S02.E17: This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life

[Blakeston]

10 hours ago, chaifan said:

I don't understand why child services was called on Deja in the first place.  She was a teenager left alone at a normal dinner time.  Yes, she injured herself, but there was no sign of abuse or anything worse than just being a poor latchkey kid. 

My guess is that Deja was supposed to be 11 when she injured her hand. (Although obviously the actress looks older than that.)

IIRC we were told that Deja was twelve when she first entered Randall and Beth's home. And she'd already been through the drama with the abusive foster father, so the injury hadn't just happened.

If an eleven-year-old injures herself while left home alone, and she says her mother is at work but the mother isn't at work and can't be reached, and then the mother shows up drunk at the hospital, social services is likely to be called in.

1 hour ago, Biggie B said:

Was she drunk when she finally showed up at the ER? I didn't pick up on that. She said she was at work, then went out with friends for her birthday and her phone died. She was definitely upset and a bit frantic, but I didn't get the impression she was drunk.

When the mother showed up at the hospital, the social worker said she could smell alcohol on her breath. The mother protested that she'd only had one drink. Soon after that, the social worker was telling Deja that she needed to stay somewhere while her mother got clean.

I feel like, even after this episode, we know remarkably little about what Deja's actual personality is like. She likes Beyonce and The Manny, and she thinks Randall's jokes are corny, and we're told that she's smart. That's a start, I guess, and it's not like we know a whole lot about Tessa and Annie either. But she's not a terribly well-developed character, especially for one who had a whole episode devoted to her. She seems more like a symbol of a damaged child than anything else.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Blakeston

[Empress1]

56 minutes ago, mansfolly said:

Like some of you, I was never really interested or invested in the Deja story. But I thought they did a very good job providing us a background and how it can be for a child in her position, in the system and trying to survive an unreliable - to say the least - mother.

I turned away when she was left alone with those three men in the apartment after her mom went off to work -- I thought she was going to be abused. Thank God she just went off to school.

I hope she one day reunites with that young girl friend from her first foster home.

I think we got a few glimpses / flashbacks of Jack and his brother (reading the Moon story, etc.)

My very favorite part of the entire episode, was the SNL commercial about SKB making us cry and hosting SNL this week. Fun-ny!

Word.

My friend that I mentioned above, the one who adopted as a single foster mom? Her daughter was taken out of her bio mom's house because bio mom's boyfriend was having sex with her older sister (which Bio Mom knew). My friend's daughter wasn't abused; she was the whistle-blower - she told a teacher what was going on, and the teacher reported it. I know a few other foster parents (including people who adopted kids out of foster care) and all of them tell stories of sexual abuse their foster kids suffered in previous homes. People are horrible. So yeah, whenever Deja was alone with men, I was on edge. And Raven experienced it too - "at least he only hits."

11 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I'm probably the only person in North America who wasn't read "Goodnight, Moon" over and over as a child (#darnimmigrantparents).  I assure you that I WAS read to, though - in Cantonese AND English.  Anyway, I think it's established that Gigi/Nana (aka Pam Grier) is Shawna's grandmother, not mom.  So my question is:  Where is SHAWNA's mom?  I don't think we were told?  And if Randall/Beth DO adopt Deja, I hope there is some sort of open relationship with Shawna.  And I hope Deja doesn't resent the fact that Shawna just "dumped" her with the Pearsons (she honestly didn't, but Deja doesn't know that.  Deja may resent Beth, thinking SHE was the one who convinced Shawna to leave).

I assumed Shawna's mother took off long ago, maybe because of issues with addiction. The dynamic I was getting from Shawna and Pam Grier was that Pam Grier had raised her and that Shawna was next in a cycle of young single mothers. I assumed Pam Grier was worried about Shawna abandoning Deja the same way Shawna's mom had, the way she was trying to get Shawna to bond with Deja in the hospital.

2 minutes ago, albinerhawk said:

I actually liked this episode, and I get the fact that now that Deja is going to be a permanent fixture she deserves a flashback. Yet, I can't help but realize that neither Tess or Annie have gotten a real flashback. The closest we have gotten is Tess's birth. Part of it may be that they probably have rather boring lives up til now, but still.

I wouldn't expect them to. Annie is what, six? (She is SO CUTE.) Like, flash back to what? We've seen her in other characters' flashbacks where they fit into the story (e.g. Annie with William, which is one of my favorite scenes because of the way William speaks to her), and I think that makes sense.

[Guest]

The part that really bugs me about her mom possibly leaving is that we saw how much Deja missed her mom when they were separated. I’m hoping there is a compromise where Deja and Shauna can live in their apartment building or something where it’s not a 15 year old girl’s mom giving her up to a “better” family.

[Blakeston]

21 minutes ago, PRgal said:

I'm probably the only person in North America who wasn't read "Goodnight, Moon" over and over as a child (#darnimmigrantparents).  I assure you that I WAS read to, though - in Cantonese AND English.  Anyway, I think it's established that Gigi/Nana (aka Pam Grier) is Shawna's grandmother, not mom.  So my question is:  Where is SHAWNA's mom?  I don't think we were told? 

When Deja's mother didn't want to hold her, Pam Grier made a comment that she's just like her mother. So presumably she was a somewhat absent parent as well.

I'm guessing they're leaving the door open to cast someone like Angela Basset for a Very Special Episode where Deja's grandmother shows up and demands to raise Deja herself.

[Biggie B]

12 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

When the mother showed up at the hospital, the social worker said she could smell alcohol on her breath. The mother protested that she'd only had one drink. Soon after that, the social worker was telling Deja that she needed to stay somewhere while her mother got clean.

Ah, I missed that (I was not paying complete attention to this episode, I must admit!).

