S15.E19: Silent All These Years

[GSMHvisitor]

32 minutes ago, readster said:

The problem was that Linc confessed to Alex that he did notice her ex was controlling and even saw bruises and being that he was study ortho he knew they weren't self inflicted. However his excuse was: "he was a well known doctor and I was afraid to say anything." Which Alex replied; "If it would have been me and I knew, I would have kicked his ass and not cared about the consequences." Which just painted Linc like a classic: "Don't ask, don't tell." It made things even more stupid because when it was all said and done, Jo's ex might have been a well known doctor, but apparently people knew he had a bad temper and was an asshole. Yet brushed it off as: "he's a doctor." 

That was not at all what happened. Link was in Jo's life when she met Paul, but he didn't know a thing about the abuse. He didn't like him and told Jo as much, but she wouldn't believe him and so he backed away eventually and accepted her choice. I doubt the abuse did even start while Jo was still in touch with Link.

[snarky snarkerson]

On 3/27/2019 at 11:14 PM, statsgirl said:

The line-up en route to the elevator was the worst for me -- the woman has been traumatized, she doesn't want to talk about it and now she has to go through two long lines of complete strangers looking at her.  Maybe they're judging her, we know that didn't know why they are there at all. I just kept thinking, for someone who was genuinely traumatized and ashamed, this is going to make it even more traumatic for her.

I disagree. The second they saw her emotions on her face they knew why they were there...and she knew they knew and were standing in support of her.

I thought the scenes with Abby were the best part. The scenes with Jo and mother felt inauthentic, and I say that as someone who found out in adulthood (and who's father found out very late in life) that my father had a sister in his (deceased) mother's native country that no one (outside dead grandmother) knew existed that was conceived as the result of a sexual assault. Jo came off like a bratty teen. This storyline seems driven not by a desire to be authentic to metoo, but rather as a contrived way to throw a wrench into happy Alex&Jo, and because they don't really seem to have any other storyline this season.

[snarky snarkerson]

19 hours ago, dmc said:

I have A LOT to say

First and foremost, this is the reason they have agencies for you to leave your information if you are searching for a parent or a child.  It protects the privacy of both parties as opposed to showing up on their doorstep unannounced.  There are a lot of reasons people give children up for adoption or otherwise.  Second, if you did want to contact them a letter is your best option.  My family has been through something similar.  It should be a victim’s choice whether to tell her family she was raped.  I get that her circumstances were terrible growing up but she was still OUT of line.  Especially blaming this woman whom she doesn’t know for her abuse with her husband.   These are issues she needs to work out with a therapist not project on a complete stranger.  

Jo has a lot of issues.  From being abandoned, to abused, to secretly keeping a gun, to keeping things from Alex.  Hopefully she will go get the therapy she needs to move on.  

Spot on!

[txhorns79]

40 minutes ago, deaja said:

It was obvious from the preview/commercials that Jo was conceived in a rape.

I think I've truly been deadened by SVU to the point where I just now roll my eyes when any television character is revealed as a child of rape.  I don't know what Jo was expecting from her ambush visit with her birth mother, but I will say that Jo's personal problems are not the fault of her birth mother and I thought it was entirely unfair for Jo to suggest otherwise.   

On 3/28/2019 at 11:04 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

(1) who is taking care of all the patients in the hospital if that many of the employees are standing in the hallway?

LOL.  By this point, I just presume they all die or otherwise lapse into comas from lack of treatment. 

[Aethera]

15 hours ago, Joana said:

Jo's scenes with her mother were definitely the highlight of the episode. I've loved Michelle Forbes since Homicide and she did a great job here.

This, though for me in addition to Homicide she'll always be Ro Laren. I was thrilled to see Michelle Forbes, and I thought she did great. The woman playing Abby was also terrific. It makes me a bit sad that I feel like guest cast is getting better writing than regular cast, lately.

For the hospital scenes, they did a really good job making those injuries look real. I do agree with others that Greys was trying too hard to sell a story that could have sold itself more effectively without them going over the top. I think some of Jo's reaction in the diner made sense. I have to imagine you have this picture in your head for a long time, you psyche yourself up to confront it, and then the script gets flipped on you and it's hard to let go of what you've been picturing. It could certainly lead to her expressing herself in a way she didn't intend to, and to anger stemming from feeling like the justifications she'd built up in her mind weren't true. 

[moonorchid]

1 hour ago, readster said:

The problem was that Linc confessed to Alex that he did notice her ex was controlling and even saw bruises and being that he was study ortho he knew they weren't self inflicted. However his excuse was: "he was a well known doctor and I was afraid to say anything." Which Alex replied; "If it would have been me and I knew, I would have kicked his ass and not cared about the consequences." Which just painted Linc like a classic: "Don't ask, don't tell." It made things even more stupid because when it was all said and done, Jo's ex might have been a well known doctor, but apparently people knew he had a bad temper and was an asshole. Yet brushed it off as: "he's a doctor." 

