S03.E14: The Graduates

[Tikichick]

16 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

I don't think Kate and Toby's baby will die but I think there will be an extended stay in the hospital for the baby, which will no doubt put a huge strain on Kate and Toby's marriage, as well as on each of them individually. Just my guess. It would be too "blah" to have the baby be just fine and dandy and go home quickly - this is a soap opera after all, and what better way to be dramatic than to have a newborn's life hanging in the balance?

What if baby's ultimately fine and Kate isn't?  I'm not expecting Kate's demise, but a stroke leaving her with limited mobility wouldn't surprise me. 

[Katy M]

35 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

It would be too "blah" to have the baby be just fine and dandy and go home quickly - this is a soap opera after all, and what better way to be dramatic than to have a newborn's life hanging in the balance?

It would also be completely unrealistic as she's only 28 weeks along.  They baby will most likely live, but he/she (did they find out, I can't remember) isn't going straight home from the hospital.  Not for at the very least a few weeks.

[PRgal]

18 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

What if baby's ultimately fine and Kate isn't?  I'm not expecting Kate's demise, but a stroke leaving her with limited mobility wouldn't surprise me. 

Since it's supposed to be something TV has apparently never "dealt with before" (or whatever the quote was), I won't be surprised if that were the case.  We've seen tons of premature baby storylines and a few where babies (or moms) don't make it.  There have also been kids with special needs on TV, but I don't think I've seen one dealing with special needs due to prematurity.  And at 28 weeks, they'll be in the NICU for a very, very long time.  Likely for at least 8 or 9 weeks (my son was a 35-weeker and was in the hospital for 11 days.  They wouldn't let us out until he didn't have to rely on a feeding tube for 48 hours).  😞 

[DFWGina]

On 3/5/2019 at 9:12 PM, Katy M said:

But, the writers are artificially creating conflict, because, again, those kids are old enough to stay with Deja. 

On 3/5/2019 at 11:45 PM, tennisgurl said:

And, best of all, Kate actually noticed that something was off with Kevin, and went to check on him! Kevin was almost dead on his feet last time he was spiraling into addiction before anyone noticed something was up with him, and had to endanger another family member to get anyone to notice he was in trouble, so at least now everyone knows whats up. And Kate actually went off to help him

On 3/6/2019 at 12:44 AM, 3 is enough said:

Weird question, but I was very distracted in the scenes with Kate.  It looked like she got smacked and had a bump on her right cheek (left facing the camera).  I first noticed it when she was in bed and Toby woke her up, but it was still there during the graduation.  Don't know if it was camera angles or what but I never noticed that before.  Am I the only one who saw it? 

NO! It was bugging me and I couldn't decide if it was her cheek bone or a zit or a bruise.

On 3/6/2019 at 11:15 AM, fsuheater said:

Many people in this thread are presuming the commission spot is a full time position. I live in Florida and have done a lot work with city commissions and local government councils. While city official roles vary, the vast majority of local government officials have full time jobs. In many cases, they are practicing attorneys, doctors, etc. I don’t think of a commissioner as a full time position.

Agreed - I do think in larger cities the pay is better and they are more full-time.  I know in the small town I grew up in, it was a very part-time job which pretty much just had "stipend" type money vs a true "salary".  I notice someone mentioned the pay in Philly is mid 6 figures so likely FT.

23 hours ago, OhSarah69 said:

On point 4 above, I love our girl Beth…but she has to own some part of this (not that I liked Randall’s speech to her in the least). 

I thought he was going to quit too and I was terribly shocked that he didn't.  I do think Beth should have volunteered to switch of night classes asap.  I believe parents should actually raise their own children instead of dumping them off on sitters, grandparents and siblings.  Thus why I do not have any children!  I think this dream is a stupid addition to the show.  Their girls aren't even in dance (that we know of) which is odd given it was Beth's "dream".    And all those years she wasn't working outside the home before the job she was just terminated from?  Why wouldn't she have danced or taught dance then?  That would have been much more plausible than how it was introduced to us now... I am not buying "dream" - I am calling it her shady way to escape from corporate America since she is scared of failing again.... 

Also - if this is a bona fide, actual "dream" -- I seriously doubt that mid year a dance studio had all kinds of openings for teachers.  Most seem to follow the school calendar and it would be "next semester/season" before a new teacher would be needed.  I could see her subbing in for teachers as a start to get back into dance.  At which point, the girls could go to the studio with her and hang in the "office" or "lounge" and do homework.  

