Loathesome!: Characters We Hate

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

Oh, while we're on the subject of The Waltons, another entitled sib that bugged me (especially in the early years since she DID improve towards the end) was Mary Ellen. There was one episode in which all the sibs were expected to help harvest an orchard to get paid monies they needed and some record producer guy approached her about. .. folk music and she just took off with him  over her family's objections to try to find older and more traditional mountaineers who could sing these otherwise undocumented folk  songs.  After he found the right singers, he dropped her back off with the family. Here's the kicker, instead of everyone being furious that she took off with this stranger (and therefore potentially put herself at SERIOUS risk for crimes against her person if not being killed/kidnapped  by this adult man who was a total stranger to boot), AND left the other sibs holding the bag to do her share of the work. When John, Sr. doled out the monies he'd gotten for the harvest from the orchard owner, he divvied it up among the six but not Mary Ellen. .. and the other sibs felt BAD for Mary Ellen and insisted that she get all of their funds despite the fact that THEY had worked the whole time and she'd taken off and put herself at serious risk, etc. ALL because Mary Ellen felt blue that this record producer guy didn't somehow think she was worth becoming his permanent assistant . And believe it or not, John actually got guilted into giving her ALL the harvest  monies AND sending her to visit an never before/since mentioned offscreen aunt living in Washington, D.C. so she could get cheered up via sightseeing! 

Mary Ellen and John Boy were always tied for my least fave Walton kids.  I agree on the apple picking thing.  But, the other 6 kids did take a vote and unanimously agreed to give her all (well almost all) of their money.  I don't know that I would have done that, but at least it was their choice.  I do wonder what would happen, though, if for example, Ben decided he wanted his share of the money.  Would he have felt pressured to not be the only one to say no?

The weird thing is my fave Walton kid is Erin and I'm not sure why because she's pretty whiny.  It's kind of weird because I'm not a middle child, but I tend to drift towards middle children on TV shows with large families. Erin on The Waltons.  Jan on the Brady Bunch.  Well, I guess that's only two, but those 2 shows were a huge part of my childhood.

[Ohwell]

I had a crush on John Boy.  There.  I said it. 😄

Edited to add:  I never liked Elizabeth, I thought she was a whiny little brat.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Ohwell

[catlover79]

On 4/25/2018 at 7:07 AM, roamyn said:

I’ve decidedly to add Raj Koothrapali of TBBT on my hate list.    He’s selfish, whiny, manipulative , and treats women like objects most of the time.  And he knows it and revels in it.

Amen!! His treatment of women alone would put him on this list, though the way he sells out his friends is also a great example.

[bmoore4026]

Does everyone on Will and Grace count?  I know it's a groundbreaking show and I feel like a traitor to gaykind for not liking it, but all four characters on that show are loathsome individuals.  The Always Sunny Gang could take pointers from the Will and Grace crew.

[Ohiopirate02]

25 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Does everyone on Will and Grace count?  I know it's a groundbreaking show and I feel like a traitor to gaykind for not liking it, but all four characters on that show are loathsome individuals.  The Always Sunny Gang could take pointers from the Will and Grace crew.

I remember enjoying Will and Grace when it first aired and I was less worldly.   I tried to watch reruns and the reboot as an adult, and realized all 4 main characters were smug assholes.   Not only that, the writers expected me to think Will and Grace were just the greatest two ever.  I'm fine with assholes as my leads when the writers and actors know the characters really suck like Seinfeld.   But, Will and Grace were insufferable.   I did like Karen in small doses.  Probably because Megan Mullally knew and was in on the joke.

[Shannon L.]

10 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I remember enjoying Will and Grace when it first aired and I was less worldly.   I tried to watch reruns and the reboot as an adult, and realized all 4 main characters were smug assholes.   Not only that, the writers expected me to think Will and Grace were just the greatest two ever.  I'm fine with assholes as my leads when the writers and actors know the characters really suck like Seinfeld.   But, Will and Grace were insufferable.   I did like Karen in small doses.  Probably because Megan Mullally knew and was in on the joke.

I liked the first couple of seasons, but then the writers did what they all seem to do in comedy, especially with Karen and Jack:  they got way too cartoonish, silly and in K and J's case, bitchy.  They got stupid.  I've complained about it before--I don't know why writers do that.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

I liked the first couple of seasons, but then the writers did what they all seem to do in comedy, especially with Karen and Jack:  they got way too cartoonish, silly and in K and J's case, bitchy.  They got stupid.  I've complained about it before--I don't know why writers do that.

