S02.E02: Reunion

[Chris24601]

This is completely theory-crafting, but the show pretty much gave away what the “weapon” is this episode; along with why Delores and DELOS want it and why William wants to destroy it.

The key is right in plain sight. The Hosts remember EVERYTHING, even when ‘shut down’. It’s why Delores can remember the convo between William and Daddy Delos, but the “flashback” (actually just Delores remembering) fades out as soon as they walk out of listening range. ALL the flashbacks are of events Delores and Angela experienced directly... and we were following the present day versions around all episode.

My hunch is that William’s pitch was that by recording all these rich and powerful people (one of the reasons for the massive ticket price was to weed out those not worth exploiting) they’d get all manner of insider information and blackmail material. He basically said they were always watching everyone in the park while they committed their sins, but it wasn’t for judging them.

My hunch is that Delores wants the info because its leverage. If you try to destroy us, we do the mother of all Wikileaks. Hell, just revealing that Delos had been recording the rich and powerful would probably destroy the company. William wants to destroy it because I think he believes that if he can destroy “his greatest sin” that it will preserve his legacy (i.e. he’s well regarded in the real world, but if the spying comes out his name is mud).

 I also don’t think the events of season one were the first time they’d gotten the data out of the park. It’s just the first time they had their operation screwed up because of Ford’s reveries update (which was really just a cover for all the programming that went into his “Let’s free the hosts and screw Delos” plan).

I think the notion of downloading people into host bodies has never been where they’re going; that would actually put something you could almost justify (particularly if you could put the mind of a terminally ill child into a new body so they could live a full life). I don’t think the premise works if the goal had any sort of noble end in mind (because even if it started with the rich, the capability would filter down eventually).

That’s why it’ll be nothing but naked blackmail, insider trading and other exploitable data. These violent delights (actions in the park) have violent ends (used to blackmail and ruin others). That’s what Delos needs to control as it all goes sideways. To either get the information for their own use or to burn it down so no one else learns the dirty truth of what they’ve been doing with client data.

[Morrigan2575]

40 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

The key is right in plain sight. The Hosts remember EVERYTHING, even when ‘shut down’. It’s why Delores can remember the convo between William and Daddy Delos, but the “flashback” (actually just Delores remembering) fades out as soon as they walk out of listening range. ALL the flashbacks are of events Delores and Angela experienced directly... and we were following the present day versions around all episode.

Fascinating and quite possibly correct

Edited April 30, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[DarkRaichu]

25 minutes ago, Chris24601 said:

This is completely theory-crafting, but the show pretty much gave away what the “weapon” is this episode; along with why Delores and DELOS want it and why William wants to destroy it.

The key is right in plain sight. The Hosts remember EVERYTHING, even when ‘shut down’. It’s why Delores can remember the convo between William and Daddy Delos, but the “flashback” (actually just Delores remembering) fades out as soon as they walk out of listening range. ALL the flashbacks are of events Delores and Angela experienced directly... and we were following the present day versions around all episode.

My hunch is that William’s pitch was that by recording all these rich and powerful people (one of the reasons for the massive ticket price was to weed out those not worth exploiting) they’d get all manner of insider information and blackmail material. He basically said they were always watching everyone in the park while they committed their sins, but it wasn’t for judging them.

My hunch is that Delores wants the info because its leverage. If you try to destroy us, we do the mother of all Wikileaks. Hell, just revealing that Delos had been recording the rich and powerful would probably destroy the company. William wants to destroy it because I think he believes that if he can destroy “his greatest sin” that it will preserve his legacy (i.e. he’s well regarded in the real world, but if the spying comes out his name is mud).

 I also don’t think the events of season one were the first time they’d gotten the data out of the park. It’s just the first time they had their operation screwed up because of Ford’s reveries update (which was really just a cover for all the programming that went into his “Let’s free the hosts and screw Delos” plan).

I think the notion of downloading people into host bodies has never been where they’re going; that would actually put something you could almost justify (particularly if you could put the mind of a terminally ill child into a new body so they could live a full life). I don’t think the premise works if the goal had any sort of noble end in mind (because even if it started with the rich, the capability would filter down eventually).

