S11.E07: It's Kind of a Phone-y Story

[QuinnM]

19 minutes ago, sashayshante said:

As for he money he's getting, he earned every penny of that. Bethany is abusive.  Like any spouse of an abuser, Jason was paid for the toll that relationship took on him.

Well that goes against the facts.  He was arrested for abuse. Spent a year on a restraining order and court ordered anger management.  He tried unsuccessfully to get spousal support, half the apartment and half the Skinny Girl money.  He spent 4 years fighting a prenup.  The trust documents were declared fraudulent.  Most recently the court appointed shrink called Bethenny controlling but willing to compromise and Jason acted out of anger and was unwilling to compromise.

Jason just wanted the money and is really pissed off that he didn’t get it.

[sashayshante]

14 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

 He was arrested for abuse.

Given that his accuser was a woman currently using a dead man as fodder for a reality show, I'd say there's a really strong likelihood that accusation was made to build a defense.

[LilaFowler]

He was literally arrested for stalking her.

[AnnA]

54 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

He was literally arrested for stalking her.

And she was granted a restraining order against him. 

[breezy424]

1 hour ago, LilaFowler said:

He was literally arrested for stalking her.

And being arrested for something does not mean you're guilty. 

He agreed to a plea deal involving an Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal. In accordance with the ACD, Hoppy must comply with Frankel's order of protection for six months and, if he obeys all laws, the case will be dismissed.

What's an ACD?

https://www.shalleyandmurray.com/adjournment-in-contemplation-of-dismissal

[Steph J]

6 hours ago, gundysgirl said:

Sorry if this has already been mentioned (just getting caught up on the season), but the thing that surprises me the most, since I wasn't aware the she was going to be on the show, is that Bravo wanted Barbara to have anything to do with the show. I remember a couple of seasons ago where she made such a fuss and filed that emergency order to stop them from showing the scene where she told Carole that she didn't think Lu should marry Tom. She claimed she wasn't aware that conversation was being picked up and thought it private. 

I can't remember whether it was on this board or another one, but I've read speculation that her presence this season is part of some sort of settlement over that lawsuit.  I'm not sure whether that's plausible, since the suit was in 2017 and my understanding is that it was thrown out by a judge (making settlement unnecessary), but it would go a ways to explaining some of hostility that the cast obviously feels for her (and which seems to go somewhat beyond the usual "newby" hazing).

[ShawnaLanne]

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

Ummm, if you're not, I'd be happy to...

I'm thinking since Jill brought her BOYFRIEND to her HUSBAND'S FUNERAL, that Jill and Dennis we're done.

I'm tired of the B is a whore thing. She was in a complicated relationship, with a complicated man. Actually I'm just tired of reading people call women whores period. 

After seven years my ex and I are finally getting a divorce. I haven't dated regularly, he has, I don't feel betrayed. He's now with a woman who cares that he is married, and I want to set up terms in our divorce so random chick can't make decisions about my kid, and keep my child support as is 

I FF'd through Lu's talk with Tinsley. Given her record this year I was afraid it would be awful.

Edited April 21, 2019 by ShawnaLanne

[Almost 3000]

16 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I have to say I love Bethenny and always will, BUT, I don’t think Jason was a bad guy at all.  People hate him, blah blah, but we heard her side and never his.  I don’t blame him one bit for fighting for that kid, the apartment, etc.  She duped him into marriage and was hard to live with.  The parents were wonderful to her but she got tired of them and their town in Pa.  Regarding that whole marriage tabacle, I’m team Jason all the way.  Just my opinion, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.  Happy Easter.  P.S.  I hope he writes a book someday.

15 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

I have to admit, whenever someone tells me about a bad marriage, I always side with the wife. Always. Blindly, unconditionally, to a fault, possibly. Frankel and Hoppy? I am firmly on Team Hoppy.

Frankel is the definition of a narcissist.  She is repeating all the mistakes she constantly complains Bernadette made.

Frankel has shown us who she is. 

Let’s believe her. 

10 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

And people wonder why Jason, the concerned Father keeps an eye on Bryn every second of the day and is constantly in court fighting to keep her safe.  He also wants her to know her grandparents which is very important to a child, yet people are even criticizing these nice people.  He wants some stability for his daughter the old fashioned way.  Besides parents, what’s better than two loving grandparents?  It makes me sick how he is the bad guy when he goes up to the school.  I don’t blame him for getting every penny he can get for all the aggravation  he has been thru and a phony “I love you every minute marriage.

8 hours ago, ChitChat said:

What little I remember from her show was that he was very supportive while she was getting her brand off the ground.  I can remember when she made the million/multi-million(?) deal, and I believe she said something about "their" money,  and he said something like it wasn't his money, but hers.  He seemed proud of her accomplishment.  He didn't appear to be in the relationship for the money.   Of course after everything he's been through with her, I have no problem with him getting something out of that disaster of a marriage.  I don't know how he lasted as long as he did living with her.  I don't blame him one bit for trying to protect their daughter.  I've seen enough of Bethenny on this show to see that there'd better be some third party involved to make sure that Bryn makes it through her childhood without being completely warped by the experience.  I'd be nuts from the non-stop chatter alone.

7 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Correct, and I agree with everything you just said.  She is witty and funny and is a hoot to watch, but according to her books that I have read and what I have seen on t.v., she cannot keep a relationship with a man and dumps them quickly.  In this instance, she has Brynn which makes things more complicated.  Jason was not the problem.  He was the victim.

