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S05.E02: Trespassers

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Gordon and Bullock investigate a location where several kids have been kidnapped. Barbara proves to be an unlikely ally to Gordon. Meanwhile, Bruce looks into an alleged witch with healing powers for Selina, and Nygma deals with demons of his own.

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Original air date: 1/10/19

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Well now that I think about it, it is kind of obvious that "the witch" was going to be Ivy.  And we get the beginning of Selina decent into Cat Woman.  

Jim Gordon....how do I say this.  Ahh yes  "Not everyone wants your help Jim Gordon."  Only Jim Gordon can have a hit put out on him and get caught out on the streets with limited firepower and two different gangs wanting him dead.....and still walk away from it.  Jim Gordon is magic.  

Still no Lee Thomkins.  I am going to keep brining it up show.

Also planning a day trip to Gotham.  Anyone want to join me?

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Eh, Gotham has so much potential, but misses the mark by being too out there and also missing the emotional beats to make the show work. Why did the people after Jim have to be so Mad Max? And why is Jim so stoic about the state of his relationship with Barbara? He used to love her. The writers are doing a much better job with the Bruce/Selina story, maybe because the actors are young so they have to reign it in somewhat.

I will never stop being uncomfortable about and creeped out how they aged a little girl into a sex pot type.

Edited by SimoneS
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An alright episode i suppose. Harvey was just so done after being shot at with arrows, lol! 

Jim made it outta all that mess almost squeaky clean except for a few scratches. 

I like ed's new biker friend. I wonder if he's just a one-off or if he'll show up in the background of a few more eps.

Surprisingly, Ivy had completely slipped my mind when it came to the identity of the witch. I was thinking of lee or maybe a newbie.

The jim/harvey stuff felt more like an irrelevant side quest, though. I feel like only one or two tidbits of that entire plot line were important. Probably didn't need to take up a whole episode. 

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10 minutes ago, WritinMan said:

"Well, you see, Doc, a crazy woman dug up this gross-looking thing--had some dirt and blood on it--and Selina ate it."

He's a doctor in Gotham, that's probably down on the bottom of the list of crazy he's probably dealt with. 

So we are going with Batman returns Catwoman where she has actual cat powers. It make since for it be Ivy of the changing faces that helps her since Selina helped her when they were both kids. I"m not surprised that Gotham has a bunch of crazies roaming around. You gotta be crazy to continue to live in that city. I love that Gotham is so extra, that's what makes it different than the other hero shows. Just like Legends of tomorrow their motto has to be why the f not. So having a mask wearing drug addict gang vs a painted skull mask gang is exactly what Gotham is.  Same with Gordon always surviving whether he gets shot a couple of times or not. Gotham probably needs a cop that has his own  magic powers even if it is just surviving everything. 

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I like the implication of this final season . .. that all most people need a little time to devolve into anarchy. And Gothamites? They go whole hog with it after three months. I bet the park trespassers have never been to England, yet one of them has a bit of an English accent. "The legends say a witch stalks the forest. It matters not what faction or gang you belong to. You take one step too many, the Witch gobbles you up, she does!" "Earl. Dude. You were a plumber four months ago. Can you at least slow down your slide into Crazytown?" Also, more Warriors-style dress themes!

Wait . . . so seemingly getting revived by cats the way Michelle Pfeiffer and Halle Berry did in their movies doesn't turn Selina into Catwoman . . . . but a magic herb from Ivy does? Hey, why not? At least Bruce hesitated before giving it to Selina, even after her "The little Ivy Pepper I know is somewhere deep inside that confused woman whom men would like to bone" speech.

Seriously thinking Harvey will up and quit before season's end . ..  or I would if I hadn't seen the flash-forward last week. If he were to go to the river and try to swim to the mainland, would anyone blame him? Jim goes into the spooky building and meets a kid. Harvey goes elsewhere and discovers piles of jewelry. And teeth. And fingers. And a totally psycho "Mother" bitch. While I wouldn't call Jim's life "charmed," he does have slightly less mental scarring, and he looked badass shooting the gang leaders. Credit to Barbara and her crew ("Barbaramazons"?) for softening the gangs up. Looks like she'll be working with Jim. Should be interesting.

Kid slaves? Overkill. Reminds me of "The Underdwellers," which I consider the worst B:TAS episode.

Ed/Riddler drama is still a bit annoying, though not as contrived as Caitlin/Killer Frost over on The Flash. I like the idea that the same burly dude had to get worked over twice by the same guy for information. Ed-as-Riddler posing? Also hilarious.

