S09.E05: What Comes After

[Bryce Lynch]

I don't see why Rick couldn't have backed up a few yards and fired the shot to ignite the TNT from outside the blast zone.  

The show has become completely ridiculous.

[CletusMusashi]

On 11/4/2018 at 11:48 PM, Nashville said:

Posted this in the live discussion thread, but wanted to bring it over here as well - concerning the A/B scale to which Jadis and the helicopter folks constantly refer:

—————-

In *this* specific context - and regarding how Jadis kept trying to tip walkers into face-nibbles with both Negan and FP - I’m wondering if:

• A = “lightly” ZV-infected; bitten, but not yet turned.
• B = not ZV-infected.

I don't know. Collecting A's would be more trouble than it's worth. I mean, if you've already captured a bunch of B's, just catch a zombie and have it bite them. Gives you better data for experiments, since you know exactly when they were bitten, plus there's no risk of them dying and turning in the helicopter.

I think it means leaders and followers. Which means you'd think she'd tell them that Rick was an A, but she doesn't want him running around in the field coming back to his people. 

And... I think I just now truly understand this week's title. "What Comes After?" "I lie with him."

Edited November 6, 2018 by CletusMusashi

[nodorothyparker]

STOP talking about comic spoilers.  Seriously, don't.  If it wasn't in the episode, it doesn't belong here.  If you just have to talk about what happens in the comics or cast comings and goings beyond what you've seen onscreen, we have a Spoilers and Speculation thread for that.  Bringing it here will result in it be removed.

[CletusMusashi]

I've said for a long time that the show either needed to get way better or slightly worse. I grade things on a scale of Negative Ten to Positive Ten, with a zero being the score that has the least entertainment value. Despite occasional fun bits like Oceanside or The Kingdom, most episodes of the Negan era have hovered around a Negative Three. So changing it all up probably can't hurt. If only they'd done it sooner, instead of wasting all our time with "Oh, no, what are we going to do about the Saviors? Hey, look, there's a fast-forward button? Cool. Problem solved."

The bad news is that it runs the danger of being like that last season of Scrubs that was almost all about the new interns. They weren't even bad characters. We might have liked them on a spin-off, but on the original show they were a constant reminder of how much we missed the earlier seasons. But the good news is that we've been missing the earlier seasons for years now. So just about any kind of switchup will probably be an improvement. But the other bad news is that we'll still be stuck with Negan. Can't they just give him to the magic helicopter? Tune in next week, as his tailor makes a bunch of little black Robert Palmer dresses for Michonne, Maggie, and Daryl.

Speaking of magic, I believe that was Adam West's horse that Rick was riding. Nothing could explain its survival except for having been doused with Zombie-Repellant Bat Spay.

[apollonia666]

5 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Rick wasn't blown that far away. He fell into the water and drifted down river to where Jadis was standing.

So he took a dip in zombie soup with an open gut wound! Nothing to worry about at all.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, Nashville said:

When Negan was moaning and wailing “Kill me PLEASE!!!” to Maggie, did anybody else hear a certain ring of “Please, Br'er Fox, don't fling me in dat dere briarpatch over yonder!”?

Oh yeah.  I think Negan was totally using reverse psychology on her. At least on a well written show, that would be the case.  Of course the writers will probably create a ridiculous, tedious redemption arc for Negan, so we are probably supposed to take Negan to have been sincere.   

[wait.what]

Didn’t rick have a machine gun and was unable to hit Negan from across the street?

but now with 1/2 his blood drained from his body, hallucinating, weak, he can hit a a few sticks of dynamite with his pistol? 

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

I don't know, Jadis saving Rick so Andrew Lincoln can make cameos seemed cheesier than queso, but I'm kinda glad they left the door open.

Damn, Judith's gun was bigger than her. How the hell did the kick not put her into that tree?

It was kind of  ridiculous to see a little girl shooting a .357 magnum pistol.  But, the weight of the gun actually reduces the felt recoil.  A smaller pistol shooting the same rounds would be even worse.   

[ClareWalks]

I think we saw Jadis back with the group in the time jump, I would love to know how the fuck she gets away with essentially helping Rick fake his death. It makes zero sense. Rick would never abandon Michonne, his daughter, and his brothers/sisters (Daryl et al) like that. And if Jadis told the others what really happened, can you even imagine them not going after him? Never. And if Jadis just helped Rick get away and never said a peep, that is seriously cold-blooded. I wish Rick had died a hero's death. It would have made much more sense with how the whole episode was setting it up.

[catrox14]

42 minutes ago, wait.what said:

Didn’t rick have a machine gun and was unable to hit Negan from across the street?

but now with 1/2 his blood drained from his body, hallucinating, weak, he can hit a a few sticks of dynamite with his pistol? 

Rick regained his aim a few episodes back if I remember correctly. And TBF, Rick never had problems with his aim until Negan developed the heaviest plot armor I've ever seen which also apparently not only let the bullets ricochet,  but also redirect them before they even hit him.