I never liked Jack because the writers forgot to balance out his character.  They never showed why anyone would want to be around Jack.  He was always insulting Will and Grace while sucking up to Karen because she was rich.  I need to know why Will and Grace allowed him into their apartment.  

[Snow Apple]

I enjoyed some moments with Jack like when he came out to his mother, or bonding with Grace over figure skating. But I agree the writers took a funny side character and kept pushing until it got annoying. It's like that with all shows though.

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

I enjoyed some moments with Jack like when he came out to his mother, or bonding with Grace over figure skating. But I agree the writers took a funny side character and kept pushing until it got annoying. It's like that with all shows though.

That's how I feel about Urkel on Family Matters.  he was supposed to be a 1 epi character and he ended up taking over the whole show.

[Mabinogia]

On 6/5/2020 at 9:35 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I never liked Jack because the writers forgot to balance out his character.  They never showed why anyone would want to be around Jack.  He was always insulting Will and Grace while sucking up to Karen because she was rich.  I need to know why Will and Grace allowed him into their apartment.  

I just assumed it was because they themselves were such horrible human beings that they liked having him around to make them look slightly better in comparison, which they didn't. I'd take a million Jack and Karen's over Will and Grace any day. 

[BlackberryJam]

So I've been doing a rewatch of Haven. I didn't think I could ever do it because the series ended so poorly, but well...pandemic. I really enjoyed S1, Emily Rose was ...uneven, but the stories were good, the MotW format with the overarching story was interesting. I loved S2 and all of the characters (Dwight!)...until about the last ten minutes of the season finale when Nathan Wuornos turned into a total asshole. 

In the S2 finale, Nathan decides that because he found Duke Crocker's necklace in Audrey Parker's apartment, it must have been Duke who kidnapped Audrey. Now, Duke had spent two seasons reluctantly helping Nathan and Audrey, always coming through with the MotW and generally proving himself to be a reliable, if roguish, guy. Nathan had spent those seasons picking through false clues and learning to look beyond the obvious.

So when Nathan decides Duke is the EVUL who must have taken Audrey, it just doesn't flow. It's from that point that Nathan's response to every situation is "Duke did it!" In S2, Nathan asks Duke to come with them to protect Audrey and Duke comes every single time. In the first part of the S2 finale, he watches as Duke very specifically refuses to kill a man even when that man is begging for Duke to do it. He sees how Duke reacts when that man impales himself on a knife Duke is holding. Duke is very obviously distraught. So much so that when Nathan goes to accuse Duke of taking Audrey, Duke is morosely drinking on his own. But NO, Nathan must beat up Duke because Duke OBVIOUSLY kidnapped Audrey, I mean, not that he had any reason to or anything. 

In S3, over and over again Duke says and proves that he's not like his father, and Nathan acts like a petulant school boy, stamping his feet and screaming, "But Duke is BAD!" It's ridiculous and stupid. On top of that, it's revealed over and over that Duke has always been the one helping Nathan out. Eight year old Duke carried broken arm Nathan to the hospital. When Nathan was at a low, thinking of leaving the police force, it's Duke who gives Nathan an anonymous tip that saves his career. 

And Nathan becomes the worst boyfriend ever. He manipulates one supremely damaged woman (Jordan) romantically. He stops respecting Audrey and either withholds vital information from her or refuses to accept her decisions. He tries over and over to take away her agency.

Then, to top it all off, he travels back in time, meets another version of Audrey (Sarah), one with a totally different personality, knows her for less than 5 hours, bangs her and impregnates her. In the S3 finale, he reveals this to Audrey and says, "it was a way for me to be with you." (Also in the time travel episode, Nathan is insistent that Duke kill his own grandfather without any thought that Duke might struggle with that. And this is the Duke that came out to help Nathan secretly bury Nathan's father.)

HOLY FUCK. Seriously, "I fucked a woman who looked like you (but with a bad red wig) because I couldn't actually be with you and you should consider this proof of my love for you." Strangely, Audrey is not wholly disgusted with him. WTF?

In S4, he's petulant, whiny, angry, and keeps wanting to leave people in danger because AUDREY. I mean, not that Audrey's sole mission while in Haven was to help the people there or anything. Let's just ignore everything Audrey stood for in the favor of twu wuv. Nathan is willing to terrorize a woman with mental illness (Jennifer) to get information about Audrey. Now, Jennifer isn't a crook or anything, she's just a nice, slightly hapless young woman who hears voices. I cannot even count the number of times Nathan shoves a gun in someone's (usually Duke's) face.

