S03.E09: Incomplete

[Trini]

Quote

Shaun is ready for the next step in his relationship with Carly; however, he continues to struggle as they grow closer and more intimate, and is dealt some troubling news about a deeply personal issue. Meanwhile, a young patient must decide on a treatment that could save her life or possibly destroy her marriage.

Written by Brian Shin and directed by Marisol Adler.

Airdate: 11/25/2019

[Good Doctor Fan]

I wonder what Incomplete is referring to?  Well. we'll find out soon.  🙂

[rhys]

Ack. Poor Shaun's girlfriend. Don't know how she does it.

Next week?! Am I the only one who is surprised by these 2 new people?

[Annber03]

Hoo, boy. That was an emotional episode. And to think, the winter finale isn't even here yet! What an interesting way to explore all the complexities, all the good, bad, and the ugly, of sex. 

Oh, Claire. I actually winced when that woman slapped her. It's good to finally see other people noticing something is wrong with her, though. Park's interaction with her this episode was really interesting, with him being very bluntly honest (his line in response to her "He made the vow, not me" comment-dang. And of course he would've noticed how close the crash was to her place), and yet it seemed to help her acknowledge some things she's been trying to avoid. And then Melendez at the end, proving comfort, was a nice touch. Hopefully now that others are noticing something's up, she can turn to them more often. 

And then everything with Shaun, from missing his old connection with Glassman to his struggles with Carly to that tragic news at the end. Poor guy. For a moment there, when he said, "It's not the tattoo", I thought maybe he was considering ending things with her. That ending did seem to have me wondering where he and Carly go from here, but I do like how they've been trying to work on these issues as they come up, so hopefully they'll figure this out, too. Lord knows Shaun's going to need all the support and love he can get going forward, it seems. 

(On a lighter note, I did find the whole bit with Shaun and Carly removing their shirts cute and amusing-had me wondering what the bloopers for that scene must've been like :p.)

Also regarding Carly, her conversation with Morgan was interesting, too. Morgan touched on some of the concerns that we've been discussing on this board, and I do think there was some honest concern on her behalf there, which is kind of surprising. 

And yet, I love how Carly responded to that, because even if and when Morgan is trying to be sincere, she does frequently sound condescending, and I liked that Carly made it clear that her interest in Shaun was genuine. 

I also liked Melendez and Lim's talk at the end. Whether they get back together or not, I do appreciate the way they're handling all of this. 

As for the couple Shaun and Morgan interacted with this episode, I don't blame Morgan for being wary of his intentions, but I do hope that his end speech to his wife was sincere. 

Bracing myself for the winter finale next week!

Edited November 26, 2019 by Annber03

[KaveDweller]

Wow, I really felt bad for Carly in this episode. She seems to really care about Shaun and is hurt that he is finding it hard to be close to her.

Interesting backstory on Morgan. I was surprised to hear her so against sex, but it sort of made sense once she told the story.

I'm not really looking forward to Shaun going to see his dying father. Why must there be so much depressing dramas on shows these days?

[Trini]

Poor Claire at the end! 😭  But I'm glad others are now clued in that she's going through something.

Me at her last scene: "Aw, someone's coming to talk to her - this better not be Resnick. Oh, cool, it's Park. Melendez!! Even better!"

Aw, I hope Shaun and Carly can work things out. Liked that she told Resnick what's what; and it addressed the concerns of some of the audience.

Not a fan of Resnick lecturing anyone when it comes to relationships, etc.

I kinda wish there had been a definitive breakup scene between Lim and Melendez. [ETA: Nevermind, I missed an episode] I like them together, but I'm not sure if I want them back together if it's going to cause more issues with their jobs.

Shaun and Glassman do need to set some boundaries; I hope Shaun will get used to it.

Edited December 1, 2019 by Trini

[Madding crowd]

I felt like the doctors were getting way too personal with the patients this episode. Morgan had no right to play counselor with that patient’s boyfriend. Also she was out of line with Carly. I felt bad for Carly, I think she really likes Shaun but having a platonic relationship may not work for her if she is being honest.

I still don’t understand the choice of the show producers on having Shaun so impaired socially. There are huge variations in behaviors in people with autism and if Shaun were a bit more comfortable with things they could have more storylines. On top of that Freddie Highmore looks very young so he seems almost like a kid. I did like Claire’s story and hope things will get better for her.

[bros402]

I felt bad for Carly in this episode, but I liked how Resnick and Carly pretty much had the conversation some people have been having here for a few weeks.

I hope Lim and Melendez get back together, they were great together.

I just hope Melendez providing comfort at the end doesn't mean they are gonna get together. I hope everyone realizes something is up with Claire and it finally comes out that her mom died.

Also, as an aside - Jasika Nicole actually has a sibling with autism. I remember reading that at some point when Fringe was on.
 

