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S03.E23: Quintessential Deckerstar

MostlyC

By MostlyC
in Lucifer [V]

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Shades of Red

Shades of Red

20 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

I cried.

So did I.  I'm sad for Dan.  I liked Charlotte and didn't have a problem with her.  Wonder how they'll solve this one?

Amenadiel's wings are gorgeous!  Can he come and go at will or will he now be stuck in heaven?  Will this mean that Lucifer will figure out how to produce his actual face again so he can show it to Chloe?

  • Love 7
MYOS

MYOS

(edited)

Are you sure there's another episode? It felt like a season finale which could be a series finale, but with enough threads left hanging that there's still stuff to say if they're renewed.

I wondered why Amenadiel didn't use one of his feather to heal Charlotte?

I surely wasn't expecting the end.

And Lucifer's realization was very well done.

Edited by MYOS
  • Love 1
FiveByFive

FiveByFive

I'm sincerely going to miss Charlotte a lot. She was a bright spot this season if not the entire series for me.

They created a character, gave her not one but two season long plots and managed to successfully have her grow both times; ending up in a different place than she was at the start of the season. 

I feel like I'm applauding the show for doing what it was supposed to do with all the characters on a season by season basis but with at least one it managed to get it right. She had a nice complete story.

(Although it seemed a little odd that they never forgot she had children but she never tried to get them back.)

19 minutes ago, flyingdi said:

What happened to Maze?

I guess since her job was just to knock out Amenadiel but Pierce stabbed her with the syringe, she's still laying on the floor at Pierce's new place.

I think we do have a confirmation that she really does care a great deal about Linda. That's what threw her off her guard and I hope by the end of the season she'll tell her how she feels. 

  • Love 10
UNOSEZ

UNOSEZ

Amenadiel and Charlotte were the best pairing on the show by 100000 miles and it just got snuffed out... Still it was an emotional and good episode... I had to DVR the epi and by accident I saw a headline abt the episode with tragedy  in it.. So when I saw the "previously on" and then her dream I knew Charlotte was done for... And that's too bad I wanted a spinoff with those two plus maze and Linda... Helping ppl and catching bad guys or somn.. But with an angel and  a demon... I'd much rather that then 38 mins of Lucifer not getting the point and Chloe looking like she was pounding red bull all night... 

  • Love 9
wilnil

wilnil

38 minutes ago, FiveByFive said:

Although it seemed a little odd that they never forgot she had children but she never tried to get them back.)

She did, though it was kind of a blink-and-miss-it scene several episodes ago. IIRC, she was helping Dan by watching Trixie at her office, and Trixie asked about her kids and was surprised she didn't see them anymore. Later, after that conversation, we saw Charlotte call her ex and insistently demand to see her kids.

  • Love 5
wilnil

wilnil

The showrunners must have been planning all along to tease that someone was going to die this episode, judging by the way they put practically everyone in the cast in mortal danger at one point or another, even Linda off-screen (until it became likely that Cain/Pierce made that threat up to distract Maze).

Like (I think) @johntfs, I've always wondered if Lucifer really lost his "devil face" or just discovered another celestial attribute he can't display in front of Chloe. I'm kind of hoping that knowing Amenadiel re-earned his wings gives Lucifer the idea of trying to unfurl in front of her.

And last, I'm a little annoyed that the show has apparently been spinning its wheels the whole midseason just so it could put off Lucifer coming clean to Chloe until now, just before the season finale. That should've happened at the start -- just for starters, imagine the Sinnerman plotline with Chloe willing to believe Lucifer that something weird was going on with that case, maybe even suspecting Pierce before Luci did, etc. The whole arc could've been much improved.

  • Love 5
GaT

GaT

So, all this time Lucifer has been ranting about his father taking his devil face, & Amenadiel has been doing the whole "lucifer is a test" thing as the reason he doesn't have his powers when all they had to do was click their heels together 2 times & say "I want to go home?" How friggin stupid has this show gotten?

So, so glad Charlotte is gone. Again. Please let it stay that way.

I am completely lost on the whole Cain/Maze plot. No idea why they're trying to kill anyone.

flyingdi

flyingdi

(edited)
16 minutes ago, GaT said:

So, all this time Lucifer has been ranting about his father taking his devil face, & Amenadiel has been doing the whole "lucifer is a test" thing as the reason he doesn't have his powers when all they had to do was click their heels together 2 times & say "I want to go home?" How friggin stupid has this show gotten?

