Gimme That Old Time Religion

[ginger90]

7 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

About 6 months ago, Independent Lens aired an excellent documentary on Ham and the creation of the Ark Encounter. He had a creationist "scientist" on staff who actually had a doctorate (and was a woman!). I wish I could remember the name of it; maybe it's available on PBS's website. It's definitely worth the 90 minutes to get inside of Ham's brain. 

It may have been, "We Believe in Dinosaurs" .

[GeeGolly]

22 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

It may have been, "We Believe in Dinosaurs" .

Or We Believe in the Flintstones.

[Nysha]

10 hours ago, Zella said:

Unfortunately, I don't think many people are swayed by logic and reason in most instances.

No, especially people who buy into the young earth belief. They're proud of themselves for rejecting the ways of world because that brings them closer to Jesus and make them better than everyone else.

In one of the christian schools I went to we were required to chant the following every day after saying the pledge to both the American flag and the christian flag. "God said it, in his word. I believe it, it my heart. That settles it, forever." There is no wriggle room for logic, critical thinking, or reality.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Nysha said:

No, especially people who buy into the young earth belief. They're proud of themselves for rejecting the ways of world because that brings them closer to Jesus and make them better than everyone else.

In one of the christian schools I went to we were required to chant the following every day after saying the pledge to both the American flag and the christian flag. "God said it, in his word. I believe it, it my heart. That settles it, forever." There is no wriggle room for logic, critical thinking, or reality.

All very true, unfortunately. 

I wasn't really thinking about the people in the churches. I was thinking about the fact that people -- slowly but steadily -- have been leaving these churches for some years now and continue to leave, and that they leavers are mostly younger people. I thought maybe that steady leak would dampen his confidence somewhat, as society at large is slowly moving away from Christian fundamentalism and -- maybe! -- from its extreme level of anti-science sentiment. 

But I guess the fact that the churches and their remaining congregants are on board with his nonsense as fervently as -- or maybe even more fervently than -- they've ever been has really emboldened him.

And Ham's earned his increased boldness, since his work has been a huge driver of the anti-evolution views. Those two madly anti-intellectual theme parks that he had the taxpayers build for him within easy driving distance of some 69 million people, as he famously said, have succeeded mightily at reinforcing many of those millions' desire to abandon logic and facts completely. 

Great. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

All very true, unfortunately. 

I wasn't really thinking about the people in the churches. I was thinking about the fact that people -- slowly but steadily -- have been leaving these churches for some years now and continue to leave, and that they leavers are mostly younger people. I thought maybe that steady leak would dampen his confidence somewhat, as society at large is slowly moving away from Christian fundamentalism and -- maybe! -- from its extreme level of anti-science sentiment. 

But I guess the fact that the churches and their remaining congregants are on board with his nonsense as fervently as -- or maybe even more fervently than -- they've ever been has really emboldened him.

And Ham's earned his increased boldness, since his work has been a huge driver of the anti-evolution views. Those two madly anti-intellectual theme parks that he had the taxpayers build for him within easy driving distance of some 69 million people, as he famously said, have succeeded mightily at reinforcing many of those millions' desire to abandon logic and facts completely. 

Great. 

What's weird with Ham is he is well aware of the trend of younger people leaving church. But instead of it causing any soul searching, he just blames a more lax church environment and offers his own ideas as the solution to the problem. 

[Churchhoney]

27 minutes ago, Zella said:

What's weird with Ham is he is well aware of the trend of younger people leaving church. But instead of it causing any soul searching, he just blames a more lax church environment and offers his own ideas as the solution to the problem. 

Must have one of those one-track minds......He has big success doing things one way....and then decides that way will work for everything? 

That might come from both his rigid thinking and his doggedness and determination, I suppose. 

Hopefully it'll work less well for him as time goes on.....

Or maybe he's very forward-thinking and figures he's conned enough suckers to feather his own nest very well for his lifetime and that there's no reason for him to worry about what happens after that. He's pushing 70, after all. His remaining fundie fans will probably be more than enough to give him a comfortable lifestyle for the next quarter century! 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Churchhoney

[awaken]

8 hours ago, Nysha said:

In one of the christian schools I went to we were required to chant the following every day after saying the pledge to both the American flag and the christian flag. "God said it, in his word. I believe it, it my heart. That settles it, forever." There is no wriggle room for logic, critical thinking, or reality.

