Carole Radziwill: She's a Real Princess!

[Teri313]

I've been collecting obituaries for over 30 years, so naturally I had to go see what you guys are talking about. All I can say is, wow. And that's not exactly an obit, even though they file it that way on the website. Not a normal obit anyway. Pretty awful. Most obituaries celebrate a person, or at the very least, make it about them!  Anyway, I'm going to post it.  Sorry, it's long.  I hope I don't break PreviouslyTV.com. Here it is:

Lee Radziwill, Ex-Princess and Sister of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, Dies at 85

Lee Radziwill, the free-spirited former princess who shared the qualities of wealth, social status and ambition with her older sister, Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, but who struggled as an actor, decorator and writer to share her sister’s aura of success, died on Friday at her home in Manhattan. She was 85.

Her daughter, Anna Christina Radziwill, confirmed the death, citing natural causes.

It cannot have been easy living in the shadow of one of the world’s most famous women, the wife of President John F. Kennedy, and Mrs. Radziwill was hardly immune to competitive instincts. Jackie Kennedy had helped create the mystique of the thousand days of Camelot — a woman who had made her new home a place of elegance and culture, who had brought babies into the White House for the first time in the 20th century.

Mrs. Radziwill, the wife of a Polish émigré nobleman, Prince Stanislas Radziwill, was an international socialite and fashion icon who for years was on lists of the world’s best-dressed women. Like Jackie, she had cultivated passions for painting, music, dance and poetry. She made several attempts for professional recognition, but achieved only pale reflections of the spotlight on her sister.

For years — especially before and during Mrs. Kennedy’s time as first lady — Mrs. Radziwill had been close to her sister, sharing holidays and family gatherings; attending state functions; visiting the White House; hosting the Kennedys at the Radziwill townhouse in London; and, notably, taking a monthlong 1962 vacation with Jackie in Italy, India and Pakistan.

Cementing family ties, the Kennedys had named their firstborn child Caroline, after Caroline Lee, who had always been known by her middle name. Mr. Kennedy had been godfather to the Radziwills’ daughter, Anna Christina.

It all started to change after the president’s assassination in 1963.

Rushing to Washington from her home in London, Mrs. Radziwill brought sensitivity and emotional support to the crisis at hand. In the ensuing days, with the nation watching, she was a visible support for the widow in weeds, escorting her husband’s body to the Capitol to lie in state; during the funeral at the Cathedral of St. Matthew the Apostle, and at burial ceremonies at Arlington National Cemetery.

Mrs. Radziwill kept her composure until Air Force One, passing overhead, dipped a wing in salute. Then she wept.

Behind the scenes, she pinned a note to Jackie’s pillow, expressing love and admiration for her courage. And she helped Jackie get through the last terrible day, leaving the White House with her children and moving to the diplomat W. Averell Harriman’s Georgetown house, which had been made available for Jackie and the children.

After the president’s death, Mrs. Radziwill helped Mrs. Kennedy resettle in New York, a few blocks up Fifth Avenue from an apartment Mrs. Radziwill had just bought.

In the small world of celebrities, it is hardly surprising that Mrs. Kennedy’s future husband, Aristotle Onassis, the Greek shipping magnate, had been a close friend of the Radziwills’. They had hosted dinner parties in London for him, and had joined him on cruises aboard his yacht, the Christina. Indeed, tabloids had long romantically linked Mrs. Radziwill and Mr. Onassis, a notorious womanizer.

In a brief telephone interview for this obituary, Mrs. Radziwill scoffed at the notion that she had had an affair with Mr. Onassis, and insisted that she had “no regrets, none at all,” about her relationship with her sister, which was widely reported to have been strained after Mrs. Kennedy married Mr. Onassis.

In August 1963, after Mrs. Kennedy gave birth prematurely to a third child, Patrick, who died after a day, Mrs. Radziwill called her, relaying an invitation from Mr. Onassis to recuperate on his yacht. A grieving Mrs. Kennedy, wanting privacy, accepted the invitation and, accompanied by the Radziwills, joined Mr. Onassis for an extended cruise in the Aegean Sea.

 “The story of Jackie’s effect on Ari during that cruise has been told many times,” Diana DuBois wrote in “In Her Sister’s Shadow: An Intimate Biography of Lee Radziwill” (1995). “Lee would tell her intimates later that she was only trying to do something nice for her sister when she brought her along on the Christina, and that Jackie co-opted Onassis on that cruise.”

