S03.E16: Don't Take My Sunshine Away

[MsChicklet]

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

Randall’s compliments to Beth remind me of Jack’s compliments to Rebecca in that they are somewhat sincere but at least slightly manipulative. Jack loves Rebecca  but it is contingent on her following along with his grand scheme of their life.

This episode showed just how much Kevin and Randall are both Jack Pearson's sons. They both inherited major traits from Jack, for better and worse.

Kevin, obviously, got the addiction gene. He also got Jack's easy, sincere charm that not only lets him get what he wants but hides demons and secrets well, as well as Jack's love of the grand gesture (the "I choose you" statement, and the Billy Joel tickets).

Randall got Jack's sense of purpose in family, the love of the dramatic monologue, but also Jack's control issues and an anger management problem.

[Thumper]

On March 19, 2019 at 9:25 PM, LexieLily said:

I took the Kevin/Zoe scenes differently. Zoe's had one foot out the door of this relationship since she learned of Kevin's relapse and her sudden pronouncement of never wanting kids and Kevin needing to decide was just a convenient excuse for him to bolt. The ending scene where Kevin told her he chose her. She wanted him to say he wanted kids and that was a deal-breaker then she wouldn't have to be the one that dumped a newly-relapsed alcoholic.  

I also wondered if that was just a "reason/hope" by Zoe that he would choose kids over her.  Not that I blame her for being leery about Kevin at this time.

[ams1001]

23 hours ago, maggiemae said:

OTOH, pull over and plug in the charger and then continue driving.

Though, if you're trapped in traffic on a major highway, pulling over might not be possible.

9 hours ago, Katy M said:

I was just kind of making a joke.  Because sometimes they make it seem like he can get between the two places in like 5 minutes, when of course, he can't.

In the episode where he takes Deja to the building in Philly (just to monologue at her, which he could have done at home) she says they drove an hour to get there. Which, unless his car can fly, is not happening.

[DebbieM4]

15 hours ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

Only, she didn't cancel.  She told Randall she was invited for drinks, and wouldn't be able to make it to dinner, but he put his stubborn foot down and she (deflatedly) said ok.  She showed up.  She was gracious and the perfect doting politician's wife.  

Exactly.  She didn't cancel.  She said she would be there and she was.  And she sat there and played the role perfectly even though she had heard his voicemail and the horrible things he had said to her.  Once again she put herself aside and was a supportive wife.

13 hours ago, CJRocks said:

and I have had some really good fights over the years, but I have never, ever told him to sleep on the couch or sleep in his office. That's disgusting. 

I never told my husband to sleep on the couch either.  But he also never spoke to me in such a condescending, belittling, and nasty manner.  She didn't deserve what he said.  I would have been just as angry as Beth was, if not more so.  He needs to work on the extreme hostility that came out in that voicemail message.   I see Randall as the disgusting one here, most definitely not Beth.

[DebbieM4]

15 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

No, I think they said that if you would get this upset about someone asking for a charger, then perhaps you shouldn't host people. 

That's what I saw too.  It wasn't about actually having a charger available for guests.  It was about being so put out by the idea that a guest might ask to use one.  And I agree that if a hostess gets so thrown off and so offended by simple requests, they probably shouldn't be hosting.   No one here said - or even implied - that only people who own chargers should host.

12 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Well, that’s condescending and inaccurate. Beth wanted to *teach* not dance. Also, there are plenty of adult women who dance; it’s their career. To dismiss it as some childish endeavor is rude, IMO.

I feel the same way.  She certainly had no illusions about being a ballerina or a dancing star on Broadway or the latest sensation in music videos.  She's turning her lifelong passion into something that not only fulfills her but also provides some income.  Randall has certainly indulged himself as he's hopped from one obsession to another and some of the time brought in no money at all, so I hardly think we should be belittling Beth at this point.  Most of the time she seems to be the only thinking adult in that household.

[Violetgoblin6]

On 3/20/2019 at 8:15 AM, bichonblitz said:

Beth is not a saint because she heard Randall's phone msg and still showed up at dinner, albeit late. She clearly said she was stuck in traffic and her phone was dead. She asked to charge it once she made it to dinner. She probably listened to her msgs after her phone was charged and she was still at the dinner. You can see how her demeanor changed later in the night. 

Beth told Randall she would go to the dinner, then changed her mind after being invited to drinks. Why is that ok? They are both behaving like self involved shits, neither one is more right than the other. 