7 hours ago, sashayshante said:

Jason likely was contractually obligated (and compensated for) appearing on that show.Not to mention, a sales rep can do a lot if their business from home. I wouldn't be surprised if his company had him take a hiatus for the sake of the brand's reputation.  Bethenny's previous boyfriend from RHONY was fired from his job for his participation on the show.

As for he money he's getting, he earned every penny of that. Bethany is abusive.  Like any spouse of an abuser, Jason was paid for the toll that relationship took on him. Just because he's a man doesn't mean he wasn't abused. The days of husbands/fathers being the breadwinner died around the crash of 2008. Bethany was making good bank around the time the show aired. Maybe Jason preferred to be home with his child while camera crews and other randoms traipsed through their home.

7 hours ago, AnnA said:

Jason wasn't paid for the toll that any alleged "abuse" took on him.

Jason was paid because of the divorce laws in the state of New York regarding marital assets. 

I've never thought Jason was a bad guy. In over his head, yes. I'm glad there are posters who are mentioning the other side. I'm tired of poor abused B.

[sashayshante]

You can't ignore the fact that Bethenny can not maintain a relationship with anyone, male or female. You also can't ignore that anyone who gets involved with her - in one way or another - suffers. Jill got the boot; her boyfriend got fired; Jason's life is turned upside down. Dennis had his own issues, undoubtedly compounded by Bethanny's damage. At the very least, you can't deny that drama and conflict are a constant part of her day to day life. There's nothing healthy or normal about that. Every relationship she has is steeped in drama, and not just the manufactured for TV kind. That's why I take nothing about her contentious divorce at face value.

[Otherkate]

6 hours ago, ShawnaLanne said:

I'm thinking since Jill brought her BOYFRIEND to her HUSBAND'S FUNERAL, that Jill and Dennis we're done.

I'm tired of the B is a whore thing. She was in a complicated relationship, with a complicated man. Actually I'm just tired of reading people call women whores period. 

After seven years my ex and I are finally getting a divorce. I haven't dated regularly, he has, I don't feel betrayed. He's now with a woman who cares that he is married, and I want to set up terms in our divorce so random chick can't make decisions about my kid, and keep my child support as is 

I FF'd through Lu's talk with Tinsley. Given her record this year I was afraid it would be awful.

God, seriously. I've posted maybe a million times that my ex and I didn't get divorced for years for various reasons. We both dated. He became engaged to his now-wife while we were still not divorced. No one was mad. These things happen more and more often. I'm so sick of it being insinuated that she's some kind of harlot for being with a MARRIED MAN. His wife brought her boyfriend to the guy's funeral. Clearly they had both moved on.

[Adiba]

11 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Correct, and I agree with everything you just said.  She is witty and funny and is a hoot to watch, but according to her books that I have read and what I have seen on t.v., she cannot keep a relationship with a man and dumps them quickly.  In this instance, she has Brynn which makes things more complicated.  Jason was not the problem.  He was the victim.

I don't know if Jason was a victim or not-- relationships and divorce can be complicated--and Beth is definitely a complicated human being. And Jason allegedly went a little "cuckoo for cocoa puffs" during and after the divorce--so I'm not sure what the reality is/was.

As I posted before, I haven't really kept up with the show (but I seem to be getting sucked back in, lol), but Beth in the first few seasons referred to herself as the "runaway bride." She had been married for a short time, divorced, and according to her, engaged a couple of times after that (before Jason). So yes, I agree that she appears to have trouble with lasting relationships with men, unless something has changed recently.

Which is why I find Beth giving any kind of advice to Tinsley about the relationship with Scott laughable.

[Gem 10]

10 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

He was literally arrested for stalking her.

She’s lucky that’s all he was arrested for.  He was SCREWED from day one and was now fighting for his daughter.  The money was retaliation on his part.  Where did the great love she was professing every minute go?  She has flitted from one guy to another.  That is her history in her book.  Jason was not going to take this divorce lightly.  He was made the fool and the only way to get satisfaction was money.  Plus, he was genuinely worried about his daughter, therefore keeping his eye on everything closely.  I know she’s a good Mother, but she flits from one guy to another.  The kid is probably very confused.  Therefore the court appointed therapy.  I would hate to see her get full custody.  She would be with a nanny all the time.

[TV Diva Queen]

On 4/19/2019 at 11:35 AM, AnnA said:

I love Bethenny too.   While her personal life is messy at best and a disaster at its worst, her advice is always solid.   I've never see her give bad advice regardless of the situation.    She doesn't shy away from difficult situations and can be extremely compassionate and caring when someone is in pain.    She struggled with how to tell LuAnn about Tom womanizing.   She comforted and cleaned up Dorinda's lipstick and spittle when she was drunk in Colombia.   Her friendship with Carole had fallen apart and yet she cared for her, even held her hair back while she threw up on the boat in rough seas.   Bethenny is smart, savvy, strong, beautiful, independent, successful, thin and rich so I'm not surprised that she's often criticized. 

This is perfect and exactly how I feel about B. I think it’s a certain demo that appreciates this. I’m going to generalize now, but I think you have to be from an overbearing ethic background to appreciate her, maybe even live in a big robust city too. I know people like B, I might even be her too (minus the millions of course). I love people like B, you know where you stand, there’s no gray area and if she see the good in you, she’s ride or die. Cross her and you’re done. 

[TV Diva Queen]

I’m not seeing Denise Richards being called a whore over in the BH page. She was living with a married man. She got married to him a week after his divorce from Nicole Sheridan was final. It happens. 

