being stuck with their ex in laws is actually pretty hilarious. "He survives storming the beach at Normandy only to be killed by Abe Weissman delivering milk."

I agree with all of this. I think Joel is into Mai, and it looked like his friend who was plastering (can't think of his name) saw it, too. If they got married she'd be Mai Maisel. Unless it's Mei, not sure.

Moishe is really too too extra, and Shirley. I thought Moishe was supposed to be mostly retired, what's the Type A crack of dawn thing, can he not slow down? Abe and Rose need to get busy with something more than whatever Abe is doing with his young friends, and Rose, take your grandkids to the park or something. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Wacky characters:  That's Amy Sherman Palladino for you.

Susie as a comedian:  That's been a theme all along, but at least Midge is actually improving in her performances now.

Shy and his friend gay:  they may be hinting at that.  

Life on the road:  entertainers on the road live a dangerously libertine life style:  drinking, gambling, sex, drugs.  I think the show soft pedals that in wacky Sherman Palladino style.  Real life is much more extreme, I think.

[smartymarty]

I found the Weissmans living with the Maisels just too sit-commie. The first season, as least, was more funny drama. Having everyone be eccentric is not only exhausting, but pushing my suspension of disbelief. And then there are the cliches: got drunk and married in Vegas, but don't remember (you have to drink quite a lot to black out); drag racing; mafia-owned casino complete with beating up someone to get a point across. Yawn.

I like the story of Susie figuring out how to be a manager, i.e., getting the play in the works, but could Jane Lynch play Sophie Lennon as less of a villain? I want to call Sophie "Cruella" instead. It's cringe-worthy. Too cartoonish.

The good? Midge's excitement at her name on the marquee. Midge and Joel getting along, joking about the children. Susie finding her place in casino gambling and figuring out how to get someone to produce Sophie's play. Midge's act doing well. The guy who fixed up Susie's apartment.

[Clanstarling]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:06 PM, shapeshifter said:

I thought they had chemistry. 

—

I thought the way he skirted the reporters questions about his non-existent love life and his exaggerated hand gestures while singing were supposed to indicate that Shy is gay. Maybe his flirtatious queries about Midge’s status were to see if she might serve as his beard. Or he could be bi. Or my TV gaydar could be off.

I thought Joel and Mei had more sexual chemistry during that dance than I ever saw with Midge. It was the one and only time I thought of him as sexy.

To me it seems pretty clear that Shy's gay. We haven't seen him with any woman in a sexually charged moment, and for a touring performer that's pretty rare.

On 12/9/2019 at 10:16 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

anyone think Shy and his manager are on the DL?  That love duet they sang was a bit much.  

Yep. That was the only moment time I thought there was sexual chemistry, though toned down. And I am not one to ship or jump to conclusions. (Doesn't make me right, though)

I groaned at the Las Vegas cliche of blackout drunk marriage, which bugs because their scenes after the show were sweet and funny. 

I am not enjoying the parents at all though. They're all just too much.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, smartymarty said:

I found the Weissmans living with the Maisels just too sit-commie. The first season, as least, was more funny drama. Having everyone be eccentric is not only exhausting, but pushing my suspension of disbelief. And then there are the cliches: got drunk and married in Vegas, but don't remember (you have to drink quite a lot to black out); drag racing; mafia-owned casino complete with beating up someone to get a point across. Yawn.

It is OTT but not that much. Have you met my Jewish-in-name-only family? My sister got married at 19 in our living room so she could run off with her Vietnam draft-evading boyfriend to live with her Mormon in-laws. But, hey, at least she learned to cook. I had to go to a hippie commune for that. To quote an old song, "don't start me talkin'."
And there are some good lines (Abe's "He survives storming the beach at Normandy only to be killed by Abe Weissman delivering milk").

But, yeah, "sit-commie" does describe the home life.

9 hours ago, smartymarty said:

The good? Midge's excitement at her name on the marquee. Midge and Joel getting along, joking about the children. Susie finding her place in casino gambling and figuring out how to get someone to produce Sophie's play. Midge's act doing well. The guy who fixed up Susie's apartment.

