S38.E14: I See the Million Dollars

[peachmangosteen]

The fact that there aren't even 2 pages of discussion the morning after the finale really does say it all.

I mean, yay Rick didn't win! But that was really the only good thing that happened lol.

I can not even imagine how fucking frustrated Victoria must feel. To play a great game for like 35 days and then get supremely fucked because the third person voted off came back and was handed immunity. Damn!

I feel bad for Lauren, Gavin, and Julie too, but they made some glaring mistakes at the end. 

I think this had to be the smuggest jury I've ever witnessed. A bitter jury I enjoy, one where nearly every person is up on their high horse thinking they're hot shit and the people who outplayed them are beneath them is a bit too much for me to handle.

Also, they really tried to tell me they were undecided. Please. Miss me with that bullshit.

Chris played fairly well for, what, the 3 days he had, but he was handed immunity for the first round so. I thought he was kind of an asshole at the end as well. He sure is pretty though. On the island, at least. Not so much at the reunion. Shoulda kept the beard.

[Artymouse]

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Chris survived how many days of Reem on EoE? 

Yeah, he deserves $1 million just for that!

[BarneySays]

And the winner of Non-Survivor is...Chris.  At least we know why there was no winner’s edit; there was no winner.

as for chris’s Allegedly ballsy move to make fire, no.  I am sure he watched devens practice and knew he could beat him.  It was a calculated move.  If he thought he might lose, he would have tried another tactic.  It’s as simple as that.  

This appears to be the most petty jury since the horrible one that handed the second win to Sandra.  The losers who go on about how important survivor is to them voted for the guy who laidabout for 30 days to validate themselves.  There is no rational way to justify his winning.  

I stopped watching for several years when it got bad before.  This was even worse:  the constant preening and cooing about “that game” and how important is already too much to bear, but Boston rob for the 456th time seals the deal for me.  RIP

[BarneySays]

7 hours ago, eskimo said:

Is this how it all ends? 

Yes, not with a bang, but a whimper.

[Nashville]

2 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

Yes, not with a bang, but a whimper.

Well, they were On The Beach the entire time.... 🤣🤣🤣

[RedbirdNelly]

I've not read all responses but my 2 cents

1. this season was so dull--proven by the fact that it actually got more interesting to me when Chris came back because it shook things up and added a new dimension to it

2. that being said, EOE should not have happened and it messes with the game for Chris to win. If they keep this horrible twist there would be some wisdom behind getting yourself voted out early-ish as a strategy--granted one that puts a ton of trust in winning your way back which you could easily lose

3. given that EOE did exist, however, I was fine with Chris winning in that (a) Gavin and Julie were boring; Gavin played something of a game but very quiet and just felt a bit of outlast; and (b) Chris did play the best game he could with the time he had.

4. Kelly Wentworth--my main thought during the jury mess was "this is why no one likes you." Yeah, the jury should ask questions but contestants have asked each other questions/spoken to each other before, so you can shut down the "this offends me bit."

5. Julie had no chance but listing her freak out tribal where Julia went home as her big move just sealed that coffin. Seriously? your big move was losing it so much everyone ended up voting out Julia? cite something else.

[RedbirdNelly]

one more thought--EOE should be dropped but the concept would at least be better if they found a way to make it harder to stick it out. Not starving people but maybe competitions or at least temptations to quit. Or some challenging task you have to complete to stay (to make it different from the redemption island things where you have to beat your fellow voted out person every so many days). It could be some classic survivor stuff--eat a bunch of gross stuff if you want to stay. . . because I would choose sail over anything involving spiders. Just sit there is what it ended up amounting to and it got easier the more people showed up. Reem at least dealt with isolation and I can see wanting to raise the sail sitting there alone and hungry.

[Eolivet]

8 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

At least we know why there was no winner’s edit; there was no winner.

I feel the need to share this song parody from the Rob Has a Podcast "Wandoff" several weeks ago, which sums up the season perfectly, to me:

[MKL122788]

Okay, so first a few random thoughts on the winner...

Chris had way too many advantages coming back into the game:

1. He knew that the people who would beat him at the end were Victoria, Devens, and then Lauren if she used her idol to make a big move.

2. He got a free idol for F5. That is way too late in the game to get idols. Hell, that is way too late in the game to be able to play idols if you don't get a guaranteed vote out at F4.

3. He didn't have to create any ill will with the people being voted out. All he had to do was bond with those people.

4. Because they were all in the same situation, a vote for him was essentially a vote for themselves, because if the challenge went differently, it could've been them sitting there. Votes that validate your own personal experiences with the game always feel a bit sour.

Anyway, I don't really think he deserved it, but he did play those three days beautifully. He knew Devens wasn't going home in F6. So he targets Victoria and uses his inside knowledge to sway Lauren. Devens wins immunity at F5, so he targets Lauren over Julie because Julie was goat status. Then, he beats Devens at the F4 fire making challenge. Credit to him for playing 3 good days of Survivor.

Other thoughts:

1. Way. Too. Many. Idols. In particular, I want them to go back to the rule they used to have where if there were any idols still in play, they didn't hide more. For me, Lauren having her idol should keep them from hiding more and more for Rick.

2. If they are going to have the fire making challenge at F4, they really need to have idols stop being played at either F7 or F6. There needs to be at least one idol free tribal council which lacks the utter ridiculousness we have seen. They should've learned this by now.

3. Victoria was right last week. They needed to keep Aurora and get rid of Julie. A solid 4 would've squashed Chris and still had a decent shot against Devens. Victoria has been right basically every time this season. It is too bad that she got mega screwed by Chris knowing she was a FTC threat and the constant idol seeking by Devens. It is clear that if she got to the end with Lauren and Gavin that she was going to win.

4. Devens also kinda got screwed. Someone good at challenges was brought back. Good at fire making, too. He played Lauren and Julie like a fiddle with those fakes. Not exactly hard, but at least humorous.

5. On returning players in general...I can handle one coming back in around the merge and getting to play so long as the rest do not get any decision making power. I cannot handle that someone gets to return to the game that late with having had numerous opportunities to bond with people outside the game and then those same people get to be on the jury. That is unacceptable from a design perspective.

