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S06.E18: The Visions of Norman P. Horowitz

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in Elementary [V]

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johntfs

johntfs

On 8/22/2018 at 4:35 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

including the murder of Sherlock Holmes.

I'm suddenly very nervous for that Irish dude from last week's episode who was using Sherlock's A number.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

I am ignorant about menswear, so: Was Jonny Lee Miller wearing a white tuxedo? And no one remarked about it in any of the homes he and Joan visited for the case while he was still wearing it (although he change pants at one point)? 

 

I liked this episode--good plot; nice notes of dry humor--but one thing that kept bugging me was the answer in the end--which, in Sherlockian parlance, I "readily deduced early on," that is: 
If Norman P. Horowitz cannot predict the future, and if they saw the woman commit suicide, then she must have been coerced into it.
It just wasn't how I suspected (money for her into an offshore account to care for a family member after she died).

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

Yeah, I figured it was the brother and sister in law right away, but I thought it was still a cool mystery. And the guy from Hound of the Baskervilles is back! The continuity fairy is all over the place this year, as well as Cannon Von Shout-Out!

The running subplot of Sherlock wanting to leave stuff to Joan was both funny and sweet. Especially Joan wondering how he would posthumously prove that she didnt murder him for his inheritance. And the use of ugly orange highlighters to motivate them to solve the case sooner. 

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

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So many little things to love in this episode: Watson's long black coat, Sherlock's hatred of orange highlighters, Joan assuming she'd be a suspect in Sherlock's death, Sherlock roaming New York in a tuxedo.

As with SVU, the recognizable guest star is usually the bad guy so as soon as Christian Borle showed up at the brownstone, I knew he was the one behind it all. Then Guy Patterson reappeared and I considered the possibility that he was somehow in on it. I loved that when he showed up at the brownstone later, he saw the boxes being delivered and knew it was gold. Later when Sherlock was constructing Gold Stonehenge, Mr. EB said, "He should be playing Jenga with those."

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Vermicious Knid

Vermicious Knid

It's Grand Central Terminal. And there is no channel 10. But apart from that, good episode. I just chalk everyone ignoring Sherlock's outfit up to typical New Yorker blase-ness. Tuxedo jacket? Eh *shrug*. It's nothing compared to the Village on a hot summer night.

So, I don't remember the Baskerville episode at all.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)
2 hours ago, oldCJ said:

It bothered me when Watson said “you did the right thing calling us” to Norman’s brother, because he didn’t call them. 

Maybe as in "calling on us"?

 

 

2 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

I just chalk everyone ignoring Sherlock's outfit up to typical New Yorker blase-ness. Tuxedo jacket? Eh*shrug*

And now I'm flashing back to my late 30s when a bff gf and I were giggling about how we at least still looked good with our clothes on (which lasted through age 60). But even though JLM is 45, he still looks buff enough to easily go shirtless. I guess they just wanted to show off his tux-worthiness as well. And this type of show won't get any Emmys in today's glutted pool of competitors, so he might as well get to wear a tux in the show.

Edited by shapeshifter
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Trey

Trey

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I am ignorant about menswear, so: Was Jonny Lee Miller wearing a white tuxedo? And no one remarked about it in any of the homes he and Joan visited for the case while he was still wearing it (although he change pants at one point)? 

I believe Henry Baskerville told Sherlock he looked nice.

I really enjoyed this episode.  In addition to all the good things already mentioned, I really liked that Sherlock gave away all his money to charities, mostly to those Joan was interested in. 

I thought the drug from a very rare plant was a bit of a stretch when simple post-hypnotic suggestion would have done just as well.  Of course it did point Sherlock in the right direction to find the guilty pair. Because, of course, Sherlock would recognize that very rare plant in a picture.

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

It was the sixteenth episode of Season Four and was entitled "Hounded."

Thanks.  I couldn't remember him either so I found a recap of the episode and now I remember it.

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gesundheit

gesundheit

That was a fun one. Admittedly I suspected the sister-in-law early on but not the brother himself.

Poor Joan, thought she'd be rich for life and now she gets...nothing? Except a brownstone she can't afford taxes on, presumably.