So, so glad Charlotte is gone. Again. Please let it stay that way.

I am completely lost on the whole Cain/Maze plot. No idea why they're trying to kill anyone.

I think with this episode they were trying to say Lucifer wasn't Amendial's test,  Amendial was.

Edited by flyingdi
  • Love 9
Damselfly

Damselfly

I wanted to be moved by Charlotte's death, and Tricia Helfer did a great job acting it, but the whole thing just left me disappointed and angry.

From the moment they brought Charlotte back at the end of last season, I feared that this would be exactly what the writers would do: end her character in a clichéd "redemption equals death" scene. And yet, they managed to do one worse, by making her death serve as an "important lesson"/motivating factor for at least one, possibly two, and perhaps even three male characters.

There were so many interesting storylines they could have gone for, so many issues they could have explored with this character. But we hardly got to see anything of that. Like the rest of the storylines this season, her character arc was handled so badly. All of the important growth and development seems to have been crammed into this one episode, and just when it feels like she is going somewhere, she is killed off.

  • Love 5
CuddlerOfDragons

CuddlerOfDragons

Where do I start?  First off, thank you Ella for 'Pecker babies'.  Priceless.

Amenadiel finally figures out that it's his own guilt that took his wings away and gets them back just too late to save Charlotte.  Shame they killed her off, just as she was getting interesting.

Maze finally figures out that she doesn't hate Amenadiel and Linda as much as she thought she did.  At least, she doesn't want them dead.

Chloe really expects us to believe that she was shagging Pierce in cupboards just to get Lucifer's attention?

Will Lucifer figure out that he lost his devil face because he was afraid to show it to Chloe (on a subconscious level) after the way Linda reacted?

So, Cain wants to live now?  Huh?  How long has Mister Chucked-Himself-Into-A-VOLCANO-One-Time wanted to die?   

Does all this weirdness make up for the weirdness of previous episodes?

I think I'll decide after next week's offering.

  • Love 7
Helena Dax

Helena Dax

Well, that was pretty good, especially the end, which was awesome.  I'm going to miss Charlotte and I'm very sorry for Dan but I can see why the writers thought her time had come.

And the kiss!!!! My shipper heart is singing with joy!

I'm starting to think that Chloe allows Lucifer to be who he really wants to be. I mean, when they met, Lucifer wanted to live as a human. He was excited and intrigued when he realised his powers didn't work on her, that he was mortal near her. But when he started to fall in love with her, he logically started to worry about her reaction to the truth. He lost his damon face and got his wings back just when he was going to show Chloe the truth, if I'm not mistaken. What if deep down he was thinking that showing her his wings (which he didn't have anymore) would be easier than showing her his damon-face? I mean, we all know there's a big difference between what Lucifer says he wants and what Lucifer really wants. 

Or maybe it's just the opposite and Chloe's pov is affecting Lucifer. She saw a lunatic mortal at the beginning, so his powers didn't quite work around her. But we know she started to wonder at some point. She had seen things she couldn't explain. At the same time, she was falling in love with him. So there may be a part of her that thinks that Lucifer might be more than a simple human. Maybe. But the Devil? No way. Not in a million years. Because she knows he's a good person. She's seen him with Trixie.  So if he has powers or something like that,,he MUST be one of the good guys.  And Lucifer loses his demonface and gets his wings back.

Maze's change of opinion was a bit sudden, but I'm glad it happened because I couldn't stand it anymore. And I'm totally ready for Cain's death, just saying.

  • Love 6
Ria

Ria

Charlotte and Amenadiel were magic together. Good writing, good chemistry and good acting all the way around. 

I felt bad for Dan too. Genuinely cared for Charlotte. Nothing lame about either of his gifts. A waffle maker is nice if you want to make waffles together. 

Now the bad. I couldn’t help but contrast the difference between the maturity of Charlotte portrayed by a talented actress and the two dippy middle schoolers, Chloe and Ella. I can not stand the childishness of these two and the horrid acting.  

How flighty is Chloe?  She was going to marry Pierce after something like two weeks of dating, then she calls it off days later, then she tells Lucifer they can’t go back to how they were, then she decides everything she did was about Lucifer, then she’s in love with him.  

Lucifer was marginally better in this episode than the last couple but his obsession with this dull, dippy uninteresting woman continues to ruin him. If these two as a couple is where the show will go if there is another season. I won’t be watching. 

  • Love 10
Mabinogia

Mabinogia

11 hours ago, Jlina said:

Trisha is a helluva actress. 