21 hours ago, Jillybean said:

Since all the obvious topics have been covered, I'll just jump in to say I was mildly surprised Kate didn't take Toby's last name (whatever it may be) when they got married. Although of course being a Pearson is the awesomest thing ever, and why wouldn't she want to keep her dad's name? I guess I just saw her being more traditional. But nope, Kate Emily Pearson got her diploma. 

I am not sure we've ever heard his last name spoken....

21 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I still believe  that they shouldn't have had kids if they were going to  put their careers, passions, first, ahead of their kids.  Even as teenagers, those kids maybe able to take care of themselves, but they can also get into all sorts of trouble or go through a lot of issues that their parents never hear about because their parents are too self-involved. 

Agreed...

My favorite parts were of the big 3 as babies and showing Kevin hanging onto/reaching out for Kate.  I almost didn't recognize Miguel at the graduation.   I can fanwave a lot but glad they are addressing Randall and Beth's financial situation.  

Rebecca should have insisted that Kate walk her high school graduation.  You would think she would do everything in her power to help things go smoothly instead of rocking the boat had she been anyone other than Kate...

[Dowel Jones]

Maybe the baby will be fine, Kate will be fine, but the tests reveal that Toby isn't the father.  Ha!

[nkotb]

That's never been done before that I know of! Good call, & that would be an interesting twist. Either way, Toby will be the 3rd guy in her life in a matter of days, first, baby Jack/Jackson/Pearson, second, Kevin, third, Toblerone. 

[smartymarty]

Was something said in the episode that Kate's life is in jeopardy right now, or is that just speculation on viewers' part? I didn't think the situation merited Randall flying out immediately considering Kate's husband, mother and other brother (and sister-in-law's sister) were already there. Husband and I both rolled our eyes at that. If I felt that Randall and Beth were still really rich, okay, but in our families, most would call and be concerned/pray, but not fly across the country last minute. Of course, in TIU land, money, time and space are not realistic.

Also, could Toby not have gotten *any* college official to come to the graduation of four of its students?! Right on campus grounds? Ah, but then we would not have been treated to his silly costume and speech.

I did like Rebecca saying to Kate that she thought Kate graduated "right on time." I wished she'd told teen Kate, who wasn't talking to Kevin (but was talking to Randall?) that everyone mourns differently, so STFU about your brother.

I did not find it cute that Kevin and Kate had a special twinsies bond. Instead, I felt sorry for Randall. Also, while it's nice that the siblings support each other, make some friends already, people!

10 minutes ago, DFWGina said:

I am not buying "dream" - I am calling it her shady way to escape from corporate America since she is scared of failing again.... 

I think that explains the plot much better than what the writers might have intended. I hope you are right.

12 minutes ago, DFWGina said:

I seriously doubt that mid year a dance studio had all kinds of openings for teachers. 

See comment above about realism in this show.

[Katy M]

24 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Maybe the baby will be fine, Kate will be fine, but the tests reveal that Toby isn't the father.  Ha!

That would be interesting, but since the eggs and sperm had their party outside, it wouldn't lead to a cheating story, but some weird medical malpractice thing.

13 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Was something said in the episode that Kate's life is in jeopardy right now, or is that just speculation on viewers' part? I didn't think the situation merited Randall flying out immediately considering Kate's husband, mother and other brother (and sister-in-law's sister) were already there.

It's always been a high risk pregnancy, and the early labor isn't a good sign.  Even though I'm usually against these people flying cross country at a moment's notice every other week, this time it was very much merited.

[smartymarty]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

It's always been a high risk pregnancy, and the early labor isn't a good sign.

Thank you. Yes, if risk of Kate's death, then definitely the flight out ASAP.

[Tikichick]

Let's face it, even if Randall's council position is technically part-time, it's one of his passion projects and he's a well known overachiever.  Therefore it's clearly going to be a bonebreaking, 90-hour a week gig.

[bichonblitz]

11 hours ago, debraran said:

I honestly don't remember the calendar but wasn't it 2 days during the week and Saturday?

It was 2 mornings and 3 evenings. 

[Neurochick]

Sometimes I wonder how the "Big Three" would be if Jack hadn't died.  

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Sometimes I wonder how the "Big Three" would be if Jack hadn't died.  

I think Randall and Kevin would be pretty much the same.  Randall's big thing is anxiety and overdoing things and he had those tendencies before Jack died.  Kevin would have followed Sophie to CA after grad either way and fallen into his actor lifestyle.  Plus, I don't think either one of them are that wrapped up in Jack's death beyond their SB Sunday and thanksgiving traditions, and there are plenty of well-adjusted people that still have holiday/birthday, etc traditions and times to honor their dead loved ones.  Yes, they think about him and miss him sometimes, but their lives don't revolve around his death.