Looking forward:

1. I don't really like the theme for this next season, but it has to be better than what happened this season.

2. Sandra better be dropping some amazing one liners or I will be unhappy.

3. Do Sandra and Rob get to decide if they like someone and then get to feed others false information to help that person? That seems sketchy, though it would make for some great humor.

4. I do not look forward to the day Devens returns.

5. If there was never another season where people voted out got to return, I would be extremely satisfied. I hope the producers at least learned from what happened this season.

Edited May 16, 2019 by MKL122788

[laurakaye]

9 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I will watch Survivor until the day I die or it's canceled (whichever comes first), but this is going into one of the bottom seasons for me. Maybe not the worst (Samoa was my least favorite ever), but it's down there.

Same for me, except substitute Thailand for Samoa.

Come on, Survivor.  Be great again.  Stop hiding 125 idols and then having the cameraman hang out by the specific tree where the idol is hidden so the Golden Player can find it (at least that's how it happened in my head).  What a nonsensical season that I won't ever re-watch.

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I hate the fire challenge.  I hate that someone can outwit, outlast and outplay for 38 days and then watch his game go up in smoke over something as random as the wind.

As Cook Islands is my favorite season, I have to comment on this...when Becky and Sundra went up against each other making fire to get to the Final 3, the wind was blowing their sticks and ashes all over the place.  When they ran out of flint, Probst gave them matches and then smarmily sat there while neither woman could get her fire started - but these two guys get to go up where it's nice and sheltered from the wind.  Phooey on that.  Make that fire in the wind, rain or snow if that's the way to get to Final 3.  Sending them up to the voting booth where not everyone could watch is complete BS.

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

Without a doubt Rick will be back to play again.

Please no.  I've also had more than enough of Joey Amazing and His Flowing Locks of Wonder.  A whole two minutes wasted on Joe's hair.  Just no.

Reem's haircut looked cool, though.

That's all I got.  On to season 39...........

Edited May 16, 2019 by laurakaye

[Cutty]

3 hours ago, Ellee said:

Think I feel bad for Victoria the most in all of this.  

I did for a minute but then she voted for Chris over Gavin, which still makes zero sense to me. Maybe the biggest what in the actual fuck moment of the night. Well second after the Boston Rob and Sandra statues. 

[lostmydamnmind]

I enjoyed Rick's showboating the entire game. He played hard and used every advantage that he could find/was given to him. He also created enough confusion with the others to get them to make some pretty boneheaded moves, in retrospect.

I also came to like Chris, in the hour or so I saw him on the show last night. I have no recollection of him before last night, other than a vague idea that he was the hot guy on loser island.

Gavin, Julie, and Victoria left little to no impression on me. I was impressed that Lauren managed to hang onto her idol until the last possible moment.

As much as I dislike the idea of someone from loser island returning at the last minute, it did introduce an interesting dynamic in re jury management at final tribal. Still, I hate the idea that someone that was essentially out of the game for 30 something days was able to return at the last minute, and was handed an advantage, over the others who managed to not get voted out at all.

[AZChristian]

I was hoping that Chris would get back into the game as soon as he was voted out . . . but after Devens got back in, I started to really enjoy the way he was playing.  He never gave up.  

So I'd have been happy with either of them winning.  Although as soon as I read in the "Live" thread that Devens was gone, we opted to continue bingeing "The Office" on Netflix.

[slaterain]

Chris was definitely the winner of the three although I wanted Julie to at least get one vote. He played the game he was given but I hated that he basically had only 10 days of actual game play. The fact that he had all the time with the jury to forge bonds created such an unfair advantage. I also think that Gavin put his foot in his mouth when he tried to convince the jurors that he deserved it for not ever being on EOE. I think he should have focused more on never receiving a vote while being a part of many blindsides. 

I hate that we were down to two men and 5-6 women and then the finale was two men and only one woman. I really thought we had a chance to get a finale of all women. Unfortunately Lauren got played and if she had simply voted for Chris and used her idol the next day she would have likely been in the final three. She did admit that she got played so I was a bit surprised she voted for Gavin and not Chris. 

I didn't completely hate the idea of EOE but they definitely need to make changes. They should have restarted it after Devins made it back in. Or done it earlier to make it better match up with when they typically switch to solo play/start creating the jury. Then if they want to do a second round only use those whose torches were snuffed going forward and then let them back in sooner - the finale episode was way too little. I also agree that EOE should have had more mini challenges or actual incentives to raise the flag. 

They also need to cool it with the idols. I wish they would hide one at each camp at the start and that is that. If you use it in the beginning then there are no replacements. Or do more of hiding it in the challenges as I really liked that new twist when it started. I found it interesting that no one ever looked for clues during the rewards - maybe because they were already found? 

[Pondlass1]

13 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Come on, Survivor.  Be great again.  Stop hiding 125 idols and then having the cameraman hang out by the specific tree where the idol is hidden so the Golden Player can find it (at least that's how it happened in my head).  What a nonsensical season that I won't ever re-watch.

This is why Survivor has lost me.  Too many idols.  Too much production manipulation.  You can almost figure who'll be voted out because they get the biggest edit during the episode.  

And when two contestants go off down the beach for a supposed 'secret' discussion a whole camera crew must follow them judging by the various close up and variety of camera angels.

It's too edited and formulaic now.  Let's get back to basics again ....and get rid of those annoying idols for a season.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I do find it a bit humerous that there are people complaining/not liking a Chris win because he came back from EoE who wanted Rick to win. Would that be because Rick came back from EoE earlier so we got a chance to watch him play? Because they were both voted out and they both returned to the game.

Good point, @ProfCrash!  I think some people straight up forgot!

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Who cares? They were both voted out. And then they won their way back in. And then they played a decent game with the time that they had.

I totally agree with you!

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Special K said:

It's not his fault that EoE existed ("The concept's not on trial," thank you Wardog). 

Okay, 😂 that was a pretty good catchphrase.  I'll have to remember that.  He's still my favourite player this season!  (ducks all of the tomatoes)  

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

 I like the variation of the six different stations challenge being played over water (it was beautiful!). 

My depressing thought was if I ever made it on this show, which is already a big IF, then I wouldn't be able to do this challenge.  I found it kind of terrifying.  There's no way I wouldn't fall into the ocean, and also I can't really swim.  