[Dobian]

I said before the episode that this was my last one, and that hasn't changed.  I give Kang credit, she inherited a train wreck from Gimple and did an admirable job.  But Rick's helicopter rescue ruined what could have been one of the greatest TWD episodes of all time and was the last fake-out I can handle watching.  This is a show on the downside of its lifespan but instead of focusing on making it the best show they can while bringing some closure, they want to make TWD: The Next Generation and let Rick have his own separate TWD movies.  I guess this is supposed to be like Star Trek where you had the new shows while TOS did their movies.  I'm just not very interested in an expanded TWD universe.  For me, the premise just doesn't sustain it and it will just keep going in circles while zombies walk around indefinitely.  No thanks.  I enjoyed the ride, but time to move on.

[Johnny Dollar]

I assume “A” and “B” have some level of immunity so that’s why Rick was so important to rescue. 

When “TWD-TNG” has its official premiere next week, will the viewer still be expected to believe that 15+ year old fuel is still good or that zombies who haven’t eaten in a decade still pose a threat or haven’t literally dissolved into dust?  

[CrashTextDummie]

Ah well, it was an embarrassment. I read the AV Club review and it basically covers everything that was wrong with this episode so I'm not going to belabor the point.

What I will say in the shows favor is that they managed to deliver a piece of striking imagery that was far more poignant than anything I remember ever seeing from TWD: Rick Grimes standing in a sea of dead people. People, not walkers. Zombie fiction (TWD included) tends to gloss over the fact that all those hordes of the anonymous living dead are made of the previously living. On a show where no dead body stays that way for very long, seeing that mass of humanity lost was a weirdly pleasant and soothing visual.

The 6 year time-skip (or however long it'll be) means we're gonna skip all that boring society-building stuff the show has been about this season (and improved for it, mind you) after all, but whatever. At least I still have hope that Tara is gonna die off-screen in the interim.

[Boofish]

6 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

I'll be on my island of one looking forward to seeing where this goes.   Having the Walkers evolving and seeing the Whispers and the rest of what is going on in the world piques my interest.  Yet at the same time I can't stand Fear the Walking Dead and can barely get into the 3rd season.  So I'll be disappointed if they fuck this up.

I still think it's a shame that they had to off Carl and now Judith will be the new generation?   The Shane scenes were everything. 

You are not alone; I am here with you. 

If Herschel season 2 shotgun can fire off 40 rounds before he needs ammo then dammit a helicopter can save Rick. I suspended belief when I started watching a show about a virus that turned people into zombies so if they insult my intelligence every now and then it's the price I'm willing to pay LOL

Edited November 5, 2018 by Boofish

[natyxg]

11 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I said before the episode that this was my last one, and that hasn't changed.  I give Kang credit, she inherited a train wreck from Gimple and did an admirable job.  But Rick's helicopter rescue ruined what could have been one of the greatest TWD episodes of all time and was the last fake-out I can handle watching.  This is a show on the downside of its lifespan but instead of focusing on making it the best show they can while bringing some closure, they want to make TWD: The Next Generation and let Rick have his own separate TWD movies.  I guess this is supposed to be like Star Trek where you had the new shows while TOS did their movies.  I'm just not very interested in an expanded TWD universe.  For me, the premise just doesn't sustain it and it will just keep going in circles while zombies walk around indefinitely.  No thanks.  I enjoyed the ride, but time to move on.

I haven't watched this yet because I watch on Netflix, but I've been keeping an eye on how they got rid of Rick and got the gist of it.  And I agree.  I would have preferred to see Rick die in an epic story that culminated in an epic episode. Instead they gave an "ending" that was a mixture of whimpy and cop-out. The whole steel bar thing was beyond anticlimantic and then taking him away in the helicopter... what the fuck? He's going to be missing for literal years while Michonne raises Judith? What the fuck? And all of this just because of greed, because they want to keep milking this.

I also agree that they should accept that the show is in decline and just focus on coming up with the best story they can to close it up. But greed is a terrible thing, and most of the time it's what ruins shows. This idea of a TWD "universe" or whatever instead of making me excited makes me feel exhaustion. Can you imagine how long they want to keep dragging things out? I don't know if i'll have the energy. This show just isn't fun enough.  It hasn't been for years. I keep watching because I don't like to leave shows halfway through, but damn, they make it hard.

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It was kind of  ridiculous to see a little girl shooting a .357 magnum pistol.  But, the weight of the gun actually reduces the felt recoil.  A smaller pistol shooting the same rounds would be even worse.   

Yeah I hadn't commented on that but it was nuts.  When I was nine I was shooting .22 rifles with almost no recoil.  It wasn't until I was about 13 that I shot a handgun.  A nine year old girl shooting a hand cannon, and accurately no less, is crazy.