Echoing news accounts of the era, the book added: “Jackie’s expropriation of Onassis drove a deep wedge between the two women, which, when coupled with a parallel development between Jackie and Robert Kennedy in the aftermath of the assassination, was the beginning of a profound change in their relationship, one that would last.”

In the months after the assassination, according to historians and news reports of the day, Robert Kennedy provided deep emotional support in a time of psychic trauma for Jackie, and the fact that the two were frequently seen together in absorbed conversation gave rise inevitably to rumors that their relationship was something closer than the kindness and comforting of an in-law. But nothing more substantive was ever demonstrated.

Five years after the president’s assassination, in a made-for-tabloids event, Mrs. Kennedy and Mr. Onassis were married, with a prenuptial agreement that guaranteed her millions. Mrs. Radziwill attended the wedding on Skorpios, Mr. Onassis’ private island.

As the sisters drifted apart, Mrs. Radziwill in the 1960s made new, creative friends, including the dancers Rudolf Nureyev and Margot Fonteyn, the architect and decorator Renzo Mongiardino, the stage and costume designer Cecil Beaton, and the writer Truman Capote.

In 1967, encouraged by her friends, Mrs. Radziwill began an acting career. She studied with teachers from the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art. Mr. Capote advised her to make her debut as Tracy Lord, the spoiled, spirited socialite in Philip Barry’s comedy “The Philadelphia Story.” It had been Katharine Hepburn’s role on Broadway and in a Hollywood film.

The revival was staged in Chicago. Publicity hailed the star as Jackie Kennedy’s princess sister. The opening was a media circus. The reviews were devastating. “A new star is not born,” The Chicago Tribune crowed. Other critics called her performance wooden and amateurish. She was hurt, but audiences were not put off, and she gamely finished a four-week run.

Mr. Capote then urged David Susskind, the producer, to put his protégé in a television play. A remake of “Laura,” the classic 1944 Otto Preminger film, was chosen, with Mrs. Radziwill again in a role made unforgettable by another star, Gene Tierney. Mr. Capote helped write the script. It aired nationally on ABC in January 1968.

The reviews were not kind. “A stunning clotheshorse upon whom no discernible Thespian demands were made,” wrote Jack Gould, the television critic for The New York Times. Variety intoned: “She is just not an actress.” Mrs. Radziwill returned to London, her acting career over.

The Radziwill-Capote friendship ended soon after. They fell out when she refused to testify for Mr. Capote in a libel suit brought by Gore Vidal over a Capote assertion, citing her as his source, that Mr. Vidal had been ejected drunk from the Kennedy White House. Mr. Vidal said he had merely been escorted to his hotel by friends after antagonizing Attorney General Robert Kennedy. Mr. Vidal won the suit and an apology.

In 1976, Mrs. Radziwill founded an interior design firm. She attracted a few corporate and wealthy private clients and drew favorable publicity, including a feature spread in Architectural Digest. But her designing career was brief.

Her writing ambitions fared no better. She was contracted to write a memoir in the early 1970s and another in the late ’90s, but neither book was finished. In 2001, she published “Happy Times,” a slim picture book with reminiscences on the Bouvier sisters’ carefree early years.

Caroline Lee Bouvier was born in Manhattan on March 3, 1933, to John Vernou Bouvier III and the former Janet Norton Lee. Her mother was socially prominent and her father, a Wall Street broker called Black Jack, traced his lineage to French soldiers who fought in the Revolutionary War.

The parents were divorced in 1940, and Mrs. Bouvier married Hugh D. Auchincloss Jr., a Standard Oil heir, who had three children by previous marriages and two, Janet and Jamie, in his marriage to Mrs. Bouvier.

Lee grew up in the shade of her sister, who was nearly four years older and was her father’s favorite and an accomplished equestrian. They lived in commodious Manhattan apartments and at estates on Long Island and in McLean, Va., and Newport, R.I., where they learned to sail on Narragansett Bay.

Lee attended the Potomac School in Washington and Miss Porter’s School in Farmington, Conn. Her teachers at Miss Porter’s found her bright and imaginative, but her grades were average, whereas her sister was remembered as a star. Lee enrolled at Sarah Lawrence College, but left in her sophomore year to study art in Italy.