Kate's the one who was most affected.  Jack died at pretty much the worst time as far as Kate's development goes.  If he had died when she was a young child, he wouldn't have been there to constantly undermine Rebecca and those two would probably have had a much better relationship.  Kate wouldn't have all her self-worth wrapped up in Jack, etc.  If Jack had waited until Kate's early to mid-20s (or later) to die, I think she would have been more OK. She would have gone to college and made some friends.  She would have gained some confidence outside of Jack.  But, Jack dying at a time when Kate felt he was the only one she was getting positive feedback from and at the exact time that she was about to make life plans and stopped them, stunted her growth.  Add to that the fact that she blamed herself because he went back in for her dog, and it was just never going to end well for Kate.  I hope Rebecca's right and now is the right time for her. It seems she's finally ready to move on.  So, it will be ironic if she dies now.

[ShadowFacts]

5 hours ago, Katy M said:

They baby will most likely live, but he/she (did they find out, I can't remember) isn't going straight home from the hospital.  Not for at the very least a few weeks.

Yes, he, they had blu-ish candy inside their reveal cake.  So it's little Jack.  Or Jack Toby.  Or Toby Jack. 

[Christina87]

So I haven't read all four pages yet, but I noticed an inconsistency. At the beginning, jack said that their video camera didn't have sound. However, I clearly remember them watching footage at some point of the kids as very young babies, where's jack and Rebecca were cheering them on. They were definitely younger than the kids here. Just a small inconsistency!

[ThisIsMe]

10 hours ago, Biggie B said:

At this point, the only iteration of Randall I like is the teen Randall, and even then, it may be only because the young actor is doing such a good job in the role.

I agree that the actor playing teen Randall is outstanding -- as is the actor who plays him as a younger boy.  He is my favorite Pearson kid because he is the only one who is not self-centered and obnoxious.  Granted, that's the norm for most kids ... but Randall has always been portrayed as sweet, sensitive, intuitive, and genuinely caring ... which makes it an even tougher pill to swallow that he is acting like such a jerk this season especially.

[Kirkydee]

One thing I haven't seen posted is Kate's monitor.  I rewatched and paused when the camera showed the numbers (presumably Kate's vital signs) . No mention of the baby's heartbeat.  They had the 'sound' of a fetal heart monitor.  But it was going too slow for a fetus.  

[Emily Thrace]

11 hours ago, PRgal said:

Since it's supposed to be something TV has apparently never "dealt with before" (or whatever the quote was), I won't be surprised if that were the case.  We've seen tons of premature baby storylines and a few where babies (or moms) don't make it.  There have also been kids with special needs on TV, but I don't think I've seen one dealing with special needs due to prematurity.  And at 28 weeks, they'll be in the NICU for a very, very long time.  Likely for at least 8 or 9 weeks (my son was a 35-weeker and was in the hospital for 11 days.  They wouldn't let us out until he didn't have to rely on a feeding tube for 48 hours).  😞 

One thing I have considered is that it might be that Kate is actually carrying twins. Its not unheard of in bariatric patients. Its rare these days with improvements in ultrasound tech but still theoretically possible. Especially given the weirdness they had around the first ultrasound they showed. The baby was supposedly just in an odd position but that position could be concealing a twin. That would be something not shown on tv before. 

Something about the way the episode emphasized Kevin and Kate's connection made me think that might be the direction they go in.

[bros402]

14 hours ago, MrsWitter said:

We all start out, are nourished and cushioned by that same fluid. It’s not gross. Kevin would have been able to deal. 

Everyone has done an awesome job of breaking down all inconsistencies, etc. in Pearsonland, but I have one minor quibble that nobody has mentioned:

Kate could not have possibly been watching Felicity. I am the same age as the Big Three, graduated high school the same year and LOVED Felicity, especially because it began the fall of my freshman year of college so I very melodramatically felt like it was paralleling my life. The show premiered in September 1998. So, unless King Jack got a bootleg copy of the pilot and rescued it from the fire and left it for Katie Girl to watch after he died, Kate was not watching Felicity in the spring of 1998. 

For the record, despite being the same age as the Big Three, I thankfully do not feel like this show is melodramatically paralleling my life.

She could have been watching it - back in the late 90s, early 2000s, my parents were part of some program where we got like 3 TV pilots during pilot season to watch, and mail in our thoughts on the pilots and what we liked/didn't like. I think one or two of the shows we watched over like the 3-4 year period actually got picked up. Maybe Felicity was part of something like that 😛

[PRgal]

7 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

One thing I have considered is that it might be that Kate is actually carrying twins. Its not unheard of in bariatric patients. Its rare these days with improvements in ultrasound tech but still theoretically possible. Especially given the weirdness they had around the first ultrasound they showed. The baby was supposedly just in an odd position but that position could be concealing a twin. That would be something not shown on tv before. 

