S09.E10: Confronting Meri

[zoomama]

On 3/20/2018 at 4:21 AM, Higgins said:

What does that do for you, having spotless floors?

it would make me happy to be so dedicated to cleaning.  i try but as i get older i am not as uptight about it as i used to be.

[mamey2422]

1 hour ago, TurtlePower said:

Because Meri doesn't want to be there, she just tries to look like she does. 

ITA. Robyn and Christine both checked-in with Maddie to see how she was doing. They were sensitive about not overstepping bounds but let Maddie know they were there for her and demonstrated that with actions (staying with her in the bathroom, reaching out when she first started getting contractions).

I thought it was very sweet how everyone ended up being in the room, with Maddie’s permission.  With the exception of Kody. I would NOT want my dad involved in that with me. 

It it would have been easy enough for Meri to reach out to Maddie, letting her know what she’d like her involvement to be - or what it could be if she had obligations. “I know you don’t want everyone around for the birth but I’ll be around and can help with XYZ and will check in with you at ABC.”  

Did anyone else pick up on Meri’s obnoxious tone of voice when they decided to play a board game to help pass time? Meri was somewhat patronizing. I can’t stand her. 

I loved feisty Janelle and honest Christine. Meri can dish it out but she can’t take it. 

[valdawn]

Ok hold on just a damn minute here, Meri and Christine haven’t liked each other or really gotten along (however the hell they worded it during their very special episode sit down) for 10 Years at least!?!? That’s like as long as this shows been on but I thought the whole premise was to show just how great and awesome and fantastic this polygamy bullshit is and how they have sister wives who give love and support and encouragement and share a dick and sometimes even a closet. 

 

I’m going to to my safe place and have a breakdown over this revelation because here I thought they all loved each other so much and having all this love and family support was just the best thing since sliced bread. 

[notnowimbusy]

28 minutes ago, valdawn said:

Ok hold on just a damn minute here, Meri and Christine haven’t liked each other or really gotten along (however the hell they worded it during their very special episode sit down) for 10 Years at least!?!? That’s like as long as this shows been on but I thought the whole premise was to show just how great and awesome and fantastic this polygamy bullshit is and how they have sister wives who give love and support and encouragement and share a dick and sometimes even a closet. 

 

I’m going to to my safe place and have a breakdown over this revelation because here I thought they all loved each other so much and having all this love and family support was just the best thing since sliced bread. 

They all hate each other except when filming, then they hate each other with fakeness of being concerned.

[valdawn]

Oh ya and one more reason I hate this damn show (self torture that I watch it, I guess I’m glutton for punishment). Anyway, I was looking for cake recipes and saw one for tres leche cake and I immediately got a mental picture of Tony’s fat ass stuffing his obnoxious mouth with a big ole hunk of the cake at the wedding that was meant to be shared with everyone. I’m afraid everytime I hear or see “tres leches” I’m going to picture Fat Tiny for the rest of my damn life! 

[NotinKansasanymore]

On 3/19/2018 at 11:06 AM, ginger90 said:

Me, me, me

So if Janelle's tweet is true then doesn't that contradict everything they said in therapy. If half way through Maddie changed her mind and wanted the emotional support, then that debunks Christine's claim that she was afraid Maddie would kick them out since she didn't realize they were in there. And Robyn's it's not my birth so I couldn't invite you, cause it's Maddie descision. 

You can't have it both ways ladies. If you all knew Maddie was okay with you all being there and voiced that, then your excuses are void.

My opinion, they are protecting Kody, who I think voiced he didn't want Meri there, after Robyn suggested she should be there.

[Gothish520]

3 hours ago, zoomama said:

it would make me happy to be so dedicated to cleaning.  i try but as i get older i am not as uptight about it as i used to be.

Me either. I dont live in squalor or anything, but I'm not overly concerned about keeping my house tip top anymore. In fact, this magnet adorns my fridge: 

[suomi]

31 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

Me either. I dont live in squalor or anything, but I'm not overly concerned about keeping my house tip top anymore. In fact, this magnet adorns my fridge: 

I'm pretty good at keeping the house orderly but I do have a little sign which says You May Touch The Dust But Please Don't Write In It

[lookeyloo]

I love a clean house.  Sometimes I even have one!  The thing I still don't understand is why this house isn't nearly as dusty as the other one and our socks don't get dirty.  We have a combination of carpet, hardwood and tile.  I've never had black Janelle feet in any house of mine.  It would horrify me, really.  

[Kohola3]

9 hours ago, valdawn said:

That’s like as long as this shows been on but I thought the whole premise was to show just how great and awesome and fantastic this polygamy bullshit is and how they have sister wives who give love and support and encouragement and share a dick and sometimes even a closet. 

You monogamists will just never understand...

[Adiba]

8 hours ago, NotinKansasanymore said:

So if Janelle's tweet is true then doesn't that contradict everything they said in therapy. If half way through Maddie changed her mind and wanted the emotional support, then that debunks Christine's claim that she was afraid Maddie would kick them out since she didn't realize they were in there. And Robyn's it's not my birth so I couldn't invite you, cause it's Maddie descision. 

You can't have it both ways ladies. If you all knew Maddie was okay with you all being there and voiced that, then your excuses are void.

