The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[ChromaKelly]

23 minutes ago, Wynterwolf said:

Apologies for quoting myself, but I'm so very fond of the above mentioned theme related to Steve's character arc, so when I had to privilege to see CE at Ace Comic Con in Chicago this past weekend, and he said this (he was asked how Steve would deal with basically having seen Bucky die in front of him twice):

 

I... got a little emotional.  It was a great weekend and Chris Evans is an amazing person.  

WOW!!!! That is so awesome. I would have gotten emotional too.  

[JessePinkman]

Well this is the most insane analysis of the MCU I’ve ever seen.

 

Luckily they lost me before they negatively compared the MCU to the X-Men franchise.

[festivus]

35 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

Watch 'What's Your Number?' because it's the same thing. There is a SHOCKING amount of MCU people in that flick. It was on sometime last year and I watched it for the hell of it (rom coms are very hit or miss with me) and I actually liked that one a lot but the sheer amount of MCU players had me cracking up.

I saw this one back when and now that I want to see it again I can't find it anywhere. I've been scouring every Goodwill, pawn shop and yardsale and nothin'!

[methodwriter85]

I'm honestly kind of curious to see how Marvel is going to treat the Netflix characters/shows right now that Disney is launching its own streaming service. I mean, Danny Rand was kind of lame but I wonder if Marvel might start exercising their rights over that character now that Iron Fist got cancelled.

[Raja]

14 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I'm honestly kind of curious to see how Marvel is going to treat the Netflix characters/shows right now that Disney is launching its own streaming service. I mean, Danny Rand was kind of lame but I wonder if Marvel might start exercising their rights over that character now that Iron Fist got cancelled.

I doubt if they break continuity as that was the selling point. A  recast of specific roles like Don Chedle replacing Terrace Howard is always possible but besides Phil Coulson and Agent Carter I doubt that any of the NetFlix, ABC, FreeForm or Hulu MCU characters ever show up in a blockbuster movie. Or anywhere once their TV run is over.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Raja

[methodwriter85]

I could see maybe trotting out Daredevil again, especially since that seems to be the best viewed of the Netflix MCU shows.

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I could see maybe trotting out Daredevil again, especially since that seems to be the best viewed of the Netflix MCU shows.

I know Markus and McFeely have talked about tossing around ideas to stick a cameo of Luke Cage in Infinity War. Strangely enough, I've always felt like Luke and Jessica are the easiest to plug into the MCU because Luke's thing has always been about protecting the types of people and neighborhoods that never get the attention of the big league heroes, so a cameo of Luke is completely on brand. Jessica is such a antisocial mess with a ton of maladaptive behaviors that she's a perfect candidate for a Wolverine style "go fuck yourself" cameo. 

That's the other thing too. Jessica and Luke basically have powers that duplicate other major heroes in the MCU film side so it's not really necessary to ponder why the Avengers failed to include Luke and Jessica when trying to fight Thanos because we already had quite a few people who could punch hard, but if we had 2 more (Luke and Jessica) we surely would have won. No they wouldn't.

Daredevil is the real problem. He has a long history of team ups with Spider-Man in the comics, but tonally the two properties are so off right now. Peter is an eager to please high schooler and Matt is a broken demoralized attorney in his 30s. Even without knowing about their hero-ing side hustle you'd be like "Hey kid! Why are hanging with this dude who is twice your age?" And there'd be no good answer. Spider-Man is a kid and obviously so. Even Miles' uncle picked up on that.

[benteen]

Daredevil would be the no-brainer to put in there.  I'd love to see him in the world of Spider-Man.  Punisher and Kingpin too.

I wouldn't mind seeing Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and his one facial expression in the MCU either.

[Dandesun]

9 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Daredevil is the real problem. He has a long history of team ups with Spider-Man in the comics, but tonally the two properties are so off right now. Peter is an eager to please high schooler and Matt is a broken demoralized attorney in his 30s. Even without knowing about their hero-ing side hustle you'd be like "Hey kid! Why are hanging with this dude who is twice your age?" And there'd be no good answer. Spider-Man is a kid and obviously so. Even Miles' uncle picked up on that.

Daredevil and Black Widow, though... I mean they were teamed up for a long time in the comics and I could totally see them getting along in the MCU.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Dandesun

[Kel Varnsen]

5 hours ago, Dandesun said:

Daredevil and Black Widow, though... I mean they were teamed up for a long time in the comics and I could totally see them getting along in the MCU.