That’s why it’ll be nothing but naked blackmail, insider trading and other exploitable data. These violent delights (actions in the park) have violent ends (used to blackmail and ruin others). That’s what Delos needs to control as it all goes sideways. To either get the information for their own use or to burn it down so no one else learns the dirty truth of what they’ve been doing with client data.

Interesting theory except for the bolded part.  I think the weapon is a massive database to host the information for blackmail. William showed Dolores the construction of a bunker / data center to host the database + data receivers.  Last season Ford started to blow up parts of the park and some in Delos worried the database/data center might get effected.  Thus they ported all information to an empty host (Abernathy) in an effort to move the data outside of Westworld.  This was a 1 time operation otherwise they would not have put very high priority to Abernathy's extraction (ie. Delos refused to extract Charlotte unless she had Abernathy in hand)

Edited April 30, 2018 by DarkRaichu

[DrSpaceman]

I think I didn't understand in this episode?

Isn't Bernard a robot?  We found that out last season, correct? 

So who knows he is a robot?  This episode implied he is buying and/or building a house.  Can a robot own property, or anything?  How much is he allowed outside of the confines of Westworld and its immediately adjacent supportive business?  Does Bernard just go about the regular world as he pleases?

[meep.meep]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

I am still under the assumption that the outside world is a very homogenized / facist utopia where free actions are restricted to the nth degree by the laws.  So when the guests enter an environment without any limit (Westworld), the pendulum swings to the other end.

I don't think we know much about the outside world.  What we do know is that going to the park is very expensive.  And people who have the money to fling around on a recreational experience, vs. investing or saving to put someone through college, etc. are the people who generally have to be very constrained and conservative in society.  So the chance to get off their tether and do something crazy appeals to them.

Regarding potential call backs to BSG - the non-humanized robots in the bunker who were collecting the DNA looked like Toasters to me.

There was Delos,and now we have Argos.  On to Crete?

[dgpolo]

5 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

Does Bernard just go about the regular world as he pleases?

That wasn't Bernard (as far as we can know) that was Arnold. We even hear Ford in the background calling him Arnold at one point.

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, DrSpaceman said:

I think I didn't understand in this episode?

Isn't Bernard a robot?  We found that out last season, correct? 

So who knows he is a robot?  This episode implied he is buying and/or building a house.  Can a robot own property, or anything?  How much is he allowed outside of the confines of Westworld and its immediately adjacent supportive business?  Does Bernard just go about the regular world as he pleases?

That was a flashback to Arnold not Bernard. Arnold was building a house for his family

[iMonrey]

Quote

 Ironic as it may be, it seemed like the showrunners were more interested in pandering to internet theories than telling a coherent story. 

I agree with this, and I also feel like the show is far more interested in style than in substance.

Last week's season premier was an hour and fifteen minutes long but that hour and fifteen minutes seemed to fly by. This week's episode was only an hour but it felt like an hour and a half. Why is that?

I think it's partly because I'm sick to death of these endless flashback scenes between Bernard and Delores. I realize lots of people find them fascinating but they just seem so pretentious to me - not to mention repetitive. "Bring yourself back online Delores. Do you know where you are Delores. I am in a dream. A dream is a wish your heart makes Delores. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah." I mean - I understand we've being given information in all this exposition but it's couched in so much flowery crap it's driving me nuts. Get back to the damn story already! 

[marcee]

I worry that if anyone really and truly follows and understands what's going on, there would be a gajillion plot holes to fill. Thankfully, the fact that this show is confusing as all hell makes it hard to poke holes in the story writing. At this point anyone can be anything and any question can have any answer. I can't decide if that 'freedom' is a good thing or bad.

[DrSpaceman]

34 minutes ago, marcee said:

I worry that if anyone really and truly follows and understands what's going on, there would be a gajillion plot holes to fill. Thankfully, the fact that this show is confusing as all hell makes it hard to poke holes in the story writing. At this point anyone can be anything and any question can have any answer. I can't decide if that 'freedom' is a good thing or bad.

I agree to an extent and that is the danger with a show like this.

The key is for the writers to at least slowly keep things coming together and make sense, rather than just opening up more questions that go unanswered

What you mention is the problem I had with Lost and why I eventually stopped watching.  The longer I watched it just became more confusing rather than less, to me. 

