S08.E04: The Last of the Starks

[catrice2]

3 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

Sam and Gilly have a strong relationship and aren’t homicidal and evil, so there’s that. 

Sam shouldn't even be alive...he's not homicidal and evil, just weak. So Sam, who has literally done nothing but ride to town with dividing news and be a BFF gets the wife and happy ending, and Greyworm who has been tortured all his life and turned into a weapon does not?!   O.k....I get everyone will not get a happy ending, but he certainly earned one.

Edited May 6, 2019 by catrice2

[kellog010]

Even Ned knew some secrets need to be kept. Look at what's already happening. It doesn't matter what Jon wants. 

[Brn2bwild]

56 minutes ago, seawind said:

100%. The double Ds totally forced this, and it sucks big time. I'm so intensely disappointed right now I have a huge pit in my stomach. They just blew it. Completely. 😞

There really needs to be an "Angry" option for the emojis on this site...

[Kanner]

2 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

Sam and Gilly have a strong relationship and aren’t homicidal and evil, so there’s that. 

Omg! How could I forget them? Thanks.  I feel a little better. 

[Minneapple]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

She is devious and selfish, just like LF, Cersei and Ramsay.  She is just not as strong as them.

She's outlived two of the three and overcame their abuse and manipulation of her, so I'd say she's at least stronger than them.

[ferjy]

5 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

I normally don’t post here but I have a question. Did Jon tell Dany he loved her or it was just him saying she’s his queen?

Also, shouldn’t Euron be putting two and two together about Cersei’s pregnancy? How would Tyrion know she’s pregnant if the child was really his? 

Euron's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Advance35]

Quote

Proving also that Jon doesn't really mean anything to her. 

Does Sansa mean anything to Jon?  Even when she's reasonable and making sense (ala the soldiers need rest) Danerys want's Sansa to shut up, so Jon shut her up.  Jon is just another one of Dany's "Yes Men."  If he were going to be any sort of asset to the North he would have told Dany that the men need rest before fighting yet ANOTHER war.

[filmfan2480]

22 minutes ago, TiredMe said:

Jesus I thought this episode was a mess. I hated Gendry proposing. What is this? the Bachelor?  And I was never a fan of Brienne and Jamie so I was screaming no during their cringy ass hook up. 

The true low point was Tyrion asking what she was like down there. Good god show! 

I expect death so frankly Missandei was no surprise but I’m upset we lost another dragon. And don’t get me started on Jon sending Ghost away. 

I'm kinda with you on these points.

[CletusMusashi]

Very sad well-done start. I was already over last week, but forgot how much sadder funerals are compared to the initial shock of someone's death. Then the characters had some fun for a while, which was also great. Then some intrigue, which is also fine.

Sansa being a bitch, not so fine. You're home, you're safe, you're mostly in charge of Winterfell despite the fact that you have one or two living brothers... you're doing good. Shit, you haven't even run low on alcohol yet! The main secessionist voice of the Thenorthian Tea Party was Babybear, and she's not even around any more, so just chill the fuck out and work with Dany. She'll have a whole continent to argue with. It's not like she's gonna keep flying up every day to have her dragons poop on your lawn. And you know what? If Euron kills Yara and starts teleporting around the coast making pirate raids, Cersei ain't gonna protect the Starks. Dany would, if you turn the animosity down to a 3.

Or at least normal Dany would. Seems like the writers are deciding to have her go over-the-top crazy, which pisses me off. When she's written well, she's a great character.

Euron is... interesting. But his ability to target and kidnap whichever individual he specifically targets is pretty ridiculous. Does he have some kind of supernatural bounty-hunter training or something?

Dire wolves can't live south of the now-non-existent wall, during winter? Seemed like all the others did okay, but, hey, whatever. Jon is a very neglectful wolf-daddy anyway. Tormund will probably play with Ghost a lot more than Jon did. 

Jon Snargaryan, as always, knows nothing. Not only was he the one who went right in with "Yes, your majesty, we'll do whatever you want immediately, here's a plan that will go terribly because my plans always suck!" but at the family meeting even Bran was like "Um, dude, are you sure you want to tell them this shit?"

