The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

[Bruinsfan]

On 4/27/2018 at 1:49 PM, VCRTracking said:

I don't remember any complaints at all about how Whedon wrote her after until Age of Ultron then people were suddenly like "Whedon's take on Natasha sucks!" and retroactively found all kinds of things wrong with Natasha in Avengers .

 

I recall feeling a little skeeved out at her introductory scene where Whedon's foot fetish was set on flashing neon anvil, but after that the character was treated well. She was every bit as much of a contributor as any of the guys, and was possibly the one who was depicted as most clever/competent on the team. She played Loki to decipher his plan and figured out what needed to be done to close the space warp vomiting Chitauri troops over Manhattan.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Bruinsfan

[HunterHunted]

I don't think I would have minded Sharon as Steve's love interest if what Sharon was hiding from Steve is not that she's Peggy's great niece, but that she's a SHIELD agent (and maybe on Peggy's security detail). If Sharon is there "acting" as Peggy's nurse when he visits and is familiar enough with Peggy's stories that Sharon can fill in details when Peggy's mind starts wandering, I can see Steve getting nostalgic and transferring his feelings. Yes, it makes Steve slightly more lost and sad, but it's understandable why he might have feelings for Sharon. And if Sharon rebuffs Steve's offers to come in and reminisce about the good old days because those weren't her good old days, that gives Sharon enough of a backbone so she doesn't seem like she has some weird childhood crush.

Or maybe she's hiding both pieces of info, but Steve thinks she's Peggy's memory care nurse. I think there is a need to establish that Sharon and Steve have more familiarity with each other than just neighbors.

Additionally important retired government officials often get security details until death. It makes perfect sense that Peggy would have SHIELD protection.

Edited May 11, 2018 by HunterHunted

[bettername2come]

19 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Scene fades out to an ominous Randy Newman song.

 

You had a friend in me...

[starri]

Is it wrong of me to hope that Aunt May was also dusted?  Because the idea of Peter just disappearing, without her even knowing where he'd gone, and without having gotten a chance to say goodbye to him just makes me so goddamn sad.

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, starri said:

Is it wrong of me to hope that Aunt May was also dusted?  Because the idea of Peter just disappearing, without her even knowing where he'd gone, and without having gotten a chance to say goodbye to him just makes me so goddamn sad.

However that is what happened to everyone in the universe. I think that the audience needs a surrogate character to play that grief. As close as we got was Falcon being unseen as he dusted while War Machine searched for his Air Force bro.

[Bruinsfan]

I think if three and a half billion people disappear at once and Peter doesn't come home from his school trip, May would make the connection even if she'd be in the dark about the specifics of his involvement before the Snapture.

[Perfect Xero]

On 4/24/2018 at 11:54 AM, VCRTracking said:

Worked for me! The reason it did was they HAD showed in Winter Soldier that Bucky was an assassin for Hydra and that Hydra was responsible for Tony's parents death. Therefore it wasn't much to assume Bucky was the one who killed them. It wasn't something they had to retcon for Civil War.

The bigger issue to me is that they retconned in Howard recreating the Super Soldier serum as the reason for it.

The Iron Man films present a narrative of Howard Stark as a man who wanted to move his company away from weapons and into clean energy and who was probably assassinated, either because people like Stane would lose money or because clean/cheap energy would upset the world order in a profound way. As Tony discovers the truth about Howard he goes from resenting his father to feeling an understanding and connection with him. Winter Soldier/Hydra being the ones to take him out for this is just as good as anyone else.

But by tying Howard's death into the Super Solider serum and SHIELD rather than the ARC reactor and clean energy it makes Howard's final act building another weapon, and pretty much undoes the entire arc and progress of the character that had previously been presented.

[Wynterwolf]

32 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

But by tying Howard's death into the Super Solider serum and SHIELD rather than the ARC reactor and clean energy it makes Howard's final act building another weapon, and pretty much undoes the entire arc and progress of the character that had previously been presented.

Unless maybe he thought of it as creating more Captain Americas?  Weapons can be used by anyone, but Howard likely wouldn't have considered that a SuperSoldier could be used the way Bucky was, because they were a person, a soldier.  I don't think Howard ever understood, the way Erskine did, that Steve as Captain America worked because he was Steve Rogers.  And I could see him believing, especially in 1991, that the only way he could justify not making weapons for defense (while he was working on his design for the ARC reactor), was to create something better (kind of like what Tony was trying to do with Ultron and his proliferation of IronMan suits).  Plus, as an inventor, Howard had been obsessed with recreating the serum since the original batch was lost, it didn't seem a stretch to me at all that he would still have been working on that all that time (especially since he had found the tesseract after Steve was lost).  And in a way, that actually brought his character full circle for me, and even tied him more strongly to Tony.  