[topanga]

1 hour ago, BonnieD said:

One peeve though, their apartment was WAY TOO NICE! Yes, I get that it was Grandma's apt before she died and they inherited it, but if the mom was drinking and drugging for very long, they would long since have lost the apartment, or at have sold off the decor at least.

Was the mom using drugs? I know she was in an out of rehab, but I thought that was for alcohol. She always worked, even picking up extra shifts at the grocery store. Sadly, many service jobs such as hers don’t actually pay a living wage. And it seemed like Deja did most of the cooking and cleaning at home. 

I like that Deja was shown as always being smart, instead of Randall and Beth magically discovering her intelligence. 

I enjoyed this episode, although I wish there was more than one more remaining episode to address some of this season’s issues.  Loved seeing Pam Grier. But her face seemed weird: is she on steroids for a medical condition or maybe had bad plastic surgery? (she certainly didn’t need it). I mean, I know she’s gained some weight, as women often do, but the texture of her face was irregular. 

 

2 hours ago, morgan said:

I really enjoyed it when Deja was talking to Randall about how everyone sleeps because I do that, too.  

Randall, Randall, Randall. The final scene between him and Deja was emotional and powerful, but I was distracted by the cringeworthiness of the blocking:

• In probably 99 times out of 100, a foster father shouldn't enter his teenage foster daughter's room alone.  Not when the two of them still don't know each other very well and haven't established months, if not years, of trust. I'm glad that Deja has never been sexually abused, but many foster children have been. So a tall man standing at Deja's door staring at her could have been a trigger for her, or it might have raised suspicions if Linda or Shawna saw this play out.  I know Randall was not about to abuse her, and I know that his look to Deja was only full of love and concern, but to the uninformed eye, it could have looked like a creepy stare at a teenage girl. 

• If a foster father does enter the room of his teenage foster daughter, and it's just the two of them, you don't close the door, and you certainly don't follow that up by sitting on her bed and hugging her. Again, I know Randall's actions were completely innocent, and I'm not trying to suggest anything sinister. I'm talking about perceptions and Deja's possible reactions. 

  Or maybe it's just me. I grew up in the '80s and '90s when people were finally starting to believe children's stories of sexually abuse. But what it also meant was that adults in authority who seemed 'too friendly' with a child were often accused of sexual abuse: teacher, coach, foster parents, and even biological parents. In many cases a disgusting abuser was correctly identified and punished. But there were also times that innocent interactions were misinterpreted. To this day, I don't even like hugging other people's children unless they’re family members or I'm close friends with the family and know the parents. Or if it happens when I'm doing volunteer work with children, I always look around for their parents and give them a smile and a wave, like, "Hi! I'm not being inappropriate with your child."

The scene that almost made me cry was watching Deja and Raven leave the home of the father who abused them. Their belongings were in plastic trash bags, and it reminded me of the comedian/actress Tiffany Haddish’s stories about growing up in foster care. One of the things she said was that being moved around with all of your stuff in trash bags, not a suitcase, made her feel like she was garbage. Breaks my heart every time I hear it.

[ShadowFacts]

The little kid actors once again were so good -- tiny Deja was so precious, and little Jack and Nicky.  They're not just very, very cute, their scenes are shot so well and naturally that they are really a balm for me.  Contrasted with the problematic adults, I need more of them. 

[JudyObscure]

Well, this show has five main characters: Randall, Kate, Kevin, Jack and Rebecca, played by 11 different actors.  The main five all have significant others and Randall has two children.  Then there is Randall's bio father.  I'm up to 13 main characters without counting the different actors for different ages.  We just didn't need another main character.  It's almost put me over the edge of confusion.

I say "almost" because this show at its worst is still better than 90% of stuff on TV.

[Good Queen Jane]

Interview  with Susan Kelechi Watson on the situation with Deja and what was cut from the Magic Mike scene.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

Randall, Randall, Randall. The final scene between him and Deja was emotional and powerful, but I was distracted by the cringeworthiness of the blocking:

When he entered the room and closed the door, I was momentarily afraid Shauna would accuse him of inappropriate behavior with Deja.

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

I'm probably the only person in North America who wasn't read "Goodnight, Moon" over and over as a child (#darnimmigrantparents). 

I have no recollection of being read Goodnight Moon to, either.  My mother American mother read to me, read with me, and had me read to her but if we read goodnight moon it was before I had recollection of it.   

2 minutes ago, deaja said:

When he entered the room and closed the door, I was momentarily afraid Shauna would accuse him of inappropriate behavior with Deja.

This!   I was like, "I know Randall is not going to abuse this girl, but the optics!"

[DoubleUTeeEff]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

Was the mom using drugs? I know she was in an out of rehab, but I thought that was for alcohol. She always worked, even picking up extra shifts at the grocery store. Sadly, many service jobs such as hers don’t actually pay a living wage. And it seemed like Deja did most of the cooking and cleaning at home. 

At one point Deja said something to the social worker like, "She only uses that stuff because she misses me." I'm assuming it has to be something other than alcohol because then Deja would have just said "drinks" instead of "uses that stuff." 

I think that 99% of Deja and her mother's problems could be solved with money which makes their story all the more heartbreaking. I'm sure they would still be far from a perfect family but so are the Pearsons and they are solidly middle class.

I really want an actual social worker to weigh in on whether Deja would be taken away in that situation. It seemed so mild to me compared to what else goes on in the world. I just can't quite see it here. Deja cuts her hand. Her mother is temporarily unavailable but eventually shows up at the hospital that night.. Ok, she does smell like alcohol but it's legal to drink. It's not like she was falling over or completely incapacitated. And who would know that they didn't have water?

I liked Deja's back story more than the firefighter who found Randall's back story but I agree that it was too much. If they had to do it, maybe make it more like 50% Deja and 50% main characters.