And didn't Beth say something like, "you mean the message I got after I drove here and was in traffic for three hours..."

[Violetgoblin6]

On 3/20/2019 at 4:32 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm the same age as the Big 3 and the public schools where I lived in 1992 were divided K-6, 7-9, and 10-12 grades.  I don't know if any of the elementary schools in the area had any special graduation ceremonies or dances for 6th grade.  I didn't go to a middle school dance until 7th grade at my Catholic school.

Yup, same here. We did have a sixth grade "graduation" dinner and dance back in good old 1987. I just assumed it was a sixth grade graduation dance at Kevin and Kate's school (although it said middle school-weird). 

[bros402]

On 3/21/2019 at 5:42 PM, Cowgirl said:

It was driving me crazy wondering from where I  knew the actress who played the doctor or nurse drawing the baby's blood. I looked on IMDB and she wasn't listed.  It wasn't until I woke up the next morning that it popped into my head that it was Kirsten Nelson, who played the chief of police on Psych.  *Whew!*

THAT'S where I recognized her from. I recognized the voice, I could not place her, it was such a quick thing.

I guess she's a fan of the show 😛

[JudyObscure]

Quote

6 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

That's what I saw too.  It wasn't about actually having a charger available for guests.  It was about being so put out by the idea that a guest might ask to use one.  And I agree that if a hostess gets so thrown off and so offended by simple requests, they probably shouldn't be hosting.   No one here said - or even implied - that only people who own chargers should host.

  Well several people told me  that if I couldn't be "accommodating about a charger", I shouldn't host and a dozen more agreed with them, so forgive me If I thought it was about providing people with chargers. It didn't occur to me they were talking about all those emotions you just described, because I didn't have any of those emotions.

  If, as you say, it was about being so put out and so thrown off then you can rest assured that I was none of the above.  All that and the adjectives others have added like how I thought Beth was outrageously rude are in your own heads.  All I ever said was that I thought Beth coming in and asking for a charger straight away was rude.  Not wildly rude, not criminal or outrageously rude,  just rude.  Plus I've said I wouldn't be upset and that I would have acted as gracious as the hostess at the dinner.

I know that's how I would act because my in-laws do all sorts of things at the table that I think are rude.  They slurp their soup, one couple always whispers to each other whenever I bring in a new dish,  another couple is always late, and one of them eats with his mouth open.  I never get upset, I never have a "hissy fit"  (something else attributed to me,) I don't get angry I  actually feel  slightly amused at how predictably adorkable they are.  I still think those things they do are rude.  Rude means a breach of etiquette, it doesn't mean horrifically, horrible bad.  Good people do rude things all the time. I do.  I catch myself interrupting and interrupting is rude.  I didn't know the word rude was so inflammatory to some people.  It's not a mortal sin or a criminal action it's just not Very Best Manners.

Clearly some people identify so strongly with  Beth that my slight criticism of her was taken as a criticism of them, but I like Beth and don't consider a minor breach of etiquette (if it even is one) as a big deal.  

I'm not, as accused, a total luddite, I have a computer, a DVD recorder-player, 3 TVs, lots of shiny appliances, a car and a new house with contemporary furnishings --  I just don't happen to have a cellphone for reasons explained.  I'm shocked that my not having one has caused so much upset, offence, and anger.

[ShadowFacts]

55 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm not, as accused, a total luddite, I have a computer, a DVD recorder-player, 3 TVs, lots of shiny appliances, a car and a new house with contemporary furnishings --  I just don't happen to have a cellphone for reasons explained.  I'm shocked that my not having one has caused so much upset, offence, and anger. 

 Was the overreaction fairy hovering about this forum for awhile?  It shines a little light on how central being connected at all times has become in a lot of our lives. 

[Lady Calypso]

I think we have exhausted the argument about cell phones and chargers enough. Let's move on, please. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 3/21/2019 at 11:35 PM, Ohmo said:

I agree with the girls being old enough to help with household chores, but I disagree with leaving them home alone for several hours.  Deja's 13, not 16 or 17.  Tess and Annie aren't her siblings, and even if they were, that's a lot to make a 13-year-old that responsible for two younger children.  I speak from experience.  I have siblings that are three and four years younger than me, and my parents had me "watch" the other two when I was 13-14.  They never listened, which was no big shock.  Thirteen or fourteen isn't old enough to command any sort of authority.  I finally told my parents to quit doing it or either expect crap to happen.  It puts Deja is an unfair position.  I agree with those who say hire a high school senior or college student for a couple of hours a week.  That's what my parents did.  Randall and Beth don't have to have a fancy nanny or au pair.