[Chit Chat]

11 minutes ago, TV Diva Queen said:

This is perfect and exactly how I feel about B. I think it’s a certain demo that appreciates this.

There are certain qualities that I do appreciate about Bethenny, but she's just too 'me, me, me' on a daily basis.  I can find good qualities in almost anybody, but that doesn't mean that I'd want to hang out with them or be best friends. I've had co-workers who were really nice, but their incessant chatter about their minute-by-minute goings on, etc., is just too tiring for me.  Those are people that I simply tolerate, but keep at arm's length.   

As a somewhat quiet person, her bull in the china shop personality is just too much for me, but I can appreciate those who like her for that.  Different personalities and all, and different tolerances for these sorts of things!  I don't like it when the forums come down to "this camp" or "that camp."  😉

[Mindthinkr]

2 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

  I don't like it when the forums come down to "this camp" or "that camp."

Neither do I.  Sometimes I can read the comments from both sides of an argument and like points from both. When things go south I enjoy seeing people use the option of “We can politely agree to disagree.” 

I only stay here. I’ve gone on Reddit, but didn’t like being attacked when others disagreed with my opinion. Overall I find these forums to be friendly, informative and polite. 

[Happy Camper]

Am I the only one that was kind of disgusted when Bethenny made the comment about the serving staff getting laid that night, even if they didn't want to? Did she really think she was funny?

If a man had made that statement he would be blasted.

How does she get away with that crap? 

[Gem 10]

6 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

There are certain qualities that I do appreciate about Bethenny, but she's just too 'me, me, me' on a daily basis.  I can find good qualities in almost anybody, but that doesn't mean that I'd want to hang out with them or be best friends. I've had co-workers who were really nice, but their incessant chatter about their minute-by-minute goings on, etc., is just too tiring for me.  Those are people that I simply tolerate, but keep at arm's length.   

As a somewhat quiet person, her bull in the china shop personality is just too much for me, but I can appreciate those who like her for that.  Different personalities and all, and different tolerances for these sorts of things!  I don't like it when the forums come down to "this camp" or "that camp."  😉

I agree.  Everyone has their own opinion, and that’s o.k.  Everything’s good.  We’re all here to enjoy.

[SuprSuprElevated]

13 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

Am I the only one that was kind of disgusted when Bethenny made the comment about the serving staff getting laid that night, even if they didn't want to? Did she really think she was funny?

If a man had made that statement he would be blasted.

How does she get away with that crap? 

Yes and it's child's play (if you'll forgive the expression), compared to the smut which spews from Sonja's pie hole.

[Gem 10]

47 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

I agree.  Everyone has their own opinion, and that’s o.k.  Everything’s good.  We’re all here to enjoy.

Opps .. wrong thread.  Good thing I don’t have to cook anymore.  That’s my daughters’ jobs,  I’m retired, lol.

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, Happy Camper said:

Am I the only one that was kind of disgusted when Bethenny made the comment about the serving staff getting laid that night, even if they didn't want to? Did she really think she was funny?

If a man had made that statement he would be blasted.

How does she get away with that crap? 

How about her saying “Sonja could stick the straw up her who-ha?  My husband gasped.  He has to watch as I watch the episodes about three times, lol.  It’s my favorite show no matter what.  Without Bethenny, I might not watch as it probably would be dull.  Look at OC and BH.  Downhill.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Gem 10

[hoodooznoodooz]

3 hours ago, Adiba said:

I don't know if Jason was a victim or not-- relationships and divorce can be complicated--and Beth is definitely a complicated human being. And Jason allegedly went a little "cuckoo for cocoa puffs" during and after the divorce--so I'm not sure what the reality is/was.

As I posted before, I haven't really kept up with the show (but I seem to be getting sucked back in, lol), but Beth in the first few seasons referred to herself as the "runaway bride." She had been married for a short time, divorced, and according to her, engaged a couple of times after that (before Jason). So yes, I agree that she appears to have trouble with lasting relationships with men, unless something has changed recently.

Which is why I find Beth giving any kind of advice to Tinsley about the relationship with Scott laughable.

Yes. It’s interesting how Beth TOLD us that she was a Runaway Bride. 

But we SAW how Jason 1.0 reacted to her suggesting they start living together. 

[sasha206]

2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

This is perfect and exactly how I feel about B. I think it’s a certain demo that appreciates this. I’m going to generalize now, but I think you have to be from an overbearing ethic background to appreciate her, maybe even live in a big robust city too. I know people like B, I might even be her too (minus the millions of course). I love people like B, you know where you stand, there’s no gray area and if she see the good in you, she’s ride or die. Cross her and you’re done. 

I didn't come from an overbearing family nor live in a big city, but I liked B when she had some humility in the first three seasons of RHONY.  I think money and fame changed her personality and made her far more neurotic and distrustful of everyone around her.  I admire her philanthropic ventures, I admire her success, her good taste, her real estate, her wardrobe.  I think she's morphed into a physically beautiful woman with the work she's had done.  However, I think her personality has morphed into the most narcissistic one and her grieving of Dennis put that brightly on display.  Her grief seems to be one designed to let the world know that this dead man was so in love with her, he possibly OD'd because of it.  That speculation should never have made the airways out of respect for those that loved him.   