[seacliffsal]

So I'll admit it-I teared up a few times during the episode.  I really enjoyed the hallucinations (and cried during the Herschel one) as well as Rick's resolve to try to save his family.  It's too bad the producers ruined their relationship with Chandler Riggs because having an hallucination between Carl and Rick would have been epic-even their walking off together to heaven would have been amazing.  I did not like the helicopter rescue, but can live with it.

What I didn't like was the 6-year time jump.  It totally robs the show of the reactions to Rick's death and the ensuring decisions that would be crucial to a coherent story line.  Would they continue their alliances and trade programs?  Would they develop a legal and judicial system?  How would they decide leaders?  How would some of the characters handle their grief?  And, how would the "traitors" (Maggie, Daryl, and Jesus who made an agreement last season that Rick had to go) feel after the realization of just how much they lost when they lost Rick?  Although the idea of Judith living up to Daryl's nickname for her after she was born is interesting to me, I anticipate not watching any more of this show.  To me, Rick and Carl WERE the story, and with the end of Rick, it's the end of the story for me.  Now, if I hear that the new episodes are amazing, I may catch the show to see if I agree.  

6 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Yeah I hadn't commented on that but it was nuts.  When I was nine I was shooting .22 rifles with almost no recoil.  It wasn't until I was about 13 that I shot a handgun.  A nine year old girl shooting a hand cannon, and accurately no less, is crazy.

I know this will sound bizarre, but I was that 9-year old girl.  When my dad went hunting once a year (pheasants) we would go with him and he would take us shooting.  I remember when I was in the third grade there was also a police officer who was in the group.  He laughed as he saw my dad take my sister and me target shooting and bet that I couldn't handle my dad's 45; the 45 may be much less of a gun than the one she had-I don't know the differences.  Yep, I shot the can and his face completely fell.  I always liked target shooting with my dad's revolver when I was young.  I still have pretty good aim (have gone target shooting once in the last several decades...).  So, it happens.  I did not doubt Judith's ability at all.  I was surprised that they still had Rick's, Carl's, the hat.

[tricknasty]

Do the show runners have a hatred of the Carl/Lori characters and a hard-on for Shane? The lead character has his life flash before his eyes, but his dead wife/son are no shows? I hate this f*cking show.

[cursethedarkness]

Negan, the Master Manipulator, won again. He knew Maggie hated him enough to wish him as much pain as she suffered, so he concocted that tearful "I want to die" malarkey, knowing she would give him the exact opposite of anything he wanted. I fully expected him to start giggling as Maggie was leaving his cell.

[Lady Iris]

Is Jadis/Anne gone now too? Was this her last ep as well? I suppose now that the dust is settling here, where was Rick taken to anyways?

It was so emotional seeing Hershel again, *smh* he and Rick just wrung my heart out.

[EllipticalAddicted]

In this one instance, I don't care what plot holes and nonsense the writers made the viewers endure, I am at peace knowing Rick Grimes lives!   

 

This new cast reminds me of when Glee tried to extend and rejuvenate their show by introducing a new and younger cast.    The show was already tanking, but trying to replicate the previous success by simple introducing new blood was just bad.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

5 hours ago, Ouisch said:

That was supposed to be a six year time jump at the end? Carol's hair grew longer than it ever has in the first eight seasons and turns completely white, while Daryl looked exactly the same.

Daryl is well protected by his dirt layer.  Six more years of not bathing.  We'd have to scrub him clean to see how he aged. 

[natyxg]

7 minutes ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

In this one instance, I don't care what plot holes and nonsense the writers made the viewers endure, I am at peace knowing Rick Grimes lives!   

 

This new cast reminds me of when Glee tried to extend and rejuvenate their show by introducing a new and younger cast.  The show was already tanking, but trying to replicate the previous success by simple introducing new blood was just bad.

That is exactly what they're doing. They even fast forward a few years so that Judith could be the new Carl.

[heisenberg]

9 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Yes, cauterize it with all the rust and debris from the rebar left inside. Gee, that could kill a person!

I was just doing some sarcasm.  Or else he would also have to do a flip to get both sides done!  :-)

[walnutqueen]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It was kind of  ridiculous to see a little girl shooting a .357 magnum pistol.  But, the weight of the gun actually reduces the felt recoil.  A smaller pistol shooting the same rounds would be even worse.   

Little girl, big gun.  Only a male would make a fantasy thereof.

 

59 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Yeah I hadn't commented on that but it was nuts.  When I was nine I was shooting .22 rifles with almost no recoil.  It wasn't until I was about 13 that I shot a handgun.  A nine year old girl shooting a hand cannon, and accurately no less, is crazy.

The first time I ever held a weapon was a Lew Horton Special recessed 44 Magnum nickel plated revolver.  My wannabe boyfriend shot at a soda can, one-handed, and so did I.  He is long gone, but the 44 isn't  ...