However, Raven won me over. I kind of wish she had been fostered by Randall's family.

I HATED the fact that Deja's mother did not say good bye to her. That was totally and completely wrong. Especially considering Deja is a 12 year old who handles much more than many kids her age. 

[gonzosgirrl]

6 hours ago, debraran said:

Deja is very resilient and I hope they don't turn Randall into St Randall, I don't like that theme, but I do hope to see a realistic portrayal of how they integrate Deja into their family. I also hope she can live with her mother in their new apartment building and still stay close to them. Maybe Beth or Randall can help her Mom get a good job or training for one so she can be more stable and they can watch Deja as she goes to school or works odd hours.

Shawna's issues are more than just needing a good/better job though. First thing she needs to do is cut ties with the loser boyfriend and right up to the end, she's not willing to do that. But cutting herself out of her daughter's life isn't the answer, either. I feel like Randall and Beth won't let that happen.

I'm surprised they went with such a non-Pearson episode as the penultimate of the season, but I did enjoy it. Great performances all around. Generally speaking I avoid shows with kids/teens like the plague, but the characterizations as actual kids and not smarter/wiser/funnier-than-their-parents obnoxious brats is really well done, and the acting is spot-on. 

I am looking forward to next week, but actually kind of devastated that it's the end of the season already. Has there been any explanation as to why only 18 eps again? It's not exactly an expensive, action-heavy or effects-laden show, and I don't see how any of these actors would be getting outrageous salaries (though I imagine Sterling will be able to do some serious negotiating when the time comes, lol).

Edited March 7, 2018 by gonzosgirrl
typo

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Speaking of which, we see young William help Laurel deliver Randall in a bedroom, then the same bedroom without Laurel and the bed stripped of sheets. Assuming it's true that Laurel died in childbirth, what happened to her body? Didn't the fireman tell Jack the likely birth mother's body was found in an alley? Did "Saint" William dump her there?

I took that empty bed with a box of prescription bottles on it to be the bed where William's mother died, not Laurel. 

[MsChicklet]

17 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I took that empty bed with a box of prescription bottles on it to be the bed where William's mother died, not Laurel. 

Yes, that was William's mother's apartment. 

As to Laurel, there's a lot to explore there.

AV Club: Episode proves that "This Is Us" is one of the most formally inventive shows on television

Quote

“This Big, Amazing, Beautiful Life” takes all that knowledge we’ve amassed over the course of watching the show and uses it to compliment and complicate this deep dive into Deja’s life. Deja’s journey is often very tough to watch, but screenwriter Kay Oyegun makes the smart choice to ground it first and foremost in empathy. The only true villain in this episode (and rightly so) is Mr. Miller, the abusive foster father Deja is initially placed with after she’s taken away from Shauna. Elsewhere, Oyegun is careful to humanize all of her characters, even Shauna’s not-that-great boyfriend Lonzo. But the moment Lonzo charms at the dinner table or offers to help Deja with the dishes is less about deepening him as a character and more about helping us see why Shauna fell for him and why she continued to support him after he caused her so much trouble. Because above all, this episode is hugely empathetic towards Shauna, even as it doesn’t shy away from depicting her major flaws as a parent. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

When he entered the room and closed the door, I was momentarily afraid Shauna would accuse him of inappropriate behavior with Deja.

She would have been on shaky ground if she did that since she left Deja alone in the apartment with Lonzo and his fellow travelers. 

51 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I HATED the fact that Deja's mother did not say good bye to her. That was totally and completely wrong. Especially considering Deja is a 12 year old who handles much more than many kids her age. 

So wrong.  I was empathetic to Shauna all along until then. 

 

46 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Shawna's issues are more than just needing a good/better job though. First thing she needs to do is cut ties with the loser boyfriend and right up to the end, she's not willing to do that. But cutting herself out of her daughter's life isn't the answer, either. I feel like Randall and Beth won't let that happen.

Shauna is the same as her mother according to GiGi, they're both worried about boyfriends.  Shauna is repeating her mother's pattern.  Can she break out of that at this point?  I don't know, but Raven's words about finding a safe bed and then keeping it seem to indicate that Deja will be staying with the Pearsons.  I think it would be really sad if Shauna just disappears, and equally sad if she would terminate parental rights and let Deja be adopted.  I would prefer some middle ground where Deja is permanently out of her mother's care but has some relationship with her. 

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I HATED the fact that Deja's mother did not say good bye to her. That was totally and completely wrong. Especially considering Deja is a 12 year old who handles much more than many kids her age. 

I'm torn about it. (For now, anyway, I'm assuming that Shauna will call the next day and explain why she left.) Deja and Shauna are enmeshed, more than and worse than Kevin and Kate were. Shauna was essentially firing Deja from her job as Shauna's caretaker.  If Shauna had woken her that night to say good-bye, would Deja have let her go? Would she not have gotten into the car with her? Maybe, maybe not, but was it worth the risk? 

Deja was out of patience with her mother, but faced with actually losing her, wouldn't Deja have felt it was her duty to keep Shauna close? Even if Deja were convinced to let Shauna go -- and Shauna were still able to leave her, after that -- wouldn't seeing Shauna's pain be harder on Deja, than waking up to find her gone? Again, assuming that Shauna will call?  

On the other hand, now Deja has reason to feel for her mother again, and wonder if she would have left if Deja had stayed downstairs with her. In the past, Deja has at least seemed not to blame herself for the consequences of taking care of herself: going to the hospital, which resulted in her and Shauna's entering the system; telling Linda about the foster-father's abuse, which resulted in her and Raven's being separated; calling Randall. I hope she can keep up that good work.