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I still don’t understand the choice of the show producers on having Shaun so impaired socially. There are huge variations in behaviors in people with autism and if Shaun were a bit more comfortable with things they could have more storylines. On top of that Freddie Highmore looks very young so he seems almost like a kid. I did like Claire’s story and hope things will get better for her.

I don't understand why they made him so socially impaired either - they could've focused more on sensory issues, but then they can't physically demonstrate sensory difficulties well. They have shown sensory issues in the past, but not often.

Freddie Highmore is 27. Jasika Nicole (Carly) is 39.

Edited November 26, 2019 by bros402

[thuganomics85]

Well, this was kind of a depressing episode in some ways, since it felt like almost no one was having a good time here.  Oh, show, you really know how to go straight at the emotions, huh?

Pretty much any scene with Sharif Atkins' character (cheating husband) made me go "Dammit, Agent Jones!  The rest of your White Collar buddies would be so disappointed in you!"  Still, while Claire wasn't innocent in a lot of this, I felt bad just seeing how low she has fallen.  I do like that Park is now realizing that something is going on with her, because he has always shown himself to be observant, and while he might not know the cause of it yet, it makes sense that he can clearly see that she is not on her game.  Curious about Melendez being the one to comfort her at the end.  I worry they might try some kind of romance with them, but I would much prefer to see it be about two people who are hurting and suffered losses, bonding together and helping each other out.

Even though she got her way at the end and I do agree that sex doesn't have to be the end all to be all for couples, Reznick's approach towards everything was obnoxious, and for all the complaints Shaun has had leveled at him for his bluntness and lack of social cues, I don't see how anyone hasn't launch a complaint yet over how she can be so openly judgmental and critical to the patients.  At least I got to watch Carly not put up with her bullshit, so I guess it all evens out.

Not surprised that Shaun couldn't bring things to the next level with Carly despite clearly wanting to, but I still feel for both of them, and I hope they somehow work it out.  But that really depends on if Shaun will ever be ready for sex and, honestly, if Carly is who he wants to be that intimate with.

I do think Debbie was right that Shaun and Glassman need to start forming better boundaries, but I can understand why it is hard on both of them, considering their friendship and history.  Both of them really are in uncharted territory and hopefully they can maneuver around everything.

Winter finale looks like it's going to get crazy!  Also seems like Lea will be featured heavily, which is interesting since she's kind of been on the back-burner so far this season.

[MVN-Hokies]

4 hours ago, bros402 said:

I hope Lim and Melendez get back together, they were great together.

I just hope Melendez providing comfort at the end doesn't mean they are gonna get together.

I hope Lim and Melendez work things out too, not sure if they will. 

Spoiler

Check out the TVLine.com article/interview with David Shore for more info on Lim/Melendez and their future 

As for Melendez and Claire, I completely agree! For one thing, I've never been a fan of even the idea of them together. And especially now that Melendez and Lim just broke up, I think it wouldn't make sense. It sure seems like Melendez would get back together with Lim if she was willing. Melendez made the comment that he was glad that their relationship mattered. If he quickly jumps into another relationship, to me that counteracts what he said.

I had a feeling it was going to be Melendez coming to check on Claire, but I was hoping it would be someone else (just so there isn't any chance of drama with the two of them)

[meira.hand]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I do think Debbie was right that Shaun and Glassman need to start forming better boundaries, but I can understand why it is hard on both of them, considering their friendship and history.  Both of them really are in uncharted territory and hopefully they can maneuver around everything.

After liking Freddie Highmore so much in this series I started watching Bates Motel and when Shawn said to Glassman: "I liked it better when it was just the two of us" I was eerily reminded of Norman Bates reaction to discovering his mother married the Sheriff. This is the third series where Freddie Highmore plays a character who is emotionally damaged in varying degrees (he played a returning soldier form ww2 suffering from PTSD in the BBC mini series Close to the Enemy, between the two last seasons of Bates Motel). What I find really impressive is how, while physically looking exactly the same he managed to give such completely different yet nuanced performances in all three series.

[SunnyBeBe]

As much as I like Shaun, his struggle in the sex department would be too exhausting. She must love him.  That would be very frustrating. 

Morgan went way overboard in inserting her personal opinion about the woman and her surgery.  What does she think? That she's a doctor on Chicago Med?  lol  To me, they should have explored other options and also how orgasm could be achieved without clitoral stimulation.  People can actually orgasm in their sleep without any physical contact.  Just saying.  They should have explored it more, imo.  

And, what kind of doctor tells a patient's wife to question her husband about fidelity?  Please....more Chicago Med BS! 

Highmore looks SO much like my actual doctor that it's scary, but, my doctor is in his 30's, so, it's even more bizarre how young he looks. 