Yes. But, sadly, "the guy who fixed up Susie's apartment," Jackie/Brian Tarantina, passed away recently. I remember thinking it was odd that he was shown sitting a lot, so maybe there was something going on. 😞

[snarktini]

First, no way Susie can afford to hop a flight back to NY. Flying was expensive back then!

Second, Abe and Rose need to be spending their days apartment hunting. Why be there more than absolutely necessary? For "comedy", that's why. I come from a quiet/uptight household so there's no way I'd last a week in that house. Poor Zelda.

[HouseofBeck]

On 12/11/2019 at 8:50 PM, shapeshifter said:

But, sadly, "the guy who fixed up Susie's apartment," Jackie/Brian Tarantina, passed away recently. I remember thinking it was odd that he was shown sitting a lot, so maybe there was something going on. 😞

Oh, that’s a shame. I loved the unexpected yet matter-of-fact way he made improvements. And ironed! I love those ensemble character developments.

I think at least a week passed between this and last episode, so I am assuming that Joel and Mei kept seeing each other in some capacity after that dinner in the restaurant. And I also thought, Damn, when did he get so appealing? I like them together (and I suspect she runs her whole damn family, the building, the block, the town), yet I also like him and Midge back together. They click so well...when he doesn’t remember that she is pursuing her dream above all else. 

I adore Jane Lynch in this role and I want to see a mad clash between her and Gavin Hawk.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On 12/11/2019 at 9:50 PM, shapeshifter said:

But, sadly, "the guy who fixed up Susie's apartment," Jackie/Brian Tarantina, passed away recently. I remember thinking it was odd that he was shown sitting a lot, so maybe there was something going on

Watching this episode today (we're fitting in the season bit by bit as Mr. Snappy has odd work hours) and I commented that he kind of reminded me of Danny Aiello and could take his place with all those character roles and then remembered that he had passed away recently as well. I really like/d his character though (in this episode, did anyone else infer just a tiny bit that the character might be gay?)

I think there is NO doubt that Shy is closeted, though whether he and Reggie are a couple, I guess, will be revealed later this season (or not, since they've reupped for S4). 

Cliches and OTT moments notwithstanding, this was absolutely my favorite episode of the season thus far and had me laughing out loud in several scenes. 

MORE ZELDA PLEASE.

[DianeDobbler]

On 12/11/2019 at 11:50 AM, smartymarty said:

I like the story of Susie figuring out how to be a manager, i.e., getting the play in the works, but could Jane Lynch play Sophie Lennon as less of a villain? I want to call Sophie "Cruella" instead. It's cringe-worthy. Too cartoonish.

The performance is terrible and uninteresting. I've never disliked Jane Lynch in anything until this role. It's an eye opener. I thought she could figure out how to play anything.

I agree Joel and Mei have chemistry. One reviewer, and I agree, said the actor appears more comfortable with the Mei actress than with Brosnahan. This doesn't have to mean personally, but who is a better fit. He annoys the shit out of me the rest of the time even though I know the actor is trying, but with Mei I'm ok.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

. I've never disliked Jane Lynch in anything until this role. It's an eye opener. I thought she could figure out how to play anything.

I share your opinion of Jane Lynch's past performances. I can only guess they might have wanted Sophie to be more unlikable than Midge so Midge was not the least likable character in the room.

—-

About the episode title, “Hands!” and the way it was used on the subway/train: Was that a mid-20th-century, precursor to #MeToo figure-of-speech? 
I mean: Was (or is?) “Hands!” commonly exclaimed on NYC public transit when someone’s hand(s) touch someone else inappropriately? And, if so, is/was it used the same whether or not the touching seems inadvertent? 

Edited December 18, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I share your opinion of Jane Lynch's past performances. I can only guess they might have wanted Sophie to be more unlikable than Midge so Midge was not the least likable character in the room.

—-

About the episode title, “Hands!” and the way it was used on the subway/train: Was that a mid-20th-century, precursor to #MeToo figure-of-speech? 
I mean: Was (or is?) “Hands!” commonly exclaimed on NYC public transit when someone’s hand(s) touch someone else inappropriately? And, if so, is/was it used the same whether or not the touching seems inadvertent? 