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That was a flashback to Arnold not Bernard. Arnold was building a house for his family

thanks. that makes more sense.  getting those two mixed up

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That was a flashback to Arnold not Bernard. Arnold was building a house for his family

And it's these memories from more than 30 years ago that Dolores is drawing on when she tells Teddy about understanding the outside world.

Interesting to have young Robert flitting around the background. He asked if Dolores was ready to entertain the investors, Arnold said no, so Robert said they'd use the other girl, which turns out to be Angela.

[DarkRaichu]

18 minutes ago, Haleth said:

And it's these memories from more than 30 years ago that Dolores is drawing on when she tells Teddy about understanding the outside world.

Interesting to have young Robert flitting around the background. He asked if Dolores was ready to entertain the investors, Arnold said no, so Robert said they'd use the other girl, which turns out to be Angela.

Young Robert said something about Dolores was Arnold's favorite and Arnold had to let go at some point

[kittykat]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The mass suicide was this week's big OH SHIT moment for me. On the other hand, it cracks me up that Robert had so many of the characters programmed to tell the MIB to go fuck himself.

ITA that only getting Giancarlo for one brief scene was exciting and then disappointing, but I'll take what I can get.

So far, Dolores is winning the strategy battle. She was smart enough to take one of the techs with her so he can program the other hosts to fight with her. The MIB is not doing so great at recruiting just yet (aside from Lawrence, that is).

I love that too.  I'm also enjoying how MIB is half frustrated half intrigued at the new rules, it's liked he's unlocked the Master Quest.

Fitting that Kanye song gets repurposed for piano the same week he goes full on bananas, tied in well with Logan's arc.

[Dev F]

6 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

I dunno -  I can see fucking them with no guilt, and I guess they are lifelike enough. But killing them? Yeah, maybe they shouldn't feel guilty killing them because they are machines, but I think the larger question, at least for me, is why is killing people so pleasurable that there is a theme park created with one of the purposes being to kill. Sorry, I don't get it.  

Even today there are video games centered around the fun of murdering people in the bloodiest fashion possible. I don't see much of a moral difference between that and gunning down highly realistic robots.

And if all of a sudden the creator of Grand Theft Auto announced, "Guess what? All the characters in the series were actually sentient AI programs, so if you ever ran over a hooker in game you're a murderer!" I might feel pretty awful, but I'd probably blame him for making sentient AIs and then telling everyone it was okay to murder them! You can't hold someone morally responsible for transgressing a moral line they had no reason to think was in effect.

[Ellaria]

5 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Interesting theory except for the bolded part.  I think the weapon is a massive database to host the information for blackmail. William showed Dolores the construction of a bunker / data center to host the database + data receivers.  Last season Ford started to blow up parts of the park and some in Delos worried the database/data center might get effected.  Thus they ported all information to an empty host (Abernathy) in an effort to move the data outside of Westworld.  This was a 1 time operation otherwise they would not have put very high priority to Abernathy's extraction (ie. Delos refused to extract Charlotte unless she had Abernathy in hand)

To add to this discussion about data extraction...

In S1, when Ford was having lunch with Theresa, he said to her "we know everything about our guests." To me, that seems like he was aware of/approved of the efforts to collect data from guests and store it. 

[DarkRaichu]

35 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

To add to this discussion about data extraction...

In S1, when Ford was having lunch with Theresa, he said to her "we know everything about our guests." To me, that seems like he was aware of/approved of the efforts to collect data from guests and store it. 

Moved my response to speculation thread as it is too much of a speculation

Edited April 30, 2018 by DarkRaichu

[Ellaria]

17 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Yep.  Ford most likely approved as long as the data stayed on Westworld so he could use it as collateral to do whatever he wanted.  After 25+ years, the new Delos management did not approve of that and tried to transmit the data out.  When they failed to transmit (ie host that was stuck in a hole), they stored the data in Abernathy so they could physically move it out.

Hmm I wonder how many of the new Delos management attended the shareholders dinner?? Ford could have struck a deal with the new board by getting rid of their (presumably) opposition (ie the old folks) in 1 fell swoop.  Too cynical?? ;)

Following @DarkRaichu to the speculation thread.

