S05.E00: Crisis On Infinite Earths Part Five

[Trini]

Good job with making that opening feel just like a regular Supergirl episode.

Weather Witch? There are so many better Flash villains to choose from; but I guess she was available.

Nice Wolfman cameo!

So J'onn is this episode's deus ex machina.  😐 But he got some stuff to do, so, yay? Was that actually a new suit for him?

I'm confused -- I thought Part 4 showed us that everything was Mar Novu's fault? And they were never especially clear what Nash/Pariah did? Also, this Nash Wells shouldn't even exist anymore - unless they're saying that his Earth merged with these others, and now this is the only Wells that exists now...? That would be dumb.  UGH I'm so OVER any Wells!

The Paragon of Love not mentioning Iris at all? Not realistic. Disappointed, but not surprised. STAR Labs with no Cisco? Also not realistic.

So, I guess Sara is the new 'Oliver' it seems? Meh; but it makes sense.

A new universe in exchange for never having to see Oliver again -- I'll take it! But they were going way overboard with the eulogizing throughout this episode. The "for Oliver" battle cry was cringey. And somewhere out there Bruce Wayne's eye is twitching at "our first hero". But Oliver not being in this episode at all - I knew Stephen was done with the Arrow-verse, but WOW.

Really thought they'd edit Felicity/Emily into one of these crossover episodes somehow.

Wait -- two sons for Clark and Lois?? Intrigued I am.

Well Barry's starting the Justice League! See you at the next crisis, next year, everyone!

[Trini]

3 hours ago, mtlchick said:

But man, in terms of the overall event, it was certainly underwhelming.  And still leaves things sort of confusing.  So what do we have now, a slimmed down multiverse with all the heroes on the same Earth?  

I've been saying, there's only so much they were going to change.
 

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

If they continue to bring in new Wells then the crossover was even more useless. Hopefully access between worlds is harder now.

I need this for my sanity! 😩  No more Wellses, please!
 

2 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

I’m glad Sara was in charge throughout the episode. I was afraid they’d try to have Barry take charge in Oliver’s absence, but with Oliver gone Sara is the next best option for leader. I hope she’s leading in crossovers from now on (assuming the Legends are involved).

They just refused to let Barry be great. Typical.
 

1 hour ago, Twilight Man said:

I hate to ruin a tearjerker moment, but BL saying that he never met Oliver should not have been true.  I'm sure that he must have worked with GA at least at some point during this

"We were here all along" merged Earth.

Much like Old Man Steve Rogers, I hate to ruin a tearjerker moment, but that technically makes no sense.

Nah, I fully believe everyone ignores Freeland, and/or Jefferson has just straight up told them to stay out of his city. Going forward from now, though, I think he's open to other heroes helping out.

I want more crossovers (like with single characters), but will they actually do them even with a merged universe? We'll see...

 

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, Twilight Man said:

Speaking of the Paragons, only they were unaffected by the worlds merging, so ...................

I hate to ruin a tearjerker moment, but BL saying that he never met Oliver should not have been true.  I'm sure that he must have worked with GA at least at some point during this

"We were here all along" merged Earth.

Much like Old Man Steve Rogers, I hate to ruin a tearjerker moment, but that technically makes no sense.

I think it makes perfect sense. Not every superhero knows each other. He's been active long before Oliver and stayed in his lane majority of his own life. Bruce never knew Green Arrow, same with Superman (I doubt that changed in this new reality) until last year.

4 minutes ago, Trini said:

 

I want more crossovers (like with single characters), but will they actually do them even with a merged universe? We'll see...

 

I think we will get more Batwoman/Supergirl crossovers and Supergirl/Superman crossovers. Probably a Superman/Flash crossover as well. 

[futurechemist]

I appreciated that the plot basically finished in episode 4 to allow episode 5 to set the new status quo. Though giant Beebo and giant Anti Monitor didn't fit that tone.

Do Mia and William still exist in the present? Didn't see them mourning their dad in part 5.  And what happened to the Monitor and Lyla?

And if the universe was already gone in part 4, how could the team time travel to another planet?

I was underwhelmed. Most of the episodes felt like the characters were bouncing around a pinball table without explaining much. Except for episode 4. Which had the fewest characters but I had the least clue what was going on.

[thuganomics85]

Well, they've certainly set some interesting stuff up with the shows going forward!

So, basically, all of the Earths with "our" heroes have been merged into one (Earth Prime), so that means the Arrowverse is basically a free for all, when it comes to various characters popping in and out of all of the shows, since they no longer have to find reasons for them to travel inter-dimensionally.  Crazy!  Obviously, I doubt the shows will be doing this all the damn time, but I'm hoping to see what they have in store.  Really hope we get more of Kara and Kate meeting up, because they've really become a fun duo.

