S02.E17: This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life

[Dowel Jones]

1 hour ago, howiveaddict said:

I would think that would be so in many states

Under the principles of minor consent and implied consent, medical personnel, especially EMS or ED personnel, have quite a latitude in determining the level of treatment given to a minor.  Certainly, all attempts must be made to contact the parent or guardian, but generally the staff can take reasonable action to stabilize a patient, and even do surgery if the doctor feels it is necessary to prevent further imminent harm or long term damage.  That's how I was taught a long time ago in Basic EMT class.

[bros402]

18 hours ago, Haleth said:

It was so sad seeing the kids schlepped around.  Poor Raven, willing to stay in a house where she was beaten rather than being moved to an uncertain home again.  

I so agree.  Being in a secure home is one thing, but she still loves her mother.  Even though Deja loves the Pearson family I can't imagine the feeling of abandonment she will experience once again when she wakes up to find Shauna gone.  

I didn't love that the show spent an entire episode on Deja's backstory, but that little girl is a superb actress.  Her non verbal work is wonderful.  Tears my heart out.  How old is she supposed to be?  Everyone is calling her a teen but she looks barely 13.  Is that old enough according to NJ CPS to be a latchkey kid?

No age minimum here in NJ - http://nj1015.com/what-age-is-the-right-age-to-leave-your-child-home-alone/

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I felt for Deja and I really hope that she doesn't think all of this is her fault because she cut her hand open. She was trying to do a nice thing (make dinner for her mom's birthday) and when she cut herself using the inadequate tools available to her, she did all the right things: put pressure on the wound, called her mom, and went to the ER.

It never occurred to me until watching this episode, but almost the exact same thing happened to my family. My parents almost NEVER left us alone. They did not go on overnight trips or weekend getaways. They almost never went out to dinner without us too. When we were younger, my parents split up their work schedules so that one of them was always home with us when we left for school in the morning and when we got home from school in the afternoon. I know that they made a lot of sacrifices so that we would not be latchkey kids. My dad worked a regular day job and went to school at night. My mom worked the third shift and also had a part time job during the day. This meant my dad was home with us at night while we were asleep. My mom got home from her third shift job, made us breakfast, took us to school, then went home and napped before going to her part time job. Then she would leave her part time job in the afternoon so that she could pick us up from school, help us do our homework, make dinner, and put us to bed.

When I was in high school, my parents were much better off financially than when I was a little kid. And since we were older, they finally decided to take a day trip for my mom's birthday. They flew to Las Vegas for the day (we lived in California so it's like an hour flight) and said they would be back after dinner. They were gone less than ten hours in total. I was 15 at the time, so my two sisters were 6 and 13. There used to be these microwave brownie packs you could buy at the grocery store. The box came with brownie mix and a plastic brownie pan. You just dumped the brownie mix into the plastic square, added an egg (and I think oil), mixed it together with a fork, and then threw it in the microwave.

My 13 sister LOVED overbaked brownies so she deliberately set the time on the microwave longer than the directions said so that they came out hard. She was on the phone holding the plastic container in one hand and cutting through the hard brownies with the other hand. Like I said, the brownies were really hard. The knife wasn't going through so she pushed extra hard and cut through the brownies, the plastic pan, and straight into the middle of her palm and started bleeding everywhere. It was like a geyser of blood just pouring out.

She put pressure on it but it was still bleeding. I called my boyfriend (who was a year older and could therefore drive) to tell him I needed him to come pick us up so we could take her to the ER. Luckily the bleeding stopped after about ten minutes so crisis averted, but if we had showed up to the hospital with no parents, would social services have tried to put us in the system?

When my parents got home that evening and we told them what had happened, my mom was like, "SEE? This is why we are never leaving you alone again!"

7 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

This started with Jami Gertz, who employed Kate for about 15 minutes.  I think we should call the hiring of actors and actresses who should be on the show longer than the cameo their performance turns into The Jami Gertz Syndrome.  Why hire a big name, well established actor and utilize them for a nanosecond?  (I'm assuming we may see more of Sylvester Stallone when the movie Kevin was in is released. so perhaps he's a recurring character.  Kind of like Gerald McRaney.)

The Good Wife used to do the same thing. Just about every Tony Award winning Broadway actor guest starred on the show, often for only one episode with very few lines. I would get all excited that someone awesome was going to guest star and then they'd have one scene as a client and then never be seen again. So disappointing!

[Blakeston]

15 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I also don't see her as a damaged child. I get the impression that despite her life experiences, she's not completely harden to the world. She may not be bubbly and trusting right away, but she's perceptive.

There's a difference between being damaged, and being completely hardened to the world. The way that Deja was terribly on edge whenever she was around Randall during the early stages of her placement showed that the abuse she suffered did some damage to her psyche.