That's very interesting.  My parents left my older brother alone with us very often when he was only 10.  I still think that's a very very unfair burden that they put on him.  We even had a deranged person come to our house screaming and banging at the door demanding to speak to the person who had lived in the house before us.  I still can't believe we lived like that.  

I enjoy your perspective on this.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[CarpeFelis]

On 3/21/2019 at 8:10 AM, PepSinger said:

I’m at a loss as to why it’s so egregious to ask for a phone to be charged. Then again, maybe I’m just a silly millennial. 

If you are a host, your job is to be accommodating. If you (General you) are put out by someone asking to charge their phone in your home, then you shouldn’t be hosting anyone. JMO.

I’m a boomer and completely agree with you, so no, not a “silly” millennial!

[CarpeFelis]

On 3/21/2019 at 12:18 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Oh yeah.  Randall makes a lot of annoying speeches about how great Beth is.  Why are they annoying?  Because they've always felt so over the top and fake, and now we know that they really are.  I'd be like ew, who am I even married to?  The word I'm looking for is something like sycophantic or ingratiating or obsequious (thank you dictionary.com.)

The word I’m thinking of is “patronizing”.

[ams1001]

45 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

That's very interesting.  My parents left my older brother alone with us when he was only 10.  I still think that's a very very unfair burden that they put on him.  We even had a deranged person come to our house screaming and banging at the door demanding to speak to the person who had lived in the house before us.  I still can't believe we lived like that.  

I enjoy your perspective on this.

My mom went back to work full time (she always worked part time jobs, either day shifts when we were in school, or evening shifts after my dad was home when we were younger) when I was 11 and my brother was 13...he was usually home anyway but they decided I could handle being by myself for a few hours if necessary by that age. I guess he was technically "in charge" but he wasn't really "babysitting" because I didn't need to be watched. We mostly each just did our own thing, homework or TV or whatever. (Though there was that time he forgot his key and made me crawl through the window because I was smaller. I should'a left him outside. 😉 ) I do think whether an older sibling should babysit depends on both the kid's age/maturity level and how the younger kids are (if your kids get along and are not prone to causing trouble they're probably fine with a responsible older sibling), but ten is a little young no matter what, I think. 

We also had regular chores (emptying the dishwasher, feeding the dog, dusting/vacuuming, cleaning the bathroom...); who did what alternated by week. The only thing he did that I never had to do was mow the lawn. And we learned to do our own laundry as soon as we were tall enough to reach to the bottom of the washing machine (which for me was around 12...I was pretty small for my age until then). While I don't think Deja should be babysitting, given the foster situation (if one of them really needed to be watching Annie, it should be her actual sister, but then I tend to forget the character Tess is younger than the actress who plays her), all three of them can certainly do some age-appropriate household chores.

Edited March 23, 2019 by ams1001

[CarpeFelis]

On 3/21/2019 at 4:13 PM, JudyObscure said:

Do you have phone chargers all over your house?  Do you think it's wrong to entertain if you don't?  Do your parents have them?  Do they host?

I’m 61 and yes, we do have phone chargers all over our house. I don’t think it’s wrong to entertain if you don’t, but I also don’t think it’s AT ALL rude for a guest to ask to use one! I had older parents - both would be over 100 if still alive - so no to the last two questions. Maybe it’s because my husband and I are both engineers and love gadgets, but I think more like a millennial about this issue.

[WhosThatGirl]

I would say even with his addiction issues, Kevin is probably my favorite Pearson. I would also say Rebecca is mine too. And I personally think while Kevin shares traits with his father, he’s also more like Rebecca than either of his siblings.

I would agree with someone else who said Randall shares the unfavorable trait Jack had over control and pandering of Rebecca that Randall has with Beth. Which is odd considering Randall is the only Pearson kid who overheard that big fight from the season 1 finale(in the first episode of season 2, Randall left the party and went to the house and saw Rebecca and jack yelling at each other) so he knows. It will be interesting to see what and how the fight goes down next episode, in all honestly though, the show has done the parallel of Jack and Rebecca to Randall and Beth, so I guess we were always leading here in a way.