Whatever Marvel has planned for their streaming service might be a good place for that. Like little day in the life one shot episodes with minimal action or effects. Like one where Natasha either gets legal representation from Matt or goes on a date with him thanks to an online app. Or one where Carol Danvers, back on n earth needs a PI to track down some old property of hers.

I was thinking about that disney streaming service and what marvel has planned for it. And it could be an awesome way to keep some of the bigger named actors involved in the MCU. I mean RDJ seems to love playing Tony Stark. But at the same time giving  up a year or more to prep, film a movie, then do reshoots and then do press tours has to be a huge pain. 

[Dandesun]

52 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I was thinking about that disney streaming service and what marvel has planned for it. And it could be an awesome way to keep some of the bigger named actors involved in the MCU. I mean RDJ seems to love playing Tony Stark. But at the same time giving  up a year or more to prep, film a movie, then do reshoots and then do press tours has to be a huge pain. 

Interesting idea. I think Chris Evans has expressed some fatigue at the conditioning required to be Cap. And I have to believe that those epic press junkets are just a slog. You can really tell when they've reached their limit in some of those interviews. (Plus, some of those interviewers are freaking morons and I can't imagine being jet-lagged, sleep deprived, hopped up on caffeine and being asked the same handful of questions over and over and over and over and over again and having to be nice about it.)

The conditioning though. There's a huge difference between 'good/great shape' and 'Superhero ready' none of the Phase 1 team are as young as they used to be. Sure, when you're 25-28 the weight will melt off of you... when you're in your late 30s it's not quite so easy.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Dandesun

[Kel Varnsen]

9 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

Interesting idea. I think Chris Evans has expressed some fatigue at the conditioning required to be Cap. And I have to believe that those epic press junkets are just a slog. You can really tell when they've reached their limit in some of those interviews. (Plus, some of those interviewers are freaking morons and I can't imagine being jet-lagged, sleep deprived, hopped up on caffeine and being asked the same handful of questions over and over and over and over and over again and having to be nice about it.)

The conditioning though. There's a huge difference between 'good/great shape' and 'Superhero ready' none of the Phase 1 team are as young as they used to be. Sure, when you're 25-28 the weight will melt off of you... when you're in you're late 30s it's not quite so easy.

The conditioning  has to be brutal. Wasn't it for Civil War that Evans basically shot the hold back the hepicopter scene first because it was basically impossible to maintain that muscle tone while actually shooting a movie? I think I also read that during shooting pretty much whenever he was off camera he was doing bicep curls.

But yea little day in the life episodes could be a nice way around that. I read a great comment on some other site about Daniel Craig and the Bond franchise but I think it applies to the MCU as well. With Craig you have a guy  pushing 50 and you are expecting him to get into the shape of a 20 year old elite athlete. Honestly I am surprised we haven't seen a super hero movie have to push back its release date because the star messes up his knee or shoulder or something due to excessive training.

And yea having to answer "what was it like to pick up the shield one last time" 100+ times over a weekend would be painful.

[Dandesun]

4 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The conditioning  has to be brutal. Wasn't it for Civil War that Evans basically shot the hold back the hepicopter scene first because it was basically impossible to maintain that muscle tone while actually shooting a movie? I think I also read that during shooting pretty much whenever he was off camera he was doing bicep curls.

Well, I know he hurt his elbow in that scene. Also, the scene in First Avenger when Cap is revealed for the first time was definitely the first shot because the commentary specifically said that he was primed and ready when he first arrived and the scheduling of the movies didn't leave room for the workouts required to keep that physique up. So... I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same for the helicopter scene in Civil War.

How long did Hugh Jackman have to get into that frankly ludicrous condition to play Logan?

I mean, RDJ hasn't really shown much skin as Tony since maybe IM2? The heavy lifting as far as ridiculous shape in the MCU has really fallen on the Chrises. I can totally understand them getting tired of it. Again, not because being in shape is too much to ask... but the shape they're required to be in to play super heroes like Cap and Thor. Yikes. I remember talk after the first Thor how hard it was for Hemsworth to keep all that muscle on. His body goes more lean (as you can see whenever he's not in Thor condition) and the amount he had to consume for the muscle mass to play Thor was, apparently, obscene.

