S03.E02 A Philadelphia Story

[buckboard]

20 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

The premiere was on a Saturday. That didn’t all happen in one day.

You may be right about going to Philadelphia and to the premiere not all happening in one day, but it still makes no sense for Randall to make  frequent two hour -- each way -- trips to Philadelphia and to get so involved in events happening so far from his home.

[DebbieM4]

4 hours ago, debraran said:

Does anyone think their family is odd though, not the "normal family" TIU tries to say everyone relates too. I've had family and friends and acquaintances go through death, a child, adults, sometimes multiple deaths and 20 years later, aren't talking to urns and visiting death sites. It's so weird to me that for decades, this was a "normal" for some of them. 

Rebecca was a nice person, Jack worked, didn't she have friends, a gym membership, hobbies, anything? Did she go to church, have anyone who cared about her?  It seems so "cardboard" to me, like Jack was the only one who was really living and everyone rotated around him.  Randall moved on but still had issues. I don't blame his upbringing on that, he was always anxious as a child, black or white, but wanting to be perfect is something that is impossible to achieve. I've seen others exhaust themselves doing that.

I want the joy, the producer promised, I want the laughs, just watching depression, miscarriages, drinking, more depression, disappointment, that's not life, that's a family that needs help. That's why I want more Rebecca and Miguel now, they are the most promising. ; )

I agree.  There needs to be more balance overall.

And I never had a problem with Miguel, and would be interested in seeing more of him (and not just as a bit player with a line or two tossed in every now and then.)

3 hours ago, readheaded said:

Rebecca does seem somewhat one-dimensional.  

Absolutely.  I've always felt that way.  She & I actually have several things in common, but I don't feel that I can relate to her at all.

[Katekate]

Would anyone like to discuss what a horrible mother Kate would be? Adopted or biological. She’s a narcissist. They make the worst mothers. 

[ChromaKelly]

First, bravo show for making me like Toby. Him telling everyone to STFU was great. Rebecca did need to chill out and pick another time to have this discussion. However, I still hate Kate and Toby. Their car scene was just too much. They are already starting a cycle? Wonder how much time has passed. I also wasn't sure which injection that was. I did mine in the abdomen and then there was some that were in the butt. Those hurt. I know, everything has to be soooo dramatic. Speaking of - what's the big whoop with the egg retrieval? I don't recall that being particularly dangerous. I think it was twilight anesthesia and they shove a probe up your hoo-ha and suck the eggs out. It was all done in the clinic.
I think I like the Big Three better in their kid storylines. All of the kid actors are amazing. 
Yet another Kevin event where everyone is having Big Moments and Feelings. Sigh.
There's been a lot said about Kate's passing down a piece of dad comment so I'll keep it brief. As an adoptive mom, ouch. Randall is the most Jack-like. Also that was rude to Kevin who was sitting right fucking there. It really did come off like Kate is the only bearer of the Dad legacy. Bleh. She needs some serious therapy. She has never really processed her feelings.
I'm ok with Randall still needing to work out his identity. I've read a lot of things by transracial adoptees and it truly is a lifelong journey, trying to figure out what world you belong in. 
 

 

[colorbars]

8 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

Yes, Kate pushed to discuss it in the car.  But Rebecca should have simply said they should talk about it the next day when things wouldn't be so rushed.  "I'd love to talk to you about this.  Let's have lunch tomorrow."   I certainly wouldn't be pushed into having a conversation that clearly neither side was ready for - Rebecca hadn't had time to digest the news, and Kate was still stunned that their secret had been revealed.  Not to mention that it's extremely inconsiderate to Kevin - who is also Rebecca's child - to go down that road and almost surely cause a delay and/or highly emotional/angry family members on a very big night for him.

I also thought Rebecca was insulting in the way she presented her view, as though Kate and Toby were unaware that it was risky and hadn't spoken to medical health professionals about their decision.  Foolish as this decision may be, they are adults, and she would do well to treat them with some respect.  There's nothing wrong with a concerned mother voicing concerns, but it should be handled delicately - especially in this case, given the history.  Even though Rebecca has a big problem being tactful and not sounding judgmental, I have no problem with a mother/daughter conversation.  Just not at that moment.  It was the wrong time for many reasons.

I do agree with you that Kate's comment about Jack was awful.  Sadly, I think that fits right in with what we've seen of her.  She's wrapped up in herself and her self-pity to the point that she often comes across as completely uncaring about the feelings of others.

As if Kate wouldn't have continued to push Rebecca into saying something about it. We've all seen how Kate is when it comes to Rebecca; she's always the victim. She even made her concern about her daughter having a dangerous elective surgery into getting on her about her weight, as if her weight isn't what makes the surgery dangerous.

Kate is an adult, she wants to be a mother, there's no reason why Rebecca needs to be responsible for deciding when to have the conversation if Kate is pushing her to say it.

[DebbieM4]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

The kids were 17 when he died  They didn't really need tending at that point  It's a general failing with TV shows because there just really isn't time to show friendships when the family is the focus.  We know that she was friends with Miguel's ex, but I think he got Jack and Rebecca in the divorce.  She was friends with the guys in the band, but that would have been awkward after the incident, which I don't think was more than  a year before Jack's death.   She probably ahd friends at the bar that she then had to avoid.  Maybe she hadn't found a way to replace them yet.