The last time alex thought he “knew” he almost killed an innocent man. 

I don’t remember the scene, I just remember link saying he didn’t know but he never liked him. 

Its such a weird position cause we know that if we suspect something we should say/do something but if he did would she have accepted that help or tell him to mind his business? As a society we walk the tight rope of both constantly.

[readster]

14 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think I've truly been deadened by SVU to the point where I just now roll my eyes when any television character is revealed as a child of rape.  I don't know what Jo was expecting from her ambush visit with her birth mother, but I will say that Jo's personal problems are not the fault of her birth mother and I thought it was entirely unfair for Jo to suggest otherwise.   

Plus, when Jo's birth mother was saying she was hurt by Jo's birth father, you could tell it wasn't a "bad break up". Jo should have gotten that from the second she didn't want to really talk about it. Plus, Jo's back story is so horribly piled crap upon crap. Both Grey's and Private Practice have depicted the adoption process and foster care like it's the 1960s. The only person who has been talked about being adopted and raised in a caring home was TV show favorite, Maggie. Which in the 80s was complete crap too. Then of course saying that her adoptive father was a control freak (which has NEVER been explained). 

They also brought up Jo's ex like he was this completely untouchable BIG BAD that if she tried to file for divorce or gave up her real ID, he would hunt her down, kill her and bribe everyone with: "You saw nothin" like some mob boss. Instead, he basically didn't care until he got himself someone brand new to abuse and then needed a divorce. Of course he could have filed an annulment saying that she went a wall and he didn't know where she was. With all the hype how he was so untouchable in the end he was just revealed to be someone who basically got himself killed and was so use to everyone looking the other way. He was seen about to asault people and that got him killed. 

[dmc]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

That was a horrible episode, in my opinion.

It felt like it was trying so hard to be a super powerful episode that it just went straight into melodrama. It’s a hugely important subject so I was disappointed. It was obvious from the preview/commercials that Jo was conceived in a rape. So that also didn’t help. 

The women watching her go to surgery was not impactful because it was like the writers were hanging up a glowing neon sign saying “WATCH THESE WOMEN SUPPORT WOMEN!!!  LOOK HERE!”

The best episodes on television are when writers just let a story play out and stop trying to send the audience a message.  Sexual assault is powerful enough, it doesn’t need anything added to it.  The best parts of the episode were when Jo’s mom and the assault victim at the hospital were just acting.  Their eyes conveyed so much pain.   From a character standpoint, the assault narratives overshadowed anything going on with Jo for me.   It was extremely difficult for me to hear her mother’s story with Jo’s hostility added into it.  I wasn’t thinking Jo really had it hard...although she did I was mainly feeling for her mother the whole time. 

[dmc]

19 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

The last time alex thought he “knew” he almost killed an innocent man. 

I don’t remember the scene, I just remember link saying he didn’t know but he never liked him. 

Its such a weird position cause we know that if we suspect something we should say/do something but if he did would she have accepted that help or tell him to mind his business? As a society we walk the tight rope of both constantly.

I mean she’s not accepting help right now and she’s not in an abusive relationship so most likely not.  Confiding and trusting seem hard for her 

Edited March 29, 2019 by dmc

[GSMHvisitor]

26 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

The last time alex thought he “knew” he almost killed an innocent man. 

I don’t remember the scene, I just remember link saying he didn’t know but he never liked him. 

Its such a weird position cause we know that if we suspect something we should say/do something but if he did would she have accepted that help or tell him to mind his business? As a society we walk the tight rope of both constantly.

You don't remember it, because it never happened that way. Link said exactly what you remember. That he knew Paul and didn't like him. He told Jo as much, but she didn't care. He never knew a thing about the abuse.

[AnnieHeights]

Admittedly I have only watched about a 1/4 of this episode so far but I have a question.........I might have missed something but the rape victim, it was done by a man she met in a bar after having a fight about laundry with her husband right?  She was going to have surgery but wasn't planning on telling her husband what happened to her......how was she going to explain this to her husband?  I think he would notice the bruises and cut on her face and there would have to be some sort of after care correct?  Don't worry about spoiling :-)

Also, add me to the list of people were surprised how Jo was towards her birth mother......I really wasn't expecting the degree of harshness.  I understand seeing the big house, husband, dog and knowing she had kids would be a little hard to take but also she should know there was more of a story there than, 'oh we just didn't want THIS baby, lets leave her at a fire station'.          

