S03.E11: Here I Go Again

[scarynikki12]

Quote

After the team returns from a mission, Zari finds herself trapped in a time loop that results in the Waverider blowing up over and over again.

 

[Miss Dee]

This was such a bloody sweet episode!

Waterloo: Napoleon Bonaparte accidentally goes to the 70s, I'm guessing. Man, I wish we'd seen that mission!

This really was like Groundhog Day emotion-wise, even if the mechanics were more like Star Trek TNG's Cause and Effect.

I liked Sara's conversation with Ava. I'm neutral on the ship itself, but Sara hasn't had normal in a long time and I thought they were kind of lovely together.

Mick is writing sci-fi romance. Poor guy is sexually frustrated; he hasn't gotten any since Aruba. His bemused looks as Ray rhymed off possible causes for Zari's predicament were hilarious. Not to mention their laundry banter. God I missed those two playing off each other.

Zari and Nate is the partnership I never knew I wanted. I really loved the fun montage.

"I thought it would be funny." Gideon explains the LoT writers' philosophy in a nutshell.

WALLY!!! RIP!!!!! YAAAASS!!!!!!!

[Sakura12]

Gideon is a bit of an evil genius, making Zari live out a simulation. I wish Gideon could become a real member. And she just wanted to stick fakeGary in the garbage. For a time loop ep it was okay. It’s still way over down on sci fi shows and mostly used to teach a lesson. That I do think Zari needed to learn. All she had to was ask nicely, the Legends all deal is helping people.

I knew Sara would be fine with Ray killing her if Mallus took over her. Constantine should’ve just told her. She’s died enough times she knows what’s up and would want her team to be prepared to stop her.

Nate is much more interesting with everyone else except Amaya. The fact that the put them together again does make it look like he's the grandfather. 

They probably could’ve used Wally last year when they were facing an evil speedster. I suppose he would be helpful with a demon. Wally's lucky he didn't get knocked out and kidnapped since that's Rip's usual recruitment tactic. 

If Ava’s the reason I’m not getting Pirate Captain Lance, that’s not going to make me like her.  And they really should've just let this be the Ava we met in the beginning then I wouldn't have such a problem with her.  Now she just looks like she got a personality transplant. 

[cambridgeguy]

Looks like Jax's replacement has just shown up. 

Seeing Zari airbend reminds me that she actually has powers.  It seems like she almost never uses them in the field.

[tennisgurl]

That turned out to be a bit of an emotional roller coaster, didn't it? It actually managed to hit quite a few of the Groundhog Day points of being caught in a time, in just an hour. We had the "what the heck is happening, am I crazy?" bit, followed by frustration, followed by "YOLO",followed by suicidal despair, followed by becoming a better person and helping people (including catching a falling person and learning a musical instrument) followed by a declaration of love that finally breaks the time loop. Platonic love this time, which honestly makes the whole thing even sweeter. I knew Zari would be fine, but I still got emotional when she gave her speech about how much she loves her team, and how she wants to save them. 

Really good episode for Zari, and her figuring out her place on the team. And while it was clearly a Zari episode, we had lots of great character moments between everyone, especially looking at everyone's relationships to each other. I love how much this show clearly likes its characters, and it gets how they would react to this weird situation, and how they allow them to be funny, as well as have serious moments. It also spends so much time on the gang just hanging out doing normal stuff, which is love. It makes the show seem more real and lived in. Lots of great character beats throughout. 

Mick uses a typewriters to write a sexy science fiction novel! 

Ray making tea for Sara in an attempt to keep her in a good mood, followed by him shoving tiny Zari out of the way when Sara was going to squish them. 

The gang has to become ABBA to stop Napoleon, who took Waterloo a bit too literally apparently. Oh, show...

Nate and Zari hanging out was a lot of fun. I especially liked them eating tons of whipped cream together. And when Nate got his foot stuck in a bear trap. "OH MY GOD!!!" I really do like Nate when he isn't just in a romance plot with Amaya. Although, I actually didn't hate them this week. Probably because Zari said exactly what I was thinking. Stop having sex during missions! Also loved when they both used their powers together to try to save Zari. 