She isn't ruined, or dead inside. But her experiences have done some damage. Which is to be expected - it would be weird for someone to go through what she's been through completely unaffected by it.

[Jeddah]

I think if we only saw snippets of the Pearson’s childhood, they could also look really bad. Jack was an alcoholic. He drove drunk sometimes. Kevin almost drowned because nobody was paying attention to him. They lived in a house without working smoke detectors. The night of the fire nobody knew where Kevin was.

Beth and Randall’s family could look bad. Tess was in a car with Kevin while he was driving drunk, and her parents had no idea where she was. They let William, a man with a history of substance abuse who they barely knew, move in with them. Beth ate pot brownies with William in their house. Randall took some sort of hallucenegnic. He also has a history of mental breakdowns. He hasn’t held down a job in months. He followed their foster daughter into a bathroom when she was trying to get away from him.

Taken in isolation, these things look really, really bad. But due to class, their kids wouldn’t have been taken away. That’s why Shauna and Deja’s story is so sad to me. Shauna’s made really bad choices, but I think a lot of what happened to her was due to poverty and circumstances.

[luna1122]

I liked this one. It was sort of nice to get a semi-break from the Pearsons. I really felt for Deja and her mom, and the coolest grandma ever, which: yes, why get Pam Grier for a one off episode? Let her be Beth's mom/ or Randall's bio grandmom, or something!

I didn't think i'd really care about the episode, not because I don't like Deja, I do--the actress has such a dignified, quiet gravitas, and she's able to express so much with her face and eyes, I'm really impressed with her--but I didn't think I really needed to see her back story. But it turned out to be more compelling, to me, than many other episodes. Shauna is not a bad person. She messes up, like a lot of people do, and maybe has bad taste in men, and addiction issues. But she loves her kid, and she tries hard. Yeah, poverty and circumstance are what are mostly against her. Do we know who Deja's bio dad is? How long before he turns up?

[Eeksquire]

I didn't mind that the episode focused on Deja, but what I was not a big fan of was the pacing.  Very little happened, plot-wise, in this episode.  I understand what they were getting at with the flashbacks, but it was too much flashback and not enough plot, particularly this late in the season where things should be wrapping up instead of raising a whole bunch more questions.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

I think if we only saw snippets of the Pearson’s childhood, they could also look really bad. Jack was an alcoholic. He drove drunk sometimes. Kevin almost drowned because nobody was paying attention to him. They lived in a house without working smoke detectors. The night of the fire nobody knew where Kevin was.

Beth and Randall’s family could look bad. Tess was in a car with Kevin while he was driving drunk, and her parents had no idea where she was. They let William, a man with a history of substance abuse who they barely knew, move in with them. Beth ate pot brownies with William in their house. Randall took some sort of hallucenegnic. He also has a history of mental breakdowns. He hasn’t held down a job in months. He followed their foster daughter into a bathroom when she was trying to get away from him.

Taken in isolation, these things look really, really bad. But due to class, their kids wouldn’t have been taken away. That’s why Shauna and Deja’s story is so sad to me. Shauna’s made really bad choices, but I think a lot of what happened to her was due to poverty and circumstances.

So many good points.  I was thinking while watching that as far as Shauna prioritizing going out with friends instead of home to Deja for her birthday dinner, as crappy as that is, I have known a few women who have done those kinds of things, who are not black and not living hand to mouth, and their kids never ended up in foster care.  There are class and race angles in this, for sure. 

However, I was giving Shauna pretty much leeway until this episode, where she decides to abandon Deja, at least that is the way it appears at the end of the episode.  We'll see, but I think the dramatic impact of everything we've seen would be lessened if she changes her mind.  Yet, this show does like its change-ups.  I also had a huge problem with Shauna leaving Deja alone with Lonzo and two other men -- very, very poor judgment, a set-up for something awful to happen.  Not just sexual assault which is horrendous enough, but it looks like Lonzo is a drug dealer and having him around puts both mother and daughter in danger. 

[ShadowFacts]

I finally got to run this whole emergency room episode and aftermath past my daughter the social worker.  She said yes, social services would have been called, but as to Deja getting removed to foster care, "helllll no that would never happen."  She said something that minor would trigger an investigation and maybe a social worker assigned to work with the family, maybe mom would have to get treatment, but probably not.  Not for a first incident.  I was not clear if the can opener injury was the very first encounter with the system, though, but if it was, Deja entering foster care wouldn't have happened because it is too traumatic and something minor doesn't justify it.  That's what I guessed but sometimes my guesses based on intuition or logic are smashed up against the rocks of reality. 

[cheewhiz]

On 06/03/2018 at 10:21 PM, KaveDweller said:

But then her mom showed up drunk.