I agree with all of this, but it seems odd to me that someone who supposedly spent all her time involved with her kids wouldn't have met and become friends with other mothers.  Certainly she must have crossed paths with them at school events, while discussing play dates and parties and sleepovers, etc.   I wasn't close friends with all the other mothers when my kids were in school, but over time we saw each other pretty frequently and got to know each other, and I did develop pretty close friendships with some of them.  Did Rebecca not interact with any of them?  And did she also not know any of her neighbors?  I just don't get having kids and being so isolated.  It's not as though she was home-schooling them and they had no friends or social activities that involved her having to drive them, etc.  (And did she have no female friends when she met Jack?  Just the guys in the band?) 

As you said, they were 17 when he died.  So they had been in school all day for many years at that point, which freed her up during those hours.  And there are after-school activities and social lives for kids long before they reach age 17.  Not to mention that Jack was working, often late.  How did she fill her time?  I understand that the focus of this show is on family, but some throwaway lines ("I made a special dinner for you, Jack.  Susie gave me the recipe" or "Bob & Ann invited us to a barbecue next week")  would go a long way toward being more realistic without taking anything away from the focus.  Rebecca has always come across to me as pathetic, and I don't think we're supposed to see her that way.

[DebbieM4]

35 minutes ago, colorbars said:

As if Kate wouldn't have continued to push Rebecca into saying something about it. We've all seen how Kate is when it comes to Rebecca; she's always the victim. She even made her concern about her daughter having a dangerous elective surgery into getting on her about her weight, as if her weight isn't what makes the surgery dangerous.

Kate is an adult, she wants to be a mother, there's no reason why Rebecca needs to be responsible for deciding when to have the conversation if Kate is pushing her to say it.

She might have continued to push, yes.  But I still think Rebecca was wrong to get into it at that moment.  Having an emotional conversation as they're rushing off to an important event is a bad idea and Kate pushing for it doesn't mean it has to happen.  She was already unhappy, and that discussion wasn't going to make anything better.  Toby putting a stop to it (although of course he was over the top) was the best thing that could have happened.  The discussion was shelved, and off they went to the premiere.  

 Rebecca is Kevin's mother too, and if I were her, I would have stood my ground and told Kate that we would talk about it tomorrow.  The night belonged to Kevin.  

Edited October 4, 2018 by DebbieM4

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

Does anyone else find their interest in the Pearson family waning? I'm especially growing weary of Jack flashbacks. His children have lived more than half their lives without him. Move on. 

The whole premise of this show is how the life and loss of their husband/father colors their present lives. They have "moved on," but they also are who they are (somewhat) because of the influence of their parents, particularly their beloved father. Aren't we all?

[gohawks]

Was the councilman hitting on Randall?

[bros402]

18 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Ugh, these people. What is their deal with causing scenes in front of everyone, at the most inappropriate times? At a house showing in front of your realtor? check. At a movie premiere for your son/brother? check. They are all such emo drama queens. I loved Toby going off on them. His was the most rational, reasonable, normal reaction to anything that happened in this episode, even if it's fueled by anti depressant withdrawal.

Kate's comment, repeated by Kevin, was tactless, but Randall's reaction to it was over the top. They really all do need to be in therapy.

At least acting up at the house showing makes sense - they were kids who recently lost their father, they aren't going to be perfect

[ThisIsMe]

To me, Randall is the most interesting character.  And I like these new layers of complexity that were added in the latest episode.  He turns down college at Howard U because his family is falling apart. Makes sense, given what we've seen of Young Randall.  He's a "fixer" (and we see that when it comes to Deja, the community center, the apartment building, etc.).  But then to add the other layer of him coming to grips with his "otherness" -- and that dagger he felt when Kate said what she said about passing on their dad's lineage ... that was the kind of moment that keeps me watching the show.

Because this is what happens with families.  We sometimes hurt each other unintentionally.  Some things cannot be unsaid.  It's messy, it's complicated, all of that.  Yet, most of us try to keep the family afloat.  Why do we do it?  How do we do it?  This show is exploring those questions.  Just like with my own family, I may not like all of the storylines, but I still tune in.

[pennben]

So, Rebecca didn’t want to have kids in the first season, and folks didn’t like her, so she doesn’t deserve Jacks children.  She was not on board with the snap decision to adopt Randall, so she’s awful and didnt deserve his love. Now Kate wants a biological child and expresses that inartfully, so she has no business being a mother. 

If these are the conclusions being reached, perhaps we have a writing flaw more than the characters being flawed  

it was well written why Toby was off his game this episode  hence understanding why he snapped at Rebecca.  And, since he was rude to Rebecca, 3 cheers for him. However, there was no real consideration to the effect of hormone treatments to consider why Kate might be experiencing the feelings she had and expressed inartfully, sadly that hurt a hero’s feelings, so to hell with her.

I’m overgeneralizing, but somehow this show frustrates me in the same way over and over  maybe it’s the writing, maybe the acting, maybe just the reactions  who knows, but I feel like I need to spend an inordinate time defending the women on this show,  even more than I may want. 

[LakeLover]

16 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I could see Kate initially reacting badly to it, although she'd likely accept it at the end. From experience, I was supposed to be named Sarah because my family all are named something that starts with the letter S. But my aunt completely freaked out and told them that I could not be named Sarah because when she had a daughter, she would name her Sarah (spoiler: my aunt had only one boy nearly a decade later). So my parents had to give up the name Sarah for Jessica, since they had no other S names that they liked. Granted, my mother is a pushover so it's quite possible that my aunt just said that she wanted to name her future daughter Sarah and my mother gave in immediately.

So, I could see this being a plot point, even for an episode and even if it is worked out by the end of the episode. I could see this show going that way because they've presented Kate very consistently when it comes to her relationship with Jack.