That reminds me of a song we’d sing in Sunday school, Christian school, and summer camp that went:  “god said it, I believe it, that’s good enough for me!”

[Nysha]

Given how many non-religious people are flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers, and believe Michelle Obama is a trans man named Michael, the world has no shortage of deluded citizens with no concept of logic or critical thinking.

[PikaScrewChu]

23 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Given how many non-religious people are flat-earthers, anti-vaxxers, and believe Michelle Obama is a trans man named Michael, the world has no shortage of deluded citizens with no concept of logic or critical thinking.

My aunt's boyfriend falls into this category. Full out distrust of organized religion but vaccines contain microchips, they're going to take his guns, etc. etc.

He sends my parents very long and verbose conspiracy theories.

He supports the LGBTQ community though. That's about the only plus. 

[MaryAnneSpier]

On 6/19/2020 at 8:59 AM, Nysha said:

 

In one of the christian schools I went to we were required to chant the following every day after saying the pledge to both the American flag and the christian flag. "God said it, in his word. I believe it, it my heart. That settles it, forever." There is no wriggle room for logic, critical thinking, or reality.

That's interesting because my Christian school had us pledge every day to the American flag, the Christian flag, and the Bible. But our pledge to the Christian flag was different than yours: "I pledge alliegance to the Christian flag, and to one saviour for whose kingdom it stands. One brotherhood, uniting all Christians, in service and in love." That may not be it precisely (it's been a good 25 years since that time) but I'd never encountered such a blatently stated pledge to disregard any room for knowledge and logic. 

[Nysha]

@MaryAnneSpier, my sentence was kind of garbled. We said the same flag pledge you did, then we chanted the other phrase. We were taught to be very proud of our refusal to think for ourselves.

[EAG46]

What does the Christian flag look like?  I've never heard of it before. Did someone see the Israeli flag and feel jealous that their religion didn't have a flag? [Not that the flag of the State of Israel = the flag for all Jews everywhere but you get my point.] 

 

 

 

[Zella]

18 minutes ago, EAG46 said:

What does the Christian flag look like?  I've never heard of it before. Did someone see the Israeli flag and feel jealous that their religion didn't have a flag? [Not that the flag of the State of Israel = the flag for all Jews everywhere but you get my point.] 

 

 

 

It actually predates the founding of Israel (though to be fair that flag is also older than the founding). The Christian flag was designed in the early 20th century and started being formally adopted in the early 1940s.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Zella

[crazy8s]

fun fact when my son was in Boy Scouts many years ago, his troop was sponsored by an evangelical church.  every Feb on scout sunday they did a service with the scouts in attendance but they were not allowed to carry in the american flag or the christian flag.

rational was the american flag was always in the sanctuary and the christian flag was from the crusades of long ago and they wouldn't allow it to be honored

[Zella]

36 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

fun fact when my son was in Boy Scouts many years ago, his troop was sponsored by an evangelical church.  every Feb on scout sunday they did a service with the scouts in attendance but they were not allowed to carry in the american flag or the christian flag.

rational was the american flag was always in the sanctuary and the christian flag was from the crusades of long ago and they wouldn't allow it to be honored

I'm no expert--literally just procrastinating and reading about flags rather than doing anything productive today--but I think the troop may have been incorrect in what they told you about that flag and the Crusades. There certainly were Christian flags with crosses used in the Crusades, but it isn't the same one that is recognized now. That was designed in the early 1900s in America by a Methodist with the express purpose of being a ecumenical flag. 

I wonder what denomination this church was. I can't say that I actually saw a Christian flag in any of the Pentecostal-ish churches I attended as a child, and perhaps they are less likely to accept it and regard it suspiciously than a more mainline denomination. 

[crazy8s]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

I'm no expert--literally just procrastinating and reading about flags rather than doing anything productive today--but I think the troop may have been incorrect in what they told you about that flag and the Crusades. There certainly were Christian flags with crosses used in the Crusades, but it isn't the same one that is recognized now. That was designed in the early 1900s in America by a Methodist with the express purpose of being a ecumenical flag. 