[mojito]

Too much sharing on this show. Shaun telling his co-workers everything, announcing to Carly and everyone within earshot that they will have sex, the couple's discussion with the Shaun and Reznick within hearing distance. Melendez announcing in surgery that he and Lim were over when all he was asked was the name of a restaurant.

I liked the discussion between Resnick and Carly.

Shaun says he wants to have sex. But does he really, or does he think that's what he should be wanting? In her shoes, I would let Shaun take the initiative, but Creepy Carly insists on taking the lead. I hope she will allow Shaun to go at his own pace in the future. The guy is hesitant to hold your hand, for goodness sake. Talk about lacking in the social cue department...

Really, Claire? Did you think you deserved the slap or are you that dumb? How could you not see a slap coming? You're lucky she'd didn't go with a roundhouse punch instead. And philandering husband, why did you give up Claire? That was so uncalled for. 

Anyone else hoping against hope that it was going to be Shaun to join Claire on the staircase? That would show some serious progress (I know he wasn't working the same case as hers but that slap was very public).

[PinkRibbons]

Regardless of whether Claire deserved that slap, I hope that patient's wife is banned from the hospital for assaulting a staff member.

I think it was Melendez that went to comfort her as a seniority thing. I'm sure Park would have wanted to help, but getting compassion from her superior should at least help Claire if she's worried about ramifications of her action on her career.

Although Claire should probably have quietly gone to Andrews, Lim or Melendez as soon as she could to get taken off the case out of conflict of interest. Hope she doesn't catch too much hell for it, or if she does it gets her on the road to healing.

[TurtlePower]

Anyone else not like Debbie? She gets on my nerves so much. She tells Glassman to let Shaun do things on his own, then tells him that Shaun needs him—-back and forth, back and forth. I. Can’t. Stand. Her. 

Claire: ohmigosh. She should have seen the slap coming, though assault is never okay. I wonder what’s going on with her that she’s looking for men with whom she doesn’t want a commitment (there are dating sites for that, Claire). Maybe deep down, Claire thought she had it coming and maybe it was a wake up call for her to address her own issues. 

Poor Shaun, maybe he’ll never be ready.  I can’t read Carly as to whether she’ll truly be there for him everything that goes along with his autism. 

I’m anxious for next weeks episode And how Shaun deals with his dying dad as it’s somewhat personal for me. I had a poor relationship with my dad my whole life, he never accepted or tried to understand my disorders. There was something “wrong” with me. When he died last year, I felt relief for my mom that she didn’t have to put up with his shit any more (mixed with sadness/resentment that we never had a more normal relationship). I hope Shaun and his dad can have a moment before he dies, for both their sakes. I never got that moment. 

[rmontro]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

And, what kind of doctor tells a patient's wife to question her husband about fidelity? 

This was my main issue with this episode.  There seemed to be a lot of the doctors prying into their patients personal lives, without being invited to.

[Trini]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Morgan went way overboard in inserting her personal opinion about the woman and her surgery.  What does she think? That she's a doctor on Chicago Med?  lol  To me, they should have explored other options and also how orgasm could be achieved without clitoral stimulation.  People can actually orgasm in their sleep without any physical contact.  Just saying.  They should have explored it more, imo. 

I didn't expect them to go into detail, but it was odd that it wasn't brought up that the couple had ... options. They were all acting like without a clitoris/vagina sex was not possible.

I might have to re-watch, but she was going to not have a vagina after the surgery, right? Wouldn't she need an opening for menstruation?

[meira.hand]

1 hour ago, TurtlePower said:

Anyone else not like Debbie? She gets on my nerves so much. She tells Glassman to let Shaun do things on his own, then tells him that Shaun needs him—-back and forth, back and forth. I. Can’t. Stand. Her. 

I also don't like her personality and am often annoyed by her interference and meddling but in this case she was right on both counts. Its a matter of context and degree. Glassman does need to let Shaun handle more decisions on his own  but the death of his father is a major life change and anyone, especially young people, not just someone with Shaun difficulties, need emotional support to handle it.

[Lady Calypso]

37 minutes ago, Trini said:

I might have to re-watch, but she was going to not have a vagina after the surgery, right? Wouldn't she need an opening for menstruation?

I'd need to rewatch too, but from what I remember them telling her, the things she wouldn't be able to do was have intercourse and orgasm. 

1 hour ago, TurtlePower said:

Anyone else not like Debbie? She gets on my nerves so much. She tells Glassman to let Shaun do things on his own, then tells him that Shaun needs him—-back and forth, back and forth. I. Can’t. Stand. Her. 

Debbie is annoying...but I think she has had some correct points once in a while, such at this episode, when she told Glassman that he needed to set boundaries. She is right on that front; Shaun is entirely too dependent on Glassman telling him what to do, so they need to learn to deal with their own problems separately. 