Something about the way the episode emphasized Kevin and Kate's connection made me think that might be the direction they go in.

But wouldn't various ultrasounds throughout her pregnancy have detected more than one heart beat?  I think they only put one embryo in, so this pregnancy would be of identical twins - should it be twins. 

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

The baby was supposedly just in an odd position but that position could be concealing a twin. That would be something not shown on tv before. 

What would be something not shown before?  Certainly not twins? Not twins hiding positions. That was done on Full House.  Surprise twins?  That was done on Friends.  Plus, it was probably done a few times on early TV when technology wasn't as up to snuff.  IRL, my best friend was a surprise twin.  I guess technically her sister was the surprise since she was second. But, anyway, that was 1975.  So, there were probably a few shows in the '50s and '60s that had surprise twins.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

What would be something not shown before?  Certainly not twins? Not twins hiding positions. That was done on Full House.  Surprise twins?  That was done on Friends.  Plus, it was probably done a few times on early TV when technology wasn't as up to snuff.  IRL, my best friend was a surprise twin.  I guess technically her sister was the surprise since she was second. But, anyway, that was 1975.  So, there were probably a few shows in the '50s and '60s that had surprise twins.

This began with an interview with Chrissy Metz, and they are all prone to hyperbole/puffery in those things.  She could have meant she never saw it before, etc.  Surprise twins seems like something they would like to pull off.  Maybe something about Kate's anatomy hiding one baby, they aren't too concerned with absolute credibility (many examples).  Though my nephews were surprise twins in 1990, in the ultrasound era, so I could buy it.

[ThisIsMe]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Surprise twins seems like something they would like to pull off. 

Yes, I can definitely see them going in this direction.  But to do it right, they would need to come up with a third baby (a "Randall") for Kate & Toby to adopt.  

[BoogieBurns]

On 3/6/2019 at 2:27 PM, Katy M said:

Thousand of people at a high school graduation?  Did each graduate have 10 or more guests?

My graduating class was 500 people, and the ceremony was held in the same amphitheater as the Beyonce concert the week before. My family was 17 people.

1,000 is CRAZY low.

[topanga]

4 minutes ago, BoogieBurns said:

My graduating class was 500 people, and the ceremony was held in the same amphitheater as the Beyonce concert the week before. My family was 17 people.

1,000 is CRAZY low.

Aww, I thought you were going to say that Beyonce showed up at your graduation. Congratulations anyway. LOL

On 3/6/2019 at 7:11 PM, stonehaven said:

The grief storyline made me weep as echos of that appear in my own life...lost a close friend 2 years ago this time and grief never really goes away...Toby really is like Jack though..and Kevin's storyline made my heart break. Beth and Randall? Annoying..at least Randall but it seems weird that Randall's storyline are almost always independent of each other.

What this episode showed me is that Randall has always felt on the fringe of the Big 3 relationship. When they were toddlers, Kevin and Kate had their special twin bond, and Randall was just there. the parents actually had to rearrange them in the stroller in order for Kevin and Kate to be able hug and stop crying. At the graduation party, Randall hung back on the porch (like a creeper, LOL) until Kevin invited him to join his and Kate's conversation. I don't think the twins deliberately excluded him, but they did and still do have a strong bond that other siblings usually don't have. And Rebecca's blatant favoritism toward Randall made Kevin resent him a little, also. 

For the first time I can remember, I liked Rebecca's storyline and thought Mandy Moore did a great job with her dramatic scenes.

And for the first time I can remember, I liked Toby's big gesture. His little graduation ceremony seemed to make the graduates and their family/friends very happy. 

[amypdx]

On 3/5/2019 at 10:44 PM, 3 is enough said:

Weird question, but I was very distracted in the scenes with Kate.  It looked like she got smacked and had a bump on her right cheek (left facing the camera).  I first noticed it when she was in bed and Toby woke her up, but it was still there during the graduation.  Don't know if it was camera angles or what but I never noticed that before.  Am I the only one who saw it? 

Otherwise I liked the episode except for Randall asking Beth to give up on the dance teaching for a while.  I wanted to smack him.

I think it’s bad kardashian-type makeup contouring to try to make her face look thinner. It was bothering me too. 