[dusang]

55 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Whatever Marvel has planned for their streaming service might be a good place for that. Like little day in the life one shot episodes with minimal action or effects. Like one where Natasha either gets legal representation from Matt or goes on a date with him thanks to an online app. Or one where Carol Danvers, back on n earth needs a PI to track down some old property of hers.

I was thinking about that disney streaming service and what marvel has planned for it. And it could be an awesome way to keep some of the bigger named actors involved in the MCU. I mean RDJ seems to love playing Tony Stark. But at the same time giving  up a year or more to prep, film a movie, then do reshoots and then do press tours has to be a huge pain. 

While I appreciate the physical strain can be wearying, not only did the MCU revive RDJ's career and prove him employable, he's made upwards of $200 million off the franchise.  He hasn't given up anything.

[Wynterwolf]

2 hours ago, Dandesun said:

I think Chris Evans has expressed some fatigue at the conditioning required to be Cap.

Definitely brutal, though I could see where something on a smaller scale for the streaming service might require a bit less of a commitment on the physical side than a movie.  

But from what CE was saying at this past convention, he's ridiculously busy for what seems like the next couple of years.  And he even mentioned that there are a couple more things that he can't talk about yet.  

Edited October 18, 2018 by Wynterwolf

[tennisgurl]

4 hours ago, Dandesun said:

I remember talk after the first Thor how hard it was for Hemsworth to keep all that muscle on. His body goes more lean (as you can see whenever he's not in Thor condition) and the amount he had to consume for the muscle mass to play Thor was, apparently, obscene.

Hemsworth in Bad Times at the El Royal is clearly much more lean than it is when he goes into Thor mode, as we spend most of his time in the movie starring at his very impressive abs :) I cant imagine how much work it must be to put so much muscle on in seemingly random intervals for as long as he has. 

I have long wanted for the Netflix characters to join the rest of the MCU, so I would be happy with pretty much any real crossover. 

[Dee]

Scarlett has said she gives herself a three week window to get back into Widow shape just in case Marvel randomly needs her.

[Raja]

I know streaming is the new  thing and Will Smith even did a movie for NetFlix but frankly I don't see how it would a bigger draw for "the movie star" than being on ABC once in 5 years.

[Kel Varnsen]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

I know streaming is the new  thing and Will Smith even did a movie for NetFlix but frankly I don't see how it would a bigger draw for "the movie star" than being on ABC once in 5 years.

Because the good streaming services are becoming the equivalent of what premium cable channels are. And when was the last time you saw Nicole Kidman star on a network tv series.

[Raja]

Of course then we get to the definition of "good" and will that turn into the net TV equivalent of Oscar bait movies? Frankly to just another script page for a preexisting character that the industry doesn't give awards to.

[VCRTracking]

[Wynterwolf]

Release Schedule adjustment:

[Silver Raven]

If there was already a July 31 date, doesn't that mean the movie has already been filmed?  Which one was it?

Oh, 2020.  I missed that.  nm.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Silver Raven

[HunterHunted]

12 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

If there was already a July 31 date, doesn't that mean the movie has already been filmed?  Which one was it?

Oh, 2020.  I missed that.  nm.

likely Guardians 3, which was supposed to start production now.

[Wynterwolf]

The two likely still on the docket for 2020 are Black Widow and Dr Strange 2, though they do appear to be narrowing the field for a director for GotG3.  

[Morrigan2575]

I'm guessing February 2021 is for Black Panther 2

[PepSinger]

7 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm guessing February 2021 is for Black Panther 2

I hope not because I’m super impatient. I hope it’s February 2020.

[PepSinger]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/luke-cage-canceled-2-seasons-netflix-1154016?utm_source=twitter

[HunterHunted]

16 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm guessing February 2021 is for Black Panther 2

9 hours ago, PepSinger said:

I hope not because I’m super impatient. I hope it’s February 2020.

 

February 2021 is almost certainly for Black Panther 2. If you use all of the timeframes for Guardians 3, it's clear that a writer has to have a script over to Feige 2 years before the movie opens. Gunn gave Marvel the script in June 2018. Preproduction work was supposed to start in the fall of 2018. Principal filming was to start in early 2019. Of course they'd have reshoots, editing, CGI work, score, ADR, and whatever else through the back half of 2019 and into 2020. So considering that Marvel just signed Coogler for Black Panther 2, there's essentially no way that it was coming out before 2021.

