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S09.E08: Evolution

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Reminder: This thread is for discussion of the episode.   DO NOT talk about the comics or other spoilers here.   If it hasn't been onscreen yet, it's a spoiler.  That includes news about cast comings and goings or how a story plays out in the comics.  Discussion of that can be found in the Spoilers and Speculation thread.

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1 minute ago, CletusMusashi said:

I want to see a whole episode of these new villains, just wandering around surrounded by regular zombies, whispering things like "Hey... I found some ravioli... do you have... the... can opener..." "I think.... Gary... has it..." "Where... is.. Gary?" "I think he's... taking... a dump... behind that tool shed..."

I can make...prosciutto if you can shoot a hog.  Damn Gary, what did you eat....who farted...... did you remember to turn the oven off....

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So I guess Rick would be Fred, because he's the leader that nobody voted for who composes intricate plans that never work, and his only real contribution to this mystery has been wandering off with a redhead. Although Negan might still have the ascot.

Daryl and Doggy Dixon are Shaggy and Scooby. Of course.

And I suppoe Michonne is Velma, because she knows how to read clues when she can see them, but half the time she's blind, either blinded by love of Rick or blinded by that stupid wig that she insists on wearing sideways.

Henry is Scrappy Doo, and I believe Kirkman himself is Scooby Dumb.

Edited by CletusMusashi
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At first, when Negan broke walked out of the jail, I hoped he'd run into the herd and (yay!) end of his story. Now I'm afraid he'll run into the herd, find out that they can talk, and then end up joining them, just non-stop fucking whispering except now with added rotting skin. And he'll probably find another leather jacket.

There were things that I liked. Carol and Michonne meeting up. I want to know everything that went down with Hilltop, Kingdom, and Alexandria, and I want to know it now! I liked the cemetery set piece. I liked Daryl's bag o' tricks for distracting walkers. Although not so much anymore, Daryl, sorry. I liked Gabe finally telling Negan off. I think I like Addie, but maybe she just won out in comparison to the two asshole boys whose names I can't bother to remember.

If they had to add some Gen Z types, they could have actually made it interesting by building on the fact that those three kids had been living at Hilltop for over half their lives. That's what the world has been to reduced to for them. Sure, tell me more about that in some way other than the nonsense we got stuck with tonight, but also don't take up 15 minutes of the mid-season finale on kids we've never met before!

I liked that Michonne and Magna and Miko rode to the rescue. I can get with that trio kicking ass on my screen on a weekly basis, thank you. I just plain like that Michonne is getting more screen time.

Please stop making me worry about Dog.

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Oh noes.  Negan has busted out.  Who saw that coming?

i find it disgusting that father pee, a man of the cloth and an established leader of the community has to clean his shit.  Surely there is a less important teen who can be tasked with that?  What the hell was he doing with that Asian bell thing? 

Jesus Is dead, I am sad, but I can’t be with a guy with better hair than me so I accept it.

this was a creepy episode.   Could have wasted less time with the teen drama.  

Blah blah crab cakes, the communities are fighting.  Michonne needs to do a risk analysis assessment with an understanding of the law of large numbers.  

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36 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

We get a boring as hell prison drama with Negan, a Very Special Episode of some 80s teen show with Henry and the Bad Influence teens, tons of spooky fog and dark castles like we`re on the Moors trying to escape a werewolf or Jack the Ripper or something, and a Scobby Doo ending! Has even the show itself finally gotten bored, and decided to start trying totally new shows?

GOD, yes! I was so confused and thought I'd accidentally changed channels to Svengoolie and was half-expecting Lon Chaney's Wolfman, or Dracula or a pack of Rottweilers to appear out of the fog.

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I'd forgotten that this was a finale because they spent so much time on fucking FILLER!! Did we really need to hear about what came out of Negan's ass?   I could care less about Jesus but I don't understand why he has to die and those sniveling teenyboppers are allowed to live.  How can a bunch of kids, growing up in the zombie apocalypse be so SOFT!  This episode could have actually been good if they'd spent more time on WTF went down between Michonne and just about everyone else.

 

Edited to add:  I absolutely agree @Mu Shu.  It was disgusting to see a priest have to carry Negan's slop-jar. 

Edited by mightysparrow
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5 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

i find it disgusting that father pee, a man of the cloth and an established leader of the community has to clean his shit.  

Thank god I missed that part, but shouldn't Michonne be doing it? She's the one who carries on protecting him from harm as per the Legacy and the Word of Ricky G. It's like when kids get pets and their parents tell them they have clean up after them. She just wants to do the fun things, like making him sammiches.