Edited April 30, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[numbnut]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I understand we've being given information in all this exposition but it's couched in so much flowery crap it's driving me nuts. Get back to the damn story already! 

You sound like me when I'm watching "Legion." LOL.

[LoveLeigh]

5 hours ago, marcee said:

I worry that if anyone really and truly follows and understands what's going on, there would be a gajillion plot holes to fill. Thankfully, the fact that this show is confusing as all hell makes it hard to poke holes in the story writing. At this point anyone can be anything and any question can have any answer. I can't decide if that 'freedom' is a good thing or bad.

Something makes no sense to me: In season 1, episode 2... Logan and William enter Westworld. On the train ride in, Logan tells William most of the women there are "10s." Then the hostess greets them when they get off the train and William acts like he has never seen her before. She explains to him the concept behind Westworld and why there is no orientation and she asks him to choose a hat. 

If William was at the introduction to Westworld in that fancy city apartment, as he was in this episode, would he not know most of that and have seen many of the hosts? Why was he so clueless in episode 2 of season 1? 

[dgpolo]

2 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

If William was at the introduction to Westworld in that fancy city apartment

I believe that was the retirement party of Delos Sr. The intro party was where everyone -froze-.

But this brings up something I was confused about. Yes, William was very naive at his introduction and then he was very -business savvy- sometime later when he was selling the park to Delos Sr. I'm not sure how that time difference adds up? How did WW get to where it was at William's introduction if Delos hadn't already invested in the park? Did they not invest until William's talk with Delos Sr? Did I miss something?

[DarkRaichu]

44 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

Something makes no sense to me: In season 1, episode 2... Logan and William enter Westworld. On the train ride in, Logan tells William most of the women there are "10s." Then the hostess greets them when they get off the train and William acts like he has never seen her before. She explains to him the concept behind Westworld and why there is no orientation and she asks him to choose a hat. 

If William was at the introduction to Westworld in that fancy city apartment, as he was in this episode, would he not know most of that and have seen many of the hosts? Why was he so clueless in episode 2 of season 1? 

William left Logan and (Asian?) friend just before Angela arrived, meaning William was not part of that private demo in the swanky apartment. Logan was the only human in that room.  William did not meet Angela until his visit to Westworld

ETA: ok I was wrong. William did see Angela as he left Logan and Asian friend.  Since the demo, Logan had visited Westworld a few times, so time had passed between the demo and William's visit.  William probably forgot what Angela looked like by the time he reached Westworld

Edited May 1, 2018 by DarkRaichu

[DarkRaichu]

16 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

I believe that was the retirement party of Delos Sr. The intro party was where everyone -froze-.

But this brings up something I was confused about. Yes, William was very naive at his introduction and then he was very -business savvy- sometime later when he was selling the park to Delos Sr. I'm not sure how that time difference adds up? How did WW get to where it was at William's introduction if Delos hadn't already invested in the park? Did they not invest until William's talk with Delos Sr? Did I miss something?

Here is the timeline as far as we know

1. Logan was having drink with William, in which William left early
2. Shortly after, Angela arrived and gave Logan his first demo of Westworld in the swanky hotel room. Logan was intrigued, but Delos had not put any money in
3. Logan brought William to visit Westworld (season 1).  At this point Delos had not invested in Westworld.  This trip was half for pleasure half fact gathering to see if Delos was interested in investing
4. William snapped, sent buck naked Logan to a wild horse ride, and somehow took over Logan's seat as Vice President/ heir apparent to Delos Co (season 1)
5. Business savvy William (apparently he gained the savvy after his snap) took Delos Sr to Westworld (riding helicopter) to ask him to invest in Westworld.  Delos Sr said WW is in red, not interested in future, blah blah blah but agreed to invest in Westworld due to the ability to gather information.
6. Sometime after 5, we saw Dolores playing piano at Delos Sr retirement party
7. Sometime after 6, William showed Dolores whatever he was building in Westworld

[dgpolo]

3 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Delos Sr said WW is in red, not interested in future, blah blah blah but agreed to invest in Westworld due to the ability to gather information

Ahh, thanks! This is the part I missed. ^

[mac123x]