And in S5, Nathan and Audrey are played out like some love story across time, space and dimensions. In the end, and I'll spoiler tag this for those who may want to watch the show (and believe me, S1&2 are SO GOOD.) 

Spoiler

Audrey goes away forever. Then months later Nathan runs in to a fifth woman (Paige) [there was a third in S4 (Lexie) and fourth in S5 (Mara)] in the Audrey body and who has yet another personality and it's implied he's going to romance her. So he will have had sex with the same body that has three different personalities. And that's a love story. 

Nathan Wuornos is the horrific, controlling asshole boyfriend that every woman should avoid. I hate him so much. Well...not the S1 and most of S2 Nathan. And maybe that's why I hate what he became. 

And I'm not saying every other character in the show was some paragon or is perfectly written. Audrey is mostly well done, but Emily Rose's acting is...well, uneven is the best I can say. I just imagine what Tatiana Maslany would have done with the role, but she's the gold standard for playing clones. Duke Crocker is a bit too much of the stereotypical charming rogue/thief, but at least he's consistent in his characterization.

All this to say, fuck Nathan Wuornos. Fuck him. He sucks. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by BlackberryJam

[dargosmydaddy]

This is the reason why I will never be able to do a Haven rewatch. And I loved the early seasons. I remember sticking around to the end, under the delusion that maybe they would find a way to fix things, but no, it just got worse and worse...

[BlackberryJam]

45 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

This is the reason why I will never be able to do a Haven rewatch. And I loved the early seasons. I remember sticking around to the end, under the delusion that maybe they would find a way to fix things, but no, it just got worse and worse...

I had sworn not to do it either, but on rewatch, S2 is one of the most well-done, intricately woven seasons of sci-fi TV. It manages continuing characters, overarching stories and MotW that interconnect and move things forward. There is character development, relationship development, and it's just damn good. There are some really great episodes. 

The first mini-arc is "the real Audrey" and Nathan is supportive and a really good guy throughout that. Then it moves into the Chris Brody arc and Nathan deals well with Audrey dating someone else. There is some jealousy, but he doesn't turn into petulant toddler. In Lockdown, Chris Brody comes back and it's the end of Evi, with a great guest spot by Dylan Neal, of Blood Ties and the Gourmet Detective. That leads into the final arc with the Rev and the big reveal of the Crocker family Trouble. That season is worth the rewatch. 

I just let myself go past the S3 finale and *shudder* it's so bad. Emily Rose who had been improving all along was really awful in S4 when she was playing Lexie. 

Lucas Bryant, who played Nathan, plays every scripted emotion so well, but none of those emotions make sense. 

I should take more of my thoughts back to the Haven thread but needed to release the "I hate Nathan."

[Mabinogia]

6 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

So I've been doing a rewatch of Haven.

Ah, Haven, a show that started out brilliantly and then crashed and burned in the most spectacularly bad way. Such a waste of a great, great concept.

I was always Team Duke in any and every Duke vs Nathan conflict. Nathan sucked.

[BlackberryJam]

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Ah, Haven, a show that started out brilliantly and then crashed and burned in the most spectacularly bad way. Such a waste of a great, great concept.

I was always Team Duke in any and every Duke vs Nathan conflict. Nathan sucked.

Always Team Duke. Even when I liked Nathan, I was still Team Duke. 

[bijoux]

On 6/4/2020 at 1:58 PM, andromeda331 said:

I hated him, Sonny and Carly. All three were such horrible people. Jason and Sonny killed people, were in the mob, stole other people's wives and kids. But oh no they were the "heroes" Ah no they're murdering assholes. Carly of course with all the crap she's pulled. They were the reason I finally quit General Hospital. I was so sick of them. Still haven't let it go that Jason stole his brother's kid because he decided AJ wasn't good enough to raise his own kid. But you know being raised by a mob hitman with bodyguards is so much better. Then Sonny end up raising him when he and Carly got together and forced AJ to give up his parental rights. By holding him in a meat locker. But yeah, Sonny's the "good" guy. 

This sounds like such a strange show. Not least of which because I can't remember people ever mentioning anything hospital related when discussing it. 

As for Will and Grace, I do still laugh at YouTube clips when they pop up. The cartoon-y style works for those small segments when you don't really worry about things like characters IMO. 

[Katy M]

8 hours ago, bijoux said:

his sounds like such a strange show. Not least of which because I can't remember people ever mentioning anything hospital related when discussing it. 