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They have what, 12 episodes to wrap everything up? And we still have an episode where there are just a bunch of completely random villains, shootouts and running around with no real point...

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So, it was Ivy who was "The Witch."  Should have known.  And sure enough, she has something that can "cure" Selina, but it looks like it is going to cause her to go down a darker path.  Yep, Selina's official transformation to Catwoman has begun!

Despite the bounty, Jim continues to be a thorn in everyone sides, mainly thanks to all of the baddies never just shooting him and collecting, and instead announcing that he has a bounty on his head first.  It's nice to have such generous criminals!

Nygma has moved past sleepwalking to sleep-torturing.  Classic Nygma!

Barbara wants Jim to throw in with her to finally take out Oswald.  Judging from last week's flash-forward, I'm guessing that isn't going to work out.

Bullock's WTF?! reactions to... well, everything, were the best parts of the episode.

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Ivy has definitely crossed into "insane loon" territory, so she's all set for living in Gotham.

Poor Harvey. He needs about 3 months in Key West. 

I was surprised little Jimmy's escape was not, actually, a trap for Jim and the GCPD.I

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8 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Wait . . . so seemingly getting revived by cats the way Michelle Pfeiffer and Halle Berry did in their movies doesn't turn Selina into Catwoman . . . . but a magic herb from Ivy does?

I didn't understand this. Is it because she used to be a "cat burglar"? 

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Maybe it took the herb to bring out the cat side from the cats that revived her. Didn't Bruce ask if there was blood on it? It could've been cats blood. This is Gotham anything insane is possible. They don't need Arkham, Gotham is an asylum. 

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I like how Bruce didn’t bother to tell Selina the side effect (turning to the dark side) before he gave her the root. I guess in Gotham that passes for informed consent.  She would have eaten it anyway, but still.   

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Was I the only one who thought Lee was the leader of that gang ( before Jim shot her?) kind of looked like her.

Erin Richards looks much older than earlier seasons, I liked her better with longer hair.

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Everything concerning Bruce, Ivy and Selina was the highlight of this episode. I loved Ivy's costume, very comic book accurate and I do want to see more of her before the show ends for good.

Despite her attitude, it's nice that Ivy does care enough to help Selina and seeing the latter with the cat eyes after she was cured was an interesting move. Will they go down the metahuman route with Selina?

The Gordon/Bullock/Barbara helping the kids part and those gangs felt like filler, though I did like the catch up on Mother and Orphan as well.

Edward's side adventure with the biker was amusing enough.

Did miss Oswald this week and can we catch up with Leslie already? 7/10

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2 hours ago, Msample said:

Was I the only one who thought Lee was the leader of that gang ( before Jim shot her?) kind of looked like her.

I thought so too and I thought it sounded like her. Maybe it is her and now she can't die because of whatever Hugo did to her. If it's not her, that's a waste of a cool look.

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I'm 45 years old, and it's been a LONG time since I've been this captivated about a TV show.  The costumes, settings, and cinematography are all right up my ally. Plot and story has room for improvement, but most drama/adventure shows struggle with great story from time to time. 

That said, I love the overall plot (city is stranded...gangs taking over).  I also love some of the subplots (the birth of the true Sirens, Bad ass Joker, Wayne's continued progression into the bat).

I'm completely disappointed in Catwoman's birth.  What does a magical tree seed have to do with cats?  Did a bunch of cats piss on it transferring their genetics, lol? Very weak.  Very disappointed that Ivy is being depicted as a psychopath killer. She was always a woman who kills for a cause...not for the sake of killing.  They messed up Ivy from day 1 on this show if you ask me.  Most of the other subplots are just slow story building, imo.  They don't add anything right now, but I'm sure stuff like Riddler's personality meld will play a bigger part later.   

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So we have Jim and Harvey on an Odyssey around Gotham trying to save some kids, and they tangle with drug addled Mad Max rejects, a creepy lady in a mask and a murder house, and some crazy circus clown people, and got rescued by his crime boss ex girlfriend wielding a massive machine gun on a truck. Just a typical Thursday in Gotham. 