I wonder what denomination this church was. I can't say that I actually saw a Christian flag in any of the Pentecostal-ish churches I attended as a child, and perhaps they are less likely to accept it and regard it suspiciously than a more mainline denomination. 

it wasn't the scout troop that said it - it was the church that wouldn't allow it. An ELCA church evangelical lutheran church of america

Edited June 22, 2020 by crazy8s

[latetotheparty]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

I'm no expert--literally just procrastinating and reading about flags rather than doing anything productive today--but I think the troop may have been incorrect in what they told you about that flag and the Crusades. There certainly were Christian flags with crosses used in the Crusades, but it isn't the same one that is recognized now. That was designed in the early 1900s in America by a Methodist with the express purpose of being a ecumenical flag. 

I wonder what denomination this church was. I can't say that I actually saw a Christian flag in any of the Pentecostal-ish churches I attended as a child, and perhaps they are less likely to accept it and regard it suspiciously than a more mainline denomination. 

I’m from a mainline denomination (UCC) and I’ve never heard of the Christian flag. Ever. 

[Zella]

1 minute ago, latetotheparty said:

I’m from a mainline denomination (UCC) and I’ve never heard of the Christian flag. Ever. 

Yeah I think it must vary considerably by denomination and even church. I was taken aback by people talking about doing a pledge to it. I've never heard of that before, but obviously it's a thing for some churches/places. 

[Churchhoney]

38 minutes ago, latetotheparty said:

I’m from a mainline denomination (UCC) and I’ve never heard of the Christian flag. Ever. 

That has always kind of varied church to church, rather than denomination to denomination, I think. Maybe because local groups of churches of different denominations trying to work together thought it might be helpful? 

 I'm from UCC as well, and the church I grew up in did hang the particular flag Zella's pointed out in the church's meeting hall (not the sanctuary). It was still there the last time I was there, too, I'm pretty sure. 

The only time I remember it being talked about was in my confirmation class, when our minister was talking about ecumenism and explaining why he thought that an ecumenical approach was vital for giving Christianity a strong future and a role in improving the country and the world. He mentioned that the flag had been intended as a symbol of that.  

Nobody ever pledged anything to it in my church. It was just a reminder of the church's ecumenical intentions and that there was something bigger going on than just our church's particular doings, the minister said.

I know that the adult groups and classes in the church also discussed ecumenism and focused on projects aimed at developing it, so I expect they at least mentioned the flag, too. 

Flag wasn't a big deal, though, although ecumenism was a big deal in my particular church for some years.

I know I also saw the flag in some other local churches (of different denominations) that my church worked with, too.

I would be surprised if that particular flag had turned up in any evangelical churches in my town, though. Because it was the mainline progressive churches that were invested in ecumenism and social activism and such......

Although maybe some conservative churches just attached a different meaning to it? I'd guess they had a different flag, really, but who knows? 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

I grew up in a mainline progressive church and never saw that flag. When my parents went to the other end of the spectrum and switched to Dutch Reformed when I was about 15, I don't recall seeing a cross flag there, either.

[latetotheparty]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

That has always kind of varied church to church, rather than denomination to denomination, I think. Maybe because local groups of churches of different denominations trying to work together thought it might be helpful? 

 I'm from UCC as well, and the church I grew up in did hang the particular flag Zella's pointed out in the church's meeting hall (not the sanctuary). It was still there the last time I was there, too, I'm pretty sure. 

The only time I remember it being talked about was in my confirmation class, when our minister was talking about ecumenism and explaining why he thought that an ecumenical approach was vital for giving Christianity a strong future and a role in improving the country and the world. He mentioned that the flag had been intended as a symbol of that.  

Nobody ever pledged anything to it in my church. It was just a reminder of the church's ecumenical intentions and that there was something bigger going on than just our church's particular doings, the minister said.

I know that the adult groups and classes in the church also discussed ecumenism and focused on projects aimed at developing it, so I expect they at least mentioned the flag, too. 

Flag wasn't a big deal, though, although ecumenism was a big deal in my particular church for some years.

I know I also saw the flag in some other local churches (of different denominations) that my church worked with, too.