It's been on the air since 1963.  The hospital used to feature much more heavily and it is still there.  They're not going to change the name of the show to Days of Our Corinthos, now though.  

I hate Greg and Marcia Brady.  They just think they're so great.  

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

  

I hate Greg and Marcia Brady.  They just think they're so great.  

Ah but Marcia got ONE moment of the perfect comeuppance. In 'Juliet is the Sun', she become SO stuck up and obnoxious(at least a little more so than usual)  to her family and school castmates when cast as the female lead for the high school play of 'Romeo and Juliet'  that Carol (for once) actually put her Brady foot down AND pulled her eldest daughter out of the leading role, telling Marcia she brought it on herself while Marcia went into a crying jag but Carol didn't back down and let her stew in her own! The episode ended with Marcia being humbled having to take a much smaller part. If only this had happened with either Michelle Tanner or Riley Matthews on their shows!

Edited June 10, 2020 by Blergh

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Ah but Marcia got ONE moment of the perfect comeuppance. In 'Juliet is the Sun', she become SO stuck up and obnoxious(at least a little more so than usual)  to her family and school castmates when cast as the female lead for the high school play of 'Romeo and Juliet'  that Carol (for once) actually put her Brady foot down AND pulled her eldest daughter out of the leading role, telling Marcia she brought it on herself while Marcia went into a crying jag but Carol didn't back down and let her stew in her own! The episode ended with Marcia being humbled having to take a much smaller part. If only this had happened with either Michelle Tanner or Riley Matthews on their shows!

Yeah.  That was a good episode.  Along with the "oh my nose" episode. And the ones where Greg gets so cocky that Bobby is allowed to beat him in competition.  That's just embarrassing.

[DearEvette]

I just started watching Motherland: Fort Salem and I have to refrain from calling the main character Raelle, 'this dumb bitch' more than once an hour.  She is already the sort of character I hate  ---  the oh so "complicated" chick with the edgy hair and bad attitude and tragic backstory but she's "special".  But she is also rude and dismissive and frankly stupid.  Guh. Can't stand her.

[kathyk2]

On 6/9/2020 at 4:12 PM, BlackberryJam said:

I had sworn not to do it either, but on rewatch, S2 is one of the most well-done, intricately woven seasons of sci-fi TV. It manages continuing characters, overarching stories and MotW that interconnect and move things forward. There is character development, relationship development, and it's just damn good. There are some really great episodes. 

The first mini-arc is "the real Audrey" and Nathan is supportive and a really good guy throughout that. Then it moves into the Chris Brody arc and Nathan deals well with Audrey dating someone else. There is some jealousy, but he doesn't turn into petulant toddler. In Lockdown, Chris Brody comes back and it's the end of Evi, with a great guest spot by Dylan Neal, of Blood Ties and the Gourmet Detective. That leads into the final arc with the Rev and the big reveal of the Crocker family Trouble. That season is worth the rewatch. 

I just let myself go past the S3 finale and *shudder* it's so bad. Emily Rose who had been improving all along was really awful in S4 when she was playing Lexie. 

Lucas Bryant, who played Nathan, plays every scripted emotion so well, but none of those emotions make sense. 

I should take more of my thoughts back to the Haven thread but needed to release the "I hate Nathan."

My hated Syfy character was Walter Bishop from Fringe. Walter experimented on children including Olivia and kidnapped Peter from his family. I think shows like Haven and Fringe got too complex for their own good.

[BlackberryJam]

8 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

My hated Syfy character was Walter Bishop from Fringe. Walter experimented on children including Olivia and kidnapped Peter from his family. I think shows like Haven and Fringe got too complex for their own good.

But Walter cried and was remorseful for ruining two worlds. I mean, when a man breaks down and cries, that excuses all his shitty behavior, right?

[proserpina65]

On 5/26/2020 at 2:19 PM, supposebly said:

Being from a country where the only cheering comes from the audience, I'll never understand cheer-leading.

Why do American athletes need cheering so much? And why does it have to be from girls wearing skirts that barely count as such?

The cheerleaders are there to get the audience pepped up.  That's why the usually face the audience, not the teams.

 

[proserpina65]

Having recently seen a bunch of episodes of Xena, Warrior Princess, I remembered how much I hated Callisto.  The character was interesting at first but got used so often that almost every episode she was in turned out terrible.  Except for Intimate Stranger, where she tricks Xena into trading bodies.  That one was actually entertaining.