My opinion, they are protecting Kody, who I think voiced he didn't want Meri there, after Robyn suggested she should be there.

I think you may be onto something there. I believe the only adult relationship Meri really cares about is her and Kody's. Also, why is Kody getting a free pass here? He, as her "spiritual" husband, should have communicated with his so-called wife that Maddie changed her mind. I believe that is at the core of Meri's issue with the birth.

[Sandy W]

11 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

You monogamists will just never understand...

Some things this monogamist will never understand:-

-Given that the ratio of male to female births is roughly 50/50, how can polygamists justify one male accumulating 3 or more mates as their passport to their celestial planet?  If it is based on survival of the fittest, most capable males, Kody Brown is a poor example.  I doubt that he could effectively lead in a monogamist relationship.

-How do women find it acceptable that they are only entitled to a fraction of a male and that their children have to divide the attention of their father with multiple other households?

-If Meri's religious convictions explain her rationale for staying in a relationship that she is clearly not a part of, why was she willing and eager to cast aside her beliefs when a more enticing monogamous Catholic "male" presented an opportunity to escape?

I'm not asking to be provocative, the first two questions are the reason I first tuned in to watch SW and after 8 or more years, I am still no closer to understanding.

[Gothish520]

19 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I love a clean house.  Sometimes I even have one!  The thing I still don't understand is why this house isn't nearly as dusty as the other one and our socks don't get dirty.  We have a combination of carpet, hardwood and tile.  I've never had black Janelle feet in any house of mine.  It would horrify me, really.  

I almost never walk around barefoot or in just my socks, so I don't know how my house would fare in that situation. I have carpet and tile. I live in New England though, and it's chilly to cold to freezing for a good portion of the year (35 degrees on this lovely spring morning). 

I'm guessing that, it being Vegas and hot most of the time, they walk around barefoot a lot, and maybe they even go outside barefoot as well. That could explain the dirty feet. 

[AZChristian]

9 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

I almost never walk around barefoot or in just my socks, so I don't know how my house would fare in that situation. I have carpet and tile. I live in New England though, and it's chilly to cold to freezing for a good portion of the year (35 degrees on this lovely spring morning). 

I'm guessing that, it being Vegas and hot most of the time, they walk around barefoot a lot, and maybe they even go outside barefoot as well. That could explain the dirty feet. 

I live in AZ (similar climate to Las Vegas).  One rarely goes outside barefoot . . . concrete and asphalt are too hot.  Lots of sandals, but no bare feet.

[Jen Marie]

Aren't Kody and Meri divorced? She's not really a sister wife anymore and she's so unhappy, it seems. Why not just pack up and move on? This show is really bizarre.

[DakotaJustice]

59 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I live in AZ (similar climate to Las Vegas).  One rarely goes outside barefoot . . . concrete and asphalt are too hot.  Lots of sandals, but no bare feet.

And the rocks and gravel too.

[Sandy W]

3 minutes ago, Jen Marie said:

Aren't Kody and Meri divorced? She's not really a sister wife anymore and she's so unhappy, it seems. Why not just pack up and move on? This show is really bizarre.

I believe as soon as TLC pulls the plug on the income stream, ol' Mare will saddle up her excess baggage and ride off into the sunset of Parowan.

[Kohola3]

17 minutes ago, Jen Marie said:

Aren't Kody and Meri divorced? She's not really a sister wife anymore and she's so unhappy, it seems. Why not just pack up and move on? This show is really bizarre.

They are legally divorced but still spiritually married.  And if she leaves before Koodie bites the dust  (after the show is cancelled in my mind) she won't the privilege (snerk) of spending eternity on his Planet of Painful Relationships.  If he even make the effort to whisper the secret name or whatever the hell he needs to do which will be when hell freezes over.

[Aethera]

Let's get back to the episode, please. Take religion discussion to the polygamy thread, but let's remember to this isn't an invitation to discuss ALL religions, just the one relevant to this show.

[Roslyn]

11 hours ago, NotinKansasanymore said:

So if Janelle's tweet is true then doesn't that contradict everything they said in therapy. If half way through Maddie changed her mind and wanted the emotional support, then that debunks Christine's claim that she was afraid Maddie would kick them out since she didn't realize they were in there. And Robyn's it's not my birth so I couldn't invite you, cause it's Maddie descision. 

You can't have it both ways ladies. If you all knew Maddie was okay with you all being there and voiced that, then your excuses are void.

My opinion, they are protecting Kody, who I think voiced he didn't want Meri there, after Robyn suggested she should be there.

I suspect that it was more like Christine described that although Maddie (in a calm state of mind pre real labor) stated her intentions of only Caleb and the midwife being there, in actuality once it really got intense for her she didn't pay attention to the others around her or really care because her mind was obviously elsewhere.

I don't think that at any time Maddie actually said...oh...you guys can stay, by the way...where is Meri?  Get her here too.  If that happened, they would have said it.

Maddie didn't throw anyone out, Janelle didn't push anyone out when things got hot and heavy.  They stated that it was Maddie who threw out the cameras.  So if Maddie wanted them gone for sure she would have probably done just that. 