[Rockstar99435]

I think I would've liked the Deja/Teacher plot point better if the teacher had removed her name but the students all figured out it was Deja because they knew she was Tess and Annie's foster sister. Posting her essay with her name attached is such a bone-head move. Protecting students' privacy is so important. When I was getting my teaching degree, they covered it in multiple classes. I just don't buy that Deja's teacher wouldn't have removed her name before posting it. But I do buy that she didn't think through that the students would be able to figure out who the mystery writer was and still start calling Deja 'pontiac.'

[bros402]

17 hours ago, PRgal said:

But wouldn't various ultrasounds throughout her pregnancy have detected more than one heart beat?  I think they only put one embryo in, so this pregnancy would be of identical twins - should it be twins. 

One kid could've been hiding behind the other or a million other contrivances.

Also, Kate was a multiple - she has a higher chance of multiples than the average person.

[debraran]

On 3/6/2019 at 6:49 AM, Biggie B said:

I think some or all of the girls have after-school activities to which they need to be driven. 

There might be something about Deja not being alone with the fostering contract but I'm not sure. I do know they are old enough to not have an expensive sitter who can "handle" Deja and a gay daughter. That still ticks me off although most of my coworkers missed it.

[doodlebug]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 9:14 PM, shoovenbooty said:

Someone who knows please fill me in. Maybe this was discussed and I missed it. Kevin mentioned they gave Kate a shot to stop her labor. After her water has already broken, what does that help, exactly? I know it's best to keep the baby in the womb for as many days, weeks, months as possible before it's full-term, but what will a few extra hours matter if she's in labor now and will presumably give birth to a preemie?

In real life, they'd be giving her continuous medication through a drip, usually something called Magnesium Sulfate.  It wouldn't stop active labor and it wouldn't allow her to go full term, but it can give them time to give her steroids and antibiotics.  The steroids help the baby's lungs mature more quickly.  At 28 weeks, it's not going to prevent respiratory distress, but will make it less severe.  The amniotic sac protects the baby from infections.  Once it is broken, both the baby and Kate are at risk for infection which the antibiotics can help prevent.  Magnesium sulfate, in addition to stalling labor for a couple days on average, also seems to decrease the risk of neurologic complications like cerebral palsy in preemies.

[doodlebug]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 2:51 AM, bros402 said:

So Kate's 28 weeks along - if she gives birth now, that kid is gonna be fine - her doctors should have explained to her that she is at a higher risk of giving birth early - and once you're past 26 weeks, it is much less scary - especially nowadays. I was born at 25 weeks 28 years ago. I had a 3% chance of survival, 15% chance of bleed on the brain - didn't die, no brain bleed (Or maybe it was the reverse for the percentages, I forget). Sure, the preemie is a white male, so the odds aren't all in his favor - but it could be a week earlier, or a whole bunch of other factors.

I wonder if they are gonna have the baby come at the end of the episode, or will they leave it for next season premiere just to screw with people

Not really.  Babies born at 28 weeks these days have about a 90% survival rate which is certainly better than it used to be, but not the same as at term.  That survival also depends on a lot of high tech stuff and months in the NICU, most parents would be  worried about that even with no other issues.  However, in the 28 weekers who survive, there is a significant risk of ongoing problems; they're at risk for cerebral palsy, developmental delays, learning disabilities, blindness, deafness, asthma and other chronic lung problems, susceptibility to infection and a host of other stuff.  

I practiced OB for more than 30 years and have delivered more than my share of 28 weekers.  Sure, this baby could well end up perfectly fine, but there is also a significant chance that it won't.  BTW, it would've been better if Kate's baby was a girl; baby boys do significantly worse than girls when born prematurely.  We women are not the weaker sex.

[Tosia]

On 3/6/2019 at 1:36 PM, Seelouis said:

My graduating class had just under 600 kids, so if each had only 2 guests that’s over a thousand. 

Topic: team Beth all the way. 

My 1972 baby boomer class was 550 kids, in a very diverse , first generation American ethnic area...Mexican, Irish, Polish, Black, Bohemian, Croatian, Italian, etc..... so alot of extended family  members lived together in giant old houses. 

Good times. 

Team Beth.

   Where are the parent car pools, Granma and Miguel, etc.....

Even in my son's ice hockey team, that covered different schools,  we drove kids whose parents worked and asked other parents for rides if something came up.  It's part of the social fun that comes with your child's sports/band/extra curricular activities.  We went to dinner with parents or shared a drink/coffee while the kids practiced. It was OUR  social life as well during those years.  I miss the camaraderie, now that he's grown up. 

On tv, not just this show, people exist in tiny bubbles of screen characters vs. Neighborhoods, or schools, or just a bigger world of people that we all live in, in real time. 