[ProudMary]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Oh, ok! I honestly didn't know that. I guess I'm just used to TV cliches and I wasn't surprised that they wouldn't let Randall and Beth continue to foster for the rest of the series and that they'd adopt sooner rather than later to please Randall (though he isn't getting the little boy that he wanted). However, I get it. Lyric Ross is too talented to let go, so I guess she's sticking around. It's really fine with me and I enjoy Deja as a character. I've just seen this play out on TV quite a few times. I was actually interested in exploring the foster system more, so I'm hoping that will continue. 

Should This is Us choose to further explore the foster system--and I agree it's a good topic to explore--they can do so through the eyes of future Tess, the social worker.

Unlike many, I enjoyed last night's episode.  I like Deja as a character and Randall's story arc is my favorite of the Big Three so I have no issues with its expansion.  I do wish there would have been a bit more of a Pearson story line, however, because the episode had more the feel of a spinoff pilot debuting within an existing series than it did a character origin story.  Then again, if they want to give me a spinoff featuring Pam Grier, I'm all in!

[DoubleUTeeEff]

8 minutes ago, Pallas said:

I'm torn about it. (For now, anyway, I'm assuming that Shauna will call the next day and explain why she left.) Deja and Shauna are enmeshed, more than and worse than Kevin and Kate were. Shauna was essentially firing Deja from her job as Shauna's caretaker.  If Shauna had woken her that night to say good-bye, would Deja have let her go? Would she not have gotten into the car with her? Maybe, maybe not, but was it worth the risk? 

You bring up a good point. Deja and her mother don't have a traditional strictly mother/daughter relationship. I would hope that Shauna would be able to put her foot down and tell Deja that she's made her decision as her mother that the safest place for her now is with Randall and family. Deja shouldn't have to decide that she's going to "let" Shauna go, but that might be how it would go down. Deja would want to take care of her mother, maybe even enough to live on the streets.

[3 is enough]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Shawna's issues are more than just needing a good/better job though. First thing she needs to do is cut ties with the loser boyfriend and right up to the end, she's not willing to do that. But cutting herself out of her daughter's life isn't the answer, either. I feel like Randall and Beth won't let that happen.

Bingo.  Sure lack of money is a big problem, but Shauna seems to be the kind of woman who needs a man in her life, and this is more important to her than her daughter. They showed her more concerned about her boyfriend than her newborn, she left a 3 year old alone to be with the boyfriend at the time, and then she uses her money to bail out her loser boyfriend even though she was behind on the rent and in danger of being evicted.

[mansfolly]

Forgot to add this earlier, I was wondering if the producers are looking to spin off the Deja/Shawna story for its own show - considering the popularity of "This is Us". 

[ShadowFacts]

18 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

You bring up a good point. Deja and her mother don't have a traditional strictly mother/daughter relationship. I would hope that Shauna would be able to put her foot down and tell Deja that she's made her decision as her mother that the safest place for her now is with Randall and family. Deja shouldn't have to decide that she's going to "let" Shauna go, but that might be how it would go down. Deja would want to take care of her mother, maybe even enough to live on the streets.

Whether she says goodbye or not, or calls her the next day, it's problematic that she's leaving at all.  It's a bad decision.  She's essentially abandoning her daughter.  Explain that one to Linda.   She's not thinking things through, she's reacting emotionally.  This is where the rubber meets the road for me and Shauna, she's not capable of putting her daughter first. 

[gonzosgirrl]

57 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't know, but Raven's words about finding a safe bed and then keeping it seem to indicate that Deja will be staying with the Pearsons. 

I should have been clearer. I also think Deja will be staying with the Pearsons, I just don't think Randall and Beth would encourage/let Beth just cut ties and bounce.

I am not remembering at the moment - did we actually see her leave the house?

[kissedbyarose]

If this was an episode for a new show or a different show, I would’ve loved it. As it stands, I’m invested in the stories of characters that exist on the show that we still don’t know much about. 

[tennisgurl]

I have kind of conflicting feelings about this episode. 

On the one hand, I did like the backstory for Deja, and the actress really is just great. She is super expressive, and I really just want to buy her some ice cream and give her a hug. Or a high five, if thats more comfortable for her. I also liked seeing how her mom isn't really a bad person who doesn't deserve to be with her daughter, but she makes bad choices pretty consistently, and wont give up on her bad relationships with sketchy men. I guess I can get why she left Deja (who is now destined to join the Pearson clan. Their like the Borg, you will be assimilated!) even though I hope she doesn't leave forever. Its seems like things were fine for awhile, than escalated super quickly, and if Deha just hadn't cut herself, this all could have been avoided. And while the flashes to the rest of the family could be kind of random some times, I liked what they were saying, about how all people, no matter what the generation, background, or economic status is, go through the same major life events. I especially loved when everyone was reading Goodnight Moon, even a young Jack and his brother. There are some things that are universal to the human experience, both the good (spending time with loved ones, birth) and the bad (abuse, sickness, substance abuse) and I thought it ended up working really well. As much as I liked Dejas bed speech at the end, it was pretty unnecessary, I got the messenger, we didn't need the speech to wrap things up. 

On the other hand, I do think the show is going a bit too hard on the flashbacks to supporting characters, especially when it takes up the whole episode. We are almost to the end of the season, and we have so much backstory of the Pearson's we still dont have, I would like to do that before we get to the backstories of the new characters. I just wish that we had some time with the rest of the family, we have so much more to get through before the show ends. 

[TV Diva Queen]

3 hours ago, deaja said:

When he entered the room and closed the door, I was momentarily afraid Shauna would accuse him of inappropriate behavior with Deja.

but he didn't close the door.  it was cracked open, which makes me love Randall all the more.  He sat on the floor, and only got on the bed, when he felt it was time.  