I don't believe Robyn suggested that Meri should be there to anyone.  What Robyn said was that she "thought about Meri and how she should be there, she thought about it several times...but....it wasn't her decision...it wasn't her birth"  However.  When she said this in therapy she was also giving an odd side eye to Christine (possibly Janelle) who was sitting on her left on the couch.  I have a suspicion that both her and Christine may have quietly voiced the Meri's absence issue to each other and weren't saying it.  They BOTH used the "not my decision, not my birth" excuse in exactly the same way.  Janelle was pretty clear about the issue.  She was focused only on Maddie and really didn't give a hoot about anyone else. 

I agree completely about Kody tho.  They are ALL radio silence with his involvement in any way.  That sends up a flag that there is more to that part of the story.

I can say tho...I only have my own two births for personal reference.  When it was time, and pushing was going on...a hundred people could have entered the room and I would not have had a clue.  My husband was at my side for both births.  I can clearly remember one nurse directing me during both births, but I'm pretty sure two were in the room at the time for both.  My son was born before the doctor even arrived and my daughter was born when the doctor was out of the room with another patient who was matching each stage with me and he was going between rooms.  During the final pushing stages I didn't have a clue who was where or doing what.  I only knew my husband was there and the voice of the nurse.

Since Christine and Robyn were only there because Maddie didn't speak up to toss them out, and she also didn't toss out her mother and father...it comes down to the fact that no one in attendance (sounds like quite a few adults...) was willing to speak up for Meri.  Since Meri wasn't willing to hang out with people she doesn't like to be close to what was going on and wasn't willing to push in (like Christine and Robyn did) that the whole thing is kinda a collective fault of all.  A very hard lesson to learn, but I doubt Meri learned a damn thing...she will always blame the others involved and not her own part of the whole mess.

I doubt we will ever hear any of the Kody role.  They all seem to protect that Ass Hat man.

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

3 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I live in AZ (similar climate to Las Vegas).  One rarely goes outside barefoot . . . concrete and asphalt are too hot.  Lots of sandals, but no bare feet.

I am also in AZ , but I go barefoot in my house and on my covered patio, sure with the dust and dirt my feet can get dirty, but with a daily shower and a nice loofah and some soap ( yes Christine, soap) you too can have clean feet.

[Gothish520]

36 minutes ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

I am also in AZ , but I go barefoot in my house and on my covered patio, sure with the dust and dirt my feet can get dirty, but with a daily shower and a nice loofah and some soap ( yes Christine, soap) you too can have clean feet.

Well, she may have started the day with clean feet but they got dirty before filming, lol. 

I have to admit though, if I were going to be on camera I would try to make sure that either my feet were clean or the bottoms were not visible. But since these folks have been on tv for years, they may just get so used to the cameras that stuff gets forgotten.

[Maricopa]

God gawd, all the drama around not being present for a live birth when you're fairly distantly related. Why is this suddenly a Thing?

[Gothish520]

52 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

I suspect that it was more like Christine described that although Maddie (in a calm state of mind pre real labor) stated her intentions of only Caleb and the midwife being there, in actuality once it really got intense for her she didn't pay attention to the others around her or really care because her mind was obviously elsewhere.

I don't think that at any time Maddie actually said...oh...you guys can stay, by the way...where is Meri?  Get her here too.  If that happened, they would have said it.

Maddie didn't throw anyone out, Janelle didn't push anyone out when things got hot and heavy.  They stated that it was Maddie who threw out the cameras.  So if Maddie wanted them gone for sure she would have probably done just that. 

I don't believe Robyn suggested that Meri should be there to anyone.  What Robyn said was that she "thought about Meri and how she should be there, she thought about it several times...but....it wasn't her decision...it wasn't her birth"  However.  When she said this in therapy she was also giving an odd side eye to Christine (possibly Janelle) who was sitting on her left on the couch.  I have a suspicion that both her and Christine may have quietly voiced the Meri's absence issue to each other and weren't saying it.  They BOTH used the "not my decision, not my birth" excuse in exactly the same way.  Janelle was pretty clear about the issue.  She was focused only on Maddie and really didn't give a hoot about anyone else. 

I agree completely about Kody tho.  They are ALL radio silence with his involvement in any way.  That sends up a flag that there is more to that part of the story.

I can say tho...I only have my own two births for personal reference.  When it was time, and pushing was going on...a hundred people could have entered the room and I would not have had a clue.  My husband was at my side for both births.  I can clearly remember one nurse directing me during both births, but I'm pretty sure two were in the room at the time for both.  My son was born before the doctor even arrived and my daughter was born when the doctor was out of the room with another patient who was matching each stage with me and he was going between rooms.  During the final pushing stages I didn't have a clue who was where or doing what.  I only knew my husband was there and the voice of the nurse.

Since Christine and Robyn were only there because Maddie didn't speak up to toss them out, and she also didn't toss out her mother and father...it comes down to the fact that no one in attendance (sounds like quite a few adults...) was willing to speak up for Meri.  Since Meri wasn't willing to hang out with people she doesn't like to be close to what was going on and wasn't willing to push in (like Christine and Robyn did) that the whole thing is kinda a collective fault of all.  A very hard lesson to learn, but I doubt Meri learned a damn thing...she will always blame the others involved and not her own part of the whole mess.

I doubt we will ever hear any of the Kody role.  They all seem to protect that Ass Hat man.