[Tosia]

On 3/7/2019 at 5:43 PM, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, he, they had blu-ish candy inside their reveal cake.  So it's little Jack.  Or Jack Toby.  Or Toby Jack. 

Or Tack?  🙂

[Pallas]

The new information that Randall received that day was that Deja preferred the security of her current routine to the chance to skip a grade of school (and join her peers). She chose not to speak up while the family plans were being made -- which seems very in character -- but let slip her real feelings in the course of addressing a point that affects only her.

That question aside: Deja's 13 years old (she was 12 last year), was abandoned by her mother less than a year ago, and was adopted in December. Should her new parents really put her right to work, babysitting their two younger daughters three times a week?  

[Katy M]

44 minutes ago, Pallas said:

The new information that Randall received that day was that Deja preferred the security of her current routine to the chance to skip a grade of school (and join her peers). She chose not to speak up while the family plans were being made -- which seems very in character -- but let slip her real feelings in the course of addressing a point that affects only her.

That question aside: Deja's 13 years old (she was 12 last year), was abandoned by her mother less than a year ago, and was adopted in December. Should her new parents really put her right to work, babysitting their two younger daughters three times a week?  

Tessa's probably only a year younger than Deja (if that).  She actually seems like she's 13 to me, but we'll call her 12.  She can babysit Annie.  Deja doesn't have to do anything.  Problem solved.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Not really.  Babies born at 28 weeks these days have about a 90% survival rate which is certainly better than it used to be, but not the same as at term.  That survival also depends on a lot of high tech stuff and months in the NICU, most parents would be  worried about that even with no other issues.  However, in the 28 weekers who survive, there is a significant risk of ongoing problems; they're at risk for cerebral palsy, developmental delays, learning disabilities, blindness, deafness, asthma and other chronic lung problems, susceptibility to infection and a host of other stuff.  

I practiced OB for more than 30 years and have delivered more than my share of 28 weekers.  Sure, this baby could well end up perfectly fine, but there is also a significant chance that it won't.  BTW, it would've been better if Kate's baby was a girl; baby boys do significantly worse than girls when born prematurely.  We women are not the weaker sex.

Thanks for the lowdown.  Facts are good.  It underscores for me that Kate shouldn't have been flying back and forth and roadtripping for the uncle hunt.  She could have encountered problems mid-trip that would have taken hours to get to a hospital.  Unnecessary risk in my book. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Since Deja was so humiliated at school, I thought that a chance to switch schools and fit in with a whole new set of students, who wouldn't know her backstory would make sense. She has the chance to move up and skip a grade.   I get her desire to keep things stable, but, at her age, she could change her mind easily.

  In our area, many after school kids go straight to an after school program, like at the Y. (Transportation is provided.)  They provide all kinds of activities until pickup, like sports, crafts, homework, games, swimming, etc.  But, if the parents are not for that kind of thing, then they could alternate days, with each parent sharing in the after school care, which is fair.  I haven't seen all of the backstory on Beth's childhood ballet history, but, enough to know that her mom yanked her out.  But, still, a grown woman with 3 kids being so focused on dance for herself....it's just odd to me.  

There is little chance that anyone who kissed and got up close to Kevin at the graduation would not have smelled alcohol on him.  I've been around someone who drank like Kevin and the next morning it's very noticeable and mints don't fix it. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

In our area, many after school kids go straight to an after school program, like at the Y. (Transportation is provided.)  They provide all kinds of activities until pickup, like sports, crafts, homework, games, swimming, etc.  But, if the parents are not for that kind of thing, then they could alternate days, with each parent sharing in the after school care, which is fair.  I haven't seen all of the backstory on Beth's childhood ballet history, but, enough to know that her mom yanked her out.  But, still, a grown woman with 3 kids being so focused on dance for herself....it's just odd to me.  

What about an adult man who leaves his well paying job (granted he had mental health issues), adopts a teenage girl from a difficult background and then decides to not only purchase a run-down apartment building a two hour drive away but then run for city council in that city at undoubtedly a small fraction of his previous salary?  Randall has been worse than Beth when it comes to putting himself ahead of the needs of his family.  They're an afterthought to him, and, when he does think of them, his answer to any problem is to dump it on his wife and expect her to suck it up and figure things out while he does whatever he wants to do.  

Edited March 9, 2019 by doodlebug

[SunnyBeBe]

8 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

What about an adult man who leaves his well paying job (granted he had mental health issues), adopts a teenage girl from a difficult background and then decides to not only purchase a run-down apartment building a two hour drive away but then run for city council in that city at undoubtedly a small fraction of his previous salary?  Randall has been worse than Beth when it comes to putting himself ahead of the needs of his family.  They're an afterthought to him, and, when he does think of them, his answer to any problem is to dump it on his wife and expect her to suck it up and figure things out while he does whatever he wants to do.  