Oh, I love this story. When I was pregnant with our second, I recall relaxing in the afternoon and after talking about it, deciding if we had a girl (this was 30 years ago when we didn't know ahead of time), we'd name her "Alexis" (not her real name). That night, we got a call from my husband's stepfather telling us his son and daughter-in-law had just had a baby girl and they named her Alexis. We looked at each other and smiled. Three months later, we did have our second of three daughters and we named her Alexis. When we told his mom and stepfather, stepfather said, "But we ALREADY have an Alexis in the family!" Husband said, "Now we have two."

 

We never met the "other" Alexis. Not even a single time. Moral of the story? Name your child what you want to name her or him. How many Italian families have three "Frankies"? Heh. Mine does.

[qtpye]

10 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Regarding what Kate said, Kevin may be a privileged pretty boy, but he has worked to be taken seriously.  He left The Manny, he did an off-Broadway play to work on his craft, and acted in a serious drama headlined by a respected director.  Furthermore, he's made an effort to be more mature and take responsibility for his actions, even when it doesn't benefit him.  Kate knows Kevin better than anyone, so her casually throwing the idea that Kevin can't pass on Jack's legacy (through children) had to sting.  He's made some momentous changes in his life, so why wouldn't a child be among them?  

And as willingly as she dishes it out, Kate can't take it.  When anyone pushes back, she gets upset and bails.  Would she really have listened to Kevin or Randall if they had said some awful things like that?

I love William, but his appearances are like Jack's flashbacks: well-worn territory that's meant to pull at the heartstrings.  He had a beautiful farewell, so I'm tired of them going back to that apartment.  I did like meeting Chichi.  You know who else I'd want to know? Randall's biological mother.  Sure, she's dead, but so are William and Jack, and we see them all the time!

 

10 hours ago, Ohmo said:

But it wasn't an off-hand comment, and Kate revealed that she is indeed a superficial person by saying it.  Coming from the family that Kate did, it is a shocking thing for her to say because the man that she's supposedly trying to honor wouldn't give a flying fig about what the baby looked like.  Jack was the one who always tried to show Kate that her weight didn't define her.  That it was who she was as a person.  Jack loved Randall whether he was black, white, or purple with polka dots.  By being so focused on DNA, Kate has shown she has not learned the essence of who her father really was.

 

10 hours ago, lexiexx said:

It’s so bizarre that Kate knows how much her idolized father loved her mom, but still treats her like crap.   If jack was alive he would have probably punched Toby in the face for that little tantrum aimed at rebeca.

Jack was wrong for enabling Kate’s food addiction.   Rebecca was the one who wanted her to eat healthy.  Now her weight is totally out of control and there are consequences.    And somehow Rebecca is still the asshole who gets the brunt of Kate’s hair trigger being defensive problem.     I don’t get that.   

 

9 hours ago, buckboard said:

I appreciate that Randall wants to make sure that Deja is exposed to other African American teens, but instead of connecting her with kids in a city near their home in Alpine in Northern New Jersey - say, Newark, for example - he drives over 100 miles to Philadelphia?   Two hours away?  He's already working on restoring his biological father's building and now he's going to get involved in Philadelphia city politics?  

And there is no way he would have made it back from Philadelphia to NYC in time to make the premiere.

 

9 hours ago, Pallas said:

A wonderful post. "The man she's supposedly trying to honor," is right. Kate's not trying to honor Jack; she's trying to recreate him, as her own. She's putting her life on the line to clone her pet. 

Can you imagine how Kate would have reacted if Randall or Kevin had pointed out that Kate still had a lot of emotional baggage and should work through her own issues before even thinking of having a child? Kate would have flipped the fuck out and got on the first plane to LA with Toby enabling her all the way. I know she said she wanted to see Toby's face but what if she has a baby that is the spitting image of her dopey husband and looks nothing like her handsome father? Will she resent it, "Because it did not carry on Jack's legacy"?

[lu1535]

I know I've said it before, on another forum, but I really don't like Rebecca's hair in present time. It is so unflattering and the blunt cut has never been a fav of mine. 

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, pennben said:

So, Rebecca didn’t want to have kids in the first season, and folks didn’t like her, so she doesn’t deserve Jacks children.  She was not on board with the snap decision to adopt Randall, so she’s awful and didnt deserve his love. Now Kate wants a biological child and expresses that inartfully, so she has no business being a mother. 

If these are the conclusions being reached, perhaps we have a writing flaw more than the characters being flawed  

it was well written why Toby was off his game this episode  hence understanding why he snapped at Rebecca.  And, since he was rude to Rebecca, 3 cheers for him. However, there was no real consideration to the effect of hormone treatments to consider why Kate might be experiencing the feelings she had and expressed inartfully, sadly that hurt a hero’s feelings, so to hell with her.

I’m overgeneralizing, but somehow this show frustrates me in the same way over and over  maybe it’s the writing, maybe the acting, maybe just the reactions  who knows, but I feel like I need to spend an inordinate time defending the women on this show,  even more than I may want. 

Thank you.  I've almost decided to quit watching because of all this animosity toward Kate this week.  Now she's even being called a  racist who doesn't love Randall just because she tried, as you say, inartfully to tell her mother why she wanted to have a biological baby rather than adopt.  Does that mean any woman who wants the experience of growing and giving birth to a child is an arrogant racist who only wants a mini-me or mini-other relative to dress up? I was thrilled when my baby looked just like my husband, does that mean I didn't know he would be passing on other, more important things than his looks? Did it mean I only wanted a mini-husband to dress up in little jeans?  Where is all this coming from?