I realize there are people that love Beth and she can do no wrong to them.  But at least my dislike of her is rooted in her narcissism and her actions.  I find nothing appealing about a woman who is often vulgar when it is totally unnecessary, who is 40 something cracks about age (cobweb vaginas when announcing she needs a tampon), yelling "whore" at women, making public accusations that a cast member does coke (remember that goodie about Dorinda - doesn't seem "ride or die" to me), then makes a storyline out of a dead boyfriend where she tells us he was soooooooo in love with her he may have killed himself because of it and while he was "my person" I couldn't wait to get off the train even though I may or may not have been engaged.  In addition, her public non-show actions have turned me off.  LIke tweeting about non-English speaking Kmart workers and then her horrible advice to black women in business (find a white guy as the face of their companies), hurling drinks at a woman whose crime was being in front of her at at a concert.   All of the above doesn't negate the good she has done with her philanthropic efforts, but it's hard for me to like the person she has now become and I find the speculation about why Dennis died really disturbing.  It's one thing to think it, it's a completely different thing to voice your speculation when there's a family out there that would be even more devastated thinking it was a purposeful act because he loved Beth more than he loved life.

Edited April 21, 2019 by sasha206

[OnceSane]

Back on topic, please. 

If it didn't happen in the episode, it is off-topic.  This includes Bethenney's divorce/custody proceedings, personal anecdotes and previous seasons' talk.

[Starlight925]

B's narcissism really shouted out at us in this particular episode.

Dennis left her a note telling her how spectacular she was, at the hotel.

Her ex-boyfriend happened to be at her party (um, she hired his company), and she just had to make sure we all knew how in love he was with her, and how she left him for Dennis, presumably breaking his heart.

She then flashed her enormous engagement ring on camera while telling us about how great her current Boston relationship is going.

3 stories about 3 guys, all who are so "in love" with her.

Narcissism much, B.?

[sasha206]

9 minutes ago, Sterling said:

B's narcissism really shouted out at us in this particular episode.

Dennis left her a note telling her how spectacular she was, at the hotel.

Her ex-boyfriend happened to be at her party (um, she hired his company), and she just had to make sure we all knew how in love he was with her, and how she left him for Dennis, presumably breaking his heart.

She then flashed her enormous engagement ring on camera while telling us about how great her current Boston relationship is going.

3 stories about 3 guys, all who are so "in love" with her.

Narcissism much, B.?

EXACTLY.  

That's what is turning me off about her.  And she did that last year too with Red Scarf Guy.  Couldn't stand that Carole had a date with him.  Either her self-esteem is at all all time low or an unwarranted all time high.

[ghoulina]

On 4/19/2019 at 1:29 PM, biakbiak said:

Again I don’t find it unbelievable that he would ask her to marry him but she has now changed it that he might have killed himself because he couldn’t marry her completely different scenarios.

Yes, but didn't Bethenny say she didn't accept the proposal? Not that she firmly turned him down. But I thought she relayed that she told Dennis they had some things to work out before they could get married. I can understand if she is now worrying that her stance got him so upset that he was in a really bad place, overusing, etc. 

I have not seen any inconsistencies in her stories. But the relationship WAS very complicated, which can cause confusion. 

[izabella]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

But I thought she relayed that she told Dennis they had some things to work out before they could get married.

Things like him actually filing for divorce at some point?  Or their own relationship dynamics?

[Otherkate]

I do agree that none of these women should be giving Tinsley general relationship advice, and especially not Beth who I also agree has not managed to have one healthy relationship with a man. 

That said, if my friend was talking about her boyfriend the way that Tins talks about Scott, I would tell her that yes her needs matter and yes please get the fuck out of that relationship asap.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Otherkate

[film noire]

4 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Yes, but didn't Bethenny say she didn't accept the proposal? Not that she firmly turned him down. But I thought she relayed that she told Dennis they had some things to work out before they could get married. 

She testified (in court) that even though she didn't give him a yes or a no, she considered herself "sorta engaged" to Shields.

Which is at odds with what she said to Dorinda on RHoNY: "I loved him so much and we were family and my daughter was so close to him...He proposed on April 25… Yeah, I kept it to myself because I didn't want another circus in my life...I didn’t tell anybody that,” Frankel told Medley, 54, before showing her the massive ring. “We had our own private engagement and our own private, like, ‘Oh my God, we’re going to do this,” Frankel said.."

https://people.com/tv/dennis-shields-gave-bethenny-frankel-daughter-a-ring-while-proposing/

Seems to me she and Shields were blissfully engaged when she thought it would serve her profile as the grieving Widow Fiancee, and now, suddenly, their engagement is being lost in buzzwords like "complicated" - funny how the only previous complication was keeping it secret to avoid a circus (which, please: as if shying away from the circus ever stopped her from doing anything -- be it peeing on a stick, wearing Dennis' engagement ring to custody court last year, or waving around a spectral love note saying she looks spectacular.)

Be great if just once - in the face of Frankel donning her blessed Mantilla of Lady Wisdom and opining  about life and men and healthy relationships  - somebody stopped her short by throwing her own history back at her.  (I think Tinsley, oddly, has the potential to be that woman. She made her way back from Fanjul, a mug shot - and Dale! - has humour, self-awareness, and maybe a hidden backbone. She no hind teat ; )

eta: moved info about Bethenny's custody testimony to her thread, per Once Sane's comment.

Edited April 21, 2019 by film noire

[IKnowRight]

On 4/18/2019 at 4:51 PM, Mindthinkr said:

I did get a laugh at the florists face when Ro and Sonja were leaving. She was rolling her eyes and so over them and their antics. 

Ha, they were being ridiculous in that store!  Never change ladies!