This being a Legends episode certainly gave it some tonal whiplash, but I was enjoying it.  Especially the return of Beebo!  I love how every non-Legends character was baffled and "What in the hell is going on, here?!" about it, while the Legends were like "Yeah, this happens from time to time."  The Legends really do seem to be off on their own world/universe, and I love them for it!

Nice having a lot of Barry/Sara scenes, since those two don't tend to interact much.  In general, it was a pretty strong episode for Sara/Caity Lotz.

Oh, Jefferson!  He really doesn't know what he's going himself into, here!

Lex is now beloved by everyone?  I wonder how that will come into play for the rest of Supergirl?  I wonder how Lena feels about him, now?

Baby Sara!  That was a nice way to get her back into the fold.

Brief set-up for the Superman/Lois show, I see.

Mick Rory continues to be the best pryo, alcoholic, babysitting romance novelist ever!

Overall, it was great seeing all of the characters together, the various cameos, and some surprisingly fun pairings (Kate/Kara, Barry/Jefferson, etc.), but I found the overall story underwhelming, and the Anti-Monitor was a bore of a villain.  Kind of wished they messed things around to have Lex be the main baddie somehow.  But I'm curious to see where the shows go from here, and especially how the final two episodes of Arrow will play out, since it truly looks like Oliver is gone. 

[UNOSEZ]

Like others I'm most excited about how the shows move FWD... What's the shared history of this earth.. I do expect more bleeding over of ppl heroes and villains alike... Tho with BL filming in Atlanta, still not sure how they're going to work him/ freeland in... How do they explain all his new hero friends letting that madness go on... As every other show is filming in Vancouver I think it opens the door for mini crossovers especially if someone has a light shooting day on their primary show.. But maybe we won't really see that until next season for everyone as the logistics for that.. Including paying folks must get tricky... I'm looking fwd to Iris and Kara.. Hell iris and any female of note having some meaningful conversation... Also excited that wally will be back for a bit

[Trisha]

The Legends hour was far and away the strongest part of the crossover, and I really liked how it positioned Sara as the next true leader of the group. I’m still very confused about the merging of the Earths (what happened to all the doppelgängers?) but emotionally this episode had the most impact for me. I got teary during the eternal flame/empty chair sequence- even though Oliver’s death the previous hour left me dry-eyed. 

[bettername2come]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

And somewhere out there Bruce Wayne's eye is twitching at "our first hero". 

I was too busy thinking “But Clark’s been doing this for like 15 years. And Black Lightning is on his second round of heroing, right?”

[MarkHB]

10 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Is this an indication that Green Lantern is on the horizon?

OMG, I thought that was from the Ryan Reynolds movie, it didn't occur to me that it could refer to the new HBO Max show.

Re: Lex now being a beloved humanitarian, this is EXACTLY what happened in the comics after the original Crisis.  The Lex from last season of Supergirl (and as discussed prior) was very much like the Silver/Bronze Age Lex: he was a supervillain, and everyone knew he was a supervillain. But in the post-Crisis John Byrne reboot, Lex was a millionaire businessman and renowned humanitarian, even though he was still actually evil (no one publicly knew that part).  So, in this version, when Lex was the Paragon of Truth and they were shaping the new Universe, he rewrote it with his truth, that he was the hero. I think we're lucky that he didn't make Superman an outlaw.

Black Lightning, if they were still focusing on things like Tobias, the 100 and drugs, I could see Jeff saying that those were things that the community had to solve itself and a bunch of outsiders coming in and punching things couldn't really fix anything long-term.  But this season, with Odell and the ISA either fighting or pretending to fight A HOSTILE FOREIGN MILITARY PRESENCE ON AMERICAN SOIL??? Hey, Jeff, your world has Superman now. (And I wonder if that lady President we saw is the same one who was behind Odell's operation.)

Interestingly, MG said on Twitter that he was specifically NOT allowed to use the phrase "Justice League." And I hope everyone who didn't see the actual show liked the glimpse of Swamp Thing.

But all in all I loved this thing, and even though I immediately recognized the hangar from Invasion, I still teared up at Gleek and the Super Friends music cue that ended it.

[adora721]

7 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I would've preferred for Lois and Clark to only have one kid. And I am not happy about the fact that we have no confirmation on Smallville Lois and Clark and their girls living.

That just Guggie giving his new favorites, Lois and Supes, something the Flash has - twins. 

I am concerned that the Smallville Earth didn't survive.

As for Oliver's kill count: At least he acknowledged that it was a failing in himself; I can respect him for admitting his darker truths.