From her one short statement people are concluding that Kate doesn't appreciate the legacy Jack left to all three children or understand who he really was.  How do we jump to that?  Kate didn't bring any of that up because that didn't answer the, "Why not adopt?" question. In that family where every holiday is devoted to talking about Jack, would she have missed that most of those memories are based on things Jack did and said and not the color of his eyes? Of course not. She said nothing at all to imply that she doesn't love her nieces (who we have seen her talk and play with) or that she doesn't think of them as full family members.  Again  the "piece of Jack" phrase was in answer to why not adopt, nothing at all about it implies that anyone who doesn't have that piece of Jack is not a full family member.  Don't Tess and Annie have a huge "piece of Randall?"  Does that mean Randall and Beth have taught them to despise the Pearsons?  Kate's even being blamed for being the only girl with two brothers, as though that guarantees she's spoiled. 

Last year, Randall told Rebecca to call before dropping in and was cold to her for months,  this season Toby screams at Rebecca to shut up and her children say nothing in her defense.  The treatment of Miguel by both Randall and Kevin has become a tiny bit better but it was inexcusable at first.  I wish Rebecca and Miguel would move to Florida and never look back, I'm tired of watching them be abused.

[Maximona]

5 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I wish Rebecca and Miguel would move to Florida and never look back, I'm tired of watching them be abused.

Amen.

Though if they did, there wouldn't be much of a show/

[Crs97]

I don’t like it when babies are supposed to have jobs, like when Randall’s magical store clerk told him Tess would give him all the answers or Kate’s expecting her baby to be a new Jack for her.  It always rubs me the wrong way.

[PRgal]

18 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

 

Last year, Randall told Rebecca to call before dropping in and was cold to her for months,  this season Toby screams at Rebecca to shut up and her children say nothing in her defense.  The treatment of Miguel by both Randall and Kevin has become a tiny bit better but it was inexcusable at first.  I wish Rebecca and Miguel would move to Florida and never look back, I'm tired of watching them be abused.

I feel worse for Miguel, who has to deal with his adult stepkids.  At least Kate lives on the other side of the country and he doesn't have to see her on a regular basis?  

I wonder what's become of his ex and children...I doubt the show will even touch that mystery...

[Crs97]

49 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I wonder what's become of his ex and children...I doubt the show will even touch that mystery...

Not when Deja has a third cousin with a  roommate whose life needs explaining in a three-episode arc.

[ShadowFacts]

Haven't we seen in the flash forward that Kate tells Toby they're going to call the doctor tomorrow and get him some new meds?  So maybe the writing will move her in the direction of seeing that Toby's health, and her own, are a higher priority than trying to recreate Jack.  I sure would prefer to see her have some growth than more of the same dysfunction around her dead father.  That's been done for two years now. 

[Adrienne2729]

On 10/2/2018 at 10:59 PM, breezy424 said:

So Randall picks up the girls from school.  Deja is the only one with nothing to do so Randall drives Deja down to Phillie to hang out with Skye.  Um did I understand that correctly?  Kids in NJ get out of school 2:30 - 3:00 depending on the grade.  But Randall manages to drive two hours to Phillie, call the representative guy, follow him to where he's getting a haircut and then back to the center.  Plus buy a light bulb.  Then he manages to get Deja back to Alpine and change, then goes to NYC for Kevin's premiere.  Sorry...  I just can't with this stuff.  They should have had William move to Newark rather than Phillie and then I could buy it. 

Do we know where in NJ Randall's family lives?  Because the NJ state line borders the city of Philadelphia so a drive from NJ to Philly could conceivably be a couple of minutes.

[Ohiopirate02]

10 hours ago, DebbieM4 said:

I agree with all of this, but it seems odd to me that someone who supposedly spent all her time involved with her kids wouldn't have met and become friends with other mothers.  Certainly she must have crossed paths with them at school events, while discussing play dates and parties and sleepovers, etc.   I wasn't close friends with all the other mothers when my kids were in school, but over time we saw each other pretty frequently and got to know each other, and I did develop pretty close friendships with some of them.  Did Rebecca not interact with any of them?  And did she also not know any of her neighbors?  I just don't get having kids and being so isolated.  It's not as though she was home-schooling them and they had no friends or social activities that involved her having to drive them, etc.  (And did she have no female friends when she met Jack?  Just the guys in the band?) 

As you said, they were 17 when he died.  So they had been in school all day for many years at that point, which freed her up during those hours.  And there are after-school activities and social lives for kids long before they reach age 17.  Not to mention that Jack was working, often late.  How did she fill her time?  I understand that the focus of this show is on family, but some throwaway lines ("I made a special dinner for you, Jack.  Susie gave me the recipe" or "Bob & Ann invited us to a barbecue next week")  would go a long way toward being more realistic without taking anything away from the focus.  Rebecca has always come across to me as pathetic, and I don't think we're supposed to see her that way.

I do have to say that Rebecca may have had other friends that were also mothers with kids around the same age, but death does something to friendships.  Some people seem to think that death is somehow catching and start to pull back from the widow.  I have seen this with my mother after my dad passed away.  She has a different group of friends now than she did when my dad was still alive.  Some of the people you thought would be there for you start to pull back, but hopefully new people fill in the void. 

[biakbiak]

6 minutes ago, Adrienne2729 said:

Do we know where in NJ Randall's family lives?  Because the NJ state line borders the city of Philadelphia so a drive from NJ to Philly could conceivably be a couple of minutes.

Yes, they live in Alpine NJ which is about two hours away from Philly.