[JustaPerson]

5 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I don't think I would have minded Sharon as Steve's love interest if what Sharon was hiding from Steve is not that she's Peggy's great niece, but that she's a SHIELD agent (and maybe on Peggy's security detail). If Sharon is there "acting" as Peggy's nurse when he visits and is familiar enough with Peggy's stories that Sharon can fill in details when Peggy's mind starts wandering, I can see Steve getting nostalgic and transferring his feelings. Yes, it makes Steve slightly more lost and sad, but it's understandable why he might have feelings for Sharon. And if Sharon rebuffs Steve's offers to come in and reminisce about the good old days because those weren't her good old days, that gives Sharon enough of a backbone so she doesn't seem like she has some weird childhood crush.

Or maybe she's hiding both pieces of info, but Steve thinks she's Peggy's memory care nurse. I think there is a need to establish that Sharon and Steve have more familiarity with each other than just neighbors.

She did hide both of those details from him, didn't she? When they first met in Winter Soldier, she posed as a nurse who lived in the apartment next to him. She only revealed she was a SHIELD agent when Nick Fury was shot by the Winter Soldier in Steve's apt and she burst in after hearing the shots. 

But I agree with you. I think they're story would have developed in a more natural way if Steve had had a 4th movie. Building them up more in Civil War and then having them kiss in a 4th film would have made more sense. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by JustaPerson

[VCRTracking]

5 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

The bigger issue to me is that they retconned in Howard recreating the Super Soldier serum as the reason for it.

The Iron Man films present a narrative of Howard Stark as a man who wanted to move his company away from weapons and into clean energy and who was probably assassinated, either because people like Stane would lose money or because clean/cheap energy would upset the world order in a profound way. As Tony discovers the truth about Howard he goes from resenting his father to feeling an understanding and connection with him. Winter Soldier/Hydra being the ones to take him out for this is just as good as anyone else.

But by tying Howard's death into the Super Solider serum and SHIELD rather than the ARC reactor and clean energy it makes Howard's final act building another weapon, and pretty much undoes the entire arc and progress of the character that had previously been presented.

Howard Stark also was shown as someone who wouldn't stop talking about Captain America to Tony to the point where he grew up resenting him. Howard also helped create SHIELD to safeguard the post-war world. Agent Carter showed a perfect reason why Howard would want to recreate the super soldier serum. He didn't think of Steve as a weapon. :

 

Quote

"Peg, all I've done my whole life is create destruction. Project Rebirth was— He was the one thing I've done that brought good into this world."

Thinking about when the first Captain America movie came out I remember there were complaints from certain quarters how Steve wasn't all "rah rah" patriotic as someone named "Captain America" should be and that he wanted to enlist not so much that he loved his country but that he hated bullies. There are still some who don't like that the MCU version or the comic(when he isn't brainwashed by Hydra) isn't as he's right-wing or nationalistic as they'd like.

Edited May 12, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Danny Franks]

5 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Thinking about when the first Captain America movie came out I remember there were complaints from certain quarters how Steve wasn't all "rah rah" patriotic as someone named "Captain America" should be and that he wanted to enlist not so much that he loved his country but that he hated bullies. There are still some who don't like that the MCU version or the comic(when he isn't brainwashed by Hydra) isn't as he's right-wing or nationalistic as they'd like.

 

I used to know a rather right wing Texan gentleman, who was absolutely thrilled when he saw that Captain America was going to start carrying a gun (this was when Bucky took the mantle), because he felt it was an endorsement of his Second Amendment rights. He didn't even read comics, just blindly absorbed all the flag-waving, uber-patriotic culture wherever he could.

I never bothered to show him the books for Civil War, where Steve was essentially a dissident against the Patriot Act on steroids. The point being that true patriots stand up to government tyranny, as much as they do to outside threats.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Danny Franks

[Fukui San]

There was an 80s storyline in which Cap was saving a room full of hostages in Europe I think. He knocks out a terrorist and wears his uniform. He doesn’t take out all of the bad guys in time, and the remaining one starts machine gunning down the hostages. Cap is forced to use the gun he’s carrying to shoot and kill the shooter. 