Spoiler

Killer Frost is trying to pretend she's not an accessory to murder and has committed multiple murder attempts without apologizing to her victims. Now, that's hypocrisy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cyphodyas]

7 hours ago, Chyromaniac said:

Here’s what I took away - the A-M initially came into play during Mar’s time travel experiment.  However, at some point he was contained in that vault on E1, until Nash opened it setting off the Crisis.  I don’t know if we ever got any explanation on how A-M came to be locked away, or why Nash was so eager to try and destroy Mar.

In any case, I feel like I wanted more exploration of the fallout of the new merged universe - but I guess they’re saving that for next week’s shows.  It also would have been nice to get a better idea of how A-M survived the fight last episode- as it is, it just seemed tacked on for the sake of having one last dodgy CGI fight.  I’m also trying hard not to feel like it cheapened Ollie’s sacrifice - but it’s not entirely working so far.

The writing on the door to the vault where he was locked matched the Book of Destiny.

Since it's canon now that Mar Novu is Maltusian, I would say that along with the Tome of the Guardians they mentioned in the Flash episode, I would have to assume that means that the Maltusians will be the Guardians of the Universe from the comics.  So they likely would have had the technology both to lock him up and create the book. 

[adora721]

6 hours ago, Trini said:

The Paragon of Love not mentioning Iris at all? Not realistic. Disappointed, but not surprised. STAR Labs with no Cisco? Also not realistic.

 

True that!

[MarkHB]

I am eagerly waiting for the day Kara shows up at the Wayne Tower and Luke meets her.. hopefully they play with it for a bit before she takes off the glasses and does the Supergirl reveal to him.

[insomniadreams88]

From the part 4 thread

49 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

The fact that none of the so-called Olivers friends picked up a phone and called Felicity shows how little they actually cared. They are all bums. 

they did. To have her look for him like tech support or for them. No mention of his family’s loss whatsoever. Mia and William weren’t even mentioned. Rene and Dinah were too busy crying and acting like they’d suffered some major loss and no one else mattered. 

[UNOSEZ]

57 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

I am eagerly waiting for the day Kara shows up at the Wayne Tower and Luke meets her.. hopefully they play with it for a bit before she takes off the glasses and does the Supergirl reveal to him.

That would be fun... I'd also like to see Jeff and Barry interact... Same for Iris and the pierce girls... Sara and Alex... Charlie and Kate... Ryan and Cisco... Gambi and all the other tech ppl... Specifically Jennifer pierce and Sara... Joe and Gambi ( as surrogate dads for kids of a diff race who have to watch them run off into danger constantly)  and more that aren't on the tip of my tongue

[Velocity23]

16 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

From the part 4 thread

they did. To have her look for him like tech support or for them. No mention of his family’s loss whatsoever. Mia and William weren’t even mentioned. Rene and Dinah were too busy crying and acting like they’d suffered some major loss and no one else mattered. 

doesnt really count as such when you consider the magnitude of Olivers sacrifice. What they were just like hey Felicity sorry your husband died can you do us a favor? 

[tv echo]

Although I enjoyed all of the guest cameos and some of the personal interactions (like the heart-to-heart conversations), when all is said and done, my overall reaction to the COIE crossover is 'meh'... 

There wasn't much of a plot - and what plot there was made no sense in a lot of respects (the choice of Paragons, Oliver dying twice, the Monitor/Anti-Monitor origin story, the weird reconfiguration of the new multi-verse, etc.). Then the crossover ended with what felt like an infomercial for DC's other shows and streaming series.

A few nitpicks...

• How was untrained Ryan Choi able to fight the Shadow Demons?
• Sara's statement about Oliver being the last person to know her from her pre-Queen's Gambit days and her last tie to Earth is incorrect, isn't it? As far as I know, Sara's mother, Dinah Laurel Lance (Alex Kingston), is still alive.

But, hey, Baby Sara Diggle's back. So there's that.

Bottom line, this season's crossover was a hot mess and quite disjointed (Crisis On Earth-X was much more cohesive). Maybe MG should've spent less time trying to line up guest appearances and more time working on the storytelling and writing.

ETA: I read some MG interview where he talked about Oliver's death being partly about redemption for his past killings. But yet Sara (as a League assassin) and E2 Laurel (as Black Siren) also murdered a lot of people in their past, but now they're both considered heroes, and I doubt very much that they'll end up dead when their respective shows end.

Edited January 16, 2020 by tv echo

[mtlchick]

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

Lex is now beloved by everyone?  I wonder how that will come into play for the rest of Supergirl?  I wonder how Lena feels about him now?