Not sure what's up with Arya. I get her being hesitant to trust Dany, but isn't Cersei still on her hit list? Or is that no longer a thing? I would say "New Person Who Seems Way, Way Better Than Cersei"  is probably better than "Person Who Actually Is Cersei."

Edited May 6, 2019 by CletusMusashi

[Vella]

There is NO way Jon does not want to be King.

He does. He cannot admit it to himself or anyone else, but Dany was 100% right when she said that it didn't matter, once it got out, it would go a certain way.

Yet he STILL tells Sansa and Arya, mere MOMENTS after both have sniffed their noses and said "she's not from here, you are".  Especially knowing the fractious relationship between Sansa and Dany and yet he still tells them. He knows Sansa will fight tooth and nail to keep the North free. He KNOWS this and still tells her. Sansa will do what she believes is best for herself and the North, and that's not letting an outsider rule. Period. She has always been clear about the end goal.

But he STILL told her.  Why? This HUGE revelation.  Once again, Dany knew better. After everything Sansa had lived through, there was NO WAY she'd keep quiet.

And Jon must know that the person who loses is Dany. Each time, it's her. Not him. They both know that.

So he wants to be King. He does. If he didn't, he'd keep his fucking trap shut. Simple as that.

And I want for SOMEONE to fucking call him out on that.

[Luckylyn]

Jon and Dany are both letting worry over the truth of Jon's parentage affect them.   Dany's threatened by Jon's popularity and the challenge of wining over people like Sansa who are resistant to her rule.  Jon is trying so hard to prove to Dany that he's not after the throne that he hesitates to disagree with her.  

[Giselle]

The only two scenes I liked were Tyrion, Jamie and  Bronn and then scene with Tyrion and Varys.

This short season seems forced, a bit off and rushed.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Giselle
Changed looked to like....autocorruption

[ShellsandCheese]

4 minutes ago, kellog010 said:

Even Ned knew some secrets need to be kept. Look at what's already happening. It doesn't matter what Jon wants. 

He should have listened to Dany. Ygritte was right all those years ago, Jon Snow or um, Aegon Targaryen really knows nothing. 

[catrice2]

And Missandei, the former slave, dies with her hands in chains.....gotta love these writers. 

[seawind]

53 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

it didn't occur to Daenerys to circle around Euron's fleet and burn the ships from the rear (all the dragon killer harpoons were facing front). 

THIS.

[ferjy]

8 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Tormund seems pretty happy with the chick he picked up too.

Naw, that's just a rebound screw. He's still pining for Brienne. ;-D

[GraceK]

She doesn’t trust SANSA. That’s the issue. Sansa has been a bitch to her from the beginning, and based in this episode? Danys right. Dany asked Jon to hide his parentage because she knows that SANSA will try to use it to foster discord and conflict. She knows that SANSA will use this information to try to put Jon on the throne against his will and forment rebellion and conflict between them. And she was right. After all Dany has done for the realm, Sansa still hates her. She even knows it’s irrational, she just hates her. She doesn’t want to help, she doesn’t want to be allies, and she doesn’t want Jon to honor his promise to her. She looks  at her  dragons and says “ why her” petulantly. When Dany makes Gendry a lord, Sansa is pissed. She’s even mad that Arya respects the fact that Jon needed her dragons and armies. Sansa just hates her, and it’s irrational, and as soon as she finds out about Jon, she tells Tyrion, and According to the writers, she knows the consequences. She knows it’s gonna get around. She has no respect for Jon’s feelings, or what he wants or anything. Honestly? It’s like she doesn’t love him at all, because if she did, she wouldn’t treat him like he doesn’t matter. And Dany KNOWS all this. She sees right through Sansa. She tells Jon that Sansa is not the innocent little sister he thinks she is. Everyone calls Sansa out  on her bullshit this episode and STILL Dany is the bad guy?

[sistermagpie]

18 minutes ago, LanceM said:

Dany should burn Kings Landing to the ground. Everytime she listens to Tyrion and Varys she loses power.  Every single time. However when she takes things into her own hands she gets shit done whther it was destroying the Lannister army that had taken HIghgarden last year or saving Jon and everyone ass up beyond the Wall.  Olenna was right last season. You're a dragon be a dragon. Dracarys.