Again.. Kevin is my favorite. I’m not sure how I feel about Zoe and him.

I hate that I’m already over Kate and Toby’s story because I know that sounds awful. It’s terrivle when this happens in real life beyond repair but for this show, it’s just kind of a boring story because I think there’s only a few ways for this story to end. I mean one the baby doesn’t make it but they already had that happen to Kate and Toby and I don’t they would make them go through that again. This show loves to make people heartbroken but even that’s overkill. Or two the baby makes it, the only thing i can see happening is the baby having some difficulties. So there is that. But otherwise.. I’m not sure what the next thing is for them in this story? 

[jackjill89]

I found both Randall and Beth to be ridiculous this episode. 

Beth shouldn't have even asked about cancelling out of the dinner -- she knew it was important to him and she made the commitment. Her coworkers would have understood. There are some things that trump other things. She could have explained to her boss. 

The message he left was contemptible. Horrible. Yikes.

Not liking either of them right now. They have some serious work to do on their marriage. They are both being very bullheaded. 

[ClareWalks]

I'm thinking this entire Beth/dance job is just Beth trying to give Randall a taste of his own medicine. "Oh, you have all these supposed lifelong dreams (never stated before) that require the family's unconditional, unflinching support and you have a dogged refusal to compromise? Two can play that game." Although with the long commute, Randall is still The Worst.

[emieloo]

I’ll be the Lone Ranger here, but I literally can.not.stand. Beth.  She is such a royal ‘see you next Tuesday’!  You don’t make prior commitments, especially to your spouse, and then back out for drinks with the girls from work!  She spends  far too much time trying to prove her own self-inflated importance.  Randall has always been my favorite character and I tolerated Beth because of him, but she’s become quite intolerable as of late. 

I can’t even get started on Kate and her whiny, sulky, “poor, poor me”, bratty self.  She’s the one who needs to grow the hell up! 

[PepSinger]

2 hours ago, emieloo said:

You don’t make prior commitments, especially to your spouse, and then back out for drinks with the girls from work!

It wasn't "drinks with the girls from work." The people who run the studio wanted to talk about the future of the studio, which could've had a major impact on Beth's future. She was invited to a business outing. I don't see any reason to belittle Beth's career and aspirations.

[PepSinger]

2 hours ago, emieloo said:

I can’t even get started on Kate and her whiny, sulky, “poor, poor me”, bratty self.  She’s the one who needs to grow the hell up! 

Well, her child is sick and in the hospital. I think some sympathy is warranted.

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, PepSinger said:

It wasn't "drinks with the girls from work." The people who run the studio wanted to talk about the future of the studio, which could've had a major impact on Beth's future. She was invited to a business outing. I don't see any reason to belittle Beth's career and aspirations.

Real business meetings aren't usually held in bars.

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Real business meetings aren't usually held in bars.

I think it was in the middle. It wasn't a formal business meeting...but it also wasn't just a casual night out for the dance teachers. So, Beth wasn't obligated to go, but I think she thought that going out with the teachers (and I guess the owner of the dance studio) when they told her that they'd be discussing the future of the dance studio in a less formal setting would be good for her career. Not only that, but getting invited out as a new teacher? That can be as important as Randall's events when he was running in the election. Although, yeah, it was more right for her to go to Randall's dinner, which she did eventually do, to her credit. Randall did find a way to cover for her at the dinner when she was late and he thought she wasn't coming, and the host/hostess seemed to understand. It IS a far drive for Beth right after work so she could have said no initially. I get why she said yes, and even Randall gave her an out if she wanted it, so her decision to initially go is on her. And that's why her biggest thing is needing to speak up and be more assertive instead of cowering away, letting Randall bulldoze her and, more important, being super passive aggressive and holds things in until she explodes. 

[PepSinger]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think it was in the middle. It wasn't a formal business meeting...but it also wasn't just a casual night out for the dance teachers

Exactly. It wasn’t a party invitation; actual business was going to be discussed.

[Infie]

On 3/24/2019 at 7:22 PM, MsJamieDornan said:

Real business meetings aren't usually held in bars.

I cannot disagree more.  I've been in business for over 30 years, and the absolute fact is that the executive decision-making is almost always done socially.  Golf, drinks, lunches, etc.  The decisions are communicated in emails and boardrooms, and the facilitations are performed in offices.  But the decisions?  Those are made in social situations. 