[blackwing]

I am thrilled that Chris won.  I know that many people think it is unfair that someone can sit on the Edge for nearly 30 days, swoop back in, and then win, but he didn't make the rules, so I don't think he can be blamed.  There are little tweaks to each season to keep the game fresh.  Like last season when Dan got voted out by the Idol Nullifier... nobody had ever seen or heard of that before.  Was it unfair?  Perhaps.  But that was within the new rules of the game.

After he returned, I thought Chris played amazingly well.  He had three big moves: 1) getting Rick to trust him and want to go to final four with him with the half idol, 2) bamboozling Lauren into playing her idol for him, and 3) sacrificing his immunity so he could make fire and eliminate his ally Rick.  In any other season, these moves alone would likely be considered to be masterful.  

Gavin acted like a whiny baby when he was sitting there and just kept saying "it's not fair, you weren't even in the game the whole time".

I'd be curious to hear why Rick voted for Gavin.  Was it because he was bitter that Chris didn't take him to the end and allow him to win?  Given how Rick has behaved this season, that's probably the reason.

I'd be curious to hear why Lauren, Aurora and Kelley voted for Gavin.  Seems like this was purely out of spite against Chris, along the lines of the "it's not fair" spouted by Gavin.  Particularly curious from Kelley, since she would have been in the same position if she had been the returnee.

8 hours ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I'm sorry Julie didn't get one vote. But that's kind of typical when the final 3 is two men and one woman. I saw a commercial for Etsy before the winners were announced and I wondered if that was a sign for Julie. 

The fact that she didn't get one vote has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she is a woman.  It's the fact that she said her big strategy was "I was emotional".  So those weepy mental breakdowns were supposed to be a strategy?  To do what?  To get people to want to protect her and take her to the end?  That's the very definition of a goat.  I want to point out that it was a woman, Julia, who was the one that openly laughed about this so-called strategy.  Also, there were more women on the jury than men, and none of the women chose to vote for Julie.  So I don't think it's fair to allege that sexism resulted in Julie's goose egg.  It's the fact that she did nothing in the game to merit any votes.

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I hate the fire challenge.  I hate that someone can outwit, outlast and outplay for 38 days and then watch his game go up in smoke over something as random as the wind.

I hate the firemaking challenge as well, and I still think it was specifically designed to keep Ben the Marine in the game (no matter how many times it has been denied), and now they have to keep it going.  However, in this case, without the firemaking challenge, Rick would have just gone home immediately.

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I am thrilled that Rick lost. He was happy and gleeful only when he was in a power position or screwing with people. When he lost or was on the bottom he was a petulant wuss. And he was a hypocrite. Ron and Julie were big meanies because Ron gave Rick a fake idol and Julie played along but it is totally ok to make fake idols and giggle when they play them.

I get that it is game play and I don't have a problem with it but Rick is like your typical early elementary school age kid. It's not fair when you do something that hurts me but it is ok when I do it to you because I am being clever.

Overall, I think fake idol play is dangerous. You hope that it lulls your opponent into a false sense of security but you had better own up to using it for strategic purposes and not that you are just trying to make someone look like a fool. After Rick's display to Ron and Julie "What, did you want me to look like an idiot to my child?" and then play the real thing he probably shouldn't have been grinning like a mad man when Julie and Lauren played their fake idols.

Yes, exactly.  Very hypocritical, and your description of him is spot on.

2 minutes ago, MKL122788 said:

Okay, so first a few random thoughts on the winner...

Chris had way too many advantages coming back into the game:

1. He knew that the people who would beat him at the end were Victoria, Devens, and then Lauren if she used her idol to make a big move.

2. He got a free idol for F5. That is way too late in the game to get idols. Hell, that is way too late in the game to be able to play idols if you don't get a guaranteed vote out at F4.

It definitely wasn't a free idol... it was obvious that we was going to get voted right back out if he didn't survive that night's vote.  It was a tough road for him to survive.  1) He had to get someone (Lauren) to play her idol for him.  It's true that he wouldn't have known about Lauren's idol without Kelly blabbing, but still.  He was already at a disadvantage of having the stigma of being a late returnee, and was in very real danger of getting immediately voted right out.  2) He had to give the half of the idol to someone he could trust.  He made sure to reconnect with Rick even though he knew Rick was the biggest threat to win.  Then he had to get Rick to give him the half back.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Special K said:

Also:  he is beautiful.

(Re: Chris)

He is soooooooooooo beautiful.

How did Rick make the fake idols?  From what?  Where did he get the materials?  Did he hide 2 fake idols and 1 fake clue?  

Edited May 16, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[Cornhusker12]

I don't blame Chris for the gimmick or for winning, if anything it says a lot about Gavin and Julie that they could LOSE to a guy who wasn't a part of any gameplay for a month. However, I 100% blame the show for having a gimmick that they didn't even seem to understand, and editors who didn't know how to use it to tell a story.

We were told during the finale that Devens and Chris had this brotherhood and came to respect each other for life during their time at EoE and could never betray each other after that bonding experience. Why in the world did they just sit on that footage instead of showing it to us? Can you imagine how easily we all could've been manipulated into thinking "holy sh*t their plan they hatched on EoE from episode 5 or whatever could actually happen! that was so awesome seeing them bury the hatchet and now against all odds they really might end up in the final 4 together??"

Just a bizarre failure of a season, I just can't believe we spent all that time watching things that happened in the Actual Game when the things that ended up mattering in the end were happening unseen on EoE. I would've traded every bit of the saccharine talking heads about finding inner strength and reading letters to themselves for some actual footage of what the hell was going on there the entire time. What were they doing to pass the time other than staring off into the sea? Who was sharing information or hyping up their former alliance members? So weird to know now that we literally weren't shown a huge number of the most consequential moments of the game.

Anyway, the gimmick was dumb and they should have 10000% had a better grasp of how it would work and given people on EoE things to do to keep it interesting, but even without that they still botched the season by not showing us nearly enough of the conversations that apparently were happening while they were all lounging around together.