But that would make her what she ostensibly hates: a tyrant.

14 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

I really don’t understand Sansa’s antipathy. After ALL of what they faced, how could she doubt that Dany was trying to do the right thing for the whole of Westeros?  As much as I have sympathized with the character I don’t think what she’s doing in regard to Dany is reasonable. Okay, yes, the soldiers are battle weary, but the way she said she would have to ask the commanders sounded more like “never” to me and I would guess to Dany as well. Jon seemed to pick up on it as well which is why he made an executive decision to prepare the troops to go South. 

And Arya: “ She not one of us.” Yeesh. Nevertheless, Dany came to the aid of the North. 

I think she's got fine reason to think Dany doing what she thinks is best for Westeros isn't in the best interest of the North. It's not that Dany's any actual enemy of the North, but her goal is to rule all 7 kingdoms. Her first priority is herself on the throne, and after that she'd be ruling al 7 kingdoms together while the North would, of course, put the North's interests first. Any country would have good reason to question whether the ruler of all 7 kingdoms would be putting them first.

"I'd have to ask the commanders" could be seen as a "never" answer, but it's also just the most practical answer. It only means never if there's an assumption the commanders are going to lie or say whatever Sansa wants, and there's no reason to think that was true. As Sansa pointed out, she was talking about Dany's own soldiers too. Jon picking up on Dany's more paranoid reading was overruling not just "never" but rest for the soldiers.

[tennisgurl]

If Jaimie just goes back to being Cerseis boy toy, than...what has even been the point? 

It is interesting that the beginning of the end for Danys father was when he executed valuable prisoners out of spite, and that led to the war that ended not only his reign, but his whole family dynasty. Cersei better watch herself is what I am sayin...

[MarySNJ]

On 5/5/2019 at 11:21 PM, GodsBeloved said:

That’s what I kept saying. The NK was a common enemy. He was as much an enemy to Winterfell/the North as he was to the realm that Danny says is hers, which means he’s her enemy too.

She didn’t have to take Jon’s word for it and make an effort to unite the entirety of Westeros against a common enemy. She could have gone straight to Kings Landing and burned the Red Keep with Cersei in it and then headed North (she might have had a lot more troops along the way) as a conqueror. She was trying to demonstrate that as Queen of all the 7K, she is  “protector of the realm” including the North, but those she tried to protect claim that they’re not part of her realm. 

I think this is one of those points that a lot of people are going to disagree about. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by MarySNJ
They’re not their

[Grumpymonkey]

10 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

Proving also that Jon doesn't really mean anything to her. 

I don't know about that. She didn't want Jon to go to the South because the men in her family don't fare well there. I think she cares. I do think after what she went through she has a new appreciation her family and her home and wants to protect both. Opinion could always change but that's where I am now.

[Leroux]

40 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree. They loathe each other so much they're going to be antagonistic even when one of them is making reasonable requests. 

The problem is that one of them is or pretends to be a queen, the other one is not. One has the power, the other one has not. 

Sansa was asking for some time for her soldiers to recover, it was a perfectly reasonable request. Dany took it as an insult and decided to put her foot down. Her advisors are obviously not willing to contradict her so they keep quiet (Tyrion & Varys) or support her (Jon) so they go along with her plan even if they probably know that the suggestion to recover is a sound one. 

That has always been my major issue with Daenerys, her little willingness and desire to learn, for all claims that the IT is her destiny, she is going there very ill-prepared to be the queen that the people need, she hardly listens to her advisors and then when it doesn't go her way she blames them. She should have given her soldiers time to recover, recruit more men from the Vale, Dorne, and Highgarden and overpower their numbers. 

As long as she gets the throne she doesn't seem to care about the casualties along the way and that is what makes her dangerous. Sansa IMO has seen this and has every right to give her the side eye. She has seen directly in Cersei what a woman mad for power is willing to do. I do not blame Sansa for thinking that Jon would be a better king, 

[LanceM]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

But that would make her what she ostensibly hates: a tyrant.