Sara and Zari talking at the end was really sweet. They have a lot in common, so I can see how they could but heads, but also how they would connect with each other. 

I wonder how many times Rip has started a sentence with "My name is Rip Hunter, and I need you to help me save the universe." or something. At least he asked, and didn't just kidnap his recruit this time. 

Gideon is an evil genius. "I thought it would be funny".

The ending with Zari playing the violin was quite lovely. 

[Primal Slayer]

So who here is keeping count of how many times Sara has died? Anyone?

But it was a good episode! As if I didnt love Zari enough, this episode made me love her even more. This is the kind of character building episode that a certain Arrow needs in their life.

The twist I didn't see coming with Gideon but I enjoyed it so I am not pissed that the entire thing was "fake" 

If Sara doesn't have a problem helping Zari change the "future" then why can't Amaya just help Sara change her "future" when she goes back to the past?

Edited February 20, 2018 by Primal Slayer

[Sakura12]

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

So who here is keeping count of how many times Sara has died? Anyone?

That's probably why she was so calm. "I'm going to die again, okay what else do we need to do today?" 

[kdm07]

That was emotional but fun at the same time. Only on Legends do I get that kinda 2-for-1 special. Special mention to the cue cards gag which had me laughing for a solid minute.

Gideon is hilariously devious which matches up perfectly with the team. Last week she was all for setting up Sara and Agent Sharp and tonight she's all about getting through to Zari while having a bit of fun with Gary.

Mick as a budding romance/erotica novelist wasn't something I thought I'd want until tonight. I hope it becomes a best seller when all is said and done lol.

I'm still not fully on board with Nate & Amaya but I've accepted it for what it is now whereas with Sara & Ava, I'm beginning to see why it would work.

Ray is such a good guy. Also, a horrible liar.

 

59 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Seeing Zari airbend reminds me that she actually has powers.  It seems like she almost never uses them in the field.

As a huge Avatar fan, this description is perfect!

42 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

That turned out to be a bit of an emotional roller coaster, didn't it? It actually managed to hit quite a few of the Groundhog Day points of being caught in a time, in just an hour. We had the "what the heck is happening, am I crazy?" bit, followed by frustration, followed by "YOLO",followed by suicidal despair, followed by becoming a better person and helping people (including catching a falling person and learning a musical instrument) followed by a declaration of love that finally breaks the time loop. Platonic love this time, which honestly makes the whole thing even sweeter. I knew Zari would be fine, but I still got emotional when she gave her speech about how much she loves her team, and how she wants to save them.

There have been times when I wanted Sara to thump her because of her constant rule-bending especially at the beginning of tonight's episode but she won me over with that monologue. Now if she can just stop sneaking behind Sara's back, I'll be a happy camper.

Edited February 20, 2018 by kdm07

[benteen]

Loved this episode.  While I was disappointed that it turned out to be a simulation, that still didn't damper my enthusiasm for it.  One of the best in the shows run and a fun, emotional episode in what was essentially a bottle episode. 

Zari annoyed me in the beginning but I really liked her as the episode went on.  I laugh at Mick's "My beer's in there" as Zari locked herself in the room.

Whenever I think of a time loop, I always think about Star Trek The Next Generation Cause and Effect, which came before Groundhog Day.

[Lantern7]

It's the Groundhog Day episode. Except it's basically Gideon screwing with Zari for most of the episode. Since this is Legends of Tomorrow (not including the "DC's" part), it's funny, it's awesome, and we get to look inside the minds of our beloved group of dysfunctional heroes. Oh, and Rip recruits Wally for . . . reasons. How funny would it be if he's meditating in the same place as Goldbe Big Sir?