[Special K]

3 minutes ago, huskerj12 said:

I don't blame Chris for the gimmick or for winning, if anything it says a lot about Gavin and Julie that they could LOSE to a guy who wasn't a part of any gameplay for a month. However, I 100% blame the show for having a gimmick that they didn't even seem to understand, and editors who didn't know how to use it to tell a story.

You summed it up perfectly.  +1000

[Paws]

Survivor has to never ever again let players return after being voted out. redemption island sucked, extinction sucks. Even in top chef they did a “voted off player gets to come back” thing and it was unsatisfying too. Just stop. It’s not fair to the audience or the eventual winner.

[Nashville]

Okay, first off: I do not fault Chris his win, or asterisk it even.  Chris played within the boundaries of the rule set he (and everybody else) were given this season, and he won - plain and simple as that.

Now, that being said - I heartily disliked this season because its inaugural introduction of EoE was inherently flawed on multiple points:

1. The attempt to drum up some kind of Big Decision Drama on the part of each evictee was already played out when Keith* came to the EoE Crossroads.  Of course every player is going to choose the Return option, for the simple reason they have absolutely no idea what they’re choosing - other than it still gets them a shot at the million bucks, that is.
2. EoE was hyped throughout the season as a place of isolation, loneliness, despair, and a hard scratch for existence - Survivor’s Island of Misfit Toys, if you will - but while it may have started out that way, that’s not how it ended up.  Around/about the Julia or David eviction, there was a very specific shift in the season’s dynamic; more than half the season’s participants were now on EoE, which meant we were suddenly back in the position of having two tribes, Vata and Sail Island.  Big differences between the two, though, in that (a) the isolation and loneliness formerly on EoE will now increasingly shift to Vata, and (b) the Sail Island group has unfettered access to the people who will choose the season’s winner - basically, Production-sanctioned access to 24/7 jury tampering.  In effect, Vata slowly morphs into EoE - and its inhabitants’ reward for playing a successful “classic” Survivor game is increased segregation and ostracism (more in a sec), while the classic Survivor failures are rewarded with lessened workload (MUCH fewer comps) and increased Jury access.
3. Another side-effect of this shift in dynamic: the successful Classic Survivor player is now socially penalized for their success, while the unsuccessful Classic Survivor player/evictee is rewarded for their failure.  We saw this ostracism born of segregation in both Gavin’s “out of the game” gaffe at FTC and Warthog’s (and the rest of the Jury’s) immediate negative response.  Gavin can (or should, anyway) be forgiven his faux pas, because he was one of only two players this entire season (himself and Julie) who never set foot on Sail Island - and why?  Because they never got voted off! - but the Jury’s contrarian response was to chastise Gavin for what they perceived as his denigration of the EoE gameplay he never had the opportunity to see.  In effect, Gavin got penalized for never losing - and that’s some fucked-up shit right there.  😞 
4. In terms of giving We the Viewers a complete holistic view of the gameplay in progress, the EoE optics sucked mightily.  After David’s eviction more than half the players (and therefore half the gaming strategy, presumably) were going on at  EoE - but what did we get?  Long shots of gelatin-teared eyes staring soulfully out to sea, and “Dear Me: you do really suck that bad at this game, but you shouldn’t feel like it” letters.  Fuck THAT shit in the ass.  Half the game went by without TPTB showing us any of it, and boy howdy I am PISSED.

That'll do for now.

* Hey, y’all remember Keith?  Keith was at the Finale, too!  HI KEITH!!!  😛

Edited May 17, 2019 by Nashville
Expansion, and correcting fucking autocorrect

[Steph Sometimes]

35 minutes ago, blackwing said:

The fact that she didn't get one vote has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she is a woman.  It's the fact that she said her big strategy was "I was emotional".  So those weepy mental breakdowns were supposed to be a strategy?  To do what?  To get people to want to protect her and take her to the end?  That's the very definition of a goat.  I want to point out that it was a woman, Julia, who was the one that openly laughed about this so-called strategy.  Also, there were more women on the jury than men, and none of the women chose to vote for Julie.  So I don't think it's fair to allege that sexism resulted in Julie's goose egg.  It's the fact that she did nothing in the game to merit any votes.

I wasn't clear with my point (it was late and I was mad). I didn't mean to say it was sexist or to give Julie more credit for her game than she deserved. My point was the last three seasons have had two guys and one woman in the final 3 and the woman has received no votes so I meant more that I was ready for a break in the pattern.
 

Here's hoping next season has some strategic strong women who make it in the end.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Steph Sometimes

[himela]

Lol when the episode started I could not yet tell who between ERic and Chris was Chris. And then he goes and win. Michelle Fitzerald, you are not the most useless winner of Survivor anymore!

Chris' journey to the win: I got voted out day 8, went camping for 28 days and then came back and won. I don't even know what happened IN THE GAME I WON during those 28 days, I had to watch the episodes in order to find out!

Next season is Rob and Sandra? I will seriously pass after watching 38 seasons straight (most of them twice). I can't even listen to Rob's voice AT ALL.

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I do find it a bit humerous that there are people complaining/not liking a Chris win because he came back from EoE who wanted Rick to win. Would that be because Rick came back from EoE earlier so we got a chance to watch him play?

Yes, that's it exactly.  Rick got back in the game, after being voted out fairly randomly, early  enough so that we had a chance to see him scramble and play very hard week after week.  Chris, who was voted out for making a major mistake and blabbing information, came back very late with an idol and a bunch of insider information, and only had to really strategize and scramble for one tribal.

[blackwing]

4 minutes ago, Steph Sometimes said:

I wasn't clear with my point (it was late and I was mad). I didn't mean to say it was sexist or to give Julie more credit for her game than she deserved. My point was the last three seasons have had two guys and one woman in the final 3 and the woman has received no votes so I meant more that it's becoming a pattern.

That may be true, but those women in the last two seasons were Angelina, considered a joke by most of her castmates all season, and Laurel, who very clearly was the third wheel in the alliance with Wendell and Dom.  Prior to those seasons, there were seasons with one woman and two men in the final where the woman won:  Sarah the Cop over Brad Culpepper and Troyzan;  Sophie Clark; Natalie White.  There have also been seasons with a three woman final.