[Katy M]

23 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do have to say that Rebecca may have had other friends that were also mothers with kids around the same age, but death does something to friendships.  Some people seem to think that death is somehow catching and start to pull back from the widow.  I have seen this with my mother after my dad passed away.  She has a different group of friends now than she did when my dad was still alive.  Some of the people you thought would be there for you start to pull back, but hopefully new people fill in the void. 

It's also that people don't know what to say, or how to act, what to do, so they do nothing.  They're afraid of being too happy around the grieving person, not wanting to be brought down themselves.  And a lot of this is completely unconscious.  People don't decide to be jerks and just pull away from grieving friends.  They just do it.

[plurie]

Everyone is assuming that because teen Randall didn't go to Howard that year, that he's deferring college. He could have applied to other schools, like Pitt or Carnegie Mellon, that are closer to home and may go to one of them that very year. (This would also save money since he could commute.)

[PepSinger]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Thank you.  I've almost decided to quit watching because of all this animosity toward Kate this week.  Now she's even being called a  racist who doesn't love Randall just because she tried, as you say, inartfully to tell her mother why she wanted to have a biological baby rather than adopt.  Does that mean any woman who wants the experience of growing and giving birth to a child is an arrogant racist who only wants a mini-me or mini-other relative to dress up?

(Emphasis mine)

Who said any of this? Especially the italicized part.

[Soup333]

On 10/2/2018 at 10:12 PM, CleoCaesar said:

Why do these 38-year-old adults seem so much like teenagers? Well-adjusted adults aren't this whiny, self-absorbed, childish, and overdramatic. How Rebecca hasn't murdered all of them is beyond me.

Randall's minute-long silence at the very end provoked like ten eyerolls from me. He's not Jack's biological son. Get over it, Randall. Why is this some massive deal? Why does a man pushing 40 have this drama queen reaction?

That's kind of harsh. He had to grow up in this family knowing he's adopted, knowing he basically replaced their dead son. And he's black and visually doesn't "fit in" with the rest of the family. That comment likely threw him back to that place, especially after what he'd JUST said to Beth about not ever fitting in.

On 10/2/2018 at 10:22 PM, balmz said:

ok episode, i loved toby telling them to shut up, won points for me from him

the basil comment annoyed me, as a gardener i know that you can very easily grow basil in  a small pot

the randall plot was interesting but chichi's comment at the end annoyed me, like someone is trying to help you and make life easier for you, having lived in poverty myself i would have been grateful if anyone took the time to help me, also it's just as well they didn't go to texas, it's pretty racist against blacks

kate annoyed me as usual especially the comment at the end about being able to carry a piece of jack

That woman is a bitch. Was one in William's time and is one still now. She could have just said thank you for his help and asked him to spend some time getting to know the resident's next time. It didn't have to be a sanctimonious sermon. 

On 10/2/2018 at 10:27 PM, jmonique said:

I loved season 1 and 2, but I've grown really weary of the siblings shitting on one another's moments. 
This was supposed to be about Kevin's premiere, but Kate & Co. throw down in his living room, and then Randall has Identity Issue #702. I get it, he's adopted and just as much part of the family and can carry on Jack's spirit, but dude, get off the cross. He knows what Kate meant. 

Also, Kate would be a mediocre mother at best. 

They're all way too self-involved, and I find it entertaining that Kevin is the only one who realizes that in himself and accepts it.

Also, I was over Deja a year ago. Does Randall realize he has two other kids, as well?

Agreed. As soon as I realized it was Kevin's premiere, I knew it'd all go to shit since he can never have anything. The writers really need to stop with this.

On 10/2/2018 at 10:34 PM, CleoCaesar said:

jmonique, I want to marry your entire post.

Randall's obsession with Deja is starting to really make me uncomfortable. It's too intense. It's bordering on creepy at this point. Annie and Tess, who are adorable and wonderful, are being neglected and Deja is being smothered. I'm half-expecting a storyline where he and Deja get too close, if you catch my drift.

I do catch your drift and that's disgusting to even suggest that. Why can't it just be that he identifies with this girl and wants her to be okay. He is a fixer, as others have said, and he'd want Deja to not suffer through some of the same issues he went through. Making it seem like something untoward is going to happen between the two is sickening.

[chocolatine]

45 minutes ago, plurie said:

Everyone is assuming that because teen Randall didn't go to Howard that year, that he's deferring college. He could have applied to other schools, like Pitt or Carnegie Mellon, that are closer to home and may go to one of them that very year. (This would also save money since he could commute.)

We don't known for sure that he ended up deferring. Maybe Howard notifies Rebecca of the call (because Randall is still a minor), and she tells him in no uncertain terms that he's not supposed to put his life on hold for her and make him call Howard back and cancel the deferral.

[topanga]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

It's also that people don't know what to say, or how to act, what to do, so they do nothing.  They're afraid of being too happy around the grieving person, not wanting to be brought down themselves.  And a lot of this is completely unconscious.  People don't decide to be jerks and just pull away from grieving friends.  They just do it.

But close friends don’t. She doesn’t have close friends?

 

And if Deja is going to keep her hair short, the actress needs a better wig. Seriously, looking at that wig takes me out of a scene. Even though the actress is doing a great job with the character. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by topanga

[Blakeston]

14 hours ago, LakeLover said:

I so agree. Randall gets his bio dad and his adopted dad. Two dads for the price of one. Sure, I understand he didn't know William but for a short time, but he's passed on William's genes. Seriously, it cannot have just occurred to him that he has no biological connection to Jack.

He knows he doesn't have a biological connection to Jack. What he didn't know was that Kate thinks you need a biological connection to Jack to pass down a piece of him.