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shrewd.buddha

shrewd.buddha

(edited)

It is still surreal to have new episodes during August. This is the time of year for burn-offs and bad summer television: The Dome, Salvation, Whatever that Halle Barry Show Was. 

Note to producers: When your show has the same name as the lead character, it is not at all likely that said character will be killed. So there was not a lot of tension - just a frustration that Sherlock did not take the simplest route:  stay indoors during the 24-hour period and prove the prediction wrong. 

Tho I mostly like Elementry - the show - I can see why it struggles ratings-wise. There is little to no action and both lead characters are deliberately deadpan. There is just a lot of exposition, people looking at files, looking at computer screens, talking to suspects and Sherlock conducting the occasional wacky experiment. 

Edited by shrewd.buddha
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johntfs

johntfs

19 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Note to producers: When your show has the same name as the lead character, it is not at all likely that said character will be killed. So there was not a lot of tension - just a frustration that Sherlock did not take the simplest route:  stay indoors during the 24-hour period and prove the prediction wrong. 

Sherlock and Joan didn't really care about proving the prediction wrong.  They pretty much knew it was bullshit.  The point to them was that three people had died and likely been murdered to make the prediction seem real.  There was no tension about Sherlock's life being in danger.  The tension was in figuring out who killed three people and why they wanted to make the prediction(s) seem real before they achieved whatever goal they were trying to achieve.

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possibilities

possibilities

8 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

So, I don't remember the Baskerville episode at all.

It was a robot chasing people in the woods, IIRC. They were confused for a long time until they realized it was a machine and not a mammal doing the damage. It's kind of vague in my memory, but I do remember the lights of the robot eyes.

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iMonrey

iMonrey

Quote

It was the sixteenth episode of Season Four and was entitled "Hounded."

I don't remember the episode at all, although I took it at face value we had seen Henry Baskerville before. But I spent most of the episode assuming he was the murderer by sheer virtue of the actor's name recognition. 

I loved the visual of Sherlock sitting on the floor building a Stonehenge-like structure out of the gold bars.

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illdoc

illdoc

4 hours ago, Trey said:

when simple post-hypnotic suggestion would have done just as well.

Because...the brother was a psychiatrist whose victim was a patient that he could give a post-hypnotic suggestion to? I mean, it's not like you could grab a random person on the street and hypnotize them! (not that the brother was a psychiatrist, of course). Furthermore, I believe that under hypnosis, there are certain things you cannot make a person do. In an episode of Columbo, the psychiatrist couldn't make the victim commit suicide, but he did convince her that she was standing on a diving board and just diving into a pool. Which could be done in this case, but not the car accident victim (if it wasn't an accident). However, that rare illegal drug? I saw in some series (can't remember which (CSI maybe)) that they just put it on some flowers that they sent to the victim, who, of course, smelled the flowers and was immediately under the spell (the killer had them put on a bomb vest, go to a location, and blow themselves up). 

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Trey

Trey

(edited)
19 minutes ago, illdoc said:

Because...the brother was a psychiatrist whose victim was a patient that he could give a post-hypnotic suggestion to? I mean, it's not like you could grab a random person on the street and hypnotize them! (not that the brother was a psychiatrist, of course). Furthermore, I believe that under hypnosis, there are certain things you cannot make a person do. In an episode of Columbo, the psychiatrist couldn't make the victim commit suicide, but he did convince her that she was standing on a diving board and just diving into a pool. Which could be done in this case, but not the car accident victim (if it wasn't an accident). However, that rare illegal drug? I saw in some series (can't remember which (CSI maybe)) that they just put it on some flowers that they sent to the victim, who, of course, smelled the flowers and was immediately under the spell (the killer had them put on a bomb vest, go to a location, and blow themselves up). 

I suppose...since they already had that very rare plant on hand.  But I think they could have arranged the post hypnotic suggestion if they really wanted to - bigger stretches have been made in various shows.  I do remember that plot you mention but can't remember what show it was either.

Edited by Trey
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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

Cool seeing Henry Baskerville again!