Survivor juries are never kind to the players who are perceived to have done absolutely nothing but ride coattails, whether that person is a man or a woman.  It was no different here.

[Steph Sometimes]

1 minute ago, blackwing said:

That may be true, but those women in the last two seasons were Angelina, considered a joke by most of her castmates all season, and Laurel, who very clearly was the third wheel in the alliance with Wendell and Dom.  Prior to those seasons, there were seasons with one woman and two men in the final where the woman won:  Sarah the Cop over Brad Culpepper and Troyzan;  Sophie Clark; Natalie White.  There have also been seasons with a three woman final.

Survivor juries are never kind to the players who are perceived to have done absolutely nothing but ride coattails, whether that person is a man or a woman.  It was no different here.

Agreed. And I wouldn't want people to vote for someone just because she's a woman.

I'm just saying I'm ready for strategic, strong women to get to the end. It feels like it's been a while.

[gesundheit]

18 minutes ago, himela said:

Lol when the episode started I could not yet tell who between ERic and Chris was Chris. And then he goes and win. Michelle Fitzerald, you are not the most useless winner of Survivor anymore!

Chris' journey to the win: I got voted out day 8, went camping for 28 days and then came back and won. I don't even know what happened IN THE GAME I WON during those 28 days, I had to watch the episodes in order to find out!

Next season is Rob and Sandra? I will seriously pass after watching 38 seasons straight (most of them twice). I can't even listen to Rob's voice AT ALL.

Yep, I thought Eric and Chris were the same guy. And yep, next season looks awful. Silly concept, and Rob (who is terrible) and Sandra (who is fine but I don't need to see on a high horse either) and Survivor Mount Rushmore? Yikes.

Probably a wildly unpopular opinion, but I have no problem with the general idea of seasons where players get a second chance after being voted out. However, I think it should be cut off at the halfway point or the merge (sorry, it's not okay that Chris spend a month bonding with these people and didn't have to manage any of their feelings of betrayal -- I think literally the only jury member he helped vote out was Reem), and I don't think the players should ever know about it. It was cool when they all came back to compete for the return the first time, everyone was shocked. Nobody who'd left the game knew what was coming. But after that, every single evictee knew they had a chance to return. Not a fan of that.

Anyway, based on the reality of who the final 3 were and the horrible FTC arguments Gavin and Julie made for themselves, I'm not shocked. But even if Gavin and Julie had given great arguments, I think the result would have been the same because of all the points above.

[ProfCrash]

9 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Yes, that's it exactly.  Rick got back in the game, after being voted out fairly randomly, early  enough so that we had a chance to see him scramble and play very hard week after week.  Chris, who was voted out for making a major mistake and blabbing information, came back very late with an idol and a bunch of insider information, and only had to really strategize and scramble for one tribal.

Rick might not have been voted out if he had worked with Chris and voted out Kelly. Rick and David were fine with switching from voting for Kelly to Chris on that vote. All Rick and David had to do was go to Chris and say "Dan told Kelly that you were targeting her. Kelly, Dan, and Lauren are voting for you. We can pull in Wendy and vote out Kelly. Keep your mouth shut."

Then Kelly goes home and Rick and David have a solid three person alliance with Chris because they kept Chris in the game and showed Chris that he needs to be quiet about who they were going to vote out.

And then, if the challenges play out the same way and the tribe split plays out the same way, Rick is at a tribal with Chris and David and choose to vote out Dan or Lauren.

So yeah, Chris mucked up that vote but so did Rick and David. They could have turned that vote around very easily and went the easy lazy way. They saved Kelly, who they knew was in a tight three with Lauren and Dan and it bit Rick in the ass.

So yeah, it is the same damn thing. They both made mistakes in the game. They were voted out for those mistakes. They made it back into the game. Chris won.

Rah

7 minutes ago, blackwing said:

That may be true, but those women in the last two seasons were Angelina, considered a joke by most of her castmates all season, and Laurel, who very clearly was the third wheel in the alliance with Wendell and Dom.  Prior to those seasons, there were seasons with one woman and two men in the final where the woman won:  Sarah the Cop over Brad Culpepper and Troyzan;  Sophie Clark; Natalie White.  There have also been seasons with a three woman final.

Survivor juries are never kind to the players who are perceived to have done absolutely nothing but ride coattails, whether that person is a man or a woman.  It was no different here.

Angelina and Julie were both awful at the game. Angelina thought she was this great manipulator and she wasn't. Her game play was a joke in the game and on TV. The only person who thought Angelina played a good game was Angelina and Probst.

Julie was awful at the game. She fell apart when she finally had to play the game. She lost it when Erick was voted out. She lost it at Tribal on a couple of occasions. I don't care if she is crying, I care that she totally lost her head and could not play rationally.

Kind of like Rick lost it when he had a chance to work with Manu after he got back in the game and didn't because he had been voted out. And like Rick lost it whenever he lost a challenge and didn't have an idol. Rick was better at recovering from his petulant melt downs then Julie did and was far better at Tribal then Julie was.

A man who lost his shit the way Julie did would be ridiculed. Angelina was as self aware as Coach was. Neither one of them understood that people were not falling for their crap and neither one of them understood that they were a goat.

TO be frank, neither Angelina or Julie deserved a vote. They played awfully. I do feel bad for the Dawn's and Lisa's of the world who I thought played good games and had made some good moves but were screwed over because people were upset that someone they saw as a Mom had stabbed them in the back.

[Artymouse]

I think Chris is likable, and he obviously has a knack for using sales techniques on the other players. But thinking back to the first episode after he was voted off, the other tribe members were utterly shocked that he was voted off. I remember Probst saying he'd never seen a reaction like that.

So, taking that into consideration, it's not that surprising that he got most of the jury to vote for him. He had their respect before they ever knew him as anything other than a guy from an opposing tribe, then they got to know him on EoE. Plus, you feed a bunch of starving people on a deserted island something besides rice, they'll have warm and fuzzy feelings toward you. 

Yeah, if Devens had made final three, he probably would've won, but given that the other two were Gavin and Julie, it made perfect sense to give the prize to Chris. And like Wardog said, the concept wasn't on trial. 

Who can blame Chris for doing everything he could do to try and win, once he got back into the game? It's not his fault that the concept was a dud. 