She didn't appear to be drunk.  She said she only had one drink and I don't know why, but I believe her.  

[seniorpatriot]

In the past several weeks I have watched the 2 seasons of this entire show. Sometimes 2-3 shows back to back at night.

My overall take is that it has a lot of good things to it, I like the flashbacks personally. My biggest complaint is that the entire show was WAY too focused on the Randall story!  I think Kate and her Mom is a much more interesting story.

In one episode I saw that ever sense she was a kid, Kate has "disliked her Mom" she can never do anything right for her. Kate as a child and as an adult        complained if Mom did it one way, then complained because she didn't do it a different way. Beck couldn't win with her. But maybe since kate lost a baby they seem like they may be on the mends. 

I also kind of disliked Rebecca being so amazingly sweet and calm with the kids ALL THE TIME! No mom can raise 3 little kids like that without losing her cool sometimes. 

I liked Jack a lot. He reminds me of my own hubby. 

Kevin's character needs to be spiced up more. In spite of his recent rehab, I don't think the show uses his story enough to the full capacity. There are a lot of stories with him, they need to explore that more.

And knock it off with all the Randall stuff all the time. I was starting to get bored everytime his story came on.

[smartymarty]

47 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

but as to Deja getting removed to foster care, "helllll no that would never happen."  She said something that minor would trigger an investigation

But the investigation would show that they didn't have water.

I exclaimed "why can't Deja and her mother sleep together in that double bed?" when Deja went up to her "old" bedroom. The answer was: plot.

I don't see Shawna so much as abandoning her daughter as trying to do what's best for her. You wouldn't describe someone giving a child up for adoption as abandoning that child....

Funny to me that people are referring to Deja's great-grandmother as Gigi. I assumed she was calling her "GG" (short for great grandma).

[Medicine Crow]

I don't think Shawna was really "cut out" to be a Mom.  Her choices were all skewed:  leaving Deja alone to go on a date; spending her last cent on bail (for a loser); moving the loser in with her & Deja; forgetting that Deja was cooking her birthday dinner & going "out"; ad infinitum.  I know she didn't rack up a lot of Mom points with me.  Just sayin'.

[ThisIsMe]

3 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

I didn't mind that the episode focused on Deja, but what I was not a big fan of was the pacing.  

Great point about the pacing.  It was totally different in this episode and more "traditional" in terms of storytelling.  

One of the things I love about TIU (prior to this episode) is the cut-backs, interweaves, etc. .... that all seem to make sense (or will make sense in the future).  Whoever is the editor for this series deserves an Emmy.

[TwoGrayTabbies]

Shauna was wrong to leave Randall and Beth’s house abruptly, without a word to Deja.  Any decision to arrange a placement or guardianship with the Pearsons could wait.  The only apparent reason for urgency was Shauna’s discomfort with Beth and Randall.  Her feelings of resentment, envy, and guilt did not come close to justifying her impulsive departure.  A night of emotional discomfort is nothing compared to all Deja had been through.

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, cheewhiz said:

She said she only had one drink and I don't know why, but I believe her.  

No alcoholic has ever had more than one drink. 

[Quickbeam]

This felt like a lazy clip show to me. BUT I was thrilled to see Debra Jo Rupp (SW Linda) get more work. She is very good here and I am so glad they cast her. 

[CelticBlackCat]

1 hour ago, Medicine Crow said:

I don't think Shawna was really "cut out" to be a Mom.  Her choices were all skewed:  leaving Deja alone to go on a date; spending her last cent on bail (for a loser); moving the loser in with her & Deja; forgetting that Deja was cooking her birthday dinner & going "out"; ad infinitum.  I know she didn't rack up a lot of Mom points with me.  Just sayin'.

This is what generally happens when a 16-year-old girl has a child.  It's children having children.  People focus on what they want in their 20s, so in that sense Shawna never grew up.  Deja has more sense in her head and maturity!

[Phoebe70]

Another episode where I didn't cry.  I did almost cry when it showed Jack and his brother as kids reading Goodnight Moon.  I look forward to finding out more of their childhood.

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, smartymarty said:

I don't see Shawna so much as abandoning her daughter as trying to do what's best for her. You wouldn't describe someone giving a child up for adoption as abandoning that child....

Giving up a baby for adoption is a lot different than giving up a child who you’ve raised and has bonded with you. Shauna doesn’t really know Beth and Randall. Other than spending two hours watching a movie together, most of her interactions with Randall have been very confrontational. And she was going to leave without saying goodbye. To me that is abandoning Deja.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

Giving up a baby for adoption is a lot different than giving up a child who you’ve raised and has bonded with you. Shauna doesn’t really know Beth and Randall. Other than spending two hours watching a movie together, most of her interactions with Randall have been very confrontational. And she was going to leave without saying goodbye. To me that is abandoning Deja.

