S03.E08: Chapter Eight: The Battle of Starcourt

[methodwriter85]

32 minutes ago, Blue Plastic said:

Particularly the “tunnels under the mall” and “Russians grab Steve and Robin” went on way too long. 

While it's great to have LGBT representation, I really hated that this show went the route of having Robin "confess" to being fixated on Steve in high school, only to turn it around and go, "Well, silly straight boy, it wasn't because I liked you- it's because I'm jealous that the girlies like you because I like girls, too!" I thought it was a pretty condescending plot point meant to deliberately mislead the audience for a later "gotcha" moment. I was also once a gay high school kid- I don't remember being fixated on the popular girl that all the cute straight guys wanted to hook-up with. I was fixated on the straight cute guys, like duh! I like the friendship and I thought it was cool to have it but this show spent WAY too much time building up what I'd called a "fake out" ship. I would have had still had Robin confess to Steve about being a lesbian, but I would have taken out that whole bit where Robin (and the writers) make it sound like Robin had feelings for him in high school. Hell, they still could have kept up Steve confessing to liking her, and it largely would have been the same story without giving me a bad taste in my mouth.

I liked Robin a lot but this show spent way too much time on her as well as Erica considering that Max/Billy didn't have any kind of scene together yet we're supposed to feel it as a major loss for her when he dies. Are we supposed to base everything from season 2 where all Billy does to Max is terrify her and abuse her? They needed to do more there in order to pay that off. Dacre and Sadie did their best to try and make it work but they just flat out did not have the backstory.

Overrall, I did prefer season 3 to season 2, though.

Edited July 6, 2019 by methodwriter85

[Robert Lynch]

I know everyone saying from episodes 5 or 6 onwards that the boys' shorts were getting shorter, but none beats Noah Hathaway's short shorts that go passed the thigh region. It is also from the same year or thereabouts that this show takes place.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Robert Lynch

[Robert Lynch]

16 minutes ago, Robert Lynch said:

I mean, have you seen these things?

Edited July 6, 2019 by Robert Lynch

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Damn, Jonathan got major points for trying to cut that thing out of Eleven's leg. He got even more points for being willing to stick his hand in to try to take it out. Blech!

I thought that Murray would be the one to sacrifice himself while saving the world. I really didn't think that the show would kill off a beloved main character like Hopper. Then I thought the show wouldn't miraculously keep him alive like they did with Eleven so OF COURSE he's in Russia. His letter to Eleven was so heartfelt and honest. I'm glad she has that to keep as a reminder of how much he loved her.

While I understand Joyce following through with her plan to leave Hawkins (and who can blame her after losing Bob and Hopper?), I thought it wasn't necessarily the best choice for Will and Eleven who have been through a lot and need the emotional support of their friends. Sure, kids can make new friends, but it's not like Will and Eleven can tell their new friends about demogorgons, mind flayers, and secret Russian bases under the mall.

Poor Max. Billy was a shit to other people, but she loved her brother. I guess at least she got to see him trying to do one last good thing.

My favorite thing about this show is still the kids' friendships. I get why they broke them up into groups, but I hope we get to see more of them hanging out together next season.

Edited July 6, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Smad]

5 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

While it's great to have LGBT representation, I really hated that this show went the route of having Robin "confess" to being fixated on Steve in high school, only to turn it around and go, "Well, silly straight boy, it wasn't because I liked you- it's because I'm jealous that the girlies like you because I like girls, too!" I thought it was a pretty condescending plot point meant to deliberately mislead the audience for a later "gotcha" moment. I was also once a gay high school kid- I don't remember being fixated on the popular girl that all the cute straight guys wanted to hook-up with. I was fixated on the straight cute guys, like duh! I like the friendship and I thought it was cool to have it but this show spent WAY too much time building up what I'd called a "fake out" ship. I would have had still had Robin confess to Steve about being a lesbian, but I would have taken out that whole bit where Robin (and the writers) make it sound like Robin had feelings for him in high school. Hell, they still could have kept up Steve confessing to liking her, and it largely would have been the same story without giving me a bad taste in my mouth.