[Irlandesa]

I'm putting this here even though most people probably haven't heard of the show or the character. 

Valeria from the new Spanish Netflix show called Valeria (billed as Spain's version Sex & The City).  Given that she's the main character, I think we're supposed to root for her. But she's one of those annoying writer characters who only wants to focus on her novel so she ends up turning down a regular paying gig even though it's not like her husband earns enough that they could easily live as a one income.  Then she lies to her husband about it.  But that's only the beginning of her awfulness. 
Over the course of the season,

Spoiler

 

she continues to lie to her husband.  She also lusts over another dude because he tells her she should just focus on her writing knowing nothing about her life and how she can support herself.  This is a dude I think we're also supposed to think is terrific but he basically stalks her after meeting her when she doesn't return his texts (because she's married and he knows this) until she does, pulls her aside at a party to make out with her even though her husband is in the next room (she's complicit here too) and follows her to her parents' house hours away because he saw she was there on her social media.

She adamantly refuses to open up her marriage when her husband suggests it as a way of spicing things up since they're in a rough patch only to have her continue to flirt with stalker guy until she decides she's going to fuck him.  But when they get into a fight before that can happen, she ends up screwing some rando from a bar.  That doesn't stop her, though, as the next day, when her husband goes on a business trip, stalker guy comes over and they finally do it even though it means she misses a delivery she agreed she'd get for her husband.

And I think the show wants us to think it's romantic?

She doesn't tell her husband, though.  She just tells her friends that she's going to separate from him.  Except a month later, she still hasn't.  We see her back out of it at least twice in the final episode so it's hard to believe her when she again says that this definitely will be the day.  The only reason it ends up being the day is because her husband finally suggests a separation.

 

The worst thing is, she's never called out on her awfulness. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Irlandesa

[AstaCharles]

I'm not a fan of the Aurora Teagarden movies on Hallmark Mystery Channel, but it's left on quite a bit in our house..mostly as harmless fluff background noise. But when I do watch it , I really detest Aurora's mom. She is awful to her daughter. Aurora needs to move and get away from her mother

[bijoux]

On 6/15/2020 at 8:16 AM, Irlandesa said:

I'm putting this here even though most people probably haven't heard of the show or the character. 

Valeria from the new Spanish Netflix show called Valeria (billed as Spain's version Sex & The City).  Given that she's the main character, I think we're supposed to root for her. But she's one of those annoying writer characters who only wants to focus on her novel so she ends up turning down a regular paying gig even though it's not like her husband earns enough that they could easily live as a one income family.  Then she lies to her husband about it.  But that's only the beginning of her awfulness. 
Over the course of the season,

  Hide contents

 

she continues to lie to her husband.  She also lusts over another dude because he tells her she should just focus on her writing knowing nothing about her life and how she can support herself.  This is a dude I think we're also supposed to think is terrific but he happens he basically stalks her when she doesn't return his texts (because she's married and he knows this) until she does, pulls her aside at a party to make out with her even though her husband is in the next room (she's complicit here too) and follows her to her parents' house because he saw she was there on her social media.

She adamantly refuses to open up her marriage when her husband suggests it as a way of spicing things up since they're in a rough patch only to have her continue flirting with stalker guy until she decides she's going to fuck him.  But when they get into a fight before that can happen, she ends up screwing some rando from a bar.  That doesn't stop her, though, as the next day, when her husband goes on a business trip, stalker guy comes over and they finally do it even though it means she misses a delivery she agreed she'd get for her husband.

And I think the show wants us to think it's romantic?

She doesn't tell her husband, though.  She just tells her friends that she's going to separate from him.  Except a month later, she still hasn't.  We see her back out of it at least twice in the final episode so it's hard to believe her when she again says that this definitely will be the day.  The only reason it ends up being the day is because her husband finally suggests a separation.

 

The worst thing is, she's never called out on her awfulness. 

 

[Spartan Girl]

I've really come to hate Kyle on South Park. He's turned into a self-righteous hypocrite.

[Danny Franks]

On 6/17/2020 at 11:05 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I've really come to hate Kyle on South Park. He's turned into a self-righteous hypocrite.

I've not watched South Park in years but, as Cartman became, more and more, the voice of the show, it was inevitable that Kyle would end up being written as self-righteous and hypocritical. He's always been Cartman's main critic, and that worked when Cartman was always ridiculed and embarrassed in the end, for the awful things he said and did.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Danny Franks

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

I've not watched South Park in years but, as Cartman became, more and more, the voice of the show, it was inevitable that Kyle would end up being written as self-righteous and hypocritical. He's always been Cartman's main critic, and that worked when Cartman was always ridiculed and embarrassed in the end, for the awful things he said and did.