I think Shauna still thinks she's 16, even though she's almost 30.  That's the problem with many (younger) millennials (yes, I realize I'm stereotyping).  I would love to know what Linda the Social Worker has to say about this.  And Deja, too.  

[TV Diva Queen]

I enjoyed this episode, it showed the parallels of the all Mighty Pearson and the poor folk. It gives us a break from Kate whining about something or other and all the Jack crap.  

[debraran]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I felt for Deja and I really hope that she doesn't think all of this is her fault because she cut her hand open. She was trying to do a nice thing (make dinner for her mom's birthday) and when she cut herself using the inadequate tools available to her, she did all the right things: put pressure on the wound, called her mom, and went to the ER.

It never occurred to me until watching this episode, but almost the exact same thing happened to my family. My parents almost NEVER left us alone. They did not go on overnight trips or weekend getaways. They almost never went out to dinner without us too. When we were younger, my parents split up their work schedules so that one of them was always home with us when we left for school in the morning and when we got home from school in the afternoon. I know that they made a lot of sacrifices so that we would not be latchkey kids. My dad worked a regular day job and went to school at night. My mom worked the third shift and also had a part time job during the day. This meant my dad was home with us at night while we were asleep. My mom got home from her third shift job, made us breakfast, took us to school, then went home and napped before going to her part time job. Then she would leave her part time job in the afternoon so that she could pick us up from school, help us do our homework, make dinner, and put us to bed.

When I was in high school, my parents were much better off financially than when I was a little kid. And since we were older, they finally decided to take a day trip for my mom's birthday. They flew to Las Vegas for the day (we lived in California so it's like an hour flight) and said they would be back after dinner. They were gone less than ten hours in total. I was 15 at the time, so my two sisters were 6 and 13. There used to be these microwave brownie packs you could buy at the grocery store. The box came with brownie mix and a plastic brownie pan. You just dumped the brownie mix into the plastic square, added an egg (and I think oil), mixed it together with a fork, and then threw it in the microwave.

My 13 sister LOVED overbaked brownies so she deliberately set the time on the microwave longer than the directions said so that they came out hard. She was on the phone holding the plastic container in one hand and cutting through the hard brownies with the other hand. Like I said, the brownies were really hard. The knife wasn't going through so she pushed extra hard and cut through the brownies, the plastic pan, and straight into the middle of her palm and started bleeding everywhere. It was like a geyser of blood just pouring out.

She put pressure on it but it was still bleeding. I called my boyfriend (who was a year older and could therefore drive) to tell him I needed him to come pick us up so we could take her to the ER. Luckily the bleeding stopped after about ten minutes so crisis averted, but if we had showed up to the hospital with no parents, would social services have tried to put us in the system?

When my parents got home that evening and we told them what had happened, my mom was like, "SEE? This is why we are never leaving you alone again!"

The Good Wife used to do the same thing. Just about every Tony Award winning Broadway actor guest starred on the show, often for only one episode with very few lines. I would get all excited that someone awesome was going to guest star and then they'd have one scene as a client and then never be seen again. So disappointing!

The sad thing was even if she was able to make that long, complicated recipe from her grandmother, her mom wasn't coming straight home, which I found sadder than her cutting her hand.

My mom only left me once with her sister to go on a long weekend with my Dad. My sisters who were 6 years older, stayed with a friend. I got strep and a fever and she blamed herself (the only time I got strep I think) Sometimes things just don't go as planned but I was in good hands, just not hers.

[ShadowFacts]

5 hours ago, smartymarty said:

But the investigation would show that they didn't have water.

I exclaimed "why can't Deja and her mother sleep together in that double bed?" when Deja went up to her "old" bedroom. The answer was: plot.

I don't see Shawna so much as abandoning her daughter as trying to do what's best for her. You wouldn't describe someone giving a child up for adoption as abandoning that child....

Funny to me that people are referring to Deja's great-grandmother as Gigi. I assumed she was calling her "GG" (short for great grandma).

Temporarily not having water is not a reason to remove a child.  Social services would work with a family to get problems solved before placing kids in foster care.

As others have said better than I could, when you take off and leave your child in the middle of the night without a word of explanation to the child and after giving it a few minutes of thought, that is very different from placing one for adoption.

I think GG is short for great-grandma, it is in our family, and we spell it Gigi if we write it, because they are sort of equivalent.  It's just cute. 

[KaveDweller]

7 hours ago, cheewhiz said:

She didn't appear to be drunk.  She said she only had one drink and I don't know why, but I believe her.  

We only saw her briefly, when she came in. But the social worker mentioned smelling alcohol on her, so it seemed like we were meant to think she was.