Kind of a pointless episode, except for Selina getting her cat powers and the safe haven being opened, but I enjoyed this side quest none the less. Before we leave Gotham, I am happy to spend a bit more time running around with all the classic Gotham craziness. Because no one in Gotham goes halfway, no way. Its go hard or go home in Gotham. You cant just riot or start hording drugs and selling them when the city loses contact with the rest of the world,, oh no. You wear your most ridiculous Purge style costume, carve out a territory, and start shooting people with arrows and shit.  

Ivy has always been a bit of a mess of a character, ever since they made her a child in an adults body, but I did think the creepy witch gothic stuff with Bruce was pretty cool. The outfit she had on was pretty close to some of her comic costumes, as was her bonding with a semi magical murder garden. And now Selina gets her cat powers, which is kind of a weird place to get cat powers (did a cat get stuck in the tree one time?) but we will see where it goes. I do like that they tied it into the friendship that Selina and Ivy have had previously. 

Looking forward to the Jim and Barbara team up. And seeing Selina and Bruce dealing with her cat powers. 

Harvey is just so over it, he just cannot deal with any of this what the fuck this is. "Arrows Jim! Arrows!" "Your a crazy bitch!"

Edited by tennisgurl
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I will never understand the decisions behind ageing up Ivy. She would always be a kid in a woman's body so even if they wanted to make her "sexier", the creep factor would always remain. In the scene she had with Bruce, I didn't see anything that the new actress did that Claire Foley couldn't have done ten times better with the slightly-cuckoo, slightly-menacing edge she gave to early seasons Ivy. Sadly, this is just one of several mis-steps that this show made over the course of the seasons. 

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9 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I didn't understand this. Is it because she used to be a "cat burglar"? 

Cat Scratch Fever.  No, I am not talking about the Ted Nugent song, though I do like that song.

6 hours ago, Msample said:

Was I the only one who thought Lee was the leader of that gang ( before Jim shot her?) kind of looked like her.

I must be completely losing it.  For some reason, I thought Lee was dead and some how she is the one screwing with Nygma's brain.  I am waiting for Nygma to look in the mirror and see Lee.

With bodies dropping all of the time, I can't keep track of who is dead, and who should be dead but instead is evolving into something else only to come back later on the show.

Gordon needs a laxative, his voice is grating.  Like nails on a chalkboard.  Maybe removing his head from his ass would help.

Edited by icemiser69

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15 hours ago, ursula said:

I will never understand the decisions behind ageing up Ivy. She would always be a kid in a woman's body so even if they wanted to make her "sexier", the creep factor would always remain. In the scene she had with Bruce, I didn't see anything that the new actress did that Claire Foley couldn't have done ten times better with the slightly-cuckoo, slightly-menacing edge she gave to early seasons Ivy. Sadly, this is just one of several mis-steps that this show made over the course of the seasons. 

I am going to make the correct guess that aging Ivy was the perverted brainstorm of some 40 year or older white male who wanted another woman to brutalize and dress in sexy half naked clothes and drool over. It is even worse that they have Selina reminiscing about taking care of Ivy all alone living on the streets. Ivy should be the same age as Bruce and Selina struggling to transition into adulthood, not some twenty year old seductress.

Edited by SimoneS
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3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

It is even worse that they have Selina reminiscing about taking care of Ivy all alone living on the streets. Ivy should be the same age as Bruce and Selina struggling to transition into adulthood, not some twenty year seductress.

It's like they realized at the last minute that there was more to the character of Ivy than "sexy plant lady" and they had an established relationship between her and the other "kids" that could make her interesting.

Edited by ursula
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letter-f.jpg5c397281cfce3_BullockMeter3.png.61fe19606f8e35c07141df4a75ad7224.png

It seems like Gotham is back to its old tricks...early on, have lots and lots of filler and drag things out until we get to the good stuff. This episode was no different. It really does feel like filler, building up to something we're not going to get to for a few more episodes still.

The Bruce and Selina scenes were great, though, and I love Selina's eyes at the end.

As for Bullock, he had a lot of great zingers and Donal Logue's "WTF" performance was really on point...but, he was just a passenger in this one, hardly a factor.

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Oh. So that’s Mother and Orphan. 

In retrospect, Ivy being The Witch makes the most sense. 

I hate that Bruce and Selina’s relationship is doomed by canon and that just makes me sad. 

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5 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

I hate that Bruce and Selina’s relationship is doomed by canon and that just makes me sad. 

But it's not doomed by canon. They are lovers and allies in as much, if not more, present-day comics and cartoons than they are enemies.

I think the producers/showrunners like the idea of writing a "tragic" relationship because it fits into the general grimdark tone of Gotham the TV show, not because they're obligated by comics continuity. 