Why not make Robin bisexual? It would have fit much better with the setup during the Season than her coming out as gay. Which as you said made no sense. It's tiring only seeing gay/lesbian in shows/movies. Bisexuals (or even asexuals) should get more time on screen. They could have had her elaborate on the story of being jealous (a fake out that in hind-sight made no sense) by having her tell Steve that she was both jealous of him and fond of him on account of the fact that she was into him but also into some of the girls throwing themselves at him. And they could still have had her reject him because she got over her high school infatuation with him.

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I thought that Murray would be the one to sacrifice himself while saving the world. I really didn't think that the show would kill off a beloved main character like Hopper. Then I thought the show wouldn't miraculously keep him alive like they did with Eleven so OF COURSE he's in Russia. His letter to Eleven was so heartfelt and honest. I'm glad she has that to keep as a reminder of how much he loved her.

I was hoping if they were going to kill someone off, it would be either Nancy or Jonathon. God they are both so boring on screen (sorry actors). It seems like the only reason they killed him off is because they wanted Eleven out of Hawkins which wouldn't have happened if Hopper was alive. And that's frankly a dumb reason to kill a vital character like him off.

I'm not even sure if he's the American in Russia because it seems too obvious. It also makes no sense. How did he get there? It can't be the laser because that would be stupid (since everyone else exploded from it). So the only other way would be for him to be sucked or whatever into the Upside Down world. And I'm supposed to believe he traveled across the ocean or flew a plane from America to Russia, in the Upside Down and having absolutely no reason to make this journey to begin with? There is no way I would buy the American in Russia being Hopper. Much as I would love for him to still be alive. It would be much smarter to have him be sucked into the Upside Down and being stuck in there. I would love a S4 story of a character surviving inside the Upside Down for a prolonged time (however unlikely due to lack of food and water).

Edited July 6, 2019 by Smad

[Lady Calypso]

I would be surprised if Hopper was really dead. No body equals no death. However, the aftermath of what happened worked really well and I did feel for Joyce and Eleven. 

Ah man, I figured Billy would go out with redemption. It does still suck a bit. His character had potential and the show never reached it. Billy could have been interesting, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. It's a shame, since Dacre Montgomery did an amazing job with what he was given. I look forward to seeing what comes next of the actor. 

 Joyce leaving Hawkins with her family made perfect sense. After everything that's happened to her and her family, who could blame her taking them far, far away?

Overall, not a bad season. It has some great moments....and then some not so great moments for me. But overall, pretty good.

[CarpeFelis]

One loose end: how come only Erica could fit in the ductwork but later Murray fit in there with plenty of room?

[grawlix]

1 minute ago, CarpeFelis said:

One loose end: how come only Erica could fit in the ductwork but later Murray fit in there with plenty of room?

I think the duct work in the mall where Erica entered was very narrow.  In the Russian base, the duct work was a lot wider.

[mmecorday]

Quote

Ha, if they don’t the “kids” will be 30!  They looked so much older. Will towered over Joyce in the like one scene they had together at the end.  They need to not wait too long unless they want it to be “Stranger Things - Demogorgon Goes to College.”

After being emotionally drained by the finale, I appreciate the case of the giggles this gave me! 😄

[Enigma X]

I was really touched by how much Max cared for Billy even though he was not always kind to her.

[QQQQ]

Is the video store clerk (Keith?) the same actor from this AT&T commercial  (carnival worker who assembled ride himself)?

[Robert Lynch]

59 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I would be surprised if Hopper was really dead. No body equals no death. However, the aftermath of what happened worked really well and I did feel for Joyce and Eleven. 

Ah man, I figured Billy would go out with redemption. It does still suck a bit. His character had potential and the show never reached it. Billy could have been interesting, but I guess it wasn't meant to be. It's a shame, since Dacre Montgomery did an amazing job with what he was given. I look forward to seeing what comes next of the actor. 

 Joyce leaving Hawkins with her family made perfect sense. After everything that's happened to her and her family, who could blame her taking them far, far away?

Overall, not a bad season. It has some great moments....and then some not so great moments for me. But overall, pretty good.

