S13.E17: Friends and Enemas

[ivygirl]

2 minutes ago, nexxie said:

I’m actually enjoying the new blood on this show - the age of the grannies isn’t a problem but their usual shtick is realllly old!

It wouldn’t be so bad if they showed them doing something besides griping about the “grannies.”

[Mu Shu]

Just now, noveltylibrary said:

Oh brother  could that "reading" have been more staged?  Gina gets "you need to help Shannon".  Can they at least make it a little believable??

Gina needs to help herself before her conscious uncoupling with her cagey ex lands her ass in a single wide.  This dumb ass is getting played, in California no less. 

[noveltylibrary]

5 minutes ago, msblossom said:

I’m starting think the Housewives franchises are winding down and have run their course, with the exception of NYC. 

So true.  We aren't the only ones who feel this way, there are only 2 pages of comments here, compared to NYC which would have at least 10 by now.

[nexxie]

3 minutes ago, ivygirl said:

It wouldn’t be so bad if they showed them doing something besides griping about the “grannies.”

Yeah, the edit is all about the “old” housewives - wish they’d show more fun footage.

[Bronzedog]

I must be a really crappy friend.  I have known several people for decades and have never discussed enemas, ever.  Shit.

[mbaywife123]

These HoWives shows will be gone by "next " season.

The ones already in the "cans" will play but I doubt there will be anything further.

Too tired & to over produced. No fun anymore!

[mbaywife123]

Hey Andy, let's have some real fun, please have some of your book life revealed live to the viewing audience.

Scared sweetie???

[jaybird2]

33 minutes ago, msblossom said:

I’m starting think the Housewives franchises are winding down and have run their course, with the exception of NYC. 

i predicted that as soon as i heard about their 'home' shows!  by the way, the only good is jen's.

meant to say the only good show!

Edited November 13, 2018 by jaybird2

[FairyDusted]

This season was forgettable for me. Gina shows up in the OC only to announce a divorce a few episodes in?  

[Gem 10]

Well, I guess this is it.  There’s no more story lines, so they had to resort to stupidity.  Dressing up as old ladies was not funny.  They are no Lucy and Ethel.  What was the point of the enemas?  I don’t get it.

New young ones were on .. Gina’s friends?  Are the new taking over the old?  Tamballs and Vikie looks like they’ve had it.

Learn something new everyday.  I didn’t know you can take a tranquilizer, then wash it down with a goblet chaser of wine.  Isn’t that a little dangerous?

what a shit episode.  Can’t wait for N.Y.

[Marley]

Honestly the grandma party seemed more fun to me. Mm pasta and wine. The sequin party no thanks. Emily’s decorating was kind of tacky looking and dollar storeish to me lol.

His old is Emily? She’s always age shaming but like isn’t she just about their age? I find her really annoying. Her tea party sucked too.

Kelly is somehow my fave. She cracks me up and she’s cute with her daughter.

Gina can go. 

Tamra definitely did not forget to call Gina and tell her she’s not coming. She did that on purpose.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Marley

[njbchlover]

1 hour ago, TexasGal said:

Oh god, finally Vicki got casseroles.  

Yeah, sure Tamra, you forgot to call Gina about dinner.  

I don't care about what those casseroles were, but I am coveting Tamra's casserole dishes...I loved them!  :-)

[jaybird2]

emily is on wwhn now.  her face looks different

[njbchlover]

1 hour ago, LilaFowler said:

I dislike the ageism from the other women. Emily isn't really that much younger than the Tres Abuelas.

And, this is why I can't help liking Shannon!  That talking head line was hysterical!  

Shannon, just with Tamra and Vicki, seemed much more relaxed.  I think Emily and Gina in the mix make her feel uncomfortable, so she freezes them out.

[Emmeline]

44 minutes ago, msblossom said:

I’m starting think the Housewives franchises are winding down and have run their course, with the exception of NYC. 

I have been thinking the same thing myself.  Why else would they be starting all these home improvement shows.  We can see enough of that on HGTV.  

[njbchlover]

1 hour ago, noveltylibrary said:

wtf is a casita?  i hate when obsolete words are used that everyone's supposed to understand.

There seriously cannot be any other explanation.  None of this makes any sense.  And I learned the hard way men don't leave unless they found someone else.