And, of course, the bulk of the team is coming off an unseen mission that is stupid and/or awesome. I'm thinking the writers were working out the background, and Caity Lotz asked them for the disco theme, because she figures that if things go south, she could star in a Dazzler movie. If you're not up on mutants of the Seventies, read this. Look at the covers. Look at Sara. Shit, she's wearing blue eyeshadow. I'm probably wrong, but there's a lot of overlap.

Amaya summons animals while doing naughty stuff with Nate. And she's supposed to be one of the more "put-together" Legends. Can't believe Mick is trying to write sci-fi. I can believe that he's do in slowly on a typewriter. Ditto that he'd leave traps to protect his secret. A bear trap? Of course. It's Mick.

Liked the scene where Zari and Ray spy on Sara. Didn't think Zari could fly with her totem. Of course, Sara is sweet on Ava. That's her power. She has chemistry with everybody, and she can make many, many hearts flutter. Also, she's probably broken hearts throughout time. Oh, and she had a one-night stand with a lady from another universe.

[UNOSEZ]

Well at least I know where Wally has been.. Tho I wonder if he'll show back up on the flash before he goes to LOT  full time.. 

[thuganomics85]

Say what you will about how out there and insane some of the storylines and writing on this show can be (I say this with love), but they really do know their characters, and it totally is line that when they hear "time loop", Nate goes to Groundhog Day, while Ray thinks of "Cause & Effect" from Star Trek: The Next Generation.

I always get a kick out of time loop episodes, and this was no exception.  I like all the variations each time it happened, the almost fourth-wall breaking "fun montage", and the nonstop hilarity (how they kept making me laugh each time Ray slipped is beyond me.)  But I did like how they addressed that it would likely do a number on the person stuck in it, and how much it clearly wore Zari down.  A really good episode for her and Tala Ashe was great here.  Hopefully she'll continue to get closer with the rest of the Legends and see them as the crazy family that they clearly are!

I so want Mick to accidentally leave his manuscript on one of the missions, it ends up getting published, and somehow fucks with time even more!

Totally not surprised that Sara ended up not being that upset with what Constantine told Ray to do if Mollus takes over, because like any true leader, she would totally sacrifice herself to save everyone else.  I hope it doesn't come to that!  Really doubt it will.

This was probably the most I liked Nate in quite some time.  But he and Amaya really need to drop the whole "getting it on during the mission" thing.  I expect Mick to not have self-control, but y'all are suppose to be adults!

Didn't see the real reason about time loop coming.  Good old Gideon!  And, again, I vote for them to eventually find a way to create a hologram or android for her to go into, so we can get more of Amy Louise Pemberton on screen!

And so begins introducing Wally West onto this show.  And guess who is back as well?  Yep, it's Rip!

Next week: I just was thinking that the only thing this show has been missing was a pirate themed episode.

Edited February 21, 2018 by thuganomics85

[ramble]

Mick writing a space romance caused me to swoon. 

[johntfs]

35 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I expect Mick to not have self-control, but y'all are suppose to be adults!

Mick actually has a lot more self-control than the rest of them.  He doesn't have sex with his teammates, mission or no mission.

[Maelstrom]

Echoing what everyone else has already said, this was a fantastic episode. Time loop episodes are a well worn trope but can make for some really strong character moments, and this one was no exception. With all of the other exits this season, and the whole Mallus arc, Zari’s gotten just a little lost in the shuffle in recent eps. I thought this this was a much needed showcase of how she’s getting on and just how she fits in with the team. Tala Ashe really did a wonderful job with both the comedy and the pathos, and she makes an excellent addition to the team.

Too many funny moments to count in this, but IMO there wasn’t a sour note to be found. Ray is adorable as always, and Nate is surprisingly likeable around Zari (or anyone but Amaya really). Loved the shared laundry day (they may travel through time, but they still need clean undies, lol). And adding to the chorus, I would love if they could find a way to have Amy Pemberton recur as human Gideon. She really brings such personality to the role. And of course Mick keeps an armed bear trap in his room, because why not. I will be rewatching this ep many times to come.

