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S12.E22: The Maternal Conclusion


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Leonard is pleasantly surprised when Beverly comes to visit and she's genuinely kind to him, until he finds out the real reason she's there. Also, Denise and Stuart overstay their welcome at the Wolowitz house.

Airdate: Thursday, May 9, 2019

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Raj already moved halfway around the world from India to California, so why not from California to London? 

Am I a terrible person for not trusting that hug Beverly gave Leonard at the end?

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1 minute ago, Browncoat said:

Am I a terrible person for not trusting that hug Beverly gave Leonard at the end?

That was my first reaction, too, but I'm willing to go with it to tidy up unresolved issues. There is something sweet about Beverly realizing how much she hurt Leonard all these years. 

Outside of the Beverly/Leonard story, I felt meh about the rest of the episode. Raj feeling at home at Howard and Bernadette's place makes sense. Stuart's girlfriend freeloading is just annoying, and that story with her roommate was just filler. Not sure where they're going with Raj and Anu.

Looking forward to next week's episode, as it seems most of the characters are settled down.  

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Well, I found that utterly depressing.  That's was not the resolution between Leonard and his Mom that I was hoping for.  I hate that she hurt him once again.  I think the tears at the end were real though.  I'm sure it was a tough goodbye between this television mother & son duo. 

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29 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

Am I a terrible person for not trusting that hug Beverly gave Leonard at the end?

She took off her glasses before going to hug him, which means she was not in research mode anymore.  😉

I suppose there will always be hanging over that reconcilitation the possibility that she was not completely sincere, but it would have been lazy script-writing to tie up their relationship with a tidy pink bow in just a few minutes after all the years of frustration, hurt and anger on Leonard's part. In that context, I found that resolution satysfying and quietly optimistic.

I hope the writers get equally inventive in finding a way for Amy and Sheldon not to get the Nobel next week.

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30 minutes ago, Frost said:

 I ultimately liked Anu, but I commend the show for not needing to match up every character.  As long as Raj is happy and hopeful at the end, I'll be satisfied.

I too appreciate that the show is not matching everybody up at the end.  There are a lot of happy single people in the world, but most entertainment makes it seems like being happy, fulfilled and satisfied is impossible unless you're in a relationship.  So kudos Big Bang Theory.

I also really liked the Leonard/Beverly resolution.  I think it's very true that most people don't/can't change who they are, so it's ultimately up to each individual to let go of their own conflict in a way that's healthy for them.  (I mean set boundaries and make sure it's something you can live with sure, but it's also very freeing and healing to accept that other people may not ever be who you want them to be and make peace with that... even if that person is one's parent.)

I did like Penny standing up to her though.

I also liked Stuart admitting he had been too afraid to move in with his girlfriend and then later telling her he loves her, and the Raj/Howard scene at the airport.  Good episode.

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20 minutes ago, Florinaldo said:

I suppose there will always be hanging over that reconcilitation the possibility that she was not completely sincere, but it would have been lazy script-writing to tie up their relationship with a tidy pink bow in just a few minutes after all the years of frustration, hurt and anger on Leonard's part.

I wasn't expecting any pink bows, but I didn't think she'd come back just to hurt him again.  That was disappointing to me.  

45 minutes ago, Frost said:

I ultimately liked Anu, but I commend the show for not needing to match up every character.  As long as Raj is happy and hopeful at the end, I'll be satisfied.

There's always the chance that Anu declines the job and comes back to Raj, but if not, married or not I hope that Raj finds happiness.  

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(edited)
53 minutes ago, kazza said:

\that story with her roommate was just filler. 

Right.  I thought that it was kind of late to introduce a new character.

Edited by Babalooie
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So, no Raj and Anu?  Could this lead to the return of a character we met in season 1 that like Raj, and we saw again last season?  Are they going to have Raj and Missy, be the endgame?