Mr. Stoopid forgot about Xmas, and put his most favorite gun in a paper bag under my pillow for my prezzie - Boy, was he gobsmacked when I kept it!  :-)  

[Blindfox]

I watched this show years ago, and there were a lot of things that I wasn’t happy about, but the final straw was when they ended one season on a cliffhanger with a major character dying - but didn’t bother to tell you who. (Glenn, of course.) I don’t like to feel manipulated as a viewer. So what happens? I tune in to the last show for Rick Grimes, and I feel manipulated all over again. All that build up... just to sort of fizzle out at the end. As soon as the bridge blew up and we didn’t see a body, I wondered if they were going to pull some tired TV cliche of the hero not being dead, and sure enough. So that was... a cheat. I’m so glad I stopped watching this show.

[enoughcats]

1 hour ago, CrashTextDummie said:

What I will say in the shows favor is that they managed to deliver a piece of striking imagery that was far more poignant than anything I remember ever seeing from TWD: Rick Grimes standing in a sea of dead people.

That imagery was straight from Gone with the Wind.  Same City, same acres of dead.  The only thing missing was Rick wiping his forehead with the back of his hand. (That and the GwtW corpses were laid out systematically so they could be idnetified.) (And GwtW's green screen had Atlanta in the hazy background.)

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I assume “A” and “B” have some level of immunity so that’s why Rick was so important to rescue. 

When “TWD-TNG” has its official premiere next week, will the viewer still be expected to believe that 15+ year old fuel is still good or that zombies who haven’t eaten in a decade still pose a threat or haven’t literally dissolved into dust?  

I am guessing A and B must have something to do with personality type.  Didn't Jadis think Gabriel was a B, but find out he was an A when he refused to go along?

I agree that the gasoline would be shot all those years later.

As for the walkers, we already suspend disbelief to accept that a virus wakes up part of their brain and allows their nervous system to work even with severe trauma, and no food or water for months or years. I don't think it is that much bigger of a stretch to believe that the magic virus somehow keeps their bones intact.

[Bryce Lynch]

46 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

Little girl, big gun.  Only a male would make a fantasy thereof.

 

The first time I ever held a weapon was a Lew Horton Special recessed 44 Magnum nickel plated revolver.  My wannabe boyfriend shot at a soda can, one-handed, and so did I.  He is long gone, but the 44 isn't  ...

Mr. Stoopid forgot about Xmas, and put his most favorite gun in a paper bag under my pillow for my prezzie - Boy, was he gobsmacked when I kept it!  :-)  

The show runners have often shown themselves to have the mentality of 13 year old boys, especially with Negan's constant, unfunny, penis and poop jokes.  But, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this and say they were showing that Judith was carrying on the Grimes legacy with the python and the hat.   

I assume we will also see her coming up with harebrained schemes and wildly fluctuating between being a naive pacifist and a paranoid war monger, from episode to episode.  

[cursethedarkness]

I have to admit, the imagery in this last ep was pretty impressive:

Rick standing amidst a sea of corpses, and;

Walkers, on fire, tumbling off the bridge.

Well done, CGI Department!

[walnutqueen]

EVERYTHING is a stretch with this fucking show.

Abandon Hope ...

 

3 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The show runners have often shown themselves to have the mentality of 13 year old boys, especially with Negan's constant, unfunny, penis and poop jokes.  But, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this and say they were showing that Judith was carrying on the Grimes legacy with the python and the hat.   

I assume we will also see her coming up with harebrained schemes and wildly fluctuating between being a naive pacifist and a paranoid war monger, from episode to episode.  

So, flip-floppy Morgan's her uncle?

Edited November 5, 2018 by walnutqueen
fat fucking fingers!!! AKA zombie amuse bouches

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

EVERYTHING is a stretch with this fucking show.

Abandon Hope ...

 

So, flip-floppy Morgan's her uncle?

I was thinking of Rick, with the wild philosophical fluctuations, but I guess Uncle Morgan was even worse than Rick, in that regard.  

[Jersey Guy 87]

13 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Except for the helicopter that no one can hear or see, this episode got to me. Loved seeing Rick and Shane together and my heart broke when Daryl cried. The horse was pure comedy. Tossed Rick on rebar yet consistently hung around waiting for him.

The horse cracked me up.  Flipped out when Rick was riding it and uninjured when the walkers approached, flipping Rick onto some conveniently placed rebar. After that the horse seemed to have no problems with the walkers, calmly standing by while Rick hallucinated and walkers were all over the place.

12 hours ago, suomi said:

Heh heh, I always call that the Bronco follow instead of the Bronco chase. And, because I have no shame, I can remember exactly where I was, who I was with and what I was doing. (Painting my granddaughter's bedroom).

IA about seeing Scott Wilson. Perhaps the best and most meaningful part of tonight's ep.

I was trying to watch the Knicks and the Houston Rockets in the NBA finals.  NBC cut away to the "chase" simply because they didn't want to be the one network that wasn't broadcasting live if OJ got out of the Bronco and killed himself.  I would have rather watched the game.