Does Dacre still have the Power Rangers role he did a couple of years back? I heard a sequel was geenlighted, but I am not sure if there is a possibility of getting the other actors from the 2017 film. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Robert Lynch

[bettername2come]

39 minutes ago, QQQQ said:

Is the video store clerk (Keith?) the same actor from this AT&T commercial  (carnival worker who assembled ride himself)?

Yes. Also the henchperson of indeterminate gender from A Series of Unfortunate Events. I think Netflix likes him. And in other recycled Netflix actors, I can't get over the sweet kid from Fuller House being young Billy. 

[methodwriter85]

33 minutes ago, Robert Lynch said:

Does Dacre still have the Power Rangers role he did a couple of years back? I heard a sequel was geenlighted, but I am not sure if there is a possibility of getting the other actors from the 2017 film. 

From what I've heard, it's going to completely ignore the 2017 movie and it's a reboot. I enjoyed it, too.

Quote

Why not make Robin bisexual? It would have fit much better with the setup during the Season than her coming out as gay. Which as you said made no sense. It's tiring only seeing gay/lesbian in shows/movies. Bisexuals (or even asexuals) should get more time on screen. They could have had her elaborate on the story of being jealous (a fake out that in hind-sight made no sense) by having her tell Steve that she was both jealous of him and fond of him on account of the fact that she was into him but also into some of the girls throwing themselves at him. And they could still have had her reject him because she got over her high school infatuation with him.

That would have also been better. In any event, this was such an odd, weird fakeout that really kind of pissed me off.  The story just didn't need it to reach their end goal of giving Steve a friend his own age who he had no actual romantic entanglement with.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I would be surprised if Hopper was really dead. No body equals no death.

Hard to leave behind a body when you evaporate. Watch the scene again, the Russian scientists in their red suits literally disintegrate from the blast of the laser exploding, leaving nothing behind. Hopper was even closer to the center than them.

[VCRTracking]

Some people are blaming Suzie for Hopper's death, saying if she hadn't made Dustin sing he wouldn't have been killed! Hey if anything Murray Bauman should have gotten "Plank's Constant" right! Also Hopper made the same mistake with the Russian Terminator Thor made with Thanos in Avengers Infinity War. Should have gone for his head.

[ghoulina]

12 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Some people are blaming Suzie for Hopper's death, saying if she hadn't made Dustin sing he wouldn't have been killed! Hey if anything Murray Bauman should have gotten "Plank's Constant" right! Also Hopper made the same mistake with the Russian Terminator Thor made with Thanos in Avengers Infinity War. Should have gone for his head.

That's exactly what my husband said - always finish with a head shot. 

[Robert Lynch]

Is David Harbour getting tired of the series? It seems he wants to move on to films instead of shows. It's kind of like how Don Knotts moved from the Andy Griffith Show to a very brief stint in films before landing the Furley role of Three's a Company.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Robert Lynch

[backhometome]

Suzie is real! Omg her and Dusty singing the never ending story song had me dying. The look on everyone elses face was amazing.

Billy dying is no loss. Never liked him. But at least he had a purpose this season.

Hopper 😞 he has to be alive. Though he could have made it back with Joyce before she  turned the keys.

I feel like that monster could have easily outrun the car. That seemed unrealistic.

Yay! Steve coming in and smashing into Billy's car. I love how Steve always goes back for people. 

How do none of these characters have brain damage with the amount of times they get knocked around. Max getting knocked out by Billy and Mike smashing his head in the wall.

I loved the season overall but I do think Will was shafted a bit. He didn't get to do a whole lot.

Edited July 6, 2019 by backhometome

[lightbeam]

13 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Well I'm a wreck.

Unfortunately I was spoiled on Hopper's death just before watching the first episode.  I heard in weeks prior from that this season was sad and that a "major character" dies. Then before streaming the show on Thursday morning I stupidly went on Twitter and number one thing trending was "Hopper" and I went "Awwww fuck."