[cardigirl]

I think I must be the only mom who didn't read Goodnight Moon to her kids.  We read lots of other books, every day and night, but that particular book never did it for me.  I'm not sure why.  However, the way it was used in this episode was great, and made me tear up.  

[3 is enough]

I never read Goodnight Moon to my kids either.  Lots of other books, just not that one.

[pianogirl73]

3 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

At one point Deja said something to the social worker like, "She only uses that stuff because she misses me." I'm assuming it has to be something other than alcohol because then Deja would have just said "drinks" instead of "uses that stuff." 

I think that 99% of Deja and her mother's problems could be solved with money which makes their story all the more heartbreaking. I'm sure they would still be far from a perfect family but so are the Pearsons and they are solidly middle class.

I really want an actual social worker to weigh in on whether Deja would be taken away in that situation. It seemed so mild to me compared to what else goes on in the world. I just can't quite see it here. Deja cuts her hand. Her mother is temporarily unavailable but eventually shows up at the hospital that night.. Ok, she does smell like alcohol but it's legal to drink. It's not like she was falling over or completely incapacitated. And who would know that they didn't have water?

I liked Deja's back story more than the firefighter who found Randall's back story but I agree that it was too much. If they had to do it, maybe make it more like 50% Deja and 50% main characters.

However, Raven won me over. I kind of wish she had been fostered by Randall's family.

I HATED the fact that Deja's mother did not say good bye to her. That was totally and completely wrong. Especially considering Deja is a 12 year old who handles much more than many kids her age. 

This exactly! 

I hated this episode. While I appreciate the different perspective on Shawna, it didn't feel like my show. And I felt like it was lazy to tie in the similar moments with the Pearsons. I was relieved when they finally got to present time and the story actually moved forward.

[BoogieBurns]

This Really is Us:

10 or so years ago, a girl named Raven came into my life by chance. Her grandma went to my church. She was a teen, a competitive dancer, and since I was a 22 year old dancer, I found myself becoming her mentor over our shared interest. She had been in and out of the foster system her whole life, her blind and ill grandma was the only reliable person in her life until I came into it. Raven's mother had left town to follow some man, and came back sporadically, bringing chaos every time. 

One day, I was driving with Raven in the car and she saw her old foster mom walking in my neighborhood. Her mom never allowed her to see old foster parents, but my gut told me to drop her off there and hang outside in my car while they caught up. She was so grateful when she got back in the car. I suppose this family was the "Beth and Randall" to my Raven. A month later, Raven was killed in a car crash at age 15. Her former foster parents found me at the funeral and we just sobbed together, we all wanted a bright future for her.

I decided I would be a foster mom the day I saw her light up when reconnecting with her previous foster parent. 

Let's just say, this episode hit too close. I hope the Raven in this show's universe is doing alright. 

[ZeroDiscipline]

17 hours ago, stonehaven said:

Yeah..I was underwhelmed...but I did like the part where Deja was trying to cook and the Manny was on in the background.

ooh I missed that, because it was sooooooo obvious Deja was going to cut her hand on that can of tomatoes, and I cannot deal with blood so I had turned my head and covered my eyes. Obvious show is obvious.

[BTBAM310]

Guess I'm in the minortity because I really enjoyed this episode - probably because it's all we're going to see of Deja's past.

I really enjoy the present day stuff on this show, but I get so tired of the flashback scenes.

[RHJunkie]

6 hours ago, Blakeston said:

My guess is that Deja was supposed to be 11 when she injured her hand. (Although obviously the actress looks older than that.)

IIRC we were told that Deja was twelve when she first entered Randall and Beth's home. And she'd already been through the drama with the abusive foster father, so the injury hadn't just happened.

If an eleven-year-old injures herself while left home alone, and she says her mother is at work but the mother isn't at work and can't be reached, and then the mother shows up drunk at the hospital, social services is likely to be called in.

When the mother showed up at the hospital, the social worker said she could smell alcohol on her breath. The mother protested that she'd only had one drink. Soon after that, the social worker was telling Deja that she needed to stay somewhere while her mother got clean.

I feel like, even after this episode, we know remarkably little about what Deja's actual personality is like. She likes Beyonce and The Manny, and she thinks Randall's jokes are corny, and we're told that she's smart. That's a start, I guess, and it's not like we know a whole lot about Tessa and Annie either. But she's not a terribly well-developed character, especially for one who had a whole episode devoted to her. She seems more like a symbol of a damaged child than anything else.

Child services showed up before Deja's mom so the alcohol thing wasn't a tip off. I'm guessing that not being able to get a hold of Deja's mom at work or via her personal cell phone was what triggered child services to be called in for possible neglect.

I agree that she's not a well developed character but I see it as a result of her life experiences. She's hardly known what it's like to be a kid, explore her imagination and develop a personality because she's only known a world where she had to be more adult than child. I also don't see her as a damaged child. I get the impression that despite her life experiences, she's not completely harden to the world. She may not be bubbly and trusting right away, but she's perceptive.

6 hours ago, topanga said:

Was the mom using drugs? I know she was in an out of rehab, but I thought that was for alcohol. She always worked, even picking up extra shifts at the grocery store. Sadly, many service jobs such as hers don’t actually pay a living wage. And it seemed like Deja did most of the cooking and cleaning at home. 

I like that Deja was shown as always being smart, instead of Randall and Beth magically discovering her intelligence. 

I enjoyed this episode, although I wish there was more than one more remaining episode to address some of this season’s issues.  Loved seeing Pam Grier. But her face seemed weird: is she on steroids for a medical condition or maybe had bad plastic surgery? (she certainly didn’t need it). I mean, I know she’s gained some weight, as women often do, but the texture of her face was irregular. 