As someone who lives in NYC part time, I made a mental note of the name of the store, thinking how pretty!  However, because the lady was rolling her eyes on national television, I would never go in that store.  Regardless of their poor behavior, I don’t respect businesses that would react like that to paying customers.  So unprofessional!  But...that’s just me!

[AnnA]

13 minutes ago, IKnowRight said:

Ha, they were being ridiculous in that store!  Never change ladies!

As someone who lives in NYC part time, I made a mental note of the name of the store, thinking how pretty!  However, because the lady was rolling her eyes on national television, I would never go in that store.  Regardless of their poor behavior, I don’t respect businesses that would react like that to paying customers.  So unprofessional!  But...that’s just me!

Production probably told the sales clerk to roll her eyes.   Then again, maybe she was a Bravo PA and not really a sales clerk at all.

Edited April 22, 2019 by AnnA

[Gem 10]

34 minutes ago, IKnowRight said:

Ha, they were being ridiculous in that store!  Never change ladies!

As someone who lives in NYC part time, I made a mental note of the name of the store, thinking how pretty!  However, because the lady was rolling her eyes on national television, I would never go in that store.  Regardless of their poor behavior, I don’t respect businesses that would react like that to paying customers.  So unprofessional!  But...that’s just me!

Sonja and Ramoaner are Lucy and Ethel.  They belong together always.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

I'm so late to the party on this but Bethenny did something in this ep, w  this new Boston guy glow that she did w Dennis.

Remember the ep where Dennis came to the dinner party on the hideous Gordon Gartrell sweater? Bethenny was bragging to him about the howifes saying something aside to him like this is my life arent they crazy? I paraphrase.

Anyway in THIS ep, when she videotaped the after hours hijinks I really feel like it was flexing and showing off for her new Boston man. Same.  

Runz buddy! 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Alonzo Mosely FBI

[smores]

On 4/17/2019 at 9:35 PM, LilaFowler said:

Scott has appeared on the show many times. He has sent a funeral arrangement to Colombia when he knew it would be filmed. He did commercials with some of the Housewives. NOW he's shy about being on the show? Something doesn't smell right over there.

They do always seem to break up until the show is back on, so it kind of seems like maybe he just uses Tinsley for the publicity? 

On 4/17/2019 at 11:12 PM, Bronzedog said:

I believe in signs from the deceased too, so, I don’t have a problem with that but I do have a problem with Ramona and the dog only has another year left statement.  That was horrible.  But then, Carole only had a few good summers left and she’s gone, so there’s that.

There's the answer! Ramona can pass Coco off to Carole and just get a new dog.  Carole and Coco can live out their remaining summer together and then . . . go into the harsh winter of oblivion together?

On 4/18/2019 at 1:56 PM, LibertarianSlut said:

I've posted this before, but I dislike Sonja strongly.  She may not have a mean bone in her body, but I just don't trust people that are not in touch with reality.  The way she burst in that salon and just exclaimed to Luann that Bethenny was talking about her, with no couth, no nuance, was jarring and ugly.  That level of unpredictability prevents her from being harmless IMO.

I would argue that she does.  Sonja can be charming and when she's not drinking a ton, she can be a great buffer person in a social situation.  She was awesome in the whole Scary Island situation, she does really well with managing Ramona and she was great in the Hamptons with Dorinda and Ramona.  If people are acting up and saying horrible stuff, she is quick and witty and is able to turn it into a quip and laugh at herself and make the situation light.  But, the flip side is that she also has no qualms about the fraud she committed and she will periodically do shit like she did with Luann and stir shit about the Bethenny situation.  Arguably, she was just trying to point out to Lu that she really needs to dial back her attitude because she's coming across like an asshole, but, she still did it in a way that basically outed other people instead of just saying "You know, Lu, you came across pretty harsh towards Bethenny the other day and I was kind of surprised after how much she had done for you this summer"

On 4/18/2019 at 2:59 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

I was really wondering when Tins was telling Lu how she felt about her dad while growing up, if Lu wonders if that is how her children feel about her? Not only with regards to her drinking, but I also think Lu was of the mind that it was up to the help to raise her kids. Though it likely didn't enter her head. In my experience with narcissists, they are spectacularly unaware of their narcissism. 

Not a chance that it occurred to her.  Lu's kids wouldn't have those thoughts about Lu because Lu isn't an alcoholic! She's just playing one on tv so she can get probation! And then she's going to go to some sort of charity, contaminate their food, tell a little girl she's fat, and call it community service!

On 4/18/2019 at 3:51 PM, Mindthinkr said:

Did Bethenny get her own floral arrangements for the table?  Ramona kept pointing to ones that had a large looped over banana leaf with some orchids. The ones on her table seemed to have roses and it looked much busier than the ikebana ones in the shop. 

I did get a laugh at the florists face when Ro and Sonja were leaving. She was rolling her eyes and so over them and their antics. 

The whole time this was going on, I was like, wouldn't Bethenny have her own floral arrangements?  Who (unless asked to), just goes and shows up with centerpieces for someone else's dinner party? Bringing flowers for your host I get, but here, I brought you a centerpiece, rearrange your table to make it fit? That just struck me as really strange.  Like Bethenny wouldn't have actually thought of that part on her own already.

On 4/19/2019 at 1:03 PM, ghoulina said:

Dennis wouldn't be the first man to propose to one woman while still legally married to another. I don't think it's that unbelievable. 

No one is worked up about Denise Richards who was living with her now husband while he was married to Nicolette Sheridan.  I'm guessing they had discussed marriage while he was still married, given that they got married about 2 weeks after his divorce was final.