[iMonrey]

Quote

 Jo came off like a bratty teen. This storyline seems driven not by a desire to be authentic to metoo, but rather as a contrived way to throw a wrench into happy Alex&Jo, and because they don't really seem to have any other storyline this season.

Yeah . . . here's the thing. If you have spent your whole life not knowing who your birth parents are, you have spent some time speculating about them. And, at some point in your life, you have considered every conceivable possibility. The idea that your conception might have been a result of rape or incest is why many adoptees do not try to find their birth parents. It's scary to think you might have been conceived under some horrible circumstance. It's almost better not to know. 

So, it felt rather absurd to me that it had never once crossed Jo's mind or that she was so tone-deaf to her birth mother's revelation. I understand her desire to vent and lash out, to a degree. But at the same time, it made her seem irrational and it made me dislike her.

Worse still, the contrast to how compassionate she was with the rape victim at the hospital. That just made her behavior with her mother all the more inexplicable. You add to that her own abused past and you have a trifecta of WTF Jo. 

And yeah - it seems like Jo has been a ticking time bomb from the moment she got involved with Alex. I never thought they had a chance long-term, they're both so horribly damaged.

Quote

So Teddy is up and around no problem after her baby emergency last episode?  I thought it was dangerous?  I must have missed how that was resolved.

They turned her upside down for a few hours and now she's good to go!

Edited March 29, 2019 by iMonrey

[AzraeltheCat]

On 3/27/2019 at 11:14 PM, statsgirl said:

I liked the scenes with Jo and her mother.  Michelle Forbes touched my heart even when I didn't agree with the character's actions. Jo's reaction felt less authentic to me; did she really not anticipate that the person who gave her up wouldn't welcome her with open arms?

****

The line-up en route to the elevator was the worst for me -- the woman has been traumatized, she doesn't want to talk about it and now she has to go through two long lines of complete strangers looking at her.  Maybe they're judging her, we know that didn't know why they are there at all. I just kept thinking, for someone who was genuinely traumatized and ashamed, this is going to make it even more traumatic for her.

I thought that was odd for Jo too. She's been in an abusive relationship, she's a doctor...she knows the reasons that people often give up children for.  She had an abortion while in her abusive relationship, I can't believe it didn't occur to her that her mother may have had a similar trauma.  I get that she's angry about her childhood, but it just seemed off. 

I thought the same thing about the "line-up!"  I get clearing the hall of men, but I agree, it seems like she wouldn't want strangers staring at her. 

[Chicken Wing]

That episode was ... intense. A little too much? Like, dial it down a bit and stop bludgeoning me with that hammer a little bit? That said, despite the insanely overwrought melodrama of it all, I thought it was good.

It was neat learning Jo's origin. I'm indifferent toward Jo in general -- don't love her, don't hate her -- so I wasn't particularly invested, but it was neat to get a full (and overly tragic) backstory. And also, can the show dial it down with Jo's life sucking? It seems that not only has Grey's dethroned ER as the longest-running medical drama, but they also have Jo now dethrone Abby Lockhart as the most aggressively crapped-on character ever. Not ONLY did she have to change her identity to escape an abusive husband, not ONLY did she have to scrape by living in her car, not ONLY did she grow up bouncing around horrible foster homes, not ONLY was she abandoned at a fire station as a five-day-old baby ... but she was conceived through rape! Good Lord, man.

And I agree with others who call bullshit on the notion that a newborn white baby girl wouldn't have been snapped up instantly by prospective adoptive parents. Same thing I used to say about Emma from "Once Upon a Time."

I don't know what to make of Jo's attitude toward Vicki once they sat down to talk. She was scared and nervous and hopeful at Vicki's doorstep but very hostile when they were talking for real. Clearly the discovery that her mother wasn't some down-on-her-luck townie just getting by in life did not sit well with her, particularly after having hours to stew on it while she waited at the diner. But I'm not sure what she expected to find or what kind of reaction she thought she'd get. It wasn't really fair to dump her horrible, horrible life (horrible!) on Vicki because it wasn't her fault and obviously not what she intended or predicted, but I get why she had to let it out and Vicki was sitting right in front of her to take it.

I thought it was very powerful when Vicki revealed that she hoped that the maternal instinct thing was real and would kick in when she had the baby, that despite how it happened she would be filled with love for her child ... and that she actually did, she loved Jo after all ... but she couldn't bear to keep her, this reminder of the trauma she went through and was still suffering from. And she didn't have a logical, good excuse or explanation why, if she loved her baby but knew she couldn't keep her, she didn't arrange to place her with an adoption agency -- because Jo could understand this reality of being a 19-year-old girl who just can't possibly keep the child that was conceived through an attack, but why leave her at a fire station instead of making sure she had a home? And Vicki makes no excuses for the fact that there was no real excuse for not doing that. She just wasn't in her right mind when it happened. Her rape destroyed her, and she was still broken then and continues to be a little today. Yes, that was a bad move, but she just wasn't capable of making right decisions. And it is what it is.