She joined Harper’s Bazaar in 1950 as an assistant to the legendary editor Diana Vreeland. She held the job briefly, but it sparked her lifelong interest in fashion.

In 1951, Lee and Jacqueline Bouvier toured London, Paris, Rome, Florence, Venice and Madrid. Their reminiscences were collected in “One Special Summer” (1974).

In 1953, Lee married Michael Temple Canfield, the adopted son of Cass Canfield, chairman of the publisher Harper & Brothers. They lived in London, where Mr. Canfield was private secretary to Winthrop Aldrich, the United States ambassador to the Court of St. James’s. They had no children and were divorced in 1958. The marriage was later annulled by the Catholic Church.

In 1959, she married Prince Radziwill, 20 years her senior, who had arrived in London in 1946 and made a fortune in real estate. The couple had an estate near Henley-on-Thames and a Georgian townhouse near Buckingham Palace. They had two children, Prince Anthony and Princess Anna Christina, and were divorced in 1974. Anthony died in 1999.

In 1988, Mrs. Radziwill married Herbert Ross, the director and choreographer, whose films included “The Sunshine Boys” (1975), “The Goodbye Girl” (1977) and “Steel Magnolias” (1989). They were divorced shortly before his death in 2001, and she resumed the Radziwill surname. In addition to her daughter, Anna Christina, Mrs. Radziwill is survived by a daughter-in-law, the actress Carole Radziwill, and her half brother, Jamie Auchincloss. Her half sister, Janet Auchincloss, died in 1985.

Mrs. Radziwill was a public relations executive for Giorgio Armani from 1986 to 1994, directing special events for the Italian fashion designer.

After Mrs. Onassis died in 1994, her will made no material provision for her sister, “for whom I have great affection,” Mrs. Onassis wrote, “because I have already done so in my lifetime.” It left bequests to each of her sister’s children. The disinheritance of Mrs. Radziwill was widely interpreted as another sign of strain between the sisters, whose relationship had captivated the press and public throughout their lives.

Mrs. Radziwill, who lived in Manhattan, said in a 2013 interview with The Times that being Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis’ sister had been double-edged.

“In some funny way, I’m lucky that there was so much more interest in my sister,” she said. “At times it was annoying, at times funny. Perhaps the most depressing part was that whatever I did, or tried to do, got disproportionate coverage purely because of Jackie being my sister. But you learn to deal with scrutiny, even the lies, as long as it’s not malicious.”

Edited February 18, 2019 by Teri313

[film noire]

Quote

I've heard Lee wasn't a nice person, but I kind of felt sorry for her for this nasty send-off.

It's a good thing Lee's dead. Because reading that obit would have killed her. 

What an ugly and vindictive piece of writing from Robert McFadden (his obit should read: Pultizer prize winner and septic, pus-filled asshole extraordinaire).  And the tone of it -- jesus, it feels barely one step removed from pornographic fan fic about Julia and Suzanne Sugarbaker crossed with a soap opera recap ("Lee slapped Jackie across her creamy-skinned face,  and then laughed at the shock rising in her sister's velvety-brown eyes.  Eyes that had wooed a president, a nation, and de Gaulle himself. "How does THAT feel, sis o' mine?" Lee snarled, her heaving breasts perilously close to spilling out of the Oleg Cassini dress she'd stolen from Jackie's closet.  "Ari Onassis is MY man! You had your Mr. President  - swanning around the White House like a queen, charming the French all Ooo-lala  --  he's dead now, you hear? DEAD DEAD DEAD! And you better leave my Greek alone, you bitch --  or that will be the night the lights go out in Athens!!")  

Carole posted this stunning photo, and a simple farewell: She was loved. Rest in Peace, Lee.  

ETA: I can see Anthony in Lee's face here -- I wonder if that's why Carole chose it. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by film noire

[Otherkate]

Well, I'll say one thing. I'm pretty sure Truman Capote would have absolutely loved that obit. Yowza.

[SuprSuprElevated]

A couple thoughts.  1) As others have said, this reads more like a stunted, unauthorized biography than an obituary.  I realize that the obits of society's elite are not the same as those of yer average Jane and Joe, but wow.  2) Then there's this - "In a brief telephone interview for this obituary, Mrs. Radziwill scoffed at the notion that she had had an affair with Mr. Onassis, and insisted that she had “no regrets, none at all,” about her relationship with her sister, which was widely reported to have been strained after Mrs. Kennedy married Mr. Onassis."  So is it typical of the NYT to write obits in advance, then contact the not-dead-yet subject for a reaction?