He then spends the next few issues struggling with the morality and legality of his actions. Shield offers to cover for him, making him an agent retroactively, authorizing his actions. Public disapproval of Cap using a gun and an emerging rival patriotic superhero erode his popularity. I remember it as a well drawn dilemma. 

Ultimately Cap doesn’t take Shield’s offer. He goes on TV and earnestly explains his actions, something like “I don’t like using guns and taking life, but there was no choice. I’ll stand trial or face whatever consequences there are.” 

I’m not sure what Cap is like these days in comics. The cap from this storyline is miles away from the Ultimates “This A on my head doesn’t stand for France” Cap. MCU Cap is generally morally solid. He has a healthy distrust of Authority, and he’s not an A hole. 

[Joe]

6 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Thinking about when the first Captain America movie came out I remember there were complaints from certain quarters how Steve wasn't all "rah rah" patriotic as someone named "Captain America" should be and that he wanted to enlist not so much that he loved his country but that he hated bullies. There are still some who don't like that the MCU version or the comic(when he isn't brainwashed by Hydra) isn't as he's right-wing or nationalistic as they'd like.

Here in Australia, I was worried he'd be all rah rah, and was happy that he wasn't. Surprisingly, patriotism for one country plays badly in other countries. :) So yes, generic 'good person' kind of stuff is abetter take on it.

[HunterHunted]

23 hours ago, bettername2come said:

You had a friend in me...

Edited May 12, 2018 by HunterHunted

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, Fukui San said:

I’m not sure what Cap is like these days in comics. The cap from this storyline is miles away from the Ultimates “This A on my head doesn’t stand for France” Cap. MCU Cap is generally morally solid. He has a healthy distrust of Authority, and he’s not an A hole. 

I haven't read him lately but the new writer is Ta-Nahesi Coates and certain people have not reacted well to that:

Just to warn you the maker of this video is the kind of guy who gets irked whenever there'sw a female science in a comic book, so....

Edited May 12, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Fukui San]

29 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I haven't read him lately but the new writer is Ta-Nahesi Coates and certain people have not reacted well to that:

 

Just to warn you the maker of this video is the kind of guy who gets irked whenever there'sw a female science in a comic book, so....

 Thank you for the info! Somehow I have no desire to click on that link.

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, Fukui San said:

 Thank you for the info! Somehow I have no desire to click on that link.

Yeah, I couldn't watch even a minute and I don't blame people for not clicking I just wanted to show these videos exist. How "SJWs" and "diversity" are "ruining comics".

Edited May 12, 2018 by VCRTracking

[festivus]

Yeah I couldn't click that either. I don't want to give that person any hits.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

18 hours ago, JustaPerson said:

She did hide both of those details from him, didn't she? When they first met in Winter Soldier, she posed as a nurse who lived in the apartment next to him. She only revealed she was a SHIELD agent when Nick Fury was shot by the Winter Soldier in Steve's apt and she burst in after hearing the shots.

Yes. Steve catches her in the hall talking on the phone, and she says something after ending the call about how her aunt was an insomniac. She goes on to say she has a load of laundry going downstairs that she needs to get back to, and he offers to let her use his machine in exchange for a coffee date, which was probably the only time he ever tried to take Natasha's advice about having more of a social life. Sharon declined by saying that she worked a long shift in the infectious diseases ward and that he probably wouldn't want her laundry in his apartment. They don't meet again until he finds out she's Agent 13, and since she's not in AoU she could have been on the moon for all it mattered since he doesn't even reference her.

Also, random, but I saw this in my MCU group on Facebook.

This is a picture of Gamora, Mantis and Drax:

[HunterHunted]

56 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Yes. Steve catches her in the hall talking on the phone, and she says something after ending the call about how her aunt was an insomniac. She goes on to say she has a load of laundry going downstairs that she needs to get back to, and he offers to let her use his machine in exchange for a coffee date, which was probably the only time he ever tried to take Natasha's advice about having more of a social life. Sharon declined by saying that she worked a long shift in the infectious diseases ward and that he probably wouldn't want her laundry in his apartment. They don't meet again until he finds out she's Agent 13, and since she's not in AoU she could have been on the moon for all it mattered since he doesn't even reference her.