[biakbiak]

44 minutes ago, smores said:

They do always seem to break up until the show is back on, so it kind of seems like maybe he just uses Tinsley for the publicity? 

In real time they seem to break up during filming/airing and get back together when  her profile has lowered. 

[film noire]

On 4/21/2019 at 1:08 AM, ShawnaLanne said:

I'm tired of the B is a whore thing. 

I don't think she's a whore -- sex workers (likely party of one, here) provide an aboveboard service with no pretense of dating to find love or marriage -- that's nothing like Frankel, who told ABC news (so much for not liking the circus!) that pre-RHoNY, she was so broke she was dating only rich guys because they would give her gifts to pay her rent.   I'll take a working girl any day over that kind of underhanded emotional usury.

Edited April 22, 2019 by film noire

[film noire]

18 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

 I’m going to generalize now, but I think you have to be from an overbearing ethic background to appreciate her, maybe even live in a big robust city too. 

I'm from an Irish Catholic tribe, have lived in several large cities, and my profound dislike of Frankel has nothing do with her background, and everything to do with her emotional bruality. That awful woman could talk about driving Dennis to suicide in the patrician tones of a Grace Kelly, and my skin would still crawl.  

Edited April 22, 2019 by film noire

[Higgins]

8 hours ago, smores said:

They do always seem to break up until the show is back on, so it kind of seems like maybe he just uses Tinsley for the publicity? 

There's the answer! Ramona can pass Coco off to Carole and just get a new dog.  Carole and Coco can live out their remaining summer together and then . . . go into the harsh winter of oblivion together?

I would argue that she does.  Sonja can be charming and when she's not drinking a ton, she can be a great buffer person in a social situation.  She was awesome in the whole Scary Island situation, she does really well with managing Ramona and she was great in the Hamptons with Dorinda and Ramona.  If people are acting up and saying horrible stuff, she is quick and witty and is able to turn it into a quip and laugh at herself and make the situation light.  But, the flip side is that she also has no qualms about the fraud she committed and she will periodically do shit like she did with Luann and stir shit about the Bethenny situation.  Arguably, she was just trying to point out to Lu that she really needs to dial back her attitude because she's coming across like an asshole, but, she still did it in a way that basically outed other people instead of just saying "You know, Lu, you came across pretty harsh towards Bethenny the other day and I was kind of surprised after how much she had done for you this summer"

Not a chance that it occurred to her.  Lu's kids wouldn't have those thoughts about Lu because Lu isn't an alcoholic! She's just playing one on tv so she can get probation! And then she's going to go to some sort of charity, contaminate their food, tell a little girl she's fat, and call it community service!

The whole time this was going on, I was like, wouldn't Bethenny have her own floral arrangements?  Who (unless asked to), just goes and shows up with centerpieces for someone else's dinner party? Bringing flowers for your host I get, but here, I brought you a centerpiece, rearrange your table to make it fit? That just struck me as really strange.  Like Bethenny wouldn't have actually thought of that part on her own already.

No one is worked up about Denise Richards who was living with her now husband while he was married to Nicolette Sheridan.  I'm guessing they had discussed marriage while he was still married, given that they got married about 2 weeks after his divorce was final.

What's wrong with acknowledging that Coco is close to the end of her 

natural lifespan? 

[sasha206]

10 hours ago, smores said:

No one is worked up about Denise Richards who was living with her now husband while he was married to Nicolette Sheridan.  I'm guessing they had discussed marriage while he was still married, given that they got married about 2 weeks after his divorce was final.

I think the problem with Beth for me is not that she was dating a technically married man.  Once two people decide their marriage is over, I couldn't give two fucks about when they start dating other people.

But with Beth, it is the actual question itself:  Was she engaged or not?  She had a ring apparently.  She talks about the engagement.  Then she talks about seeing other people before his death?  I mean she talks about dating that guy Russ "seriously" last summer.

The whole engagement talk to me reads like Beth wants everyone to think this man was desperately in love with her, gave her a big rock, and she either accepted it or didn't fully accept it.  Now that he's dead, she's waxing on about this engagement and speculating that not being able to have her could be the reason he is now dead.  

My other problem is if he never even started the divorce process, how committed would have actually have been with an engagement?  If the wheels are in motion and there was an actual legal separation (was there?) it makes a little more sense that he put a ring on it.  But if I were dating a man whose marriage was over and he hadn't even started taking the steps to get a divorce, for whatever reason, I would not be accepting an engagement ring and I'd be extremely embarrassed to announce to the world that I am engaged if he can't even be bothered to start the divorce proceedings!  

Edited April 22, 2019 by sasha206

[Happy Camper]

2 hours ago, Higgins said:

What's wrong with acknowledging that Coco is close to the end of her 

natural lifespan? 

I think that it's sweet that Ramona doesn't want to leave Coco at home and is taking her along wherever she goes. She seems to really care about that pup.

Bethenny also loves her pups. 

[gundysgirl]

25 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I think the problem with Beth for me is not that she was dating a technically married man.  Once two people decide their marriage is over, I couldn't give two fucks about when they start dating other people.

But with Beth, it is the actual question itself:  Was she engaged or not?  She had a ring apparently.  She talks about the engagement.  Then she talks about seeing other people before his death?  I mean she talks about dating that guy Russ "seriously" last summer.