So, I liked the Carly/Morgan conversation but it's just one thing that reminds me of what bugs me about the Carly/Shaun relationship. We hear about Carly/Shaun's greatest moments, but we aren't seeing it. All we're seeing is the issues that arise. And, sure, their relationship does come with issues that they need to face, but we aren't getting a break from those issues, where we can see the two being a happy couple. They're getting better as they're learning more and communicating more, but I just want an episode where we could have seen Carly/Shaun stay up working until 3am. 

Shaun may never want to have sex, and Carly's going to need to decide if sex is that important to her. But this relationship has always had an expiry date. I think Shaun/Carly being together is more to help both characters learn and grow from one another, which isn't a bad thing. Carly is learning about patience, and Shaun is learning about communication and compromise.

Morgan was definitely too nosy about the couple and their sex life. That's one of the turn-offs about Morgan, and has been since she was introduced.

Claire's case was sad for her. But it looks like she's finally reached that breaking point. I'm glad Park figured out that something was wrong, even if he doesn't know what, and I was ok with Melendez going to comfort her at the end. Maybe Claire can finally get the help that she needs.

So, Shaun's father is dying. I guess that's a way to get Shaun to get back in touch with his family, even just for closure.

[izabella]

12 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Morgan was definitely too nosy about the couple and their sex life. That's one of the turn-offs about Morgan, and has been since she was introduced.

In all fairness, Shaun was the one who dragged her into his sex life by talking about it and asking her inappropriate questions about her sex life.  In all fairness, it is always Shaun who drags Morgan and Claire and Leah and everyone else into his relationship instead of talking directly to Carly.  It's true they don't have to go to Carly with anything, but half the time, Shaun ASKS them to.

[morriss]

I think Resnick is right, Shaun is just Carly's project.

[kicotan]

13 hours ago, Trini said:

Not a fan of Resnick lecturing anyone when it comes to relationships, etc.

Resnick proved in the last episode she has absolutely NO business lecturing anyone on relationships that include sex.  Any fully grown adult woman who has no reservations sexually stimulating a 12 year old boy CLEARLY has issues regarding healthy adult consensual sexual relationships.

Im pretty sure Resnick would have sex with Shaun for all the wrong reasons if he showed an interest, so she’s got no business lecturing Carly on her motivations.

I cant wrap my head around being sexually attracted to someone so sexually immature and uptight as Shaun...on the spectrum or not...but to each their own.

[Good Doctor Fan]

Still don't see any chemistry between Shawn and Carly.  But I did really like the way Carly spoke to Morgan about Shawn.  I wonder what was going on with Shawn... Is it just nerves or is Carly not the right person for him?  I just saw a lot more chemistry between him an Leah.  Carly must have the patience of a saint because I'm losing patience with what's holding Shawn back.

Poor Clair.  She pushed that woman so hard to force her husband to tell the truth.  Did she want to be found out?  I have really liked the Melendez/Clair relationship, so I was very happy to see him go to her.  They don't have to become a couple, but their relationship is cool.

Can't wait for the next episode!  

[tennisgurl]

If I am ever in a medical emergency, I am going to go ahead and ask all of my doctors if they have any current or past personal issues going on that they need to deal with, and if that will influence their job trying to deal with whatever is wrong with me. 

Oh Claire, its so sad seeing her end up this way, especially her deliberately looking to sleep with a married man. She needs to deal with this, its not only hurting her, its also hurting her job performance, going back to the alcoholic a few weeks ago, and I would hate to see her do something that she regrets and puts her career in jeopardy. I am glad that at least people are noticing that something is happening (although its still seems like people would have heard that her mom died by now) and Park really let her have it when she threw out the old "I didnt make the vow" excuse, which even Claire knew was crap. It was nice to see Melendez comfort her, they have a really nice relationship, especially now that they seem to have stopped with the possible shipping...hopefully. 

Resnick really needed to chill with her whole "sex is dumb and bad and evil" stuff, lecturing the fiance and trying to influence the couples medical choices because of her own crap. Shaun almost got fired for being too blunt, but at least Shaun is rarely deliberately mean to people, especially patients, and he certainly never accused someone of wanting to let their fiance die because "you want to get laid" or anything, but you never hear about her getting written up! Poor couple, you guys dont need sex, The Mandalorian just came out! 

The talk between Resnick and Carly was also interesting, and seemed to echo a lot of conversations fans have had about this storyline, including on this very board. Resnick might have actually meant well, but she came off as really condescending, and I am with Carly on that one, her acting like Shaun isnt an actual adult who can have adult relationships is a really crappy thing to do. As for why Carly likes Shaun, I can certainly see why, even with some of the difficulties. He is a very kind and well meaning person who clearly likes Carly a lot, even if the sex stuff is complicated. For some people, no matter where they might be on the spectrum or not at all, sex is complicated, and they need to go slower. 