It's not really anything to do with Cartman. It's just that lately Kyle has a very large double standard when it comes to right and wrong. If Cartman does something terrible, he's more than happy to bring him down, but if his own father does it, he'll bend over backward to cover his ass.

[Shannon L.]

We're half way through season 2 of Homeland.  We're enjoying it, but I have to ask:  Are we supposed to like Carrie?  I don't know if I'd call her "loathsome", but when she starts going rogue and when she gets romantic and physical with Brody (seriously?!) I have a really hard time watching her character.  I know she's bipolar, but still.....when they start getting physical and making eyes at each other, I just want to roll mine.  It takes the enjoyment out of the scene for me. 

[Danny Franks]

On 6/27/2020 at 2:46 PM, Shannon L. said:

We're half way through season 2 of Homeland.  We're enjoying it, but I have to ask:  Are we supposed to like Carrie?  I don't know if I'd call her "loathsome", but when she starts going rogue and when she gets romantic and physical with Brody (seriously?!) I have a really hard time watching her character.  I know she's bipolar, but still.....when they start getting physical and making eyes at each other, I just want to roll mine.  It takes the enjoyment out of the scene for me. 

I stopped watching that show because she was so taxing a character. Utterly self-obsessed and constantly aggrieved, bringing most of her problems down on herself. I guess we're supposed to watch because "she's interesting and compelling". No thanks. They had several characters more interesting than her, all of whom ended up sidelined and/or killed off.

Here's a character that I've just been reminded I can't stand - Xander Harris in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I'm just watching an old episode, and Giles wants to kill Angelus because of what happened to Jenny. Xander, all self-righteous and gross says it's great and "don't forget, I've hated Angel long before you guys got on board, so I think I deserve some credit for being right." Fuck you, you creep. The only reason he hated Angel was because Angel was with Buffy, and now he's using the tragedy of Angel losing his soul, breaking Buffy's heart and killing someone they care about as an "I told you so" opportunity. Fucking Nice Guy weasel.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Danny Franks

[Enigma X]

I stopped watching Homeland too because of Carrie being insufferable. Well, there were other reasons but that was the main one.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Enigma X

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I stopped watching that show because she was so taxing a character. Utterly self-obsessed and constantly aggrieved, bringing most of her problems down on herself. I guess we're supposed to watch because "she's interesting and compelling". No thanks. They had several characters more interesting than her, all of whom ended up sidelined and/or killed off.

Here's a character that I've just been reminded I can't stand - Xander Harris in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I'm just watching an old episode, and Giles wants to kill Angelus because of what happened to Jenny. Xander, all self-righteous and gross says it's great and "don't forget, I've hated Angel long before you guys got on board, so I think I deserve some credit for being right." Fuck you, you creep. The only reason he hated Angel was because Angel was with Buffy, and now he's using the tragedy of Angel losing his soul, breaking Buffy's heart and killing someone they care about as an "I told you so" opportunity. Fucking Nice Guy weasel.

THANK YOU. I always hated that line: Xander acting like he deserves credit for not saying "I told you so" when in fact he IS saying "I told you so." Why cool characters like Jenny and Kendra got killed off and that self righteous useless asswipe survived for the entire show is just infuriating.

[Danny Franks]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

THANK YOU. I always hated that line: Xander acting like he deserves credit for not saying "I told you so" when in fact he IS saying "I told you so." Why cool characters like Jenny and Kendra got killed off and that self righteous useless asswipe survived for the entire show is just infuriating.

More absolute dickishness from him a couple of episodes later, when they find the curse and Xander says "the way I see it, you want to forget all about Ms. Calendar's murder so you can get your boyfriend back." Accidentally highlighting again his true reasons for hating Angel - "boyfriend".

That, right there, should be a friendship ender. Sadly, I'm not too surprised that Joss Whedon thinks this is an acceptable and forgiveable way to act.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Danny Franks

[Mabinogia]

Just now, Danny Franks said:

More absolute dinkishness from him a couple of episodes later, when they find the curse and Xander says "the way I see it, you want to forget all about Ms. Calendar's murder so you can get.your boyfriend back."

With all the times Xander acted possessive, jealous or entitled to Buffy I hate that she remained friends with him. The sad thing is, I never really noticed it the first time around. I liked Xander initially. Rewatching later (and older) I realize what a nice guy* he really was. I hated Angel too, so I would have been very happy if they'd managed to somehow kill each other. 