^Reasons I'm happy to be living in Obscurityville.

[Teri313]

45 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

A couple thoughts.  1) As others have said, this reads more like a stunted, unauthorized biography than an obituary.  I realize that the obits of society's elite are not the same as those of yer average Jane and Joe, but wow.  2) Then there's this - "In a brief telephone interview for this obituary, Mrs. Radziwill scoffed at the notion that she had had an affair with Mr. Onassis, and insisted that she had “no regrets, none at all,” about her relationship with her sister, which was widely reported to have been strained after Mrs. Kennedy married Mr. Onassis."  So is it typical of the NYT to write obits in advance, then contact the not-dead-yet subject for a reaction?

^Reasons I'm happy to be living in Obscurityville.

Yes! I wondered that too.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

 So is it typical of the NYT to write obits in advance, then contact the not-dead-yet subject for a reaction?

Apparently, yes (what a way to make a living - cheap pun intended ; ) They have hundreds of obits on file ready to go (McFadden has written over 200 - blech) and the subject of the obit (the "pre-dead") being called for an interview is part of the process:

"This is one of the stranger social predicaments in human experience and, trust me, there is nothing in Emily Post to cover it. The midcentury Timesman Alden Whitman, an obituary writer famous for sitting down with his subjects in advance, favored tender circumlocutions on the order of, “We’re updating your biographical file” and “This is for possible future use.” I have used both with a fair margin of success."

https://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2014/08/29/obituaries-for-the-pre-dead/

Sometimes, both the obit writer, and the subject of the obit, are dead:

"Subjects can live so long, in fact, that they survive the writer. When that happens, if the byline is celebrated enough — and the writing too good to consign to the dustbin — our editors may decide to publish the obit, as if from beyond the grave, once its subject has joined its author." 

Edited February 18, 2019 by film noire

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, film noire said:

Apparently, yes (what a way to make a living - cheap pun intended ; ) They have hundreds of obits on file ready to go (McFadden has written over 200 - blech) and the subject of the obit (the "pre-dead") being called for an interview is part of the process:

"This is one of the stranger social predicaments in human experience and, trust me, there is nothing in Emily Post to cover it. The midcentury Timesman Alden Whitman, an obituary writer famous for sitting down with his subjects in advance, favored tender circumlocutions on the order of, “We’re updating your biographical file” and “This is for possible future use.” I have used both with a fair margin of success."

https://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2014/08/29/obituaries-for-the-pre-dead/

Sometimes, both the obit writer, and the subject of the obit, are dead:

"Subjects can live so long, in fact, that they survive the writer. When that happens, if the byline is celebrated enough — and the writing too good to consign to the dustbin — our editors may decide to publish the obit, as if from beyond the grave, once its subject has joined its author." 

[SuprSuprElevated]

Just now, LucindaWalsh said:

From the article, the above is confusing the hell out of me. Did they interview Lee Radziwill after she was dead? 

Lol, no.  Take a look at Film noire's post ^up there.  She explains that this is common practice, presumably with folks of note.  

I have not been contacted.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, LucindaWalsh said:

I will blame it on the new set up as I thought I was multiquoting and hit send before I went back and finished reading. I have heard of pre-obits it just didn't click in time for me. Mostly I think it could have been better phrased and better placed in the article. The whole thing read more as cut and paste than an original piece.

eta I have no clue if Lee was nice or mean but the whole article was just plain out mean and unnecessary. Someone had an ax to grind (a bit of Freud there because I typed ex instead of ax at first)

Yeah, the writer definitely had an axe to grind.  The person does really show his/her ass with the inclusion of that telephone call.  I can't imagine anyone but a tabloid outright asking someone if she banged her brother-in-law.  I expect more from the NYTimes.  I did see another more flattering writeup today from another writer at the Times.  They must have received enough backlash.   

[chewycandy]

The actress Carole Radziwill??

[Stats Queen]

11 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

So is it typical of the NYT to write obits in advance, then contact the not-dead-yet subject for a reaction?