That's a very hurtful thing to say when you have an adopted sibling who's struggled with being adopted his whole life. It implies that Randall doesn't have any of Jack in him, either. After all, you can't have a piece of him in you if you don't have his DNA, right?

[DebbieM4]

14 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do have to say that Rebecca may have had other friends that were also mothers with kids around the same age, but death does something to friendships.  Some people seem to think that death is somehow catching and start to pull back from the widow.  I have seen this with my mother after my dad passed away.  She has a different group of friends now than she did when my dad was still alive.  Some of the people you thought would be there for you start to pull back, but hopefully new people fill in the void. 

Yes, I realize that.  I was mostly referring to not seeing Rebecca with friends or mentioning them even prior to Jack’s death.

Edited October 5, 2018 by DebbieM4

[PRgal]

Re Chichi (or whatever her name is):  Her attitude is pretty stereotypical of some people who are worried about gentrification (as I've found online, anyway) and why I think much of the "anti-gentrification" comments are class-related rather than race/ethnicity (even though it plays a strong, strong role).  Seriously, just because you're being helped doesn't mean you're going to eventually be priced out.  And yeah, Randall probably SHOULD get to know the neighbourhood.

On biological children or at least kids who visually "fit in"  - these days, domestic adoption all about the prospective parents.  In the adoption world, at least private adoption, the birthparents pick YOU, not the other way around.  PRguy and I were considering domestic, private adoption at first, but realized (without social workers telling us so) that being an Asian/Caucasian couple pretty much puts us on the bottom of the list (especially when the Caucasian half is also Jewish).  We're probably not priority with public, either.  There are stereotypes about couples like us (you know, tiger mom, over-achiever, etc, etc..., not to mention ignorant/racist Asian immigrant relatives)...not that Kate and Toby will face the same issue, not being Asian (and having a black sibling helps).  And there aren't many Asian kids who are placed for adoption or foster care compared to other ethnic groups.  Not even in Toronto.  And due to health (why I'm not getting pregnant in the first place), international is an almost no-go for us.  However, her comment about "carrying a piece of Dad" as I probably said upthread, is insulting not only to Randall, who already has kids, but to Kevin.  Maybe there'll be an "accident..." OMG!!!  Could "her" be...Kevin and Zoe's daughter?

[Soup333]

20 hours ago, izabella said:

The family in the aftermath of Jack was the most interesting part of this episode for me.  I've been wanting to see that, so I was glad they focused on it.  I'm surprised, to a degree, that they don't seem to have family and friends around, except for Randall.  But it also seems fitting that they each seem so alone, because that is how grief can make people feel.    

I was wondering where Kevin's then girlfriend/now ex-wife was. She'd have been around at the time. I wanted to see her reaction to his spiraling and how that played into their eventual marriage.

19 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

But it wasn't like that.  Kevin and Kate weren't talking about Randall behind his back as though he was an outsider.  Kate was telling her mother that she thought she was the only member of the family capable of bringing Jack's DNA to life.  If she was insulting anyone, it was Kevin who also carries the DNA, but the implication was that he would never get his love life together enough to father a child. 

 

I know.  I guess because it's This is Us it has to be a thing and Kate has to be terrible for wanting to have a child without considering Randall's feelings first,  and Chi-chi (sp?) can't just let Randall, or his father before him,  be their generous selves (and be grateful for it) she has to take them to task for not offering  help and friendship in exactly the right way at exactly the right time.  Thank God my friends and family aren't as picky as the TIS people.

I could see almost all of them being hurt by that comment. Rebecca, Toby, Randall and Kevin - but I don't think she meant it to intentionally offend them. I just think she only considered herself in that moment and her desperation to have her own biological child that would have something of her father in it. I don't think Kate is selfish for wanting her own child but I do agree that she needs therapy.

16 hours ago, Dejana said:

No, it isn't that. Wanting to have a biological child is a perfectly ordinary (if not universal) impulse that Randall would understand perfectly well, considering that he already has two of his own. If Kate had just said, "When I married Toby, I imagined us having kids with his sense of humor and my voice, and I'm not ready to let go of that dream," or something like that, her brothers wouldn't have been offended by that sentiment. It was just Kate's attitude that only she could carry on Jack's bloodline that rankled. Maybe she wasn't thinking that being able to have Jack's biological grandchild makes her better/more special than her brothers, and it wasn't meant to be imply anything negative about Tess and Annie but IMO it's not a huge leap for someone else to feel underlying judgment in her remark.

The more I think about Kate's comment, the more disrespectful it seems all around. It was all about carrying on Jack's DNA, like that kid wouldn't be just as much Rebecca's grandchild. Of course, she was mad at her mother at the time and they have a difficult relationship, so she wouldn't think of it that way. If this were real life, I wouldn't recommend Kate becoming a mother anytime soon, but since this is a TV show... I'm kind of hoping she has 2-3 kids with at least one who looks just like Rebecca, none who resemble her father and maybe two boys, one she names Jack and the other who grows up resenting her for the favoritism.

I wouldn't even wish this on fictional children. LOL

[Empress1]

57 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

And he's black and visually doesn't "fit in" with the rest of the family.

I think the transracial piece of Randall's adoption gets overlooked a lot, and it's significant. Randall has had to deal with his own grandmother tacitly rejecting him because of his race, teenage Randall said expressly that he feels the weight of racism on his shoulders all the time and he knows his family can't understand that (I'm paraphrasing, but it was when he was visiting Howard with Jack), if I recall correctly, Kevin called out Randall's Blackness as one of the reasons Kevin wasn't the star of the family when they had that big fight, and Randall was drawn to Howard in the first place because he wants to belong somewhere. I'm not saying that Jack and Rebecca didn't eventually do a good job of recognizing that Randall is Black and his experience moving through the world is different from theirs, but his experience moving through the world IS different from theirs, and Kate's and Kevin's. There's really never a point where he's not aware of that. Toby's mother mistook Deja for one of Randall's bio kids - that can never happen with Randall. 