So, the whole thing about groups of people believing we're all living in a simulation is basically taking the idea from The Matrix way too seriously, huh?  But I'm sure there really are people out there who believe it.  Granted, the case ends up revealing that the murders were partially done thanks to a drug that can almost control people's minds, so always expect the unexpected!

For a second, I thought that Michael was going to behind Sherlock's stolen money.  I did love Bell's look when Sherlock off-handily mentioned the gold bars currently lying on their table back at the Brownstone.

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MissLucas

MissLucas

(edited)

Well that was a great episode all around. I suspected the sister-in-law but not the brother - the motive and method  were the mystery. I loved Sherlock and Watson's determination to find Occam's Razor, learning about simulation theory (since there are flat-earthers I find simulation theorists not really surprising), golden Stonehenge, the Rumpelstiltskin joke, Watson's black coat (my personal favorite in her whole wardrobe), the hatred for orange highlighters (which I don't share - it's my preferred shade) and I thought the ending quite touching. I'm sure Watson prefers this to gains from vice stocks.

Edited by MissLucas
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biakbiak

biakbiak

(edited)
6 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

When your show has the same name as the lead character, it is not at all likely that said character will be killed. So there was not a lot of tension - just a frustration that Sherlock did not take the simplest route:  stay indoors during the 24-hour period and prove the prediction wrong. 

Not that I thought he was going to be killed but this show isn’t named Sherlock.

I have lived in Manhattan and routinely went to Grand Central to take Metro North to my parents house in CT and have never heard anyone use Terminal even though it’s its official name. Everyone I know says Grand Central or Grand Central Station.

14 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

It's Grand Central Terminal

Edited by biakbiak
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Magnumfangirl

Magnumfangirl

6 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Poor Joan, thought she'd be rich for life and now she gets...nothing?

I agree,  Sherlock giving away ALL the money was shortsighted and stupid, but I don't like the "Morland and his money are EVIL" crap from Sherlock.  The show hasn't really given us a reason to believe Morland is evil, it makes Sherlock look like one of those trustfundarians that hates daddy just because he needs something to rebel against.

Quote

Except a brownstone she can't afford taxes on, presumably.

Sherlock said she'd have to sell the brownstone to pay the taxes on the financial holdings she would inherit.  I'm sure the taxes on a Brooklyn brownstone are sky high, but not that high. 

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illdoc

illdoc

(edited)
1 hour ago, Magnumfangirl said:

Sherlock said she'd have to sell the brownstone to pay the taxes on the financial holdings she would inherit.  I'm sure the taxes on a Brooklyn brownstone are sky high, but not that high. 

I think it was "you'd have to sell the brownstone IF you can't afford the taxes on the financial holdings (not just the brownstone)", which led her to check the amount of the financial holdings (since Sherlock had no idea), which lead to the discovery of the embezzlement.

Edited by illdoc
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mtlchick

mtlchick

21 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

So... they went to the trouble of editing the document so that it predicted Sherlock's death for August 30, but everyone is dressed in winter clothes...

Looks like she directed her episode end of March.  I was in NYC at the time and it was pretty breezy and cold.   And there was a freak snowstorm the next week so if they were shooting outdoors that day, good luck trying to pass that off as hot and humid September!

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shrewd.buddha

shrewd.buddha

(edited)
1 hour ago, Magnumfangirl said:

Sherlock said she'd have to sell the brownstone to pay the taxes on the financial holdings she would inherit.

I did not  follow the logic there. So, you inherit a billion dollars and have to pay taxes on it ... But you just inherited a billion dollars, so... are you not a billionaire? 

Edited by shrewd.buddha
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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Cool seeing Henry Baskerville again!

I always like seeing Tom Everett Scott, although I'm never sure if it's him or Peter Hermann, LOL.

 

3 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Not that I thought he was going to be killed but this show isn’t named Sherlock.

Still, when the main character's life is in danger, it's challenging to write a story that keeps the viewers' interest. I think they succeeded here.

 

 

Funny stuff:

16 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

So many little things to love in this episode: Watson's long black coat, Sherlock's hatred of orange highlighters, Joan assuming she'd be a suspect in Sherlock's death, Sherlock roaming New York in a tuxedo.

and:

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

golden Stonehenge, the Rumpelstiltskin joke

Sherlock: It's impossible to get anyone on the phone at the Federal Reserve. I don't know why converting bullion to usable currency has to be so difficult.