The whole engagement talk to me reads like Beth wants everyone to think this man was desperately in love with her, gave her a big rock, and she either accepted it or didn't fully accept it.  Now that he's dead, she's waxing on about this engagement and speculating that not being able to have her could be the reason he is now dead.  

My other problem is if he never even started the divorce process, how committed would have actually have been with an engagement?  If the wheels are in motion and there was an actual legal separation (was there?) it makes a little more sense that he put a ring on it.  But if I were dating a man whose marriage was over and he hadn't even started taking the steps to get a divorce, for whatever reason, I would not be accepting an engagement ring and I'd be extremely embarrassed to announce to the world that I am engaged if he can't even be bothered to start the divorce proceedings!  

I think it is all very complex with Dennis and Bethenny. It sounds like he wanted to marry her early on in the relationship (I think she mentioned that a couple of seasons ago). It also sounds like it was very complex with Dennis and his wife. Bethenny said that they kept the engagement secret and didn't tell anyone. It also sounds like they were on and off a lot as a couple, but stayed close as friends. From what I could gather, she told him not long before his death that it just wasn't working. But it also sounds like they had had the same conversation many times. Maybe she thought at some point it would work out.  

One thing I don't think is that she is making stuff up to make it appear he loved her more than he did. There are too many people who could out her on this. His kids, his family, his friends.  No one has disputed anything that Bethenny has said about his feelings towards her. And I cannot get past the fact that one of his kids called her immediately after his death, before even the press got news of it. That kid thought Bethenny important enough in his life that they gave her an early call about what had happened. You don't do that for someone you don't care about or believe the deceased didn't care about. 

[sasha206]

2 hours ago, gundysgirl said:

I think it is all very complex with Dennis and Bethenny. It sounds like he wanted to marry her early on in the relationship (I think she mentioned that a couple of seasons ago). It also sounds like it was very complex with Dennis and his wife. Bethenny said that they kept the engagement secret and didn't tell anyone. It also sounds like they were on and off a lot as a couple, but stayed close as friends. From what I could gather, she told him not long before his death that it just wasn't working. But it also sounds like they had had the same conversation many times. Maybe she thought at some point it would work out.  

One thing I don't think is that she is making stuff up to make it appear he loved her more than he did. There are too many people who could out her on this. His kids, his family, his friends.  No one has disputed anything that Bethenny has said about his feelings towards her. And I cannot get past the fact that one of his kids called her immediately after his death, before even the press got news of it. That kid thought Bethenny important enough in his life that they gave her an early call about what had happened. You don't do that for someone you don't care about or believe the deceased didn't care about. 

Good points.  Nevertheless, my problem with her is that the grief she is showing to the camera is clouded in "He loved me so much.  I broke his heart because he was sooooooo in love with me and bc of his great love, I hope his death didn't have something to do with me."   

He may have loved her quite a bit but I find it odd to grieve him that way.  I didn't grieve my late husband with "He loved me so much!  Look at this picture of him looking at me.  He was so in love..."  I mourn like most people that aren't complete narcissist do:  I loved HIM so much and I'm so sad that his life was cut short (his was from cancer).  

[AnnA]

2 hours ago, gundysgirl said:

I think it is all very complex with Dennis and Bethenny. It sounds like he wanted to marry her early on in the relationship (I think she mentioned that a couple of seasons ago). It also sounds like it was very complex with Dennis and his wife. Bethenny said that they kept the engagement secret and didn't tell anyone. It also sounds like they were on and off a lot as a couple, but stayed close as friends. From what I could gather, she told him not long before his death that it just wasn't working. But it also sounds like they had had the same conversation many times. Maybe she thought at some point it would work out.  

One thing I don't think is that she is making stuff up to make it appear he loved her more than he did. There are too many people who could out her on this. His kids, his family, his friends.  No one has disputed anything that Bethenny has said about his feelings towards her. And I cannot get past the fact that one of his kids called her immediately after his death, before even the press got news of it. That kid thought Bethenny important enough in his life that they gave her an early call about what had happened. You don't do that for someone you don't care about or believe the deceased didn't care about. 

I don't think she is making stuff up either.   Their relationship was intense but complicated.   We can't possibly know exactly what their feelings or intentions were.  If we dismiss Bethenny's narrative about her relationship with Dennis on the grounds that she has misrepresented the truth and/or lied in the past, we've done so based on unreliable sources.  All the HWs lie.  What they say on TV or to the media is intended to entertain and promote themselves, their brand or both. The show is a combination infomercial, bullshit and fantasy with a dash of reality.   From time to time a real life situation requires they react.  That's the dash of reality and a HW's response is unpredictable because they only live in the real world part-time. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

36 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Good points.  Nevertheless, my problem with her is that the grief she is showing to the camera is clouded in "He loved me so much.  I broke his heart because he was sooooooo in love with me and bc of his great love, I hope his death didn't have something to do with me."   

He may have loved her quite a bit but I find it odd to grieve him that way.  I didn't grieve my late husband with "He loved me so much!  Look at this picture of him looking at me.  He was so in love..."  I mourn like most people that aren't complete narcissist do:  I loved HIM so much and I'm so sad that his life was cut short (his was from cancer).  

OMG. Really. Look at the way he’s looking at me. That tells us so much about Frankel and her relationship with Dennis. 

[sasha206]

14 minutes ago, AnnA said:

I don't think she is making stuff up either.   Their relationship was intense but complicated.   We can't possibly know exactly what their feelings or intentions were.  If we dismiss Bethenny's narrative about her relationship with Dennis on the grounds that she has misrepresented the truth and/or lied in the past, we've done so based on unreliable sources.  All the HWs lie.  What they say on TV or to the media is intended to entertain and promote themselves, their brand or both. The show is a combination infomercial, bullshit and fantasy with a dash of reality.   From time to time a real life situation requires they react.  That's the dash of reality and a HW's response is unpredictable because they only live in the real world part-time. 