The way the regular media and social media spoil shows/movies infuriates me (particularly regular media). I was looking at a news app and I saw "Stranger Things: RIP..." in a headline, and I was super pissed. Some articles flat out say it in the title of the article. Basically you have to completely stay away from the internet.

(as an aside, I still haven't seen the movie "Avengers End Game" and was watching an totally unrelated youtube video on tarot and the dude in the video spoils the movie! GRRRRR...)

[MissL]

Is it awful that when I saw Joyce hugging Will at the end I got totally pulled out of the moment and mumbled “Joyce you have TWO sons are you concerned about Jonathan at ALL?”

And THEN she just stood there looking sadly at Eleven instead of going over and hugging HER. Bad form Joyce.

The lack of Will and Jonathan interacting was weird and they didn’t even look at each other when they were hiding behind a car together basically hoping not to die. and while I understand Max not wanting Billy to die because she is a good person based on what we SAW of their relationship the extreme sad emotion from her when he died didn’t seem to fit. Maybe if we ever saw kindness in the midst of his torture of her we’d get it but nothing. 

And I didn’t like the scoop troop separating from everyone almost IMMEDIATELY after reuniting with them. 

Ok. With all that being said I still do love this show and hope they don’t go so long between seasons.

[LittleIggy]

I just finished this episode. I’m a sodden mess! 😭Those scenes with Hopper’s voice-over at the end...wow. And to paraphrase Shakespeare, nothing became Billy in his life so much as his leaving of it. 

Could “the American” be Hopper?

[VCRTracking]

Another thing I thought of that might point to Hopper being alive is if El still had her powers she would've been able to find him through sensory deprevation.

[Racj82]

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

From what I've heard, it's going to completely ignore the 2017 movie and it's a reboot. I enjoyed it, too.

That would have also been better. In any event, this was such an odd, weird fakeout that really kind of pissed me off.  The story just didn't need it to reach their end goal of giving Steve a friend his own age who he had no actual romantic entanglement with.

In 2019, everything is tired. Everything is a trope. If they went straightforward with her just being the awkward girl that Steve didn't notice because he was a douche at the time, it would still be trite and trope. I have no feelings about it either way.

And I also disagree with the notion some have that it's always or almost always gay and lesbian on TV. Bisexuals are getting neglected. That is not the case from what I see. 

For me, I enjoy that we got another strong friendship instead of another pairing. Every main girl except the younger Erica had been paired off at this point. I'm not judging the show for it. People enjoy shipping and pairing people up. But, we got a awesome character and a great friendship. That's cool to me. 

Sometimes the Duffer brother's lean right into the tropes and sometimes they advert them but they get bashed for being hacks either way. Not saying that you are doing that. It just happens. I appreciate that they do both. Have fun with the tropes. 

As I was typing, the Robin/Steve angle kind of reminds me of many movies in the 80s where it probably would have been more realistic if they weren't straight like Duckie in Pretty in Pink. But, movies rarely went there in that time. In 2019, we can be a little more open and explore different subjects. 

And really, other than the I was looking at you in class bit they never played up her being into him. Steve grew into this thought as he actually got to know her which was sweet. It more people on the outside commenting and since they didn't know she was gay, it made sense. 

[Blue Plastic]

7 hours ago, Smad said:

I'm not even sure if he's the American in Russia because it seems too obvious. It also makes no sense. How did he get there? It can't be the laser because that would be stupid (since everyone else exploded from it). So the only other way would be for him to be sucked or whatever into the Upside Down world. And I'm supposed to believe he traveled across the ocean or flew a plane from America to Russia, in the Upside Down and having absolutely no reason to make this journey to begin with? There is no way I would buy the American in Russia being Hopper. Much as I would love for him to still be alive. It would be much smarter to have him be sucked into the Upside Down and being stuck in there. I would love a S4 story of a character surviving inside the Upside Down for a prolonged time (however unlikely due to lack of food and water).