[maystone]

11 hours ago, heisenberg said:

It is the only thing I care about since the first glimpse of the helicopter.  I keep wishing that where the helicopter goes there is a real civilisation.  No mad max, no little house on the prairie, a real place with computers, scientists and stuff.   Maybe a cure?

But it was all so poorly done that I gave up.  The lady with the twins for example...  Anyone knows who the fuck they are and why they passed by?

There was just too many loose strings but now my interest is back.  More than with judith and the gang,

If they devellop that plot that is... They can also forget about it, I guess they don't really care in fact. A flash once or twice per season... 

It makes me think of Lost, turning in circles to finish with nothing at the end.  I hope not.

I think I'm supposed to answer this in Spoilers and Speculation, so I'll take it there.

8 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

I'll be on my island of one looking forward to seeing where this goes.   Having the Walkers evolving and seeing the Whispers and the rest of what is going on in the world piques my interest.  Yet at the same time I can't stand Fear the Walking Dead and can barely get into the 3rd season.  So I'll be disappointed if they fuck this up.

I still think it's a shame that they had to off Carl and now Judith will be the new generation?   The Shane scenes were everything. 

Is this canon in the show now? That the Walkers are evolving? I didn't catch the reference in the episode.

8 hours ago, Nashville said:

They probably have me for at least another couple of episodes or so - pretty much solely because I want to see if they revisit Carol and her fight with the renegade Saviors at the Battle of Bridge Camp.  

Other than that...?  They better come up with something pretty fucking stellar in the next 2-3 hours of show to pique my interest, else I’m out.  I already dumped FTWD; got zero problems dumping the mothership as well, at this point.  TWD’s credit with my loyalty bank is overdrawn.

Exactly my POV, too. I've stuck with TWD through good and bad, and now I expect some respect for my viewership in return.

[mandolin]

As much as I hate the fact that Rick Grimes is gone from the show, I am glad he is still alive and they are doing a time jump. I honestly cannot sit through these people mourning him. While his ending is not what I wish for him, I’m glad he’s safe-ish.  

I appreciated the callbacks to earlier seasons, but it’s frustrating that the show has to show those time frames and those people to make me feel that way. Starting around season four, the feeling I got watching this show began to fade, but I was still along for the ride. I always blamed stupid decisions on the writers rather than on poor choices by the characters. 

I do not think I am in love with the idea of movies… I do not want to see Rick mourning his old life and all that he is missing, but I certainly do not want amnesia. I enjoy this universe, but I am afraid they are already stretching themselves way too thin. At least I have the early seasons on Blu-ray and Netflix. 

Michonne looks lovely in the previews! (As per usual)

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, Jersey Guy 87 said:

The horse cracked me up.  Flipped out when Rick was riding it and uninjured when the walkers approached, flipping Rick onto some conveniently placed rebar. After that the horse seemed to have no problems with the walkers, calmly standing by while Rick hallucinated and walkers were all over the place.

I was trying to watch the Knicks and the Houston Rockets in the NBA finals.  NBC cut away to the "chase" simply because they didn't want to be the one network that wasn't broadcasting live if OJ got out of the Bronco and killed himself.  I would have rather watched the game.

Me too!  Thankfully, that couldn't happen today.  They would move the game to ESPN 8 or the Disney Channel or something.  I was actually streaming NBA League Pass on my phone during TWD. :)

[Persnickety1]

Damn it, I'm so torn.  

I had read the spoilers about "Blue Thunder" (yeah, I'm old as dirt) and Jadis beaming up Rick and taking him off to WhoKnowsWhereLand, but I thought maybe AMC had leaked that to troll viewers.  

I then thought well, if that's going to happen, I hope it's a way to give a redemption arc to Jadis after all the past fuckery and not her trading in Rick for a case of applesauce or some shit, so at least that happened.  

Although I much would have preferred that fucking Tara be riding shotgun in that Chopper to Nowhere, dammit.   

Then when Rick was atop the horse and passed out face first in the saddle, I found myself hoping that when he awoke, he would be Cowboy Walker Rick and lead that fucking herd straight to Hilltop where Tara could be the first victim and then the entire existing cast could be killed thus ending the show right here.

Alas, no such luck.  

I sort of loved Judith at the end as a preface to show the 6-year time jump.  Cute girl, but as with her big brother, obviously no one told her to Stay In The House, either.  

Best part?  IMO, Darryl fighting the proverbial losing battle by firing off those arrows knowing Rick's death was imminent...Or so he (we) all thought.

And speaking of that mission...Really (REALLY) reminiscent of CJ's death in the 2004 version of Dawn of the Dead.  

Anyway, in some ways I wish they would have let Rick have a hero's death and blow up on that bridge.  

But in other ways, I'm glad they left the door open for him to perhaps pop up here and there.  