I might have my episodes mixed up, but I remember "Hands!" as being something yelled at the craps table.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Miriam going on tour was a great idea for the show. I have enjoyed seeing her out on the road in new locations with new people.

The in laws living together is a bit much. I get that the Maisels were kind enough to give them a place to live for the time being, but that doesn't mean barging in at 5am to demand their sheets. Calm down there, people. Meanwhile, if Abe and Rose think the noise is too much (and it would be for me too), just leave the house during the day. Use that time to look for another place to live or just go to a diner to have a cup of coffee and read the paper somewhere that isn't the Maisel house.

I wish we could keep Joel and Miriam as friendly exes but as soon as I saw them drunkenly laughing, I knew that they were going to have sex. But ugh, they had to get married? Come on.

One thing I don't like is Miriam's dependence on Susie. I get that Susie is her manager and they're friends, but I was already rolling my eyes when Miriam told her to take care of the money (instead of depositing it into her bank account) because she would just spend it, but I could not believe that she said Susie was supposed to hold her together aka somehow prevent her from marrying Joel. That's called a 24/7 babysitter, Midge. You're an adult so take some responsibility for your actions. None of that drunken night was Susie's fault.

[DianeDobbler]

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I share your opinion of Jane Lynch's past performances. I can only guess they might have wanted Sophie to be more unlikable than Midge so Midge was not the least likable character in the room.

It's not even the unlikeble part. I don't believe her, and she's boring. It's a bad performance by a good actor, so it's technically fine, but there's no core to it. Even farcical performances have a core. I thought she had a nice moment trying to "act" the way she opened the door and exited, then came back in, but the actual character as a person so far is absent. She's very skilled but there's no there there IMO. I can see what she's supposed to be.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

She's very skilled but there's no there there IMO. I can see what she's supposed to be.

True. Next theory: They want to be sure Jane Lynch doesn't outshine Rachel Brosnahan or Alex Borstein. 

[DianeDobbler]

On 12/18/2019 at 7:59 PM, shapeshifter said:

True. Next theory: They want to be sure Jane Lynch doesn't outshine Rachel Brosnahan or Alex Borstein. 

There's really no danger at all. Rachel Brosnahan is the lead and Alex Borstein as Susie is someone that can't be outshined. I just think Lynch didn't find the playable part of the character, so the character is flat. She needs to "get" her. It's unusual to see an actor as experienced as Lynch just not pull it off, although you certainly can't tell by the Emmys.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

The in-law antics remind me of the "townies" on the Gilmore Girls ... just something to be endured until the good stuff with the main characters. I do love that house, however. Does anyone with good internet sleuthing skills know where it is? Is it actually in Queens? 

[Scarlett45]

On 12/7/2019 at 7:06 PM, shapeshifter said:

 

I keep thinking Susie is going to get over her insecurities and become a comic herself —possibly outshining Midge. But since all the characters speak with Gilmore Girl patter, likely nothing like that will transpire. Or will it? Were there a few references to Susie being funny by other characters? Or was that all in my head?

--

On 12/7/2019 at 2:04 PM, CinAZ said:

So Joel thinks he is seeing Mai? They danced once and ate lunch together. 

I thought they had chemistry. 

—

On 12/7/2019 at 2:04 PM, CinAZ said:

It looks like they will eventually get Mrs Maisel and Shy together. Probably not end game, but I’m sure it will make it to the tabloids.

I thought the way he skirted the reporters questions about his non-existent love life and his exaggerated hand gestures while singing were supposed to indicate that Shy is gay. Maybe his flirtatious queries about Midge’s status were to see if she might serve as his beard. Or he could be bi. Or my TV gaydar could be off. 

 

I thought they were indicating Shy was gay as well. From episode one of this season when his manager was talking about being there for each other’s last breaths etc, and just things he’s said. Or he could be bi but they aren’t going to have a Jewish white woman serve as his beard. Sammy David Jr went through hell but he actually loved and wanted his wife. 

[smartymarty]

On 12/23/2019 at 1:20 PM, MoreCoffeePlease said:

Does anyone with good internet sleuthing skills know where it is? Is it actually in Queens? 

Friend of mine who lives in Brooklyn walked by it in Forest Hills Gardens, Queens.