It's far fetched but the Russians really seemed to want to get him (look what they did to Alexei) so I could maybe sorta if I squint buy that maybe they grabbed him right before Joyce turned the keys.  It doesn't make sense - for one, Joyce could have waited for Hopper to get to safety; for two, the Russians didn't really have time to grab him.  But whatever!  Maybe they somehow managed to grab him and instead of killing him decided to use him for hostage down the line or for some other reason.  It's a stretch I know!  Maybe I am wrong and the actor doesn't want to be on the show anymore, but I'm going with it for now!

5 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

One loose end: how come only Erica could fit in the ductwork but later Murray fit in there with plenty of room?

Yes!  Interesting, LOL.

5 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I was really touched by how much Max cared for Billy even though he was not always kind to her.

This just didn't work for me.  Max is a good person and probably wouldn't dancing in the streets over Billy's death, but I don't buy that she actually felt close to him and will miss him.

1 hour ago, MissL said:

Is it awful that when I saw Joyce hugging Will at the end I got totally pulled out of the moment and mumbled “Joyce you have TWO sons are you concerned about Jonathan at ALL?”

And THEN she just stood there looking sadly at Eleven instead of going over and hugging HER. Bad form Joyce.

The lack of Will and Jonathan interacting was weird and they didn’t even look at each other when they were hiding behind a car together basically hoping not to die. and while I understand Max not wanting Billy to die because she is a good person based on what we SAW of their relationship the extreme sad emotion from her when he died didn’t seem to fit. Maybe if we ever saw kindness in the midst of his torture of her we’d get it but nothing. 

And I didn’t like the scoop troop separating from everyone almost IMMEDIATELY after reuniting with them. 

Ok. With all that being said I still do love this show and hope they don’t go so long between seasons.

All of the above.  I will still be watching if they manage to crank out another season before the kids' 30th birthday, but these were all off to me.

Joyce's way of telling El that Hopper is dead is to just look at her over Will's shoulder?  Max just loooooved her abusive brother so much, even though he was mean to her last season and they were never shown together or even mentioned each other during all of season 3?  Weird. 

It really shouldn't have taken too much screen time to fit a short scene or even just throw in an offhand line a couple of times to have their relationships make a little more sense.  "I'm so sorry El!"  Hug her.  There, done.  I mean really.  The staring took longer than just having Joyce talk to El.  It's cliche but it works.  Why would Joyce just stare at poor El and make her have to figure out what happened herself?!

[MisterGlass]

15 hours ago, Vella said:

Also, there was just too much physical violence.

I did notice that they went from killing monsters in previous seasons to killing humans in this one.  A lot of humans, actually.  When El threw that car at those four guys I was startled. 

3 hours ago, backhometome said:

Though he could have made it back with Joyce before she  turned the keys.

When he used the rotating center section of the machine to hit the Russian, he damaged it, and it started arcing across the stairway.  He couldn't make it through without being electrocuted.

ETA: Also, I realized we didn't see the nail bat this year.

Edited July 6, 2019 by MisterGlass
Addition.

[QQQQ]

2 hours ago, Racj82 said:

As I was typing, the Robin/Steve angle kind of reminds me of many movies in the 80s where it probably would have been more realistic if they weren't straight like Duckie in Pretty in Pink.

This x100. Duckie being straight never felt right, even to my 15-year-old self when it was released. Actually, Steph set off my gaydar, too. Hmm, maybe it was the clothing 😂

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, MissL said:

Is it awful that when I saw Joyce hugging Will at the end I got totally pulled out of the moment and mumbled “Joyce you have TWO sons are you concerned about Jonathan at ALL?”

And THEN she just stood there looking sadly at Eleven instead of going over and hugging HER. Bad form Joyce.

1 hour ago, Blue Plastic said:

All of the above.  I will still be watching if they manage to crank out another season before the kids' 30th birthday, but these were all off to me.

Joyce's way of telling El that Hopper is dead is to just look at her over Will's shoulder?  Max just loooooved her abusive brother so much, even though he was mean to her last season and they were never shown together or even mentioned each other during all of season 3?  Weird. 

I think Joyce was not just dealing with grief but guilt. Also Max and Billy may not have gotten along last season but I'm guessing they did when they were both younger. That's the way with siblings. Sometimes they grow apart.