Now if only they find a way to kill off Tara, I'll be totally happy.  

[Ouisch]

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Oh yeah.  I think Negan was totally using reverse psychology on her. At least on a well written show, that would be the case.  Of course the writers will probably create a ridiculous, tedious redemption arc for Negan, so we are probably supposed to take Negan to have been sincere.   

I was hoping Maggie would do a Hans Gruber a la Die Hard - when Takagi said "I don't know the code, you'll just have to kill me" and Hans simply said "OK" and BANG! But no, Maggie had to wimp out.... although I was thinking that once she let him out of his cell he'd overpower her and escape.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

I suspend much disbelief for this show.  The problem I have with last night's Rick save is one of physics.  Rick was well past the portion of the bridge that was over water.  He was standing on the land.  The blast would have thrown him back, away from the blast and the center of the bridge over the water.  But miraculously Rick lands in the water among the flaming zombies and floats downstream.  That's not how this works!  That's not how any of this works!

Then the miracle stealth helicopter appears.  In our loud world, we hear helicopters from a long distance off; i.e, with significant ambient noise. Have the humans all gone deaf?  

Hopefully this means Jadis is gone.  They've never come up with anything that makes sense for her character with her desires to create bizarre, weaponized attack zombies.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, Ouisch said:

I was hoping Maggie would do a Hans Gruber a la Die Hard - when Takagi said "I don't know the code, you'll just have to kill me" and Hans simply said "OK" and BANG! But no, Maggie had to wimp out.... although I was thinking that once she let him out of his cell he'd overpower her and escape.

I wanted her to kill him, but I would have rather seen him overpower her and escape than for her to fall for his groveling and begging to be killed and putting him back in the cell.  Enough Negan already.  The showrunners' obsession with that tedious character has all but destroyed the show.  I don't even care if he lives or dies, he could get on the Garbage Copter with Jadis and disappear for all I care.  Just get him off my TV screen.  

4 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

I suspend much disbelief for this show.  The problem I have with last night's Rick save is one of physics.  Rick was well past the portion of the bridge that was over water.  He was standing on the land.  The blast would have thrown him back, away from the blast and the center of the bridge over the water.  But miraculously Rick lands in the water among the flaming zombies and floats downstream.  That's not how this works!  That's not how any of this works!

Then the miracle stealth helicopter appears.  In our loud world, we hear helicopters from a long distance off; i.e, with significant ambient noise. Have the humans all gone deaf?  

Hopefully this means Jadis is gone.  They've never come up with anything that makes sense for her character with her desires to create bizarre, weaponized attack zombies.

True, Rick would have been blown well clear of the collapse.  For that matter, he easily could have taken a few steps back before firing and avoided the blast altogether.

Maybe everyone has forgotten what a helicopter sounds like? :)

[LadyMustang65]

14 hours ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

Carol, on The Talking Dead, said the time jump was six years.

Really?  Because I was positive it flashed on screen that it was 9 years.  Unless I was watching upside down?

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, walnutqueen said:

The first time I ever held a weapon was a Lew Horton Special recessed 44 Magnum nickel plated revolver.  My wannabe boyfriend shot at a soda can, one-handed, and so did I.  He is long gone, but the 44 isn't  ...

Mr. Stoopid forgot about Xmas, and put his most favorite gun in a paper bag under my pillow for my prezzie - Boy, was he gobsmacked when I kept it!  :-)  

If they changed this board to TWD...and Gun Talk I might stick around.  TWD by itself just isn't enough anymore haha.

Quote

I suspend much disbelief for this show.  The problem I have with last night's Rick save is one of physics.  Rick was well past the portion of the bridge that was over water.  He was standing on the land.  The blast would have thrown him back, away from the blast and the center of the bridge over the water.  But miraculously Rick lands in the water among the flaming zombies and floats downstream.  That's not how this works!  That's not how any of this works!

That was my issue too.  Rick fell into the river because plot said so. It would have been better if his people just stupidly left thinking he was blown up and Jadis came across him lying in the road or maybe a little off the road in the weeds or something a little while later, and then the chopper arrived.  That would explain their not hearing the chopper and would have avoided the impossible physics of him falling in the river.  Writers on this show, for whatever reason, never stop and ask themselves, "does this make sense?"

Edited November 5, 2018 by Dobian

[LadyMustang65]

15 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

In other news we actually got an answer. Rick is a "B". So, now the question is B = Male or Human? A = Female or Walker?

Are they trying to repopulate the earth and seeking out strong male/females?  Are they looking for test subjects Human/Walkers? Or maybe B = Warrior/Soldier and A = Scholar/Leader?