A fancy name for a pool house or separate in-law suite.  In Hawaii, it is often referred to as an "ohana" - a small, separate building on the same property as a larger home.  It's actually Spanish/Mexican, meaning "small home", as in "casa" for home/house.

Edited November 13, 2018 by njbchlover

[UsernameFatigue]

They really need to change the name of this franchise to The Real Divorcees of Orange County.  I can't remember the last time a season didn't revolve around a cast member's divorce. Or multiple cast members, as is the case this season. 

I was howling at the tea leaf lady reading Tamra's cup. She seemed unaware that Tamra's husband has had serious health problems. Until Tamra asks her outright if Eddie is going to die. Tea lady assures her that Eddie isn't going to die, but they might separate for awhile. That's not good enough for Tamra, as in her TH she is still talking about Eddie dying, and how she could not go on if that happened. I actually think Tamra would love the attention and sympathy she would get from being a widow. She has already been married three times and divorced twice, so where is the fun of doing that again? Widowhood would be a whole new story line for her. 

I also laughed when the reader came up with the "Sh" for Shannon. I assume she has watched the show some time in the last several years. You don't need to be a psychic to know there is someone they know whose name starts with "Sh". Where does Bravo come up with these people?  

I loved Tamra showing up to Vicki's in curlers and a housecoat. I actually wasn't sure who it was at first. Good on the three of them for having a good time, and not taking themselves too seriously. Then we have the newbies and Kelly, once again fixated on the oldies, and not having a good time themselves. I would much rather have been at Vicki's house that with the newbies. I loved Steve sitting in the living room making a comment now and then. With regards to Vicki drinking wine, it looks like Steve poured something like cranberry juice into Vicko's goblet, then just added a bit of wine to it.  I will add that though Vicki doesn't look like Vicki without the makeup, she looked much younger and cuter sans makeup. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[njbchlover]

17 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

Well, I guess this is it.  There’s no more story lines, so they had to resort to stupidity.  Dressing up as old ladies was not funny.  They are no Lucy and Ethel.  What was the point of the enemas?  I don’t get it.

New young ones were on .. Gina’s friends?  Are the new taking over the old?  Tamballs and Vikie looks like they’ve had it.

Learn something new everyday.  I didn’t know you can take a tranquilizer, then wash it down with a goblet chaser of wine.  Isn’t that a little dangerous?

what a shit episode.  Can’t wait for N.Y.

It wasn't really wine - Steve made Vicki a "mocktail" of cranberry juice and sparkling water.

[UsernameFatigue]

8 hours ago, njbchlover said:

It wasn't really wine - Steve made Vicki a "mocktail" of cranberry juice and sparkling water.

Ah, I think you are right. I was thinking it was a bit of wine he added at the end, but it did look like a sparkling water bottle. 

I love that in the preview they show Shannon telling Emily that maybe she is the one who is mentally ill. That is what I said last week. Emily has a lot of nerve talking about someone else, when she still hasn't dealt with her miscarriage and issues of not being able to carry a child to term. And her insistence that she needs to have a 4th child, despite the fact that her husband isn't interested and already has 5 kids. Add in her childhood with her mother, and Emily to me appears to be the most unstable of the howives.

Edited November 13, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[pinky33]

This season really is a snoozefest. I find myself leaving the room to get a snack and use the bathroom without pausing the show. I could not care less what I've missed...if it's anything interesting, I'll read it here. And, I am SURE it will be way more entertaining reading here than watching it happen on the show.

[FairyDusted]

4 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

It wasn't really wine - Steve made Vicki a "mocktail" of cranberry juice and sparkling water.

This^^^^ I was hoping she wasn't playing THAT dumb. I don't believe they all haven't had a Rx for Xanax in the last few years. Not buying it at all.

[ninjago]

1 hour ago, Mindthinkr said:

I’m seeing the clear division between the OG’s and the newbies. 

Andy needs to sit the Three Abuelas down and tell them either they need to give whoever else is in the cast a chance and sincerely attempt to interact civilly next season or they are out.  

He wouldn't get rid of Vicky, but I think he would axe Tamra and Shannon.  There is no show if the three of them just band together and refuse to let anyone else in.