[Enigma X]

I am just projecting because we never really got to see a three-dimensional side to Billy. The way the Max and Billie relationship could have been in my mind is that Billie and Max may have had an unspoken bond because they were both abused. I am not just talking about how Billy treated Max but by how Max’s mom neglects Max. In the second season it seemed as if Max’s mom was more concerned about her husband than her daughter. (I could be wrong because the mom is not three-dimensional either).

Overall, I think Billy was a shit but understand that his and Max’s relationship may have not been black and white, and, clearly, it wasn’t.

[ganesh]

On 7/4/2019 at 2:51 PM, bettername2come said:

Did they imply Hopper is alive in a secret Russian base? I need Hopper to be alive in a secret Russian base.

I initially thought it was Murray, but he was with Joyce so that wouldn't make sense. It could be any random American but that doesn't make sense either. Though, it seemed to me that Hop had enough time to run back upstairs before the guys in the suits could have got to him.

20 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

They haven't spent quite enough effort on the plot, or why all these shadowy government figures from the US, Russia, wherever, would even be conducting these experiments or trying to break into such a miserable world.

Super weapons against the USA. It's basically every cold war movie plot. 

On 7/5/2019 at 12:10 AM, Last Time Lord said:

I think my favorite aspect of the season was how each individual storyline seemed like it very well could have been the plots to movies that would have fit right in during 1985. 

Hop fighting the Russian super goon was very Terminator too. 

It didn't look like it was too hard for any of the actors to cry at the end there in front of the UHaul. 

I also liked how the fireworks plan worked too. I hope Nancy gets to work at the paper since they're all basically dead now. 

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, Racj82 said:

As I was typing, the Robin/Steve angle kind of reminds me of many movies in the 80s where it probably would have been more realistic if they weren't straight like Duckie in Pretty in Pink. But, movies rarely went there in that time.

There was no way Duckie was straight. 

[Capricasix]

On 7/5/2019 at 8:12 PM, piperkat said:

 OK, I have to call BS on one tiny, but critical point – no one in 1985 would’ve referred to the original Star Wars as “A New Hope”.  Nope, not even pretentious video rental clerks.  

Yes, there was a limited release in the early 80s that tacked on that extra title,  but anyone who was around for the original Star Wars run in ‘77 would refer to it as “Star Wars”.  

Thank you. I just had to get that off my chest. 

Yup, I had the same thought. 

I definitely think Hopper’s in the Russian prison.

[Quilt Fairy]

18 hours ago, Vella said:

Also, there was just too much physical violence. Hopper constantly getting into fights, the number of times the kids would be flung into a wall or across a room was just too much.

Absolutely.  Steve and Hopper were getting routinely pummeled to the point that I started looking away from the screen.  And aside from a little blood and some black eyes there were no repercussions from all this violence.  Those 2 should have suffered concussions and broken ribs at a minimum. 

5 hours ago, MissL said:

And THEN she just stood there looking sadly at Eleven instead of going over and hugging HER. Bad form Joyce.

Yes.  Although we've never seen any interactions between Joyce and El, Joyce should have opened her arms to her.  Which brings me to an important question:  Why is Joyce getting custody of El?   Financially she is in the worst place of the four families to take in an extra child.  Is this something Hopper would realistically even accounted for?  He was still trying to keep El's very existence a secret.

ETA: Totally agree about Star Wars, which is what I still call the first movie.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Quilt Fairy

[dju]

As a whole I liked this season, aesthetically for me it's by far the best out of the three but I don't feel the rush to watch it all again the way I had with S2, some parts felt a little slog-ish and unnecessary, but the last episode certainly brought it all together and packed a massive gut punch.

4 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Another thing I thought of that might point to Hopper being alive is if El still had her powers she would've been able to find him through sensory deprevation.

I've seen this theory floating around and I'm obsessed with it - that she can't figure out he's alive or look for him because her powers are incapacitated because imo, she 100% would've tried looking for him even after getting confirmation from Joyce. There's no way Hopper is dead.