Edited by ursula
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It was pretty obvious that the Witch was going to be Ivy but it was still a good reveal. 

I like the development of Bruce here. I liked them showing his strength and weakness even as Batman will be his faith that there is good in everyone. He didn't trust Ivy but she ended up helping Selina anyway. These characters' story was the most interesting of the episode.

Are they making Selina a cat or something because I don't like that nonsense? Or are they saying her inner self is a cat? I'm confused. Catwoman is not supposed to be supernatural or have cat powers or anything. She's supposed to be like Bruce - a human who is very good at fighting but she's also a cat burglar. Damn you Tim Burton!

I really hope they give Alfred something to do this season.

Wow they rescued those kids really easily didn't they? They literally just walked in and freed them.

Jim and his handgun always gets the shot but a baddie with a machine gun can't get one bullet in Jim!

What was the point of this Mother and boy team? And these kids and gangs. Are they showing up again or is this it? Was this pointless and can this show afford to waste time like this?

I'm guessing Barbara will be helping Jim out more and more?

Ed and his confusion was more interesting in this episode than the last. Is Ed trying to start a war?

Speaking of, am I supposed to remember these damn gang names? Because I've already forgotten them all.

Next episode looks good!

Edited by superloislane
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On 1/10/2019 at 10:36 PM, Lantern7 said:

I bet the park trespassers have never been to England, yet one of them has a bit of an English accent. "The legends say a witch stalks the forest. It matters not what faction or gang you belong to. You take one step too many, the Witch gobbles you up, she does!" "Earl. Dude. You were a plumber four months ago. Can you at least slow down your slide into Crazytown?" Also, more Warriors-style dress themes!

 

Bit of an accent? It felt like they just dropped out of a Charles Dickens' story between the accent and their outfits. They could have just saved money and edited in footage from the witch scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

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I was watching and thinking how utterly ridiculous it is that Jim is in a war zone wearing a perfectly pressed suit and his hair always impeccably combed. Then I realized -- that's his crazy costume. It makes as much sense as the gang get-ups, which is to say that it makes no sense. Jim is just as nuts as the rest of them, just on the side of good! If he was sane he'd be in jeans and/or body armor through all this.

Selena's been "Cat" since episode one, it did not surprise me at all that a magical "seed" (looked like raw shrimp to me, ew) made her already cat-like qualities more literal. But then comic book logic can get way weirder than this, so I guess I don't exactly have high standards for explanations of the bizarre.

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This episode was mostly filler. Guys, you only have 12 episodes. Why are you wasting time with filler? Especially when you decide to go with filler while we’ve had approx 30 seconds of Alfred screen time, no Lee at all, and Oswald was MIA this episode.  They established three plot points that will carry forward - Selina’s transformation, Barbara working with Jim, and Ed (or someone) trying to start shit with Oswald. And that took about five minutes to tell. When we had the extended scene between the adorable moppets and their captors, I was all, “Really? This is how we’re spending our time?”

While Ed’s adventures are mildly amusing, they are not all that different from what he was doing last season, which didn’t develop his character at all and largely felt like a waste of time. They need to wrap this up and get him in the Riddler track soon. The only thing mildly interesting was I liked his biker captive and I wondered why Ed installed a mirror over the toilet. Presumably so he can watch himself pee.

Bruce really needed to give Selina a heads-up about the possible side effects. Sure, she probably knows stuff from Ivy carries a level of danger at all times  and she probably would have eaten it no matter what, but Bruce really took the decision away from her when he did that. Not cool.

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Yeah, I'll go along with the majority that this episode wasn't as good as the first one but I still don't think it was bad. A little too much filler perhaps but they are continuing to move the story forward. We've probably seen the last of Ivy but I guess you never know. The key thing in this episode was the development of Selina (Cat) into Catwoman and setting up the eventual conflict between her and Bruce. The stuff with Jim and Harvey in the House of Horrors was largely unnecessary but at least it had the right air of creepiness to it. The petty gangs....yeah, not needed. They already established in 5.01 that these little roaming groups were around and were largely canon fodder. No need to keep harping on that fact. I imagine the main reason they were included was to show that Penguin's "bounty" on Jim is having an effect. The one big plus is that the show continues to look fantastic and the action sequences are extremely well done.

6/10

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Bruce really is super naive, isn't he?  "I'm totes positive Ivy will help and not kill these men, because it's not like she's never done that before!"  Dummy!