 

Right now it seems the only people who know for sure are Kara and J’Onn. I know J’Onn said he was passing on the information to those who needed it so Alex and Nia must know, but what about Brainy or the DEO? It seems most people are acting that Flash, Supergirl and all the other heroes all co existed on Earth Prime and Lex was always “good.” Which makes you wonder what he did with the rest of the book because you know he always has a back up plan for everything. 

[Oreo2234]

Quote

I want more crossovers (like with single characters), but will they actually do them even with a merged universe? We'll see...

I hope so. I'm getting tired of the huge crossovers. It would be nice to see some smaller ones and characters cameoing or guest starring on other shows. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Oreo2234

[quarks]

10 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

🙂(Come to think of it, that is one missed opportunity in this crossover. We know an alternate version of Digg was a Green Lantern. Couldn't they have managed to bring that one into the mix?)

(sobs)

Further proof, if we needed anything beyond the ongoing set design issues, that Berlanti hates me.

[Writing Wrongs]

Fun episode. Beebo! And I loved how excited Kara was to see Kate there.

OT: What's with all the ads on the site now? I can barely read stuff without trying to dodge them.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Writing Wrongs

[quarks]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

The Paragon of Love not mentioning Iris at all? Not realistic. Disappointed, but not surprised. STAR Labs with no Cisco? Also not realistic.

Yeah. I'm not anti-Caitlin Snow/Killer Frost, but this episode really seemed to need Cisco at Star Labs, and at least one moment with Iris and Barry, more than it needed the Killer Frost/Rory scene.

And I don't even ship WestAllen. It just seemed more than a bit odd that what with Barry specifically named the Paragon of Love and after several episodes of anticipating Barry's death in Crisis and after all of the Barry/Iris scenes in the earlier crossover episodes and the fact that the last time we saw Iris, she was vanishing, that we didn't get some sort of scene with them.

[Sakura12]

Well the conclusion hour was better than the previous episode but it was still kind of anticlimactic. I like that Sara got to be more of a Leader in this episode than she has been for the past 2 years. She is the natural successor of Oliver. I'm sure' she'll go back to being Ava's girlfriend for the rest of the seasons, so I'll take Sara being important to the Arrowverse as whole and being a member of the Super Friends crumbs. 

I  know a Giant Beebo is a Legend thing so the rest were really out of their depth with how to handle the crazy. I really wish they put as much focus on the new Barry/Sara friendship as they did with the Kate/Kara friendship. They are all the new leads for the continuing crossovers. 

Unless we get more mini crossovers I don't see how this merged universe is going to matter much. I'll take even sharing villains. It would be fun to have team Flash mention that Genghis Khan was spotted in Central City and someone just goes, "did some call Sara?" Because I'm sure there's a lot involved with getting the the actors to cameo between shows. Or they could always just have them talk on the phone and do voiceovers. 

[jmonique]

Agreed with the question about wondering why Sarah's mourning everyone who knew her before the boat, and forgetting her mom is still alive?

Also, I'd love to see how someone explained to the President exactly how Oliver made this big sacrifice. It was a lovely speech, but literally no one else really should have realized the magnitude of the threat, right?

[adora721]

7 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

From the part 4 thread

they did. To have her look for him like tech support or for them. No mention of his family’s loss whatsoever. Mia and William weren’t even mentioned. Rene and Dinah were too busy crying and acting like they’d suffered some major loss and no one else mattered. 

Join the club. None of the so-called Team Flash members ever once asked Barry's wife how she was dealing with her husband's impending demise. The DC database describes KF as a sociopath who lacks empathy, but she asked Iris about how Ralph (the newest member) was dealing with Barry's impending death. She didn't inquire about how Iris was dealing with it.

It seems Team Arrow has the same issue with lack of empathy for the closest family members' feelings. Sigh....

Edited January 15, 2020 by adora721

[Twilight Man]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

See you at the next crisis, next year, everyone!

Legion of Doom??????

(Not that crappy-proto "Legion of Doom" with just the triumvirate of Zoom, Larry and Curly,

but a full-blown Legion with Lex, Tobias, Zoom, Savage, Deathstroke, etc.........)

or maybe.........   DARKSEID COMETH????

[Winston Wolfe]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Bottom line, this season's crossover was a hot mess and quite disjointed (Crisis On Earth-X was much more cohesive). Maybe MG should've spent less time trying to line up guest appearances and more time working on the storytelling and writing.

Yeah that's pretty much how I felt. The whole event had a "video game" feel to it where characters were plugged into arbitrary situations without much explanation or exposition - the fight scenes in particular felt that way. Marvel Studios has set the bar so high with movies like Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame that DC can only struggle to compete. And other than the Wonder Woman movie it kind of feels like they've given up.