29 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

1. Logan was having drink with William, in which William left early
2. Shortly after, Angela arrived and gave Logan his first demo of Westworld in the swanky hotel room. Logan was intrigued, but Delos had not put any money in
3. Logan brought William to visit Westworld (season 1).  At this point Delos had not invested in Westworld.  This trip was half for pleasure half fact gathering to see if Delos was interested in investing
4. William snapped, sent buck naked Logan to a wild horse ride, and somehow took over Logan's seat as Vice President/ heir apparent to Delos Co (season 1)
5. Business savvy William (apparently he gained the savvy after his snap) took Delos Sr to Westworld (riding helicopter) to ask him to invest in Westworld.  Delos Sr said WW is in red, not interested in future, blah blah blah but agreed to invest in Westworld due to the ability to gather information.
6. Sometime after 5, we saw Dolores playing piano at Delos Sr retirement party
7. Sometime after 6, William showed Dolores whatever he was building in Westworld

Minor correction:

2.5  Logan invested SOME money in Westworld.  We know this because:

           a.  S1 Logan commented to William that he needed to make sure his family invested more.

           b,  This episode Daddy Delos said something about his foolish son having already thrown money at it.

[shadowpup]

Here's something I don't really get.  Robert made a host version of his dead partner Arnold and called him Bernard.  Risky, because the host looks just like a dead human and does essentially the same job as said human.  It seems pretty unrealistic that Ford would take that kind of a risk, waving it away with "well, the records/files were scrubbed..." etc.  It seems like it would have made more sense to call Bernard Arnold and pretend he never was killed in the park.  He would have to "age" Bernard anyway with multiple hosts if he was going to give the impression that Bernard was his assistant and pass him off as human.  

 

It seems like it would have been more prudent to have just named him Arnold, and start him off older and age him in real time...

[DHDancer]

I know this was sort of answered upthread by links to Youtube stuff but to formalize it, the classical piano piece played at the very beginning of the episode is Prelude in C-sharp minor, Op. 3, No. 2 by Rachmaninoff

[numbnut]

One more question: Why is Delos ill/dying when the world can "cure any disease" (as Ford mentioned)? Is that a timeline issue? Does it have anything to do with how old William's foundation saved the life of that guest's sister?

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, shadowpup said:

Here's something I don't really get.  Robert made a host version of his dead partner Arnold and called him Bernard.  Risky, because the host looks just like a dead human and does essentially the same job as said human.  It seems pretty unrealistic that Ford would take that kind of a risk, waving it away with "well, the records/files were scrubbed..." etc.  It seems like it would have made more sense to call Bernard Arnold and pretend he never was killed in the park.  He would have to "age" Bernard anyway with multiple hosts if he was going to give the impression that Bernard was his assistant and pass him off as human.  

 

It seems like it would have been more prudent to have just named him Arnold, and start him off older and age him in real time...

When Logan visited WW with William, he mentioned Robert had a partner who died of mysterious circumstances.  So at least outsiders knew that Arnold died.  Perhaps it was easier to fake scrubbed birth records than to remove records of death.

Also, Westworld scientists / workers 30 years ago knew Arnold was shot on the back of his head by Dolores.  It would most likely be harder to convince them (assuming they were still there after 30 years) that Arnold never died.  Bernard, on the other hand, had only been employed for 9(?) years. It was easier to pass him as new younger person that happened to have similarities to young Arnold.

 

25 minutes ago, numbnut said:

One more question: Why is Delos ill/dying when the world can "cure any disease" (as Ford mentioned)? Is that a timeline issue? Does it have anything to do with how old William's foundation saved the life of that guest's sister?

The party where William and Delos Sr talked about patience happened within a few years after Delos took over Westworld.  There were 15-20 years between that party and present time. Perhaps the cure etc were found years later, after Delos Sr died,  but before present time.

Edited May 1, 2018 by DarkRaichu

[Quilt Fairy]

16 hours ago, Haleth said:

The guy that met Logan with Angela and brought him to the party.  Was that the host that William cut the skull of when he first found the maze map?