Yay, Rip’s back next week! I do love me some AD. Looking forward to seeing Wally, since I’ve only ever watched him during the two crossovers. Also, pirates! Woo hoo!

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Amaya summons animals while doing naughty stuff with Nate. And she's supposed to be one of the more "put-together" Legends.

Yeah, and I am pretty sure I heard the sound of Nate steeling up after the tiger roared. No wonder Zari was so disturbed...

[Miss Dee]

"Kill me now." And then the ship explodes. LOL

Whatever these writers are earning, it isn't enough.

[dingochick]

Such a great episode, welcome back, Legends! Most folks have already mentioned the things I found hilarious. And I loved Zari’s expressions with everything she was going through, she hit all the right notes.  

 

Wish I had an apparatus to get songs out of my head...smart thinking, Mick! ;) 

[twoods]

Only this show can make me laugh one second, then cry the next. I just love the chemistry and humor of this show. The actress that plays Zari is fantastic and works well with everyone. Loved her bonding with Nate.

Rip and Wally! Wondering how a speedster will help save them from Darkh.

[opus]

I kept waiting for it, but it never happened, so I had to go put on some ABBA....

 

?The history book on the shelf
Is always repeating itself?

[cambridgeguy]

5 hours ago, twoods said:

Wondering how a speedster will help save them from Darkh.

I know the real life reason for it but I'm wondering what the in-universe reason is for Rip tracking down Wally instead of going straight to Barry.  Barry's faster and more experienced, plus the Waverider isn't the Tardis so it should be easy to pick him up, have goofy adventures, and return him 5 seconds after they left.

[Starfish35]

This episode is going on my Favorites list.  I loved it.  Don't have time to write much now, but echoing what everyone else has said. :)

[MarkHB]

9 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

And, of course, the bulk of the team is coming off an unseen mission that is stupid and/or awesome. I'm thinking the writers were working out the background, and Caity Lotz asked them for the disco theme, because she figures that if things go south, she could star in a Dazzler movie. If you're not up on mutants of the Seventies, read this. Look at the covers. Look at Sara. Shit, she's wearing blue eyeshadow. I'm probably wrong, but there's a lot of overlap.

I don't know if that's what anyone on the show was thinking, but damn, that's a hell of a deep pull.  Kudos!

I loved that, even though Mick was doing laundry, apparently 2/3 of his dirty clothes were still layering the floor of his room, hiding the bear trap.

And when tiny Ray took off flying, I was thinking, "wait, Zari can't do that, he's leaving her stranded" before she did and I remembered she's anonym-Isis.

[KirkB]

I thought Sara looked an awful lot like Dazzler too. And I don't know if Caity can sing but there ways around that. Then I remembered Dazzler is from Marvel. But it doesn't mean DC (or at least the LoT people) couldn't have been making the shout out.

Time loop episodes can be a lot of fun. Cause and Effect from TNG is a good one but I am kind of partial to Stargate SG-1's Window of Opportunity. And Groundhog Day for someone like Nate makes perfect sense as shorthand. Too bad Zari messed it up the first time.

I loved the fact Mick had his whole room filled with traps just to keep people away from his typewriter. It also explains why he spends so little time with the team or on missions. It must take a while to set up all that stuff, and then undo it when it wants to go back in his room.

This is definitely a make or break episode for Zari. If you were on the fence about whether or not you liked her, an entire episode almost solely about her ought to push you one way or the other. It's made me like her enough, where I was kind of indifferent.

I liked Gideon keeping quiet about whether or not what happened was real. Though I'm presuming it was, considering Zari was able to play the violin at the end. Gideon does love her games.

And finally, so here's Wally. I'll be honest. I'm not sure the team needs another member, especially not a speedster, since his whole time will be spent getting knocked unconscious whenever he would otherwise end the problem too quickly. But at least Rip is coming along for the ride and I have missed AD.