[proserpina65]

1 hour ago, snarky snarkerson said:

The second they saw her emotions on her face they knew why they were there...and she knew they knew and were standing in support of her.

That's why I thought, too.

[AzraeltheCat]

15 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I do have one significant nitpick. Teddy, Jo, and Qadri would NOT be doing a rape kit on anyone. There’s this thing called a SANE — Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner. Now, not every hospital has one, but GSM is surely big enough to have one if not several. These nurses are trained to perform sexual assault examination. So many TV shows get this wrong, and I don’t understand it. It’s important that the SANE does it because if evidence isn’t collected correctly, it could be inadmissible in court. As someone who’s unfortunately had to be seen by a SANE, this bugged me. Also, Abby would’ve had an advocate as well.

That was my FIRST thought when they started doing the kit.  And ditto on the advocate as well. 

[proserpina65]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

but why leave her at a fire station instead of making sure she had a home?

Were safe haven laws around at the time?  Because now, fire stations are among the places you can leave a baby and know that it will be taken care of.

[readster]

7 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Were safe haven laws around at the time?  Because now, fire stations are among the places you can leave a baby and know that it will be taken care of.

Right and it was no coincidence that following up on Station 19, they had just that. A healthy white baby boy left at the fire house with a note saying: "Find him a good home." Almost 30 years ago, it was a different story, but at the same time, DCFS and other agencies existed in the late 80s early 90s because it was becoming more common where babies were being left at police and fire stations and not in the back of a coat room at a train station or subway. That's actually the reason why there are safe haven laws now. Yet, we are lead to believe that a perfectly health white baby girl in the late 80s was just bounced from foster care to foster care in the middle of Pennsylvania. It's complete BS and I agree above, Jo has now taken over the spot from Maggie Lockhart as the most crapped up, crappy life that ever had crap done to them on TV.

[AzraeltheCat]

51 minutes ago, AnnieHeights said:

Admittedly I have only watched about a 1/4 of this episode so far but I have a question.........I might have missed something but the rape victim, it was done by a man she met in a bar after having a fight about laundry with her husband right?  She was going to have surgery but wasn't planning on telling her husband what happened to her......how was she going to explain this to her husband?  I think he would notice the bruises and cut on her face and there would have to be some sort of after care correct?  Don't worry about spoiling :-)

I wondered how she would explain it to her husband too.  And while I get that Abby was worried about what people/cops would say -- she was out drinking and flirting after fighting w/her husband, her skirt is too short, etc-- The fact that she was beaten so badly [and pretty sure they showed bleeding teeth marks on her shoulder at one point], it certainly did seemed to me that any decent cop would recognize she was forced into, and did not consent to, a sexual act.

Edited March 29, 2019 by AzraeltheCat

[readster]

10 minutes ago, AzraeltheCat said:

I wondered how she would explain it to her husband too.  And while I get that Abby was worried about what people/cops would say -- she was out drinking and flirting after fighting w/her husband, her skirt is too short, etc-- The fact that she was beaten so badly [and pretty sure they showed bleeding teeth marks on her shoulder at one point], it certainly did seemed to me that any decent cop would recognize she was forced into, and did not consent to, a sexual act.

Right, it was ranking up there with: "They have a good lawyer who can spin it that it was the woman's/man's fault." That type of attack and then the fact there were deep teeth marks. Yeah, way too much evidence there. Any good lawyer would be; "Umm... yeah you can't get out of this, just take a plea and let's all move on." 

[Emily Thrace]

32 minutes ago, readster said:

Right and it was no coincidence that following up on Station 19, they had just that. A healthy white baby boy left at the fire house with a note saying: "Find him a good home." Almost 30 years ago, it was a different story, but at the same time, DCFS and other agencies existed in the late 80s early 90s because it was becoming more common where babies were being left at police and fire stations and not in the back of a coat room at a train station or subway. That's actually the reason why there are safe haven laws now. Yet, we are lead to believe that a perfectly health white baby girl in the late 80s was just bounced from foster care to foster care in the middle of Pennsylvania. It's complete BS and I agree above, Jo has now taken over the spot from Maggie Lockhart as the most crapped up, crappy life that ever had crap done to them on TV.