 

[Lola82]

On 12/26/2019 at 8:47 AM, smartymarty said:

Friend of mine who lives in Brooklyn walked by it in Forest Hills Gardens, Queens.

 

Yep, it’s in Forest Hills Gardens and the whole area is those kinds of houses. I walk by there often just to admire them.

[Gummo]

The Weissmans-Maisels story is the first real misstep of this series. It's way over the top, unbelievable and worst, violates character - the Weissmans would never have moved in with the Maisels; why would they? Don't they have any other friends or relatives? It makes the universe of the show feel less closed and more suffocating. Violating character for cheap laughs is beneath this show.

Joel, however, reverted to character perfectly -- freaking out about marrying Midge, of course his first instinct is to blame her. And I was actually liking him up to that point.

Never seen Susie scared before. Of course, she had plenty to be scared of. Not sure where her story is going -- turns out Sophie isn't just an egomaniac control freak, she's crazy, too. Quite a handful.

Still loving the show, warts and all. Taking it slow, it's a lot to absorb.

 

 

[Empress Josephine]

Shirley blasting the television and radio at the same time is the exact same thing my parents do. Then when someone calls they shout into the phone. Neither seems to think to think that turning the volume down would help them hear conversations better haha. So the thing with Shirley really cracked me up.

 

I can't believe Abe is still entertaining this revolutionary magazine. But I can't help but laugh at these silly scenes. There plan for everything is to 'camp outside his door' and the landlord not fixing the toilet is fascist lmao. 

 

[ombre]

The Weissmans living with the Maisels is utterly overdone and unbelievable ... AND YET... It's also completely believable* as a bizarre mid-life crisis on the Weissmans' part (and a look-who's-respectable-now charity for the Maisels).  It feels to me like a pebble dropped and turned into a ripple and turned into a wave and turned into a tsumani - once Miriam started questioning What Is Done, none of the rest of them can figure out how not to question every little bit of propriety.  But Miriam had an itch to be Doing something - comedy - so she's landing on her feet.  The others?  It's the difference between running to something and running from something.  It feels like there's a lesson building here - some people should make revolutions... some people should keep their tenure and trust funds.  Not sure that message is particularly au courant but... well, that, too, is ASP in a nutshell.

I got a serious gay vibe off Shy when he was first introduced (do I remember a preference for the ladies' room because it was cleaner?).  This season somewhat less.  He strikes me as doing an excellent job playing the guarded yet suave and in control role of a public black celebrity in the 60s.  It a really interesting, nuanced performance in the middle of a show that is so devastatingly awful about whitewashing the racism of the 50s and 60s** and, at least thus far, about giving him... oh... *any* backstory of any kind?  

* Well... on the ASP spectrum of believability.  Ya maybe definitely gotta squint a bit to make it work otherwise

**  Others may lose their willing suspension of disbelief for the seasons at the Maisel/Weissman household; I lost mine with the first scene - those integrated USO performances.  I was surprised to find that I still *had* any suspended disbelief to lose - what black man in the 60s would use a women's room?  For heaven's sake - Emmett Till's murder was 1955, not 1855!

 

[chessiegal]

2 hours ago, ombre said:

those integrated USO performances. 

Harry Truman integrated the military in 1948.

Quote

1948,

On July 26, 1948, President Harry S. Truman signed this executive order establishing the President's Committee on Equality of Treatment and Opportunity in the Armed Services, committing the government to integrating the segregated military.

 

[Old Man Neil]

2 hours ago, ombre said:

This season somewhat less.  He strikes me as doing an excellent job playing the guarded yet suave and in control role of a public black celebrity in the 60s. 

I agree. 

[ombre]

51 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Harry Truman integrated the military in 1948.

 

The military, yes, but I spent quite some time* looking for integrated uso *performances* and came up with nothing indicating that there were mixed groups onstage. 

 

* why, brain? Whyyyyyy? 

[athousandclowns]

I’m just starting to watch and am on this episode.  When I heard and saw Shy sing the first song it sounded and looked just like Johnny Mathis.  I’ve loved him since his early days and have seen him perform three or four times.  Trust me when I was a teen I did not know anyone was gay and never heard anything for years about him being gay. He’s from the Bay Area so he was/is well loved here.  