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I wrote this in last week's episode thread:

"Here's how I'd like to see Leonard's final on-screen scene with Beverly:  Beverly does/says something (again) to totally put down Leonard.  Leonard stands up for himself - not in whiny way, but in a very adult, definitive - yet still somewhat respectful to his mother - way.  Something along the lines of "treat me like a full fledged adult or that's the end of our relationship".  Beverly pauses, nods, and says "I've been waiting 40 years for one of you to say that.  You're now my favorite."  Maybe even throws in a hug.  Wait, I take that back, that's one step too far. "

I guess the hug wasn't a step too far.  Way to go, Beverly.

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(edited)

I really liked the Leonard/Beverly story.  Of course she comes to visit as part of some experiment but due to Penny’s (and the rest of his friends) influence Leonard has grown in confidence enough to confront her about his needs and ultimately understand who she is as a person and forgive her.   I thought that was an incredible story.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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(edited)
13 hours ago, chaifan said:

sI guess the hug wasn't a step too far.  Way to go, Beverly.

I still don't trust her.  I have a M-I-L who is just as warm and fuzzy as Beverly.  😕

Edited by Babalooie
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1 hour ago, Frost said:

And Cinnamon would have to be in quarantine for 4 months - which could be a deal breaker!

Speaking of the little doggie, when was the last time we saw her?

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1 minute ago, chaifan said:

"Here's how I'd like to see Leonard's final on-screen scene with Beverly: 

Leonard has always felt inferior to his siblings because they are more accomplished, so I thought a fun scene would be where Beverly actually reveals that she's the most proud of him because he is the happiest of her kids (we don't know that, but it's kind of how I wanted it to happen.)  He may not be the most accomplished out of the siblings, but he has a job, friends and a wife that he loves and he seems to be the happiest with his life.  That's just my dream.  

I didn't expect Beverly to waltz in and crush Leonard once again.  I'm sorry, but that was depressing to me.  I was hoping for a more upbeat ending to their story.  I know that he's had his whole lifetime of seeking her approval, so I didn't expect things to wrap up all neat and tidy between them, but I didn't like this particular way of handling it.  I want tears of happiness, not tears of, 'shit, that was a kick in the gut'.  YMMV.  

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11 hours ago, Bronzedog said:

It must have been hard to come up with 7 minutes of show to wedge in between all the ads.  This show has been "Middled". They should have ended it last season.

Yes, with the wedding and the new research angle.

Sheldon was a Grade A dick in this episode. Completely clueless and such an insufferable asshole to Leonard, supposedly his best friend. God, I fucking hate the character.

The Raj story line was idiotic. They should have let him go to England. What was the point of the whole arranged marriage plot? Raj and Anu liked each other. To me that's a good start to a relationship. I'm annoyed that Howard fed Raj's unrealistically romantic notions of what marriage is. The clichéd airport scene, with gay misunderstanding of course, was tiresome.

Does Stuart not pay rent and chip in for groceries? Also another stupid plot. However, other than that, I thought he and Denise had the best story, especially the nerd-out at the end.

11 hours ago, Frost said:

I was proud of Leonard, but I wish he had followed his "I need to accept you as you are" with something along the lines of "....but I don't need to allow you in my home."

Yes, that's what I wanted to happen too. Leonard's character growth over the past two episodes is something that should have been happening all along.

Edited by SmithW6079
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1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

Well, I found that utterly depressing.  That's was not the resolution between Leonard and his Mom that I was hoping for.  I hate that she hurt him once again.  I think the tears at the end were real though.  I'm sure it was a tough goodbye between this television mother & son duo. 

I wasn't hoping for a resolution, so it was okay. I teared up a bit. My mom was kind of like Beverly about 50% of the time. Now she's 90 and can no longer speak. Maybe I will appreciate this scene more in the future as a sort of surrogate.
  
  
  

46 minutes ago, AnnaRose said:

I too appreciate that the show is not matching everybody up at the end.  There are a lot of happy single people in the world, but most entertainment makes it seems like being happy, fulfilled and satisfied is impossible unless you're in a relationship.  So kudos Big Bang Theory.