Going by what Bethenny said, I don't understand if they were engaged or not.  There's no "it's complicated" with engagements -- you either said yes, a no, or broke off an engagement.  Which is it in this case?  And from her own comments, she was in love with Russ -- the handsome guy on the show -- when Dennis swooped back in to reclaim his prize and then proposed.  So she went from being in love with someone to accepting an engagement to another?  Were they a couple when he passed?  If not, why is she still wearing an engagement ring while she's dating others?

I find her grief story line is extremely self-serving.  And again, very narcissistic.  I have never met anyone that lost someone close to them that talked about their passing in terms of how much the deceased loved me and although he was my person I just wasn't that into him but let me cry for the next several months bc I was the love of his life.

[ghoulina]

20 hours ago, izabella said:

Things like him actually filing for divorce at some point?  Or their own relationship dynamics?

I got the impression that it was all of the above. Obviously he needs to be legally divorced before they can marry. But I think even if he was, there were some thing that bothered her about their relationship. It was clearly quite turbulent. I think she loved him a lot, but wasn't sure if it was the right relationship to be in. 

[film noire]

8 hours ago, Higgins said:

What's wrong with acknowledging that Coco is close to the end of her natural lifespan? 

I think Ramona - for all her rough way with people's feelings and often outright dumb reactions - has a  pretty good handle on how fast time goes by, and the need to hold loved ones close while you have them.

2 hours ago, AnnA said:

If we dismiss Bethenny's narrative about her relationship with Dennis on the grounds that she has misrepresented the truth and/or lied in the past, we've done so based on unreliable sources.  

By that standard, Bethenny's sworn testimony is one of those unreliable sources. She discounted her own version of the relationship (We were engaged! He was family to Bryn! We didn't start a sexual relationship until 2016!) turned into Meh, sorta  engaged? and Bryn not being around Dennis much, and Frankel and Shields starting a "romantic and sexual relationship" in 2015 ("three to four years ago") when Dennis was still living with his wife and kid, not a year later in 2016, which was the timeline Frankel has been using since jump (presumably because a love affair begun a year afer a man leaves his wife, versus one begun a year before he leaves, is much more messy). I don't think lying under oath is outside the realm of possibility for Frankel (insisting she had no clue Dennis was on pills, for example, is hard for me to believe) but I figure if she's lying in court, she'd lie to make herself look better, not worse.

Quote

@sasha206  If the wheels are in motion and there was an actual legal separation (was there?) it makes a little more sense that he put a ring on it.  

No, nothing legal was in the works.  Jill Shields made a point of making that clear in her insta post about starting the Shields Foundation when she wrote "Memorialize my husband who I never legally separated/divorced" (and Sasha, you could give Frankel a real lesson in surviving, and then thriving.)

Edited April 22, 2019 by film noire

[sasha206]

11 minutes ago, film noire said:

I think Ramona - for all her rough way with people's feelings and often outright dumb reactions - has a  pretty good handle on how fast time goes by, and the need to hold loved ones close while you have them.

By that standard, Bethenny's sworn testimony is one of those unreliable sources. 

She discounted her own version of the relationship (We were engaged! He was family to Bryn! We didn't start a sexual relationship until 2016!) turned into Meh, sorta  engaged? and Bryn not being around Dennis much at all, and Frankel and Shields starting a "romantic and sexual relationship" in 2015 ("three to four years ago")  when Dennis was still living with his wife and kid, not a year later in 2016, which was the timeline Frankel has been giving out since jump (presumably because a love affair begun a year afer a man leaves his wife, versus one begun a year before he leaves, is much more messy). I don't think lying under oath is outside the realm of possibility for Frankel (insisting she had no clue Dennis was taking pills, for example, is hard for me to believe) but I figure if she's lying in court, she'd lie to make herself look better, not worse.

No, nothing legal was in the works.  Jill Shields made a point of making that very clear in her instagram post about starting the Shields Foundation (she wrote "Memorialize my husband who I never legally separated/divorced").

Sasha, you could give Frankel a lesson in surviving, and then thriving. 

Awwww, that made my day!  Grief is tough, but yes, surviving and then thriving!  There's a strange upside to widowhood which is being your own boss again.  I'm actually back with my high school crush (we broke up from July - Nov after dating for about 6 months) and then I had some fun with 37 year-old hockey crush who is now my great friend.  It's better than ever with high school crush!  But I don't plan on marriage again.  Why kill the romance?!  😉 

Edited April 22, 2019 by sasha206

[film noire]

1 hour ago, sasha206 said:

Awwww, that made my day!  Grief is tough, but yes, surviving and then thriving!  There's a strange upside to widowhood which is being your own boss again.  I'm actually back with my high school crush (we broke up from July - Nov after dating for about 6 months) and then I had some fun with 37 year-old hockey crush who is now my great friend.  It's better than ever with high school crush!  But I don't plan on marriage again.  Why kill the romance?!  😉 

I was wondering where Hockey Guy was in the picture - how great you've made the leap from romance to friends - and congrats on being with your high school crush! (That speaks to having excellent taste in men, early in life-- unlike me as a teenager - I'd likely run from my high school crush ; )

Edited April 22, 2019 by film noire