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I just take it for granted that if Dog was wearing a poodle sweater it would be red. Horses seem to do okay as long as Rick's not in charge, but dogs and tigers have not fared well on this show.

Now I'm getting worried about Gary. What if he gets killed and turns out to be the Whisperer equivalent of Neil or Ken? The whole second half of the season could be one long rasping zombie-drag funeral.

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So they are trying to appeal to a younger demographic by lecturing  them on the evils of alcohol??  During an apocalypse??

Writers if you were sober while writing this episode, and that's a big if, it is not helping your creative process at all.   

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Honestly, the ending of this episode was really good, even if I am super pissed that Jesus is dead. All the people on this show I want dead, and they kill one of the characters I still like? What did I do to deserve this, show?! But the ending really was exciting and atmospheric (even if it came off pretty weird on this show) and the people dressed as Walkers is suitably creepy, and made me actually interested in a new villain on this show, and its been ages since I was actually interested in a villain in TWD! 

But to get to that, we had endless, horrible, boring as sin PADDING. We have Michonne and Hilltop being pissed at each other for reasons no one knows yet, we have dull as dirt Henry meeting some bad influence friends and drinking and having a bizarre anti drinking PSA in the middle of the episode, and Negan rambling on for ever and ever. Because, oh yeah, I am just SO invested in Negan and his never ending dick measuring contest with everything he sees. And now he got lose? So maybe he can bore a whole new group of people. 

Poor Aaron. The poor guy just cannot catch a freaking break. 

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7 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Horses seem to do okay as long as Rick's not in charge

I swear I heard whinnys of relief when Rick's new girlfriend spirited him off.

13 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

It was disgusting to see a priest have to carry Negan's slop-jar. 

I don't know. FP isn't exactly a paragon of virtue. He's not a priest either, considering how many women he's boinked, which brings me to this: Why is no one calling him a slut and whore, for having out-of-wedlock sex with at least 3 women (we know of)?  His religion much preclude such carrying on. Men can do as much screwing as they like on this show and be seen as studs, but women are torn to shreds for doing far less and their punishment is death if they haven't made any eternal vows of love and fidelity. Negan is the biggest ol' whore around and brags about it. I assume Robert"How I wish that were me" Kirkman sees it this way. Maybe Gimp too.

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15 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

I swear I heard whinnys of relief when Rick's new girlfriend spirited him off.

I don't know. FP isn't exactly a paragon of virtue. He's not a priest either, considering how many women he's boinked, which brings me to this: Why is no one calling him a slut and whore, for having out-of-wedlock sex with at least 3 women (we know of)?  His religion much preclude such carrying on. Men can do as much screwing as they like on this show and be seen as studs, but women are torn to shreds for doing far less and their punishment is death if they haven't made any eternal vows of love and fidelity. Negan is the biggest ol' whore around and brags about it. I assume Robert"How I wish that were me" Kirkman sees it this way. Maybe Gimp too.

Father Gabriel is Anglican, so he's allowed to have sex.  

I agree with you about the show's prehistoric ideas about female sexuality.  Men are allowed to move on the second his woman is dead.  But women have to strap on a chastity belt if their man dies.  Michonne is spending a lot of time with Siddique and they make a gorgeous couple; Siddique is a definite step up from weaselly old Rick.  Why can't Michonne move on?  Of course, she'll have to wait until Siddique makes the first move because in the ZA, only SLUTS do that!

Edited by mightysparrow
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4 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Father Gabriel is Anglican, so he's allowed to have sex. 

I know little about religion but I'm pretty sure even Anglican clergy is not supposed to engage in all this promiscuity,but he's a man, so it's all good, on this show anyway. He may not know how to close a door or a gate, but we know he must be good at one thing at least.

4 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Why can't Michonne move on?  Of course, she'll have to wait until Siddique makes the first move because in the ZA, only SLUTS do that!

For the same reason I assume Maggie didn't or couldn't. They must remain chaste and faithful to the memory of their fallen True Loves or face death.

6 minutes ago, mightysparrow said:

Siddique is a definite step up from weaselly old Rick.

Hahaha!!

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Despite my absolute devastation over the death of Jesus that was one hell of a reveal for that whisperer to dodge Jesus and grab him from behind.... what sort of a terrifying mind bend would that be if you had spent the apocalypse disposing if fairly predictable walkers.... 

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21 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

"The Walkers send their regards" *stab* 

Seriously, I couldn't make out what he said, and in my head that's how I filled in the blank :) And honestly, that was a hell of a twist. I'd read the spoilers, so I knew that Jesus was going to die, but I didn't know he was going to die like that. Well done, show!