I would be surprised if that particular flag had turned up in any evangelical churches in my town, though. Because it was the mainline progressive churches that were invested in ecumenism and social activism and such......

Although maybe some conservative churches just attached a different meaning to it? I'd guess they had a different flag, really, but who knows? 

I think you’re right. The UCC especially can vary greatly congregation to congregation due to the way it’s structured. I’m just surprised, I guess, since I’ve been taught about ecumenism since I was very young and have never seen it. 

[Churchhoney]

59 minutes ago, latetotheparty said:

I think you’re right. The UCC especially can vary greatly congregation to congregation due to the way it’s structured. I’m just surprised, I guess, since I’ve been taught about ecumenism since I was very young and have never seen it. 

Well, it's probably just because the flag catches some people's fancy and not others'.

Quite possible that a bunch of church leaders pursuing ecumenism in my town got together, a couple of them really liked the flag and thought'd be cool to share a common symbol, and the rest didn't mind doing it. .... So they ordered 10 flags, put them up in 10 churches and that was the whole story! 

[Nysha]

When I was in the 6th-8th grade my family went to Foursquare Pentecostal churches. We didn't pledge the flag in church, we did it in the church schools, after we pledged to the US flag. 

As an adult I went to the Wesleyan church for about 10 years and they had the christian flag on the podium along with the US flag, but we never said the pledge to it. 

[sixlets]

I went to an AOG church school from 1st-4th grades, and we did pledges to the American flag, the Christian flag, and the Bible.  It was never done in church on Sunday, but we did it every school day.  At the time, I never didn't think of it, but looking back, it was some crazy ass shit.  

[Temperance]

There's a youtube video by youtuber named Anthony Padilla. It's called I Spent a Day with Ex-cult members.  He's talks to two people one is named Ruhan (his group is kind of sex group). The other is named Brooke and her group was the Institute of Basic Life Principles (the group founded by Bill Gothard).  It's one video, but people here might want to watch it. 

[GeeGolly]

It seems no churches are exempt from carelessness around covid. An all boys Catholic school edited their graduation video and lied in an email about wearing masks, when a student and his brother both tested positive.

And a rally was held in TX, at a Baptist church with choir members singing without masks. This was after choir members from this same church became ill with covid.

[madpsych78]

On 7/2/2020 at 1:51 AM, Temperance said:

There's a youtube video by youtuber named Anthony Padilla. It's called I Spent a Day with Ex-cult members.  He's talks to two people one is named Ruhan (his group is kind of sex group). The other is named Brooke and her group was the Institute of Basic Life Principles (the group founded by Bill Gothard).  It's one video, but people here might want to watch it. 

Brooke has her own website, which they mention in the video. She is also involved with The Brooke Arnold Project which is a podcast and documentary on those who are former cult members, including ATI. People have the option of providing information anonymously. 

https://www.unclebrooke.com/the-podcast

I feel like this needs to be passed on to the Dillards...

Edited July 3, 2020 by madpsych78

[GeeGolly]

Another very sad extreme Fundy covid case. A 17 year old became sick after attending a church service with her mom. After the teen showed corona symptoms, the family attempted to treat her symptoms at home with grandpa's oxygen and some hydroxychloroquine. They finally brought her to the hospital. When first admitted the family refused intubation. They did end up intubating her, but she died a day later.

[Nysha]

12 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Another very sad extreme Fundy covid case. A 17 year old became sick after attending a church service with her mom.

What's even worse is that it was a Covid service to deliberately expose people to the virus to prove it's all a hoax.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Another very sad extreme Fundy covid case. A 17 year old became sick after attending a church service with her mom. After the teen showed corona symptoms, the family attempted to treat her symptoms at home with grandpa's oxygen and some hydroxychloroquine. They finally brought her to the hospital. When first admitted the family refused intubation. They did end up intubating her, but she died a day later.

The mother of this girl also pitched a fit when the doctors at the hospital refused to give her daughter hydroxychloroquine in the hospital, citing all the evidence that it doesn't work  Mama also has posted a whole bunch of anti-mask wearing nonsense on FB.  Meanwhile, aside from obesity which is a risk factor, this young woman had an autoimmune disorder and a history of cancer.  And, yes, her mother and step- father, who is supposedly a physician assistant; treated her at home with azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine and gave her grandpa's oxygen to wear when she was looking gray and struggling to breathe.