No I'd say she would be using extreme violence to defeat evil, which sadly has to be done at times.

[Drogo]

7 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Euron is... interesting. But his ability to target and kidnap whichever individual he specifically targets is pretty ridiculous. Does he have some kind of supernatural bounty-hunter training or something?

Yet with clear shots toward two dragons in flight, he'll go 3 for 3 connecting with the one not carrying the opposing Queen.

Not a closer, this Iron Dickbreath.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, Vella said:

There is NO way Jon does not want to be King.

He does. He cannot admit it to himself or anyone else, but Dany was 100% right when she said that it didn't matter, once it got out, it would go a certain way.

Yet he STILL tells Sansa and Arya, mere MOMENTS after both have sniffed their noses and said "she's not from here, you are".  Especially knowing the fractious relationship between Sansa and Dany and yet he still tells them. He knows Sansa will fight tooth and nail to keep the North free. He KNOWS this and still tells her. Sansa will do what she believes is best for herself and the North, and that's not letting an outsider rule. Period. She has always been clear about the end goal.

But he STILL told her.  Why? This HUGE revelation.  Once again, Dany knew better. After everything Sansa had lived through, there was NO WAY she'd keep quiet.

And Jon must know that the person who loses is Dany. Each time, it's her. Not him. They both know that.

So he wants to be King. He does. If he didn't, he'd keep his fucking trap shut. Simple as that.

And I want for SOMEONE to fucking call him out on that.

I don't know.  I think Jon has too much Ned in him and trusts people.  You would think he could trust his family and he could trust Arya and Bran.

But, Sansa has been undermining him from the start.  After the BOTB, there were 2 people in the room not standing and shouting "The King in the North!", Littlefinger and Sansa, who after giving a fake half smile to Jon, gave a look to Littlefinger that reminded me of the look Michael Corleone gave to Al Neri, while he hugged Fredo when he hugged him at their mother's wake.

Sansa has never cared about any of her family members.  They are merely either helpful to her or in her way.

[UNOSEZ]

51 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

My god Tyrion is stupid. I used to think he was the most clever character on here but since killing his father, his brain cells have evaporated. I wonder if he gets it finally now with Cersei? There is no talking to her. Nothing will change who and what she is!

His options were limited and for political reasons they needed to at least make it seem like they tried before Dany went and started burning everything  or Dany would be treated as a conquering invader instead of a rightful heir

[MarySNJ]

Just now, MarySNJ said:

She didn’t have to take Jon’s word for it and make an effort to unite the entirety of Westeros against a common enemy. She could have gone straight to Kings Landing and burned the Red Keep with Cersei in it and then headed North (she might have had a lot more troops along the way) as a conqueror. She was trying to demonstrate that as Queen of all the 7K, she is  “protector of the realm” including the North, but those she tried to protect claim that their not part of her realm. 

I think this is one of those points that a lot of people are going to disagree about. 

And one more thing, what does Sansa think will happen to the North if Cersei defeats Dany? Will Cersei let the rebellious Northerners remain independent? Will she let the Starks keep Winterfell and let Sansa keep her head? Not likely. If she has to accept a southern Queen, at least Dany has shown that she gives a damn and actually has a connection with Jon. It’s in Sansa’s interest to see Cersei deposed and a friendly Queen in KL. 

[Hiacios]

1 hour ago, JennyMominFL said:

Dany  and Cersei acting just like I knew they would. Neither one deserves the throne

Oh, Dany more than deserves it, she is the rightful ruler. 

I am fuming over this episode! I can't wait for Dany to light that dirty city up!!!!!

[JennyMominFL]

3 minutes ago, Hiacios said:

Oh, Dany more than deserves it, she is the rightful ruler. 

I am fuming over this episode! I can't wait for Dany to light that dirty city up!!!!!

I hope she dies. Cersei too

Edited May 6, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[cambridgeguy]

Just now, Grumpymonkey said:

I don't know about that. She didn't want Jon to go to the South because the men in her family don't fare well there. I think she cares. I do think after what she went through she has a new appreciation her family and her home and wants to protect both. Opinion could always change but that's where I am now.