I remember in the first episode Jo brought up that she was left at a fire station is that she had a heart murmur as an infant. By the time it was corrected she was 3 and that families found her too old to adopt. Which is still a stretch for a pretty white girl but not totally implausible.

[chitowngirl]

Abby said her husband was out of town, Portland, on a business trip. So I imagine the timeline was-had a fight with her husband, stormed out and went to the bar. At the same time Abby was at the bar, husband left for his trip. She was probably thinking she would be healed by the time he came back. We don’t know how long his trip was going to be.

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, AnnieHeights said:

Admittedly I have only watched about a 1/4 of this episode so far but I have a question.........I might have missed something but the rape victim, it was done by a man she met in a bar after having a fight about laundry with her husband right?  She was going to have surgery but wasn't planning on telling her husband what happened to her......how was she going to explain this to her husband?  I think he would notice the bruises and cut on her face and there would have to be some sort of after care correct?  Don't worry about spoiling 🙂

Also, add me to the list of people were surprised how Jo was towards her birth mother......I really wasn't expecting the degree of harshness.  I understand seeing the big house, husband, dog and knowing she had kids would be a little hard to take but also she should know there was more of a story there than, 'oh we just didn't want THIS baby, lets leave her at a fire station'.          

The woman was in some serious denial.  Obviously, there is no way she could have hid the extent of her surgery or injuries from her husband.  But she wasn't ready to face it so she was living in a world that somehow it would be okay.  That she'd get the surgery and it would be fine.  The fact that he'd have serious questions she'd have to answer was too far ahead for her thought process.  Presumably she might have told him she was in an automobile accident but I think she was making her plans moment to moment not days down the line.  

I don't think Jo came to that meeting intending to be so confrontational.  I think she saw her birth mother who she always expected to be struggling living this picture perfect suburban life and that filled her with the rage that made her so confrontational.   

[MrWhyt]

1 minute ago, bybrandy said:

The woman was in some serious denial.  Obviously, there is no way she could have hid the extent of her surgery or injuries from her husband.  But she wasn't ready to face it so she was living in a world that somehow it would be okay.  That she'd get the surgery and it would be fine.  The fact that he'd have serious questions she'd have to answer was too far ahead for her thought process.  Presumably she might have told him she was in an automobile accident but I think she was making her plans moment to moment not days down the line.  

I don't think Jo came to that meeting intending to be so confrontational.  I think she saw her birth mother who she always expected to be struggling living this picture perfect suburban life and that filled her with the rage that made her so confrontational.   

yeah i think her position before them meeting was along the lines "she gave me up, she must not have been in a good place. She must have had a hard life, I've had hard life, I can understand her decision." and then when she actually met her it became "I've had a hard life, she has it good, if she kept me I could have had a good life. WTF!!!?"

[RedbirdNelly]

12 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Abby said her husband was out of town, Portland, on a business trip. So I imagine the timeline was-had a fight with her husband, stormed out and went to the bar. At the same time Abby was at the bar, husband left for his trip. She was probably thinking she would be healed by the time he came back. We don’t know how long his trip was going to be.

possibly but I also thought she may have just made up the business trip because it was mentioned early on when she was in the strongest denial stage. But possibly there really was one.

[bybrandy]

6 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

But possibly there really was one.

Yeah, he was in the scene with the police at the end but Portland and Seattle are close enough that it doesn't mean much either way.

[RedbirdNelly]

One surprise to me was the end. I just knew when Jo saw Abby talking to her husband that would be the normal epiphany from a patient moment and the episode would end with Jo talking to Alex. And the complete end of that storyline. But, no, Jo actually didn't learn an important lesson from a patient and the inability to talk to Alex continues for at least another episode.

[PepSinger]

1 hour ago, AzraeltheCat said:

That was my FIRST thought when they started doing the kit.  And ditto on the advocate as well. 

It’s really unfortunate that they haven’t had any main characters be a nurse on this show. That’s the only reason those three were doing the exam; the audience probably wouldn’t have cared if it was some random nurse that we don’t know.

[anna0852]

If Jo did college and med school, followed by a 5 year residency on time then she is 31 and born in 1988. What were the safe haven laws then, if any? Could family services have placed her for adoption as a baby or did it take so long to terminate the parental rights that she was then too old?

[GSMHvisitor]

15 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

One surprise to me was the end. I just knew when Jo saw Abby talking to her husband that would be the normal epiphany from a patient moment and the episode would end with Jo talking to Alex. And the complete end of that storyline. But, no, Jo actually didn't learn an important lesson from a patient and the inability to talk to Alex continues for at least another episode.