You make some valid points.  It's just that I consider trying to help the community with running for office a positive thing and not so selfish.  I might feel differently, if he wanted to leave the work force and focus his time playing video games or ping pong. Both of these characters frustrate me at times.  They do seem to have plenty of rich people's problems. 

[ShadowFacts]

13 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

What about an adult man who leaves his well paying job (granted he had mental health issues), adopts a teenage girl from a difficult background and then decides to not only purchase a run-down apartment building a two hour drive away but then run for city council in that city at undoubtedly a small fraction of his previous salary?  Randall has been worse than Beth when it comes to putting himself ahead of the needs of his family.  They're an afterthought to him, and, when he does think of them, his answer to any problem is to dump it on his wife and expect her to suck it up and figure things out while he does whatever he wants to do.  

You said it better than I could have.  Beth has done a lot of adjusting on account of him, really stepping up to help with William and forging a relationship with him, same with Deja, and even coming around to his campaign after he had refused to stop as he had said he would.  She has been a better partner to him than he has to her, in my view, and inequity like that over the years can wear down even their bond. 

[Sake614]

On 3/5/2019 at 10:33 PM, ams1001 said:

Eight credits at community college to finish a degree started 16 years ago seems...unlikely

Not really. Most schools offer credit for life experience. That can be anywhere from 4 credits to 64 depending on ehat the area of expertise and type of project required. Maybe she dropped out of school when she was just 8 credits shy of graduating. I did it and then went back 8 years later to complete my degree.

[GodsBeloved]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

You make some valid points.  It's just that I consider trying to help the community with running for office a positive thing and not so selfish.  I might feel differently, if he wanted to leave the work force and focus his time playing video games or ping pong. Both of these characters frustrate me at times.  They do seem to have plenty of rich people's problems. 

I agree. The problem for me is this is Randall. 

I think he’s doing it for himself much more than for the people.

[AllThatJazz91]

On 3/6/2019 at 8:33 AM, Liamsmom617 said:

What a dick move by Randall!! Come on, no one is THAT oblivious and dumb. I'm so done with that character right now! Why should Beth give up what is making her so happy and fulfilled? YOU give up your stupid political career, asshole! 

Props to Justin Hartley....this show doesn't make me cry often, but when Kate insisted he go to an AA meeting and he broke down and said, "I can't"....wow. And poor Kevin...as usual, when it's about him and not one of his sibs for 5 minutes, some tragedy happens to Kate. Not blaming her, of course (though I do blame the writers for being predictable there), but that just ALWAYS seems to happen to Kevin. 

Before Randall even said, I knew he would go down that route. I was so angry and disappointed. I hate where the character is going. I've never liked the political storyline anyway. Just like most of the users have said, he is at his best when he has a storyline with his daughters or his siblings. 

Justin was wonderful in that scene. My heart broke for him. Now that he's getting more serious material, he's really shown what a good actor he is. 

[Calvada]

Some minor points first:  did we ever see Rebecca at the hospital?  She wasn't waiting with Toby when the ambulance arrived, and we never saw her in Kate's room.  I thought it strange she wasn't at least there in the background.  How DID those videotapes survive the fire?  Re Kate's cheek - it looked like an implant that's gone wrong.  

Randall was an ass, certainly for his comments to Beth, and more.  Whatever happened to working together, compromising for your family?  If he had concerns, why immediately jump to the conclusion that Beth has to change what she is doing?  It's 3 nights - how about Beth gives up 1 night, Randall takes one night, and they leave the 3 kids on their own on the third night?  What about cutting back on what appears to be a staggering amount of activities for the kids?  For me, the most offensive remark Randall made was about looking into hiring a sitter, needing "not a college kid, but an experienced adult to be here when we're working, someone who knows their way around adopted kids and newly out daughters."  What the hell???  Does he need someone with a Ph.D. or their Master's in social work to be there for a few hours 3 nights a week?  Just because Deja is adopted, she needs  "an experienced adult" to drive her to soccer?  And why does the daughter who has announced she likes girls suddenly need expert care?  I could understand this if she had diabetes, or epilepsy, or some other condition requiring special attention, but because she is gay?  Way to go Randall, take the path that would make her feel that what is normal and natural is something in need of specialized monitoring.  Give me a break.  Get over yourself, Randall, and realize that hiring a college student for 3 nights a week is perfectly fine for your precious snowflakes.  After all, it's not like their teachers are all close personal friends of yours, and they are looking after your kids for hours each week.  