Edited February 20, 2018 by KirkB

[ohjoy]

11 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

They probably could’ve used Wally last year when they were facing an evil speedster. I suppose he would be helpful with a demon.

Only if he's a speed demon.

 

Sorry, I'll see myself out.

[Sakura12]

LoT really knows to bring the silly then sucker punch you in the feels. For time loop episodes, my favorite is still Stargate SG-1's. 

I liked Zari but she was just kind of there, this one after she learned her lesson about team work made me like her more. Gideon is a sneaky one isn't she. She's was like no one has time for Zari to learn that lesson, lets throw her in a simulation so she learns it in one day. Gideon protects her Legends. 

[benteen]

I can't believe I didn't put the Sara/Dazzler thing together.  She really does look like she could play her.

[Jediknight]

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The gang has to become ABBA to stop Napoleon, who took Waterloo a bit too literally apparently. Oh, show...

Wonder if they'll have to show up when he gets his inspiration from a water park.  He would have won if he had more water slides.

That was a great episode.  We got plenty of comedy, touching moments, and growth for the characters.  And Zari is 100% right, the world would be a much better place if there were more people like Ray.

[Lady Calypso]

What a thrilling episode. Unfortunately, my power decided to cut out about 10 minutes in so I missed an entire portion of the episode, but it'll make the rewatch tonight that much more enjoyable.

I thought there was a right balance with the comedy aspect and the dramatic, heartfelt stuff. Seeing Zari go through the motions of the time loop, having her fun montage, and then getting overwhelmed and exhausted was very, very well done. I think that this was exactly the episode needed to expand on Zari as a character, as after her introduction episode, they kind of put her on the backburner. 

I actually really enjoyed Nate as the sidekick for a good chunk of the episode. I was surprised at how well he fit into being the confidant for Zari and completely bought into the idea each and every time. Nate's a character who they do treat superficially and I'd love to get some meaty material where it progresses him as a character, rather than just a love interest. I'm still bored of anything Nate and Amaya, so their stuff didn't quite work for me. 

Oh, Mick being a sci-fi/fantasy writer? Hilarious, and I never expected that from him. But since his personal interests beyond fire haven't been well established, I'll buy it. 

I gotta admit I'm still not fond of Ava/Sara and I finally figured out why I'm so hesitant on accepting them as a couple: when Sara went into the time jump ship to talk to Ava, at first, I thought she was communicating with Nyssa. Yep, I guess I figured out who I want Sara to really be with. And it's a shame, because they softened up Ava and I think she's ok now. I just really, really liked Sara and Nyssa together. Back to Sara/Ava, their scene in the ship was nice enough. 

It was nice to see the return of human Gideon. What a perfect way to bring her back onto the show in a believable scenario. I kind of like how she simulated all of this for Zari. She really does know her Legends well.

And of course Sara was fine with Ray possibly having to kill her. It's Sara; she'd never be upset about dying if it meant saving lives. 

[Sakura12]

For Sara dying is more of an inconvenience then a threat. 

[Lady Calypso]

Also, I will say that it's hilarious how Rip is the one to find Wally. I fully didn't expect an Arthur Darvill cameo. It's nice to actually be surprised by shows once in a while. 

[Sakura12]

I saw that Tala Ashe was actually playing the violin at the end. I love that this show lets the actors use their real life talents as part of the episodes. 

[Lugal]

Another vote here for how awesome the episode was.  I also love time-loop episodes.  Tala Ashe really sold it from the comedy to the pathos, and she's probably one of my favorite characters on the show.  For me the highlights were her reaction to Nate and Amaya alone together and the que-card bit.  Also Tala seemed to have an aversion to being sprayed in the face with gunk, so of course they did it to her twice in the ep.

It was also good to see Rip again, and of course, Human Gideon, and I can always have more Amy Louise Pemberton.