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Seriously Barry and Kara were giving WTF faces. That's some serious cheer. Of course they've never seen a giant Beebo...

Someone on Twitter pointed out that his S symbol changed colors so I think you're right. Which I guess means that the restored Earths may have experienced some changes as well as Prime. I wonder if they'll play with that on Titans or Doom Patrol or if that's just going to be contained to the CW shows.

I really expected Barry and Kara's faces to light up with delight at seeing/meeting(?) Beebo!

Speaking of which, I need my OWN Beebo! I WANT MY BEEBO! He can sit right next to my Bats.

What?

11 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

 

I love this. Makes me all misty, because Routh is the one TRUE Supes from the CW. Because, you know Dean Cain was also awesome. We won't speak of the BDA* who whined and complained his way into the suit, and then didn't even...suit up.

And this image? *sniff* I miss you, Christopher Reeves. Takes me make to 1978's Superman.

* @BkWurm1

[shantown]

I have about 1,000 follow up questions on how things happened, or when, or why... but from interviews and new teasers from the shows it sounds like things will be answered on individual shows. So I'm holding out hope for now that there will be actual changes of consequence we just haven't had a chance to get into yet.

(Even though I think there should have been more deaths of characters, or tangible losses/changes, to ACTUALLY shake things up)

[insomniadreams88]

3 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

doesnt really count as such when you consider the magnitude of Olivers sacrifice. What they were just like hey Felicity sorry your husband died can you do us a favor? 

Oh, I agree. I’m very bitter about everything regarding Oliver’s family. Anyone who hasn’t watched Arrow would probably think Rene and Dinah were super close to Oliver, Felicity was just tech support they called for help, and his family could be anyone, really. No mention of Thea, William or Mia — who everyone just met and fought alongside! 

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Oh, I agree. I’m very bitter about everything regarding Oliver’s family. Anyone who hasn’t watched Arrow would probably think Rene and Dinah were super close to Oliver, Felicity was just tech support they called for help, and his family could be anyone, really. No mention of Thea, William or Mia — who everyone just met and fought alongside! 

With people remembering what happened but also noticing that there were differences in the new earth, it was so weird that they didn’t reach out to see if the people they loved were okay/still the same? No mention of Iris from Barry, no mention of Lyla from Diggle, no mention that anyone asked Felicity if Mia and William still exist. No one wondered about Thea - Sara didn’t mention her mom (but she gets forgotten all the time) or wonder if her dad or sister got brought back. So weird and emotionally detached. 

[Starry]

The show kept its wacky tone despite the fact that this was a Crisis episode. I was fine with it but could have done without the constant crossover mentions. Legends is such a crazy show for a moment there I thought the AntiMonitor had turned into a giant Beebo they needed to shrink.

This was a good episode for Sara as a leader and one of Oliver's closest team mates. I thought Oliver got a good send-off with how he was honored as a hero and beloved friend. I expect Mia to carry out his legacy and take his seat at the table if the spin-off proves to be successful.

I agree that Lex remembers everything and is just exploiting the situation.

Pariah was such a wasted character. The show combined his comic canon story with the Monitor's. It's not clear whose fault it is that the AntiMonitor grew in power and was able to do what he did. I can tell that some pieces were missing. But I am here for the Nash dragging to be honest. We'll never be free of the infinite versions of Harrison Wells but the worst thing about it is that all the Wellses are a variation of the same character type, an arrogant ass.

The Paragon of Humanity can write letters to his wife and have scenes with his baby ( those were cute moments by the way ). The Paragon of Love can't mention his love. I am so tired of being bitter all I can do is laugh. To add insult to injury, Barry watches Oliver be honored on TV with Caitlin Snow by his side. Only Ralph could have been a worse choice than her. It feels odd to have Caitlin there even if I go by the logic that the others' memories hadn't been restored yet.

It's a good thing that Reverse Flash didn't show up. Let's save that fight for a Flash episode. This wasn't a good crossover for Barry. Disappointed but not surprised.

I didn't understand the final Easter Egg. Don't know what Gleek is supposed to be.

 

[SilverLake0315]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

But I'm curious to see where the shows go from here, and especially how the final two episodes of Arrow will play out, since it truly looks like Oliver is gone. 

Not sure what part he'll have in the series finale, but the penultimate episode is just a backdoor pilot for the spinoff, so I imagine Oliver's absence doesn't play much of a part there.

[Trini]

7 hours ago, bettername2come said:

12 hours ago, Trini said:

And somewhere out there Bruce Wayne's eye is twitching at "our first hero". 

I was too busy thinking “But Clark’s been doing this for like 15 years. And Black Lightning is on his second round of heroing, right?”