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When they return next year, I hope we don't see a long, boring montage of Negan looking all over for Lucille. 

Edited by mxc90
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So Jesus is killed and Negan goes free?  There's no justice in the zombie apocalypse.

I wonder what happened to cause the rift between Alexadria, Hilltop and the Kingdom?

Teens are even more annoying than precocious kids.

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I was actually looking forward to this episode (which hasn’t always been the case for a long time with this show,I just keep watching because in some weird way I want to see how it eventually ends,if it ever does ) but once it was revealed that the Walkers seem to be yet another group,all my interests faded. I guess they will end up with yet another “War” where many will die but yet a lot of the main people some how survive..... the Teenage scene was a huge waste of time. 

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Losing Jesus and Rick and trading them for the people on the cart is a net win for me.  Not that the people on the cart are so great...  it screams "look, more diversity" on the surface yet all they've done is added another Eugene type, (Luke) OG Michonne type (Magna), and even a medicated Jadis type disguised as a British Japanese woman (Yumiko).  The sign language couple is cool (Gage and Connie)... but I'm hoping they flesh out the characters soon so it doesn't feel so much like Star Trek/United Colors of Benetton stunt casting and more like an organic group of people who found each other.

(I get that the show has always done this...  I'm a minority myself, so I appreciate the show runners efforts... but again... it felt too much like types rather than characters.)

All this rambling aside... at least they aren't as dull as Rick's and Jesus's sanctimonious characters who made me feel like I was listening to reincarnated versions of Dale front and center every week.  Ezekiel and Maggie too... boring boring boring.

I like the addition of older Judith... don't like older Henry.  If he's going to be a villain type... then maybe... but he feels like a Joffrey/Draco Malfoy type of actor rather than a sweet kid like his brother.

Overall, I really enjoy the time jump... the evolution of the walkers... and I like Siddiq's character too.

I have actual hope for the show now, compared to the desolation I felt watching Season 8 and Fear the Walking Dead.

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If you told me 5 years ago that I would be bored to tears/annoyed beyond reason with a character played by JDM, I would have slapped you.  Yet, here we are with me not GAF about Negan and annoyed that he lives while a significantly more interesting character like Jesus is dead.  Sigh.

I thoroughly enjoyed last week episode, and am annoyed that they are injecting so much filler in the midseason finale this week.  Don't care about new teens.  Interesting that Enid is with the one nice Savior guy now, but meh.  Really, I'm still mostly here for the OGs:  Michonne's mysterious convo with Carol drew me in.  I want to know more about that. 

RIP, Jesus.  I loved watching him fight (his style was the coolest out of anyone), appreciated his inherent goodness, and appreciate what Tom Payne brought to the role. 

I will say I was intrigued by the whole scary, spooky thing at the cemetery, and The Whisperers scared the heck out of me. When the "walker" dodged Jesus, I squeaked a little!

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I'm bummed Jesus is dead only because I've liked Tom Payne since I saw him in The Physician (plus his hair was a lot prettier then) a few years ago, but on the other hand, I'm glad he now can go do other projects that will hopefully not be as boring. Also, I now have one less reason to continue watching this shitshow. Or shit show. I hate potentially quitting on a show I've dedicated too many years of my life to before it's completely over, but it's like this show is begging people to stop watching it. Blergh.

 

Screen Shot 2018-11-25 at 11.20.54 PM.png

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5 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

So I guess Rick would be Fred, because he's the leader that nobody voted for who composes intricate plans that never work, and his only real contribution to this mystery has been wandering off with a redhead. Although Negan might still have the ascot.

Daryl and Doggy Dixon are Shaggy and Scooby. Of course.

And I suppoe Michonne is Velma, because she knows how to read clues when she can see them, but half the time she's blind, either blinded by love of Rick or blinded by that stupid wig that she insists on wearing sideways.

Henry is Scrappy Doo, and I believe Kirkman himself is Scooby Dumb.

I enjoyed the episode but this is still awesome, LOL!

I hate that they only dropped more breadcrumbs about the rift between the communities and we're still clueless, but at least it's something to look forward to. The Henry story line could have been cut back a bit but I get why it was there; it wasn't an anti-drinking PSA, it was an anti being a dumbass PSA and it showed him to be more mature and responsible than those other two idiots. At least he's getting some real development and will probably hook up with Addy instead of moping and pining after Enid.

Hate on me if you must but, as always, I loved the Negan stuff. JDM is just too damn good and fun to watch! When Gabriel told him to STFU, I thought "Damn, The board is going to love that!" - I'm a bit surprised it hasn't been mentioned more. I had to rewind it to figure out how he knew the door was unlocked and I cracked up at the little smirk on his face as he tossed the tennis ball back over his shoulder. Now I'm wondering if it was an accident or if Gabe did it on purpose as some kind of test or something...I hope not, that would be too many threads.