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, Infie said:

I cannot disagree more.  I've been in business for over 30 years, and the absolute fact is that the executive decision-making is almost always done socially.  Golf, drinks, lunches, etc.  The decisions are communicated in emails and boardrooms, and the facilitations are performed in offices.  But the decisions?  Those are made in social situations. 

I absolutely agree with this.  And more to the point I think that is why it would be a mistake to make yourself unavailable to those right off the bat at a new job.  The chances that you might not get invited to the next time big changes happen?  They go up a lot.

[deirdra]

My first thought was that Beth might have asked for a charger to shore up her claim that she was caught in traffic jam with a dead phone and couldn't call.  She may have been out with her colleagues for 2.5 of the 3 hours, with plenty of time to ignore Randall's messages and enough juice in her phone to hear his message and then decided to show up to make Randall feel like a fool.

As mentioned earlier, Randall has always gotten his way since the pilot while Beth played second fiddle; why should she always be the one to defer her dreams? Just enroll the girls in some after-school programs. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by deirdra

[MsJamieDornan]

5 hours ago, Infie said:

I cannot disagree more.  I've been in business for over 30 years, and the absolute fact is that the executive decision-making is almost always done socially.  Golf, drinks, lunches, etc.  The decisions are communicated in emails and boardrooms, and the facilitations are performed in offices.  But the decisions?  Those are made in social situations. 

It really depends on the type of business. But, I have to disagree with you. A lot of the ground work is laid out at social gatherings but the big decisions aren't made socially. JMO

[PRgal]

10 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I absolutely agree with this.  And more to the point I think that is why it would be a mistake to make yourself unavailable to those right off the bat at a new job.  The chances that you might not get invited to the next time big changes happen?  They go up a lot.

And any chance of a quick promotion goes down the drain, too.  I think it's a mistake some women make in the corporate world.  

[Pallas]

Beth has a challenge that someone once described to me this way: "She's a hotshot who's attracted to other hotshots." Other hotshots who know what they want, and push the pedal down to get it.

And around these driven folks -- starting with her mother -- Beth clams up and goes along...until sometimes, at the last minute, her core resistance rises up and chokes her. Then she reacts, reflexively: she flees the room; she fights back in absentia. I think we're meant to see this as a sequence that recurs, a lot more than we've been shown, just like Randall's episodes of escalating tunnel vision. 

So when Beth didn't show up at the dinner and didn't take his calls, Randall may have had some cause to suspect she'd blown him off. A few hours earlier, Beth had phoned him to cancel for dinner, and explain why. She'd reminded him that her work was as legitimate as his, which Randall of course affirmed, like the good boy he is.

But speaking very deliberately, Randall then reminded Beth of his efforts to be a good Councilman, husband and father, and how he was now asking her for "this one thing" (not the last time he'd use that phrase) for the sake of his job. He ended, "Are you hearing me?" Beth paused -- clammed up -- then replied, "Yeah I hear you. You've made it clear what you want." And hung up on him. 

Did either call the other back? "Why should I!" they might each have protested. Randall's chief of staff had kept waving for him to take a call. Beth had a class and a nightmare round trip to prepare for, plus, righteousness in her corner. She knew that she'd be there: of course, she'd drive alone for 5-6 hours after work that night, to spend two hours with (more of!) her husband's people and her husband at his warp-nerd, smarmy worst, because Randall never met a boss he didn't court and he'd never learned how to say 'no' to anyone but her...

[bybrandy]

8 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

But, I have to disagree with you. A lot of the ground work is laid out at social gatherings but the big decisions aren't made socially.

But the people laying the groundwork at the social gatherings.  They are the ones moving up.  They are the ones put in charge.

[Blakeston]

On 3/24/2019 at 9:54 PM, PepSinger said:

Exactly. It wasn’t a party invitation; actual business was going to be discussed.

And not just any business - the purpose was to discuss the future of the studio.

It was important for Randall to be at his dinner, and it was important for Beth to be there for drinks with her coworkers. I see no reason why either needed a spouse present.

[Sharyn]

On 3/21/2019 at 5:58 AM, JudyObscure said:

Right there.  That's what I'm talking about and why I thought it was unnecessary for Beth to bother the hostess with what amounts to a personal chore that could have waited until she got home.