[Jets4274]

I don't agree with the ageism but I also don't think that Shannon, Vicki or Tamra are helping the situation by acting as though they're too old to do anything but drink together and bitch about people and things.  They're not old but they're aging themselves, in my opinion.  I'm Kelly's age so I ride the fence on which group I'd fit in.  The party did appear a bit boring which probably had to do with Gina's friends.  No future cast additions in that mix.

Shannon has always had issues with the new girls I think more because the new Housewives continue to get younger as she ages and she doesn't want to (or care to) have anything in common with them.  

I don't see how going on an antidepressant to get through a difficult period equals mental illness. There's nothing wrong with doing what you have to do - I've been there.  Shannon needs to understand the difference.   It's sure as hell better than resorting to drinking or yelling at everybody. That being said, I wish that Shannon would stop talking about Emily threatening to "kill" Kelly as being a sign of mental illness.  It's a figure of speech.  Find something else to harp on.

Perhaps the editors did a job on taking out Shannon asking Gina about what was said about her in Jamaica but it came off that Gina started the shit stirring by telling her what she did.  

Enjoyed seeing Kelly with Michael at the play.  They appear to be really good parents and it's good that they get along as well as they do for Jolie's sake, if not their own.  

Edited November 13, 2018 by Jets4274

[breezy424]

Well, Gina and Emily just went far down my list with the age shaming.  Some women can be really bitches to other women and this was a prime example.  And just when I started to kind of liking Kelly....  Nope.  Put them out to pasture?  Wow.  I can't tell you how pissed off this makes me when other 'women' define other 'women' by their age.  I also don't think this is the first time because it was probably an inspiration for them to have the party in the first place.

I'd rather be at the party where I can be comfortable than be at the pretentious sequin party.

Didn't they do the cup reading on another franchise?  I'm thinking RHNY?

The enema thing was totally fake IMO.  But it did make me smile. 

Maybe it's me but Vicks looks no different from before her face lift.  Leave it to Vicks to keep a life insurance policy on her exes. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by breezy424

[Misslindsey]

I thought both parties looked lame. I have the extremely unpopular opinion that I do not mind Gina or Emily. I would rather watch Gina, Emily, or Kelly than the Shannon, Tamra, or Vicki. I find their schtick so tired. Vicki will never be redeemed for me. I do not care that Shannon, Tamra and Vicki are friends again. I only somewhat liked Shannon and Tamra when they were on the outs with Vicki. 

I am barely hanging on this season. It was so dull. I probably will not tune in next season unless there is some major overhaul with the cast. Though I doubt Vicki, Shannon, or Tamra will go anywhere.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Misslindsey

[Gem 10]

17 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

And, this is why I can't help liking Shannon!  That talking head line was hysterical!  

Shannon, just with Tamra and Vicki, seemed much more relaxed.  I think Emily and Gina in the mix make her feel uncomfortable, so she freezes them out.

 

29 minutes ago, njbchlover said:

And, this is why I can't help liking Shannon!  That talking head line was hysterical!  

Shannon, just with Tamra and Vicki, seemed much more relaxed.  I think Emily and Gina in the mix make her feel uncomfortable, so she freezes them out.

The younger new girls do not seem to mix well or have too much in common with Vikie, Tamra and Shannon.  Kelly is more their style.  I think Andy likes Gina very much, so she’ll probably be back.  I don’t know about Tamra.

[Gem 10]

11 minutes ago, Misslindsey said:

I thought both parties looked lame. I have the extremely unpopular opinion that I do not mind Gina or Emily. I would rather watch Gina, Emily, or Kelly than the Shannon, Tamra, or Vicki. I find their schtick so tired. Vicki will never be redeemed for me. I do not care that Shannon, Tamra and Vicki are friends again. I only somewhat liked Shannon and Tamra when they were on the outs with Vicki. 

I am barely hanging on this season. It was so dull. I probably will not tune in next season unless there is some major overhaul with the cast. Though I doubt Vicki, Shannon, or Tamra will go anywhere.

I know Andy loves Vikie.  Tamra has been there forever and has said and done it all.  She’s been the troublemaker from the start.  Maybe she will go.  I’m getting used to Gina and Emily for some reason, and I’m liking Kelly more and more.  Who knows?