 I’ve heard black singers talk about the early days of performing in Vegas where they were the stars but couldn’t stay in the hotel where they were headlining.  So the kitchen scene where everyone was cooking was not ringing true to me.  I can’t pinpoint when that changed.  Loving the show and clothes and the humor.  It looked like Alan Alda playing craps in cowboy hat. 
 

[luvthepros]

On 12/14/2019 at 3:39 PM, HouseofBeck said:

I think at least a week passed between this and last episode, so I am assuming that Joel and Mei kept seeing each other in some capacity after that dinner in the restaurant. And I also thought, Damn, when did he get so appealing?

I have thought Joel (the actor) is sexy as hell from the first time I saw him in this show. I had not seen him before. I like the actor. I like his look, I like the way he carries himself. I can distance the actor from the character whom everyone on this forum seems to dislike.

[Raja]

On 1/8/2020 at 2:48 PM, ombre said:

The military, yes, but I spent quite some time* looking for integrated uso *performances* and came up with nothing indicating that there were mixed groups onstage. 

 

* why, brain? Whyyyyyy? 

You hit my pet complaint about Captain America The First Avenger and its refusal to deal with American segregation. But that movie was set at least 15 years before. Given a Shy Baldwin at the level of a Nat King Cole who had a NBC television show or a Sammy Davis Jr. who was a soldier assigned to entertainment of others during WWII., unless Shy was slow dancing with a white woman there is probably not a problem on base, in the North or South.

We are looking at a peacetime USO show at a base near New York City in a part of American society that had already integrated. What the peacetime military did beside draft Elvis and being sent to enforce Brown vs the Board of Education was frankly  not much interest  for a historian. Once draftees started getting sent to Vietnam  who would be in a USO show would suddenly draw interest again.

[Clanstarling]

I did find evidence that there was work to integrate the two USOs, but found nothing on when and if it happened.  But as this isn't a serious examination of American history, I'm letting it slide.

[Ilovepie]

On 1/8/2020 at 11:05 AM, ombre said:

It a really interesting, nuanced performance in the middle of a show that is so devastatingly awful about whitewashing the racism of the 50s and 60s

Thank you - I feel like I'm losing my mind watching this with Shy and his crew just roaming the hotel. I just don't know how this show can act like this was normal during that era because it absolutely was not. Just read anything about how Sammy Davis Jr. was treated. Ditto the situation with Joel and Mai. I don't see his parents accepting her.  Archie seemed cool when they were dancing, but I doubt Imogene would accept her into their social circle. It's totally unbelievable.

Why is this show just ignoring the segregation and overt racism that was out there during this era? I wish the show would address it - it would be interesting to see Midge having to navigate touring with them and seeing how they are treated.

[janie jones]

 

On 12/9/2019 at 7:16 AM, TV Diva Queen said:

anyone think Shy and his manager are on the DL?  That love duet they sang was a bit much.  

The big (I don't want to say "red") flag to me was the way the manager responded to all the questions about Shy's love life during the press conference.

On 12/9/2019 at 9:33 AM, ShadowFacts said:

The format of dropping all the shows at once annoys me.  For one thing, it's a killer of discussion in forums.  There's anticipation, the shows drop, then, crickets.  Half the fun of shows I like is seeing what other people think. 

Yeah.  I don't binge most shows, so by the time I get around to watching them, there isn't a lot of discussion anymore, so I don't bother. 

On 12/11/2019 at 8:50 AM, smartymarty said:

The good? Midge's excitement at her name on the marquee.

I liked that, too, but I wasn't sure what the photographer was doing standing around in the casino.

On 12/18/2019 at 5:52 AM, Clanstarling said:

I might have my episodes mixed up, but I remember "Hands!" as being something yelled at the craps table.

It was.

On 12/28/2019 at 6:52 AM, Gummo said:

Never seen Susie scared before. Of course, she had plenty to be scared of. Not sure where her story is going -- turns out Sophie isn't just an egomaniac control freak, she's crazy, too. Quite a handful.