But I interpreted Raj as wanting to be married and have kids when he asked Howard what if this was his last chance for those things. And then Howard told him there were lots of chances yet in their area. So Big Bang gets kudos, but not for demonstrating that single people can be happy. The most single people in the episode--Beverly and the creepy roomate--are not happy campers.
  
  
  

20 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

Sheldon was a Grade A dick in this episode. Completely clueless and such an insufferable asshole to Leonard, supposedly his best friend. God, I fucking hate the character.

Sheldon's clueless schtick worked in the early seasons. He knows better now. 

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5 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

But I interpreted Raj as wanting to be married and have kids when he asked Howard what if this was his last chance for those things. And then Howard told him there were lots of chances yet in their area. So Big Bang gets kudos, but not for demonstrating that single people can be happy. The most single people in the episode--Beverly and the creepy roomate--are not happy campers.

I suppose having the unpaired-up person actually happy and satisfied about it is too much to ask... Maybe I should have just given kudos to TBBT for representing the reality that a lot of people aren't necessarily happily paired up?   I prefer it to having everybody matched up at least.

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2 hours ago, Roaster said:

Sheldon's first t-shirt tonight looked pretty interesting but I couldn't figure it out.

Was it the Green Arrow shirt???

It basically says if you put Oliver Queen on an island (the first picture)

then he learns archery  (the second picture),

he becomes The Green Arrow  (the third picture).

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2 hours ago, kazza said:

That was my first reaction, too, but I'm willing to go with it to tidy up unresolved issues. There is something sweet about Beverly realizing how much she hurt Leonard all these years. 

There was an interesting life message in there, about how you can't change people.  And sometimes people can't even change themselves.  I think Beverly, who is an intelligent woman, showed a lot of insight, admitting that she has fallen short in a lot of ways as a mother, and that she regretted it, even though it's who she is. 

They could leave Raj unattached, but maybe next week Anu shows up in California and proposes to him, deciding he's more important than London.

Stuart and Denise are always cute, but wow she has got to move out of there, and get away from that roommate of hers.

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1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I really liked the Leonard/Beverly story.  Of course she comes to visit as part of some experiment but due to Penny’s (and the rest of his friends) influence Leonard has grown in confidence enough to confront her about his needs and ultimately understand who she is as a person and forgive her.   I thought that was an incredible story.

I'm impressed didn't feel the need to get more expositional in the last scene. Beverly didn't have a break-down and moment of clarity. She quietly accepted Leonard's feelings and moved to out her research persona aside to comfort him. But she never admitted to being completely in the wrong. A nuanced scene I normally wouldn't have expected from this show.

A couple good subvsersions in this show with the decision to not have  Raj pursue love, and to have Howard help him feel good about his decision.

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1 hour ago, BooksRule said:

Speaking of the little doggie, when was the last time we saw her?

Maybe they couldn't afford the CGI to have Raj pet her.

(Sorry, that's a Game of Thrones joke lol).

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Well, part of me wanted to see the return of Nebraska Penny who would have punched Beverly.

The adult me wishes ONE of the characters would have told Beverly, "Having a different opinion than you is NOT the same as having a tantrum.  Stop trying to control people that way." Again, preferably Penny, who has common sense.

Sheldon is still a self-absorbed shit.  Even Amy was losing patience with him.

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3 minutes ago, Traveller519 said:

I'm impressed didn't feel the need to get more expositional in the last scene. Beverly didn't have a break-down and moment of clarity. She quietly accepted Leonard's feelings and moved to out her research persona aside to comfort him. But she never admitted to being completely in the wrong. A nuanced scene I normally wouldn't have expected from this show.

A couple good subvsersions in this show with the decision to not have  Raj pursue love, and to have Howard help him feel good about his decision.

I totally agree with your post except the bolded.  I've been impressed with the way this show has thoughtfully handled important character moments with great nuance and sensitivity.  A few examples that come to mind: Sheldon and Amy's first time having sex, their wedding, and Howard finding a letter from his father. 