On that note, I would've appreciated seeing more solo El & Hopper stuff as opposed to only hearing about it and seeing it in the last episode. Him referring to her as his daughter was really touching, and it was clear from the jump that he absolutely perceives her as his daughter, but until the last episode, I thought it was a tad too ambiguous how El feels about that term and about him. I kept waiting to hear El call him 'Dad' but I can also understand why she can't or doesn't and that it actually might be a bit triggering even thinking about calling someone else 'Dad' or 'Papa'.

17 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

considering that Max/Billy didn't have any kind of scene together yet we're supposed to feel it as a major loss for her when he dies. Are we supposed to base everything from season 2 where all Billy does to Max is terrify her and abuse her? They needed to do more there in order to pay that off. Dacre and Sadie did their best to try and make it work but they just flat out did not have the backstory.

I completely agree with this, it didn't land at all for me because I was remembering her fear of him from S2, not that she was simply nervous or apprehensive but actually afraid of him and as a viewer being really distressed by that. Seeing some sort of indication or a scene between them that suggested his care or interest of her wellbeing prior to the death scene in the finale would've helped.

[Robert Lynch]

Speaking of 80s mall culture, this New York mall documentary from '83 captures that aesthetic feel. One thing about the Duffer brothers is that they did their homework on 80s mall culture. Kind of neat, right? You probably waiting to se the gang from Stranger Things to come by. Above all things, watching this documentary brings a tear to my eye. 

[Blue Plastic]

6 minutes ago, dju said:

I completely agree with this, it didn't land at all for me because I was remembering her fear of him from S2, not that she was simply nervous or apprehensive but actually afraid of him and as a viewer being really distressed by that. Seeing some sort of indication or a scene between them that suggested his care or interest of her wellbeing prior to the death scene in the finale would've helped.

Yes.  If there had ever been any scene that indicated he did treat her well sometimes even if he was also abusive, I could buy that Max would be conflicted and confused about their relationship and maybe miss the nice times they had.  But since we only ever saw that she was scared of him and in season 3 was never shown with him, I think they hoped we'd forget season 2 or something.

Good point that perhaps when they were younger they had a good relationship, but frankly if I were Billy I wouldn't have been over the moon at getting an "instant" younger sister and new stepmother.  Plus considering what he grew up to become, it's hard for me personally to imagine they were close as younger children and that's what Max remembers.

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

Super weapons against the USA. It's basically every cold war movie plot.

Still not sure how they would use that against the US unless they plan to zap some or all of the population into the Upside Down.

[Quilt Fairy]

14 minutes ago, Blue Plastic said:

Good point that perhaps when they were younger they had a good relationship, but frankly if I were Billy I wouldn't have been over the moon at getting an "instant" younger sister and new stepmother.  Plus considering what he grew up to become, it's hard for me personally to imagine they were close as younger children and that's what Max remembers.

Since Max and Billy's parents were absent this season, it's easy to forget that Billy's father was extremely abusive.  Seeing at how he treated Billy, it's no stretch to imagine that he was abusive to Max as well.  

[LittleIggy]

Re: the physical pummeling mentioned by others, I just want to add that I think Jonathan would have had a skull fracture after he was hammered with that heavy metal lab stool. And Hopper doing those head to head bashes...🥴

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

Still not sure how they would use that against the US unless they plan to zap some or all of the population into the Upside Down.

Open the gate, bring out the demigorgon to kill all the capitalists. It's not necessarily a plan that works but that's the plot of those movies. Or massively closeted pilots, but this was 1985 and Top Gun didn't come out yet. 

I thought it was interesting that Will was admonished for not liking girls, but it was in the context of not growing up as fast as the others. I'm wondering if they're going to make more of that. 

[sunshine23]

I think my favorite part of the season was watching Joyce and Hopper's interactions. Their thinly veiled attraction to each other made them act like immature teenagers more than those they are responsible for. My least favorite part was thinking Hopper died.

Overall, loved the season for many of the reasons already posted.

[TwoBitUsherette]

I was just listening to a podcast that made me realize something - do we know for sure whether or not Nancy and Jonathan have graduated?

I've always been under the impression that they (or at least Nancy) were a grade behind Steve in school. In 2x01 he even mentions staying behind a year to be with her.