Recently (IMO) the NYT seems, in general, to consider personal opinion/bias prior to actual journalism before facts. Which is sad, because its roots are stellar in fact-based journalism. I’m a centrist politically, so this is not based on political leanings (I hate all politicians and political parties equally), so this has more to do about the number of corrections they’ve had to make because they put the story before the facts in so, so many times. Maybe Lee Radziwill was not a stellar human being, but she’s 85 and it’s obituary - come on!

[Mondrianyone]

New genre:  o-bitch-uary.  I wonder if I can copyright it.

Seriously, what amazes me is less that some hack with a personal grudge or who thought he was being cute wrote an obituary like that than the fact that some editor actually signed off on it.  The obits are one area of most papers where mean-spiritedness normally takes a brief vacation.  Still shaking my head at the gratuitous venom.

[film noire]

1 hour ago, Mondrianyone said:

New genre:  o-bitch-uary.

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

o-bitch-uary.

Winner!

[weaver]

I was shocked by that obit.  The Times itself did a very positive and interesting interview with her about five years ago.    https://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/07/the-real-lee-radziwill/

The obit writer really should have referred to that interview.  

At that point, she lived in Paris, as she had for many years. The Times obit referred to her living in New York.  Another error, who knows?  

[FairyDusted]

They rolled The Kennedy themed shows on Realz over the weekend and I was shocked at even how biting they were toward Lee. WOW! Who exactly did she piss off?? Fuck....

[Teri313]

Not to sound insensitive or morbid or anything, but I'd love to be the person to sort through her stuff and clear her house out. Imagine what she must have in those closets and drawers.

[Rap541]

6 minutes ago, Teri313 said:

Not to sound insensitive or morbid or anything, but I'd love to be the person to sort through her stuff and clear her house out. Imagine what she must have in those closets and drawers.

Based on that oh bitch-uary, I assume there's at least one video or home movie entitled "fuck you Jackie!" with Lee riding one of Jackie's husband's like a show pony.

[TexasGal]

1 minute ago, Rap541 said:

Based on that oh bitch-uary, I assume there's at least one video or home movie entitled "fuck you Jackie!" with Lee riding one of Jackie's husband's like a show pony.

Oh, that would be awesome!

Damn, not only was that oh-bitch-uary awful towards Lee, it had to mention that people thought Jackie and Bobby were more than just friends.  What the actual f*ck?  

[Rap541]

Wait... now I want a home movie of Jackie and Bobby doing it! 😄

Yes, yes I am awful 🙂

[Babyfoot]

Carole wrote a lovely tribute to Lee Radziwill that was published in the Daily Mail. She has link to it in her instagram story.

[Duke2801]

9 hours ago, Babyfoot said:

Carole wrote a lovely tribute to Lee Radziwill that was published in the Daily Mail. She has link to it in her instagram story.

I read it.  Very touching. 

Of course now it’s just a matter of time until somebody insists that her ghost writer penned it...

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

8 hours ago, LucindaWalsh said:

...

I run hot and cold with Carole, like I think I would do with her if she were my friend in real life. Over all, I think she is kind with a mean streak. I can deal with that because she is open to discussion and moving on if you call her out on things. 

Interesting!  I perceive Carole as mostly snarky with a kind streak. She does strike me as loyal when she loves you, and I must say she is way more layered than some of the two-dimensional folks like Ramona. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 hours ago, LucindaWalsh said:

I think under the snobby/shallow is a kind hearted person who does things for others under the radar.

Fair enough, but for me, I think Ramoaner would go to the ends of the earth to find the radar and climb on top of it.  I'm convinced that subtlety is not on her vocabulary list.

[Duke2801]

On 2/21/2019 at 12:29 AM, LucindaWalsh said:

Yes, I can agree with this, oddly enough.

On this I disagree. I am and see myself as always being a fan of Ramona.  She is not adept at getting points across but her points are true most of the time. I think Ramona is actually smarter than Carole, more well rounded and while Ramona lets her snobby/shallow side show, I think under the snobby/shallow is a kind hearted person who does things for others under the radar. Plus, she is a true dork, whereas Carole is a wannabe dork! 

Yes Ramona Singer: the unsung intellect and philanthropist of the Real Housewives franchise. KaDOOZE to her for keeping it under wraps - under the guise of an ill-mannered simpleton - all this time. 

[Rap541]

52 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

Yes Ramona Singer: the unsung intellect and philanthropist of the Real Housewives franchise. KaDOOZE to her for keeping it under wraps - under the guise of an ill-mannered simpleton - all this time. 