She seemed pretty scared to me when she got kidnapped by those goons last season (or was it the season before?).  I thought that contributed to her being so scared of the casino mobster.

[aradia22]

I'm torn. On the one hand, Midge's comedy of late is the kind of hacky, corny stuff I'd expect from the time period. On the other hand, it isn't very funny to watch and I thought part of the initial selling point was that she was supposed to be a new kind of comic. Also, it's not that I want her to get heckled, but the crowds are very flat this season. They've always been a little flat but there's something particularly self-congratulatory about it now. Or maybe it's that in season 1, you would sometimes get Midge at a house party. It feels like a waste to call in a bunch (frankly way too many) extras to all laugh as one. It feels phony. No crowd laughs and cheers that consistently for EVERY joke. It sounds canned. 

Suddenly there's drag racing? What is this, Grease? That whole scene felt completely pointless. What information was communicated that we didn't already know? I feel like this show is getting very cocky about all the awards and the amount of money Amazon lets them spend and they're getting away from thinking about what actually serves the story. 

I loved Shirley's dress when she was cooking in the kitchen. I feel like she rarely gets cute costumes. 

Abe, Zelda, and Rose sitting together sadly in the bedroom was the first thing I laughed at this episode.

The jukebox with the vinyl loading in was very cool.

My second laugh of the episode was when Moishe was extolling the benefits of waking up at 4:30. So about a laugh every 10 minutes. Also, I'm thinking that having the former in-laws move in together was an excuse to move to a bigger set with fancy furniture and to keep Joel's parents in the story. 

OK, "Holy shit, you put in a bidet!" got another laugh out of me. 

It was great to see Suzy being a great manager. Her giving Miriam pep talks is only so interesting. She pulled a trick to get the producers to meet her but once they were there she was sharp and prepared and she rolled with the punches. I was proud of her. 

CARY ELWES! I'm liking this Sophie storyline. I mean, the plot itself isn't that interesting. But all the different actors are bringing such fresh energy to it. 

I still don't need Joel in this show but it was nice to see him be supportive after his behavior in seasons 1-2. 

Watching Midge and Joel obsess over Kim Novak I feel like I finally got what they saw in each other. I still think she's too good for him but I finally saw the sparkle and chemistry that might explain why they cast that actor for Joel.

I have no idea where they were going with the quickie wedding and the morning after. Does the show want us to root for them getting back together or not? Mei is a bad ass but I don't need her to be with Joel for her to be on the show. Frankly, I'd prefer if she wasn't with Joel.

When Angie came back I thought he'd have the check. That feels like a loose end.

[aradia22]

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I keep thinking Susie is going to get over her insecurities and become a comic herself —possibly outshining Midge. But since all the characters speak with Gilmore Girl patter, likely nothing like that will transpire. Or will it? Were there a few references to Susie being funny by other characters? Or was that all in my head?

It would be way too shark-jumpy but on another show, I can see this all being a lead in to Susie having to jump in for Sophie and realizing she's the real actress. But that would be way too dumb. This isn't Glee. 

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No Mr. and Mrs. M, you need to be MORE quirky! Turn those radios on! Sleeping in the nude! Your already at a 10, I need you at like a 15. 

I can legitimately see this as direction someone would get on the set for this show. 

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I like the story of Susie figuring out how to be a manager, i.e., getting the play in the works, but could Jane Lynch play Sophie Lennon as less of a villain? I want to call Sophie "Cruella" instead. It's cringe-worthy. Too cartoonish.

Yeah, it's weird to me that this show keeps getting acting awards. 

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Joel, however, reverted to character perfectly -- freaking out about marrying Midge, of course his first instinct is to blame her. And I was actually liking him up to that point.

Yeah... I don't think they're going to get in a big fight. I could have seen them writing a story where Midge actually wasn't that bothered about being married and was hurt to find out about Mei. But as of now it seems like they're both happy to be divorced. Still, it was a reminder of why they didn't work great as a couple. 

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It feels like there's a lesson building here - some people should make revolutions... some people should keep their tenure and trust funds.  Not sure that message is particularly au courant but... well, that, too, is ASP in a nutshell.