7 hours ago, PepSinger said:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/luke-cage-canceled-2-seasons-netflix-1154016?utm_source=twitter

Something very weird is going on behind the scenes with Netflix, Marvel, and Disney. Let's hope that Marvel isn't stupid enough to just let the shows be cancelled and not pick them up on their new streaming service. The film side has always been really bad about diversity and representation. It took them 10 years to have a character of color and a female character top line a film. In that regards, the TV/Netflix side of the MCU has always been the saving grace. So to straight up cancel your only series with significant casts of color is not a good look. And Feige speculating that they may recast (and possibly retcon) some of the TV/Netflix characters leaves a very sour taste in my mouth.

Furthermore, I continue to be really irritated by their inability to include even cameos or Easter eggs from the TV/Netflix shows into the films. The film side has this constant refrain about coordinating schedules and wanting to do right by the TV characters, but that's straight up bullshit.

First, one of things that has come out in all of the press for Avengers 3 and 4 is that barely anyone filmed with each other. They'd bring an actor on set for 3 or 4 days. None of the other major characters were there. The actor would deliver his or her lines, film their scenes, and then leave without any real clue about the context.

Second, they said that they didn't want the TV/Netflix characters to end up as just cameos, but there were a shit ton of cameos in Infinity War by characters who are way more important to the film side. And I suspect that some of these cameos won't have a hell of a lot to do in Avengers 4 either. Wong was a cameo. Rhodey was a cameo. As was Falcon, Ned, Bucky, M'Baku, Black Panther, Maria Hill, and Nick Fury. But having a tv screen in the background showing Luke Cage, Colleen Wing, and Misty rescuing people from the rubble in New York isn't doing right by those characters? However, it's totally cool to have Wong leave in the middle of a battle about the fate of the universe to protect the sanctums? Really? From what?  We know Wong is going to show up in any Doctor Strange sequels.

I might actually be out of the MCU because of this. I'm one of those weird people who is a little more invested in the TV side than the film side, especially with regard to the upcoming films. I loved Black Panther and will watch the sequel.  I really like the Ant Man franchise; I'll watch a 3rd movie. I couldn't stand Doctor Strange. I liked, but didn't love Homecoming. I cannot stand Scarlett Johansson; I've been calling her the pretentious man's Carmen Elecktra for years. I find her very flat; I have no interest in 2 hours of that in a Black Widow movie. I've never connected to Captain Marvel. Guardians 2 had more heart than 1, but all of the jokes went on too long and were 40% more crass than they needed to be. I'm somewhat optimistic about a James Gunn-less 3rd installment. But the TV shows, as imperfect as they are, were my thing. They were able to explore and ruminate on things that felt quintessentially Marvel: bigotry, race, gender, class, sexuality, trauma, and how we use power.

[Wynterwolf]

Yeah, there definitely seems to be some behind-the-scenes weirdness going on with the Netflix shows.  Though I did see a rumor (that seemed credible) that Heroes for Hire was being/had been talked about (in place of Iron Fist and Luke Cage), so maybe?  I don't know...  I really liked Luke Cage, but the only good thing about Iron Fist was Colleen.  

I finally read that second 'leaked trailer' summary for A4 (the one with the Hulk) and OMG that is hilarious (and fake), but there is still another one out there (that mentions the white suits like from the toy leak, that ends with Rhodey and Rocket) that still seems like it kinda, sorta could be legit-ish.   And all credible sources still have end of November for the A4 trailer/teaser.  

[SimoneS]

@HunterHunted, I can't believe that MCU is actually making a Black Widow movie. I like Scarlett Johansson more than you, but I don't think that the character is lead superhero material. I think that DC embarrassed MCU with Wonder Woman's success and is trying to rush to surpass it. I agree with you about Dr. Strange. I can't believe that MCU is making a second movie. No matter how much money it made, the first was creatively barren and Strange is annoying as hell. IMO, Chiwetel Ejiofor who is the superior actor should have been cast as Strange, not Benedict Cumberbatch. As for Guardians, Gunn's firing and Bautista's obnoxiousness is a blessing in disguise. It is another franchise that needs a good long rest after the mediocre trying too hard second movie. I have said this before: I think Marvel should move forward with the next Thor movie adding Rocket and Groot to his team of heroes.