No.  That character was Kizzie (or Kissie) the card dealer and the actor who played him passed away after the pilot was filmed.  The host who appeared with Angela (and I only know this from a couple podcasts I listen to) is apparently

Spoiler

one of the Ghost Nation Indians in the current timeline.  I can't recognize anybody under all that makeup,

but then I couldn't recognize Teddy floating in the water, either.

[jane1978]

Lucky for Dolores that all important men in the WW liked/hated her character enough to take her everywhere and tell her their most secret plans and desires. Unlucky, because they also apparently had a negative impact on her development. She speaks in riddles like Arnold and seems cynic and nihilistic like Wiliam. Not the best leader to represent the new sentient host race.

So how many fully sentient hosts are right now in the WW? Seems most of them are just trying to cope with the lack of predefined storyline and react in character at all the new information. Like Teddy. Is he fully awake, or is he just merely continuing his primary directive (be in love and follow and protect Dolores) in a new situation.

The lack of even simplest security measures in the WW is amazing. Apparently even some low level smuck in a remote cleaning station has a full admin rights to the host control console and he can just connect to any host in the park. I can just imagine the amount of mistakes and pranks and fake alarms this would do in a real environment.

Ford had to be really bored later in his life to not only create a special VIP quest just for William, but give some many hosts an exception which only starts to play when MiB approaches them and starts to give questions which deviate too much from their usual storyline. In some way, it´s cute.

So MiB has a daughter who I quess could be in her late thirties now? Am I counting right? Did he mention her before or is this a new information? It seems that scene with her and Dolores was there for a reason, so if she is not dead already I think she could have some role in the future events.

I admit I was a little bored with this episode mainly because so many information was repeated. We had MiB hinting to Lawrence the true purpose of the park, then William doing the pitch to Delos Sr., then older William taking Dolores to the newly build secret place and finally Dolores approaching the same place and saying it´s not a place, but a weapon? I mean, we get it. They are spying on quests and recording their DNA, data and experiences. It´s not that hard to understand, let´s move on.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[Pallas]

2 hours ago, jane1978 said:

It seems that scene with her and Dolores was there for a reason, so if she is not dead already I think she could have some role in the future events.

In the credits, the character was listed as Young Emily. 

[MarySNJ]

Watching this episode play out, I realized that Dolores isn’t really as free as she thinks. Her memories and awareness are tied to the “Wyatt” personality which is what Robert programmed before his final act.  Maeve’s escape last season was also programmed but in her case, she made a different choice apparently of her own free will. I think it will be interesting to see if Dolores is even capable of making a different choice. 

I love watching the evolution of William.

I’m glad poor Teddy isn’t being offed every episode. 

I have to say that Maeve had more charisma in her short scene than Dolores did in the whole episode. 

@jane1978  Last season William mentioned that his wife was gone and his daughter wants nothing to do with him.

Edited May 1, 2018 by MarySNJ

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, jane1978 said:

So MiB has a daughter who I quess could be in her late thirties now? Am I counting right? Did he mention her before or is this a new information?

He did mention her in season 1.  I can't tell you what episode or to whom, but he was telling someone about his wife killing herself and their daughter blaming him for her death.

[Johnny Dollar]

I wonder if Dolores being somewhat of an anagram of Delos is a thing, or if I’ve just been playing too much Wordscapes?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode!

Westworld Is Bound For Glory (Literally)

Dolores shoots a bunch of guys and goes on at least two field trips. Get all the gory details in our latest EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

[benteen]

Now this was a definitely improvement over last week.  I really enjoyed the episode and I especially liked learning more of the park's backstory.  It was done in a fantastic way. 

I'm also glad we got to see more of the park too.

Nice to see Giancarlo Esposito pop up, short as it was.  The man knows how to command the screen.

The Teddy Look of Horror and Impotence returns with a vengeance this week!

I just remembered that Ben Barnes also had a big role in The Punisher.

I'm still not sympathizing with Dolores, who still comes across to me as a murderer and a thug with delusions of grandeur.  I don't care for Maeve either...quite frankly, very few of the characters on this show are sympathetic.

[numbnut]

2 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

I have to say that Maeve had more charisma in her short scene than Dolores did in the whole episode. 

So much this. Thandie has been killing it but was the last to get offered equal pay for season three.