Joan: You know, I think Rumpelstiltskin used to say the same thing.

and:

Joan: You gotta get down here before these symphony people find out I can't play the tuba. 

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MissLucas

MissLucas

4 minutes ago, PaulaO said:

I could watch Sherlock conducting on an endless loop.  What was the song he was conducting?

Town Called Malice by The Jam - also used in the Billy Elliot soundtrack. I loved the disconnect between Sherlock's outfit and conductor prep which misled the audience to expect something classical. Which would have been in line with the orchestra case they were working on. I guess the name Horowitz was also no coincidence. I was waiting for some murdery shenanigans at the NY Philharmonic.

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Moxie Cat

Moxie Cat

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

loved Sherlock and Watson's determination to find Occam's Razor

I was impressed that this term was dropped without an explanation as to what it was, and would speculate that this might be a good example of why the show doesn't have a larger audience (as mentioned upthread). I wouldn't change their expectation of the audience's ability though, - I enjoy it - even though I was a bit muddled with the "true theory believers" in this ep. Always love seeing Guy Patterson though!

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LisaM

LisaM

I was sure it was the brother as soon as I recognized Christian Borle. 

Loved Sherlock's deduction about how the brother and his wife were going to escape without passports. 

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rainsmom

rainsmom

2 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I did not  follow the logic there. So, you inherit a billion dollars and have to pay taxes on it ... But you just inherited a billion dollars, so... are you not a billionaire? 

Indeed you are, but it's highly likely that the money isn't liquid -- or not liquid without tax penalties.

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AnimeMania

AnimeMania

2 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

I did not  follow the logic there. So, you inherit a billion dollars and have to pay taxes on it ... But you just inherited a billion dollars, so... are you not a billionaire? 

Yes,... and just that fast no.

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MisterGlass

MisterGlass

Joan may still inherit some money from Sherlock.  He gave away what he's already gotten from his father.  He said he got the stocks when he became an adult.  When Morland was writing his new will some episodes back, Sherlock also indicated that he wanted most things to go to charity.  That would mean Joan wouldn't inherit anything, or much of anything, that came via Morland.  However, Sherlock has been a working detective for a couple of decades, and he's handled some very high profile clients.  He may have received some payment from them, and Joan could inherit that money.

I loved gold Stonehenge.  There were also a lot of good little quips and asides.  I liked Joan's search for a common user name between platforms, and trying to find a stray Yelp review that would give the person away.  That sounds both mundane and very feasible.

I looked up scopolamine, which I'm used to seeing as an anti-nausea patch and as a truth serum in old movies.  It appears it can reduce inhibitions and be used as a roofie in higher doses.  Searching for 'scopolamine mind control' found a ton of conspiracy websites and one Snopes article.

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Loandbehold

Loandbehold

18 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

It's Grand Central Terminal.

Not necessarily. Grand Central Station works and, for this native New Yorker is much more common (and is also the name of the subway stop), even though Metro North might refer to it as Terminal. Also, just saying Grand Central is enough for most people. 

I liked a lot of this episode. From Sherlock's will to Joan's concern that she would be the prime suspect in his death to gold Stonehenge to Rumplestiltskin to orange highlighters. Only thing missing was Clyde. 

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sheetmoss

sheetmoss

(edited)

Scopolamine  was used as part of the plotline, on a recent episode of  Take Two on ABC  It was used as a roffie on the two leads.

One of the things I'm enjoying more and more about Elementary is how they're really ramping up Sherlock's eccentricities and quirkiness.

Edited by sheetmoss
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CaptainCranky

CaptainCranky

19 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

 

Tho I mostly like Elementry - the show - I can see why it struggles ratings-wise. There is little to no action and both lead characters are deliberately deadpan. There is just a lot of exposition, people looking at files, looking at computer screens, talking to suspects and Sherlock conducting the occasional wacky experiment. 