I wonder how that will be handled going forward. It's understandable that she's too shaken up for now to deal with it or even talk about it, but Jo has a history of not telling Alex big important things and it's starting to bother me. Elsewhere someone pointed out that Jo doesn't owe Alex her story and I agree, but only to a degree. Because at this point it's a gun, an abusive husband, an identity change, an abortion. Plus she apparently had a best friend all along she's never mentioned to Alex before either. Now she's blowing him off about her mother. These are all big and formative things she hid from Alex and I don't think he should be supposed just accept it. I want it to be addressed as hurtful behaviour she needs to grow out of. I want Alex's feelings about all her secrets to be acknowledged. Not necessarily in a big way, certainly not in a way that paints Jo in a bad light, but I want it to be clear that this is a pretty hurtful thing for a partner.

Only that won't happen, because Jo always has good reasons for her secrets and they are always linked to pain she had to suffer through. So Alex doesn't say anything, to the Paul reveal he barely even got to react, and his only role is that of supportive boyfriend. As he should be, don't get me wrong. But somewhere in the middle I would like to have it acknowledged that Jo's actions are not entirely okay and that they do affect Alex too.

[DEL901]

I think Jo saw herself swanning into her mother's life... the mother who would be racked with guilt over what she did, someone who was still poor and downtrodden who has spent decades castigating herself for her horrible deed, and immediately who beg forgiveness from the daughter she's never stopped longing for.  And Jo would look down at her and tell her her about how she suffered but she's overcome her crappy start and graciously forgiving her grateful mother and then swan back to Seattle ready to be a better mother to her and Alex's prospective progeny.

And then she realized that all her preconceived notions were wrong.  Her mother wasn't some careless or slutty teen who got knocked up.  She'd been hating the wrong person for years.  She so quickly switched to asking about her father... wonder if she built him up in her head?  Maybe even thought her mother had deliberately kept them apart?  Adopted kids have lots of fantasies about why they were given away...

[shantown]

1 hour ago, anna0852 said:

If Jo did college and med school, followed by a 5 year residency on time then she is 31 and born in 1988. What were the safe haven laws then, if any? Could family services have placed her for adoption as a baby or did it take so long to terminate the parental rights that she was then too old?

I think you just put more thought into the timeline than the writer's room ever has 🙂

[RachelKM]

1 hour ago, RedbirdNelly said:

One surprise to me was the end. I just knew when Jo saw Abby talking to her husband that would be the normal epiphany from a patient moment and the episode would end with Jo talking to Alex. And the complete end of that storyline. But, no, Jo actually didn't learn an important lesson from a patient and the inability to talk to Alex continues for at least another episode.

I had the same reaction.  I was thinking "And here's the part in Grey's in which the main character finally recognizes the parallel with her own immediate situation and takes the lessen to heart."  Only, Jo didn't.  And I kinda like that, even if I don't like what Jo is doing by shutting Alex out so completely itself. 

I haven't seen this brought up, but I was a little annoyed by the Sex Talk between Ben and Tucker.  Of course they had the consent conversation in the middle of this rape-centric episode.  But it felt incomplete and sexist.  I wish Ben had thought to say that Tucker also could stop if he became uncomfortable.  There's always this "men always want sex" theme in the "if a girl says stop' conversation. It is absolutely important to teach him that he shouldn't pressure a girl and that, no matter what point they get to, if she says stop or becomes uncomfortable, he needs halt.  But I just wish there had been a follow up with "And for that matter, you can stop if you want to."

Edited March 29, 2019 by RachelKM

[RedbirdNelly]

I agree--the fact she didn't talk to Alex was poor from a "she should talk to him"perspective.

But the fact she actually didn't learn all she needed to know from watching a patient was refreshing from a TV show perspective. I hate that they do that basically every week. X has an issue and surprise surprise they find the answer from the patient of the week. Rinse. Repeat.

[Joana]

13 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I kind of understood Jo's irrational anger at her birth mother, even though it was jarring to watch. She's carrying so much hurt over her childhood, of course she was going to let it out. 

I can understand that she had built this entire fantasy in her head about some poor soul who could barely make ends meet and couldn't possibly afford to keep a baby, but spent every day of the rest of her life regretting that she had to leave her child behind. And then the reality seemingly couldn't be any more different - here she was, this woman, who looked like she had it going pretty well, with a nice house and a family of her own, who obviously moved on with her life and decidedly did NOT dream of reuniting with her long-lost daughter. It's perfectly natural that she'd feel hurt and angry.

What bothered me, however, was that her anger intensified as her birth mother was telling her story, instead of the opposite. When the woman went at great lenght into how she wished the man who impregnated her had died a more painful death, it was obvious that whatever happened between the two of them must have been much more serious than a teenage crush gone bad; and Jo of all people should have realized that. Instead she doubled down and started openly accusing and blaming her mother, which felt way off at that point.