Edited October 21, 2018 by SimoneS

[methodwriter85]

16 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

Yeah, there definitely seems to be some behind-the-scenes weirdness going on with the Netflix shows.  Though I did see a rumor (that seemed credible) that Heroes for Hire was being/had been talked about (in place of Iron Fist and Luke Cage), so maybe?  I don't know...  I really liked Luke Cage, but the only good thing about Iron Fist was Colleen.

There's this weird little inkling in the back of my mind that's saying that Netflix is going to find it harder to lease/share/whatever the hell it is they do with those characters because of Disney's streaming stuff. I don't know, it's weird and a part of me really didn't trust the initial talk about how everything was going to be fine with the Netflix Marvel shows even as everything else Disney leaves the streamer.

I'm going to miss Colleen, as well as Ward's fucked up self, as well. Tom Pelphrey NEEDS to be snatched up as a movie villain somewhere. He's got a raging intensity that would be great for that.

I do thinking combining those two shows makes sense, if that's the plan.

If Daredevil does show up in movie-verse, I  wonder if they'd keep Charlie Cox or cast him with an established movie star in his 30's.

Edited October 21, 2018 by methodwriter85

[HunterHunted]

26 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

If Daredevil does show up in movie-verse, I  wonder if they'd keep Charlie Cox or cast him with an established movie star in his 30's.

Part of the reason the films are cast the way they are is because Marvel doesn't want to pay their talent if they can avoid it. They cast RDJ because he was barely insurable and was barely being cast. Outside of his brief scene the Star Trek reboot, no one had ever heard of Hemsworth, which is why they paid him $150,000 for the first Thor. Hiddleston was an unknown. Jaimie Alexander was best known for Kyle XY, meaning she was essentially unknown. Pratt was barely known for his 2 TV shows; he wasn't the lead in any of them and he'd barely been in films. It's not surprising that 2 of 3 Guardians actors who were most likely to command big salaries are voiceovers. Evans was fairly well known. Sebastian Stan was not. Tom Holland was essentially unknown. There'd be no point in spending real money on a more established movie star to play Daredevil because these films are movie star proof.

Marvel usually spends money on more established stars if that actor is playing a villain, playing a secondary or tertiary character, or a cameo. The first Thor made $450 million and the best known actors were Anthony Hopkins, Rene Russo, and Natalie Portman. Spider-Man Homecoming made $880 million and the best known actors in that are RDJ, Marissa Tomei, and Michael Keaton.

If Marvel actually cared about "star power," then Tom Cruise would have been Iron Man, Will Smith would have been Black Panther, Zac Efron would be Spider-Man, and Daredevil might be a toss up between Ryan Reynolds, Ryan Gosling, and Channing Tatum. If they were to recast, it would probably be someone else who is also barely known.

[Dee]

Channing Tatum is still a thing?

[stealinghome]

13 hours ago, SimoneS said:

@HunterHunted, I can't believe that MCU is actually making a Black Widow movie. I like Scarlett Johansson more than you, but I don't think that the character is lead superhero material. I think that DC embarrassed MCU with Wonder Woman's success and is trying to rush to surpass it.

I think Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson could/can easily carry a superhero movie as a lead--all you have to do is make it a darker version of CA:TWS, Natasha's backstory is rife with potential for that kind of story, and imo she's more interesting as a character than most of the current MCU protagonists--but I have a lot of concerns about the potential Black Widow movie going forward because it seems clear to me that Marvel isn't really interested in doing it. They just, as you said, got embarrassed/shamed (rightfully so) by Wonder Woman and now are trying to gain some ground back. On the other hand, I'm not all that interested in any of the Phase 2 lead characters (though give me a Shuri/Okoye/Nakia/Ramona film and I'd be all over that), so I wouldn't be opposed to a solo Black Widow film opening the door for the Phase 1 characters to occasionally have one-off character films that don't have to have anything to do with the rest of the MCU but would let fans see their favorite characters in action again.

Or, you know, random one-off movies that are about Steve/Sam/Natasha/Wanda's adventures as vigilates trying to save the world despite dumbasses like Ross. I would watch the shit out of a movie or several focusing on that little strike team that had nothing to do with the larger MCU. Just the team off fighting Hydra and random aliens and bad guys and whatever and working through their shit.

[Wynterwolf]

Lego toy set "leaks" (tho apparently from a questionable source) with potential spoilers.