LOL

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It a really interesting, nuanced performance in the middle of a show that is so devastatingly awful about whitewashing the racism of the 50s and 60s** and, at least thus far, about giving him... oh... *any* backstory of any kind?  

THANK YOU. Glad it's not just me. 

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The big (I don't want to say "red") flag to me was the way the manager responded to all the questions about Shy's love life during the press conference.

That was the thing that jumped out to me. I agree with someone upthread who posited that even if Shy is gay, it doesn't mean that he's in a relationship with Reggie. Reggie might just be helping him protect his secret. We'll see where the show decides to go with it. I had totally forgotten about Shy using the women's restroom when we first meet him. 

[Emily Thrace]

On 1/20/2020 at 12:58 PM, Ilovepie said:

Thank you - I feel like I'm losing my mind watching this with Shy and his crew just roaming the hotel. I just don't know how this show can act like this was normal during that era because it absolutely was not. Just read anything about how Sammy Davis Jr. was treated. Ditto the situation with Joel and Mai. I don't see his parents accepting her.  Archie seemed cool when they were dancing, but I doubt Imogene would accept her into their social circle. It's totally unbelievable.

Why is this show just ignoring the segregation and overt racism that was out there during this era? I wish the show would address it - it would be interesting to see Midge having to navigate touring with them and seeing how they are treated.

Vegas was largely integrated by 1960 mostly due to the efforts of Sammy Davis, Sinatra and the rest of the Rat Pack. It was actually a plot point on DS9.

[Dobian]

Nice nod to the drag race at the end of American Graffiti.  I could almost see Paul Le Mat and Harrison Ford behind the wheel. 

[Adeejay]

On 12/11/2019 at 9:50 PM, shapeshifter said:

Yes. But, sadly, "the guy who fixed up Susie's apartment," Jackie/Brian Tarantina, passed away recently. I remember thinking it was odd that he was shown sitting a lot, so maybe there was something going on. 😞

Unfortunately, Brian Tarantina, who I enjoyed watching since he played "Lucky", Joe Lando's sidekick on "One Life To Live" back in the early '90s, died of a drug overdose.  His sister was unable to reach him,  so she went to his apartment. It appeared that he had been dead for a couple of days.  So sad!  

[chediavolo]

On 12/11/2019 at 9:50 PM, shapeshifter said:

It is OTT but not that much. Have you met my Jewish-in-name-only family? My sister got married at 19 in our living room so she could run off with her Vietnam draft-evading boyfriend to live with her Mormon in-laws. But, hey, at least she learned to cook. I had to go to a hippie commune for that. To quote an old song, "don't start me talkin'."
And there are some good lines (Abe's "He survives storming the beach at Normandy only to be killed by Abe Weissman delivering milk").

But, yeah, "sit-commie" does describe the home life.

Yes. But, sadly, "the guy who fixed up Susie's apartment," Jackie/Brian Tarantina, passed away recently. I remember thinking it was odd that he was shown sitting a lot, so maybe there was something going on. 😞

He died of a drug overdose. He wasn’t ill. 

On 1/20/2020 at 1:58 PM, Ilovepie said:

Thank you - I feel like I'm losing my mind watching this with Shy and his crew just roaming the hotel. I just don't know how this show can act like this was normal during that era because it absolutely was not. Just read anything about how Sammy Davis Jr. was treated. Ditto the situation with Joel and Mai. I don't see his parents accepting her.  Archie seemed cool when they were dancing, but I doubt Imogene would accept her into their social circle. It's totally unbelievable.

Why is this show just ignoring the segregation and overt racism that was out there during this era? I wish the show would address it - it would be interesting to see Midge having to navigate touring with them and seeing how they are treated.

Yep. I was thinking the same thing. No way was there no segregation,  at this time in our history. Everyone would not be so excepting of everyone of every race just mingling together that’s not the way it was. Well this  show is pure fantasy. 

[Clanstarling]

16 hours ago, chediavolo said:

He died of a drug overdose. He wasn’t ill.

Drug overdoses don't preclude being ill. Illness or pain can be a contributing factor to a person developing a drug problem.  I'm not sure there was much more written about Tarantina's condition other than he died of an overdose, so unless we have further knowledge, we can't be sure.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Clanstarling