I think she cares but she also has zero respect for his intelligence and judgement when it comes to Dany.  In her mind he's just like Ned and Robb - honorable men who were outwitted by their southern enemies.

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

So he wants to be King. He does. If he didn't, he'd keep his fucking trap shut. Simple as that.

And I want for SOMEONE to fucking call him out on that.

Jon has never shown himself to be that clever.  Family should be honest with each other, right?  Promises are supposed to be kept, especially between family, right?  You shouldn't keep secrets from someone you love, right?  That's the simple, honorable thing, so of course Jon's going to do that when even the beloved Ned Stark was able to keep his mouth shut about Jon.

[VCRTracking]

Fuck.

Cersei just made it PERSONAL.

RIP Missandei.

Edited May 6, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Hiacios]

Just now, JennyMominFL said:

i hope she dies. Cersei too

She won't, but Jon, Arya, and Cersei will. You can bet on it.

[Leroux]

51 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I think Sansa should rule. I don't like Dany or Jon as a good fit.

What is Tyrion fighting for? Does he have a goal in mind?

Brienne is the big loser in all this. I respect Jaimie's decision, but damn.

Sansa only wants to be Lady of WF, she doesn't want the throne or Tyrion. let her stay in WF. The best solution IMO would be: 

1)Dany and Jon (no dragons) rule together as monarchs but with a council of seven giving all the kingdoms some form of independence but under their supervision. 

2) Jon and Dany (with Drogon) set up a council of seven and give each kingdom their independence (breaking the wheel) and they fly to an unknown place where they can be happy ever after) 

Both of these solutions would imply relinquishing power which IMO Jon will be happy to do but not Daenerys. What would be the purpose of going thru this much war and deaths if at the end there would be one ruler for the IT. Nothing would have changed. Somehow I always thought that the end of the series would be a change from monarchic ways to more democratic ones. 

[Drogo]

The Targaryen Theme has to be one of the most beautiful and haunting pieces of music I've ever heard. 

[Minneapple]

3 minutes ago, Hiacios said:

Oh, Dany more than deserves it, she is the rightful ruler. 

Why?

[sistermagpie]

2 minutes ago, Leroux said:

That has always been my major issue with Daenerys, her little willingness and desire to learn, for all claims that the IT is her destiny, she is going there very ill-prepared to be the queen that the people need, she hardly listens to her advisors and then when it doesn't go her way she blames them. She should have given her soldiers time to recover, recruit more men from the Vale, Dorne, and Highgarden and overpower their numbers. 

Especially after the way she felt at the celebration, like something of an outsider. She herself wants to be a ruler the way people were acting like Jon would be.

2 minutes ago, LanceM said:

No I'd say she would be using extreme violence to defeat evil, which sadly has to be done at times.

But aren't we talking about burning all the people around by torching the whole city? That's torching a lot of people to get the evil of that one person. She wants to be a ruler the people see as protecting them. Burning everything would make them fear her.

2 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

And one more thing, what does Sansa think will happen to the North if Cersei defeats Dany? Will Cersei let the rebellious Northerners remain independent? Will she let the Starks keep Winterfell and let Sansa keep her head? Not likely. If she has to accept a southern Queen, at least Dany has shown that she gives a damn and actually has a connection with Jon. It’s in Sansa’s interest to see Cersei deposed and a friendly Queen in KL. 

Presumably Sansa would react to Cersei the same way the North was already reacting to her--they wanted independence. She isn't against Dany being queen in the south, she just wants her to also give the North independence.

[MarySNJ]

19 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Sam shouldn't even be alive...he's not homicidal and evil, just weak. So Sam, who has literally done nothing but ride to town with dividing news and be a BFF gets the wife and happy ending, and Greyworm who has been tortured all his life and turned into a weapon does not?!   O.k....I get everyone will not get a happy ending, but he certainly earned one.

You’re not wrong. But I was simply responding the the OP that Cersei and Euron are not the only couple with a strong relationship.