*nice guy in the "I'm nice to you now you have to sleep with me" way

[Wiendish Fitch]

I've read some defense of Xander's aforementioned behavior, attributing it to him mourning Jesse (remember him?)'s death.

I call bull on that.If we'd gotten to know Jesse better, and if Xander mentioned him more often throughout the show, maybe-MAYBE- they'd have a point, but Jesse is never mentioned again after the second episode of season one. After that, it's impossible for me to see Xander's dickish behavior as anything but pathetic "Nice Guy"-ing of Buffy.

 

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I've read some defense of Xander's aforementioned behavior, attributing it to him mourning Jesse (remember him?)'s death.

I call bull on that.If we'd gotten to know Jesse better, and if Xander mentioned him more often throughout the show, maybe-MAYBE- they'd have a point, but Jesse is never mentioned again after the second episode of season one. After that, it's impossible for me to see Xander's dickish behavior as anything but pathetic "Nice Guy"-ing of Buffy.

 

I call bull on it too. Xander was just a hypocrite who loved to hear himself talk.

This makes me grateful for how Xena wrote Joxer. He may have been a buffoon but he never gave preachy little speeches. And even though he pined after Gabrielle, it didn't turn him into an asshole even when it was clear she didn't love him back.

If someone like Xander dared to give Xena shit over her love life, he'd be six feet under.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Spartan Girl

[Spartan Girl]

On 6/29/2020 at 1:37 PM, Danny Franks said:

More absolute dickishness from him a couple of episodes later, when they find the curse and Xander says "the way I see it, you want to forget all about Ms. Calendar's murder so you can get your boyfriend back." Accidentally highlighting again his true reasons for hating Angel - "boyfriend".

That, right there, should be a friendship ender. Sadly, I'm not too surprised that Joss Whedon thinks this is an acceptable and forgiveable way to act.

The real friendship ender, IMO, should have been when Xander berated Buffy for hiding the fact that Angel was alive, went behind her back with Faith to try and kill him, and then had the nerve to end the episode saying that he did trust Buffy.

Buffy should have laughed in his face and said, " Oh is that why you didn't tell me Willow was trying the soul spell on Angel again?" 

And Willow would have been pissed that Xander undermined her behind her back and realized what a fool she was for cheating on Oz with him and Cordy would have realized that she could do way, way better than him...and all three girls would have kicked him to the curb at the same time.

That would have been brilliant.

[Danny Franks]

Next episode of Xander Harris is a Colossal Dick: him being "done with all that guilt" over cheating on Cordelia, in the episode right after he was caught.

Then he gets pissy with Willow because she tells him he can't be casually touching her while she wants to make things up to Oz.

Honestly, I never understood what Cordelia saw in him, and still don't. Nothing was ever good enough for him - he could never see Willow because he had the hots for Buffy, then he finally gets a girl who is way too good for him, and cheats on her with Willow. Then, even with Anya, he treats her like she's an idiot he just has to tolerate most of the time.

But I always figure he was the voice of Joss in the show. It explains a lot.

[festivus]

Before I quit reading the comics, he got with Dawn. I think she was of age by then, but still squicky. Their relationship always read big brother/little sister to me.

[Danny Franks]

24 minutes ago, festivus said:

Before I quit reading the comics, he got with Dawn. I think she was of age by then, but still squicky. Their relationship always read big brother/little sister to me.

To be fair, it seems consistent to Xander's character that this wouldn't give him a moment's pause if it meant he got some action.

[Wiendish Fitch]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The real friendship ender, IMO, should have been when Xander berated Buffy for hiding the fact that Angel was alive, went behind her back with Faith to try and kill him, and then had the nerve to end the episode saying that he did trust Buffy.

Buffy should have laughed in his face and said, " Oh is that why you didn't tell me Willow was trying the soul spell on Angel again?" 

And Willow would have been pissed that Xander undermined her behind her back and realized what a fool she was for cheating on Oz with him and Cordy would have realized that she could do way, way better than him...and all three girls would have kicked him to the curb at the same time.

That would have been brilliant.

They did address the whole "lying to Buffy (and by extension Willow)" thing in an episode during Season Sux, but absolutely nothing came of it beyond some raised voices. It was over and done with instantaneously. No consequences, no fallout, no catharsis, nothing.

Great writing, Joss and company.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

But I always figure he was the voice of Joss in the show. It explains a lot.