[mbaywife123]

I am eating an It's - It and going to bed.

My big orange cat Ruby is chasing his fake mousie around like a lunatic. 

Mr. Mbay is already in bed and I can't wait to snuggle next to him in a few minutes.

Night all!

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, mbaywife123 said:

These HoWives shows will be gone by "next " season.

The ones already in the "cans" will play but I doubt there will be anything further.

Too tired & to over produced. No fun anymore!

A man’s opinion.  My husband said, passing through,” is that all these housewives do .. just fight”?  He’s right.  Every show is fighting, screaming, drinking, etc. over and over again.

[endure]

The older Gina gets the crasser she gets!

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, njbchlover said:

It wasn't really wine - Steve made Vicki a "mocktail" of cranberry juice and sparkling water.

You are right.  Cranberry juice and sparkling water in the green bottle.  I just watched it over again.  Lol.

[endure]

2 hours ago, ivygirl said:

And the Not So Real Fortune Tellers...

I mean, who DOESN’T know a “SH”? And who here thinks she wasn’t fed that stuff to begin with? Reminds me of the fortune teller lady on Mama’s Family, who got all her intel from Vint on their rides to Mama’s house.

And the SH comes up in Ginas reading, like they are real close and Gina would not have any desire to help Shannon and nor would Shannon be accepting any help from Gina if she were offering lol.  I wonder what the reader charged for those 30 sec readings?

[endure]

2 hours ago, FairyDusted said:

This season was forgettable for me. Gina shows up in the OC only to announce a divorce a few episodes in?  

And did we ever even see her supposed husband?

[FairyDusted]

11 minutes ago, endure said:

And did we ever even see her supposed husband?

Not that I recall. Though I could have drifted off and missed it. The whole deal is shade city.

[ivygirl]

2 hours ago, Bronzedog said:

I must be a really crappy friend.  I have known several people for decades and have never discussed enemas, ever.  Shit.

I see what you did there, Bronzedog. Good thing you didn’t throw in a turd third poop word...

[yourmomiseasy]

4 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

There isn’t insurable interest  in an ex with no dependent children.  She had the policy prior to the divorce.  I’m not sure it’s valid, though.  

I'd like to believe that the Ickster knows whether the insurance policy is legal and valid since she sells insurance, but it's her, so ?‍♀️

4 hours ago, noveltylibrary said:

wtf is a casita?  i hate when obsolete words are used that everyone's supposed to understand.

There seriously cannot be any other explanation.  None of this makes any sense.  And I learned the hard way men don't leave unless they found someone else.

It isn't obsolete or even obscure in California.  It literally means little house and most people in Southern California know at least that much Spanish.  It isn't uncommon for it to be used to describe a pool house, guest house, or MIL quarters, especially in Real Estate listings because agents love to make shit sound fancy.

[MajorNelson]

2 hours ago, Jets4274 said:

Enjoyed seeing Kelly with Michael at the play.  They appear to be really good parents and it's good that they get along as well as they do for Jolie's sake, if not their own.  

 

This was the only redeeming part of the show.  Nice.

Edited November 13, 2018 by MajorNelson

[MajorNelson]

1 hour ago, endure said:

And did we ever even see her supposed husband?

(re Gina's husband Matt)

Allegedly his employer (supposedly Pimco) forbid him from being on it.

Can you imagine?  Not wanting to be associated with these screeching, self-absorbed, flighty, nimrods?  But how could they see this franchise as a trainwreck and not Bravo?  

[sheetmoss]

Had a co-worker yrs back buy a life (maybe term) ins policy on her aging mom--who didn't know, so it would cover the funeral.

Heard of employers buying it on employees as well - you die they collect

[sheetmoss]

10 minutes ago, MajorNelson said:

(re Gina's husband Matt)

Allegedly his employer (supposedly Pimco) forbid him from being on it.

Can you imagine?  Not wanting to be associated with these screeching, self-absorbed, flighty, nimrods?  But how could they see this franchise as a trainwreck and not Bravo?  

If memory serves, RHNYC Bethenny's  old ex from  first season shows was fired  for appearing in the series

    Didn't Ramona"s daughter Avery's school have issues w/the show too?