I don't know how old Deja was supposed to be in that scene (I think it was a few years before current time) or how late it was when the mother showed up. But honestly, it seemed like her mom was supposed to be a bit of a mess.

[BoogieBurns]

4 hours ago, PRgal said:

I think Shauna still thinks she's 16, even though she's almost 30.  That's the problem with many (younger) millennials (yes, I realize I'm stereotyping). 

I think this is a young-parent thing across many generations. I see it in my family from aunts and cousins of all ages. Those who had kids young (anything under 20 is young to me, post 1950) seem to be stunted at that age for a very long time. My cousin had her kid at 17, her mom raised the grandkid, and I often forget that my cousin is the mom, not the sister. She acts like her children. She didn't finish her childhood so she is holding onto it for dear life. Watch Teen Mom. Those girls are like 24 now and they are still fighting with their parents like they are fresh out of puberty. 

This isn't fool proof, my dad was 19 when my oldest sister was born and he has been acting like an old man since he was a pre-teen. But outliers always exist.

I am a very old soul who happens to fall under that millennial umbrella. Many of us are mature. But I understand how it seems to be a millennial thing right now because we are currently the young adults.

[Kira53]

10 hours ago, smartymarty said:

But the investigation would show that they didn't have water.

I exclaimed "why can't Deja and her mother sleep together in that double bed?" when Deja went up to her "old" bedroom. The answer was: plot.

I don't see Shawna so much as abandoning her daughter as trying to do what's best for her. You wouldn't describe someone giving a child up for adoption as abandoning that child....

Funny to me that people are referring to Deja's great-grandmother as Gigi. I assumed she was calling her "GG" (short for great grandma).

 

Deja asked to go to her old rooom.  She instigated the “seperation” from her mother.  She could have asked her mother to share that bed.  That night she didn’t want to.  She was asking for space.  Her mother leaving that did not mean she was giving her up for adoption.

[debraran]

7 hours ago, Kira53 said:

 

Deja asked to go to her old rooom.  She instigated the “seperation” from her mother.  She could have asked her mother to share that bed.  That night she didn’t want to.  She was asking for space.  Her mother leaving that did not mean she was giving her up for adoption.

I felt like that too. I thought, they are giving her the couch in a new home when she could bunk with Deja? Deja brushed her off, miffed of course but still, she'll have guilt later. I thought Beth and Randall seemed to do little to ask her mom to stay and where would she go? To go from a cold apartment to your car to Randall and Beth's home must seem discombobulating and of course Deja was more comfortable, but have her help her Mom feel so. It felt like "this is my safe place, I have a cool room, people who care about me, they are rich" you don't belong here.

I'm sure that feeling will end by next show but that's my gut feeling when Deja, being upset with her mom, went to bed. If she wasn't homeless I wouldn't have been so concerned about her next step.

Edited March 9, 2018 by debraran

[ShadowFacts]

The intent was to have both Deja and Shauna together downstairs because the basement was a mess.  I think Beth said it would have to do for now, so the idea was probably to straighten up the basement for them the next day.  When Deja, a kid who had been sleeping in a car, asked for her old room, they wouldn't say no.  I think it would have been perfectly appropriate to have Shauna stay on the couch, or go up with Deja, either way.  Plot-wise, it worked to have Deja split upstairs.  To me the thing that stung the most was Deja starting to head upstairs without a goodnight or a hug, Shauna had to initiate it, and that really hit Shauna.  Made her get honest with herself and Beth. 

[cameron]

I also never read Goodnight Moon to my son who was born in 1972.  In fact, never heard of it till a few years ago.  Read him alot of other stories though.  Especially liked "The Littlest Angel" which made me cry everytime I read it to him.  Able to find a beautifully illustrated copy of this that I gave to my grandson when he was born.

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

I choose to just enjoy this show instead of picking it apart and criticizing it.

Me too, though I do understand why some others choose to do so. 

I think viewers have to be patient with this show. All will be revealed eventually. I loved this episode. This show, besides being entertaining, can also be informative. 

[MsChicklet]

Something that struck me about the way the characters were threaded together. If it wasn't for Jack and Rebecca losing Kyle (which is why it bugs when Kevin and Kate are called twins), Randall could have been Deja. Or Raven. Jack, like Deja, had an unstable home with parents who couldn't be relied on. Shauna had no idea how to connect with Deja at first, as Rebecca struggled with Randall. Kevin may be a mess who has gotten where he is thanks to good looks and charm, but he also is talented enough to star in a TV show that gave Deja some laughs and a short escape. 