But one of the sets seems to link to another potential spoiler about Pepper.  

And also links with Michael Douglas saying the the Quantum Realm will play a key role in the next phase.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Wynterwolf

[Raja]

7 hours ago, Dee said:

Channing Tatum is still a thing?

With the Disney FOX deal it is still in development hell. Maybe like Ant-Man, being developed and then the MCU snatching him back. The comic nerd caste is being increasingly Vocal about wanting a young Gambit and expressing their ideal that Tatum has aged out of being able to do the character. Especially since we are waiting to see how the concept of mutants having been around us is introduced to the MCU.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Raja

[Wynterwolf]

4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Spider-Man Homecoming made $880 million and the best known actors in that are RDJ, Marissa Tomei, and Michael Keaton.

I think Zendaya might have rivaled RDJ in that cast, but it's kind of a nebulous concept and is influenced a lot by age/generation and social context, and also 'well know' vs 'popular'.  

But I'm also on record as saying that I think whoever/whatever team has been responsible for casting all these movies deserves an Oscar just for that, particularly for how cast chemistry has come across on screen.  I think whatever formula/parameters they're using is a large part of the reason these movies have been as successful as they have been, where others have failed/been less successful.  

1 hour ago, stealinghome said:

I think Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson could/can easily carry a superhero movie as a lead--all you have to do is make it a darker version of CA:TWS, Natasha's backstory is rife with potential for that kind of story, and imo she's more interesting as a character than most of the current MCU protagonists

I have a feeling the choice of doing a Black Widow movie now might be more about using her as a vehicle to bring in a plot point they want to use going forward (like AntMan with the Quantum Realm, etc), but for myself I'd put interest in her as a protagonist on a par with Dr. Strange.  Which tbh, is what's nice about the variety they have for protagonists, there is literally something for everyone, even if not everything appeals to everyone.  My focus has obviously been Steve and Bucky's story up to this point, and there's nothing so far that rivals that level of interest for me, but I am still hugely interesting in the Black Panther and AntMan/Wasp storylines, moderately interested in SpiderMan, and very curious about Captain Marvel.   

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, Raja said:

The comic nerd caste is being increasingly focal about wanting a young Gambit and expressing their ideal that Tatum has aged out of being able to do the character.

Taylor Kitsch had the misfortune of being appropriately cast as Gambit in a terrible fucking movie. Ryan Reynolds had that same issue too in that same terrible movie. Deadpool was a passion project for Reynolds, which is why he kept hammering away at it until they could make the movie he wanted to make. I don't think Kitsch feels the same way. Fans complain about Tatum being too old and in the same breath fancast Josh Holloway who is really too fucking old. Yes, Holloway would be perfect, but we don't have a nuclear powered DeLorean that we can use to get an age appropriate Holloway as Gambit. Outside of time traveling Josh Holloway, Gaspard Ulliel and Ben Barnes seem to be the fancast frontrunners. I might throw Francois Arnaud into the mix.

[tennisgurl]

I think a movie about Black Widow could maybe work, if they focused on it as more of a spy story, with a more morally ambiguous tone. I think that Natasha could easily be the hero of her own film, and her backstory is intriguing enough that that alone could make for an awesome movie. However, I think that it would have been a better movie to have done awhile ago, before we had gotten so much other stuff into the MCU. Prime Black Widow story time seemed to be more in the Winter Soldier/Hydra era in the MCU. Now, with magic and alien conquerors and increasingly comic book style shenanigans and all this other crap happening, it seems like a movie focused on spy stuff wouldn't quite fit. 

Of course, they could end up using that to their advantage. I would love a movie that had Natasha leading the runaway heroes around the world, fighting evil behind the scenes before Thanos got here, or even the kind of movie that Suicide Squad should have been. Morally ambiguous black ops missions going on behind the scenes while the big dramatic superhero fights are happening elsewhere. I think that could have a lot of potential. 

[Wynterwolf]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I think a movie about Black Widow could maybe work, if they focused on it as more of a spy story, with a more morally ambiguous tone.

One of the other rumors floating around is that there are 4 short series in the works for the streaming service and that the third one might revolve around Nick Fury.  He's going to have a presence in the Captain Marvel movie, and he and Nat do have a very close relationship, so I could see the beginnings of her relationship with him being explored/filled in during this movie.  