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I don't care about logic or sense in any plotline in this show; it's Gotham, baby.  This show just tickles my fancy...it's just so over the top.  I don't watch any other "comic book" series, so I just let this one amuse and confuse me.  Loved when Barbara came rolling up in her Big Wheel Greenhousemobile..I mean, what was that?!  Too funny!  And shallow observation: I LOVE Selina's hair.  So thick and curly and shiny, even after weeks...months...in a grimy hospital bed.

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On 1/12/2019 at 8:07 PM, Kostgard said:

I wondered why Ed installed a mirror over the toilet. Presumably so he can watch himself pee.

Bruce really needed to give Selina a heads-up about the possible side effects. 

Ed needs to be sure WHO is actually peeing....

Bruce would have needed to call the guy who does Otezla commercial voiceover to fit all the side effects into 15 seconds.....

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On 1/12/2019 at 5:20 PM, PinkRibbons said:

I was watching and thinking how utterly ridiculous it is that Jim is in a war zone wearing a perfectly pressed suit and his hair always impeccably combed. Then I realized -- that's his crazy costume. It makes as much sense as the gang get-ups, which is to say that it makes no sense. Jim is just as nuts as the rest of them, just on the side of good! If he was sane he'd be in jeans and/or body armor through all this.

Selena's been "Cat" since episode one, it did not surprise me at all that a magical "seed" (looked like raw shrimp to me, ew) made her already cat-like qualities more literal. But then comic book logic can get way weirder than this, so I guess I don't exactly have high standards for explanations of the bizarre.

Three months into No Man's Land and Jim knows where to find a dry cleaner that is still up and running. That was so silly.

On 1/14/2019 at 1:30 PM, jhlipton said:

Bruce really is super naive, isn't he?  "I'm totes positive Ivy will help and not kill these men, because it's not like she's never done that before!"  Dummy!

Yeah, Bruce just traded the lives of three innocent people for Selina walking again. That's on him, and it really doesn't do much for my opinion of him.

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14 hours ago, moonshine71 said:

Three months into No Man's Land and Jim knows where to find a dry cleaner that is still up and running. That was so silly.

Yeah, Bruce just traded the lives of three innocent people for Selina walking again. That's on him, and it really doesn't do much for my opinion of him.

Bruce just traded the lives of three innocent people for the possibility of Selina walking again (if Ivy wasn't lying).  But it's wrong from him to kill.   Riiiiiight....

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On 1/11/2019 at 4:04 PM, ursula said:

I will never understand the decisions behind ageing up Ivy. She would always be a kid in a woman's body so even if they wanted to make her "sexier", the creep factor would always remain. In the scene she had with Bruce, I didn't see anything that the new actress did that Claire Foley couldn't have done ten times better with the slightly-cuckoo, slightly-menacing edge she gave to early seasons Ivy. Sadly, this is just one of several mis-steps that this show made over the course of the seasons. 

It's funny because Ivy Pepper isn't even Poison Ivy's name in the comics, they could have easily just introduced Geha or List as Ivy's older sister or cousin to take on the 'seductress' Poison Ivy role the clearly wanted for the character and sidestepped all the problematic weirdness they brought on by magically turning her into an adult.

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4 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

It's funny because Ivy Pepper isn't even Poison Ivy's name in the comics, they could have easily just introduced Geha or List as Ivy's older sister or cousin to take on the 'seductress' Poison Ivy role the clearly wanted for the character and sidestepped all the problematic weirdness they brought on by magically turning her into an adult.

THIS. They dropped the ball on the chance to do more Version 0.0 of canon characters - an older sister for Ivy, a Harvey Dent Snr, etc. 

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2 hours ago, ursula said:

THIS. They dropped the ball on the chance to do more Version 0.0 of canon characters - an older sister for Ivy, a Harvey Dent Snr, etc. 

That reminds me, what happened to Dent? We haven't seen him for quite a while.

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1 hour ago, Gobi said:

That reminds me, what happened to Dent? We haven't seen him for quite a while.

Didn't he have a cameo in season 1, then disappear?

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Speaking of which, do we get to see Renee Montoya again?  

I thought this episode was slightly better than the premiere.  It felt like it had a more coherent story.  Still, a lot of it felt like running away from various threats like street gang leaders we've never seen before or that random Mother and Child duo.  Forget Batman, clearly James Gordon is the most amazing mortal fighter ever.   I did enjoy Harvey, though.