Steve's interactions with Sharon are all frontloaded in Winter Soldier. They've got the coffee date/laundry interaction, she bursts into his apartment when the Winter Soldier fires on Nick Fury, and Steve very tersely calls her "Agent" when he passes her in the hall on the way to his debrief with Alexander Pierce. After that we see scenes with her, but she never interacts with him again until Civil War. It's a huge mistake that she's not at the party scene in AoU.

However, I still think a slight tweak of her intro could have radically improved how their romance came off. Sharon was already undercover as a nurse. I think having her undercover as Peggy's nurse probably helps improve how the relationship comes off.

Steve is walking into a room. The first person he sees is a pretty blonde nurse in scrubs.

Steve smiles and says: Hey, Sharon. How's our girl today?

Sharon: She's pretty good today.

Sharon smiles at him.

The Peggy and Steve interaction plays out pretty much as it is in the movie.

However, Steve notices Sharon grabbing her purse and looking to leave for the day. He asks her out. We don't see that, but we see after the date. They are a bit awkward. Steve invites her up to his place, which is around the corner. They are in front of the door. You can hear the music playing outside. Steve gets even more awkward. Sharon lets him off the hook.

Sharon: Steve, how about we go a little slower. 

She kisses him on the cheek.

Sharon: I'll see you around.

Sharon walks down the hall. Steve exhales and enters the apartment.

The rest of the movie plays out almost as it was in the film, except that Sharon identifies herself just as Agent 13 and doesn't indicate whether she's assigned to Steve or Peggy.

I love Winter Soldier and think it's nearly perfect, but I think 90 - 120 extra seconds of footage devoted to Sharon and Steve and adding Sharon to the party scene in AoU was necessary to make all 5 minutes of that romance across 2 films not seem like hot garbage.

It sounds like I'm really invested in Sharon and Steve. I'm not. I'm actually a big Peggy and Steve fan and a bit of a Stucky shipper. However, I like Steve enough as a character that I'm kind of disappointed that his other canon romance was botched so badly.

[festivus]

I'm going to be honest and say that I don't think there's anything they could have done to make the Sharon thing work for me. I know it's a thing in the comics and I don't know much about it but I find it icky in the movies. I wish they'd just kept her an ally for Steve because of her love for her aunt. It's probably more the fault of the MCU and the fact that they suck at romance but I didn't see any chemistry between her and Steve either. It doesn't help that there is such good writing for Steve and his friends and so much chemistry there also. Anything else is just going to come up short to that.

[Twilight Man]

Russo brothers discuss off-screen characters who died and lived during the snapture.

 

Big spoiler alert:    Russo brothers refuse to say anything regarding

Spoiler

Jane (Nat Portman) Foster.   (Wow, they're actually going to bring Jane back.   Maybe as Thor-Jane.)

 

On 5/11/2018 at 6:41 PM, starri said:

Is it wrong of me to hope that Aunt May was also dusted? 

Well, apparently,

Spoiler

she's fine.

and enough with the conspiracy theories already; Loki is dead.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Twilight Man

[Fukui San]

This Cap/Sharon Carter discussion had me looking up info on Caps' relationships in the comics, and it turned up this delightful graphic.

I don't know when this is from. Late 90's/early 00's? And these aren't all girlfriends. Viper's a mortal enemy, Holly Ridley is just and acquaintance, for example. My period of reading Cap coincided only with the tail end of the Bernie Rosenthal relationship and the Diamondback one. I don't remember either relationship having a breakup scene. Both just stopped.

Honestly, my favorite way to give MCU Steve a relationship would have been to just have Bernie Rosenthal show up in the middle of Winter Soldier and we find out they're in the middle of the most normal relationship possible. Just Netflix and Chilling. Actually, that's basically the relationship they gave to Hawkeye, isn't it? Guess you can't go to that well again.

[HunterHunted]

I know most folks here don't keep up with Agents of SHIELD, but I'm way more disturbed by Graviton crumpling people up like pieces of paper than Thanos turning people to ash, even though Graviton has killed a bunch of red shirts and Thanos unmade characters I care about. The visuals with Graviton have been horrific--the slow crumple of their limbs, the sounds, the silent screams, and the resultant mass of flesh. With Thanos, the ash almost underscores his belief that he is the hero. Like he feels he could have done this in a more painful way, but he didn't. Of course, the comparison between Thanos and Graviton is supposed to be there because the last couple of episodes take place during Infinity War.