[Kel Varnsen]

On 18/10/2018 at 5:33 PM, dusang said:

While I appreciate the physical strain can be wearying, not only did the MCU revive RDJ's career and prove him employable, he's made upwards of $200 million off the franchise.  He hasn't given up anything.

Given up in a sense that time spent shooting another MCU movie is time spent away from his loved ones not to mention time spent not working on other movies or activites that interest him more. Considering that he has made 200+ million he has more money than he could ever hope to spend. And consideration that he is 53 he probably is aware of how limited his time to do the things that he wants is.

[stealinghome]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I think a movie about Black Widow could maybe work, if they focused on it as more of a spy story, with a more morally ambiguous tone. I think that Natasha could easily be the hero of her own film, and her backstory is intriguing enough that that alone could make for an awesome movie. However, I think that it would have been a better movie to have done awhile ago, before we had gotten so much other stuff into the MCU. Prime Black Widow story time seemed to be more in the Winter Soldier/Hydra era in the MCU. Now, with magic and alien conquerors and increasingly comic book style shenanigans and all this other crap happening, it seems like a movie focused on spy stuff wouldn't quite fit.

Agreed. I have always said that the right moment for a Black Widow solo movie was between CA:TWS and AoU. Natasha as a character was flying high after CA:TWS and a solo movie could have slotted in so, so perfectly as an explanation of how Nat, who disappears to find herself at the end of Winter Soldier, is back with the team in Age of Ultron.

[Lugal]

On 10/21/2018 at 3:33 AM, HunterHunted said:

Part of the reason the films are cast the way they are is because Marvel doesn't want to pay their talent if they can avoid it. They cast RDJ because he was barely insurable and was barely being cast. Outside of his brief scene the Star Trek reboot, no one had ever heard of Hemsworth, which is why they paid him $150,000 for the first Thor. Hiddleston was an unknown. Jaimie Alexander was best known for Kyle XY, meaning she was essentially unknown. Pratt was barely known for his 2 TV shows; he wasn't the lead in any of them and he'd barely been in films. It's not surprising that 2 of 3 Guardians actors who were most likely to command big salaries are voiceovers. Evans was fairly well known. Sebastian Stan was not. Tom Holland was essentially unknown. There'd be no point in spending real money on a more established movie star to play Daredevil because these films are movie star proof.

Marvel usually spends money on more established stars if that actor is playing a villain, playing a secondary or tertiary character, or a cameo. The first Thor made $450 million and the best known actors were Anthony Hopkins, Rene Russo, and Natalie Portman. Spider-Man Homecoming made $880 million and the best known actors in that are RDJ, Marissa Tomei, and Michael Keaton.

If Marvel actually cared about "star power," then Tom Cruise would have been Iron Man, Will Smith would have been Black Panther, Zac Efron would be Spider-Man, and Daredevil might be a toss up between Ryan Reynolds, Ryan Gosling, and Channing Tatum. If they were to recast, it would probably be someone else who is also barely known.

Although that's been the formula for superhero movies for years, going back to the first Superman movie.  Cast an unknown for the hero and a big name for the villain.  Christopher Reeve had barely done anything when he was cast, but Gene Hackman was well known.  With the Tim Burton Batman, Michael Keaton was known for Beetlejuice but Jack Nicholson was a much bigger name.    Marvel has had a few exceptions but they have also generally held to the formula too.  Big names for heroes are often met with more resistance, see Batfleck and even George Clooney as Batman at a high point in his career (although the fact that movie was awful did not help him).

[Dandesun]

I don't recall any casting for Batman greeted with overwhelming joy. But that's probably why so many have gone the route of 'lesser known' for the heroes. You get an image in your head of who the hero SHOULD be and it's hard to pry it out of most fan-brains. The only one I can really think of that was joyously received was Patrick Stewart as Professor X but, I mean, how could one argue that? I don't recall how people reacted to RDJ getting cast as Tony Stark but, personally, the second I heard it I went 'Perfect.'

Back in the day, there were fancasts of X-Men ALL THE TIME on the newsgroups. And Glenn Danzig was always topping lists to play Wolverine. So much so, that when the movie came along and Hugh Jackman got the role (and he was someone most people had NO IDEA of -- and when they did research and found he did musicals on Broadway... well, I'm sure it's no surprise that the newsgroups weren't the most enlightened places to be. The idea of anyone playing Wolverine ever singing 'Oh What A Beautiful Morning' in front of people really tarnished a lot of hyped up, super masc Logan lovers.) people lost their shit and had NOTHING good to day. They demanded that Danzig be cast and I remember thinking, at the time, can Danzig even ACT?