This actually annoyed me because I feel like we'll never get an answer now.  Jadis/Anne thought Father Gabriel was a B but then decided he was an A after he said he forgave her.  And she let him go.  Then she said Rick was a B.  I was initially thinking an A was a strong fighter-type and a B was more of a follower type, which made a bit of sense with her re-characterizing Gabriel.  But it makes zero sense in connection to Rick.  But with Jadis/Anne flying away with Rick after telling them she needed to leave there, I'm thinking we're never going to know who those people are and what that was all about.  Because how do they do that without showing us Rick?  And along those lines, how does a live Rick Grimes NOT find a way to escape and get back to his family after 9 (or 6) years?  Because the Rick Grimes we've known the past 9 seasons would never be able to be kept away from them.  So does that mean he didn't make it after all?  Ugh.  Too many questions raised that I just don't see ever getting answered.  :(

I was doing all right until Darryl's lip quivered.  Then the tears flowed.  Rick was a deeply flawed character, but I loved him.  And I really think he was the heart of the show.  I'm just not sure how well it's going to go without him there.

Also, am I the only one who thought it was weird that 9 (or 6) years later and maybe what now - a decade or more after the zombie apocalypse - there are still random groups of people wandering around the countryside?  I had always assumed that by then everyone would have ended up banding together into some kind of village - like Sanctuary, Hilltop, Alexandria, Oceanside, etc.- and have become farmers to survive.  Not sure what the purpose is of setting off on foot for parts unknown, especially if you don't have super zombie-killing powers.  It just seems like they should have evolved past that stuff.

I did kind of like Judith Grimes taking over for daddy, but it remains to be seen how that will play out.  If she's some kind of leader in a group of adults, I'll be pissed.  That will just be more than I could handle.  Also, am I the only one who really wanted to see what happened in that little egg suck at the camp?  Looks like all the Saviors ended up dead while all (or at least most) of the good guys survived?  Convenient.  Not that I'll miss any of the Saviors or that I wanted to see Jerry or Carol or some of the others end up dead.  But I would like to have seen that.  Much more than I wanted to see Maggie and Negan.  And there was astonishingly little satisfaction in seeing Negan reduced to tears and begging to die.  Not sure why.  Best thing about that was the scene between Maggie and Michonne.  And I did like Maggie deciding that Rick had been right and not killing Negan herself.  

I liked the three scenes with Hershel, Shane and Sasha.  Those were probably the right three to bring back.  {Realized after reading this, that I'm actually pissed they didn't bring Glenn back.  He should have been in the mix somewhere.}

Last little nitpick - I really don't understand why Rick ended up bringing the walkers back to the bridge.  That was what Darryl said originally, and Rick was hellbent on saving the bridge.  He was leading them away - why not just keep leading them away?  He could have gotten them a few miles out heading away, then gotten far enough ahead of the herd to circle back around them.  Did I miss something?

Oh well.  I'm still in as we see how this new world develops.  Thank, Andy Lincoln, for an incredible job, and best of luck with your career.

Edited November 5, 2018 by LadyMustang65
added a forgotten thought

[Macbeth]

3 hours ago, Dobian said:

I said before the episode that this was my last one, and that hasn't changed.  I give Kang credit, she inherited a train wreck from Gimple and did an admirable job.  But Rick's helicopter rescue ruined what could have been one of the greatest TWD episodes of all time and was the last fake-out I can handle watching.  This is a show on the downside of its lifespan but instead of focusing on making it the best show they can while bringing some closure, they want to make TWD: The Next Generation and let Rick have his own separate TWD movies.  I guess this is supposed to be like Star Trek where you had the new shows while TOS did their movies.  I'm just not very interested in an expanded TWD universe.  For me, the premise just doesn't sustain it and it will just keep going in circles while zombies walk around indefinitely.  No thanks.  I enjoyed the ride, but time to move on.

It's my last episode as well.

Rick and Andrew Lincoln are really gone.  The movies are never going to happen.  People were pissed  after Negan lived last year.  So they promoted Rick's "final episodes" and then do a fake out.  They are lying to us to possibly stop more viewers from leaving.  The ratings are down for this show.  They are just trying to keep the show on the air.  They gave what 20 million to Reedus.  How much goes to the CGI.  There is no money for movies.  

Andrew looks very nice, clean, and happy back in England.

[LadyMustang65]

14 hours ago, Jets4274 said:

And how is it that no one besides Jadis heard or saw the helicopter?  She flew off with Rick in daylight and no one is expected to look up at the sky and say WTF?  That part of the storyline made no sense to me.

To us it looked like Rick had fallen into the river along with the herd and had been swept downstream before pulling himself out (or washing up) on the bank.  So we assumed Jadis was far enough away from the rest, as she didn't really seem to know what was up with all the zombie parts flowing past her in the river, that she wasn't aware of the bridge blowing up, and they couldn't see or hear the helicopter.