As someone who doesn't own a cell phone and was recently in one of those accidents,( for which all my friends said I should have one) and didn't need one at all, I think people like Beth have bought into the phone company's scare tactics of sales.  She can make it home without one.  Having one at the ever  ready is why Randall said things that he would never have said if he had, had a few minutes to calm down before he got home.  The Pearson kids, along with how to do laundry and dishes, should have been taught to call 911 in an emergency (parents can't stop bleeding over the phone) and to wait till the parents get home for non-emergencies. These phones have turned people into helpless babies who can't go to store and make a milk decision without a conference call

It is possible to delay your own dreams for the sake of your children without being bitter and resentful over it. In fact, for some people, The Dream is to raise happy healthy children. Kids don't gain much by growing up with parents who are never home because they're traveling for their dream job or going to college at night while the kids have to stay home alone.  If parents aren't ready to put the needs of their children first for a few years maybe they shouldn't have any.

I LOVE your comments!  You are so insightful.  

[meep.meep]

On 3/22/2019 at 11:09 PM, Violetgoblin6 said:

Yup, same here. We did have a sixth grade "graduation" dinner and dance back in good old 1987. I just assumed it was a sixth grade graduation dance at Kevin and Kate's school (although it said middle school-weird). 

It was clearly just a middle school/junior high school dance.  At my junior high and at my kids' middle schools, they were held three to four times per year.  No graduation was taking place.  And Jack and Rebecca were the worst chaperones ever.

On 3/24/2019 at 3:10 PM, PepSinger said:

Well, her child is sick and in the hospital. I think some sympathy is warranted.

I thought the parts of the episode with Kate and Toby showed their huge growth since the birth of their son.  It's too bad that Randall's vile words and behavior have over shadowed what should have been the driving emphasis of the episode.   Really good acting on both of their parts.

[Katy M]

51 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

And not just any business - the purpose was to discuss the future of the studio.

It was important for Randall to be at his dinner, and it was important for Beth to be there for drinks with her coworkers. I see no reason why either needed a spouse present.

You would think if it was so important,t hey would have given people more than an hour's notice.  Surely, Beth couldn't have been the only to have other plans that night, or kids to get home to, or whatever.

[MsJamieDornan]

1 hour ago, Sharyn said:

It is possible to delay your own dreams for the sake of your children without being bitter and resentful over it

This is so true ! And you know what,,in life, some are never able to have their dream job.

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

You would think if it was so important, they would have given people more than an hour's notice.  Surely, Beth couldn't have been the only to have other plans that night, or kids to get home to, or whatever.

Likewise, only more so, for a small dinner hosted by the City Council President and spouse at their home, in the middle of the workweek. Two days' notice? This would not happen. The idea seems to have been to make it more feasible for Beth to think of cancelling, a few hours before.  

[bybrandy]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

You would think if it was so important,t hey would have given people more than an hour's notice.  Surely, Beth couldn't have been the only to have other plans that night, or kids to get home to, or whatever.

I mean it would be nice.  But nice isn't exactly required in business.  And dance studios aren't always owned by the most business minded individuals (some are but not all).   This isn't a fortune 500 company where you have a board to answer to.   This studio is more than likely owned by a woman named Claire who had a dream and who periodically gets great ideas.  And when she gets said ideas she says to the women working for me, "hey, why don't we have drinks and discuss my great idea" and all the women who work there go,  And at drinks Claire says, "I'm thinking of expanding."  And either Beth is there to say, "OMG, I was an urban planner and I know what you need to do" or a dance instructor named Jill is going to be the one to slide in and say, "My brother-in-law Tom is an architect."  And in one case Beth is the right hand person on expansion and in the other case Jill is.    That is just how these things go. 
 

[AzraeltheCat]

On 3/23/2019 at 2:44 AM, bros402 said:

THAT'S where I recognized her from. I recognized the voice, I could not place her, it was such a quick thing.

I guess she's a fan of the show 😛

She was also the manager of the Doublemeat Palace (i.e., Buffy's boss) on Buffy the Vampire Slayer. 

[Mrs. DuRona]

On 3/20/2019 at 8:02 PM, gameshowjunkie said:

Has Zoe had her tubes tied? If she knows she doesn't want kids that's probably best.

Yeah, good luck with that.  Most Doctors/Insurance won't do it if you're under a certain age or have already had children.  They think that you might change your mind. The only exception would be if it was medically necessary (ie: uterine cancer).