Oh, he was definitely Joss's avatar and Joss was clearly reliving his high school days. I have no doubt he thinks Xander is the greatest thing since sliced bread and we just don't appreciate his amazing nice guyness because we are just a bunch of mean girls and we should all worship Xander because he's just such a "nice guy" who is underappreciated and not the actual entitled, toxic dickhead he seems to be. 

[Spartan Girl]

36 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

They did address the whole "lying to Buffy (and by extension Willow)" thing in an episode during Season Sux, but absolutely nothing came of it beyond some raised voices. It was over and done with instantaneously. No consequences, no fallout, no catharsis, nothing.

Great writing, Joss and company.

My idea was way better, lol.

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

Next episode of Xander Harris is a Colossal Dick: him being "done with all that guilt" over cheating on Cordelia, in the episode right after he was caught.

Then he gets pissy with Willow because she tells him he can't be casually touching her while she wants to make things up to Oz.

Honestly, I never understood what Cordelia saw in him, and still don't. Nothing was ever good enough for him - he could never see Willow because he had the hots for Buffy, then he finally gets a girl who is way too good for him, and cheats on her with Willow. Then, even with Anya, he treats her like she's an idiot he just has to tolerate most of the time.

But I always figure he was the voice of Joss in the show. It explains a lot.

I don't know what ANY woman saw in Xander. Whenever he bitched about his "terrible taste in women" I'd go, "Gee, maybe it's because you're a toxic asshole that attracts other toxic assholes?"

His entitlement when it came touching (even platonically) "his" women resurfaced in the ugliest way when he berated Anya for sleeping with Spike, because it made him "sick to know that evil thing touch (her)." And his remorse for leading Anya on and leaving her at the altar lasted about five minutes, just like with Cordelia.

[kathyk24]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

To be fair, it seems consistent to Xander's character that this wouldn't give him a moment's pause if it meant he got some action.

I hated Xander because he was a slacker who didn't study hard enough to finish high school. I thought he was jealous of Buffy because she had powers and he didn't. He forgot that Buffy's powers put her life in danger. He was fortunate that Anya didn't kill him after he rejected her.

[Avabelle]

The mother on Chesapeake Shores.

She is the worst. Walks out on five kids, returns 15 years later and has a face like a smacked arse Anytime the two youngest kids don’t jump to let her back into their lives (the older 3 are inexplicably fine about it because she casually kept in touch with them). 

Anytime anyone takes her to task for not having any right to be upset she throws all her toys out of the Peak and refused to take ownership.

Im only on the first season so maybe things change but I doubt it somehow.

[Dr.OO7]

On 6/5/2020 at 12:22 PM, Katy M said:

That's how I feel about Urkel on Family Matters.  he was supposed to be a 1 epi character and he ended up taking over the whole show.

Not to mention his stalking and harassing of Laura that lasts for a DECADE and culminates in him finally getting her. What a great way to promote this kind of behavior.

I'm joining in with those who hate GH's Carly. I've hated her since she debuted on the show. The sad thing is, in her early years, she had a legitimate streak of vulnerability and self-loathing that kept me from hating her completely, but at some point, that was erased and she became this completely obnoxious bullying bitch who thought she was better than everyone and was ready to get into a fight with everyone. In particular, verbally and physically assaulting any woman who dared to even talk to a man she was involved with or interested in and branding them a slut or a tramp--making her a complete hypocrite too, because if anyone defined the word "slut", it was her.

[Katy M]

9 minutes ago, Camille said:

I'm joining in with those who hate GH's Carly. I've hated her since she debuted on the show. The sad thing is, in her early years, she had a legitimate streak of vulnerability and self-loathing that kept me from hating her completely, but at some point, that was erased and she became this completely obnoxious bullying bitch who thought she was better than everyone and was ready to get into a fight with everyone. In particular, verbally and physically assaulting any woman who dared to even talk to a man she was involved with or interested in and branding them a slut or a tramp--making her a complete hypocrite too, because if anyone defined the word "slut", it was her.

I agree.  I wouldn't go so far as to say there was a time when I really liked Carly.  But, she was much more 3 dimensional 100 years ago.  You could feel bad for her and at least understand where she was coming from.   I would also say there was a hope that she would grow as a person.  Especially when she came back after Michael was born.

[Spartan Girl]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I've really come to hate Gregory House. I love Hugh Laurie, but at some point the biting one liners wear on your nerves. There's only so much asshole you can take.