I sense you're mocking, and I am totally ok with it since Ramona does present poorly at times but...

She did run her own business. Unlike Bethenny who is constantly striving for that next big thing, Ramona seems content with her success and able to enjoy it. She did manage to get through an on screen divorce without turning it into an on screen shitshow and dare I say it, rather adeptly deflected attention away from it. She seems to handle post divorce life well and without getting arrested in drunken trespass incidents. She always seems completely unaware and yet over the history of the show, who has dropped the most devastating nuclear bombs on Bethenny and walked away essentially unscathed from Bethenny's wrath? And for all that's she's awful on camera, she's the one who is cited for being kind and warm hearted.

Ill mannered simpleton or genius? Clever intellectual Carole is the one who crashed and burned taking on Bethenny but who has risen from the ashes multiple times in wars with Beth?

[pasdetrois]

I recommend reading “Jackie, Janet, and Lee." Explains a lot.

[Reality police]

On 2/20/2019 at 8:29 PM, BckpckFullaNinjas said:

Interesting!  I perceive Carole as mostly snarky with a kind streak. She does strike me as loyal when she loves you, and I must say she is way more layered than some of the two-dimensional folks like Ramona. 

That is probably what will be written on my headstone!

[Gem 10]

On 2/19/2019 at 2:08 PM, FairyDusted said:

They rolled The Kennedy themed shows on Realz over the weekend and I was shocked at even how biting they were toward Lee. WOW! Who exactly did she piss off?? Fuck....

I hardly knew the woman, but that was brutal.  I feel sorry for her legacy.  The mere mention of her son, the Prince and Carole was mean.

[HunterHunted]

On 2/19/2019 at 1:08 PM, FairyDusted said:

They rolled The Kennedy themed shows on Realz over the weekend and I was shocked at even how biting they were toward Lee. WOW! Who exactly did she piss off?? Fuck....

On 2/23/2019 at 5:58 PM, Gem 10 said:

I hardly knew the woman, but that was brutal.  I feel sorry for her legacy.  The mere mention of her son, the Prince and Carole was mean.

Who did Lee piss off? Truman Capote. Gossip columnist Liz Smith. Prince Charles. But mostly Liz Smith.

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 2/18/2019 at 3:33 PM, SuprSuprElevated said:

This cat looks like Billie Lee/Vanderpump Rules, her first season, when she was stunned (thought-bubble: WTF?), watching the other cast members shrieking at one another. 

[Gem 10]

On 2/28/2019 at 8:30 AM, HunterHunted said:

Who did Lee piss off? Truman Capote. Gossip columnist Liz Smith. Prince Charles. But mostly Liz Smith.

Oh well .. there you go.

[BodhiGurl]

As I near the end of my marathon rewatch of last season, I've found that Carole can not help herself when it comes to mentioning Bethenny. I swear, EVERY SINGLE EPISODE, she's droning on and on about Bethenny. For a woman who says she's over BF, she sure likes to bring her up with anyone and everyone. And I'm still at a loss as to why Adam would continue to pursue Carole (I'm up to the episode that features her cosmo party that Adam attended) vs finding a woman closer in age to him. And it's not really the age thing (ok, maybe a little), but I fail to see much chemistry between them. Maybe it's just the suspected mutual enjoyment of smoking pot and chilling - and I suppose in Carole's circles, she has access to good stuff.... I do suspect she made their "coffee" situation out to be more than it was. And didn't some of suspect she sent the 5 dozen droopy tulips to herself? Snort... anywho... horse beating moment - I'm glad she's no longer on the show. 😉 

[xtwheeler]

On 2/23/2019 at 8:39 AM, Rap541 said:

I sense you're mocking, and I am totally ok with it since Ramona does present poorly at times but...She did run her own business. Unlike Bethenny who is constantly striving for that next big thing, Ramona seems content with her success and able to enjoy it.

I find this characterization of Bethenny versus Ramona completely perplexing. Bethenny single-handedly launched a brand she sold for $100 million, and is still paid millions to promote that brand, as well as making a killing in real estate. On her own. 

I find "Bethenny striving for the next big thing" hilarious when you compare it to Ramona, who has peddled Renewal skin line and Ramona Singer Jewelry for HSN,  "True Faith Jewelry" and Ramona Singer Collection on Amazon, and of course the Ramona Pinot Grigio (all of which are vanity brands). 