Everything with the whisperers was intense and unnerving. They've really managed to bring back the creep factor this year; hopefully they can keep it up. Jesus/Tom got a raw deal, not nearly enough character development before killing him off, I don't think...certainly not enough screen time, at least, but damn if it didn't pack an unexpected punch! Solid Mid Season Finale, can't wait for it to come back.

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2 hours ago, Yemayah said:

but I watched the repeat more carefully and there was another man in the room who appeared to lock the cell door behind Father Gabriel.

Unfortunately, no.  That was a guard who unlocked Negan's handcuffs after FPP cleaned up his (literal) crap.  

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2 hours ago, Yemayah said:

I  was multitasking and missed it the first time, but I watched the repeat more carefully and there was another man in the room who appeared to lock the cell door behind Father Gabriel. Maybe this person only pretended to lock the cell. But if he did indeed lock the door, then who left it open?  Inquiring minds want to know (not!).  When will Negan be done away with on this show? 

No, Other Guy wasn’t locking the cell door - he was UNlocking Negan’s handcuffs.  Apparently before his demise Rick had educated the ASZhats on the eminently sensible notion of handcuffing a prisoner through the bars of their cell BEFORE the cell door was unsecured - thus preventing the prisoner from overpowering whoever was entering the cell (for housekeeping duties or whatever) and effecting an escape.  

In which case Other Guy bears at least as much (if not more) responsibility for Negan’s escape as FPP, for not ensuring the cell door was locked before taking the cuffs off Negan.

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Brought over from the Live thread:
 

Quote

 

AngelaHunter:

Another thing: It made me a little queasy watching Carol blubber and sob over that little shit, Henry, as though she were sending him marching off to war, instead of to goof off and screw around while someone else takes "good care" of him. Carol, you turned your baby boy into an insufferable entitled millennial brat. Good job.

 

 

Yes. Thisis an example of the rotten writing and direction on this show now. The emotions dont fit the scene, and the scene doesnt fir the world, anymore.  Last week we had a passage were Lets Get Physical lady with the headband went on about a dead guy from their group who would piss off Trogoldyte Lady with the highlights by wearing a certain shirt. Because it was so fugly, that it gave Trog a "migraine."  That is watercolor talk amongst the lamest of your coworkers. That doesnt fit this world, where those people were on the run , living on their wits in the ZA. They shouldnt even have time to change their clothes, et alone the fucking energy to bitch about how ugly a shirt is. The fuck...?? In that world, who woud have the thought to even bitch about a shirt??

And whoever wrote that (TPTB by committee) sat there and actually thought  that was funny and would endear anyone to these new people.  And it's just more  and more of this; piled on top of one another to make this shitheap of a show, npw.

The plot with the teenagers? Putting Henry with even more disgusting children, so we are supposed to like Henry by comparison. The manipulation says everything you need to know about how these money grubbing hacks think about us, as their audience. They even put in a nerd girl MaryfuckinSue in there for us to all identify with, as if their audience was all 1) nerds, and 2) children.  Of course they want children to watch this show! They have no compass to taste or intelligent writing ; dialogue and feelings and thoughts of adults, in a realistic world, full of character's supposed life experience.

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7 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

So I guess Rick would be Fred, because he's the leader that nobody voted for who composes intricate plans that never work, and his only real contribution to this mystery has been wandering off with a redhead. Although Negan might still have the ascot.

Daryl and Doggy Dixon are Shaggy and Scooby. Of course.

And I suppoe Michonne is Velma, because she knows how to read clues when she can see them, but half the time she's blind, either blinded by love of Rick or blinded by that stupid wig that she insists on wearing sideways.

Henry is Scrappy Doo, and I believe Kirkman himself is Scooby Dumb.

 

Pretty  good, except Rick's gone for good. I hope Lincoln inked a deal to get his money because I dont believe the movies will get made. Or they will, and they will be just as shitty and nonsensical as this swamp of shit the show is now.  How embarrassing would that be for Lincoln.  Might actually be a career killer, if everyoner is angry enough, and I bet he knows it.

Freddy would have to be Father Brady AAron. Because all he is , is a boring voice. He never gets any shit done. He's just bland af.

 

I hate everyone. The only way to save this show is to have a final episode in the POVof the dog, then  have him methodically take out the whole cast. One by one, or all at once; either way. Just let the dog get it done.