I really wish they had hired her to play Chloe. Of course then they'd have to write Chloe better since Tricia is way too good to play the crap they give Chloe. But damn would she have generated some heat with Lucifer. I'd also kind of understand two immortals falling for her. She's got that special something that makes people gravitate towards her.

I just have to say, this is the single worst episode name I have ever heard in my life. It sounds like a 14 year olds fanfic title. When shows use a cutesy portmanteau in the title of an ep you know the show is sinking fast. They don't seem to care about anything beyond Lucy luvs Chloe, complete with twee little hearts all around it.

This ep I may actually watch. I haven't seen one since...the one after the one with Linda's ex I think. IDK, nothing this season has held my interest enough to really remember what I saw. But Charlotte really grew on me, I love Tricia, so to get to see her act her ass off will be worth suffering through Chloe I guess.

  • Love 5
UNOSEZ

UNOSEZ

23 minutes ago, Ria said:

Charlotte and Amenadiel were magic together. Good writing, good chemistry and good acting all the way around. 

Theyve been the best pairing on the show by far... Such magnetism without the trophy love interest story.. Just two interesting characters working well together I would have been first in line for a spinoff with them leading the show.. In a few episodes of "sleuthing" they captured everything that Luci and Chloe should have.. Minus the romance and they still radiated of the screen way more 

 

26 minutes ago, Ria said:

How flighty is Chloe?  She was going to marry Pierce after something like two weeks of dating, then she calls it off days later, then she tells Lucifer they can’t go back to how they were, then she decides everything she did was about Lucifer, then she’s in love with him.  

Someone in management secretly hates Lauren German.. That's why her character is so horrible and they keep finding ways to make her look disheveled 

  • Love 14
Commando Cody

Commando Cody

This seemed like a season ending episode. Or series. I don't need any closure with the other stuff. I totally forgot about Maze being hit with the needle. I don't even care about what happened to her, or if she ever gets away. 

I never agreed with the casting of Tricia Helfer as Mom. It took until the end of this season but I realized, during the episode that they killed her off, that the character of Charlotte was growing on me. It was a great death scene with Amenadiel flying her up to heaven. 

I can't think of the coroner's name right now, but it always seems so unprofessional to go on and on about personal stuff at a crime scene. 

This show is so wonky with its characters. They made me dislike characters I used to care about and start to care about characters I didn't like. 

  • Love 10
Delphi

Delphi

This episodereally should have happened a few episodes ago with the rest of the season being with the gang dealing with the fallout from this.   Stupid writers spinning their wheels for half a season.

 

I'll miss Charlotte,  I think she was a fascinating character.  

I think that its, sadly enough,  perfectly in character for Maze to be pissy and angry at Ami and Linda only to realize when Cain threatened Linda to realize she didn't want them dead at all. 

  • Love 8
flyingdi

flyingdi

What is the endgame of this show?  Chloe and Lucifer getting married and giving birth to a little Antichrist?

Bravo, Tricia Helfer!  I really could not see why they kept you around after Mom was gone but Charlotte was an interesting character and last night almost made up for a season and a half of mass suckage!

Maybe Amendial should go after Chloe,  he's got chemistry with every other female character.  And he is about the only one!

Another thought, I think the writers have ruined the possibility of a Lucifer/Chloe pairing in writing her character.  "Oh, look, Satan and the Second Coming are making out!"

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Emma9

Emma9

(edited)

I appreciated Ella apologizing to Chloe for letting her own plans get in the way of being a real friend, and also appreciated her dropping it and re-focusing on the case when Chloe asked. It would've been nice to see Lucifer get his ah-ha moment from that, if he had to have one.

Amenadiel's always been a hit/miss character for me, but I really liked his and Charlotte's teamwork this episode; I was thinking during their conversation at the end that it was more enjoyable than the majority of plots this season have been. ...cue the lightning bolt and she's dead. So I apologize to everyone else who was upset, because I'm pretty sure it was my fault.

I want to say Dan was a bright spot in this one too, but what??? Your girlfriend tells you about her nightmares of her children being brutally murdered over the breakfast table, and your idea for making her feel better is to buy cutesy waffle-themed presents? I didn't think they were lame, but deliberately making funny references to the very thing that's horrifying her strikes me as a very strange choice.

Maze having shown no remorse over Chloe and Trixie getting hurt bothered me enough already, and it was so much worse that the thing that finally made her balk was the idea of betraying Amenadiel. Gag. Cain subsequently being able to wrong-foot her by threatening Linda helped balance that a little, but trying to keep liking this character has been a lot more work than I ever expected it to be, and I'm just getting tired.