13 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

And, of course, the bulk of the team is coming off an unseen mission that is stupid and/or awesome. I'm thinking the writers were working out the background, and Caity Lotz asked them for the disco theme, because she figures that if things go south, she could star in a Dazzler movie. If you're not up on mutants of the Seventies, read this. Look at the covers. Look at Sara. Shit, she's wearing blue eyeshadow. I'm probably wrong, but there's a lot of overlap.

I remember the writers on Warehouse 13 once said they love opening the episodes just after a completed mission because it could be anything, and the LoT writers took that, with Napoleon in the 1970s, and the Legends had to form a band to stop him.  And I could totally buy Caity Lotz as Dazzler, especially now that Marvel has the rights to the X-men back.

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I so want Mick to accidentally leave his manuscript on one of the missions, it ends up getting published, and somehow fucks with time even more!

If it saves us from 50 Shades of Grey, I'm all for it, and would fully accept any changes to the timeline.

[Princess Lucky]

Such a fantastic episode!

This is truly my favorite show at the moment. This season has been hitting out of the park, as did Season 2, frankly, and every week I'm pleasantly surprised by how fun and emotional and enjoyable each episode is.

16 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Say what you will about how out there and insane some of the storylines and writing on this show can be (I say this with love), but they really do know their characters, and it totally is line that when they hear "time loop", Nate goes to Groundhog Day, while Ray thinks of "Cause & Effect" from Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Absolutely agreed. And this type of episode is the best way to showcase that; the fact the characters are distinctive and unique and three-dimensional. We as viewers know what to expect of them, because we know them, and the writers know what to write for them, and that's how you end up with an episode like this. With a mix-and-match of characters, with unusual scene partners (like Zari/Nate or Zari/Gideon) which works exactly like you imagined. Everyone is in character, and they all react appropriately to what's going on (indeed, the Groundhog Day/Cause & Effect distinction was key!) and the episode works on all levels. Well done.

Tala Ashe was fantastic. She really made me emotional with her speech, but she also made me crack up with her facial expressions throughout the episode (she and Nick Zano reacting to the bear trap was Peak Legends, by the way). I liked Zari from the start, but she really did need to learn this lesson, and she needed to realize that these people are her family now, and I'm glad the show chose a time loop episode to make that happen.

I like Nate. I have accepted that now. Nick Zano is so darn likeable and Nate has great chemistry with all the other characters (the sweet yet dorky way in which he kept agreeing to help "Z" was so perfectly in character for him). The more the show embraces how funny he is (to the point of being the comic relief, almost), the better. As for Nate/Amaya, I have to say, I think they're the perfect tv pairing. I like them together, I think they're cute if unremarkable, but when they're apart I don't miss their relationship, since they both have meaningful connections with other characters, and their drama is kept to a relative minimum, so I don't have to sit through annoying scenes of them moping (*cough*RayandKendra*cough*). I can just enjoy Amaya and Nate individually, and when they make out I can go "awww, cute!" for three seconds and then forget it ever happened. I'm just glad Zari called them out for having sex during missions. Somebody had to say it.

Mick is the BEST. When he started reading his novel out loud I lost it. And I loved his little moment with Ray and the laundry. I always want to see more of those two.

I love Ray. And I love this show for continuing the tradition of instantly revealing "secrets" which, on lesser shows, would be season-long arcs. Of course Sarah would be fine with dying, and of course Ray would be weary about telling her, but I'm glad the show didn't drag that out at all.

Gideon is a delight, as always. I'm just sad Rip was in the same episode but he didn't get to see his girl.

I love Ava. I love how she's different when she's talking to Sara, and I love how Sara is different, and more nervous, and more mellow, when she's with Ava. I ship it 100% and I don't care who knows it.

Gary is also the best, by the way.

And Wally! I can't wait to see more of him.

Overall, a standout episode in a standout season. I love this show.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Princess Lucky

[PhoneCop]

[Zari and Nate inhale cans of whipped cream]

Me: Meh.

[Zari and Nate do silly dress-up]

Me: Meh.