Edited by Butless
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7 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I know little about religion but I'm pretty sure even Anglican clergy is not supposed to engage in all this promiscuity,but he's a man, so it's all good, on this show anyway. He may not know how to close a door or a gate, but we know he must be good at one thing at least.

For the same reason I assume Maggie didn't or couldn't. They must remain chaste and faithful to the memory of their fallen True Loves or face death.

Hahaha!!

I’m not sure in this situation that I would consider father pee promiscuous.  But the point is, he’s too high up the food chain to have to be cleaning shit.  That should be done by some kid, or someone being punished such as the town drunk or whatever.  And he apparently has to do hypnosis or some shit.  Hypnotists don’t have to clean.  

I agree the show has poor interpretations of women, but I never thought Rosita was presented as a slut.  She’s tried to get with one man after Abe, and now father pee.

hes waited six years since Jadis I guess.  

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I chose to believe Jesus is alive - I have no idea what Payne said on Talking Dead yet which makes it easier to maintain the illusion but..........They do call him Jesus after all, the newbies even had the discussion about his name in a stable, and Aaron needs a win so why not "resurrect" him.  Plus we're faced with the very real yet horrible possibility that if he were dead Tara would take over leadership of Hilltop increasing her screen time and honestly I'd rather hear Neegan talk about paint drying for an hour then see more of Tara.  So until the show comes back I'm going to maintain my little fantasy and hope for a fake out even if there's something like a 0.0001% chance of it.

I can buy that the teens sneak off to party and go through a little rebellious period, the execution of it was pretty clunky though - Where did they get the power for the music and those lights (a whole chandelier!)?  And how far away from Hilltop were they that the pounding from the bass wasn't heard there and didn't attract any walkers either?  Around here I can hear a car's bass on the main road that's over two blocks away and it's not exactly dead silent insects only here like it would (or should) be there.   Daryl's alarm clock attracts a herd of over 100 who are making noises themselves but that thumping doesn't bring a few strays every time the kids are out there?

The rest was mostly filler and set up for both the back half of the season and filling in more of the background of the time jump although there were some really good moments mostly around Daryl, Jesus, Aaron and the cat/mouse walkers chase.  The fight in the foggy, creepy graveyard was really good though.

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9 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Thank god I missed that part, but shouldn't Michonne be doing it? She's the one who carries on protecting him from harm as per the Legacy and the Word of Ricky G. It's like when kids get pets and their parents tell them they have clean up after them. She just wants to do the fun things, like making him sammiches.

I wonder if they sat around right after they locked up Negan and delegated duties: Okay you feed him, you wash his sheets, you clean his ass, you oil his bat, etc. Seriously, they had to have a talk like that. Gabe alluded to it. To me, that would be more interesting to watch than watching the teenagers go out drinking. Gee, there’s a first — kids drinking. And it’s not even the first time in the ZA. They did it — and better — on FTWD.

Edited by JackONeill
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9 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

GOD, yes! I was so confused and thought I'd accidentally changed channels to Svengoolie and was half-expecting Lon Chaney's Wolfman, or Dracula or a pack of Rottweilers to appear out of the fog.

A MeTV fan?

I wanted the three dudes and the dog to stay together for along time out on the road.  Daryl, Jesus, Aaron, and the dog.  A missed opportunity by TPTB.  i will miss Jesus.  Definitely an underutilized character.

As for the three teenagers, the girl has red shirt written all over her.  The two douchebags?   I was hoping the walker would bite the dick off of the kid that was peeing on him. 

Edited by icemiser69
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8 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I know little about religion but I'm pretty sure even Anglican clergy is not supposed to engage in all this promiscuity,but he's a man, so it's all good, on this show anyway. He may not know how to close a door or a gate, but we know he must be good at one thing at least.

I wouldn't be shocked if the jail cell door was left unlocked on purpose.

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6 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

I thoroughly enjoyed last week episode, and am annoyed that they are injecting so much filler in the midseason finale this week.  Don't care about new teens.  Interesting that Enid is with the one nice Savior guy now, but meh.

The age difference between those two gives me the creeps. 

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7 hours ago, Daltrey said:

Everything with the whisperers was intense and unnerving. They've really managed to bring back the creep factor this year; hopefully they can keep it up. Jesus/Tom got a raw deal, not nearly enough character development before killing him off, I don't think...certainly not enough screen time, at least, but damn if it didn't pack an unexpected punch! Solid Mid Season Finale, can't wait for it to come back.

I am just trying to imagine this show if they had kept Tom Payne and Zach McGowan, and instead, dumped some of the dead weight.  it would have been so much better.

Edited by icemiser69
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