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(edited)

You know what I'd really like them to close the series out with?  A two hour, all blooper and gag reel special.  Hosted by Wil Wheaton as his most affectionately sarcastic bad self.  That would be awesome.

Edited by HurricaneVal
Missing words are like missing links, they screw a post up like Evolution skipped over the Neanderthal s
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(edited)

Well, at least we now know that Sheldon's old room must still have a bed in it, and that there was no reason for Leonard to sleep on the couch when he was ill earlier this season (E14: The Meteorite Manifestation).

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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Eh, when I don't feel good, I prefer sleeping on the couch to either of our guest beds.  It's comforting, has all my stuff (chargers, Kindle, tablet etc.), is close to the kitchen and bathroom, has the good TV, the dog is there, and--now for a logical detail Sheldon would appreciate--when I'm achy and weak, pushing against the back or arms of the couch makes it easier to get up.

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(edited)

I liked that it finally felt like a show moving towards the finale. It wasn’t funny but I loved what they did with Leonard and Beverly. Also, Amy helping Leonard was a great scene even if Sheldon was an ass who wasn’t needed. Amy and Leonard are always a surprisingly good pairing. 

I like Anu but I would have cared more about Raj’s story if she hadn’t basically disappeared months ago. 

Edited by Guest
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I thought this was one of the better recent episodes but I knew that "applaud the gay couple" gag was coming before Howard even left for the airport. Have we seen that joke before or is it the predictable writing?

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3 hours ago, rmontro said:

There was an interesting life message in there, about how you can't change people.  And sometimes people can't even change themselves.  I think Beverly, who is an intelligent woman, showed a lot of insight, admitting that she has fallen short in a lot of ways as a mother, and that she regretted it, even though it's who she is. 

They could leave Raj unattached, but maybe next week Anu shows up in California and proposes to him, deciding he's more important than London.

You and I often think alike - I had the same thought about Anu possibly proposing to Raj and there being some 11th hour epic moment between them.  I'm not ready to think the show is done with them yet.  Too much set-up, and the show is in form with dicking the audience around with whether Raj will end up paired up with someone in the end.

I too saw the regret in Beverly over the way she treated Leonard and I think it was genuine.  Whether she can sustain it, though, is another story.  Still, it was handled in a touching manner.  I had the feeling that her interest in Leonard was genuine and she just made the excuse that it was for "research purposes".  It would have been better if there was some sort of plausible lead-up to this because it came out of the blue and seemed a bit contrived as a result, but I'll take it.

Edited by Yeah No
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Well, kuddos for giving Christine Baranski a terrific send-off. The Beverley-Leonard scenes were very well written and acted. One of the best plots this season.

And although I can't believe I'm typing this: Howard had the best outfit this episode - he looked great in the airport scene.

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2 hours ago, Eataton said:

I thought this was one of the better recent episodes but I knew that "applaud the gay couple" gag was coming before Howard even left for the airport. Have we seen that joke before or is it the predictable writing?

It's definitely a joke that's been a part of the Howard/Raj friendship for years so I wasn't surprised that they had a "no homo" moment at the airport.

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4 hours ago, Dani said:

It wasn’t funny but I loved what they did with Leonard and Beverly

It felt to me more like they were allowing a long-time writer to finally express something personal than a logical conclusion to  the relationship between Leonard and his mother.

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I guess I'm in the minority.  I wanted Raj to move to England.  Not necessarily because he needs to be coupled off. But, all of his friends have kind of moved on without him, so this would have been a new start.  And, he does want to be married and have kids.  I'm not saying everybody does, but this is clearly something he wants (but only if he and Anu love each other, of course).  Howard basically saying there are plenty of fish in the sea isn't necessarily true.  And, I thought after they broke up the first time, it was to lead to the conclusion that they do love each other despite their differences, so I'm a little disappointed.

I liked Leonard accepting his mother as she is.  I just hope he actually meant it.  He's never going to get approval or traditional love from her.