Shaun's father was such a jerk, but maybe Shaun can find some closure with his family seeing him before he dies, and presumably his mother too. 

[auntiemel]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

I didn't expect them to go into detail, but it was odd that it wasn't brought up that the couple had ... options. They were all acting like without a clitoris/vagina sex was not possible.

Yeah, when the guy said, "We'll always have..." and then followed it up with things like honestly, love, vulnerability, etc., I found out exactly how immature I am, because I replied (out loud, mind you), "Yeah, and don't forget that you'll always have the Three Bs - Blow Jobs, Boobs, and Butt Stuff!" 🤣

[meatball77]

I also didn't get the case.  If they can create a vagina for a transgender man you would think that they would be able to create something so she could have sex right?  Losing her clitoris would be terrible but I can't imagine that there couldn't be a surgical option to make sex possible for her.

[izabella]

The husband was talking about how they would have babies, along with the love, so I'm under the impression they could still have sex, but she wouldn't orgasm with her clitoris removed.  Which makes sex a lot less fun for her, but still not impossible, unless removing her clitoris makes her sex drive disappear too?  Lots of women have trouble with orgasms but they have sex anyway.  It was a very confusing storyline and I didn't really understand what they were doing to her or saying, except that she was likely to die from sex at some point.

[rhys]

I feel like such an idiot. How long has this show been on? I thought Shaun was an orphan. Gah!

[milner]

I too was thinking Shaun was an orphan. When I saw the preview I vaguely remembered an angry father but nothing else.  Could someone please remind me how he came to be placed in care after his brother’s death. Thank you 

[KaveDweller]

7 hours ago, Trini said:

I didn't expect them to go into detail, but it was odd that it wasn't brought up that the couple had ... options. They were all acting like without a clitoris/vagina sex was not possible.

I might have to re-watch, but she was going to not have a vagina after the surgery, right? Wouldn't she need an opening for menstruation?

I kinda wanted more details about what she was having removed. Cause her ovaries weren't going to be impacted so she would still menstruate. But I thought they said she couldn't have intercourse, not just that she wouldn't have orgasms.

They said she could have kids with a c-section, so that suggests there wouldn't be a full opening. But there has to be a way to get her pregnant.

I know it is TV and they don't want to waste time with details, but I thought it was odd she said no without asking a whole bunch more questions.

1 hour ago, milner said:

I too was thinking Shaun was an orphan. When I saw the preview I vaguely remembered an angry father but nothing else.  Could someone please remind me how he came to be placed in care after his brother’s death. Thank you 

The father couldn't deal with Shaun's autism and I think was verbally abusive.  I think he killed Shaun's pet rabbit or something? Anyway, the brother wanted to protect him, so he convinced Shaun to run away. They were on their own before the brother died. We never really saw details of where Shaun lived after that. 

[sweetandsour]

Sorry if this has been discussed heavily in previous episode threads, but what have Carly and Shaun done beyond lying in bed together with their clothes on?  I feel like that's the last thing I saw them struggling with and starting to make strides with.  Have they done other stuff?  Because there is a chasm of physical contact between lying next to each other for more than 15 seconds at a time and full-on sex.  Sure, a lot of people can jump right to sex, but obviously Shaun's the polar opposite.  He's felt her breasts and really enjoyed that, but have they touched each other below the waist with clothes on, clothes off?  Have they stimulated each other manually or orally?  I don't expect them to show this, but there are other ways to convey those incremental steps.  It's coming off as they went straight to trying P in the V.  It also seemed like taking their shirts off and looking at each other was a first, too.  But Shaun was supposed to go from that "first" immediately to the plunge of penetrative sex?  And Carly was disappointed (not sure if she was surprised) that he wasn't able to do that yet?  ... Has she met Shaun? ...

Debbie continues to annoy.  I really have to wonder about her own personal life.  I don't expect the show to give screen time to her friends and family, even when she got married, but does she have any?  I feel like she doesn't understand the paternal relationship between Glassman and Shaun, and the fact that "having other people in his life" doesn't mean that Shaun doesn't need Glassman.  And she's incredibly hypocritical talking about needing to set boundaries when she's shown as not being able to acknowledge/heed boundaries herself.  (See: free coffees on the cafe's dime, not hers; insisting Glassman hire her; etc.)  She strikes me as the type who would expect to be the #1 person in Glassman's life at all times by virtue of being his wife, even if Glassman's daughter was still alive.

[preeya]

Four couples, and if you count Shaun & Glassman it's five, all with relationship problems/issues, just too much for one episode.

Co-workers, superiors/subordinates should NEVER be in a relationship on a show billed as a drama. Save all that shit for soap operas.