Exactly! Them too.
 

6 hours ago, MarkHB said:

I am eagerly waiting for the day Kara shows up at the Wayne Tower and Luke meets her.. hopefully they play with it for a bit before she takes off the glasses and does the Supergirl reveal to him.

Obviously, it wouldn't be something serious, but I'd love to see them date for a little bit. Give Kara a love life!
 

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

A few nitpicks...

• How was untrained Ryan Choi able to fight the Shadow Demons?

I don't think he did any fighting? Yeah, he was in that scene, but I don't think he did anything.

35 minutes ago, Starry said:

It's a good thing that Reverse Flash didn't show up. Let's save that fight for a Flash episode. This wasn't a good crossover for Barry. Disappointed but not surprised.

It's just really glaring how Barry -one of the leads- didn't have a character arc during this whole crossover. Nothing much changed for him. Yes, he lost a friend, but seeing as how they ignored the Barry/Oliver relationship on each of their respective shows, and slacked on showing their bond in this crossover in particular, it doesn't feel like it's an actual loss that affects him moving forward.

There's the merge of universes and the formation of the Justice League, but those are things for everyone.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Trini
ugh -- dropped 'not'

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Trini said:

 

It's just really glaring how Barry -one of the leads- didn't have a character arc during this whole crossover. Nothing much changed for him. Yes, he lost a friend, but seeing as how they ignored the Barry/Oliver relationship on each of their respective shows, and slacked on showing their bond in this crossover in particular, it doesn't feel like it's an actual loss that affects him moving forward.

There's the merge of universes and the formation of the Justice League, but those are things for everyone.

Especially considering he is the character that introduced Crisis into this universe. So much build up and Iris' article is useless, the build up was for nothing. But these writers have never really been able to juggle multiple storylines that well. Unless he disappears in a different battle, he'll have had a more dramatic storyline in the original Nora timeline. 

6 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I was too busy thinking “But Clark’s been doing this for like 15 years. And Black Lightning is on his second round of heroing, right?”

That's why trying to give Oliver this big honor as being the "first" is lame in-universe. The audience knows he's the first show, it doesn't translate the same when they've showed various characters come before him.

[quarks]

28 minutes ago, Starry said:

I didn't understand the final Easter Egg. Don't know what Gleek is supposed to be.

 

Gleek is the blue monkey from the old Super Friends cartoon back in the 1970s. He usually followed the Wonder Twins around and ate a lot of bananas.

[Aeryn13]

As in the previous episode, I teared up a bit at points. 

It was a strong Sara ep and I liked that. Also her bonding more with Barry was nice. Of course it is super-convenient that the primary CW TV show heroes all have their Earths merged. But that was to be expected. 

I loved Mick at the book signing. He is actually quite pleasant to his fans. And apparently everyone reads his books. Heh.

The Anti-Monitor coming back was kind of anticlimactic but since they structured the x-over so that basically the big battle against the main baddie already happened in episode 4, I guess it kinda had to happen. Otherwise what do you do in ep 4? Just mop up?

Despite it being a wacky Legends episode, I thought they did a decent job of honoring the fact that Oliver had just died. Even if at points it was cheesy. The table at the end with the chairs and one empty one with the Arrow emblem was a nice touch. As was the eternal flame.  

[Quark]

It has all felt so mediocre. Maybe it's because I never read the comics so don't appreciate this, but it all just felt very uninspired. I'm curious, how accurate was this crossover to the comics?

Most of the acting was meh with a few standouts (namely Grant Gustin and Melissa Benoist).

Well done to everyone involved for trying though.

 

[adora721]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

The Anti-Monitor coming back was kind of anticlimactic but since they structured the x-over so that basically the big battle against the main baddie already happened in episode 4, I guess it kinda had to happen.

If the Anti-Monitor wasn't destroyed, since matter cannot be destroyed or created, then why isn't the Monitor also back? Plus, in the final Felicity episode of "Arrow,"

Spoiler

we see Mar Novu transport her to another realm to be with Oliver. Is that no longer canon?

 

[Aeryn13]

1 minute ago, adora721 said:

If the Anti-Monitor wasn't destroyed, since matter cannot be destroyed or created, then why isn't the Monitor also back? Plus, in the final Felicity episode of "Arrow,"

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we see Mar Novu transport her to another realm to be with Oliver. Is that no longer canon?

 

I think the Monitor is/will be back. They probably just didn't feel any need to show him here.