[Ramona]

The whole time I was watching, I kept thinking of a short story I read years ago, called "Incident at Owl Creek Bridge."  It's about a soldier during the civil war who gets hanged, but the rope breaks and  he escapes and tries to make it home to his family.  However, the twist is that he actually did die.  So with that context, it made every scene more intense for me, because I was obviously completely off base!  I am glad Rick survived, but I agree with a lot of the folks who felt frustrated by the way it was written.  I am looking forward to the upcoming episodes.   It looks like it is going to be a completely differently show, which is very exciting.   I am sad that my favorite couple, Richonne, are no longer together, which makes me hope that maybe in the next episode we might see a little Rick Jr.  (But not likely).  Either way, the next episodes are going to be interesting.  

[CharethCutestory]

They could've and probably should've ended it right there after the boom. But Rick lived. And I'm not even entirely upset about that. Him surviving and being taken to some unknown place does pique my interest, I can't lie. Point AMC, you shifty bastards. BUT. The way it was carried out was pretty cringe worthy and so paled in comparison to the rest of an otherwise excellent episode. (Negan scenes notwithstanding) Jadis spotting Rick flopping around like a fish out of water on the embankment and him coming to with her looming over him, talking to him like he was her newborn baby was just...WTF. Hasn't the man been through enough?

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

That was my issue too.  Rick fell into the river because plot said so.

 

Yeah, finding him caught in the branches of a nearby tree with his boots on fire would've been more appropriate physics wise. But then they couldn't include the 'blown off a bridge into the metaphorical baptism river' trope that FTWD season 3 did better.  He also should've been totally knocked out when Jadis found him and needed his pulse taken to confirm he wasn't dead. Rick still awake and trying to get up after all that was so ridiculous. Is he bionic? Is that what 'B' stands for? 

Edited November 5, 2018 by CharethCutestory

[apollonia666]

49 minutes ago, LadyMustang65 said:

Jadis/Anne thought Father Gabriel was a B but then decided he was an A after he said he forgave her.  And she let him go.  Then she said Rick was a B.  

She said Gabriel was an A instead of a B after he said he wouldn't leave with her, right before she knocked him out. He didn't forgive her until later, during the zombie-on-a-handtruck nonsense in the next episode. So your initial thinking might still be correct!

[Nashville]

7 hours ago, stormy weather said:

But then how does that explain Gabriel? Jadis thought he was a B and then when he said "okay well, I guess I'll have to love you and leave you" she changed her mind and said he was an A. Did she realize he had been bitten by seeing him up close? She should've already realized then, no? That's why I think it has something to do more with character than with physical appearance/health. I might be wrong, though, 'cause other than that, your explanation makes sense. 

If you’ll recall:

• The Helicopter Voice guy is adamant they’ll only pick up Jadis/Anne if she has an “A” to trade for transport, at which point Gabriel shows up.
• Anne says, “And here all this time I thought you were a B”, then knocks Gabriel out with the walkie-talkie.
• Gabriel comes to, tied up on the creeper/roller dolly/whatever.
• Anne then starts to tip Dried-up Desdemona over onto Gabriel for a little love bite - but Anne has a change of heart after Gabriel “forgives” her and abandons him in the junkyard, leaving Gabriel free to escape.

Assuming this particular guess about the A/B infected/uninflected meaning was correct - looked like Anne was about to take matters into her own hands and (via an inflicted bite) convert Gabriel from a B to the A she needed, before suffering a fit of remorse.

 

I’m wondering now, though, if A=healthy and B=damaged/injured.  Anne may have thought she could fast-talk her way past Gabriel’s eye affliction (“He’s not sick - not any more, anyway!”), but no way that was going to fly for Rick with his obvious abdominal wound.  Still doesn’t explain her zombie-tipping escapades with Negan and FPP, though.

 

5 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It was kind of  ridiculous to see a little girl shooting a .357 magnum pistol.  But, the weight of the gun actually reduces the felt recoil.  A smaller pistol shooting the same rounds would be even worse.   

It would definitely explain why the Hat was laying on the ground, though; every time Judith cut loose with a round the Hat might stay where it’s at, but Judith would end up about three feet back.  :>

Just kidding - although it would make for a GREAT visual.  One second Judith is wearing Hat and sighting the gun, the next split second a puff of smoke and Hat spinning in the air - with no Judith underneath....    :D

In truth, though, Judith could’ve been shooting .38 Special rounds instead of .357 Magnum; much less recoil, and probably a helluva lot easier to find when scavenging.  But a 6” Colt Python is STILL a damn heavy chunk of steel (3-4 lbs fully loaded) for a grown man to hold steady for multiple follow-up shots on-target - much less a preteen - especially for accurate head shots every time.  

But - Hollywood!

[Dobian]

I think what was really stupid was the whole setup for why Judith was shooting a path for these millennials to escape the zombie horde.  Why would they be completely surrounded in broad daylight by a zombie horde?  For me to get trapped in the middle of a zombie horde in broad daylight I would literally have to go find a horde, make a bunch of noise on purpose, and move around to get them to circle me.  Why does anyone ever get caught in the middle of a zombie horde on this show?