Edited November 27, 2019 by preeya

[Kfir]

23 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Wow, I really felt bad for Carly in this episode. She seems to really care about Shaun and is hurt that he is finding it hard to be close to her.

Interesting backstory on Morgan. I was surprised to hear her so against sex, but it sort of made sense once she told the story.

I'm not really looking forward to Shaun going to see his dying father. Why must there be so much depressing dramas on shows these days?

I have no sympathy for her at all. She knew what he was like, that 1,000 yard stare he has if nothing else is enough to make you realize he is not on the same wavelength. Given she works in the medical field she should be even more aware of how futile it all is. 

Is the show depressing though? I am starting to think I have got it all wrong. It's a comedy, right? I mean trying to get a kid into a strip club, trying to seduce an autistic man, a doctor flashing her boobs at an underage patient, an autistic doctor? 

I mean, it's not meant to be taken seriously, right?

10 hours ago, morriss said:

I think Resnick is right, Shaun is just Carly's project.

I very much feel like that. I can't help but wonder if she succeeds to a point that satisfies her curiosity will she just dump him.

[Fable]

I’m still not enjoying Shaun’s and Carly’s continuing saga, but at least we were "told" that their relationship is not all drama all the time.  I did feel bad for her though because she seems to go above and beyond in trying to make things work with him. 

I’m beginning to wonder though if Shaun is just not into her as much as he thinks he is or at least wishes he was.  It is almost as if he has certain expectations of himself as far as what a physical or emotional intimate relationship should be, even though he isn’t there, at least with Carly and is trying to go through the motions. He seems fairly insecure in their relationship and is always looking for outside reassurances or guidance as to what a relationship is supposed to be like.  Carly clearly wants more than he is ready to give to her, and as patient and understanding as she may be, there is going to come a point that they need to realize that things are just not working. 

[catrice2]

I am exhausted with Shaun and Carly and how much time they give to the two of them. Between them and Resnick and the boring Lim and Melendez romance I am starting to tire of the show. Claire is constantly having some crisis and no moments where she can just have fun, and i don't know what they've done to Andrews.  Glassman was always a weak link to me.  

[possibilities]

After Shaun's brother died, Shaun was in foster care. We saw him in a few places, and it seemed like there was ONE that was really good for him, but it ended when the foster mother got sick (I think it was cancer) and he was moved elsewhere. I don't remember all the details, but it seemed like he was bounced around a lot, and Glassman was his only on-going relationship. He knew Glassman because after his father brutally murdered the pet rabbit, they took it to Glassman, I think? Was Glassman a vet? I'm a bit confused.

My guess is that he wound up in foster care because once his brother died, it was discovered that thed'd run away due to extreme abuse at home. Their father was violent and their mother was shown to be weepy and helpless.

----

Autistic people do have intimate relationships. A highly publicized recent celebrity example is that Amy Schumer (actress/comedian) is married to an autistic man. She has talked about it in interviews, and written about it.

The show is really messing up by not showing more of what's great about Shaun as a partner, and only focusing on the challenges. Carly telling Resnik was not enough. If all you portray in great detail week after week is how hard things are, and then spend a few sentences on saying it's not that bad, well... that's not effective storytelling.

Edited November 27, 2019 by possibilities

[rmontro]

13 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

Anyone else not like Debbie? She gets on my nerves so much.

Glassman has been way more likable this year, but in the first two seasons, frankly he was an irritating jackass.  It's no surprise he would marry someone who also might be a little on the annoying side.

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

If I am ever in a medical emergency, I am going to go ahead and ask all of my doctors if they have any current or past personal issues going on that they need to deal with, and if that will influence their job trying to deal with whatever is wrong with me. 

I'm going to ask them if they can solve any personal problems that I might be having at the time.  I'll also make it a point to have intimate conversations with loved ones within their earshot.

[heyitsme87]

I admittedly dont know the nuances of autism regarding intimacy, but with every passing episode Shaun is looking more and more like a inexperienced 14 yeard old and  Carly is looking like she is taking advantage even though I know she is not.  I cringe and turn away at all of their scenes. 

[bros402]

21 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Pretty much any scene with Sharif Atkins' character (cheating husband) made me go "Dammit, Agent Jones!  The rest of your White Collar buddies would be so disappointed in you!" 

That's where I recognized him from! I could not figure out what show I recognized him from!

17 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Highmore looks SO much like my actual doctor that it's scary, but, my doctor is in his 30's, so, it's even more bizarre how young he looks. 

My neurologist looks vaguely like Tom Ellis (Lucifer on Lucifer). No accent, though.

10 hours ago, meatball77 said:

I also didn't get the case.  If they can create a vagina for a transgender man you would think that they would be able to create something so she could have sex right?  Losing her clitoris would be terrible but I can't imagine that there couldn't be a surgical option to make sex possible for her.