 

Randall, Randall, Randall. The final scene between him and Deja was emotional and powerful, but I was distracted by the cringeworthiness of the blocking:

• In probably 99 times out of 100, a foster father shouldn't enter his teenage foster daughter's room alone.  Not when the two of them still don't know each other very well and haven't established months, if not years, of trust. I'm glad that Deja has never been sexually abused, but many foster children have been. So a tall man standing at Deja's door staring at her could have been a trigger for her, or it might have raised suspicions if Linda or Shawna saw this play out.  I know Randall was not about to abuse her, and I know that his look to Deja was only full of love and concern, but to the uninformed eye, it could have looked like a creepy stare at a teenage girl. 

• If a foster father does enter the room of his teenage foster daughter, and it's just the two of them, you don't close the door, and you certainly don't follow that up by sitting on her bed and hugging her. Again, I know Randall's actions were completely innocent, and I'm not trying to suggest anything sinister. I'm talking about perceptions and Deja's possible reactions. 

  Or maybe it's just me. I grew up in the '80s and '90s when people were finally starting to believe children's stories of sexually abuse. But what it also meant was that adults in authority who seemed 'too friendly' with a child were often accused of sexual abuse: teacher, coach, foster parents, and even biological parents. In many cases a disgusting abuser was correctly identified and punished. But there were also times that innocent interactions were misinterpreted. To this day, I don't even like hugging other people's children unless they’re family members or I'm close friends with the family and know the parents. Or if it happens when I'm doing volunteer work with children, I always look around for their parents and give them a smile and a wave, like, "Hi! I'm not being inappropriate with your child."

The scene that almost made me cry was watching Deja and Raven leave the home of the father who abused them. Their belongings were in plastic trash bags, and it reminded me of the comedian/actress Tiffany Haddish’s stories about growing up in foster care. One of the things she said was that being moved around with all of your stuff in trash bags, not a suitcase, made her feel like she was garbage. Breaks my heart every time I hear it.

Generally speaking, I agree with the cautionary approach, however, I didn't read the situation that way as I was under the assumption that their relationship had developed enough that it was clear that Deja felt comfortable and not threatened by Randall. And I say this because we did see a scene at the beginning of her stay in the home when she shrunk away when Randall had moved toward her and he quickly realized that she thought he was going to hit her. I think Randall was mindful of that moment and given the nature of his character, would have used that as a lesson to not be the one to initiate a situation that would make her feel physically uncomfortable.

[Duke2801]

I am warming up to Deja, so I did not mind this episode.  I do think, if they were going to do a Deja-centric episode though, they should have used all new material and not spent half the episode flashing back to things we've already seen.  

17 hours ago, chaifan said:

Leaving her daughter was the easiest thing she could do.  It was a total cop out. 

I don't understand why child services was called on Deja in the first place.  She was a teenager left alone at a normal dinner time.  Yes, she injured herself, but there was no sign of abuse or anything worse than just being a poor latchkey kid. 

Like Lady Calypso above I found myself totally bored with 90% of this episode and saw no point in devoting an entire episode to this backstory, especially when it was pretty obvious Shawna was just going to bail in the end again.

Pretty sure she was not a teenager when the accident occurred.  But I agree it seems a bit extreme to place her in foster care over that incident.

15 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

Well I liked seeing Deja's backstory but I was left a little puzzled. Did she start in the foster care system when the social worker removed her from her home when she cut her hand and there was no water, or had she had stints in the system before? How many foster homes has she had time to be in? Her foster care sister in the home with the father who was a drunk seemed to have been more of a veteran of the system.

In real life I imagine she wouldn't be able to immediately go back into Beth and Randall's home even if her mother wants to bail and all the parties agree that's what she wants. The wheels of the state child care system have to turn.

They seemed to be implying that the cut hand incident was her entry into foster care.  That she ended up staying in foster care because her mom got hooked on drugs (because she missed her?)

[StaceyNotStacie]

37 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

Child services showed up before Deja's mom so the alcohol thing wasn't a tip off. I'm guessing that not being able to get a hold of Deja's mom at work or via her personal cell phone was what triggered child services to be called in for possible neglect.

Wasn’t the water shut off in the apartment when she cut her hand?  No running water, along with not being able to contact her mother probably played a role in CPS being called. 

[UsernameFatigue]

7 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Well, this show has five main characters: Randall, Kate, Kevin, Jack and Rebecca, played by 11 different actors.  The main five all have significant others and Randall has two children.  Then there is Randall's bio father.  I'm up to 13 main characters without counting the different actors for different ages.  We just didn't need another main character.  It's almost put me over the edge of confusion.

I say "almost" because this show at its worst is still better than 90% of stuff on TV.

I lasted about 10 minutes, and lost interest. There are stories not yet told about the core family, so giving a whole episode to Deja just didn't interest me. I would like to know about Toby's family. I would like to know more about Manuel, who was not only Jack's best friend but is Rebecca's husband. As it was, during the short time I did watch with all the birth scenes my head was swimming trying to keep up with who was giving birth to which kid. 

This show may be better that 90% of what is on TV, but not good enough for me to give up an hour to a character I am not vested in. As it is, I enjoyed the time I saved by not watching, reading which is ahead of TV anyway in how I prefer to spend my time. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[AriAu]

I thought it was an interesting episode of television-well made, interesting viewpoint etc... but was surprised they did not move the "real" story forward. I was bummed that they did not focus on the characters that we are invested in, especially since the last episode was interesting but a little fluffy. It was a far different approach than many recent dramas like Mad Men or Breaking Bad that used the penultimate episode as the powerful/dramatic episode and the finale as wrapping things up a little more neatly.