[BeatLA24]

12 hours ago, driver18 said:

I guess I'm majorly in the minority, but I had no problem with Edge of Extinction. I think it was pretty cool actually. I think it shows just how much Survivor differs from other "game shows." (Well, it and TAR.) It truly is life-changing.  People can get so much out of it, a new perspective, a new sense of self, and we really saw that.

I love that this new wrinkle allowed players to keep fighting. I love that EVERY SINGLE PLAYER voted out grabbed that torch to continue just for the chance to get back in the game. And out of everyone, no matter how miserable the circumstances, but for two, stuck it out on that small piece of island. It really shows the power and effect this game has on people. I thought that was really amazing.

And the different perspective that Chris brought from coming back from his Survivor game was worthy of a win. It's called "Survivor" and he outlasted and outplayed the other players in another arena. He was still in the game. He may have gotten voted off part of the game, but per these new rules, he was still a part of it. And when he came back in, he played everyone perfectly and honestly. And that was one of THE most baller moves.... giving up his immunity to fight Devens to fire to fire to get back in the final 3.

I was so freaking happy when he beat Devens. Devens will go down as one of my least favorite non-horrific players. Yeah, if he'd been top 3, he would have deserved to win, but damn, I couldn't stand him. So I cheered with joy when Chris beat him.

That's my take anyway.

I am with you in the minority. It's weird coming here and seeing how awful this season was to a great deal of people. My whole household was entertained by this season, and actually had no problem with the setup.

I was pulling for Devens, but once Chris gave up his immunity to do the fire-making challenge, I had a feeling he would win.

[ForeverAlone]

As someone who thought Chris was a big possibility to win (just based on some spoilers, EVEN THOUGH the vast majority of spoilers were completely off target), I don't have a problem with his win. He played the cards he was dealt in the best way he could, and I liked him more than Gavin or Julie. I would be more peeved if he beat Victoria if she was in the F3, because she was the one I was rooting for the most of the normal game players. Hell, even Lauren if she made it to the end. But Gavin and Julie? Nah I'm good they lost.

I do think production hoped that  a EOE returnee would win, but I would bet large sums of money they didn't want Chris to win. I bet they wished it was any one of the returning players OR Rick. But anyone else? Doubtful. But anything can happen when they introduce a new twist into the game. Production doesn't always get the winner they were hoping for.

Chris was pretty close to winning his way back into the game with the first EOE challenge, and I wonder how the game would have played out differently if he had. He clearly was capable of game play, so that could have been fun. But in either case, I enjoyed the finale, just because so much happened. 

[vb68]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Another side-effect of this shift in dynamic: the successful Classic Survivor player is now socially penalized for their success, while the unsuccessful Classic Survivor player/evictee is rewarded for their failure.  We saw this ostracism born of segregation in both Gavin’s “out of the game” gaffe at FTC and Warthog’s (and the rest of the Jury’s) immediate negative response.  Gavin can (or should, anyway) be forgiven his faux pas, because he was one of only two players this entire season (himself and Julie) who never set foot on Sail Island - and why?  Because they never got voted off! - but the Jury’s contrarian response was to chastise Gavin for what they perceived as his denigration of the EoE gameplay he never had the opportunity to see.  In effect, Gavin got penalized for never losing - and that’s some fucked-up shit right there.

This is exactly why I think the whole thing needs an asterisk.  That doesn't mean it was Chris' fault. He played the hand he was dealt, and he does seem like a nice guy. But still. If you were sitting sidelines for 28 days (i.e. 4 weeks) and got to decompress (which Rick admitted on the jury) while players who outlasted everyone for the entire 39 days and possibly managed to avoid getting a single vote get dismissed because they didn't get to hang out on Jury Isle,   then yeah an asterisk is needed in my book. Again I'm not saying Chris is a bad guy, but it was BADLY thought out. 

Quote

I do find it a bit humerous that there are people complaining/not liking a Chris win because he came back from EoE who wanted Rick to win. Would that be because Rick came back from EoE earlier so we got a chance to watch him play?

This is why Gavin should had won.  Just because he wasn't as flashy or showboating as other people doesn't negate his strategy, which was on display plenty. Rick was just there either gleefully crowing about finding idols or whining when something didn't go his way.  The fact that Gavin's achievement of never getting a vote (which was Sandra's ace in the hole against Lill in her first season) was dismissed didn't speak well for the season in my book.

Edited May 16, 2019 by vb68
Big bolding mistake

[iMonrey]

I spent the first fifteen minutes going "Who's Eric?" Seriously, I had zero memory of that guy. That's what happens when almost nobody who gets voted out ever leaves. 

Season fail.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, laurakaye said:

As Cook Islands is my favorite season, I have to comment on this...when Becky and Sundra went up against each other making fire to get to the Final 3, the wind was blowing their sticks and ashes all over the place.  When they ran out of flint, Probst gave them matches and then smarmily sat there while neither woman could get her fire started - but these two guys get to go up where it's nice and sheltered from the wind.  Phooey on that.  Make that fire in the wind, rain or snow if that's the way to get to Final 3.  Sending them up to the voting booth where not everyone could watch is complete BS.

Thank you! That really irritated me and I found it very suspect.

[vb68]

5 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I spent the first fifteen minutes going "Who's Eric?"

I thought it was hard to separate Eric and Chris. They looked like the same person.

[Nashville]

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I spent the first fifteen minutes going "Who's Eric?" Seriously, I had zero memory of that guy. That's what happens when almost nobody who gets voted out ever leaves. 

Season fail.

Eric is the guy who isn’t Chris.

[simplyme]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

After he returned, I thought Chris played amazingly well.  He had three big moves: 1) getting Rick to trust him and want to go to final four with him with the half idol, 2) bamboozling Lauren into playing her idol for him, and 3) sacrificing his immunity so he could make fire and eliminate his ally Rick.  In any other season, these moves alone would likely be considered to be masterful. 

I’m going to be honest. I’m less impressed with Chris’s “masterful” moves. The only one I think took much brains or doing on his part MIGHT be the first, but I question how willing Rick was to screw him over a second time after Rick screwed him over once and then immediately followed him to EoE (and talked big about learning from it).