And, of course, a Go Fund Me has been set up for her mother.

Mom is also an outspoken anti-gay activist who complained about Target allowing transgender people to choose which dressing room to use and asked everyone to stop getting prescriptions there.

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2020/07/07/a-high-risk-florida-teen-who-died-from-covid-19-attended-a-huge-church-party-then-was-given-hydroxychloroquine-by-her-parents-report-says

Edited July 7, 2020 by doodlebug

[MargeGunderson]

I hope that poor girl’s parents have to answer for their willful ignorance. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by MargeGunderson

[crazycatlady58]

7 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

I hope that poor girl’s parents have to answer for their willful ignorance.

I want to hope the parents truly understand their choices resulted in her death but then I would not wish them the horror they basically killed their child.

[Albanyguy]

11 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

I want to hope the parents truly understand their choices resulted in her death but then I would not wish them the horror they basically killed their child.

I doubt the parents will take any responsibility for their child’s death. It sounds like the mother is already blaming the hospital for not providing the “right” kind of care (they refused to follow the parents’ wishes for treatment). And the mother has continued to post her ridiculous “You don’t need to wear a mask” messages.

[satrunrose]

Wait...wait... the daughter died of covid and the mom's still telling people not to wear masks...how does she...? What does she...? WHAT?!?

[doodlebug]

17 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

Wait...wait... the daughter died of covid and the mom's still telling people not to wear masks...how does she...? What does she...? WHAT?!?

Yep.  She is deeply fundie as well as a supporter of various right wing causes and has made it clear where she stands on stuff like mask wearing.  She does think that hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment for COVID, though.  When her daughter was first hospitalized, she posted all over FB complaining that the doctors refused to continue giving her daughter the hydroxychloroquine that she and her husband decided the girl needed and somehow obtained (step dad is supposedly a physician assistant, he can probably write prescriptions).  She also was proud that she was directing her daughter's care and had refused to allow her to be intubated despite the doctors' recommendations.  She did eventually cave and the girl was intubated prior to her death.  I presume Mama heard that COVID patients shouldn't be intubated unless there is no other option and so she decided that meant she shouldn't be intubated at all, especially since they wouldn't give the girl the hydroxychloroquine that Mama prescribed.  That the kid was dying was apparently either not noticed or not important to her.

As noted elsewhere, the girl apparently contracted COVID at a party at their church meant to celebrate the end of stay-at-home orders and geared for teens and young adults.  The theme of the party seemed to be centered around the release from the bondage of common sense and that Jesus would protect them as they partied.  They referred to it as a Release Party.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/07/cancer-survivor-17-died-coronavirus-mother-took-huge-church-covid-party-12959009/

Edited July 8, 2020 by doodlebug

[MargeGunderson]

So they gave her hydroxychloroquine at home, she didn’t improve and in fact got so much worse that they had to take her hospital, and they still think it would have cured her if only the doctors would have listened to them? Oh, alrighty then. 

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, MargeGunderson said:

So they gave her hydroxychloroquine at home, she didn’t improve and in fact got so much worse that they had to take her hospital, and they still think it would have cured her if only the doctors would have listened to them? Oh, alrighty then. 

That about sums it up.  Remember, these are people who think wearing a mask is a political issue and who encouraged their overweight daughter with a history of autoimmune disorders and cancer to attend a party with a bunch of other kids during a pandemic.

I expect they will file a malpractice suit against the doctors and hospital claiming that, had the doctors let the mother dictate her care, the girl would have survived.  People are like that, believe me.

[satrunrose]

I'm going to guess that whoever came up with the term "Release Party" never read Lois Lowery's The Giver, but dang, that is a morbidly ironic choice. 

Spoiler tagging because it's a major plot point and the book is worth a read. 

Spoiler

In the Giver, Release is a euphemism for death, specifically euthanasia of the old or non-conforming. Also, like the poor kids at that party, the folks without power think 'release' means being sent away to another community, not death by lethal injection. 

 

[Rabbittron]

24 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

I'm going to guess that whoever came up with the term "Release Party" never read Lois Lowery's The Giver, but dang, that is a morbidly ironic choice. 