HOWEVER, Dan Fogelman  posted on Twitter a few hours ago that he wanted to thank NBC for allowing them to not focus on their superstar cast and instead tell "the important story of a little girl's life". Now I feel bad about complaining.

[Kira53]

20 hours ago, deaja said:

I think living in an apartment with no water was the issue. But again, unless Deja specifically told them, why would they ask just because she cut her hand?

She easily could have innocently said that she couldn't wash her hand because there was no water and that she became frightened when she couldn't reach her mother.  She wouldn't have known what not to tell them to stay out of foster care.  She learned with time what to withhold.

[chitowngirl]

Deja’s Mom was leaving, but not gone at the end of the episode. Perhaps Deja will still get a goodbye?

[CelticBlackCat]

22 hours ago, mmecorday said:

This had the look and feel of a clip show but none of the highlights were especially great.

And you don't bring someone as magnificent as Pam Grier onto a show and then have her die fifteen minutes in. That's just bad form.

This started with Jami Gertz, who employed Kate for about 15 minutes.  I think we should call the hiring of actors and actresses who should be on the show longer than the cameo their performance turns into The Jami Gertz Syndrome.  Why hire a big name, well established actor and utilize them for a nanosecond?  (I'm assuming we may see more of Sylvester Stallone when the movie Kevin was in is released. so perhaps he's a recurring character.  Kind of like Gerald McRaney.)

[Kira53]

7 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Whether she says goodbye or not, or calls her the next day, it's problematic that she's leaving at all.  It's a bad decision.  She's essentially abandoning her daughter.  Explain that one to Linda.   She's not thinking things through, she's reacting emotionally.  This is where the rubber meets the road for me and Shauna, she's not capable of putting her daughter first. 

Shawna has poor judgment all of the time.  Whether it is a small thing like insisting on walking her daughter to school when that would make her late for work when she really needs the job or going off to work while three men are in the apartment.  Get those men to leave! You don't just blow off getting to work on time because you feel like it.  Her poor decision making and general poor judgment and poor choices are why I want her to leave Deja with the Pearson's.  I feel she needed to get out right away and not discuss it with Deja is her repeated thought, "what would I do without you?"  She might back out in the morning.  If they had an apartment in the Pearson's building that would solve the problem of Shawana's poor judgment.  It wouldn't stop her from putting her ned for a man over her daughter or essentially telling her daughter that she needs her daughter to take care of her.  Shauna doesn't need to give up parental rights just stop making her daughter suffer the consequence of her poor judgment.

[howiveaddict]

3 minutes ago, Kira53 said:

Shawna has poor judgment all of the time.  Whether it is a small thing like insisting on walking her daughter to school when that would make her late for work when she really needs the job or going off to work while three men are in the apartment.  Get those men to leave! You don't just blow off getting to work on time because you feel like it.  Her poor decision making and general poor judgment and poor choices are why I want her to leave Deja with the Pearson's.  I feel she needed to get out right away and not discuss it with Deja is her repeated thought, "what would I do without you?"  She might back out in the morning.  If they had an apartment in the Pearson's building that would solve the problem of Shawana's poor judgment.  It wouldn't stop her from putting her ned for a man over her daughter or essentially telling her daughter that she needs her daughter to take care of her.  Shauna doesn't need to give up parental rights just stop making her daughter suffer the consequence of her poor judgment.

Didn't Deja tell her mother that she was cooking her a birthday supper?  And then her mother goes out instead.  That was a selfish move on Shauna's part.   I think Social Services would be called anytime a child presents alone to an emergency room and they can't contact a custodial adult. After all, in Indiana, the hospital must have permission before treating a minor. I would think that would be so in many states. Since it was an emergency they went ahead and stitched her hand.  What if she had needed emergency surgery on the hand instead?  They would have had to contact the court to get permission.  

Then the mother goes to work while Deja is in the apartment with all the men still there.  Another bad decision.  Also, it looked like a one bedroom apartment.  Who was sleeping where.

That said, I figured Shauna would leave the Pearson's home after seeing how much happier her daughter seemed.  This was probably one of the few unselfish things she had ever done for her daughter.  This was the only time I liked Shauna this episode.

[possibilities]

I loved this episode, full stop.

They were conscientious about drawing parallels without getting anyone off the hook. I was worried they were going to make the Pearsons into smug little heroic angels and they didn't. They also had drinking and hitting and drama and bad choices. And I was afraid they would make Deja's childhood devoid of anything good, and they didn't do that either. I find Deja and her life and her problems to be at least as interesting and complex as what the other characters are dealing with, and the actress never wastes a millisecond of her screen time. I find her very engaging. I don't see her as a lesser character. We spent episodes on the obstetrician, and on the firefighter, and on William. I don't want to be dragged through Grieving For Jack, Part 798 week after week. I like it when they mix things up.

It wasn't perfect, but I'm glad they did it.

21 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

They asked why Deja was alone and she said her mom was at work. But then they couldn't reach her mom at work. I think social services would be called anytime there's an injured kid and they can't reach a parent. If it turned out her mom was really just working and everything was fine, they likely wouldn't have removed her from the home. But then her mom showed up drunk.

But her mom wasn't just working. She had told Deja she would be working late and then be home for dinner, but actually she went out for drinks, even knowing that Deja was home alone and making dinner for her.

I think it was a tough call, given how inadequate and under resourced the foster system is. Maybe they should have monitored the situation instead of immediately removing the child and putting her into even more chaos and uncertainty. That's the problem with an under-resourced bureaucracy, though. The social worker clearly cares and is trying to do what's good for Deja, but she probably has rules she has to follow, that sound good on paper, but are based on ideals and not reality. "Children who are inadequately supervised and get injured due to parental neglect and/or substance abuse shall be removed for their own safety" sounds smart on paper.