I think you nailed it.

[Maricopa]

God gawd, all the drama around not being present for a live birth when you're fairly distantly related. Why is this suddenly a Thing?

[Kohola3]

3 minutes ago, Maricopa said:

Why is this suddenly a Thing?

Desperate need for more stories to keep the TLC train a'chuggin.

[Roslyn]

3 hours ago, Sandy W said:

Some things this monogamist will never understand:-

-Given that the ratio of male to female births is roughly 50/50, how can polygamists justify one male accumulating 3 or more mates as their passport to their celestial planet?  If it is based on survival of the fittest, most capable males, Kody Brown is a poor example.  I doubt that he could effectively lead in a monogamist relationship.

-How do women find it acceptable that they are only entitled to a fraction of a male and that their children have to divide the attention of their father with multiple other households?

-If Meri's religious convictions explain her rationale for staying in a relationship that she is clearly not a part of, why was she willing and eager to cast aside her beliefs when a more enticing monogamous Catholic "male" presented an opportunity to escape?

I'm not asking to be provocative, the first two questions are the reason I first tuned in to watch SW and after 8 or more years, I am still no closer to understanding.

The 50/50 ratio of male and female is a mother nature thing.  Think back to humans being just another animal on earth.  Males do more dangerous things than females.  Males go out hunting and gathering.  Males fight among themselves. Males do stupid things to impress females or look better and more powerful to other males.  They die more, plain and simple. The females gather within the circle and the males go to the outer edge to fight whatever needs to be fought. If you have a flock of chickens with multiple males you can see this behavior first hand.  It's actually quite interesting to learn about chicken rules and compare them to humans.

In modern day a man doesn't have to be the most powerful physically anymore.  In polygamist groups he just needs to be properly connected within the politics and hierarchy of the group. Being born to the right leg of the group and having good manipulation skills wins the day.

Women find it acceptable because for the most part, most of them, are raised with a clear indoctrination of this is the way, this is the only way, and this is what you do.  Period.  Hive mentality is very powerful.  Even after mental, physical, sexual abuse and little education of any kind...many who escape the groups can't function in outside society and go back or turn to drugs.  To leave the group means to be completely alone and on your own after a lifetime of always being surrounded by family and like thinkers.  That is a powerful force.  You are trained to not trust anyone outside your group, you aren't properly educated to be able to qualify for the simplest of unskilled jobs and you are alone.

Jump back quite a few seasons after the Browns went to Las Vegas.  They had scenes where they were looking for religious based youth groups for their children to be a part of.  Since mainstream Mormons are so against polygamy, they couldn't go to LDS based churches and they sat down with a local Presbyterian minister.  Christine was a fruit loop during those scenes.  She could hardly carry on a conversation with "the shark" minister, and in my opinion was quite disrespectful to him.   Her lifetime indoctrination was so strong that the thought of her children interacting with open and accepting Christian based youth group was a horror to her.  Even as a grown woman in a modern age...she could not get past the life lessons of anyone outside of your church group is your mortal, spiritual and physical enemy.

Meri and the catfish??  I don't think it really had anything to do with her religious beliefs at all. I remember reading some of the interaction with them (any info from JO has to be taken with a grain of salt, but some of it looked interesting) and I do remember a tidbit where Meri stated something along the lines of "in my religion we don't see it that way". Naturally nothing that was publicly posted ever made JO's role look at fault.  Her goal releasing what she did was to punish Meri and publicly humiliate her.  Meri did discuss a little bit that one of the things JO did was made her doubt her religion and her beliefs.  Which is very believable because a manipulating person like that would want to confuse and alienate their target from their family/friends and their ability to think rationally and for themselves.

Meri was raised in a world of sit down, listen and believe without question. It isn't easy to somehow in adulthood to gather the skills for critical and rational thinking or the ability to look at the whole picture with a clear frame of mind and make up your mind for yourself. Meri was obviously in a very dark emotional state when JO targeted her.  The flattery and attention to such a lonely woman obviously worked and Meri was caught, hook, line and sinker.  In Meri's mind she was falling in love with a handsome man who was attracted to her and made her laugh.  She was getting attention at a time when she needed it and by the time it morphed into what it actually was....a emotional trap....it was too late.  Her head was in the relationship, obviously even her daughter trying to talk sense to her didn't work.  THAT is what a master manipulator can do.  Even intelligent people who are not in a dark emotional state fall prey to people like this.  That's how cults draw in members and how they keep them. It's how people are conned out of money, signing over their homes and entire bank accounts.  One phone call from the right person and they are turning over their bank account numbers, credit card numbers etc.  Manipulation is a learned skill.

Without the information/voice mails and photos posted by JO we would have never known Meri's true involvement in the situation.  I also think that the show would not have even discussed it if it weren't for all the stuff that appeared online.  But it is obvious by the voice mails that Meri was very emotionally wrapped up in the relationship and based on the photos she was disturbingly involved in more than just a friendship with JO.

[Sandy W]

Thank you @Roslyn for your detailed, thorough response.  You have opened my thought processes in a way the Brown's have failed to do.  Much appreciated.

[Kohola3]

Well said, @Roslyn.

[Gothish520]

13 minutes ago, Maricopa said:

God gawd, all the drama around not being present for a live birth when you're fairly distantly related. Why is this suddenly a Thing?