Spoiler tagging because it's a major plot point and the book is worth a read. 

  Hide contents

In the Giver, Release is a euphemism for death, specifically euthanasia of the old or non-conforming. Also, like the poor kids at that party, the folks without power think 'release' means being sent away to another community, not death by lethal injection. 

 

This is a very good book. 

[Bewitched]

The article I read also had a timeline.  It seems the girl began taking azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine the day of the party (maybe the day after) so either she was already having symptoms or they didn't really believe Jesus would save her and were hedging their bets.  I am horrified that any health care provider would be this ignorant or narrow minded that politics/religion could sway opinions this far.  

[Future Cat Lady]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

That about sums it up.  Remember, these are people who think wearing a mask is a political issue and who encouraged their overweight daughter with a history of autoimmune disorders and cancer to attend a party with a bunch of other kids during a pandemic.

I expect they will file a malpractice suit against the doctors and hospital claiming that, had the doctors let the mother dictate her care, the girl would have survived.  People are like that, believe me.

The parents are the one who should be put in jail.

[charmed1]

On 6/18/2020 at 11:21 PM, Sew Sumi said:

About 6 months ago, Independent Lens aired an excellent documentary on Ham and the creation of the Ark Encounter. He had a creationist "scientist" on staff who actually had a doctorate (and was a woman!). I wish I could remember the name of it; maybe it's available on PBS's website. It's definitely worth the 90 minutes to get inside of Ham's brain. 

I just watched this! It was on Amazon Prime. It made me so sad when the paleontologist said people throw trash out of their car windows at him while he’s collecting rock samples. This Ham fellow gives me the creeps. He looks like Ted Kaczynski with a haircut.

[Zella]

25 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

This Ham fellow gives me the creeps. He looks like Ted Kaczynski with a haircut.

Bahahahaha this is the best description of him I've ever read!

[GeeGolly]

And its still happening. I still can't believe a Duggar, Bates, Jrod, etc haven't become sick.

More than 40 people became sick with covid after attending a revival event, at an Alabama Baptist church.

[Zella]

13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

And its still happening. I still can't believe a Duggar, Bates, Jrod, etc haven't become sick.

More than 40 people became sick with covid after attending a revival event, at an Alabama Baptist church.

I'm wondering if that will change in about another month or so. Not only did most of them just attend the wedding of the century, but a bunch of them are apparently massing for the Big Sandy conference. With so many people coming from different hotspots, and all of them apparently being of the no mask persuasion, it just seems inevitable that this ends badly for someone. 

[DkNNy79]

39 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

And its still happening. I still can't believe a Duggar, Bates, Jrod, etc haven't become sick.

More than 40 people became sick with covid after attending a revival event, at an Alabama Baptist church.

I read an article about that.  The pastor said the revival was so great that even knowing what happened they would do it again...[shakes head]

[Lisa418722]

I haven't returned to church since the end of February (I missed for other reasons at the end of February and early March).  I don't think my church wanted to shut down but the preacher and his wife had to quarantine at the beginning so they finally decided to shut down.  They reopened Father's Day weekend and I got an email earlier today that someone who attended yesterday has a sick family member.  90% of this church is over 70 years old and that is the reason I haven't been back since they reopened because I didn't want to risk getting any one sick.  One of the megachurches in Atlanta won't be reopening until next year.  I think our tiny (as in under 30 people) church could have waited about reopening.  

[Nysha]

8 hours ago, DkNNy79 said:

I read an article about that.  The pastor said the revival was so great that even knowing what happened they would do it again...[shakes head]

That has got to be the ultimate in arrogance. 

[GeeGolly]

Jill and Derick returned to church - with a choir singer. However it did look pretty empty, with social distancing and masks.

Meanwhile, a priest in DC gave a sermon about not cowering in fear of the virus, saying parishioners were “lukewarm in their faith" if they didn't attend church in person. He went to the hospital that night with a fever and tested positive for covid. After handing out communion wafers to parishioners. 

How is it the JRods, Kellers, Bates, Duggars and Caldwells are somehow avoiding coronavirus?

[Westiepeach]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

How is it the JRods, Kellers, Bates, Duggars and Caldwells are somehow avoiding coronavirus?

Jesus?