And on that note, did anyone else notice how Cersei sort of cringed when Euron was moving in to get close to her in that one scene, like he repulsed her? It was very subtle but I got the real impression she despises him but will lie to  keep him on her side. 

[JennyMominFL]

2 minutes ago, Hiacios said:

She won't, but Jon, Arya, and Cersei will. You can bet on it.

I would not be surprised if Jon dies too. I dont think Arya will

[Hiacios]

I said before I

3 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Why?

She is a true Targaryen. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Hiacios

[Brn2bwild]

42 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Why wont anyone just say "hey Jon and Dany, you are both clearly like each other, arent too upset by the incest thing, have temperaments that balance each other, and between the two of you have a massive ass army and tons of loyal advisers and people to follow you, and both have claims, so maybe you should, gee I dont know, get married and rule as co rulers!?! Its not that complicated guys! Just make another stupid uncomfortable chair and stick it next to the other one, anything to end this game of musical chairs from Hell!!!"?!?

Davros, we need you and your common sense right the fuck now! 

B-but, Dany's too strong for Jon, says "hardly knows either of them" Varys.

[Vella]

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't know.  I think Jon has too much Ned in him and trusts people.  You would think he could trust his family and he could trust Arya and Bran.

But, Sansa has been undermining him from the start.  After the BOTB, there were 2 people in the room not standing and shouting "The King in the North!", Littlefinger and Sansa, who after giving a fake half smile to Jon, gave a look to Littlefinger that reminded me of the look Michael Corleone gave to Al Neri, while he hugged Fredo when he hugged him at their mother's wake.

Sansa has never cared about any of her family members.  They are merely either helpful to her or in her way.

I don't think so. I think Sansa is flat out done being ruled by an outsider. To her, Jon is family, she'll bend the knee to him, as will other Northerners, but they are DONE letting outsiders rule them.

Dany was right. All this does is sow discontent and division. Why does he contribute to it? Is it because that perhaps he DOES want something for himself?

He knows his rightful name, he knows he's the rightful heir. I think that knowledge changed him in ways that he could ignore before "I don't want to rule" but is finding harder now.

Look at how Gendry physically changed when Dany legitimized him, gave him the Baratheon name and Storm's End. The effect of being given something you didn't know you wanted until it was in your hands. It's a powerful thing, especially when someone else has something that is rightfully YOURS.

I think Jon is the same. He might be fighting it and trying to deny it, but I think he told Sansa precisely because he does want the news out. And he knew of Sansa and Arya that Sansa would spill before the sun set.

I just want the show to stop dicking around and admit it.

[Hiacios]

1 minute ago, JennyMominFL said:

I would not be surprised if Jon dies too. I dont think Arya will

Then you forgot about the faceless men to which Arya broke their rules in killing people on her list.

[jade.black]

I'm reposting my thoughts from the book thread because I'm just so annoyed with how poorly written this episode was and how much I feel half these characters have fallen apart:

This is the first episode I've been intensely disappointed in. Where to even start?!

The Jaime and Brienne scene felt like fan fiction.

I've long been a shipper of Gendry/Arya, but him declaring his love felt way too sudden and soon.

Tyrion is being written like a much less intelligent character than he is.

Cersei would have taken out Dany and her whole crew right then and there. Since when does she fight fair? What was the point of letting them walk away? God, that was ridiculous.

They couldn't be bothered to CGI Jon hugging or petting Ghost goodbye? His loyal direwolf for years? Really? Cool, just drop him off at the Wildling Shelter and be on your way, Jon, you dick.

Sam doesn't deserve a happy ending after his performance last week. DOLOROUS EDD DIED BECAUSE OF YOU.

How did Dany know immediately that Missandei was captured? How did Cersei know Missandei meant anything?

They offered no explanation of how Arya managed the Night King sneak attack nor did they show anyone speaking to her about her monumental feat face to face.

I never thought I'd say this, honestly, but as of this week I'm firmly on Team Dany. I don't even care for Dany, but this writing sucks.

The only good: Jaime heading back to Cersei adds some much needed realism to what's turned into a black and white "good vs evil" ending. If this turns into a double double-cross and he betrays Cersei for Brienne and co, it will be so cliche it'll hurt.