[debraran]

I still can't believe Sterling didn't object to that gay line in the script but maybe it will be brought back later. What was worse, was Beth didn't object to it. I am sure many gay parents, I know  and I'm sure many of you do also, can assure Randall she will survive not discussing it with her babysitter or maybe her babysitter might be gay. ; )   Really irked me but I was one of the few that didn't think their speech to her when she told them was great either but better than some I'm sure. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by debraran

[theatremouse]

I think it was phrased very poorly in the script, but I thought what they were trying to get at was he was vetting potential care providers to confirm they are LGBTQA-friendly (as well as his other laundry list of stuff). Not that they need any kind of special carer because one kid is gay, but that they couldn't not include that in their criteria because then they might hire a some totally random sitter who seemed nice enough and qualified enough for childcare in general, but then later that person makes a casually homophobic remark and oops bad hire and they're full of regret. So I think (or maybe it's that I hope) the real point of the laundry list there wasn't so much any one of the things in it, but rather that they did indeed have a longer than they might've otherwise list of requirements. (Personally i'd not want to hire someone homophobic even if I didn't have a gay kid, but it might not have occurred to them to vet for that otherwise.) It was a poorly written scene all around though.

[bros402]

18 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Not really.  Babies born at 28 weeks these days have about a 90% survival rate which is certainly better than it used to be, but not the same as at term.  That survival also depends on a lot of high tech stuff and months in the NICU, most parents would be  worried about that even with no other issues.  However, in the 28 weekers who survive, there is a significant risk of ongoing problems; they're at risk for cerebral palsy, developmental delays, learning disabilities, blindness, deafness, asthma and other chronic lung problems, susceptibility to infection and a host of other stuff.  

I practiced OB for more than 30 years and have delivered more than my share of 28 weekers.  Sure, this baby could well end up perfectly fine, but there is also a significant chance that it won't.  BTW, it would've been better if Kate's baby was a girl; baby boys do significantly worse than girls when born prematurely.  We women are not the weaker sex.

That is what i meant by things not being in his favor - I know that girls fare better than boys. I believe black girls fare the best (I think I remember reading an article to that effect a while back)?

Kevin is rich, if anything came up, I bet he could just call someone up and get a lifeflight for his nephew to whatever the top NICU in LA is.

I know all about the issues preemies can face - from your list, I have cerebral palsy, had developmental delays, have learning disabilities, have mild vision issues, have asthma, and also was very susceptible to infection. I believe increased risk to leukemias and lymphomas is also a risk that the tinier preemies face (Mostly micro-preemies, but Kate's baby has a decent chance of not being micro - since he could be >2 lbs).

[Morlock]

17 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

You make some valid points.  It's just that I consider trying to help the community with running for office a positive thing and not so selfish.  I might feel differently, if he wanted to leave the work force and focus his time playing video games or ping pong. Both of these characters frustrate me at times.  They do seem to have plenty of rich people's problems. 

The thing is with the main core of characters is none of them do anything with pure intentions. Whether it's trying to get their long lost Uncle to move out of the only place he knows as home or buying a run down apartment or whatever else it always seems it's to make themselves feel better as well as provide some much needed distraction and drama in their own lives. 

[alexvillage]

Picking up on some posts here.

I think, and hope, the baby will be fine and wen we come back next year time will have lapsed and he will be home. I also hope that Kate will be just fine. That's because what I am tired of is the old story that overweight women are at a high risk, premies NICU stories. For once, I would like to see this story reflect what happens all the time everywhere and not the "dangers!" of the high risk pregnancy. It was done, the message is there. Let's move on from this plot.

As for Randall and Beth, I wouldn't mind him telling her to give up her newfound passion if he had actually talked to her, if he had at least pretended to be trying to find a solution. My problem is that he is a control freak who believes his ideas and solutions are the ones they need to follow. He does't treat her as an equal. 

I do hope she stands her ground though. We know that she runs the school (?) in the future so hopefully she will simply tell him to go take a walk.

[Guest]

On 3/6/2019 at 11:48 PM, buckboard said:

However they decide to resolve the situation, the first thing the parents should do in the future is talk to each other before making decisions that will affect the rest of the family.

Absolutely. This is one of my biggest problems with how Randall has handled everything. Much like Jack before him, he seems to think he can make big decisions without consulting Beth. Then he even promises her veto power on something as huge as running for office and then backtracks. She consults him about her desire to teach, he agrees, and then once she makes plans he’s like “no. Won’t work after all.”