There are enough action packed shows on TV now so one like Elementary that has solid characters and good well written story lines is something I enjoy. Too much mayhem and violence on TV as it is so this is a refreshing change of pace. If the general TV audience can't enjoy something different it's their loss. The subtle nuances of the show make it something most people won't enjoy.

This was another outstanding show. I love that the writers continue to explore the Holmes and Watson relationship. Having Holmes to consider his life and how it affects those around him rings true to me as I'm a two time cancer survivor and the type of things I consider for my family and friends.

Right now season 6 might be the best season for character development and story lines.

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nora1992

nora1992

I enjoyed this episode (Stonehenge!).  After watching, it felt like this was one of the extra episodes ordered for the season - no connection to any other episode or the soon-to-reappear Michael.  I’m also happy to have a break from summer re-runs.

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PaulaO

PaulaO

Clyde should have been weaving in and out of gold Stonehenge.  When I heard "scopolamine" I thought WTF???  I've had it for post-anesthesia nausea and vomiting. 

The brother killed the nutter so he could sell the black book to Baskerville?  Is that correct?  And the brother killed the obituary people to show that nutter could "predict the future"?

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aemom

aemom

3 hours ago, CaptainCranky said:

There are enough action packed shows on TV now so one like Elementary that has solid characters and good well written story lines is something I enjoy. Too much mayhem and violence on TV as it is so this is a refreshing change of pace. If the general TV audience can't enjoy something different it's their loss. The subtle nuances of the show make it something most people won't enjoy.

This was another outstanding show. I love that the writers continue to explore the Holmes and Watson relationship. Having Holmes to consider his life and how it affects those around him rings true to me as I'm a two time cancer survivor and the type of things I consider for my family and friends.

Right now season 6 might be the best season for character development and story lines.

I agree.  I was very keen on watching this show when it first started because I had seen JLM on Eli Stone and Dexter and I was very impressed.  I also like Lucy Liu and was intrigued about having a female Watson.

This show has really exceeded my expectations for a network TV show.

1 minute ago, PaulaO said:

Clyde should have been weaving in and out of gold Stonehenge.  When I heard "scopolamine" I thought WTF???  I've had it for post-anesthesia nausea and vomiting. 

The brother killed the nutter so he could sell the black book to Baskerville?  Is that correct?  And the brother killed the obituary people to show that nutter could "predict the future"?

You got it.

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McKinley

McKinley

I really wanted to like this ep. The premise was fun, loved Watson and Holmes all dressed up!

But the conclusion was too much. A person who presumably never killed anyone before, motivated by greed, kills his brother and then stages the serial killings of people while: (1) making the killings look like non crimes while constrained in (2) choice of victim (3) choice of date and (4) method of killing. 

Even if you assume he chose the “easiest” killings to carry out, and destroyed any intervening obituaries, this really stretches credulity.  

And they didn’t explain the car wreck but I assume it was under the influence of the drug also ?

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Trey

Trey

15 minutes ago, McKinley said:

And they didn’t explain the car wreck but I assume it was under the influence of the drug also ?

Either that or a loosened bolt or nut.

Not sure how they got the fellow to die from cancer - a bit of poison in his chemo, I guess.

The only murder that really needed the drug from the very rare plant was the woman who jumped off the roof.

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theatremouse

theatremouse

9 hours ago, Trey said:

Not sure how they got the fellow to die from cancer - a bit of poison in his chemo, I guess.

I might have this wrong but I thought the cancer one may have actually died for real, coincidentally matching the prediction, giving the brother the idea to start making more of them "come true" and the plan evolved from there.

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Twilight Man

Twilight Man

(edited)
On 8/28/2018 at 11:38 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

It is still surreal to have new episodes during August. This is the time of year for burn-offs and bad summer television: The Dome, Salvation, Whatever that Halle Barry Show Was.

 

Extant.

I also miss whatever insanity "Zoo" is coming up with this week.

and don't forget Taxi Brooklyn, where a female police detective lost her driver's license

and must now work with a Brookyln taxi driver (no, seriously).

As Joel McHale used to say, The Summer Season of Silly Shows is the gift that keeps on giving.

Edited by Twilight Man
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