[Katekate]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Thank you.  I've almost decided to quit watching because of all this animosity toward Kate this week.  Now she's even being called a  racist who doesn't love Randall just because she tried, as you say, inartfully to tell her mother why she wanted to have a biological baby rather than adopt.  Does that mean any woman who wants the experience of growing and giving birth to a child is an arrogant racist who only wants a mini-me or mini-other relative to dress up? I was thrilled when my baby looked just like my husband, does that mean I didn't know he would be passing on other, more important things than his looks? Did it mean I only wanted a mini-husband to dress up in little jeans?  Where is all this coming from?

From her one short statement people are concluding that Kate doesn't appreciate the legacy Jack left to all three children or understand who he really was.  How do we jump to that?  Kate didn't bring any of that up because that didn't answer the, "Why not adopt?" question. In that family where every holiday is devoted to talking about Jack, would she have missed that most of those memories are based on things Jack did and said and not the color of his eyes? Of course not. She said nothing at all to imply that she doesn't love her nieces (who we have seen her talk and play with) or that she doesn't think of them as full family members.  Again  the "piece of Jack" phrase was in answer to why not adopt, nothing at all about it implies that anyone who doesn't have that piece of Jack is not a full family member.  Don't Tess and Annie have a huge "piece of Randall?"  Does that mean Randall and Beth have taught them to despise the Pearsons?  Kate's even being blamed for being the only girl with two brothers, as though that guarantees she's spoiled. 

Last year, Randall told Rebecca to call before dropping in and was cold to her for months,  this season Toby screams at Rebecca to shut up and her children say nothing in her defense.  The treatment of Miguel by both Randall and Kevin has become a tiny bit better but it was inexcusable at first.  I wish Rebecca and Miguel would move to Florida and never look back, I'm tired of watching them be abused.

Sorry...”we have all seen Kate talk and play with” Tess and Annie? When? I would argue the opposite. I don’t recall Kate ever interacting with the kids. Please correct me if I’m wrong ( with specific scenes).

[izabella]

2 hours ago, plurie said:

Everyone is assuming that because teen Randall didn't go to Howard that year, that he's deferring college. He could have applied to other schools, like Pitt or Carnegie Mellon, that are closer to home and may go to one of them that very year. (This would also save money since he could commute.)

Unless he already applied to other schools closer to home, he will be deferring college if he doesn't go to Howard.  He could maybe go to a community college (I don't know the application rules for that), but any other college has already filled their freshman classes and has waiting lists if anyone drops out, like Randall did.

[Jillybean]

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Haven't we seen in the flash forward that Kate tells Toby they're going to call the doctor tomorrow and get him some new meds?  So maybe the writing will move her in the direction of seeing that Toby's health, and her own, are a higher priority than trying to recreate Jack.  

IIRC, she told Toby the doctor wants to talk about adjusting his meds. Which would imply that either Toby is taking meds at that point in time, or Kate thinks he is. 

[Empress1]

25 minutes ago, Katekate said:

Sorry...”we have all seen Kate talk and play with” Tess and Annie? When? I would argue the opposite. I don’t recall Kate ever interacting with the kids. Please correct me if I’m wrong ( with specific scenes).

I can't remember her even, like, sitting next to them in a group setting. Not being flippant - I genuinely can't.

[kili]

Quote

What he didn't know was that Kate thinks you need a biological connection to Jack to pass down a piece of him.

I think part of Randall's shock is that Kate said it (he even asked for confirmation that it was she who said it). If this was coming from Kevin, he's used to it (I'm not saying that is right, I'm just saying that Kevin has spent a long time making it quite clear to Randall that they are adopted brothers and not real brothers. He's starting to change now, but there is 30+ years history of him doing it).

Kate, on the other hand, seems to have always treated Randall as her brother without the "adopted" caveat.  For Kate to have said what she said tells Randall that she's always considered him her "adopted" brother too, but just kept that notion under wraps. It's kind of earth-shattering change to a sibling relationship.

I'm actually going to cut Kate some slack on this. The doctors have made it abundantly clear that she has very poor odds to have a successful pregnancy and that the IVF process will be risky for her.  But, she really wants to have her own child which could be due to a lot of biological and personal reasons (it is a very personal journey having another person grow inside you and then to finally meet them).  Not to get into a debate whether she should responsibly want that, but she does and she has decided the risks are worth it.

Now, she's faced with her mother lecturing her to consider all the things she's already been forced to considered and decided to disregard. She's fishing for reasons to justify why she should have a baby herself and she really doesn't have a logical argument other than it is what she wants. She grasps the reason that she wants a child with Jack's DNA and she is the only one who can do that. That's patently ridiculous argument with Kevin sitting right there. And forget passing on pieces of Jack because Randall already has two lovely girls (and soon a third when the adoption is complete) who carry echoes of Jack. But, in the heat of the moment when we are trying to come up with arguments to do something that pure logic would tell you it is wrong, you come up with a half-baked argument. 

It's one of the thing that makes these characters seem real. They say and do stupid things because that's what people do. When Randall points out how horribly what she said  could be taken, in the calmness outside of her argument where she was on the defense, she'll see the error in her ways. I think. If she doesn't, humans have flaws. And humans say stupid things in heated arguments they later regret.