I saw an article recently that said luck had more to do with how things work out for people than previously thought. With Deja, luck brought her to the Pearsons, but it was her natural resilience, something she got from her Gigi that Shauna didn't, that enabled her to open up to them and still love her mother. I wonder how things would have been if it had been Raven instead of Deja that Linda sent to Randall and Beth.

[candall]

I like this show so much, they can show me peripheral character backstories if that's what they want to do.  (An 18-episode season is kind of chintzy, though, show.  Don't take advantage of my affection.)

 

Doesn't seem strange to me CPS is called when an unescorted child shows up at the ER.  And then what is CPS supposed to do when Shauna arrives?  "Well, we'll have to call you a cab because you're too drunk to drive this kid home"?

 

I appreciated they didn't have Social Worker Linda clutching her pearls and questioning whether foster monster dad was really beating them.  She just walked them right out the door, so good for her.

 

Sad for Deja to wake up and find her mother has split, but very tidy for the Pearsons.

[topanga]

23 minutes ago, candall said:

I appreciated they didn't have Social Worker Linda clutching her pearls and questioning whether foster monster dad was really beating them.  She just walked them right out the door, so good for her.

Unfortunately, social workers see a lot of this—and worse. Fortunately, however, most foster parents are not abusive. 

[ChelleGame]

On 3/7/2018 at 8:07 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

However, Raven won me over. I kind of wish she had been fostered by Randall's family.

That little actress was so charismatic. Enough so that not knowing what happened to her stressed me out because my mind filled in the blanks.

[seniorpatriot]

On 3/7/2018 at 12:53 PM, mansfolly said:

Forgot to add this earlier, I was wondering if the producers are looking to spin off the Deja/Shawna story for its own show - considering the popularity of "This is Us". 

Well, that is one show that I would not watch. It is all too cliche (clishay)

[Clanstarling]

On 3/7/2018 at 7:53 AM, deaja said:

When he entered the room and closed the door, I was momentarily afraid Shauna would accuse him of inappropriate behavior with Deja.

He, very carefully, left the door partially open. Not widely, but it was open. At least as much as I required my kids to have their doors open when they had visitors of opposite genders (the joke's on me - they're both gay, as it turns out)

On 3/8/2018 at 1:12 PM, PRgal said:

I think Shauna still thinks she's 16, even though she's almost 30.  That's the problem with many (younger) millennials (yes, I realize I'm stereotyping).  I would love to know what Linda the Social Worker has to say about this.  And Deja, too.  

Eh, I've known plenty of boomers (my generation) and gen x'rs who never matured past their teens. I also know plenty of immensely responsible millennials. I see it as a human condition, not a generational one. I, myself, was "old" and responsible from the get-go, whereas my brother made pretty much the same mistakes as Shawna.

On 3/8/2018 at 2:51 PM, ShadowFacts said:

I think GG is short for great-grandma, it is in our family, and we spell it Gigi if we write it, because they are sort of equivalent.  It's just cute. 

My closed captioning said "G-G."

Edited March 10, 2018 by Clanstarling

[movingtargetgal]

On 3/8/2018 at 12:44 PM, Medicine Crow said:

I don't think Shawna was really "cut out" to be a Mom.  Her choices were all skewed:  leaving Deja alone to go on a date; spending her last cent on bail (for a loser); moving the loser in with her & Deja; forgetting that Deja was cooking her birthday dinner & going "out"; ad infinitum.  I know she didn't rack up a lot of Mom points with me.  Just sayin'.

Deia was very lucky to have GiGi caring for her when she was a small child.  She was raising Deja AND her mother.  When GiGi died, Deja at all of 4 years old became her mother's caretaker.  Shauna is not a monster, she is immature and selfish who will never be the kind of parent Deja deserves.  Shauna spent the rent money on bail for her boyfriend.  She made a choice that caused her daughter to become homeless.  In the flashbacks we saw Deja taking on the family budget. 

When Beth and Randall brought Shauna and Deja home, Shauna got to experience just how much Deja fit in as a part of the Pearson family.  As she admitted to Beth that it was the first time she saw Deja acting like a kid.  That was a moment of clarity for her and she realized that Deja deserved better that what she has to offer her.  Shauna's letting go of Deja was the best decision she has ever made as a parent.  It was probably the first time she put Deja's needs ahead of her own wants.  However, in true Shauna style she took the easy way out by leaving in the middle of the night.  She owed it to Deja to stay the night and explain to Deja why she was leaving her in the Pearson's care.  Deja is an old soul like her Gigi and I don't think she will be surprised to wake up to find Shauna gone.  I don't think Shauna will disappear from her life and Deja will continue having a relationship with her mother.  Shauna does love Deja but she is ill equipped to be a good mother.  

[chocolatine]

On 3/9/2018 at 1:04 PM, candall said:

Sad for Deja to wake up and find her mother has split, but very tidy for the Pearsons.