I like that the show is highlighting how messed up everything is, and really Deja had it good compared to a lot of other kids in the system. Even before Randall and Beth fostered her, she had at least had her great-grandma for a while, and her mother was irresponsible and immature but not as strung out or abusive or negligent as some parents are. But even so, it wasn't great. I like that they showed it could be worse, through Raven, even if they want This Is Us to basically be a feel good show and not a gritty misery drama. Not every situation is completely evil or completely good, and if they wanted to tell stories about the foster system (which I hope they will keep doing), they have some tough choices to make. I like that they tried to take a middle road, not pulling punches and trying to show as many sides of it as they could in such a compressed samount of airtime.

I wouldn't want them to go live in the apartment building unless Shauna could demonstrate a commitment to putting Deja first and not continuing to prioritize the boyfriend at Deja's expense. The man is dangerous, even if he (like Shauna himself) isn't all bad. I would like to see Shauna get her act together, and I think she did grow over the course of time, even if she's not all the way there yet. I would at least like to see her have an on-going relationship with Deja, even if they don't live together. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. There are open adoptions, and visits while in foster care, and it might be best for Deja to live with Beth and Randall right now-- not because they have more money but because they are stable adults who allow Deja to be a kid and who prioritize her needs. But even if everyone agrees Shauna is not dependable (giving the rent money away for boyfriend bail was the absolute last straw for me), I can see Deja wanting to be in touch with Shauna and still loving her even if she's not her primary caregiver and not fully competent as a guardian.

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, AriAu said:

 

HOWEVER, Dan Fogelman  posted on Twitter a few hours ago that he wanted to thank NBC for allowing them to not focus on their superstar cast and instead tell "the important story of a little girl's life". Now I feel bad about complaining.

Does NBC really read and approve every script of every show they air? Really? I would have thought that once a show is picked up, and especially if it is the hit that This Is Us is, that the show's producers would have the freedom to do whatever they want. But what do I know. 

I think Fogelman should remember that the show is a hit because of his "superstar cast" , and the fact that the show's audience is vested in them. To tell this "important story" near the end of the season seems like a vanity project to me, and I don't feel bad in the least that I feel that way. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[possibilities]

11 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Interview  with Susan Kelechi Watson on the situation with Deja and what was cut from the Magic Mike scene.

This is a great interview, especially on page two, where she gets more into the issues swirling around in the moment of Shauna leaving, and how it feels and what the implications are.

[Percysowner]

I think the other reason Child Services got called was because Deja was injured. Yes, she said she had cut herself opening a can, but how many abused women say they walked into a door? How many abused kids say they tripped and fell.Basically Deja came in alone, with a serious injury, her mother couldn't be contacted. She was being unsupervised when when was hurt. That's enough for a call to social services. Doctors are mandated reporters. If they suspect that there could be abuse, they HAVE to report. Once her mom turned up drunk, or possibly drunk and high, Child Services had to step in and assess the situation. Deja's mom was in bad enough shape that she needed to go into rehab to get off whatever she was using.  I didn't find calling in Child Services to be a reach at all.

[BoogieBurns]

19 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Does NBC really read and approve every script of every show they air? Really?

Short answer: yes

Long answer: I'm sure different networks have different processes. Cable networks and streaming platforms are known to have more of a hands-off approach regarding content. But the basic channels can't just trust the creative process. They rely on ad space, possibly even sponsors within an episode (I see you, 30 Rock/Blackish) and they also have to run the script past Standards and Practices. For NBC specifically, due to my nerdy obsession with DVD extras, the network is present at the table read for each episode. They see the script the same time the actors do, and they make their notes. Many changes are made after the table read and then actors rehearse with an approved script. 

Every show. I invite you to watch the table reads for The Good Place, The Office (series finale episode), or season 2 of 30 Rock on their DVDs to see just how many bodies are in the room and how different the episode ends up when it finally hits the screen.

[Percysowner]

27 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Does NBC really read and approve every script of every show they air? Really? I would have thought that once a show is picked up, and especially if it is the hit that This Is Us is, that the show's producers would have the freedom to do whatever they want. But what do I know. 

I think Fogelman should remember that the show is a hit because of his "superstar cast" , and the fact that the show's audience is vested in them. To tell this "important story" near the end of the season seems like a vanity project to me, and I don't feel bad in the least that I feel that way. 

They probably don't read every script, however, if you are going to do an episode that is wildly different from your usual format, it's probably a good idea to run it past the people who are paying you to make the show. Fogelman knew this would be a controversial story to tell because it didn't involve the main characters, so he did the smart thing and ran it by the suits.

Personally, I loved the episode. I thought it tied Deja into the fabric of the show. I'm glad they did this episode.

[ThisIsMe]

Worst. Episode. Ever.

I feel like the producers are trying to foist the Deja story line upon us whether we want it or not.  Sure, she's a great actress, but, hey, that doesn't mean her character works for this show.

I'm just not feeling it.

[maddie965]

I loved this so much. Cried my eyes out. Deja reminds me so much of my niece. Sweet and troubled and so deserving of love. I wish them both all the luck in the world. I really hope Deja is here to stay. She belongs with the Pearsons. She deserves to be treated like a kid, and to be able to grow on her own terms.

I adored how they used the time element in this episode. All the parallels with the miletones in the Pearson family, all the things they shared in common, all the things that were so different. And again, Kevin being the heart that connects everything. Kevin, the necklace, Jack, Deja, the broath, grandma, life and death, love and hope, absence and permanence, and the determination to go on and live life to the fullest, even if you miss someone, because, in the end, we're all together, and we're all the same. This is us.

EW said it better. http://ew.com/recap/this-is-us-season-2-episode-17/