[VCRTracking]

32 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I know most folks here don't keep up with Agents of SHIELD, but I'm way more disturbed by Graviton crumpling people up like pieces of paper than Thanos turning people to ash, even though Graviton has killed a bunch of red shirts and Thanos unmade characters I care about. The visuals with Graviton have been horrific--the slow crumple of their limbs, the sounds, the silent screams, and the resultant mass of flesh. With Thanos, the ash almost underscores his belief that he is the hero. Like he feels he could have done this in a more painful way, but he didn't. Of course, the comparison between Thanos and Graviton is supposed to be there because the last couple of episodes take place during Infinity War.

Agreed that the way Graviton kills people is more horrific and unsettling. The FX on Agents of SHIELD have improved a lot since season 1. The Confederation spaceship looked movie worthy. I liked how Infinity War handled the deaths. The ash was a cool way of showing it. In the comics they just disappeared but in a movie the audience could take that they were disapearing or teleporting somewhere. Them turning into ash shows they are D-E-A-D dead.

Edited May 13, 2018 by VCRTracking

[HunterHunted]

10 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

 

I hate to quote myself, but I have the hardest time editing comments without text. It's a How It Should Have Ended video of Ultron creepily quoting Disney song lyrics including "You've Got a Friend in Me."

[Raja]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

Agreed that the way Graviton kills people is more horrific and unsettling. The FX on Agents of SHIELD have improved a lot since season 1. The Confederation spaceship looked movie worthy. I liked how Infinity War handled the deaths. The ash was a cool way of showing it. In the comics they just disappeared but in a movie the audience could take that they were disapearing or teleporting somewhere. Them turning into ash shows they are D-E-A-D dead.

They made good use of limited money reusing the old SSR  base set as the Lighthouse,  future Lighthouse and starship corridors over their last 2 seasons 

[AimingforYoko]

Bad news: Looks like we won't be getting a Ms. Marvel TV show.

Good news: It does look like she's joining the MCU.

[Bruinsfan]

With Perlmutter in charge of the TV arm, I don't think the first point is actually bad news. My impression is that a young teen Muslim girl of color is like a checklist of traits he doesn't think the public would have any interest in (because of course the viewing public is exclusively straight, white, male, and unable to sympathize with characters who aren't).

[Cobalt Stargazer]

6 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

With Perlmutter in charge of the TV arm, I don't think the first point is actually bad news. My impression is that a young teen Muslim girl of color is like a checklist of traits he doesn't think the public would have any interest in (because of course the viewing public is exclusively straight, white, male, and unable to sympathize with characters who aren't).

Is that not usually the complaint,, though? That all the whiny fanboys (as if there's another kind) are white and straight and soundly reject anything other than white, straight males? Except for maybe Natasha, but none of the other female characters, obvs.

[Spartan Girl]

23 hours ago, Twilight Man said:

Russo brothers discuss off-screen characters who died and lived during the snapture.

 

Big spoiler alert:    Russo brothers refuse to say anything regarding

  Reveal hidden contents

Jane (Nat Portman) Foster.   (Wow, they're actually going to bring Jane back.   Maybe as Thor-Jane.)

 

Well, apparently,

  Reveal hidden contents

she's fine.

and enough with the conspiracy theories already; Loki is dead.

Interesting article. I know I'm going to hell for this because

Betty Ross is nice and doesn't deserve to die but SERVES YOU RIGHT, SECRETARY DOUCHEBAG ROSS!

[benteen]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 10:33 AM, Fukui San said:

There was an 80s storyline in which Cap was saving a room full of hostages in Europe I think. He knocks out a terrorist and wears his uniform. He doesn’t take out all of the bad guys in time, and the remaining one starts machine gunning down the hostages. Cap is forced to use the gun he’s carrying to shoot and kill the shooter. 

He then spends the next few issues struggling with the morality and legality of his actions. Shield offers to cover for him, making him an agent retroactively, authorizing his actions. Public disapproval of Cap using a gun and an emerging rival patriotic superhero erode his popularity. I remember it as a well drawn dilemma. 

Ultimately Cap doesn’t take Shield’s offer. He goes on TV and earnestly explains his actions, something like “I don’t like using guns and taking life, but there was no choice. I’ll stand trial or face whatever consequences there are.” 

I’m not sure what Cap is like these days in comics. The cap from this storyline is miles away from the Ultimates “This A on my head doesn’t stand for France” Cap. MCU Cap is generally morally solid. He has a healthy distrust of Authority, and he’s not an A hole. 