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2 hours ago, AD35 said:

It's definitely a joke that's been a part of the Howard/Raj friendship for years so I wasn't surprised that they had a "no homo" moment at the airport.

Yeah, I thought it was rather fitting that Raj’s biggest romantic scene on the show was dedicated to his bromance with Howard. 

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

It felt to me more like they were allowing a long-time writer to finally express something personal than a logical conclusion to  the relationship between Leonard and his mother.

I thought Leonard confronting his mother was a natural next step after drawing a line with Sheldon and pushing for advancement at work. Penny’s given him the unconditional love he’s never felt before (as touched on in this episode), and he finally feels on enough stable footing in one area to assert himself in others.

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(edited)

I think people were expecting too much out of the Beverly/Leonard scene.  I Thought the entire thing (except for the Sheldon stuff he acted like a needless jerk) was perfect.  Beverly hurt Leonard deeply but Leonard has grown over the years and instead of just stewing in it he ranted to his friends and then confronted his mother.  This was all very adult.   Even Beverly’s reaction ended up being adult.  So to have Leonard not want Beverly in his life or home to me would have taken away the adult nature of the whole thing.  Maybe if this wasn’t the last appearance of Beverly it would make sense but to kick her to the curb seems childish to me.  So I like this way better.  Leonard realization that if he wants his mother in his life he needs to accept her for who she is.  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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(edited)
35 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I wanted Raj to move to England.

This reminded me of the show Friends' ending.  Wasn't it Rachel going to move to England and Ross chased her to the airport?  I had flashbacks of that with Howard rushing to the airport.  I knew I'd seen this plot before!

5 hours ago, Yeah No said:

It would have been better if there was some sort of plausible lead-up to this because it came out of the blue and seemed a bit contrived as a result, but I'll take it.

I think that's what bugged me about this episode.  Honestly, I really didn't expect to see Beverly on the show again, so I didn't have any expectations of a conclusion to her and Leonard.  As I posted earlier, I had thought some time ago about a possible ending for them, but as the episodes progressed, I figured that we wouldn't see her or Mary again.  (I'd love another appearance by Laurie Metcalf.)  I think the show has wasted it's time on some stories this season when they could've slowly been wrapping things up with all of the characters.  

ETA:  What I've always wondered about Leonard's siblings is if Beverly treated them the same way.  Are they happy?  What kind of relationship do they have with their Mom?  If they were all treated equally, why didn't Leonard find solace with either of them?  These are things I wish they would've addressed this past season.  

Edited by ChitChat
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 While I'm glad that Leonard made his own peace regarding his mother, I would have rather seen that as him telling her to get out of his house and not to contact him again. Forgiveness is too good for Beverly.

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(edited)

Aw, I loved it. The whole show. I'm one of those boring people who want my favorite characters to end happily. I ugly cried during Beverly and Leonard's hug and I am satisfied with this measure of closure. 

And no, I don't want Raj to move to England, I want him to find happiness like his friends. The world is fucked up enough, I don't need real life inserting itself into my TV escape, so I want everyone to be happy and get what they want. It doesn't happen nearly enough IRL, let me have this, dammit! 😊

I would never want Leonard to tell his mother to get out and never contact him again, because that's not what Leonard has wanted. That would've been super depressing, and not at all consistent.

Edited by Badsamaritan
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9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But I interpreted Raj as wanting to be married and have kids when he asked Howard what if this was his last chance for those things. And then Howard told him there were lots of chances yet in their area. So Big Bang gets kudos, but not for demonstrating that single people can be happy. The most single people in the episode--Beverly and the creepy roomate--are not happy campers.

Yes, Raj wants marriage and children, but instead of encouraging his friend to build a marriage with a woman he liked and respected, Howard fed him the bullshit that love and marriage is just like the movies. Given that Raj has seen his friends' marriages -- especially how Bernadette treats Howard -- how can he continue to believe in fairy tales? 

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7 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

Yes, Raj wants marriage and children, but instead of encouraging his friend to build a marriage with a woman he liked and respected, Howard fed him the bullshit that love and marriage is just like the movies. Given that Raj has seen his friends' marriages -- especially how Bernadette treats Howard -- how can he continue to believe in fairy tales? 