Also, I found it really strange how unprepared was for the whole thing. Meeting her birth mother was obviously a planned decision, so it's weird that she apparently never talked to anyone who went through something similar (hell, Meredith and Maggie were there and both had useful stories to share) or read about people who had such an experience, so she could be ready for the possibility of the reality not matching her fantasy, as well as devising an appropriate startegy for talking to her mother, instead of simple "Hi, I'm your daughter you abandoned at the fire station decades ago, now tell me why you did it". 

If they wanted to have it played out exactly this way, perhaps it would have been better if Jo had somehow accidentally found out who her mother was, had no time to process it and acted implusively. In that case, her whoel behaviour would have made more sense. 

[marceline]

1 hour ago, anna0852 said:

If Jo did college and med school, followed by a 5 year residency on time then she is 31 and born in 1988. What were the safe haven laws then, if any? Could family services have placed her for adoption as a baby or did it take so long to terminate the parental rights that she was then too old?

According to Wikipedia the first Safe Haven law was passed in Texas in 1999.

[JTM]

2 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I remember in the first episode Jo brought up that she was left at a fire station is that she had a heart murmur as an infant. By the time it was corrected she was 3 and that families found her too old to adopt. Which is still a stretch for a pretty white girl but not totally implausible.

Good remembering!

Still pretty implausible though. MANY newborn infants have heart murmurs -- my first son had one 25 years ago -- and the protocol at the time was "let it be, check it in six months, most of them heal on their own". It's far from being a major issue, generally speaking (and clearly wasn't, if Jo's wasn't 'corrected' until she was three), but I'd submit that the adoption-desperation for newborns, and especially a newborn with no presenting parents, would have been huge enough anyway that she'd have been adopted. 

I think it was a miss by the writers. As, to some degree, from a different angle, was the Betty story. Placing an infant for adoption is all-too-rarely the mother's actual choice. Often it's deeply fraught. If anything, Jo's story with this set-up should have been an example of a best-possible scenario.

[meatball77]

I'm sick of these shows that have to have their obviously very educated adults have terrible backstories that include being dirt poor.  How do you go from living in your car (how did she even afford a car) to medical school?  And really, if she was a long time foster kid her story would be more like Callie's on The Fosters.  Being in and out of Juvie because that's what they do with kids who run away in the foster system. Going from being a foster kid to even enrolling in College is a huge feat but being able to do that and get in and pay for medical school, to support yourself while going to classes and to do well enough to even get into medical school.  If she'd been a nurse it would have been more believable but getting into medical school. . . . 

I liked the episode, it was a little in your face but I'm ok with that sometimes.

[anna0852]

I think Jo was married to the asshole husband during at least part of med school. He could have been paying. 

[Chicken Wing]

4 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I remember in the first episode Jo brought up that she was left at a fire station is that she had a heart murmur as an infant. By the time it was corrected she was 3 and that families found her too old to adopt. Which is still a stretch for a pretty white girl but not totally implausible.

Nice memory! Nothing is completely implausible but this is still pretty damn close. A gazillion parents would have adopted her as a baby with the heart murmur -- both in spite of it and because of it -- and even if they wouldn't, the idea that 3 is too old to be adoptable? Again, pretty white girl.

[chitowngirl]

59 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I think Jo was married to the asshole husband during at least part of med school. He could have been paying. 

Didn’t she mentioned that she found grants and scholarships? She came out of school with no debt.

[KaveDweller]

On 3/28/2019 at 4:39 PM, dmc said:

I also was shocked that not one person on the show expressed any doubt that her showing up there might be a bad idea.  I mean Meredith was not exactly thrilled to meet Maggie or Lacey and neither situation was as traumatic as this.  I kept waiting for Maggie, Meredith  or even Alex to be like maybe exercise some caution.

Didn't she talked to Maggie? She talked to someone who made her think it was a good idea, and then Jackson told her how he had a bad experience with his birth father. But she decided to do it anyway. Or maybe she was just listening to Maggie's TV interview?

Until it came up a few episodes ago, I didn't even remember Jo was abandoned as a baby. I remembered that she didn't have family and lived in her car, but I guess I thought her parents had died when she was a kid or something. It does seem pretty unbelievable no one would have adopted her.

I was also surprised Jo was so hostile to her mother. I thought she was looking to connect with her, but I guess when her mother refused to even talk to her, she got pissed off. I would imagine after a lifetime of not knowing your parents, a rejection would hurt more than for others and cause that type of hostility. 

Does anyone else watch Station 19? It featured a plot where a baby was abandoned at the fire station this week. I am assuming that is not a coincidence?