I'd also like to add, remember the slow game that was played through the first few seasons?! Quiet alliances and plotting and networking? It was subtle and interesting and the big moments felt earned. This has been so rushed and Dany hasn't even been a part of that game in Westeros. Maybe that's intentional since she is supposed to come across as an outsider, but even the original game players seem like they've gotten dumb and careless in these late seasons.

[tennisgurl]

Guys, I am just really sad about Missandei. I can be all "such and such was right and such and such is an idiot" later, I am just super sad. Not only did Missandei die, she died as one of the only really decent people left on this show, who just wanted to go back to her nice island home to be with Grey Worm, and now she cant even have that, because she was cruelly executed by some asshole on a power trip all so that her bestie/queen can pushed further towards the edge. 

She and Grey Worm deserved better. 

[UNOSEZ]

50 minutes ago, Jenesis said:

Very quick comment right now.

Am I going crazy? Why does Dany and everyone act like her helping against the NK is some favor? If she wants people to bow, she needs to protect them.

Thank you.. I've been reading posts like the north would be dead if it wasn't for Dany... Like the wildlings and northern weren't fighting and dying too.. And if she went and subjugated KL while the north had to fight the NK... Everyone would die because they wouldn't have the tools to kill the wights or the NK... After he was done decimating the North

[Bryce Lynch]

31 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Sam shouldn't even be alive...he's not homicidal and evil, just weak. So Sam, who has literally done nothing but ride to town with dividing news and be a BFF gets the wife and happy ending, and Greyworm who has been tortured all his life and turned into a weapon does not?!   O.k....I get everyone will not get a happy ending, but he certainly earned one.

Huh?  Sam:

*Saved Jon from being executed as a deserter, by getting the NW brothers to go after Jon.

* Was the first to kill a White Walker

* Discovered that dragon glass kills White Walkers.

* Saved and protected Gilly and her baby.  

* Discovered that there were huge deposits of dragon glass under Dragonstone.

* Killed Thenns...well Thenn anyway.

* Cured Ser Jorah of grayscale.

* Gave Ser Jorah the sword he used to kill numerous wights and save Daenerys.

* Killed several wights at Winterfell.

Sam can be useless at times.  But, without him, it would be the Night King's army laying siege to King's Landing.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Bryce Lynch

[Minneapple]

3 minutes ago, Hiacios said:

I said before I

She is a true Targaryen. 

So?

I must have missed the part where the iron throne had "Targaryens only" inscribed on it.

[QuantumMechanic]

4 minutes ago, Hiacios said:

I said before I

She a true Targaryen. 

As is Jon, since Rheagar and Lyanna got married before Jon was born.

[ulkis]

2 hours ago, Leroux said:

What is perplexing about this rightful heir to the IT to me is that not for one second did it cross Daenerys mind the idea of asking Jon to rule with her, to make him understand that they will be stronger together as co-rulers. A marriage of equals would be the best but that is obviously not what she wants, she wants him to not ever say a word and act just like her consort. 

Why? 

Why she is so hell-bent on being the only ruler? Jon definitely will let her do all the ruling and only make her consider her most drastic decisions. I am sure she loves him and wants to marry him but she doesn't want to share power with him? 

Varys and Dany said it. He could say "this is my queen/I bend the knee" a billion times but people would still look to him, because he was raised in Westeros, because he's a man, because he has the better claim, even if they were married.

Dany restrained herself from burning Euron and the ships, so it shows she does have self-control.

It's bittersweet, but I thought they did well with Jaime and Brienne.

Edited May 6, 2019 by ulkis

[JennyMominFL]

6 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

So?

I must have missed the part where the iron throne had "Targaryens only" inscribed on it.

I dont even care about the throne. I just want it gone. It seems to corrupt everyone involved in it. Im tired of the who is the better absolute monarch game.  Sure Dany or Jon would be better than  Cersie, but at the end of they day its just another authoritarian regime by people who think god/bloodline makes thm special. I dint hate Dany and I dont really want her to die, but it seems the only path to the end of this damned bloody throne.

Edited May 6, 2019 by JennyMominFL