And that was the thing about Hemsworth... I imdb'd him (what is even the proper grammar there?) remembered his fifteen minutes of glory at the beginning of Star Trek and thought 'Hey, they got a guy who can act.'

My first thought about Evans was: But he was already Johnny Storm! And, I know I've said it before, but I thought he was PERFECT as Johnny. The movie was shite but he was a terrific Johnny. So much so that I very sincerely wondered how he would even do as Cap. Boy did I ever learn my lesson there.

Bigger names always want to play the villains because the villains are more memorable and interesting... or, at the very least, they're the ones driving the plot. MCU has done a very good job in making sure that the heroes are up to snuff. It's important.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Dandesun

[Wynterwolf]

3 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

MCU has done a very good job in making sure that the heroes are up to snuff. It's important.

Yeah, that's basically what tipped me over into 'obsessed fan' mode with the MCU and not any of the other franchises.  And particularly I think they've done a stellar job on all the movies of making the relationships between the good guys the basis of the storytelling (not the villain's EVOL PLAN) so the casting is more about how the actors work together than who they are (and then they have to get their shit together to take on the villain/evil organization/whatever... which is why it's not going to surprise me if Fury and Clint play a significant role in Natasha's movie regardless of what the threat is, since those are the characters we've seen her have the closest personal relationship to).  

[Dee]

Are Luke Cage and Iron Fist the First Victims of #PeakSuperhero Fatigue?

Quote

Remember when Smallville was TV’s lone superhero show? (And hell, it didn’t even let Clark Kent have flights or tights.) Now, seven years after that Superman origin story wrapped its run, TV is home to nearly 20 comic book-based series about specially abled heroes, with another batch in the pipeline.

Could it be that Luke Cage and Iron Fist, which both got powered down this month, are the first casualties of simply too much super going on?

Edited October 23, 2018 by Dee

[Raja]

46 minutes ago, Dee said:

Are Luke Cage and Iron Fist the First Victims of #PeakSuperhero Fatigue?

It seems to suggest that cinematic Marvel did not release enough villain characters to NetFlix, a problem the Agents shows on ABC also have. Cut out the villains owned by Sony Spidy-verse  and the ones FOX along with those held in reserve for the MCU movies and we are getting close to the 70's Hulk and Spider-Man live action TV shows.

 

I would guess that anyone who subscribed to NetFlix just to be a MCU completest did it for Daredevil and the additional shows are not bringing in more Netflix customers. Or they binge and drop the service before a return on investment is made.

[benteen]

Iron Fist wasn't a victim of #PeakSuperhero Fatigue but Shitty Superhero Fatigue.

[Danny Franks]

Both shows were victims of simply not being very good. Iron Fist season 1 was notoriously bad, and I couldn't sit through more than three episodes of it. The second season was apparently better but, with all the content people have to choose from, how many were going to get invested in it?

Luke Cage started off well, but went down the toilet when they replaced the interesting villain with another punchy guy, so he and Luke could fight over their shared daddy issues for half a season. Again, not really invested in watching a second season.

Make good TV, and people watch it, and they talk about it. Daredevil and The Punisher are evidence of this. As was the first season of Jessica Jones. As far as I can tell, all three of those shows were hits, and I would expect them to continue for at least one more season apiece (we know Punisher and Jessica Jones have second and third seasons in the works).

It also seems to be a real possibility that Disney/Marvel are making it clear that they want their character rights back, and want to compete against Netflix, with their streaming service. So it's not like Netflix are going to go out of their way to push middling Marvel shows.

But there are definitely too many comic book based shows on right now. The CW ones don't do it for me, and I haven't watched any of them since about season 4 of Arrow. Runaways was pretty good, but more of a teen drama than a superhero show, same with Cloak & Dagger. I couldn't get into Preacher, and I guess that's because stuff I found funny and edgy when I was a teenager doesn't quite resonate the same way now. Agents of SHIELD? Is that still on? I guess so. I'm not sure that even the most avid comic book fans are able to watch every superhero show, and keep track of what's going on.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Danny Franks