Edited by Emma9
  • Love 5
Pondlass1

Pondlass1

I think the Powers have held out a bit too long with the will he or won't he tell her.  Other happenings/characters are stealing the show and Chloe is getting lost.

The writers need to give Chloe a personality boost, especially when it comes to a sense of humour. Because I really cannot believe a man like Lucifer would be the least bit interested.  Nothing against the actress.  It's the writing of the character that's at fault here.

Just my opinion...

  • Love 4
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

Wow, where has this emotion been all season? I actually got teary eyed at the end, the acting was just that good. I figured that Charlotte was going to die, but I had really grown fond of her, and it seemed like a good end to her arc. She finally becomes a better person, and goes to heaven. And that shot of Amenadiel getting his wings back and flying to heaven was lovely. I will miss them together, they were so great as a team. Tricia is a great actress. 

Poor, poor Dan. I thought both of his gifts were good, if waffles are a thing between them. Its not like Lucifer is the king of relationships Dan, I wouldn't be listening to him! Maybe Dan can be the next person to get counseling from Doctor Linda? Freaking Cain. What an asshole. 

Edited by tennisgurl
  • Love 15
CheshireCat

CheshireCat

11 hours ago, flyingdi said:

I think with this episode they were trying to say Lucifer wasn't Amendial's test,  Amendial was.

I'm so glad that they went that route. I doubted it from the start - Amenadiel was too obsessed with the idea, just like Lucifer is so obsessed with the "Dad's manipulating everything" idea. I just wish they had spent the season kind of building up to it, sowing doubt and whatnot.

 

14 hours ago, wilnil said:

And last, I'm a little annoyed that the show has apparently been spinning its wheels the whole midseason just so it could put off Lucifer coming clean to Chloe until now, just before the season finale. That should've happened at the start

I wouldn't hold my breath for it happening any time soon. Harris tweeted yesterday that the show would be over once Lucifer tells Chloe. So, apparently, cast and crew are of the opinion that they can't have a show afterwards. I don't understand why they think that but, apparently, they do.

 

I was surprised that the death was Charlotte. Not because it was unlikely but because she was the rather obvious choice.

  • Love 4
Ria

Ria

18 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Harris tweeted yesterday that the show would be over once Lucifer tells Chloe. So, apparently, cast and crew are of the opinion that they can't have a show afterwards. I don't understand why they think that but, apparently, they do.

That is so ridiculous on their part. She should have learned at the end of season one. It has hurt her character and the show tremendously to have her in the dark. 

 

2 hours ago, flyingdi said:

What is the endgame of this show?  Chloe and Lucifer getting married and giving birth to a little Antichrist?

I’ve asked this same thing. What is the purpose of having Lucifer fall in love? There is nowhere to go with that story. His obsession with Chloe has ruined him and as a couple they have no future. So unless the writers envision a teen angst soap opera doomed love affair story (gag), it’s absolutely the wrong way for the show to have gone. 

  • Love 4
Rushmoras

Rushmoras

Well, what can I say, it's not that great or movable episode as someone here says it is, but comparing to other lwckluster episodes of this season it might be one of the better ones. Shame they killed off Tricia's character, I was beginning to like her Maze continues to be incapacitated by plot-armour/line, in reality she should have bested Cain, because he's human, in mere seconds (remember season one and her ninja style in the garage against armed thugs? Ido), but ofcourse Cain has to live fora lot longer, so what does he do? Oh, right,plays the Linda card (did he even know that Maze was/is Linda's friend?)as look behind you cliche and wins the fight.

Cudos for Amenadiel getti g his wings back, it appears all ittook was some self motivation that he is worthy (rolls eyes). Oh, look, Lucifer tells Chloe how he feels and kisses her. Um, we did that already in season two or one, at the beach, there was a scene, and then season three happened and they were at position zero again due to the whole kidnappi g I guess...

Sorry, for gramaticalmistakes, I'm wirting via a on-screen keyboard on a tablet (it sucks).

Mabinogia

Mabinogia

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

So, apparently, cast and crew are of the opinion that they can't have a show afterwards. I don't understand why they think that but, apparently, they do.