Bethenny isn't slapping her name on every generic product to come along; she invented a brand she sold for $100m. Who is desperately striving for that 15th minute of fame here? 

[Rap541]

18 minutes ago, xtwheeler said:

I find "Bethenny striving for the next big thing" hilarious when you compare it to Ramona, who has peddled Renewal skin line and Ramona Singer Jewelry for HSN,  "True Faith Jewelry" and Ramona Singer Collection on Amazon, and of course the Ramona Pinot Grigio (all of which are vanity brands). 

Oh I get your point, but I am looking at it from more of a personal happiness standpoint. Ramona was running a successful business when she became a Real Housewife (the clothing resale business that did actually make her some serious coin, it just wasn't terribly glamorous) She had a marriage and a child and a really nice life and seemed to be living pretty happily. Even with the divorce she's managed to move on and be happy. Whereas Bethenny, for all her success, seems increasingly unhappy and can't seem to find happiness in her business success. 

I could be wrong but when I consider which seems happier with their situation, I have to go with Ramona.

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

Bethenny single-handedly launched a brand she sold for $100 million

I think B is a very savvy business person but she in no way “single-handedly” launch SkinnyGirl. 

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

I think B is a very savvy business person but she in no way “single-handedly” launch SkinnyGirl. 

She does admit to sharing her single-handed multi-millions with her business partner David Kanbar.

https://www.inc.com/magazine/201107/how-i-did-it-bethenny-frankel-skinnygirl-cocktails.html

[TheWorst]

On 3/4/2019 at 5:41 PM, BodhiGurl said:

And I'm still at a loss as to why Adam would continue to pursue Carole (I'm up to the episode that features her cosmo party that Adam attended) vs finding a woman closer in age to him. 

Camera time and her connections; he wants to be a famous food person, it seems. I mean, what a coincidence that after months of no contact he sends her flowers and shows up to her events during filming. And Carole is desperate to feel young, so win/win for both I guess.

In my opinion, what takes away from his good looks is his low/weak energy. It’s like he needs more iron in his diet. Is that what being vegan does to you?  

[Ki-in]

On 3/4/2019 at 8:41 PM, BodhiGurl said:

 And I'm still at a loss as to why Adam would continue to pursue Carole 

She says he's pursuing her. We never saw any of that on screen and no evidence as to who sent the tulips. Just like when they were "practically living together" (season 7), or when they were "nesting" (season 8) and when they were actually "shacking up" (season 9).  Only Carole's word for it with nothing to back it up. 

[BckpckFullaNinjas]

7 hours ago, TheWorst said:

Camera time and her connections; he wants to be a famous food person, it seems. I mean, what a coincidence that after months of no contact he sends her flowers and shows up to her events during filming. And Carole is desperate to feel young, so win/win for both I guess.

In my opinion, what takes away from his good looks is his low/weak energy. It’s like he needs more iron in his diet. Is that what being vegan does to you?  

Tom Brady reportedly is vegan, so I’d guess not necessarily.  My diagnosis is more toward the “mush-mind” line. Unfortunate side effect of too much ganja. 

I watched the RHONY season preview teaser and am signing off the show and its characters all together. Way too messy for me. 

But it’s been a good amount of fun participating here! Carry on and Never Stop The Snark!

❤️. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by BckpckFullaNinjas

[Mrs peel]

I read the obit and saw it completely differently.  Re-reading, I guess I see the anger and hatred.  But she was a kinda rich woman who did little with her life, who wouldn’t have had an obit in the Times if she hadn’t been the sister of a First Lady.  Nor would she likely have had an “acting career”, or likely a “design business.”  Typing this, I’m reminded of Sonja.  

Now there was no reason to be particularly mean, mentioning the stunningly bad reviews of her acting, or the stuff about Onassis.  But I was reminded of the episode of the Mary Tyler Moore Show, where Mary has to stay up all. Ignite revising obits to have ready for when someone dies.  She gets a bit giddy and tired, and does a particularly funny and odd obit for a well known clown, who is alive and well but promptly dies the next day.  And the idiot newscaster reads it straight.

[Thumper]

Thanks for the info. Some "friends" of Lee's to advise her to go into acting.  Didn't Truman Capote ever watch her and as someone in the biz, give her some constructive criticism?  I do feel bad for her.  I hope she had some happiness in her life.