The bolded part is exactly why I have a problem with Shauna just handing over Deja after one dinner. The show is using it to justify Randall's outrageous behavior towards Shauna and Linda earlier in the season, trying to convince us that he was right all along. Just like they do with Jack excluding Rebecca from all major life decisions - she always resigns herself comes around, so that means Jack is always right. The show is veering too close to male chauvinism territory for my liking.

Edited March 10, 2018 by chocolatine

[candall]

11 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

The bolded part is exactly why I have a problem with Shauna just handing over Deja after one dinner. The show is using it to justify Randall's outrageous behavior towards Shauna and Linda earlier in the season, trying to convince us that he was right all along. Just like they do with Jack excluding Rebecca from all major life decisions - she always resigns herself comes around, so that means Jack is always right. The show is veering too close to male chauvinism territory for my liking.

Totally agree about the Jack and Rebecca analysis; less sure about the Randall justification.

 

I think the writers just chose to nip--somewhat unrealistically--what would most likely become a very messy situation with both Deja and Shauna living at the Pearsons'.  Yikes, the complicated dynamics of Shauna sticking around would fill its own spin-off:  two mother-figures for Deja, two role models with different coping mechanisms for one stressed-out girl, the errant boyfriend, Shauna's possible conflict with pride, gratitude, resentment. . .

It's a story I would enjoy watching, though.  Call me when This Is Deja premieres.

[smartymarty]

On 3/10/2018 at 3:05 PM, candall said:

Yikes, the complicated dynamics of Shauna sticking around would fill its own spin-off

Well, the solution would be to have Shauna gone for a more definite reason, like she's still using drugs. or gets hit by a car and is killed (giving Deja and Randall a shared "my parent died when I was a kid" story). Shauna leaving Deja because Deja's better off with Randall and Beth is a confirmation of Randall's position.

[Mystery]

On 3/8/2018 at 2:51 PM, ShadowFacts said:

Temporarily not having water is not a reason to remove a child.  Social services would work with a family to get problems solved before placing kids in foster care.

I agree with this. My company creates online training for, among other organizations, people who are mandated or permissive child abuse reporters. We tell them to report what they see without trying to investigate, because it's not their job or expertise to investigate. We also tell them that poverty isn't a crime. In that case, if they report a child without winter clothing or who seems hungry, what they're doing is giving social services a chance to get the family the resources they need. In the absence of actual abuse (or repeated neglect) social services' aim is always to try to keep families together. 

I wasn't happy that the whole episode was about Deja, but I had a few of the thoughts that the people here had: whether she and her mother could live in the apartment building that Randall and Beth bought (maybe Shauna could be the live-in manager who reports problems?) and though I know it's probably not possible, I wish I'd learn just a little bit about how Raven's doing. What a bright actress she was. 

At our house, the rule was that we couldn't call my mother at work (my father's job wasn't always accessible to a phone) unless (1) we were bleeding and (2) it was bad enough for stitches. Since stitches were the horror of every kid in my childhood, my mother did not get called. :-)

[Blakeston]

On 3/8/2018 at 11:36 AM, ShadowFacts said:

I finally got to run this whole emergency room episode and aftermath past my daughter the social worker.  She said yes, social services would have been called, but as to Deja getting removed to foster care, "helllll no that would never happen."  She said something that minor would trigger an investigation and maybe a social worker assigned to work with the family, maybe mom would have to get treatment, but probably not.  Not for a first incident.

But what if the investigation showed that the mother had a terrible substance abuse problem? That's how Linda made it sound.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

But what if the investigation showed that the mother had a terrible substance abuse problem? That's how Linda made it sound.

If there was abuse or neglect, substance abuse problem or not, a parent could expect to lose custody at least temporarily.  But that's not what happened, Shauna was out drinking with friends after work.  That alone isn't a reason to remove a child.  Not great parenting, but lots of parents have social lives that get in the way of good parenting and they don't lose their kids. The way we were shown the situation, she wasn't obviously impaired.  It turned out that later she went into rehab, but it also turned out that Deja went from a non-abusive home to an abusive one.  Did Shauna begin drinking more because her child was taken?  Maybe.  Maybe she would have anyway.  Would Deja have been neglected if she had stayed with Shauna?  Maybe.  Unless there were previous encounters with the "system", Shauna was doing okay with Deja from the age of 3 to 12.  That's not a bad record, and she loves her kid, which is obviously more than the foster father did.  No excusing Shauna not having Deja as her first priority, but if Deja hadn't lucked out with placement with the Pearsons, her next home might have been pretty dismal as well.