[Zari riffs on "Subterranean Homesick Blues"]

Me: [loses it completely]

 

[ketose]

51 minutes ago, PhoneCop said:

[Zari and Nate inhale cans of whipped cream]

Me: Meh.

[Zari and Nate do silly dress-up]

Me: Meh.

[Zari riffs on "Subterranean Homesick Blues"]

Me: [loses it completely]

 

Teenage me: You mean INXS didn't invent that?

The explosion was a lot like "Cause and Effect." Some of the YOLO stuff was like "Window of Opportunity." The suicidal stuff was "Groudhog Day." Although, I think the original story of this kind might be "12:01."

Human-form Gideon would actually be good for the show. They're already paying AP, an android doesn't have much CGI required and they can have her break down long enough to stretch out the season.

[Proteus]

This episode completely made me fall in love with Zari & Tala Ashe. She was awesome.

Theres too much I loved about this episode to mention. One of my favorite of the series.

[Cthulhudrew]

.I'm torn on this episode. On the one hand, I like where it ended up, I enjoyed several of the character interactions, and it was cool seeing "the real" Gideon again. I love Groundhog Day and the concept of time loops, and think time loops are an idea that certainly fit well with the show and could lead to great storytelling.

On the other hand, this just felt like really, really lazy writing. It's like the writer(s?) just watched Groundhog Day and took the entire script and changed a few names. "Zari is stuck and keeps reliving the same day/hour." "Zari can't get anyone to believe her." "Zari tries to figure out the problem and antics ensue." "Zari gives up and decides to just treat every day like its her last, including teaching herself how to play an instrument." "Zari only succeeds when she finally gives up and discovers she's come to open her heart to love." The end.

They didn't even try to flip the script or do anything new and interesting with it. (Except, perhaps, the several minute long dialogue with Basil Exposition- I mean Gideon- that is only tolerable because of Amy Pemberton). Only the last 5 to 8 minutes were anything really worthwhile. The cast did a great job, and I like where it took Zari- but it just felt lazy. I'd have much rather seen Zari get to this point with the rest of the crew through the course of the season instead of one hour, or- barring that- had them do something different and exciting with the concept to get us to the same place.

[Cthulhudrew]

15 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

I know the real life reason for it but I'm wondering what the in-universe reason is for Rip tracking down Wally instead of going straight to Barry.  Barry's faster and more experienced, plus the Waverider isn't the Tardis so it should be easy to pick him up, have goofy adventures, and return him 5 seconds after they left.

If you were Rip, would you really want Barry "I've screwed up the timeline more than the Legends" Allen to join your team?

Stick with the speedster that hasn't figured out how to time travel yet. It's much safer.

For everyone.

ETA: Now I'm envisioning a scene in next week's episode:

Wally: "No offense, but shouldn't you be going to Barry with this?"

Rip: "Do the words 'Flash' and 'Point' mean anything to you?

Wally: "Point taken."

Edited February 21, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[scarynikki12]

39 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

If you were Rip, would you really want Barry "I've screwed up the timeline more than the Legends" Allen to join your team?

Stick with the speedster that hasn't figured out how to time travel yet. It's much safer.

For everyone.

ETA: Now I'm envisioning a scene in next week's episode:

Wally: "No offense, but shouldn't you be going to Barry with this?"

Rip: "Do the words 'Flash' and 'Point' mean anything to you?

Wally: "Point taken."

See, now I'm going to be mad when this scene doesn't happen.

[VCRTracking]

Such a fun episode. Loved Zari and Nate's teamup. Their reaction to his getting caught in Mick's beartrap was hilarious. Loved her going through Bill Murray's arc in Hedgeho- I mean Groundhog Day! Sara and Ava are getting more cute. Zari wearing the Hawkgirl mask and holding the cue cards a la Bob Dylan in the back of Ray and Mick's laundry conversation had me LOLing . Almost teared up at moment when she was willing to sacrifice herself and her final words to each of them and the team trying to save her. Great seeing Human Gideon again.