Well, technically Meri is one of Maddie's "mothers", so I would say that could be considered a close relationship. Whether it is or not depends on the people involved.

[Maricopa]

Oooo, kids, we learned two new words today! "Guarded" and "safe"! And we learned to whisper condescendingly!

[Zahdii]

I think that no one wanted to bother to beg Meri to attend, and she didn't want to be there.  The drama came later when these disfunctional so-called adults started their habit of sniping at each other.

But what I found the most upsetting was that Maddie said ahead of time that she knew she only wanted Caleb and the midwife there at the end.  She might have also wanted Janelle, too. 

But as it turned out, the other adults discounted her wishes and let in a film crew, children, and even brought in chairs so they could be more comfortable while watching the show.  Sure, eventually the kids and the film crew were told to leave, but there were still a lot of other people not on the short list still hanging around.  Christine even said that she didn't want to speak up about including Meri because she didn't want to run the risk of having everyone put out.  She admitted that if she spoke up Maddie might realize that there was a whole bunch of people there and spare a moment to scream "Everyone get the hell out!"

I imagine that in the first flush of motherhood Maddie ignored the fact that no one honored her wishes, but I wouldn't be surprised if she eventually felt or will feel betrayed.  Her husband didn't stick up for her, her mother didn't, and her midwife didn't.  I'd be feeling pretty surly right about now if I were Maddie.

[DakotaJustice]

She might have been surly, but I'm sure the inevitable TLC check made payable to Mr and Mrs Caleb Brush eased the pain.

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

What I found strange about the audience was that they were like they were sitting all looking like Maddie was going to punt the baby to them when it came, even if you had a few people in a delivery room or area, dont you sit by the side of the bed ?  I found the whole thing creepy, why would you want to watch the poor girl go through the squirming, screaming like they were watching the nutcracker ? 

[Adeejay]

22 hours ago, valdawn said:

Ok hold on just a damn minute here, Meri and Christine haven’t liked each other or really gotten along (however the hell they worded it during their very special episode sit down) for 10 Years at least!?!?

Based on that timeline, I have a feeling that Christine and Meri fell out when Christine found out Meri was on the hunt for a fourth wife; or when Meri and Christine fell out, Meri went hunting for a fourth wife to get back at her.  Who is sorry now?  Karma, she be a bitch!

Edited March 23, 2018 by Adeejay

[MamaMax]

12 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

Me either. I dont live in squalor or anything, but I'm not overly concerned about keeping my house tip top anymore. In fact, this magnet adorns my fridge: 

As I always say -- Clean enough to be healthy, dirty enough to be happy!

 

I also have a sign that says "Little known fact: Housework done properly can kill you."

Edited March 22, 2018 by MamaMax

[xwordfanatik]

I agree about Caleb having dropped the ball here.  No way would I have wanted my dad to watch, and an audience while I was in pain.  Mr. Xword was the only one I wanted with me, and I know if there had been gawkers there, family or not, he would have made them leave.  Caleb was a wuss.

I do remember in a previous episode, Maddie had some kind of concern (don't remember the particulars.)  Whatever was going on, she specifically wanted Janelle and Christine only.  She even said something like, "it's not that I don't love Meri or Robyn" so it was clear to me, which moms she was closest to.  Since Christine was hands-on mom to the older kids at least, it made sense to me.  Robyn, Kody, and any other people definitely seemed way overboard.  YMMV.

It's a shame Caleb misplaced his balls when he needed them.  

[Roslyn]

24 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

I agree about Caleb having dropped the ball here.  No way would I have wanted my dad to watch, and an audience while I was in pain.  Mr. Xword was the only one I wanted with me, and I know if there had been gawkers there, family or not, he would have made them leave.  Caleb was a wuss.

I do remember in a previous episode, Maddie had some kind of concern (don't remember the particulars.)  Whatever was going on, she specifically wanted Janelle and Christine only.  She even said something like, "it's not that I don't love Meri or Robyn" so it was clear to me, which moms she was closest to.  Since Christine was hands-on mom to the older kids at least, it made sense to me.  Robyn, Kody, and any other people definitely seemed way overboard.  YMMV.

It's a shame Caleb misplaced his balls when he needed them.  

I believe the time when Maddie only wanted Janelle and Christine was when she was telling the adults about her and Caleb were a serious couple.  Kody was there too because they were all excited that they knew Caleb already and especially the fact that they knew his family very well.  Kody had the same reaction towards Aspyn's boyfriend/fiance Mitch.  Kody flat out said that he knew Mitch's family and that was all he needed to know.  Plus they have known Mitch when he was younger.  They bristled with Tony because Mykelti is a wild child who isn't mature in their eyes, she isn't a favorite daughter like Maddie or Aspyn and also she brought an "outsider" into the family.

As for Caleb and the birth, I thought it was interesting that he didn't step up and be the voice of Maddie while she was mentally preoccupied.  I think he is overwhelmed dealing with the whole Brown clan and yes...came off as leaving his balls at the door. I also think that Kody steamrolled him into coaching Maddie through the birth.  Unless we hear that Maddie herself chose Kody to be at her side instead of Caleb(maybe they both were??)...I think Kody pushed his way in because...you know....he's done it so many times.  Kody should have pulled Caleb aside, given his advise with how to proceed and taken a seat like everyone else.  Supporting Caleb instead of pushing him out of the way.  We will never know the exact details, and so can only speculate. Maddie went through a hell of a labor and just looking at her face in the moments after...it was pretty obvious.