With transwomen, they use a lot of the existing tissue to create a vagina. From what I understood in this episode, they had to remove sections of the vagina in order to remove the lesions near the clitoris. Which would make her unable to orgasm, and the scar tissue would probably make sex rather painful.

9 hours ago, milner said:

I too was thinking Shaun was an orphan. When I saw the preview I vaguely remembered an angry father but nothing else.  Could someone please remind me how he came to be placed in care after his brother’s death. Thank you 

His parents were abusive (his mother enabling) and did not want to deal with him

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

After Shaun's brother died, Shaun was in foster care. We saw him in a few places, and it seemed like there was ONE that was really good for him, but it ended when the foster mother got sick (I think it was cancer) and he was moved elsewhere. I don't remember all the details, but it seemed like he was bounced around a lot, and Glassman was his only on-going relationship. He knew Glassman because after his father brutally murdered the pet rabbit, they took it to Glassman, I think? Was Glassman a vet? I'm a bit confused.

My guess is that he wound up in foster care because once his brother died, it was discovered that thed'd run away due to extreme abuse at home. Their father was violent and their mother was shown to be weepy and helpless.

----

Autistic people do have intimate relationships. A highly publicized recent celebrity example is that Amy Schumer (actress/comedian) is married to an autistic man. She has talked about it in interviews, and written about it.

The show is really messing up by not showing more of what's great about Shaun as a partner, and only focusing on the challenges. Carly telling Resnik was not enough. If all you portray in great detail week after week is how hard things are, and then spend a few sentences on saying it's not that bad, well... that's not effective storytelling.

Yeah, the good foster mom got cancer.

I hope they have an episode or two where it isn't focusing on the challenges, that would be nice.

1 hour ago, heyitsme87 said:

I admittedly dont know the nuances of autism regarding intimacy, but with every passing episode Shaun is looking more and more like a inexperienced 14 yeard old and  Carly is looking like she is taking advantage even though I know she is not.  I cringe and turn away at all of their scenes. 

There isn't a single guideline for people with autism and intimate relations. Every case is different. Shaun has a lot of sensory issues, so I would expect the first place for them to start would probably be a condom - see how Shaun feels about having it on.

Shaun is inexperienced sexually, that is a fact. He just had his first kiss less than two years ago - but he just needs to acclimate to things.

[Kfir]

3 hours ago, Fable said:

I’m still not enjoying Shaun’s and Carly’s continuing saga, but at least we were "told" that their relationship is not all drama all the time.  I did feel bad for her though because she seems to go above and beyond in trying to make things work with him. 

I’m beginning to wonder though if Shaun is just not into her as much as he thinks he is or at least wishes he was.  It is almost as if he has certain expectations of himself as far as what a physical or emotional intimate relationship should be, even though he isn’t there, at least with Carly and is trying to go through the motions. He seems fairly insecure in their relationship and is always looking for outside reassurances or guidance as to what a relationship is supposed to be like.  Carly clearly wants more than he is ready to give to her, and as patient and understanding as she may be, there is going to come a point that they need to realize that things are just not working. 

Carly has had so many warning flags though. For me that night they watched a film and she wanted to hold hands but he didn't want to at first. Then later on he tells her that they shouldn't have to do anything like that because it makes him feel uncomfortable but it doesn't make her uncomfortable not to do it. 

Like, he just assumed it was ok for her to have a boyfriend without the physicality. 

1 hour ago, heyitsme87 said:

I admittedly dont know the nuances of autism regarding intimacy, but with every passing episode Shaun is looking more and more like a inexperienced 14 yeard old and  Carly is looking like she is taking advantage even though I know she is not.  I cringe and turn away at all of their scenes. 

I feel like they are using each other but it is all so cringeworthy. He is the ultimate "fixer 'er upper" so Carly no doubt enjoys that, to an extent. 

For him, he just sees everyone else and thinks that if they have a partner than so should he. There is no real understanding of anything he wants though. It's like a child who says they want a new toy because their friends all have one. 

Then he gets the toy and casts it aside because it was more exciting from afar and when he didn't have one.

[tvfanatic13]

Since I was half watching, how did the woman know that Claire slept with her husband?

[chitowngirl]

1 minute ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Since I was half watching, how did the woman know that Claire slept with her husband?

After husband’s operation, Claire told wife, now that he is stable, you can talk to him about his cheating. We didn’t see it, but presumably she did and he told her that he cheated with Claire. Then wife came out and slapped Claire.