[Blakeston]

11 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

If there was abuse or neglect, substance abuse problem or not, a parent could expect to lose custody at least temporarily.  But that's not what happened, Shauna was out drinking with friends after work.  That alone isn't a reason to remove a child.  Not great parenting, but lots of parents have social lives that get in the way of good parenting and they don't lose their kids. The way we were shown the situation, she wasn't obviously impaired.  It turned out that later she went into rehab, but it also turned out that Deja went from a non-abusive home to an abusive one.  Did Shauna begin drinking more because her child was taken?  Maybe.  Maybe she would have anyway.  Would Deja have been neglected if she had stayed with Shauna?  Maybe.  Unless there were previous encounters with the "system", Shauna was doing okay with Deja from the age of 3 to 12.  That's not a bad record, and she loves her kid, which is obviously more than the foster father did.  No excusing Shauna not having Deja as her first priority, but if Deja hadn't lucked out with placement with the Pearsons, her next home might have been pretty dismal as well.

How do we know that Shawna didn't have a bad substance abuse problem at the time Deja cut her hand?

She claimed it was only one drink when she showed up at the hospital, but she could have easily changed her tune.

The only way the storyline makes any sense is if either a) Shawna, when pressed, admitted she'd been drinking excessively and agreed to go into rehab, or b) the investigation showed that she had a terrible drinking problem, and she agreed to go into rehab to avoid losing her daughter.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, Blakeston said:

How do we know that Shawna didn't have a bad substance abuse problem at the time Deja cut her hand?

She claimed it was only one drink when she showed up at the hospital, but she could have easily changed her tune.

The only way the storyline makes any sense is if either a) Shawna, when pressed, admitted she'd been drinking excessively and agreed to go into rehab, or b) the investigation showed that she had a terrible drinking problem, and she agreed to go into rehab to avoid losing her daughter.

We don't know the extent of her problem, we haven't been shown that she was in the throes of abuse, only that she was drinking, and then subsequently at some point was in rehab.  I agree the story line does not make sense.  If they wanted to show Shauna roaring drunk, falling down, cursing and causing a ruckus, they could have.  As it was, they didn't go that route.  Social services would follow-up, maybe recommend treatment which isn't always in-patient, especially for lower-income people, and possibly parenting classes.  Removing a child is seriously traumatic and isn't done lightly.  We know it has to be happening for Deja so she can get with the Pearsons, but it's not being shown realistically.  Which, what else is new for TV drama, I realize.  I am guessing they don't want to demonize Shauna too much. 

[Rockstar99435]

On 3/6/2018 at 7:19 PM, Empress1 said:

I actually really liked this episode. I think the actress who plays Deja is terrific, and I felt tremendously protective of her - I just wanted to give her a hug. (I was like "Oooh, Pam Grier!" and it took me a minute to realize that we were going to lose her, given that they ended up in their car.) Being young, poor, Black, and a single mother is so precarious - the reason Deja ended up in foster care was a simple accident, and then things snowballed from there.

I'm conflicted about Shawna leaving Deja with the Pearsons. On one hand, I was affected by seeing Deja's time with the Pearsons through Shawna's eyes. Shawna isn't a bad person, she's a young person who never quite got it together, then made some bad decisions, including relying on Deja too much. At the Pearsons, Deja is protected and cared for and isn't relied on to help run the house. But on the other, is Shawna so far gone that she has zero chance of giving Deja a decent life? She's not and won't be as wealthy as the Pearsons, but that doesn't mean she can't be there for her daughter and start to be an adult.

Jezebel did a series of articles a few months ago featuring stories from women who had been through the foster care system, either as kids or parents or, frequently, both. Women of color are a lot more likely to have their children removed for things that would only result in a warning if the mother were white. Shawna needed support from Family services and instead just lost her child. We need to do more to help poor mothers before they reach the point of leaving their kids alone because they're at work.

At the same time, Deja doesn't have time to wait for her mother to grow up and make good choices. She needs a stable home now. She should be focused on her grades, her friends, her future, etc. and not worrying about whether their heat is going to be turned off or whether her mom is going to use their rent money to bail out the man who caused Shawna to be arrested and Deja to end back in foster care again. I liked that Shawna's story was more balanced than William's. She made some bad choices, but she also was a victim of poverty.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Rockstar99435 said:

She made some bad choices, but she also was a victim of poverty.

She had a great role model in her grandmother, who provided a good home for both Shauna and Deja, and I'm sure encouraged Shauna to focus on her education. I think GG must have left Shauna some money as well, since we didn't see her having financial trouble until several years later. Shauna had opportunities and chose to squander them, so I don't see her as a victim.

[Scarlett45]

Wrong thread!! 

 

Thank you @chocolatine

Edited March 14, 2018 by Scarlett45

[chocolatine]

@Scarlett45 wrong thread. :)

Edited March 14, 2018 by chocolatine