I think they were saying liking a woman is great, but marry for love. Not out of a desperate fear of being alone. And maybe find someone who’s interested in the same things, rather than giving up your own life and identity and settling for someone because they’re there.

If Raj had truly loved Anu, I doubt Howard would have stopped him.

Edited by jmonique
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(edited)
1 hour ago, SmithW6079 said:

Yes, Raj wants marriage and children, but instead of encouraging his friend to build a marriage with a woman he liked and respected, Howard fed him the bullshit that love and marriage is just like the movies. Given that Raj has seen his friends' marriages -- especially how Bernadette treats Howard -- how can he continue to believe in fairy tales? 

Because Raj is a romantic who had this big proposal planned on Notting Hill.   He watches Bridget Jones’s Diaries  and The Good Wife.    I think Howard was trying to tell him to marry someone as romantic as he is not someone who wouldn’t understand his grand romantic gestures. 

Edited by Chaos Theory
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1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

This reminded me of the show Friends' ending.  Wasn't it Rachel going to move to England and Ross chased her to the airport?  I had flashbacks of that with Howard rushing to the airport.  I knew I'd seen this plot before!

Rachel was moving to Paris.  I kind of wanted her to move too, although, I don't really think it was fair to Ross and Emma. However, I always hated the Ross/Rachel pairing. Ugh.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

Leonard realization that if he wants his mother in his life he needs to accept her for who she is.

I thought this reflected the real life of so many people I know.  Life isn't perfect and neither are people and sometimes you have to accept even toxic people in your life (cutting a parent out of your life completely isn't always a realistic option).  But you have to be the one who draws lines.

Edited by Homily
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Thanks to an ill timed thunderstorm, my episode went from Anu telling Raj she was offered a job to Howard telling Raj that he deserves someone who knows what proposing at Knotting Hill means. (I've been saying that all season. Anu doesn't like music? What kind of person is that?) So, I have no idea what happened this episode.

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22 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

Yes, Raj wants marriage and children, but instead of encouraging his friend to build a marriage with a woman he liked and respected, Howard fed him the bullshit that love and marriage is just like the movies. Given that Raj has seen his friends' marriages -- especially how Bernadette treats Howard -- how can he continue to believe in fairy tales? 

Or Raj understands that Bernadette and Howard's marriage works for them and he can accept that. Bernadette and Howard seem to be happy with the occasional bump, like most marriages.

I wanted Raj to go to London. Moving is hard but it can lead to many good things. And sometimes leaving where you are is necessary for growth. Raj has excellent credentials and would probably be able to find a job with those credentials. He might find that the new enviroment allows himself to embrace different sides of himself and grow as a person. Maybe he and Anu were not ready to be married but there would not be anything wrong with moving and seeing how they do together in a new environment.

Sheldon was a massive ass and I did not believe for a second that Sheldon would be that level of an ass. He has grown more then that and knows better. It was lazy writing and did not work.

I was interested in the story arc with Leonard and his Mom. I can only guess that she picked up on everyone waiting for the but. I thought the multiple choice approach was stupid and not likely. I liked Penny's response to Beverly, both the creation of option "D" and her comment that Beverly needed to go find her son and deal with the bullshit she had wrought.

I was fine with how Leonard handled his Mom. She has come to visit a few times and he talks with her occasionally but they are not close and I don't think that is going to change. But she is not so awful that he is willing to cut her out.

Penny and Leonard's relationship has never been all that smooth but they do balance each other out and have both grown because of the other. Leonard knows Penny will never understand his world fully but she supports what he is doing. She has helped him to be a stronger person. And Leonard has done the same for Penny. I think when they met, Penny didn't think she could be anything but a waitress or an actress. Leonard supported her acting career while being more realistic and then helped her understand that she could be more then that. Her current job is as much because Bernadette and Leonard believed that she could be a great salesperson.

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