I'm a little disappointed that there is so much filler action.  I don't feel like there are enough character moments, and some (eg. Alfred) have nothing to do.  The ones that are used are not even entertaining to watch as they usually are (eg. Ed).  A lot of it was pretty predictable (eg. the men in the greenhouse all become cannon fodder but Ivy doesn't kill Bruce - why, because he said the plants around them looked like death?).

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4 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Speaking of which, do we get to see Renee Montoya again? 

In the cornfield, along with Crispus Allen.

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On 18/01/2019 at 9:23 AM, ursula said:

THIS. They dropped the ball on the chance to do more Version 0.0 of canon characters - an older sister for Ivy, a Harvey Dent Snr, etc. 

Wholeheartedly agree. I made the same suggestion way back in S2 or S3- the Peyton List/Maggie Geha characters could have easily been mentors for Ivy Pepper on her growth into Poison Ivy. We could even extend this to Selina's mother being Selina's mentor, in addition to Bruce's two mentors- Jim and Alfred.

I also believe Oswald could have been The Joker's mentor, and that Gotham could have centred around a battle between Jim and Oswald that Bruce and the Joker take over. We could have also had a great series where Bruce and Selina kick butt, though alluding to their eventual fates- Bruce breaks up with Selina because she embraces "the darkness" while Bruce wishes to fight it.

In any case, having mentors would have solved one of this show's early problems- they wanted to be a show where "anyone can die" but hamstrung themselves by having so many canon characters in key roles that you couldn't kill them off. By having mentors, you have important characters that can die off, perhaps leading to the point where the mentored eventually takes over.

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 2:28 AM, SimoneS said:

Eh, Gotham has so much potential, but misses the mark by being too out there and also missing the emotional beats to make the show work. Why did the people after Jim have to be so Mad Max? And why is Jim so stoic about the state of his relationship with Barbara? He used to love her. The writers are doing a much better job with the Bruce/Selina story, maybe because the actors are young so they have to reign it in somewhat.

I will never stop being uncomfortable about and creeped out how they aged a little girl into a sex pot type.

Ivy was damaged goods before they magically transformed her into a super voluptuous child/woman, I always think back to her 'No doctors' remark to Selina.

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 2:34 AM, HoodlumSheep said:

An alright episode i suppose. Harvey was just so done after being shot at with arrows, lol! 

Jim made it outta all that mess almost squeaky clean except for a few scratches. 

I like ed's new biker friend. I wonder if he's just a one-off or if he'll show up in the background of a few more eps.

Surprisingly, Ivy had completely slipped my mind when it came to the identity of the witch. I was thinking of lee or maybe a newbie.

The jim/harvey stuff felt more like an irrelevant side quest, though. I feel like only one or two tidbits of that entire plot line were important. Probably didn't need to take up a whole episode. 

Reminded me a little of Apocalypse Now or perhaps a subtle ref to another DC show? Interesting that whilst The Flash/Supergirl etc all have loads of crossovers Gotham resists that temptation. 

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 2:15 AM, WritinMan said:

"Well, you see, Doc, a crazy woman dug up this gross-looking thing--had some dirt and blood on it--and Selina ate it."

TIG! And it's not as though there was any other way to help her?

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 2:35 AM, Sakura12 said:

He's a doctor in Gotham, that's probably down on the bottom of the list of crazy he's probably dealt with. 

So we are going with Batman returns Catwoman where she has actual cat powers. It make since for it be Ivy of the changing faces that helps her since Selina helped her when they were both kids. I"m not surprised that Gotham has a bunch of crazies roaming around. You gotta be crazy to continue to live in that city. I love that Gotham is so extra, that's what makes it different than the other hero shows. Just like Legends of tomorrow their motto has to be why the f not. So having a mask wearing drug addict gang vs a painted skull mask gang is exactly what Gotham is.  Same with Gordon always surviving whether he gets shot a couple of times or not. Gotham probably needs a cop that has his own  magic powers even if it is just surviving everything. 

I don't think Batman Returns Catwoman had cat powers, Selina was just a gymnast (we see the trophies in her apartment). 

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:36 AM, Lantern7 said:

I like the implication of this final season . .. that all most people need a little time to devolve into anarchy. And Gothamites? They go whole hog with it after three months. I bet the park trespassers have never been to England, yet one of them has a bit of an English accent. "The legends say a witch stalks the forest. It matters not what faction or gang you belong to. You take one step too many, the Witch gobbles you up, she does!" "Earl. Dude. You were a plumber four months ago. Can you at least slow down your slide into Crazytown?" Also, more Warriors-style dress themes!