Are the Kardashians the modern-day equivalent, in a much crasser way?

[ScoobieDoobs]

Aw, Carole, uh so sorry, or maybe not so sorry -- WOMP, WOMP, WOMP . . . 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6860641/Lee-Radziwill-left-daughter-bulk-estimated-50million-estate.html

Hey, Carole, maybe ya shoulda stayed living in Bethenny's asshole?  At least then she'd still have some Bravo dough, cuz she didn't get squat from Lee.

Edited March 29, 2019 by ScoobieDoobs

[film noire]

3 hours ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

 WOMP, WOMP, WOMP . . . 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6860641/Lee-Radziwill-left-daughter-bulk-estimated-50million-estate.html

Wait -- Jackie leaves Anthony and Tina half a mil each, and Lee leaves nothing to Caroline Kennedy? Not even a personal memento? A painting, a book, a piece of jewelery? Man, that's fucking cold. 

I know Jackie didn't leave Lee any cash, and mentioned supporting Lee financially throughout her life in her will (last word played to the nth!) but jesus, your sister remembered your kids,  return the favour. (Casts a slightly different light on that godawful obitchuary - tm @Mondrianyone : ) 

Carole Radziwill is writing a second memoir, which will pick up after her first memoir and include her time on RHoNY (What Complains?)  and oh muh gawd,  I hope she divulges every last bit of dirt. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by film noire

[biakbiak]

1. It’s the DM and they only quote one paragraph from a 16 page will. 2. It was updated shortly before her death so maybe she bequeathed personal items I. The last few months. 3. The idea that Caroline Schlossberg would expect an inheritance from her aunt is dumb. 4. I imagine the will wasn’t a surprise to anyone and the DM is extrapolating a ton.

[Mrs peel]

10 hours ago, biakbiak said:

1. It’s the DM and they only quote one paragraph from a 16 page will. 2. It was updated shortly before her death so maybe she bequeathed personal items I. The last few months. 3. The idea that Caroline Schlossberg would expect an inheritance from her aunt is dumb. 4. I imagine the will wasn’t a surprise to anyone and the DM is extrapolating a ton.

Caroline is worth a fortune, she doesn’t need anything from her aunt.  If she wants a momento, perhaps her cousin will give her one.  Not sure how I feel about Carole not being in the will.

[SuprSuprElevated]

I don't see why Carole would be in the will.  🤷‍♀️

Other than bequeathing her a specific loved trinket or something, nope.

Edited March 29, 2019 by SuprSuprElevated

[HunterHunted]

I have a hard time believing the Daily Fail's assertion that Lee's estate is worth $50 million because of a long ago trust. Lee was a well known spendthrift. Considering how difficult she was reported to be as she and Herb Ross tried to sell their house in the Hamptons, this slightly preceded their divorce, I think the bulk of the money in Lee's estate came from her last divorce. I think Ross gave her the house in the divorce and she sold it like a year later for $20 million.

[Chit Chat]

19 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Other than bequeathing her a specific loved trinket or something, nope.

It would be nice to be mentioned in the will as a way of saying that her MIL did care for Carole, even if it's not money, but like you said, some beloved trinket or piece of jewelry, or something!  I would take it as a snub if she didn't at least let her daughter know of some specific item that Carole might appreciate.   Oh well, since we don't know what their relationship was like, it's hard to judge why Lee handled it this way.  Wasn't there an article or something that indicated that Lee wasn't happy with Carole being on the Housewives show, or was that just a rumor?  

On the other hand, I can understand Lee giving everything to her daughter and then she can do with it as she pleases.  Maybe she wasn't up to sorting out items and deciding who would get what.  

[biakbiak]

36 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

have a hard time believing the Daily Fail's assertion that Lee's estate is worth $50 million because of a long ago trust. Lee was a well known spendthrift.

I swear $50 million is a number that is just thrown out for everyone when they want to indicate “rich” because it’s high enough to be a lot of money but not so crazy that people think it’s impossible. 

26 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

It would be nice to be mentioned in the will as a way of saying that her MIL did care for Carole, even if it's not money, but like you said, some beloved trinket or piece of jewelry, or something! 

Except it’s entiely possible this was done in person. I have never considered the will the place to tell someone you loved them.