[ghoulina]

19 hours ago, Sasha888 said:

Very interesting thought...hmmm. Yeah, I would've liked to have been a fly on the wall during the first few sessions.

I thought it was interesting that during the session we were shown - the last session - Meri said I'm fine with it now, I'm ready to move past it.

I think in Meri-speak, what that really means is that she got to gripe at the other 3 for a couple of "therapy" sessions and tell them how mean and awful they were to her, and now the matter is CLOSED. Meri has had HER say, but is not interested in listening to what the other 3 have to say on the matter. 

Hence the foot wiggling, staring off into space, and eventually crying. She wants to chastise you for your transgression, and then MOVE ON, without hearing anyone else's point of view, or what SHE could have done differently. 

Yup. When Meri's ready to move on, it's time for all to move one. Once she's said HER peace, she's good. She has no interest in letting the other women address THEIR issues. 

[Onceafan]

4 hours ago, Roslyn said:

I don't believe Robyn suggested that Meri should be there to anyone.  What Robyn said was that she "thought about Meri and how she should be there, she thought about it several times...but....it wasn't her decision...it wasn't her birth"  However.  When she said this in therapy she was also giving an odd side eye to Christine (possibly Janelle) who was sitting on her left on the couch.  I have a suspicion that both her and Christine may have quietly voiced the Meri's absence issue to each other and weren't saying it. 

The thing is when Christine sat down for her one on one with Meri she said this...

"Going into the labor, when we were in there, Robyn did ask a couple of times if we should get you, and things like that, and I'm not going to say anything cause it wasn't my labor."

So we have Christine admitting that Robyn asked a couple of times if they should get Meri. The story we are not getting is what was everyone's response was, when Robyn asked multiple times. I agree that the radio silence about this topic, makes me think Kody's response is not something they want to put out there on the tv show. 

I see it either one of two ways. When Robyn asked, everyone was silent on the subject, and so she didn't go get Meri, (basically no one wanted her there and ignored the question), or they are protecting themselves or certain people like Maddie or Kody, who did then voice that they didn't want her there, and so she wasn't invited. 

[VedaPierce]

15 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I love a clean house.  Sometimes I even have one!  The thing I still don't understand is why this house isn't nearly as dusty as the other one and our socks don't get dirty.  We have a combination of carpet, hardwood and tile.  I've never had black Janelle feet in any house of mine.  It would horrify me, really.  

I think walking around Janelle's house barefoot and then getting black feet for your trouble is pretty horrifying. I don't care what kind of tolerance one may have for a lived-in home, that crosses a line. It's gross. 

Edited March 23, 2018 by VedaPierce

[laurakaye]

3 hours ago, Adeejay said:

Based on that timeline, I have a feeling that Christine and Meri fell out when Christine found out Meri was on the hunt for a fourth wife or when Meri and Christine fell out, Meri went hunting for a fourth wife to get back at her.  Who is sorry now?  Karma, she be a bitch!

I could quote 354 posts on this thread, but instead I ran around dishing out "hearts" like tears on a wet bar.

The above quote, though, is pretty interesting, and I suspect it's true.  I didn't realize that Meri and Christine hadn't had a good relationship for so long, but I'm sure Robyn had a lot to do with it.  Meri brings in Robyn to get back at bubbly, baby-factory Christine and then zounds!  Which two wives end up bonding?  Robyn and Christine.  Nice try, Meri!  Thanks for playing!

So much to unpack here, but here are a couple of observations:

Meri asking Mariah to meet Cheryl and her daughter was all kinds of WTF.  Meri's ridiculous nervous giggling makes me want to hurl rocks at my television, and it tells me that she's not over Sam - or at least, not over the fillings Sam gave her before Sam became that rascal meanie catfisher.  If Meri were truly and honestly sorry and embarrassed, she could've approached it as, "look, I rilly messed up.  I was lonely and vulnerable and a rilly easy target.  I would like you to meet and talk with Cheryl so maybe you can get a better idea of where my head was at."  However, when Mariah said that she was over it and Meri kept giggling and pushing and telling Mariah that her hesitancy to meet Meri's fellow Sam-bait was because Mariah still didn't have closure - that was a load of crap.  Meri wants to drag this out because she and her new bestie need each other to bask in the shared glow of that handsome Sam while pretending to be outraged and play the victim.  Why Meri would actually want her daughter to bear witness to that BS is beyond me.  That said, I am actually looking forward to Meri and Cheryl teaming up again because if it's anything like last time, it solved nothing and taught us nothing except how to giggle at what might have been.  Gross.

Also, Aspyn's boyfriend has that distinct FLDS accent that I always hear on shows like Escaping Polygamy or documentaries on Warren Jeffs.  That surprised me a little, because we don't hear that in any of the Browns.

That sister wives lunch was just so horrendously awkward.  Body-language much, Janelle??  Sheesh.  Meri might bring a lot of baggage, but in close second is Janelle and her thousand-yard stare of duhhhhhhh.