[adora721]

3 hours ago, Starry said:

The Paragon of Humanity can write letters to his wife and have scenes with his baby ( those were cute moments by the way ). The Paragon of Love can't mention his love. I am so tired of being bitter all I can do is laugh. To add insult to injury, Barry watches Oliver be honored on TV with Caitlin Snow by his side. Only Ralph could have been a worse choice than her. It feels odd to have Caitlin there even if I go by the logic that the others' memories hadn't been restored yet.

I almost went to bed last night fuming about this, but quickly realized that no fictional story is worth losing sleep. Just when you think that Iris is finally getting some respect, the crossover finds away to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. I don't know if that was a SB nod or just a blatant slap to WA fans with Barry not mentioning Iris at all. It reminded me of Barry watching Thawne's confession video with Cait in S2, which also made no sense. Either way, laughing is much better than crying about it, friend.

[Starry]

I forgot to mention that I loved that Kara got that epic shot when she was about to punch the AntiMonitor as hard and fast as she could to save her cousin. It reminded me of her comic fight with the AntiMonitor that was in my opinion so emotional I wanted the show to replicate it. It didn't last long and Ray had to interrupt her but I felt it for a second 😍

 

51 minutes ago, adora721 said:

I almost went to bed last night fuming about this, but quickly realized that no fictional story is worth losing sleep. Just when you think that Iris is finally getting some respect, the crossover finds away to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. I don't know if that was a SB nod or just a blatant slap to WA fans with Barry not mentioning Iris at all. It reminded me of Barry watching Thawne's confession video with Cait in S2, which also made no sense. Either way, laughing is much better than crying about it, friend.

I think the only time Iris got a mention in a crossover she wasn't in was last year during the Arrow episode*. They always exclude her so this was more of the same. Bitter and disappointed but not surprised.

I don't think that had anything to do with SB. I believe they had to show Barry listen to the President honor Oliver with someone from his team and since they don't have the budget to pay more actors and DP always has to be in more than one crossover episode Caitlin was the only option. I think it was an actor's preference. It's not like Barry and Caitlin spoke to each other or comforted each other or interacted on any level.

*The one time she didn't need to be mentioned. They only remember her for their petty Olicity vs. WestAllen nonsense.

 

[srpturtle80]

Loved this. Hated part 4 so much but this made up for it. LOT is my favorite Arrowverse show and their ep of the crossover did not disappoint me. I absolutely lost my shit when I realized the thing terrorizing the city was none other than Beebo!!

I am excited to see how this plays out on all the shows going forward! 

[Featherhat]

10 hours ago, Starry said:

I don't think that had anything to do with SB. I believe they had to show Barry listen to the President honor Oliver with someone from his team and since they don't have the budget to pay more actors and DP always has to be in more than one crossover episode Caitlin was the only option. I think it was an actor's preference. It's not like Barry and Caitlin spoke to each other or comforted each other or interacted on any level.

I can guarantee it had nothing to do with SB. They wanted KF for the shadow demon fights and especially since it was a LOT episode wanted her and Mick to meet up again and do their aggressive semi flirty thing since they were quite popular in COEX. Caitlin and Barry had no real scene together except the ending where they weren't going to pay anyone who wasn't already around to be in it. Sara and Barry had 1000x times the connection/personal scenes that Barry and Caitlin have had in several seasons.

Lots of other characters who could/should have been there weren't, including Oliver's family and half of the Legends, some there that weren't really needed, extremely frustrating as it was. Also if there are going to be some big character consequences they're keeping those secret for the individual shows. 

Watching it again, I enjoyed it, even though I am mostly still just whelmed. I didn't mind both the wacky and the cheese. Loved the Beebo bit and everyone except the Legends being so freaked out by that and wondering if this was the new normal.

J'onn flying around giving everyone back their memories was very convenient but at least he played a pivotal role. Really not sure how I feel about the new Lex storyline for Supergirl but we'll see. 

[Humbugged]

27 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I can guarantee it had nothing to do with SB. They wanted KF for the shadow demon fights and especially since it was a LOT episode wanted her and Mick to meet up again and do their aggressive semi flirty thing since they were quite popular in COEX. Caitlin and Barry had no real scene together except the ending where they weren't going to pay anyone who wasn't already around to be in it. Sara and Barry had 1000x times the connection/personal scenes that Barry and Caitlin have had in several seasons.

Lots of other characters who could/should have been there weren't, including Oliver's family and half of the Legends, some there that weren't really needed, extremely frustrating as it was. Also if there are going to be some big character consequences they're keeping those secret for the individual shows. 

Watching it again, I enjoyed it, even though I am mostly still just whelmed. I didn't mind both the wacky and the cheese. Loved the Beebo bit and everyone except the Legends being so freaked out by that and wondering if this was the new normal.