Because the writers are clearly not good enough to pull it off and because they are overly invested in Lucy and Chloe as a will they/won't they couple. And let's face it, if they were real people and Chloe, the mother of a very young and impressionable child, realized her partner was the actual Devil, she'd be a fool to go on to date him, or associate with him in any way. She's not Linda, who has no one to look after but herself and has a professional fascination with him being the devil. I really can't buy Chloe knowing and then shrugging and deciding to date him. Then again, a week ago she was willing to marry a man she hardly knew. Maybe I'm expecting too much of her.

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katmax

katmax

15 hours ago, LittleRed said:


Tricia Helfer is one hell of an actress.  Too bad, she's not playing Chloe.

I have to admit I've had this thought as well......She brings such energy to her roles, rather like Tom Ellis.

I truly hope they get a 4th season now. I'd hate this show to end on a cliff-hanger and it finally seems to be going interesting places. They probably need another short season though as this extra long season has not done them any favours as far as story pacing goes.

  • Love 4
chrisvee

chrisvee

(edited)

There have been a lot of execution problems this season — through a combination of bad writing in some cases and poor acting in others. But this ep makes up for a lot and it makes sense out of a few things.

Maze and Lucifer have essentially the same arc. Am I worthy of love? Will someone put me first? Am I ready to put someone else’s needs ahead of my own desires and whims?

I think Tom Ellis has done a good job over this season and prior showing how tormented Lucifer has been over the notion that Chloe’s feelings may not be the result of her own free choice.

It’s Chloe that’s the problem and I’m going to put it down to acting/directingrather than writing. Chloe at the start of the season is understandably hurt and ready to move on romantically to someone else after how Lucifer treated her. What I think LG didn’t do well in early and mid season was show that it was indeed a rebound with Pierce. And that may have been out of some misconceived notion to make it a ‘surprise’ revelation. When we see Chloe devastated after Pierce rejected her there should have been more nuance there to convey the ‘why have I been dumped by both of these guys?’

In terms of relationship end game, I think it’s about teaching Lucifer to love and getting him out of Hell and into a functioning role as an Earthbound angel advocating for humanity bc he loves them. On Chloe’s side it’s a little less clear to me since she will be sacrificing some traditional relationship stuff to make things work if she’s even willing to do that and not betray what she just said to Lucifer about accepting all of him.

I think Maze’s characterization may have been hurt a smidgeon by showing her developing friendships with Trixie and Linda so easily — it felt a tad regressive to have her suddenly feel so betrayed. But I can hand wave that a bit as ‘demon’.

Amenadiel, Linda, Charlotte, and Dan —  all good this season.

Pierce as the Big Bad has sucked a bit bc IMO TW didn’t have the acting range to pull off the despair of Cain, the surprise of falling in love with Chloe, and the depth of betrayal. He’s sort of one note.

Edited by chrisvee
  • Love 4
enoughcats

enoughcats

9 minutes ago, chrisvee said:

Pierce as the Big Bad has sucked a bit bc IMO TW didn’t have the acting range to pull off the despair of Cain, the surprise of falling in love with Chloe, and the depth of betrayal. He’s sort of one note.

I'm not sure that I believed that Cain fell for Chloe.  Dude has been 'human' long enough to have learned every trip in the manipulative book and every possible reaction.  Toying with her and her clueless response (all that was missing was CG sparkles in her eyes) meant she wasn't much of a challenge.  Surely in multiple millenia he came closer to meeting his match.  Angry that he didn't get his way (multiple meanings since he did get some of his ways) was the way I saw it. And yawned.

  • Love 2
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

1 hour ago, enoughcats said:

oying with her and her clueless response (all that was missing was CG sparkles in her eyes) meant she wasn't much of a challenge

For a detective, she sure is easy to fool and manipulate. She has basically become a starry eyed pawn in the game of all these celestial beings who for some reason have an interest in her. 

  • Love 1
NeenerNeener

NeenerNeener

I'm really going to miss Charlotte, which I never thought I'd say after her "Lucifer's Mom" arc. I was really surprised when they brought her back this season; my first thought was "Why, they finished that story last season". But her conversations with Amenadiel about redemption were really moving and thought-provoking. She actually had some substance and dimension, and it became even more obvious that Chloe has none in comparison. Even Manic Pixie Dream Girl Ella has a little bit of a dark side with her currently tightly-controlled gambling addiction, but Chloe is just too perfect and too bland. Although, I guess if Chloe wasn't totally perfect she wouldn't be Lucifer's polar opposite. I'm trying to think of a way she could be perfect and the story could still be interesting after all this time, but I'm coming up blank.

  • Love 4
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