Edited May 1, 2018 by numbnut

[Teitr Styrr]

I think what William showed Delores this episode is the bunker that Bernard and Tess are currently in. And, I think that Ford was (as he always was) one step ahead of Delos and knew about their bunker(s). I think this is how Bernard had DNA that passed the test of opening the door to the bunker. 

The mass suicide was definitely to oh shit moment of the episode for me. 

I am still very much interested is Delores and her story, and my goodness ERW is gorgeous.

I also loved the meet cute between Delores and Maeve. Yes, Maeve has most personality than Delores, but I just think about what roles they were both last playing before "waking up". A madam and a famer's daughter. Anyways, I put "waking up" in quotes, because I'm not entirely sure either of them really is.  

[Tachi Rocinante]

16 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

If William was at the introduction to Westworld in that fancy city apartment, as he was in this episode, would he not know most of that and have seen many of the hosts? Why was he so clueless in episode 2 of season 1? 

It wasn't clear if he saw her.  Also, black dress with hair down versus white dress with hair up.  Now she has curly hair, and I wasn't sure she was the same host until they made it obvious in the "previouslies".

[Babalooie]

I didn't watch Season 1 and was only watching this season to see Gustaf Skarsgard playing Karl Strand.  I love him on Vikings.  I fast-forwarded looking for him, but didn't see him on this episode.  The show is rather low-key for my taste, I guess.

[Ellaria]

11 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

Watching this episode play out, I realized that Dolores isn’t really as free as she thinks. Her memories and awareness are tied to the “Wyatt” personality which is what Robert programmed before his final act.  Maeve’s escape last season was also programmed but in her case, she made a different choice apparently of her own free will. I think it will be interesting to see if Dolores is even capable of making a different choice. 

Nice observation. Yes, Maeve appears to have exercised free will when she walked off the train. I guess the big question is whether Dolores is still on the Wyatt loop that was programmed for her or not? This opens up an entire discussion of what consciousness means in a host.

6 hours ago, Teitr Styrr said:

I think what William showed Delores this episode is the bunker that Bernard and Tess are currently in. And, I think that Ford was (as he always was) one step ahead of Delos and knew about their bunker(s). I think this is how Bernard had DNA that passed the test of opening the door to the bunker. 

Of course. Ford knew what was going on. He told Theresa that "we know everything about our guests."

[thuganomics85]

I was spoiled going in that someone from Breaking Bad would be popping up in this episode, but even then, I assumed it would be a recurring face at best, but they ended up getting Giancarlo "Gus Fring" Esposito?!  Nice!!  It was great seeing him here, even if he's possibly one and done.  Of course, the good thing about being a host for an actor is that there is always a chance they could come back.

A few other familiar faces show up as well like Peter Mullan as Logan's dad/William's boss, Jonathan Tucker playing a host (playing a psycho, of course, but does Jonathan Tucker ever not play one?), and last but certainly not least, Zahn MClarnon!  Really hope we see more of him.

Cool seeing Logan and Young William again.  Now that it is all out of the bag, Jimmi Simpson definitely seems to be adding more of Ed Harris' traits to the character now, and we are really seeing how creepy he was!

Interesting that it sounds like Dolores almost was the "face" of Westworld, but Arnold prevented it, and that is how Angela got the role.  And now they're both together murdering humans!  And hosts!  While poor Teddy looks on confused and scared!

Hey, Lawrence is back too!  Already enjoying him and Old William together again.

Not much Maeve in this one, but she was still awesome in her one scene.  Even though I like Dolores too, it is interesting that despite all of her violence and killing, I still think Maeve could end up being the biggest threat.  She seems like someone who has a much bigger long game.

[paigow]

  On 4/30/2018 at 7:43 AM, Haleth said:

The guy that met Logan with Angela and brought him to the party.  Was that the host that William cut the skull of when he first found the maze map?

No.  That character was Kizzie (or Kissie) the card dealer and the actor who played him passed away after the pilot was filmed.  The host who appeared with Angela (and I only know this from a couple podcasts I listen to) is apparently

  Reveal hidden contents

one of the Ghost Nation Indians in the current timeline.  I can't recognize anybody under all that makeup,

but then I couldn't recognize Teddy floating in the water, either.