Yet a lot of the discussion on season three makes it sound like Nancy and Jonathan have graduated since they were interning at the paper. I just assumed that was a summer gig, and they'd be back in school come September. Plus, if they were both out of high school then I don't think the Byers moving away would have been nearly as big of a deal to them.

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, dju said:

I completely agree with this, it didn't land at all for me because I was remembering her fear of him from S2, not that she was simply nervous or apprehensive but actually afraid of him and as a viewer being really distressed by that. Seeing some sort of indication or a scene between them that suggested his care or interest of her wellbeing prior to the death scene in the finale would've helped.

2 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Since Max and Billy's parents were absent this season, it's easy to forget that Billy's father was extremely abusive.  Seeing at how he treated Billy, it's no stretch to imagine that he was abusive to Max as well.  

I don't know if it's that severe, but I don't picture him being warm and easygoing with her either. My feeling is Max knows how much Billy's dad abuses him and he takes it out on other people. After he agreed to leave her and her friends alone last season, she could probably see that more clearly without resenting his own treatment of her.

[Giselle]

After loving seasons one and two, this season was in the toilet and jumped the shark but I was going to see it through until the singing occurred.

They were too busy adding in nostalgic cross promotions to have a storyline or a decent script. 

I like musicals but I hate it when I am invested in a show of a particular genre and the producers and writers switch it up and have to include a musical number to to copy every other sorry assed show who also thought it would be a good thing. It is gotten old and tedious. I turn the channel.

The singing took me right out of the story I didn't care about the ending. I walked away, I don't know what happened, I don't want to know nor do I  care. 

This will be getting a thumbs down and I'll be taking it off my netflix list.

You lost a viewer for this show Netflix

[ruby24]

I don't understand why Joyce gets custody of El and she has to move away with them. She's not close to Joyce or Will. Mike's family wouldn't take her in? 

[Female83]

53 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I don't understand why Joyce gets custody of El and she has to move away with them. She's not close to Joyce or Will. Mike's family wouldn't take her in? 

Here are some possible explanations:

1. Maybe between the end of season 2 and the start of season 3 Hopper asked Joyce to take in El if something happened to him.  El wasn't close to the Byers but Hopper was.

2. El and Will needed a new start after what they went through and Joyce decided to take in El

3. With Mike and El dating it would be odd had the Wheelers adopted El and she ended up being Mike's adoptive sister 

[Sakura12]

It makes complete sense to me that Joyce would take El in. She's the only parent that knows El's story about where she came from. The other parents don't know anything their kids have done or that El has powers. Did Mike's mom even know he was dating El? It seems like she wasn't allowed to go out much. She was never in the basement until Will said the mindflayer was back. 

El can talk to Joyce about everything that happened and about Hopper. She wouldn't be able to that with if any other parent took her in. And Hopper could've made arrangements that if anything happened to him Joyce would get custody. Again because she knows everything. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Sakura12

[Robert Lynch]

Where do you think Joyce will be going next? New York?

[SeanC]

10 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Which brings me to an important question:  Why is Joyce getting custody of El?   Financially she is in the worst place of the four families to take in an extra child.  Is this something Hopper would realistically even accounted for?  He was still trying to keep El's very existence a secret.

Joyce is the only parent who is in the know about Eleven, so she’s the only realistic option.  Trying to put her with any other family would invite a lot of questions. 

[VCRTracking]

This could have been a legit series finale if they didn't have the endtag in Russia. Hopper's dead, El's powers are gone and she and the Bylers move away from Hawkins. I guess that's true of the previous season finales. Everything seemingly resolved and tied up except for the end tag.

[Quilt Fairy]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Joyce is the only parent who is in the know about Eleven, so she’s the only realistic option.  Trying to put her with any other family would invite a lot of questions. 

I understand that Joyce is the realistic option, but this is 1985, not 1885.  You can't just say "We have an extra bed, you can sleep there."  There are legal custody considerations. Unless Joyce was savvy enough to talk to Dr Paul Reiser (who just happened to be in town) and get it taken care of.