That storyline definitely seems like more of a comic storyline when it comes to the whole killing.  I think very few people would care about Cap using a gun in that situation.

If I had any issue with the first Captain America movie (other than it wasn't as strong as later Cap movies and the Red Skull was a disappointment) is Disney Marvel's deliberate decision to tone down on the patriotic elements.  Steve is a man who loves his country and Disney did its very best to tamp down on this.  That includes Chris Evans ridiculous quote that you could call Captain America "Captain Good" in that movie.  You know, because Captain Good is a really great concept... 

Would it have killed Disney to have Steve say once in the movie that he loves his country?  I'm not talking about making him a right-winger who blindly follows orders.  Steve doesn't like bullies, that's most definitely true.  But he loves his country too and wants to serve it.  MCU Steve seems to have no interest in his country whatsoever.

Edited May 14, 2018 by benteen

[VCRTracking]

4 hours ago, benteen said:

Would it have killed Disney to have Steve say once in the movie that he loves his country?  I'm not talking about making him a right-winger who blindly follows orders.  Steve doesn't like bullies, that's most definitely true.  But he loves his country too and wants to serve it.  MCU Steve seems to have no interest in his country whatsoever.

If a guy walked around willingly wearing a uniform patterned like the flag of (insert name of country) and calling himself "Captain (insert name of country)" I'm going to guess he loves (insert name of country) I don't need him to say it out loud.

[benteen]

12 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

If a guy walked around willingly wearing a uniform patterned like the flag of (insert name of country) and calling himself "Captain (insert name of country)" I'm going to guess he loves (insert name of country) I don't need him to say it out loud.

Disney sure tried its best to make that happen.  Remember, he's Captain Good!

Edited May 14, 2018 by benteen

[Danny Franks]

4 hours ago, benteen said:

Disney sure tried its best to make that happen.  Remember, he's Captain Good!

 

The thing about modern Captain America, at least as written by everyone since Ed Brubaker, is that he has been more of a cynical patriot. Someone who believes his country could be great, but is so disappointed in the reality of it. I don't think he's been a guy who openly declared his patriotism. And I think that is a version of the character that readers of any nationality can get behind. Even the simple-minded flag wavers in America should be able to empathise with some of what Cap seemed to believe.

Now, I do agree that he could have said it in the first movie. Or maybe more fittingly in the second, because they could have brought some of that cynicism in, for a guy freshly defrosted in a world he barely understands. But as a non-American, I will confess that I had no clue he didn't say anything like that. I just assumed he did.

Comic books have often been on the progressive, liberal end of the political spectrum, given that they were mostly written by Jewish writers in the early days, and they inevitably focused a lot on outsiders and minorities (especially the X-Men). Even early Cap was about the greatness of liberal democracy, opposing fascism. Sadly, some modern comic book fans don't seem to recognise or understand that. Perhaps because there's something of an overlap between comic book fans and misogynistic, bigoted neckbeard types.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Danny Franks

[HunterHunted]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

If a guy walked around willingly wearing a uniform patterned like the flag of (insert name of country) and calling himself "Captain (insert name of country)" I'm going to guess he loves (insert name of country) I don't need him to say it out loud.

2 hours ago, benteen said:

Disney sure tried its best to make that happen.  Remember, he's Captain Good!

 

These films needed to make money in countries beside America. Having Steve walk around saying "I love America" "America is the best" or "America is the greatest country on the planet" is the dumbest decision Disney could ever make. Disney is in the business of making money, not having bonfires where they set fire to $150 million because they really wanted audiences to know that Steve loved his country.

People who are at best ambivalent about America don't repeatedly try to join the military. People who are just fixated on "fighting bullies" run off and join the French Foreign Legion after being rejected by the US military as many times as Steve did. And people who just wanted to help the war effort would have worked in a factory making munitions. I think it was pretty obvious, especially with the war bond plot diversion, that Steve's goal was to fight and fight for his country.

[Dee]

Deadpool 2 Writers Would ‘Absolutely’ Do a Marvel Cinematic Universe Movie

Quote

A key component of the growing Deadpool franchise is poking other superhero movies in the eye. But, according to Deadpool and (along with Ryan Reynolds) Deadpool 2 screenwriters Rhett Reese and Paul Wernick, any and all poking comes from a place of love. Bring up the Marvel Cinematic Universe (the place where the Avengers hang out, which is not the same world as the one Deadpool resides in), and they have nothing but nice things to say — in fact, they might want in on the action.