Edited October 4, 2018 by kili

[pennben]

By the same token, maybe Randall can put on his big boy pants and realize all that Kate is going through trying to have this child, realize that of course she didn’t mean it like he initially thought and also cut Kate some slack. 

[Conotocarious]

14 hours ago, buckboard said:

You may be right about going to Philadelphia and to the premiere not all happening in one day, but it still makes no sense for Randall to make  frequent two hour -- each way -- trips to Philadelphia and to get so involved in events happening so far from his home.

Well, yeah, that’s completely true. 

[Trillium]

Rebecca can never win can she? When Kate was little, she was too critical of Kate’s eating, then too passive about it after Jack died. I honestly don’t blame Rebecca for checking out. Kate and Kevin were nasty too her well before Jack died, and seem even worse in the aftermath.  They were almost 18 at that point and there’s zero chance they would have actually listened to her if she had tried to discipline them.  They all seemed annoyed that she wasn’t over it already. Then years later she does move on with Miguel and they crap all over that. Last season they made a lot of progress with Rebecca and Kevin, but her and Kate have a long way to go and it’s getting old and just seems like poor writing at this point. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Trillium

[roughing it]

22 minutes ago, Trillium said:

Rebecca can never win can she?

I would like to see Rebecca's story, because she is a bit player in the show.  What was her life without Jack, not just immediately after it happened, but as a single mother, before her relationship with Miguel?  We've seen bits but not her point of view.  How did she and Miguel get together?  Maybe they don't think Rebecca's story would be interesting to the viewers since she's an oldster and not part of the desired demographic.  The show is all about the Big 3, but I think Rebecca should have her part too.  

[biakbiak]

16 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

The premiere was on a Saturday. That didn’t all happen in one day.

The Philadelphia stuff definitely also happened on Saturday and it was already dark when they were leaving Philadelphia and he had to go to the house and than into NYC on a Saturday night so he must get a lot of speeding tickets. 

Edited October 4, 2018 by biakbiak

[Trillium]

15 minutes ago, roughing it said:

I would like to see Rebecca's story, because she is a bit player in the show.  What was her life without Jack, not just immediately after it happened, but as a single mother, before her relationship with Miguel?  We've seen bits but not her point of view.  How did she and Miguel get together?  Maybe they don't think Rebecca's story would be interesting to the viewers since she's an oldster and not part of the desired demographic.  The show is all about the Big 3, but I think Rebecca should have her part too.  

Absolutely agree.  There’s a lot more they can do with her. But no, we get more made up St William stories for no reason. 

[ThisIsMe]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I think the transracial piece of Randall's adoption gets overlooked a lot, and it's significant. Randall has had to deal with his own grandmother tacitly rejecting him because of his race, teenage Randall said expressly that he feels the weight of racism on his shoulders all the time and he knows his family can't understand ...

I completely agree.  I am really tired of reading all of the posts saying that Randall needs to "get over this," "put on his big boy pants," etc.  That's pretty much the equivalent of saying "get over being black," "get over being adopted," "get over the way you feel."  Wow.

[Ohiopirate02]

49 minutes ago, roughing it said:

I would like to see Rebecca's story, because she is a bit player in the show.  What was her life without Jack, not just immediately after it happened, but as a single mother, before her relationship with Miguel?  We've seen bits but not her point of view.  How did she and Miguel get together?  Maybe they don't think Rebecca's story would be interesting to the viewers since she's an oldster and not part of the desired demographic.  The show is all about the Big 3, but I think Rebecca should have her part too.  

I agree.  I want to know how Rebecca remade her life after losing Jack and then the kids moving out.  What kind of job did she have since there is no way that Jack left her enough money to never work again.  Did she go back to school?  What made her decide to move across the state besides Randall?  Did she consider moving to California to be near her other two kids?  There is a lot of story there for the writers to mine.

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, Katekate said:

Sorry...”we have all seen Kate talk and play with” Tess and Annie? When? I would argue the opposite. I don’t recall Kate ever interacting with the kids. Please correct me if I’m wrong ( with specific scenes).

 

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I can't remember her even, like, sitting next to them in a group setting. Not being flippant - I genuinely can't.

I don't have any recordings or transcripts and I wasn't expecting to have to find documentation (with specific scenes), anymore than the people who say she doesn't like children have provided proof,  but I definitely remember Kate playing a game with the little girls, sitting on the sofa with  them cuddled up to her,  and other background moments that made it look, to me at least, like she loved them and was close to them.

I did find this on YouTube:  See specific scene at 1:05 .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIDnVI1Kbh0

[Soup333]

2 hours ago, pennben said:

By the same token, maybe Randall can put on his big boy pants and realize all that Kate is going through trying to have this child, realize that of course she didn’t mean it like he initially thought and also cut Kate some slack. 

In order for him to “put on his big boy pants” they’d have to have a conversation about what was said. There no “of course she didn’t mean it like that” when he wasn’t privvy to what was said. He only knows what Kevin told him. And he’d literally just told his wife he felt AGAIN like he didn’t fit it. With that fresh in his mind how likely is it that his response to what Kevin told him Kate said is going to be “oh, my dear sister couldn’t POSSIBLY have meant it to hurt my feelings”?? 

36 minutes ago, ThisIsMe said:

I completely agree.  I am really tired of reading all of the posts saying that Randall needs to "get over this," "put on his big boy pants," etc.  That's pretty much the equivalent of saying "get over being black," "get over being adopted," "get over the way you feel."  Wow.

Word. It’s messed up to dismiss someone’s trauma this way.