[Layne]

4 hours ago, DEL901 said:

She so quickly switched to asking about her father... wonder if she built him up in her head?  Maybe even thought her mother had deliberately kept them apart?  Adopted kids have lots of fantasies about why they were given away...

What's funny is that that's exactly what Ellis did with Maggie/Richard, and Maggie knows that, and she knows Richard, but instead of building a relationship with him, she's dating his stepson. I wonder how Jo feels about that lol. 

17 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Does anyone else watch Station 19? It featured a plot where a baby was abandoned at the fire station this week. I am assuming that is not a coincidence?

Jolex will probably adopt it. 

[Layne]

47 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Didn’t she mentioned that she found grants and scholarships? She came out of school with no debt.

She got grants and scholarships but no room & board?

[CrazyInAlabama]

I think a baby abandoned at the fire house would have been adopted the second the court cleared her for adoption.   Even with the heart murmur she would have still been adopted.    And even a three year old that had the murmur fixed would have been adopted.  

[marykat71702]

Wow, Jo went supreme bitch right off the bat, which, to me, isn't a good way to get the information you're looking for. 

The whole thing about all of the women in the hallway bothered me. The last thing I would want as a traumatized person is a bunch of people I don't know looking at me.  And how long was Abby's husband supposed to be out of town? I would think that wounds that extensive would take a while to heal. Did she think he wouldn't notice?

Poor Alex. I don't like how the show is using him these days. Give the poor man a good storyline already.

Yes, "the talk" is necessary, but mixed in with this episode it felt very heavy-handed.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Didn’t she mentioned that she found grants and scholarships? She came out of school with no debt.

Also wasn’t there a teacher who helped her? I remember one of her first scenes in this show when Alex saw she had a fancy watch and assumed she was rich and have her crap she said the watch was a gift from a teacher who helped her out and she told Alex some of her backstory about living in a car. 

[statsgirl]

9 hours ago, readster said:

Right, it was ranking up there with: "They have a good lawyer who can spin it that it was the woman's/man's fault." That type of attack and then the fact there were deep teeth marks. Yeah, way too much evidence there. Any good lawyer would be; "Umm... yeah you can't get out of this, just take a plea and let's all move on." 

She's a Black woman in a country where Black men are shot and often killed by police while holding their hands in the air to show they're unarmed and there is no consequence to the police. It's a country where Black women are often discounted and micro-agressions happen daily. Where people shoot real-time video to protect themselves and it still means nothing.

A good lawyer would say "she wanted to stick it to her husband and she likes rough sex". I don't blame Abby for not wanting to go through that.

14 hours ago, readster said:

Yes ,but Alex is her husband who had dealt with a lot of crap himself. He had an abusive husband and a scizo mother and brother. Yes, his father never raped his mother or anything, but the show falls into the same trap as any other show. No one TALKS to anyone. 

I can understand why Jo didn't tell Alex what had happened to her, she was still trying to process it especially if she's in introvert. (Although if she were an introvert, she would know that the line-up of unknown women could make Abby ever worse.)

What I really didn't like is that she shut Alex out completely.  He offered to just go home with her and get in bed and watch a movie, and she rejected that completely.  She has the right not to tell him right now, but they're married now, and partners, and she can't shut him out as completely as she did.

11 hours ago, dmc said:

The best episodes on television are when writers just let a story play out and stop trying to send the audience a message.  Sexual assault is powerful enough, it doesn’t need anything added to it.  The best parts of the episode were when Jo’s mom and the assault victim at the hospital were just acting.  Their eyes conveyed so much pain.   From a character standpoint, the assault narratives overshadowed anything going on with Jo for me.   It was extremely difficult for me to hear her mother’s story with Jo’s hostility added into it.  I wasn’t thinking Jo really had it hard...although she didl I was mainly feeling for her mother the whole time. 

From a writing standpoint, it was bad plotting because it diminished both stories.  I feel less of Jo's pain because I'm feeling her mother's and I'm wondering why Jo can't feel it too.

Edited March 30, 2019 by statsgirl

[Grammaeryn]

I’m wondering if they are gearing up another Very Special episode? Jo’s avoidance, distraction, hyper focus, and need for sleep looks like depression. Her adverse childhood experiences would have her in the potential funky brain chemistry club. I’m a card holding member! 

[ams1001]

23 hours ago, PepSinger said:

As someone asked in last week's episode thread, does anyone in this hospital actually have work to do??

That was me and I am still wondering!

21 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I thought it was interesting that when she was telling her birth mother about the life she has now, she said "I have a job that I love, friends who I love, and a husband who loves me" - not "husband who I love".

I noticed that too...