“We would love to do it,” Wernick tells Vulture when asked whether they’d ever write an MCU picture. “You look at Thor: Ragnarok. Thor: Ragnarok was brilliant, and funny, and heartfelt, and had all those things that we love to do. Iron Man — there’s some wonderful characters out there that we adore that we would love to write. Absolutely.”

Edited May 15, 2018 by Dee

[benteen]

Deadpool could definitely work in the MCU.  His own movies could still be R-rated but you could make a joke of him being in a PG-13 movie.  Basically, you beep out all of his cursing and he breaks the fourth wall as the only one who notices it.

[Morrigan2575]

20 minutes ago, benteen said:

Deadpool could definitely work in the MCU.  His own movies could still be R-rated but you could make a joke of him being in a PG-13 movie.  Basically, you beep out all of his cursing and he breaks the fourth wall as the only one who notices it.

Yeah, i agree they can easily make Deadpool work in the MCU 

[JessePinkman]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Deadpool could definitely work in the MCU.  His own movies could still be R-rated but you could make a joke of him being in a PG-13 movie.  Basically, you beep out all of his cursing and he breaks the fourth wall as the only one who notices it.

Sounds like a distraction to me. I'd welcome other characters in his movie but not him in others movies if that makes any sense. I think that's how he works best in the comics too, when he's doing his schtick in someone else's story it sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Joe]

Please no. I hate too much meta/self-aware humour, and that's basically his schtick.

[benteen]

He could definitely fit in the Marvel Universe.  Rick Remander really used him well in team books.

[stealinghome]

29 minutes ago, Joe said:

Please no. I hate too much meta/self-aware humour, and that's basically his schtick.

Yeah, I'm actively against having Deadpool in the MCU. The character is a one-trick pony, and I was over that trick one-third of the way through his solo movie.

[festivus]

I don't really want Deadpool in the MCU. It's better if he's over in his own movie saying something like he wanted to help The Avengers save New York but his offer was rejected. I think it works better with him being the outsider.

[Dee]

Mindy Kaling and Riz Ahmed Want to Do a Ms. Marvel Movie, and That’s Not Beyond the Realm of Possibility

Quote

In the past decade, two Marvel Comics characters have been breakout sensations: Deadpool and Ms. Marvel. The former has already seen his renown translated to the wider world via the silver screen, with a monster-hit film under his mercenary’s belt and a sequel on the way this weekend. The latter character hasn’t yet made the leap to the cineplex, but that’s likely to change in the not-so-distant future — and some familiar names want in on the action.

But before we get to all that, you’re probably asking yourself, who is Ms. Marvel? Well, Ms. Marvel was once the alter ego of a character named Carol Danvers, who has Superman-esque powers and has been punching around the Marvel universe since the late 1960s. In 2012, Marvel’s leadership saw fit to have Carol adopt the name Captain Marvel, a title previously held by multiple meta-human figures. (She still goes by that name, and will star in a movie that bears it next year.) For a few years, “Ms. Marvel” was a defunct moniker. Then, along came Sana Amanat.

A Pakistani-American from New Jersey, Amanat had been an editor at Marvel since 2009. In a conversation with fellow editor Steve Wacker, Amanat concocted the notion of a superhero with a similar background to her own. They reached out to writer (and practicing Muslim) G. Willow Wilson and artist Adrian Alphona, and, as a result of the quartet’s efforts, a new character was born: Kamala Khan. She was to be a teenage Muslim, Pakistani-American hero from Jersey City, and she made her debut in 2014. She’s what’s called an Inhuman (yes, like the terrible canceled TV series), and her unique genetic makeup allows her to heal quickly and grow and shrink at will. Her starring series, Ms. Marvel, was an unexpected smash, with the first issue going to print run after print run and the collected edition of the first story line becoming a best seller. She’s become a staple of Marvel’s printed output, with her Wilson-penned solo title dishing out consistently engrossing monthly tales of city-saving and teenage introspection.

Of course, the true sign of a superhero’s success these days is getting into a major motion picture. Fans have clamored for a big-screen Kamala for years, and it looks like their wish may soon be granted. A few days ago, Marvel Studios grand pooh-bah Kevin Feige told the BBC, “Ms. Marvel, which is another character in the comic books, the Muslim hero who is inspired by Captain Marvel, is definitely sort of in the works. We have plans for that once we introduce Captain Marvel.” Fans of the Marvel Cinematic Universe will know that a Captain Marvel movie has been in the works for years (now starring Oscar-winner Brie Larson as the titular heroine) and that it was recently teased at the end of Infinity War.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Dee

[Silver Raven]

2 hours ago, festivus said:

I don't really want Deadpool in the MCU. It's better if he's over in his own movie saying something like he wanted to help The Avengers save New York but his offer was rejected. I think it works better with him being the outsider.