I'm not an expert but it looked like Tala Ashe was really playing the violin.

I wish the show had paid for the rights to use "Waterloo".

Edited February 21, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Wishing Well]

So um, the erotica.

Buck is in love with his alien queen, despite his planet blowing up, he feels he has found home.

Who is an alien, and has had her planet blown up but found home on Earth?

Skirtwave RISE. 

[VCRTracking]

Tala confirmed she was playing the violin for reals!

[Sakura12]

We discussed that earlier. It is great that we see the actors real life talents, like Victor's singing and of course Caity's stunt fighting skills. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

I was hesitant when I saw the costumes, but ended up enjoying it. It made Zari and Nate more likable. I also liked that the episode took place on the ship and was a true ensemble. 

If I never see Ray in that awful white costume again, I will be eternally ecstatic. It wasn’t a good look for him (although I did love Mick’s costume). 

[VCRTracking]

2 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

I was hesitant when I saw the costumes, but ended up enjoying it. It made Zari and Nate more likable. I also liked that the episode took place on the ship and was a true ensemble. 

If I never see Ray in that awful white costume again, I will be eternally ecstatic. It wasn’t a good look for him (although I did love Mick’s costume). 

All those costumes needed was the right music...

[Aeryn13]

Lovely episode. I usually enjoy time loop scenarios and this was no exception. It was both funny and really emotional, too. 

I`ve liked the Zari character since she joined the team but this was probably her first real centric episode and I felt both the character and the actress came off really well. When she broke down crying because she never could save any one of them, no matter how hard she tried, I really wanted to give her a hug. Glad that she bonded with the crew and especially worked out her issues with Sara.

Nate worked really well in this scenario, too. Not too happy about the Amaya thing but as long as they tone down the dude-bro-ness, I can deal.

The scene with Sara and Ava showed some human connection but for me the 180 with Ava just came out of nowhere. She was dismissive and uptight all the time until the Beebo episode where she suddenly let her hair down and it was like a switch flipped with the character. Now they are going full-on couple writing and I do not believe that developed organically. With Sara being my favourite character, it makes me unhappy that the one ship they are really pushing in canon is the one I`m really not too fond of. I`ve liked the character with Snart, Nyssa, Alex Danvers, Constantine so this is some bad draw of luck right now. 

Oh well, otherwise the episode was really really good. 

The tag with Rip and Wally was a bit apropos. Was that a man-bun on Wally? Yeesh. 

[KirkB]

Nate using Groundhog Day as shorthand fits the character, and would probably have worked with Ray too, though he also would have likely gone into more of a geek spiral about it so it makes sense for Zari to go to Nate first. I also liked the fact that once Zari actually explained to Sara what was going on Sara just accepted it pretty much at face value, because let's face it, at the end of the day that is not the strangest thing that could happen to one of them.

Edited February 21, 2018 by KirkB

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now they are going full-on couple writing and I do not believe that developed organically.

Maybe we're supposed to recognize that it didn't develop organically.  What if Gorilla Grodd telepathically "monkeyed around" (no, I couldn't resist it) with Ava's mind and pushed her to develop feeling for Sara, feelings to which Grodd knew Sara would respond because Grodd was literally inside Sara's mind?  What if the Ava relationship was a setup to act as the trigger to push Sara far enough out on the edge to open the way for Mallus to take full control?

Edited February 21, 2018 by johntfs

[Proteus]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Maybe we're supposed to recognize that it didn't develop organically.  What if Gorilla Grodd telepathically "monkeyed around" (no, I couldn't resist it) with Ava's mind and pushed her to develop feeling for Sara, feelings to which Grodd knew Sara would respond because Grodd was literally inside Sara's mind?  What if the Ava relationship was a setup to act as the trigger to push Sara far enough out on the edge to open the way for Mallus to take full control?

I don't see anything like that happening. I know some here don't like Ava/Sara, but I have no problem with how they've developed & don't see them as forced or rushed.