Edited November 13, 2018 by sheetmoss

[VedaPierce]

7 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

I thought both parties looked lame. I have the extremely unpopular opinion that I do not mind Gina or Emily. I would rather watch Gina, Emily, or Kelly than the Shannon, Tamra, or Vicki. I find their schtick so tired. Vicki will never be redeemed for me. I do not care that Shannon, Tamra and Vicki are friends again. I only somewhat liked Shannon and Tamra when they were on the outs with Vicki. 

I am barely hanging on this season. It was so dull. I probably will not tune in next season unless there is some major overhaul with the cast. Though I doubt Vicki, Shannon, or Tamra will go anywhere.

 

Yes. Schtick for sure. I hate forced laughter and try-harding at showing me how so very fun and happy they are. These three do it all the time and think they're a riot. It's inauthentic. Maybe it's me. Maybe I just expect more from entertainment...I'm entertained so much more on these boards than by these broads. And age has nothing to do with it. Not a single one of them is funny or clever or talented or anything that warrants them being paid to be on a tv show. The Vanderpump idiots are a million times more riveting. So are NY, and they're the same age more or less....I could watch Ramoner fighting on the phone in the street while walking her dog all day long. Now THAT'S gold.

Edited November 13, 2018 by VedaPierce

[queenjen]

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

And I thought the casita was on their property? Like a pool house type of thing. They're actually paying for 3 separate homes? What does that man DO?

 

I"m still not getting the casita. I thought it was supposed to be the place Gina goes to on the weekend that Matt is in the house with the children. So why is she talking about the kids coming to the casita? And why is she decorating it and worrying about breaking stuff in it (and not having Matt there to fix it) if she's there for 2 days a week max? How many throw cushions does it take to call a studio apartment a casita anyway?? A virtual tour for her mother took all of .3 seconds.

This hasn't been the best of seasons, but it's far from the worst and it's currently aeons better than Atlanta. I can't believe I"ve come round to Kelly Dodd. I thought Emily and Gina were a waste of space, but THIS episode, we've actually got a fresh dynamic emerging: sequins vs abuelos, with Kelly Dodd swinging between both camps. It may not play over far into next season, but it's going to make the finale and the reunion spark. Plus the season long pummeling of Shannon Beador will end at least in some very righteous indignation at the least from her. And guarantee Shannon at least another 2 seasons on this show. And I'm glad. I continue to root for Shannon. 

And I'm so SO pumped that we get to see a 'Simpson Party' for the finale! I can't think of anyone I'd rather see leading festivities than Daisy the Cow Emily Simpson! she's read 'party machine' to me since she first came aboard. And especially last episode in the peasant dress with the baby box. Somewhere, Kate Chastain is plotting to steal her fingernail clippings and cast off hair after that tablescape at Social. Emily baying about how FUN and EMPOWERING a femme fatale party is going to be but never quite selling it to the table. Then we get the sad little picture of Emily and Pari and probably Shireen standing in front of a Las Vegas sign from one of her previous extravaganzas and the name dropping of Cirque du Soleil performers. Kyle Richards has stopped doing white parties seasons ago. Kate and Kyle have covered effortlessly anything Emily could possibly do for this Femme Fatale party.

[queenjen]

8 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Learn something new everyday.  I didn’t know you can take a tranquilizer, then wash it down with a goblet chaser of wine.  Isn’t that a little dangerous?

 

MJ did it on the just aired Shahs finale while getting ready for her own wedding. I believe she's been loaded like this most of her life. I  don't see it ending well either. 

[CrinkleCutCat]

Gina doesn’t really want that divorce, she’s just trying to save face.... did you see how happy she was to tell Emily about Matt calling her 6 times and having phone sex? That is the involvement of a woman trying to get her man back.

[Mindthinkr]

9 hours ago, mbaywife123 said:

Hey Andy, let's have some real fun, please have some of your book life revealed live to the viewing audience.

Scared sweetie???

They should have a dinner party and then a surprise guest shows up...Andy. Not a reunion questioning Andy, but an Andy that has a few drinks with them and injects some life into this show. 

[nexxie]

Can’t imagine anyone renting Gina their casita knowing there would be film crews and lots of guests - maybe she didn’t tell them.

[Baltimore Betty]

"Casita" is my new drinking game word.