The host who appeared with Angela...was Mathias on Longmire

[tennisgurl]

This certainly isnt the last meeting between Dolores and Maeve, but I thought their conversation was interesting. Maeve just wants to live free, while Dolores wants her vengeance. Really, I think they might end up coming into conflict at some point. Maeve pretty much said that Dolores is still obsessing with the humans and letting them control her life, and that by going down this path, and even forcing other hosts to go along with her, she is becoming just like the people she is fighting against. 

It looks like later Logan has become less gleefully hedonistic, and more doing drugs to avoid his actual life. It looked like he had track marks on his arm when he saw Delores, maybe in the current timeline, he has died of an overdose? 

The mass suicide was quite horrifying, but its also darkly hilarious about much Robert is dicking with the MiB from beyond the grave. And Old William just looks so annoyed with him, like he is just having fun with his new bonus level, and then a mod shows up to ruin his fun. 

[TobinAlbers]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The mass suicide was quite horrifying, but its also darkly hilarious about much Robert is dicking with the MiB from beyond the grave. And Old William just looks so annoyed with him, like he is just having fun with his new bonus level, and then a mod shows up to ruin his fun. 

So far every episode when Robert pokes his head up so to speak, MiB replies with a 'Fuck you, Robert'. Ep 1 took the form of plugging KidFord! and this ep was him literally saying 'Fuck you, Robert.' I imagine MiB will be doing a variation of that every episode, LOL.

[Head-Full-Of-Thi]

Ok there weren't many new questions this episode but there were a bunch of cool moments.

 

1. 99% of all the trailers material already happened in these two episodes. Then wth is going to happen in the rest of the season??? I'm so excited!!!!

2. My favorite moments from this episode were self jokes. Teddy looking at all the times that he died is definitely a nod to the "Teddy always dies" gag. And Logan saying about the hosts "that's impossible, we're not there yet". Since it's something like 10 years from now it's really impossible that they would managed to create such human like robots.

3. Lorence!!!! My favorite character is back!!! I like that he and William are repeating their season 1 journey except this time he didn't murder his entire family... And everyone remember the Lorence 2.0 actor from all those quality shows meanwhile I'm like omg it's Sydney from Once Upon A Time (also Revolution. Does anyone remember this show?)

4. Idk if Dolores knew what she was doing or not, but she really stepped on all of Teddy's triggers. Going to the Confederados when Teddy used to be in the Union is a low move. It seems like the plot is going towards Teddy leaving Dolores.

5. I'm not from the US so I watch with translation. And in the part where Dolores said to the confederate soldier 'I know you're on a path to glory' the subtitles had the word 'glory', as in the actual English word just with the letters in my language, and next to it in parentheses there was the translation. So that makes me think Glory is the name of a woman the soldier loves, which explains his reaction to her saying it.

6. It's William's stock photo wife!!! How did they manage to find an actress that looks so much like the woman in the photo? Or is it the same woman?

7. Angela is quite central to the plot since last season but we know nothing about her. What's her personality? If she even has one. I think big things are coming with her.

[greyhorse]

I'm getting so confused with all the time jumps, who is supposed to be who in the future, etc.  Even reading some of these posts, I don't really have a firm grasp on what is happening.  Am I the minority here?  Some of you really seem to have a complete bead on exactly what is happening and I'm wondering what I'm missing here.

On a shallow note... holy moly, Angela is gorgeous.  This is Elon Musk's ex-wife?!  I guess even being a gazillionaire isn't enough to make it work with her, quite a pity.  I did see that Talullah Riley is now a series regular, so obviously her character is going to play a big role.  Right now it seems like she is just the cowgirl hanging out with Maeve and shooting people.  That is her, right? 

[Lemons]

On 4/29/2018 at 10:18 PM, mac123x said:

What thing full of spendor did middle-aged! William show Dolores at the end?  It looked like some earthmoving equipment, but her final scene with Teddy implied that it was a weapon.  A way to make the suddenly-appearing-sea appear?

Did they do something weird to his looks to make him look older?  I am so confused about what went on.

[crookedjackson44]

I am very trying to be patient.  So far season 2 has been very underwhelming, considering the first season.  The second episode did not advance the plot very much, and Dolores' story so far is dull.