Despite Chris’s claim of using a sales technique on Lauren to get her to play her idol for him, I think it’s more likely that she, like everyone else except Victoria, was overly focused on Devens. So when Devens played his idol, she thought “I need Chris to beat Devens so he doesn’t get immunity” and played her idol to ensure that Chris stayed.

As to sacrificing his own immunity to take on Rick, this is something I’ve considered before. Since the implementation of firemaking to settle the third spot, if you won the last immunity contest, that honestly would be the only way you could eliminate someone you needed to get rid of. All or nothing. Also keep in mind that Chris was the third vote out and then acted as provider on EoE. I’m pretty sure he got a lot of fire-making practice leading up to his return to the active game.

None of this means that Chris didn’t play well once he got back. Hell, given the general level of people shooting themselves or others in the foot this season, sure. Those last few days counted as positively brilliant in comparison, sadly. But it’s not really like they *should* have, which is what irks the bejesus out of me.

So congrats to Chris on winning this flaming trash heap of a season. Not his fault production screwed the pooch, but so unsatisfying for me.

And, of course, @Nashville had the post above that 100% summarized why the concept was so flawed.

Edited May 16, 2019 by simplyme
Autocorrect changed English word to Esperanto word

[fishcakes]

Chris won fair and square under the rules of this season, but the rules of this season were stupid, and no matter how many interviews Probst is contractually obligated to give in which he praises it as a great fun season, it will never be so. This season was the Outcast twist made a hundred times worse, but mostly it was a bore. Even so, as against Gavin and Julie, Chris was the only acceptable winner. As others have said, he executed more strategy and in a more effective way in three days than they did in 39. They were both goats, but in different ways. Gavin was a barely animate null sign and Julie was an unlikable mess.

Really, I don't think anyone voted FOR Gavin, except maybe Aurora. I think Rick, Lauren, and Wentworth were voting against Chris, rather than for Gavin. Rick because he saved Chris at F5 and Chris didn't save him at F4, Lauren because Chris convinced her to uselessly burn her idol, and Wentworth I'm not sure why. She seemed to have a lot of animosity towards him during FTC, not just the "Jeeeefff! make him stop asking questions I'm offended!" but also when she asked him a question, he was answering it in what seemed to be a normal way and she immediately cut him off and said something like, "hello? verbal diarrhea!" (ETA: I'm rewatching this part now, and I misunderstood that exchange. The verbal diarrhea comment was in reference to herself telling everyone at EoE that Lauren had an idol, so, uh, never mind.) I doubt she's still mad that he wanted to vote her out early on since that's what got him voted out; at the same time, I don't really care about either of them enough to wonder what happened.

As for the firemaking challenge being in the voting booth, it's probably because in the past, there has  been criticism that one person is more exposed to the wind and therefore loses. I think putting it in the booth is fine, and that everything was on the up-and-up. The jury could see what was happening, and although Gavin and Julie couldn't, I didn't hear anyone say they couldn't get up and move to where they could see but they're both so dull-witted it didn't seem to occur to them. However, because the lighting was different in the voting booth, the scenes from the firemaking challenge looked as though they could have been filmed at an entirely different time, and I'm kind of surprised not to hear a bunch of speculation about how it proves the show is rigged and Chris is obviously Mark Burnett's secret son and this season was filmed in Jeff's basement.

Edited May 16, 2019 by fishcakes

[vb68]

15 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

Really, I don't think anyone voted FOR Gavin, except maybe Aurora. I think Rick, Lauren, and Wentworth were voting against Chris, rather than for Gavin.

I had the opposite take. Wentworth and especially Rick appeared to appreciate a Classic Survivor win like Gavin was arguing for himself. Rick kept noting how much harder it was to stay in the game for 39 days and how you didn't have to be in game mode on Extinction. Maybe there was resentment that Chris took him out, but Rick's arguments for Gavin were sound.

Edited May 16, 2019 by vb68

[ree1778]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Rick is like your typical early elementary school age kid. It's not fair when you do something that hurts me but it is ok when I do it to you because I am being clever.

In my mind they were different because Ron went right up to Devens and handed him the Idol, looking him in the eyes and pretending it was real. He used it to confuse Devens and make him think they were working together. It was completely fair for Ron to do it, but it's not the same thing as just hiding a fake Idol and letting whoever find it.

Both are fair game play, but I don't think it's the same thing.

[gesundheit]

11 minutes ago, ree1778 said:

In my mind they were different because Ron went right up to Devens and handed him the Idol, looking him in the eyes and pretending it was real. He used it to confuse Devens and make him think they were working together. It was completely fair for Ron to do it, but it's not the same thing as just hiding a fake Idol and letting whoever find it.

Both are fair game play, but I don't think it's the same thing.

Not to mention, when Devens had the mini-tantrum about that (making him look bad in front of his kids, etc) at TC, he was faking it. He didn't actually think it was unfair, he was putting on a show.

[fishcakes]

5 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

Not to mention, when Devens had the mini-tantrum about that (making him look bad in front of his kids, etc) at TC, he was faking it. He didn't actually think it was unfair, he was putting on a show. 

Yes, he let the mask drop immediately when Ron said "good game" or the like to him and Rick was like, "oh, yeah, you too, man!" He clearly wasn't mad. He did a similar thing last night when he walked in as the last jury member. He gave Chris a death glare for a minute and then broke out a huge grin. He's a showboat and a goofball, but his petulance looks to be a big act. Then again, he did vote for Gavin.

Edited May 16, 2019 by fishcakes

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, vb68 said:

This is why Gavin should had won.  Just because he wasn't as flashy or showboating as other people doesn't negate his strategy, which was on display plenty. Rick was just there either gleefully crowing about finding idols or whining when something didn't go his way.  The fact that Gavin's achievement of never getting a vote (which was Sandra's ace in the hole against Lill in her first season) was dismissed didn't speak well for the season in my book.

Well, I think Gavin shouldn't have won because he couldn't even articulate himself why he should have won.  Someone asked him for an example of a big move he made and he said "I forged relationships".  He couldn't give them any reason for voting for him, apart from "well Chris got voted out and it's just not faaaaaiiiirrrr that he got to come back".