[doodlebug]

9 minutes ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

Yeah, good luck with that.  Most Doctors/Insurance won't do it if you're under a certain age or have already had children.  They think that you might change your mind. The only exception would be if it was medically necessary (ie: uterine cancer).

As a doctor who has done tubal ligations on more than a few childless women who decided that they didn't want kids; I would disagree.  If Zoe were under 30, she might have some pushback from doctors who would recommend trying something reversible like an IUD first; but, at her age, it would not be too difficult for her to have a tubal ligation if that is what she decided to do.

As for insurance companies, it would be illegal for them to devise criteria to refuse to cover tubal ligations.  If the policy covers it, it is covered.  Even Medicaid allows tubal ligations in women who are over 21 and who are willing to sign papers and wait 30 days before going through with it.  There is nowhere on the consent that puts the number of children a woman has had into the equation.  And, yes, I have done tubal ligations on women who were only 21.  They had compelling medical and/or social reasons for wanting it and I performed the procedure.

Edited April 4, 2019 by doodlebug

[Scarlett45]

On 4/4/2019 at 2:49 PM, doodlebug said:

As a doctor who has done tubal ligations on more than a few childless women who decided that they didn't want kids; I would disagree.  If Zoe were under 30, she might have some pushback from doctors who would recommend trying something reversible like an IUD first; but, at her age, it would not be too difficult for her to have a tubal ligation if that is what she decided to do.

As for insurance companies, it would be illegal for them to devise criteria to refuse to cover tubal ligations.  If the policy covers it, it is covered.  Even Medicaid allows tubal ligations in women who are over 21 and who are willing to sign papers and wait 30 days before going through with it.  There is nowhere on the consent that puts the number of children a woman has had into the equation.  And, yes, I have done tubal ligations on women who were only 21.  They had compelling medical and/or social reasons for wanting it and I performed the procedure.

You’re a great doctor @doodlebug. In my childfree group a few women have wanted their tubes tied and had to find a different doctor because their current doctor wouldn’t do it (big eye roll). IRL I think it’s more likely Zoe just has an IUD. 

I am really glad the show brought up this topic. I definitely understand why Zoe would assume Kevin wasn’t set on kids, given his age and the fact that he had never mentioned it before. But I agree with the poster upthread that said over 30 couples need to discuss these things. 

On 4/4/2019 at 2:39 PM, Mrs. DuRona said:

Yeah, good luck with that.  Most Doctors/Insurance won't do it if you're under a certain age or have already had children.  They think that you might change your mind. The only exception would be if it was medically necessary (ie: uterine cancer).

I think while there are wonderful ethical doctors like @doodlebug and my Mom, there are those that pull the “you’ll change your mind” card although that’s none of their business and force you to find a different doctor. Given that there are long term options for women (unlike men) a lot of childfree women just get an IUD- easier and less social pushback. 

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 11:07 PM, MsJamieDornan said:

But she made Randall come to a recital that she wasn't even performing in. He showed up but that wasn't enough, she wanted him there so he could hear the boss praise her. What is she? A child? That was unnecessary.

at the start of the show, I was very "Beth, get over yourself." She was annoyed he didn't get there in time to hear the praise? seeing the recital wasn't enough? that was petty and insecure. most jobs don't involve public praise in the first place. And you are right, does he really need to be at the recital? she is not dancing. I can see showing up if you can but on a tight schedule, probably not.

But. . Randall went off the deep end with his voice mail. Awful. I gasped.

I agreed with (I think Randall) saying they've been out of sync. So they need to get that stuff out and fully addressed.

[millennium]

On 3/19/2019 at 10:12 PM, Lady Calypso said:

So....yeah, I think Randall can officially be called the worst Pearson this season.

This makes me think of the old Keith Olbermann show on MSNBC.  Every night he would name someone "The Worst Person in the World."   Perhaps it could be updated to "The Worst Pearson in the World."

Sophie is one of the most likable characters.   It's sad she and Kevin couldn't make it work.

The vodka in the water bottle trick was a nice twist.   It reminds me of a notorious temperance speaker of the 1880s who used to sit in front of crowds preaching the evils of alcohol, pausing to take a long draught from a pitcher of water on his podium.  Of course it was vodka.   He was heard to remark after one of his speeches, "Lord, what fools these people are."