I just wish they could get Wolverine into one of his movies.

[HunterHunted]

5 hours ago, benteen said:

Deadpool could definitely work in the MCU.  His own movies could still be R-rated but you could make a joke of him being in a PG-13 movie.  Basically, you beep out all of his cursing and he breaks the fourth wall as the only one who notices it.

4 hours ago, JessePinkman said:

Sounds like a distraction to me. I'd welcome other characters in his movie but not him in others movies if that makes any sense. I think that's how he works best in the comics too, when he's doing his schtick in someone else's story it sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

2 hours ago, festivus said:

I don't really want Deadpool in the MCU. It's better if he's over in his own movie saying something like he wanted to help The Avengers save New York but his offer was rejected. I think it works better with him being the outsider.

 

I think Deadpool might work, but only if done really well. Has anybody ever read Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead (I've never seen it performed) or seen the Justice League Unlimited episode "The Greatest Story Never Told"? The former is a retelling of Hamlet from the perspective of side characters. The latter is an episode where the Justice League is fighting some huge world ending battle, but Booster Gold is put on crowd control duty. He has his own wacky adventures that could possibly end the world too, but the Justice League has no knowledge that any of it happened. Deadpool can show up as cameo in the main MCU, but most of his stories are happening at the margins of the rest of the MCU.

It actually reminds me of what's happening on Agents of SHIELD This season. They've known all season that someone will crack the Earth into pieces and kill almost all of humanity. They've been working all season to prevent it. They finally figure out who destroys the planet; it's Graviton. The team hasn't realized that Thanos is having this massive battle with the Avengers in Wakanda because they are busy fighting Graviton. The irony of this is that Graviton will accidentally destroy the planet in an attempt to stop Thanos. He's basically the only character in Agents of SHIELD who knows that Infinity War is happening.

So yeah, that's how I'd like them to incorporate Deadpool into the MCU. I want them to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern him.

[Enigma X]

I sort of want all of the Marvel characters in one universe again. That includes Deadpool.

[Fukui San]

29 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I sort of want all of the Marvel characters in one universe again. That includes Deadpool.

Deadpool turns to dust.

"It's OK! I'll be back for Deadpool Twoooooooo!"

[HunterHunted]

I been thinking about how to rank all of the fathers in the MCU (Massively Crappy (Fathers) Universe) because there are some real doozies. From best to worst:

1. Hawkeye--he's an Avenger and mostly retired; he set up a farm to keep his family safe
2. T'Chaka--good father overall, except for his terrible decision to abandon his nephew
3. Scott Lang--seems willing to do anything for his daughter, except for his random decision to get involved with Cap during Civil War
4. N'Jobu--violently militant activist, but loved his son enough to teach him of his birthright
5. Drax--his grief over the loss of his family motivates him to become the destroyer
6. Rocket--he's a foul mouthed raccoon who steals and has abandonment issues, but he loves Groot
7. Hank Pym--brilliant and withholding; if he had simply told Hope what happened to her mother she might have not hated Hank for 20 years. Literally just talk to her
8. Howard Stark--brilliant and withholding; he constantly compared Tony to Steve and gave Tony a complex
9. Helmut Zemo--tried to keep his family safe, but his grief sends him around the bend and he does just awful things as a result
10. Adrian Toomes--he cares about his family, but his villainy feels more motivated by his ego and feelings of impotence
11. Thunderbolt Ross--he's literally doing none of this to protect Betty. Betty who?
12. Yondu--kidnapped Peter as a child, teaches him to steal, and threatens to eat him; however, he was keeping Peter safe from his much worse father, Ego
13. Odin--lied constantly to his children; he raised Thor and Loki to be hypercompetitive. He's imprisoned 2 of his kids, Loki and Hela.
14. It's a tie! Thanos and Ego. Thanos tortures and murders his kids all so that he can destroy half of the life in the universe. Ego kills his children or plans to use them as batteries so that he can replace all life in the universe with himself.

Did I miss anyone? What order would you put them in?