[sadie]

Count me as one also not enjoying the Carly/Sean relationship.  It just seems “off” on her side and by that I mean: Anyone that has dated has encountered some mitigating factor (interfering ex wives, children issues, financial issues, inability to commit, etc) that just make the relationship not work and you can only try so hard before you just acknowledge it ain’t gonna work. I’m not laying this at the feet of “autism”, it just happens to be Sean’s quirk, and Carly seems awful disappointed and unfulfilled but she just keeps trying. Why? Almost like she doesn’t want to admit it’s not working and is just trying to prove a point to herself. Their scenes make me cringe because she just doesn’t seem to be getting the message. The guy can’t hold YOUR HAND, you expect him to put his P in your V (sorry not trying to be crude). What is wrong with this woman? 

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm no expert, but, wouldn't a sex expert help Shaun and Carly? I would think that Shaun watching some things to get him acclimated might help.  If he sees how happy the orgasm is for Carly, it might make a difference. He's very motivated about how things work.  You know, press here, this is the result. So,........just saying that pressing the right buttons might inspire him onward. lol 

[DearEvette]

Honestly at this point, I feel that Shaun and Carly's relationship is more damaging to Carly than it is to Shaun.  People seem so laser focused on Carly's motives and actions without also examining Shaun's.  I feel like he is being given a huge pass with all the burden of what is going wrong with the relationship is placed squarely and solely on her. But given what we know about how his mind works, he envisions and calculates situations and outcomes.

Given what we learned with this episode, it sounds awfully like she just really likes him and is willing to put in every effort to make the relationship work, making concession after concession after concession, whereas he just seems like he wants someone and has calculated Carly is the most likely candidate.

I agree I don't feel the chemistry but I think that lack is coming from Shaun, not from Carly.  Frankly, I just wish she'd throw in the towel for her own well being.

I am also glad that we've reached (I hope) a turning point with Claire.  Man, Antonia Thomas can cry!  I did not enjoy at all her downward spiral.  I also hate that she deliberately slept with a married man.  And while I agree with her that he is the one with the bigger sin having been the one to make the vows, it is never a good look to be knowingly party to adultery.  And while I am sure the wife got a great momentary satisfaction from slapping Claire, that is all it will be is momentary, because Claire is not her problem.  Her husband is.

Morgan's entire everything in this episode bugged the hell out of me.  She was condescending on every level, with the couple and with Carly.  And I hate it when people think they can dispense sage, all knowing advice that is supposed to be some universal truth because of that one time that one something happened with them and therefore it must be true all the time.

[preeya]

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

With transwomen, they use a lot of the existing tissue to create a vagina. From what I understood in this episode, they had to remove sections of the vagina in order to remove the lesions near the clitoris. Which would make her unable to orgasm, and the scar tissue would probably make sex rather painful.

Didn't Jackson Avery do vaginoplasty surgery on Grey's Anatomy?

[Evagirl]

I believe Shaun will have sex this season, but not with Carly.  Looking at the Fall Final preview we see Shaun weeping in the bed with Lea, spooning not only tightly but they are clasping hands as well.  THAT is the intimacy Carly wanted.

I think the writers will drop the Shaun/Carly story and pick up with Shaun/Lea.  Number one, those two have more on screen chemistry, and number two Lea is closer to Shaun's age.  She "gets" Shaun just as much as Carly.  She was his first "girlfriend".  Carly's reactions to Shaun is so over-the-top that it doesn't even seem real.  She's doing all of the giving and Shaun is doing all of the taking.  Perhaps though it's the way the show is being written.  If they show Shaun/Carly doing other couple stuff, maybe I could see what she sees in Shaun.  But all I see are his rejections of everything she's trying to do to make it work.

[TurtlePower]

9 hours ago, heyitsme87 said:

I admittedly dont know the nuances of autism regarding intimacy, but with every passing episode Shaun is looking more and more like a inexperienced 14 yeard old and  Carly is looking like she is taking advantage even though I know she is not.  I cringe and turn away at all of their scenes. 

It’s different for everyone with autism. There’s been a long-standing belief that people with autism don’t like/want sex, but this is not always so. Those scenes are awkward for me to watch, too. Can’t explain why. 

I feel like Shaun is much more comfortable with Lea. She’s been way less annoying this season and I like her way more than I used to. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by TurtlePower

[Evagirl]

44 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

I feel like Shaun is much more comfortable with Lea. She’s been way less annoying this season and I like her way more than I used to. 

I agree.

[rmontro]

3 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

It’s different for everyone with autism. There’s been a long-standing belief that people with autism don’t like/want sex, but this is not always so. Those scenes are awkward for me to watch, too. Can’t explain why. 

Shaun clearly appears to want sex, but struggles with the intimacy involved.  He's stuck in a sort of paradox with no clear way out.

Carly wants intimacy and sex, but she also knows she's dating an autistic person.  She's been patient, but has also clearly been frustrated every step of the way.

Not sure where this is going.  Probably a breakup, unless Shaun makes a breakthrough somehow.