28 minutes ago, CrinkleCutCat said:

Gina doesn’t really want that divorce, she’s just trying to save face.... did you see how happy she was to tell Emily about Matt calling her 6 times and having phone sex? That is the involvement of a woman trying to get her man back.

That guy is doing a mind fuck on her and she does not see it.  

[Gem 10]

40 minutes ago, queenjen said:

MJ did it on the just aired Shahs finale while getting ready for her own wedding. I believe she's been loaded like this most of her life. I  don't see it ending well either. 

That’s right .. she did.  They all drink like fish when they party, which they think is so much fun.  Then they pass out.  I heard she’s pregnant already in real life.  No more drinking for her, I hope.

7 hours ago, endure said:

And did we ever even see her supposed husband?

I read his Company doesn’t want him to have any association with the show.  That’s why he is invisible.

[Mu Shu]

6 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I'd like to believe that the Ickster knows whether the insurance policy is legal and valid since she sells insurance, but it's her, so ?‍♀️

It isn't obsolete or even obscure in California.  It literally means little house and most people in Southern California know at least that much Spanish.  It isn't uncommon for it to be used to describe a pool house, guest house, or MIL quarters, especially in Real Estate listings because agents love to make shit sound fancy.

Insurable interest has to have one of three elements for life products-Love (Finacee or spouse), Blood (Family), or business (Insuring a key business partner).  Unless Donn pays her alimony, she’s failed the first.  He’s no longer family, so she’s failed the second.  Unless they have business together,  and losing him would cause her financial stress,she’s failed the third.  

That casita is about as legit as Donns life insurance.  It’s a fucking guest suite meant for a short visit.  But the clothing rack with toiletries piled on the bottom rack was a nice touch.  This is OC skid row.  This poop face is living like a college student.   Nothing remotely enviable about Gina’s life. 

[lamujerdecente]

1 hour ago, queenjen said:

I"m still not getting the casita. I thought it was supposed to be the place Gina goes to on the weekend that Matt is in the house with the children. So why is she talking about the kids coming to the casita? And why is she decorating it and worrying about breaking stuff in it (and not having Matt there to fix it) if she's there for 2 days a week max? How many throw cushions does it take to call a studio apartment a casita anyway?? A virtual tour for her mother took all of .3 seconds.

This hasn't been the best of seasons, but it's far from the worst and it's currently aeons better than Atlanta. I can't believe I"ve come round to Kelly Dodd. I thought Emily and Gina were a waste of space, but THIS episode, we've actually got a fresh dynamic emerging: sequins vs abuelos, with Kelly Dodd swinging between both camps. It may not play over far into next season, but it's going to make the finale and the reunion spark. Plus the season long pummeling of Shannon Beador will end at least in some very righteous indignation at the least from her. And guarantee Shannon at least another 2 seasons on this show. And I'm glad. I continue to root for Shannon. 

And I'm so SO pumped that we get to see a 'Simpson Party' for the finale! I can't think of anyone I'd rather see leading festivities than Daisy the Cow Emily Simpson! she's read 'party machine' to me since she first came aboard. And especially last episode in the peasant dress with the baby box. Somewhere, Kate Chastain is plotting to steal her fingernail clippings and cast off hair after that tablescape at Social. Emily baying about how FUN and EMPOWERING a femme fatale party is going to be but never quite selling it to the table. Then we get the sad little picture of Emily and Pari and probably Shireen standing in front of a Las Vegas sign from one of her previous extravaganzas and the name dropping of Cirque du Soleil performers. Kyle Richards has stopped doing white parties seasons ago. Kate and Kyle have covered effortlessly anything Emily could possibly do for this Femme Fatale party.

This show is a snoozefest but it gave me the energy I needed to start dinner prep and my vegan meal prep. I wanted to get away from the bloated sow. This franchise has always been the tacky nouveau rich so to speak and with the exception of heather , it has been. So not surprised Emily's taste sucks for the most part. New York city has always been better stylewise . I think I am done watching this show. 

Also why is the bloated sow risking her life and lying about surgeries? This bitch is vile and too stupid to live. And clearly she's still alive and kicking because even Satan has standards who he allows to rent rooms in hell. Take note Andy. 

Edited November 13, 2018 by lamujerdecente