And Robyn's chin is starting to blend into her neck.

Edited March 22, 2018 by laurakaye

[xwordfanatik]

@laurakaye, bravo!  It makes sense to me that Christine still harbors a grudge and is pissed at Meri for bringing a new 'wife' into the mix.  Not that I can rilly relate, but yes, if I were the youngest "wife" and pregnant to boot, why wouldn't I have resentment if it's rilly true that Meri wanted a bestie, and wanted to curry favor with Doofus, who she was admittedly having problems with already, that she befriended stealth bitch Robyn?  Sorry (not sorry) that Robyn has not aged well.  Her nose and chin will meet each other eventually, surpassing her thin-lipped little mouth.  Maybe that will prevent her from trying to insert her blather into every conversation, and pretending that she "shoulda been there from the beginning," or whatever.  LOL tears on a wet bar!  

I so agree, why would Meri be forcing Mariah into meeting her fellow catfished friend?  For TLC money?  What happened to Meri's college plans?  I'm sure none of her sycophants that buy her ugly-ass clothes never ask her that.

[Claire Voyant]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

I could quote 354 posts on this thread, but instead I ran around dishing out "hearts" like tears on a wet bar.

The above quote, though, is pretty interesting, and I suspect it's true.  I didn't realize that Meri and Christine hadn't had a good relationship for so long, but I'm sure Robyn had a lot to do with it.  Meri brings in Robyn to get back at bubbly, baby-factory Christine and then zounds!  Which two wives end up bonding?  Robyn and Christine.  Nice try, Meri!  Thanks for playing!

So much to unpack here, but here are a couple of observations:

Meri asking Mariah to meet Cheryl and her daughter was all kinds of WTF.  Meri's ridiculous nervous giggling makes me want to hurl rocks at my television, and it tells me that she's not over Sam - or at least, not over the fillings Sam gave her before Sam became that rascal meanie catfisher.  If Meri were truly and honestly sorry and embarrassed, she could've approached it as, "look, I rilly messed up.  I was lonely and vulnerable and a rilly easy target.  I would like you to meet and talk with Cheryl so maybe you can get a better idea of where my head was at."  However, when Mariah said that she was over it and Meri kept giggling and pushing and telling Mariah that her hesitancy to meet Meri's fellow Sam-bait was because Mariah still didn't have closure - that was a load of crap.  Meri wants to drag this out because she and her new bestie need each other to bask in the shared glow of that handsome Sam while pretending to be outraged and play the victim.  Why Meri would actually want her daughter to bear witness to that BS is beyond me.  That said, I am actually looking forward to Meri and Cheryl teaming up again because if it's anything like last time, it solved nothing and taught us nothing except how to giggle at what might have been.  Gross.

Also, Aspyn's boyfriend has that distinct FLDS accent that I always hear on shows like Escaping Polygamy or documentaries on Warren Jeffs.  That surprised me a little, because we don't hear that in any of the Browns.

That sister wives lunch was just so horrendously awkward.  Body-language much, Janelle??  Sheesh.  Meri might bring a lot of baggage, but in close second is Janelle and her thousand-yard stare of duhhhhhhh.

And Robyn's chin is starting to blend into her neck.

I worry about Robyn.  She looks like she has a hypo-thyroid issue going on.  I hope she gets it checked out.  Thyroid cancer is also a concern.  I remember on Real Housewives of OC, Briana (Vicki Gunvalson's daughter) found out she had thyroid cancer and her neck looked a lot like Robyn's.  Robyn hasn't seemed very healthy or happy for quite some time and  her thyroid could be causing her to look and feel lousy.   

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, xwordfanatik said:

Her nose and chin will meet each other eventually, surpassing her thin-lipped little mouth.

I had an Aunt like that and you could hear her snore the next house over. Eh gads. He won’t be as invested in sleeping with her then. 

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, Claire Voyant said:

I hope she gets it checked out.  Thyroid cancer is also a concern.

Hopefully someone has mentioned these concerns to her.  The Flip or Flop guy had an issue as well and a nurse wrote to him with her observation.  He ended up with surgery for thyroid cancer.  Of course there is the whole "doctors are evil" thing with these nuts so....

[TurtlePower]

8 hours ago, Roslyn said:

The 50/50 ratio of male and female is a mother nature thing.  Think back to humans being just another animal on earth.  Males do more dangerous things than females.  Males go out hunting and gathering.  Males fight among themselves. Males do stupid things to impress females or look better and more powerful to other males.  They die more, plain and simple. The females gather within the circle and the males go to the outer edge to fight whatever needs to be fought. If you have a flock of chickens with multiple males you can see this behavior first hand.  It's actually quite interesting to learn about chicken rules and compare them to humans.

In modern day a man doesn't have to be the most powerful physically anymore.  In polygamist groups he just needs to be properly connected within the politics and hierarchy of the group. Being born to the right leg of the group and having good manipulation skills wins the day.

Women find it acceptable because for the most part, most of them, are raised with a clear indoctrination of this is the way, this is the only way, and this is what you do.  Period.  Hive mentality is very powerful.  Even after mental, physical, sexual abuse and little education of any kind...many who escape the groups can't function in outside society and go back or turn to drugs.  To leave the group means to be completely alone and on your own after a lifetime of always being surrounded by family and like thinkers.  That is a powerful force.  You are trained to not trust anyone outside your group, you aren't properly educated to be able to qualify for the simplest of unskilled jobs and you are alone.