J'onn flying around giving everyone back their memories was very convenient but at least he played a pivotal role. Really not sure how I feel about the new Lex storyline for Supergirl but we'll see. 

Look up the promo for next week and a lot of it is explained including a currently missing Brainy being played by Meghan Rath the sister of Jesse Rath

[tv echo]

Just because I didn't like this crossover overall, especially these final two hours, doesn't mean that I don't appreciate what MG & Co. have accomplished. It was a massive, unprecedented undertaking to get all of those elements and guest stars from other DC franchises involved and included in this big television event, especially considering their time and budget limitations.

So congrats on doing that. They have earned and deserve lots of praise for that achievement alone.

But it's like Titanic winning the Oscar for Best Picture - recognition for the technical achievement rather than for the quality of the film itself.

Edited January 16, 2020 by tv echo

[Starry]

8 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I can guarantee it had nothing to do with SB. They wanted KF for the shadow demon fights and especially since it was a LOT episode wanted her and Mick to meet up again and do their aggressive semi flirty thing since they were quite popular in COEX.

Yes. Mick and Frost are a fun duo. But I wanted Mick to notice that his other crush Skirt is now wearing pants 😉

8 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Lots of other characters who could/should have been there weren't, including Oliver's family and half of the Legends, some there that weren't really needed, extremely frustrating as it was. Also if there are going to be some big character consequences they're keeping those secret for the individual shows.

After it was over I realized that Mia wasn't there. I think she was zapped back to the future after the new universe was born but it's odd no-one cared to look for her and William.

I expected this crossover to do more to sell the spin-offs but Clark was a non-entity and got overshadowed by Brandon's Superman, Mia disappeared after Part 3, Black Siren was completely absent and Dinah was benched. I don't mind that much but it's strange.

[Sakura12]

So do the paragons only remember the original timeline? While the ones that had their memories returned by J'onn remember both timelines? Do they have to learn about their histories on the new Earth.

[Featherhat]

5 hours ago, Starry said:

I expected this crossover to do more to sell the spin-offs but Clark was a non-entity and got overshadowed by Brandon's Superman, Mia disappeared after Part 3, Black Siren was completely absent and Dinah was benched. I don't mind that much but it's strange.

You're right there was much less spin off character selling than there might have been. Maybe it was making the most of BR whilst he's still around and as a parting gift. Let him play a good superman so he goes out on a high, definitely not the problem with that movie? I mean Lex overshadowed everyone in parts 1-3 especially and neither the character nor JC need selling. I guess they're banking on a "Superfamily" premise and the Superman (and Lois) name to sell it without showcasing TH, who has always got good reviews in the role and could have future appearances before his show. 

Dinah and Rene actually got more to do than I initially expected, I was thinking more like the "B Team" appearance in COEX but they were mostly there to look sad about Oliver even though they weren't that close to him and be exposition. Mia I guess got zapped back to the future and we'll see the changes next ep. Siren I have no idea why she wasn't there at all and why E1 had one frustrating scene. 

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

So do the paragons only remember the original timeline? While the ones that had their memories returned by J'onn remember both timelines? Do they have to learn about their histories on the new Earth.

I assume that's going to be addressed, it seems like it is from the various promos. Barry remembers the changes from before Flashpoint and whilst it was a big plot point in early S3 it's not mentioned now so I assume the paragons and those J'onn zapped are going to assimilate over the B-seasons of the shows with some of the changes showcased then next year things will be mostly new normal. 

Hopefully for viewers sakes as well as fictional characters' sanity events on this merged Earth will turn out to have played out similarly but each character couldn't help out with the other show's issues and more personal events because they were dealing with a different world ending crisis in May etc, which are the same excuses they've already been using. Aliens existing would probably have been ignored by Arrow if it was continuing but it's not a massive stretch for Flash or LOT and Batwoman probably won't change too much and BL will do its own thing in Atlanta/Freeland. 

[Wishing Well]

Once upon a time, there was a character who died during a Crisis crossover.

The episodes leading up to the Crisis involves him living his best life, meeting his descendants, bonding with his adopted and real family.  
 

During the Crisis, he nobly sacrificed his life and ran defenseless and weapon less into the melee, to buy his compatriots more time and to save the entire world.  
 

After the killing blow, we had a little time with him while he got to say goodbye to those he loved.  Even though he didn’t get to say goodbye to his wife and child, he was with his family still and died peacefully.  The team fought in his name and won the battle, and mourned him with all of their might, although they spent some time distracted by The Blue God.

In the end, the heroes thanked him for his sacrifice and for teaching them so much and promised to do better for him and publicly honored him.

RIP Professor Martin Stein.  A brilliant earned and executed death.

Not sure wtf happened here with Oliver.