In order to win, Gavin needed to stress more on the moves he made and how he was the silent mastermind behind many of the boots.  He did say something in passing about Aubrey's vote but he didn't emphasize his active gameplay enough. 

On the other hand, Chris' job is apparently in sales, and it was evident.  He made calm and coherent arguments for himself and he was so smooth in doing so.   He impressed people with talking about the "negative reverse".

I'm curious about Kelly's vote for Gavin because she had previously told Chris how much she values "big moves" and that if Lauren was going to win the game, she had to make sure she showed the jury that she made a "big move".  Gavin clearly didn't make any big moves, or at least couldn't articulate any of them, and yet Kelly still voted for him.  Makes it sound like Kelly was jus' jealous that she wasn't the EoE returnee.

53 minutes ago, simplyme said:

As to sacrificing his own immunity to take on Rick, this is something I’ve considered before. Since the implementation of firemaking to settle the third spot, if you won the last immunity contest, that honestly would be the only way you could eliminate someone you needed to get rid of. All or nothing. Also keep in mind that Chris was the third vote out and then acted as provider on EoE. I’m pretty sure he got a lot of fire-making practice leading up to his return to the active game.

He knew that if Rick made it to final three that he was going to win the game.  And he trusted himself more to make fire than Gavin or Julie.  But it was still a risk.  If Gavin or Julie lose the firemaking challenge to Rick, then Chris doesn't win the game even though he is in the finals.  If Chris puts himself in the firemaking challenge and loses, he doesn't win the game.  His best chance of winning the game is to rely on himself.  I thought that move took balls.  He didn't want to just settle for being a guaranteed runner up.  He went for it.

26 minutes ago, ree1778 said:

In my mind they were different because Ron went right up to Devens and handed him the Idol, looking him in the eyes and pretending it was real. He used it to confuse Devens and make him think they were working together. It was completely fair for Ron to do it, but it's not the same thing as just hiding a fake Idol and letting whoever find it.

Both are fair game play, but I don't think it's the same thing.

I don't think there's much difference.  At this point, Rick viewed the game has Chris and himself vs. the rest.  He didn't care which of the remaining three found his two fake idols, as long as they were found and played.   The whole point of him planting the fake idols is so that he could have a laugh at their expense and because he wanted yet another thing on his resume if he made it to the final.  "I fooled you, I'm so awesome."

The scenes of him cackling were a bit much.  I didn't even like Julie and Lauren and I genuinely felt bad for them about how happy they were at finding these fake idols and then gushing about it to the camera.  I'm sure when they were watching last night at home, they felt humiliated.  The same exact humiliation Rick felt when Ron gave him the expired advantage.

I'm not convinced he was faking his anger and humiliation.  I get that it may have been a show for the jury but I would find it hard to believe that he wasn't genuinely upset at Ron.

Edited May 16, 2019 by blackwing

[gesundheit]

5 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm not convinced he was faking his anger and humiliation.  I get that it may have been a show for the jury but I would find it hard to believe that he wasn't genuinely upset at Ron.

Really? He immediately started laughing. He hammed it up like that the whole game. We even had a talking head of him pretty convinced that it was a worthless "idol" before that tribal council, but he was going to have fun with the theater of it.

I'd be shocked if he were serious in that moment, especially since the jury licked the whole thing up just as anyone in his position would wish!

[tvfanatic13]

Hated this season so very much. But, damn, Victoria is simply gorgeous cleaned up!

[meep.meep]

9 hours ago, plurie said:

Chris played the hand he was dealt near perfectly (after messing up initially before getting voted to EoE). He schmoozed the jury endlessly, getting potential votes and information. The other players at EoE were idiots to share so much information, and he used it when he got back into the game. He played Lauren (who was a complete moron to use her idol to save him) and then made his "big" move to take out Rick Devins (which was the ONLY way he could have won the game. If Devins had won the firemaking challenge, he would have won the game. If Gavin (or Julie) had beaten Devins at firemaking, HE (or she) would have won the game.

I hate the whole EoE twist, and the firemaking at final four, but that was the game they were playing.

I don't care that Chris won.  Good for him.

What I dislike about this season, is that they didn't bother to film anything going on at Extinction Island, so we really didn't get to see the game that Chris was playing.  That's the big failure of this season.  We got the one TH with people on the beach when they got there, usually with a tear rolling down their cheek, and maybe a scene with Reem treating them like shit.  They needed to be filming what was actually occurring there.  And they didn't.

Rick Devens is a Survivor "character" who I can live with never seeing ever again.  As others have said, if he does it (fake idols), it's the greatest idea ever, but if others do (Ron), it's unfair and he pouts.

And if next season features even more idols, I'm out.  I never watched Hantz's season after the first episode where he burned other people's belongings, and I'm done with too many idols.  Most people didn't like what happened to Cirie.  It's time to let them go.

[dizzyd]

Well like Probst said, EoE was an experiment. It failed, so I'm pretty sure it won't be coming back. This season was so bad, I stopped watching around episode 4 and only just remembered yesterday the finale was last night so tuned in and watched it with the blahest feelings of any past season. 

Since Rob and Sandra are mentors, I'm assuming the next cast is all new, which I like. I mean, I hope I never have to see Wentworth or Joe again, even as a cameo. I think both Rob and Sandra are funny and as long as they're not playing, I think they can make next season quite entertaining. After this season, let's hope. I haven't lost faith in this show yet. We've had some pretty good seasons lately before this one. 

Edited May 16, 2019 by dizzyd

[Matty]

I gather from reading the comments here that people are extremely unhappy with this season and the outcome. I'm in the minority and feel there were some good moments during this season. I thought Devens played the hell out of the game. How he managed to get to final four, when he was the target week after week, is a major feat that he pulled off. He had to fight every week to stay in the game and not get voted out for the second time. He kept fighting for it. I also think he provided some of the best moments at tribal council this season. Color me surprised that Gavin made it to the end without ever having his name written down. I hadn't realized that until last night when Devens brought that up. I know there is a lot of controversy here about Chris winning the whole thing after being voted out and coming back for the last three days but the jury voted for him for a reason. We can second guess it but they decided who they wanted to win their season. Out of the three choices available to them they picked Chris.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Matty