Jump back quite a few seasons after the Browns went to Las Vegas.  They had scenes where they were looking for religious based youth groups for their children to be a part of.  Since mainstream Mormons are so against polygamy, they couldn't go to LDS based churches and they sat down with a local Presbyterian minister.  Christine was a fruit loop during those scenes.  She could hardly carry on a conversation with "the shark" minister, and in my opinion was quite disrespectful to him.   Her lifetime indoctrination was so strong that the thought of her children interacting with open and accepting Christian based youth group was a horror to her.  Even as a grown woman in a modern age...she could not get past the life lessons of anyone outside of your church group is your mortal, spiritual and physical enemy.

Meri and the catfish??  I don't think it really had anything to do with her religious beliefs at all. I remember reading some of the interaction with them (any info from JO has to be taken with a grain of salt, but some of it looked interesting) and I do remember a tidbit where Meri stated something along the lines of "in my religion we don't see it that way". Naturally nothing that was publicly posted ever made JO's role look at fault.  Her goal releasing what she did was to punish Meri and publicly humiliate her.  Meri did discuss a little bit that one of the things JO did was made her doubt her religion and her beliefs.  Which is very believable because a manipulating person like that would want to confuse and alienate their target from their family/friends and their ability to think rationally and for themselves.

Meri was raised in a world of sit down, listen and believe without question. It isn't easy to somehow in adulthood to gather the skills for critical and rational thinking or the ability to look at the whole picture with a clear frame of mind and make up your mind for yourself. Meri was obviously in a very dark emotional state when JO targeted her.  The flattery and attention to such a lonely woman obviously worked and Meri was caught, hook, line and sinker.  In Meri's mind she was falling in love with a handsome man who was attracted to her and made her laugh.  She was getting attention at a time when she needed it and by the time it morphed into what it actually was....a emotional trap....it was too late.  Her head was in the relationship, obviously even her daughter trying to talk sense to her didn't work.  THAT is what a master manipulator can do.  Even intelligent people who are not in a dark emotional state fall prey to people like this.  That's how cults draw in members and how they keep them. It's how people are conned out of money, signing over their homes and entire bank accounts.  One phone call from the right person and they are turning over their bank account numbers, credit card numbers etc.  Manipulation is a learned skill.

Without the information/voice mails and photos posted by JO we would have never known Meri's true involvement in the situation.  I also think that the show would not have even discussed it if it weren't for all the stuff that appeared online.  But it is obvious by the voice mails that Meri was very emotionally wrapped up in the relationship and based on the photos she was disturbingly involved in more than just a friendship with JO.

Reading what's in bold, I can only think of Jeremy Irons in that Die Hard movie: 

[KateHearts]

First, some fashion commentary:  Now we know why Kody's hair had taken on a life of its own the past few episodes- he was growing it out in order to have enough to skin back (with gel, no less) into a tight man-bun.  Awesome.

Robyn wears the worst clothes- a la Chico's- with the lovely leggings.  Add a cheap necklace and there you go.  I used to think she was kind of pretty but man, the back-to-back pregnancies have changed her face into a big square and she's got a consistent RBF going on.

Meri has taken a full dive into the LuLaRoe style book.  Mixing hideous patterns in lotsa spandex is the way to go. Add the most hideous shoes on the planet and that ubiquitous "Statement Necklace" and you're the fashion maven of the plyg set!

Could the "Sister Wives' Luncheon" been any more awkward?  And did anyone notice that there was mention that they had "just finished therapy and decided to have lunch," but they were all in different outfits from the therapy session?

I don't know if it's me, but most of that conversation with Christine and Meri was lost on me.  Why the constant references to "safe"? Is there some sort of danger I'm not aware of? And Meri just constantly puts on that pucker face and is "guarded."  I think that's another word for "cold bitch," but I'm really not sure. "I'm guarded right now! My wall is going up!" she says- which is just a lame excuse to carry her grudge another day.  I sure wouldn't want her at my birth experience, either. 

And speaking of the birth, who assigned Kody the task of being his DAUGHTER's birth coach? I heard him in there yelling "PUSH! PUSH!" I don't care if my father had been the last human on the planet, he would have not been in there looking at my privates as I pushed out a baby. Nope.

[Owwwww ma leg]

Question? When the fam ate in Alaska and Meri  is alluding to leaving, is it because she is genuinely scared that JO is going to ruin the family or is planning her get away with her banana? I have rewatched and I’m not sure of the time line or if Meri is being honest?

[Kellyee]

Quote

Question? When the fam ate in Alaska and Meri  is alluding to leaving, is it because she is genuinely scared that JO is going to ruin the family or is planning her get away with her banana? I have rewatched and I’m not sure of the time line or if Meri is being honest?

My personal opinion on this is that Meri was in love and getting ready to run away with the person she thought was Sam. More telling is how little the family reacted at that meal when Meri announced out of nowhere that she was taking off. They acted like she had just announced she was leaving for a week, and not possibly for forever. Most of the family has been emotionally disconnected from Meri for a very long time.