Wait . . . so seemingly getting revived by cats the way Michelle Pfeiffer and Halle Berry did in their movies doesn't turn Selina into Catwoman . . . . but a magic herb from Ivy does? Hey, why not? At least Bruce hesitated before giving it to Selina, even after her "The little Ivy Pepper I know is somewhere deep inside that confused woman whom men would like to bone" speech.

Seriously thinking Harvey will up and quit before season's end . ..  or I would if I hadn't seen the flash-forward last week. If he were to go to the river and try to swim to the mainland, would anyone blame him? Jim goes into the spooky building and meets a kid. Harvey goes elsewhere and discovers piles of jewelry. And teeth. And fingers. And a totally psycho "Mother" bitch. While I wouldn't call Jim's life "charmed," he does have slightly less mental scarring, and he looked badass shooting the gang leaders. Credit to Barbara and her crew ("Barbaramazons"?) for softening the gangs up. Looks like she'll be working with Jim. Should be interesting.

Kid slaves? Overkill. Reminds me of "The Underdwellers," which I consider the worst B:TAS episode.

Ed/Riddler drama is still a bit annoying, though not as contrived as Caitlin/Killer Frost over on The Flash. I like the idea that the same burly dude had to get worked over twice by the same guy for information. Ed-as-Riddler posing? Also hilarious.

Yeah, where did THAT guy come from? Because angry villagers in Horror films tend to be English peasants? 

Now, do we suspect there is some kind of link between Ben and Glory?

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 6:03 PM, jayded said:

I'm 45 years old, and it's been a LONG time since I've been this captivated about a TV show.  The costumes, settings, and cinematography are all right up my ally. Plot and story has room for improvement, but most drama/adventure shows struggle with great story from time to time. 

That said, I love the overall plot (city is stranded...gangs taking over).  I also love some of the subplots (the birth of the true Sirens, Bad ass Joker, Wayne's continued progression into the bat).

I'm completely disappointed in Catwoman's birth.  What does a magical tree seed have to do with cats?  Did a bunch of cats piss on it transferring their genetics, lol? Very weak.  Very disappointed that Ivy is being depicted as a psychopath killer. She was always a woman who kills for a cause...not for the sake of killing.  They messed up Ivy from day 1 on this show if you ask me.  Most of the other subplots are just slow story building, imo.  They don't add anything right now, but I'm sure stuff like Riddler's personality meld will play a bigger part later.   

I'm 45 and feel exactly the same way, it is the one modern show which truly captures my attention. 

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:04 PM, ursula said:

I will never understand the decisions behind ageing up Ivy. She would always be a kid in a woman's body so even if they wanted to make her "sexier", the creep factor would always remain. In the scene she had with Bruce, I didn't see anything that the new actress did that Claire Foley couldn't have done ten times better with the slightly-cuckoo, slightly-menacing edge she gave to early seasons Ivy. Sadly, this is just one of several mis-steps that this show made over the course of the seasons. 

I figured they set out to stick with Clare but then decided they needed more sex appeal. Clare grew up to be a beautiful young woman;

image.png.e49c8d131e502dd9e46e395b59d8792c.png

but not really my idea of Ivy?

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On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 3:43 PM, moonshine71 said:

Bit of an accent? It felt like they just dropped out of a Charles Dickens' story between the accent and their outfits. They could have just saved money and edited in footage from the witch scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Or Dick Van Dyke?

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On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 10:20 PM, PinkRibbons said:

I was watching and thinking how utterly ridiculous it is that Jim is in a war zone wearing a perfectly pressed suit and his hair always impeccably combed. Then I realized -- that's his crazy costume. It makes as much sense as the gang get-ups, which is to say that it makes no sense. Jim is just as nuts as the rest of them, just on the side of good! If he was sane he'd be in jeans and/or body armor through all this.

Selena's been "Cat" since episode one, it did not surprise me at all that a magical "seed" (looked like raw shrimp to me, ew) made her already cat-like qualities more literal. But then comic book logic can get way weirder than this, so I guess I don't exactly have high standards for explanations of the bizarre.

He's setting an example, the whole idea is that the GCPD prove that civilization still exists, as its' leader he needs to look the part. 

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